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00:00even though they should be treated the same way that in itself starts to spark and I know we had
00:09some behind the scenes I wish I wish you guys and ladies could have seen it but um nevertheless
00:15that's what we're here to do to have that conversation where do we start where do we
00:20start with double standards well I think honestly the the starting point that a lot of people look
00:27at for double standards is like sexual prowess so a man who have 10 women you're seen as a general
00:34you're seen as demand stud yeah whereas a woman who may have 10 men um otherwise you know you're
00:43it is more seen as demeaning and you're seen as less than so I think that that is one of the
00:48double standards that we usually comes up when the conversation that usually comes up when we talk
00:53about double standards but this is 10 women sorry this is 10 men on the trot as in during a specific
01:00time not necessarily or 10 men in terms of her span so far in terms of I think what they're saying now
01:04is called the body count yeah yeah I don't think I don't think it even has to be at the same time
01:10but just in general now like if a woman is supposed to have or if a woman has had 10 partners over
01:16any period of time you know sometimes it's seen as oh god you know you have been around the block
01:20she's for the streets that kind of thing double standard yeah but but but uh on the on the other
01:27side you know if a man has had 10 sexual partners it's yeah different than a blind man experience well
01:33well in terms in terms of that yeah and you know I know people would would view it like that right but
01:40it brings another thought in my mind that men naturally are polyamorous by nature okay no no
01:51how many how much spoons that we carry carry millions of spoons 150 million if I once once
01:57your spoon count as well right so if you do by average what is the world's population how much is six
02:02seven six seven billion okay so so if if each man is carrying 150 million sperm it roughly may take
02:12about how many how many how many men to to impregnate all the women in the world probably about 10 15
02:19i don't know probably the mathematicians so so so so when when you look at that and and this is a
02:30conversation that the wider public is not really ready to have and it's and and men being polyamorous
02:41by nature is not to say that you know we're free to do what we want to take advantage of women and
02:47you know i'm a dad i want to hurt this woman and having sexual intercourse with that woman and that
02:52woman but naturally we are and and when you when you look at history uh kings the it was it was a
03:00norm it was a standard to have more than one wife and it was not just about fulfilling a sexual desire
03:06and a fantasy it was a matter of you know economics and also uh sexual transmutation because sexual energy
03:15is creative energy so we want to i mean i said that is not you know we're talking about double
03:19standards but but when when you when you think in terms of a man you know having you know different
03:27partners i think i think for us men today we don't understand the power that has been given to us and
03:35we waste our life source right all right so it is it is not it is not it is not wrong but it's just
03:43we we we we misuse it because we don't understand it so yes i i do agree that that women i mean they
03:49say every month one egg is released so so you can only be in you can only carry you know um you know
03:57one or two or three children at a time i think we're going i think we're going on a real biology
04:02because because ken you you're talking about all men and there are some men probably listening to
04:08this now going but i'm not i'm not polyamorous let me let me let me in your house what's the reason
04:13let me jump in here right i'm going with the definition you had first right which which groups
04:21are treated differently and a definition that i saw was an unfair principle of values applied to
04:29different groups of people so we're going to the common theme of unfair then if i come in with ken
04:35what he was indicating there about biology right is it that we treat people unfair based on biology
04:43right i put in that question on first which of course would carry us into troubled waters because
04:50all men are not created equally all women are not created equally and i i actually had fun
04:58researching this topic because it helped me become more truthful with myself and i'll tie it in because
05:06in one of my research pieces the question was was held is it a double standard or is it hypocrisy
05:13and i love that because because when me thinking about it i have different standards for different
05:20people whether you're male female etc and for me to expect anyone to hold my standards is hypocrisy
05:28to expect um even for me to be treated by my own standards because if you have your standards i cannot
05:34expect my standards from any one of you so for me first i had i had to establish what is my standard
05:43and then realize how i treat people based on my standard and then understand that people coming
05:48from somewhere different but but in in saying that your standard is where what we're talking about
05:55here today not not specifically your standard but if i take a particular role now i don't want to stray
06:01from the the part of sexual prowess because that's a big one right right but and but i just want to say
06:06with regards to a standard if i tell myself i'm with my partner and i want my partner to be fit
06:13and looking good but right now as it stands unfortunately i know that's not that but
06:19you understand a person a six-pack not the six-pack i want but he's six you know and i'll probably
06:23eventually get there just say everybody calm down i'll eventually get back there but for now so how is
06:29it it's hypocrisy and double standard to me are one and the same because my standard is hypocritical
06:36and i want something from someone else that i'm not that i'm not delivering i'm not up to mark
06:43worry about so well this is why we have to have a conversation once once your once your partner is
06:48comfortable with it i don't see anything wrong with it right if they're comfortable if they're
06:53comfortable they might just say listen i love him you know prior to prior to my son you know he was
06:58he was a little topper topper you know but no you know he let himself go literally you know and that
07:03also includes the pants has to be let loose a little bit more um so but i i am saying to you that
07:10in in and and we're just using that as an example to get to get started in terms of what i may want
07:15because remember we spoke about um you know the difference between um discrimination and preference
07:23right right and you know johansi just to bring in again this was somebody behind the scenes
07:27conversations that we were having where a woman may want something like they miss a woman might
07:32say you know i don't know short man i want a tall man right right and a man might turn around now and
07:39say well i don't want an overweight woman right so a woman says she don't want no short man preference
07:45a man says he does he wants an he don't want an overweight woman discrimination you know he don't
07:54he don't he don't want a big girl or a fat girl but that's that that's then you're afraid to use the
07:58word fat but let me tell you something but that is a preference too so how can you say how can you say
08:03that's discrimination i don't agree with that but that's what we talk about double standard in terms of
08:08the double standards the double standards are broad topic as we said right right it's the outlook
08:13because it because it because because because because it has to do with gender so because it's a
08:18woman and she so the short men can feel discriminated too this is what we say yes a double standard so so
08:26maybe we should we should ask the question who sets these double standards because when when you're
08:31saying somebody crying discrimination are going somebody or the they you know we say the proverbial they
08:36somebody or somebody's crying discrimination so where now is the the source or the where does this
08:42double standard come from i would say this my my guess the double standard comes from whoever has the
08:47loudest voice okay that's that's where that's for me where where would you all say the double standard
08:53comes from and do you think that of course women will always be favored in discussions like this because
09:01they're viewed as the the the weaker vessel not necessarily the weaker sex because women are
09:07strong um naturally because i don't think any one of us here could understand what it takes to give
09:16birth of course i was just about to say as far as i'm concerned females are you know they're strong
09:22they're strong they're strong if we look i know well they're men probably going no no no no i think
09:28i think their tolerance for pain a little bit higher threshold is high and and some would disagree with
09:34us but you know not everybody's the same not everybody's the same but you you would find that
09:41as we go along and as we move along and as the world progress depending on how you look at it
09:46you're finding that that more of these discussions and and and the the outcome is being favored towards
09:54women because because for many years they've been sidelined they've been put in the back burner and it
10:03doesn't make it right and you cannot tell me as the as you mentioned robert that a woman's
10:10preference for a taller man and my preference to have a slender or not an overweight woman as you
10:18would say is is no discrimination right but who is saying that and this is but but it doesn't matter
10:25who's saying it because whoever it's coming from that person is coming from a perspective or viewpoint
10:32or position of a double standard which is hypocrisy right and that's what we're talking about okay that
10:37that is the conversation it doesn't have to be a group so say for example you know when you talk
10:42about being you know being polyamorous right you know and and that you know in in terms of in the
10:47same conversation we talk about double standards and the understanding of double standards in this
10:52context in this conversation is all about hypocrisy that that that um and you know when you're talking
10:58and you're talking but you really forgot why you brought up a point in the first place and that's
11:02what's happening to me right now the fact that you know i had a point that i was trying to jump
11:06and i'll get to well i want to have a question so why not why not group exactly so let's talk
11:11about the whole polyamorous right yeah do you abide by it you know um is it something that that and
11:18how do well if if you ask me personally if if if i'm up if i'm practicing it right now no i'm not
11:25but but based on my research and and history will record that the uh kings who have lived before
11:35and it was that it was a norm um polygamy was was something normal it wasn't something to be frowned
11:41upon so so once we understand our history it gives a clearer understanding of who we are and how to
11:49chart it the way forward now as i mentioned before being in a polygamous relationship is is more than
11:57just having fun sexually and having sexual partners is much more than that as a man if you cannot
12:05satisfy and take care of these women that you're with whether two or three or how many of them and not
12:12just sexually emotionally financially spiritually you have no business you're wasting time but are
12:19you willing to accept are you willing to say on the other end for the woman to be polyamorous
12:25well that that's that's not that's not her nature but but how how are we determining what's in
12:30there right you're going by biology saying that about 150 well okay well all right right a woman
12:35decides this okay i want i would i would say this to to be all to to be fair i wouldn't have a problem
12:42with it i wouldn't have a problem with it but of course a woman may feel uncomfortable but if a woman
12:49chooses to then that's her choice you know why would she feel uncomfortable what's the difference in
12:53terms of the setup to see you know we we we have these conversations and they're women and they're
12:58women like that but we have people that say listen you know a man cheats because he's he's just out
13:02there you know whether it's to get a body count or to ego and all these other things there are
13:06different reasons why they say men cheat right right or go out there and explore and become polyamorous
13:11or polyamorous by nature but they say women it's different because if they go with somebody else it's
13:16it's an emotional attachment so it's a bit deeper there had to be something or some reason what but who are
13:21we really to say at this point that that there's in by nature that they simply also don't want to
13:28say hey you know they're looking for they're looking for the strongest man out there they're looking for
13:32looking for that so we have to we have to recognize robert and the rest of the panel is that as human
13:39beings we have been given choice we can choose right we are we are only the only creation that has that
13:46ability to choose right and who am i and and that's what happened in in our in our type of relationships
13:57that we're in we always feel a sense of of ownership we own you and you can't do this and you can't do
14:04that right and i want us to think differently so so if a woman decides that she wants to to have
14:14more than one partners that's a choice correct it's up to me right if i would accept right that you
14:21bring in you bring in you bring in harry you bring in joel you bring in the double standard and robert
14:26i have to accept that now why is it as a double standard because the double standard there is
14:32you're saying yes you have to accept it so for example like we no no i i have to choose so you have
14:39to choose so it's like it's like me if i'm saying i'm bringing back the body analogy i am not in a
14:44state of being fit at the moment right so but i must and i want someone who's fit the double standard
14:51there is that i must be okay with her also wanting somebody that's fit so if i'm expecting her to be
14:59in a fit state and she also wants in terms of by choice then it it's hypocritical so if you are
15:06saying that you're polyamorous right right yes of course everything is choice you know when a woman
15:12says no is no it's choice i am saying to you in your particular instance if you have admitted that
15:18you're polyamorous and the woman herself is has also decided to go out with that's what i'm saying
15:26so if if she decides to do that it's up to me whether or not i can live and accept that right right
15:32so i i will have to decide but that's a double standard asking me no no no that's a double
15:37standard but a woman now has to has to be comfortable with with my position and the relationship
15:44so so you wouldn't obviously you wouldn't be with someone who is uncomfortable with that type of
15:49arrangement which is our natural you know habitat or nature as it were so for me i i would want to be
15:57now comfortable am i comfortable am i mature enough to understand that you know what i i am i am
16:02sharing this woman do so though like so ken no no no like so what is good for the goose must be good
16:09for the gander no listen so are you asking me if i am willing to be in a relationship where i am
16:16sharing a woman with with robert joel and your hands but if if they were if they were with robert
16:23chances are they don't want to be with it i just i just i just i just i lose what exactly you're asking
16:33in terms of a double standard because you're saying what you're saying is that i was saying is if
16:39the woman wants to be with more than one man right and we talk about women in general here
16:45we're saying that the we start of the conversation with ken in his opening salvo started off saying
16:51that men are polyamorous right right and i'm saying to you that women what where is the where is the
16:58proof or the the biology and apart from the sperm count to see that women aren't the same way as well
17:05and therefore is it a double standard men are okay to say sleep with several women but if the woman
17:11does it now that's where we come up with the topics of a slut as opposed to a stud i want to interject
17:17here very quickly yes um polygamy or being in a polyamorous relationship is not just about sex
17:24i want this to be but it's part of it it's part of it right so it's not just about that alone so when
17:29you think about polygamy we always think about yeah you know having monosexual is much more than that
17:34okay so so let's let's establish that because you made reference to in the past with king solomon and
17:40king david and other people right but i'm saying too they had concubines yes so it was still about
17:46sex so history will record that that that the women and back there they wouldn't have two three four
17:52five men we don't know that we don't know that you don't watch netflix out the kings the kings were
18:00allowed that because they were kings so the standard was the standard standard was different right
18:07because uh a a man who had a different stature in society wasn't allowed that so again
18:13because it can't provide right but we just know we see him because he couldn't provide
18:18we don't approve for that yet a king because he's king was allowed certain things let's go with the
18:24concubines and a woman right other people who allowed different things because they had a different
18:28status so going with there's a difference of standard and a difference of status which which is what we're
18:34talking about which is it's double or or even different and i'm agreeing with you that the
18:40kings got that but that doesn't necessarily mean that men are polyamorous or that men should be
18:45polyamorous okay right because the standard is different just like and if i would say even in
18:50society a man you use men maybe it's a certain amount of money a certain amount of status in society
18:58are allowed like we're going with women certain things than if than a man who doesn't have because let's
19:03say a man is a movie star just using that example movie star music music etc if you hear you have
19:10five women you might think well dies whoever it is but then if another man does it somebody might
19:17say what wrong with he boy who he feel he is so again it's based on that there's a different standard
19:23for different men so i'm agreeing with you that it is a double standard and maybe it could be hypocrisy
19:29you know or it's the same thing just a different standard people want what they want i want to i
19:35want to say this quickly before you made a comment robert especially for for the ladies in particular who
19:40are viewing my statements is not to justify um you know infidelity or giving excuses to men because i don't
19:53believe it i believe in honesty so so if if if you are of of that belief be upfront don't deceive people
20:02that don't live i want i want that to be clear so if you believe in something express that to your
20:08significant other give them a choice and give them a choice as well and and there were folks who would
20:14say okay well generally not just men and i want to extend it probably not just men but but human beings
20:20by nature are polyamorous because we we don't eat the same foods every day we don't go the same places
20:26every day because we like choice we like variety right so of course you know to think that to to
20:32commit to one person uh or to be with one person for for the rest of your life may be somewhat of a of
20:40a bondage situation i'm just i'm just putting out ideas i agree for people to think yeah outside of what
20:47has been fed to us all all these years i want to move on from because this is this is a big topic
20:53and we could we could actually spend the entire conversation here for this particular manhood
20:58right talking about because it and again as we continue in the many conversations that we will
21:02have it will come up time and time again as we have different iterations different variations of
21:07the particular topic and of course stories right and i would say just to close off that particular
21:13um conversation and move on to you know things like sexual harassment equality other big topics like
21:18that um that i i was watching this podcast and the guy asked the woman well actually two or three women
21:26and he said if if the average guy goes into a club and is trying to get laid trying to get a date trying
21:35to get you know what netflix and chill all the other terms it's a lot do they he asked them do you agree
21:42that it's difficult or more difficult for man the average man than a woman and they all agreed yes
21:50so if it is more difficult for a man the average man not not you know a topper topper as they say
21:56or a movie star or any of these things therefore what they're achieving is then difficult and if it's
22:03difficult it must be respected because if it's easy it it won't be respected because everybody can do it
22:09so therefore if it's to be respected and this whole thing came about because women were saying if they
22:14went with a hundred um hundred men they would be called a slut if a man went with a hundred women
22:19he'd be called a stud so what he was trying to show and again this is not my opinion this is just me
22:24relaying a story right that the reason why men get that that that that um that kudos is purely because
22:34to achieve sleeping with a hundred women as an average man is a very difficult task as opposed to
22:40a woman doing it so i'm just i'm just leaving that as unless unless you all want to say something
22:46really one thing i wanted to say about what i believe is a double standard with clubs is women
22:51free before 11 because i find i pay rents but let me face it as a man if when you hear that yourself
22:58i'm not going to you know what what is it bungee said post office you know you know you're not
23:04not an only male so therefore if i know women are free i know women i and i know women gonna be there
23:09men will come vice i'm just joking but honestly that's one of the situations that we grew up with
23:14they're no normal ladies two for one special but you as a man you had a pay full price you had a
23:20key that could open many locks a master key right but if if you have a lock that could be opened by
23:26by any key i mean so that they provided no kind of safety or security there so i guess i guess that
23:33you know what you're saying there um there is a bit of merit to it i guess yeah but it all depends on
23:39how you look at it and funny enough let me let me share with you a story uh something that happened
23:44to me recently i had i had a boat cruise on the habermaster my boat ride wine and waves so i was doing a
23:49set hype soccer set neither black man and skinny fabulous this song we really saw and come up
23:55i i i left from the dj area right stand up on a cooler i'm gonna shoot off already because real
24:02vibes and i made i made a joke you know just in the heat of the moment just in moment i said listen
24:07i'm feeling so good i feel like i feel like i could sing and do my work in my jockey shorts
24:12where people laugh but as much as people laugh there were three women hold on
24:18they take it as a dog whistle and try to unbuckle my belt and zip down so i had to be pulling mic in one
24:24hand and pulling up and pulling up my pants eventually i came up came down from the cooler right and you
24:30know when i'll reach home afterwards it's back and out right because you know wait wait wait so i'm saying
24:35to myself i said but i didn't i didn't i didn't pull up a pass right i said what these women do
24:42somebody encourage it so i i said i said to her i said i said if it was any female dj like say let's
24:50say tamara williams or the dutchies or dj charlotte or whoever we ct and they made they did that or made a
24:57comment similar to that you wouldn't find three four men looking to grab out of underwear because
25:03he was getting licks correct correct correct exactly so so so there's double standards there's double
25:09standards right and and apart from that during carnival time right so i'm taking my body ever so
25:17often so enough pinch i would get exactly exactly exactly exactly right but you won't take a wine
25:24behind a woman is like hey i i don't feel oh gosh right so what am i supposed to do that yeah if i
25:31go to report that yeah right they're taking me they're not taking you on what you said what you're
25:38supposed to do right when you was experiencing that harassment right what you wanted to do what i
25:44wanted to do yeah we wanted to do i wanted to leave because i felt i felt violated i felt violated
25:50because they're doing your job too i didn't my job i didn't put it on my pants right so the double
25:59standard there and we and was brought up recently you know in one of the tapings of a woman's worth
26:04which is you know the other one that you know gml has we have the of course the men sharing and then
26:09we have a woman's perspective as well and a big part of that was talking about women when they go out
26:15and they dress a particular way you know a lot of women say we're dressing for ourselves but the
26:20design and fashion which is a whole other topic we're not trying to go into today but the the
26:25the guest at the time was speaking about when they wine and dance and so on a certain way and it's
26:31part of the culture they don't know man coming up behind them but yet still as you've experienced
26:36i'm sure a lot of us have experienced how easy it is and acceptable in that environment woman to come
26:42and tell her hey or rub your chest or or do do but when that happens what is do well again i i think
26:50i will tell you from my perspective right i i will just no no it doesn't what i would do you
26:55handsy is and i will tell you any moment because of course i recognize i'm a public figure i would
27:00recognize that okay well i don't want to you know what i do i just don't want to i don't want to offend
27:07anybody and and or come across snobbish in a way but also it kind of catches you off guard you're
27:13moving it because we thought even you thought of me telling somebody else that or reporting that is
27:19is is um it is it is it is not something that that we do you know i have had ladies grab my
27:26penis with old reservations and feeling me up what you did when it happened what you did i i said
27:32excuse me and i had to record no you didn't you didn't i'm like how'd he go i i know because a
27:41part of you is like what's going on here right obviously generally if you're having a wrong table
27:46like this it will stroke your ego yeah but it doesn't make it right it doesn't make it right
27:51it doesn't make it right what would you do you answer if you just know yes you're saying it will
27:55stroke ego if you did you're saying it'll stroke ego but it doesn't make it right right by by what's
28:01by whose standard it does it is not right because if it's stroking ego that means you're okay with it
28:06you know well even using that would means you're okay with it well it depends on on the individual's
28:12personal philosophy and principles that they live by yes so so for me i
28:17i i i would tell you at one point in time it probably would have like yeah boy
28:24right yeah boy i'm gonna feed my boy right but now it's like yo i value myself right you you can
28:32have access to me or access to my to my instrument of love and war like that right so so that means
28:41your stand your standard change yes yes so you're seeing how how volatile or even dynamic standards
28:48are and to even try to establish a standard real ticklish because as human beings we are dynamic
28:54creatures my standard when i'm 16 would wouldn't be the same thing at 25 etc it shouldn't be right
29:02it shouldn't be it shouldn't be right thank you for the correction therefore even january i could learn
29:06something and by by december i learn something else so understanding the dynamics of it is important
29:12and how you react that's why i keep asking how you react because even if if we go to sexual harassment
29:20in in some of the cases i've dealt with is based on attraction right because different types of
29:26women if a woman grab you who you're attracted to versus a woman who you're not attracted to you
29:32you would have a different response yeah correct just so even if we feel we said we're talking
29:36about sexual harassment we come into that we come into that in a bit but if we flip as you as you
29:43mentioned about flipped flipping the script if at the same time a woman comes and grab grab you rub
29:48your chest and you turn around hey hey darling and you you give a little a little copy yourself and
29:53you return the favor problems problems depends on where depends on where you see that depends because
30:00if you're going by law the law is one standard there's no there's no necessary interpretation
30:04if the law says you cannot touch someone i'll just give you an example you cannot touch someone without
30:09their permission in a private area let's let's say that's the law no matter if a man does it to a
30:14woman or woman does it to a man the law says that right what i'm realizing double standard i'm nothing
30:18to do with the lawyer the double standard have to do with what you think of course what is accepted
30:23by maybe that that culture or that room or that company or well as we certainly start or any
30:28organization as well because we could come down to equal you know another topic another subject
30:33that we're going to be discussing of course is equality and that that is all seen in certain cases
30:38as double standard you know men get paid more than women in certain instances and that that in itself
30:44is a is a whole conversation so it might be by law but double standards is you know what sometimes
30:49gets the law applied or gets the law um discussed or or or even brought to the table in the first place
31:00so but i i want to as we talk about sexual harassment which which that is let's take a case of in an
31:07organization as we brought it up a woman a man goes up to a woman and says wow gill i find you're looking
31:15real good in that dress now the woman is attracted to the man so therefore to her like thanks a
31:22compliment a compliment another guy goes up and says good morning wow you're looking really you're
31:28looking really good you know and i i don't know what his disposition is or or or his body language is
31:34but she not attracted him he could be in front of hr sexual harassment or in her mind this man you
31:40know disgust and being offensive you know so she mightn't report it but she may be feeling that way
31:47so it is again subject to interpretation is a double standard ultimately is a double standard based on
31:53you could receive it from one person because you're attracted but another person offensive it's offensive
32:01and the same thing i could be grabbed by somebody but whether i feel good about it or not doesn't
32:06change the fact that if you were to reciprocate what would be the consequences what would be the
32:12environment what what could be perceived so for example she could pass and give you a touch and
32:16the man might be on another corner so for her it's almost like a level of double standard but if you grab
32:21at that point or you pass back and you see the same woman and give her a touch and the fellas are
32:28wrong or her girls are wrong yeah you could be you could be in some problems serious problems so some
32:34and in this case some serious problems so i you know again i want to come back to double standard
32:41really comes down to hypocrisy and and and where and who and where and and and it's it's received or
32:50or felt by in particular but but but can it be be changed we talked we talked about um different
32:56scenarios in terms of the global standards and being uh being hypocritical by nature um one of the
33:02one of the points that i have to make sometimes in events usually in large events when you when you
33:07find that there are more women than men which is is more the case than than the other way around yeah
33:16you find the woman that's freely you're going to men by true man normal normal like a normal you
33:22know why though you ever you ever asked a woman why for the most part it's easier access
33:26one and they always tell you the male bathroom for the most part is cleaner yes yes yes i've heard
33:31that before i've heard that before but but again and if if we are now going in if we go into the ladies
33:37washroom you know we're like security we're doing here security again so it just goes back to my point
33:43is it because um women uh uh because of the the attacks against women uh the how they have been held back
33:51and so many things that they they were they were dealt with that conversations like these and
33:58generally things more favor women than men is is is that the case so and how can it be rectified well
34:05we had a conversation i just want to bring up with you because i i want to hear a point because we
34:09haven't really heard from joel and and you know i just seem to be the one rambling on um which which is
34:14you know as i do you know as they say is my day job right uh so you have we have gen z's that we're
34:21talking about and we also have you know i was watching a show and i was telling you all in on
34:26netflix the diplomat or something and i looked at the woman on that time not to be not not to give
34:32anything away or you know but to say that the spoiler the woman started to beat the guy because
34:39of something that he had shared or didn't share with her and the security looked on and said you
34:45know basically everybody was laughing and you know chuckling about it and the whole that that whole
34:51scene was comedic it was meant to be comedic as she proper beat this guy her husband
34:58if the roles were reversed and he did that to her what would be the automatic feel of that show
35:05it wouldn't it wouldn't be comedic in most of the shows that we see when women give guys a shiner
35:12or a slap or something it's always just blown off and it was discussed and they even made a joke of
35:17it in the other scene the next morning when he woke up and of course he had what you call the shiner
35:21the black eye you know and the guys you know just made everything was in jest but it's an acceptance
35:28it's an acceptance that it's okay but you know what it comes down to it's still domestic violence
35:34whether that woman touches you and you like it or you go back to touch her it's still not right
35:39it's wrong is wrong you know well let me say illegal first well illegal first between right or wrong so
35:45you see you're not talking a lot let me hear i agree with what he's saying and he asked about if the
35:52double standards could be changed and i was thinking about it and maybe it could be if enough of a group who
35:58who is being discriminated could be men in certain situations could be women decide to act different
36:03so that's why i was asking how you reacted to it because let's say if we had a consistent reaction
36:09from men to being grabbed in carnival because i mean stop the performance one time carnival i hear
36:16listen a lot of stories from men and men who generally uncomfortable and it's not that they like
36:22it it was very uncomfortable situation even in scenarios with um women going into the men's room because
36:28many men going through whatever they're going through insecurity whatever which they're they
36:32they have the entitlement to and then a woman walking right and not even say well gents are coming in and
36:37and discretion one time they're coming by the urinal
36:43right correct correct and and many men so it is based sometimes on the reaction to it and that's why
36:50i ask about it because once there was a a woman who pinched me on my bottom right and i remember
36:58feeling angry that was the first thing i was angry because of her attitude of entitlement to do it right
37:04and then i also felt violated and i remember i turn around and i grab her hand i said don't ever do that
37:09again i don't know how my face was looking but people are wrong obviously realize something occurred
37:15right and she didn't want it to it to be known what what happened she just can't say okay okay but i i
37:22thought about it that way if every man in in a scenario reacted and it necessary grab the person
37:28hand but let's say the seriousness of it if whatever you feel violated by you stick to that standard then
37:36there's a possibility things can change well i i admire optimistic approach but if i think it will take
37:43about two or three generations to to reverse the programming that has that that takes place or
37:52and is presently taking place where that is concerned as as robert mentioned that there are movies
38:00and and tv shows that depict that it's okay for women to do these things and and we laugh about it and
38:07we joke about it and not find it uh you know highly offensive so in an isolated case once you know
38:15once or twice and then by you grabbing and say never do that they might call your kind of names
38:20correct correct but what is the double because from your in your case you felt violated but if in ken's
38:30case he wasn't he did not feel violated it still doesn't change the fact nobody double standard because
38:35what i'm trying to say in your case in in both cases had you done the same thing the double standard
38:42there is what the repercussions for you would be different to her and that's what i'm saying violated
38:49or ego and i feel good like a woman do this or not if i if i you know i like i said reciprocated
38:57we we we we're in a problem and that's where the double standard comes in i was actually going
39:03and switch the conversation yes you know um so just uh you mentioned programming and something came
39:09came to my mind so like i was home with my little daughter our little four-year-old trail um and our
39:16brethren was calling to ask me to live so i said now we're uh home with home with hyco we're here
39:21and his response was like a babysitter now i was like of course no it's my child i'm babysitting
39:30and i think that so i just want to train that in terms of double standards that you know sometimes
39:35men are applauded and awarded and recognized for doing your fatherly role now whereas in terms of
39:43taking care of a child or or so on whereas a woman sometimes this is looked as you have to do that
39:50so like a father if if it is if it is a home if i say i duck i i working from home today because
39:57my daughter is sick or my son not have to go to school as opposed to so you're like oh you know
40:04you've been a good dad or whatever no i just doing what i have to do as a father whereas a woman doing
40:10that is like it's expected it's a normal yeah so double standard it's a double standard so like
40:16that kind of double standard yes though i just i just feel as though dread sometimes you're just doing
40:22what you're doing bare minimum and the prevailing thoughts and ideas about you know what what a man should
40:34be doing or what a woman should be doing and and our roles we have been fed that yeah and and we we
40:39have to we have to unlearn and really and and learn new things about how we're supposed to operate and
40:47again i think based on and i want to and i want to try to answer my own question can it be changed
40:54and as much as i'm very positive and optimistic i i think you as a man or woman you have to take that
41:03full responsibility to set to set a philosophy and standard for your life right but in terms of
41:10collectively i i think it's i believe it's far gone that that we could change a whole you know
41:17a pervading thought an idea that it will it will change overnight it will not i i don't think it will
41:23change overnight but what we have seen so we all grew up in a generation where you're working in a
41:30place and they owed the older men you said say rail out a time and think to women girl
41:35bam see looking good today and stuff like that right and we now reach a time where we understand
41:40that that is wrong we understand that you know you had a level of decorum and certain things you
41:45cannot see in the workplace and we have seen that change it took some time but we have lived in a
41:50generation where we saw that change so possibly it is i'm not saying that it will as you rightfully
41:55say it wouldn't happen overnight but as your auntie was saying if enough is done and and and listen
42:01we flip the script yeah the women are more aggressive than men and they're getting away
42:07with it and it's it's it's been accepted as the norm in society who who letting them get away with it
42:13well well the the powers that be i guess you know i'm not a conspiracy theorist but but i have to
42:19kind of mix and mingle that in in there because when you're finding that you're looking at movies
42:26and you're seeing that they're pushing a certain agenda and tv shows and books you'll question wait
42:30now is this a concentrated effort you know to to put put women in a particular way in and and and feed
42:38that type of narrative i just i just i just wonder you just observe it but we could um i just want to
42:44see you know this is a conversation as i said from the start that we could be going on and on and of
42:50course we'll have to be discussing this in length in several other conversations that we would have
42:55so um i think i think if we could just give our closing thoughts right to kind of wrap up um and of
43:02course we always look for the gem for the gem or the diamond from um johan say just you know what what
43:07what are some of your takeaways from the conversation here today well well my takeaways is that you know
43:12anything that you you focus on or pay attention to you you you tend to have a greater level of
43:19understanding and i think i think in order for us to um in order to address any situation firstly when
43:29it affects you personally or those around you you need to have some level of focus and attention to it
43:35to address it strategically and and recognize what is within your scope and within your reach that you
43:42can you can change and what cannot be changed and in light of all the discussions in the examples i have
43:50come to the conclusion that the double standards and the hypocrisy that we are seeing um it will not
43:58take one or even two generations and and quite frankly i don't know if it will ever change because there
44:03is no sign of it going back or or balancing off right i think as men and women we need to take
44:10responsibilities for our own lives we should have a philosophy that guides our life if we intend to
44:18make our life meaningful and to leave a legacy long after we have left this earth and i think you should
44:24have standards yourself and the standards that you set for yourself will and should determine how people
44:30treat you so if you are comfortable as a man a woman violating you pinching you and you feel that is
44:36a pips and you have not grown up and and and recognize that not everybody should have access to you
44:43well that's that's you you you you live your life how you want to live it but as of me i will live my
44:50life at a certain way because i am i have a goal and and and a standard and a direction that i'm heading
44:56into so that's my take on this whole double standard issue well received double standards exist and i
45:04suggest everyone both male and female to understand whether it is the country the culture the company
45:12that you exist in understand what is the double standard there and then compare it of course to
45:16your own standard so you'll be able to navigate this these dynamics in the most healthy way possible
45:23my take away is something that you want to settle a little earlier where you're saying that within
45:31yourself you know you have standards and and the standards change so something that you may agree
45:36with now or a standard that you might have set for yourself now could change in a few months
45:41dependent on new information that you get and stuff like that so as as we all realize that double
45:46standards do exist um there's a level of hypocrisy attached to it and just setting standards for
45:53yourself and knowing what as ken was saying knowing that what you're willing to accept for yourself
45:58and to ensure that you you stay with with what you're willing to accept yourself now you know set
46:03your high standards and and live by that the best way you can well received gents you know um my my
46:10takeaway would certainly be um a double standard is simply that's a double standard there's no male or
46:16female it's just a double standard and yes you as we discussed here today there's choice in that
46:22but the double standard comes as well as and you mentioned it joelle when you spoke about um
46:28the expectation so to a man it's babysitting or to your brethren it's considered babysitting but it's
46:33you're taking care of your child so with regards to if you want to if you want a certain type of food
46:39cook it yourself if you see dishes in your sink go and wash it there's nothing like what a woman
46:43supposed to do in certain and certain circumstances what a man supposed to do we're not talking about
46:48the whole you know provider versus you know the nurturer talk about the double standard of wanting
46:55something for yourself but not prepared and in certain cases i'm very guilty of that i might want
47:01the wifey to start something off whether it be fitness i i want to go to the gym but i'm looking for her
47:07to make the step to and you're looking for that support you know or looking for her to make the first
47:12step if it even if it means um doing something with my son you're looking for her to start that
47:18off and really and truly what it comes down to an introspection it's that double standard of expecting
47:24something from someone that you yourself are not willing to give and so that as as we mentioned
47:31there's a whole lot of conversation that happened here today some really really great conversations
47:35some great nuggets um it's something that you know we'll be continuing to talk about over and over
47:41again because one thing we didn't touch in in in in its entirety or even even really get time to
47:46ventilate is equality you know where women are saying they should be paid the same in sport or they
47:51should be participating in all sport there's all those things that are considered in certain cases
47:56double standards or in hypocrisy and there are reasons for that there's a generational thing gen z is
48:02from what i understand in terms of conversations where they don't look at body count the the the that
48:07generation z aren't interested in those things they are more about you know how get you know being
48:12able to be recognized and so there's double standards is a very broad topic that i think really encompasses
48:20um a lot and what we try to talk about here on manhood um and all i have to say the takeaway the most
48:28important takeaway is if it's not right it's not right so do unto others as you will have them do unto
48:36you and even in that case what you may want somebody to do to you might be what they want done to
48:41themselves so again it's is this all over the place when it comes to a double standard but no is no we
48:49come back to it um you know the right thing is the right thing and the wrong thing is the wrong whether
48:55you accept it or not whether you have it by choice that's good for you it's simply the
49:02the wrong thing in many cases joel johansi ken always a pleasure thanks for having me
49:08the next conversation manhood you know there's so many topics so again you have to tune