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00:00Natural sources since 1922 and Racetrack.
00:30You know, hear from a lot of the young men, women, older men, and older women, of course, to ensure that what we bring, even though it's very conversational and as jovial many times when some jokes are cracked, it's a very serious topic.
00:43Because at the end, what we want to achieve is to be better as brothers.
00:49Today's topic, a bit off topic in certain ways, men are from Mars, women are from Venus.
00:56We've heard it so many times, and at the end of it all, a lot of it comes down to triggers.
01:03And you hear women a lot of times say, you know, men and their s**t.
01:07And what I'm trying to get across today, and hopefully in a sort of synopsis, you know, a culmination of nuggets that we have discussed over the period of this season,
01:19is that if we continue to think the same way and do the same thing over and over and over again, then that's the definition of insanity.
01:28We need to make the change.
01:29And if someone's at 80, then you can't be at 30 or 40 or 50.
01:33You can only be at 20 as a max because there's only 100%.
01:37So I'm appealing to all those that are listening and hearing that let's try to make the change.
01:44Let the change begin with us, and that's the only way that we're going to be better as brothers, better as partners, better in a relationship, better as humans.
01:55Because we're not dolphins.
01:57We're not horses.
01:58We can only be better within ourselves as humans.
02:02You know, there's only a male and female, and therefore, if we aren't batting for one another, then who is?
02:08True.
02:08I agree.
02:09So once again, it's a pleasure, Johanse IODK, Behavior Change Consultant, a good friend, Jesse Ramdeo, senior producer, producer, and of course, Niall McNish, producer, actor, turf creator, you know, there's a couple of things inside this.
02:33So really excited to have all of us, you know, within this conversation today.
02:37So season finale, guys.
02:39Season finale.
02:40Yeah.
02:40All right.
02:40You know, a lot of nuggets, Johanse, have come across this table over a period of time.
02:46That is true.
02:48Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, right?
02:51I've heard that since I was a child.
02:53Facts.
02:54I haven't read the book, right?
02:56Right now, a group of us men, we have the audio book, so we kind of just kind of listening to it so we could understand.
03:02And one of the guys thus far who almost completed, he was sharing some of this stuff, right?
03:08And his goal is goal because I've once heard a quote that says, don't try to understand women, just accept who they are.
03:20Right?
03:20So don't try to understand women.
03:22Because, you know, you always hear men trying to understand women.
03:25They have some jokes where this is the book.
03:28This is the book to understand women.
03:29And when you open it, it's a blank.
03:31Right?
03:32I've read that book before.
03:34That's a meme, actually, as well.
03:35But he was saying, don't try to understand them, just accept who they are.
03:41Yes.
03:41Right?
03:42And I'll go even a little deeper because all women are not the same.
03:44Correct.
03:45So the women in your life, the women you're interacting with, accept who they are.
03:49Sometimes you may not have to like it, eh?
03:52I ain't saying like it all the time, but accept who they are.
03:56Any thoughts?
03:57I mean, even on that, I mean, just to say that, you know, even, as you said, just accept who they are.
04:05You know, we ask the same.
04:06We ask that women also accept who men are.
04:09And I'm not just talking about men.
04:11Everyone's individual in their own.
04:13But even in that individuality, right, you are still the same to someone because that's not unique.
04:19So even I might specifically like this, as crazy as it might be, I'm almost guaranteed there are hundreds of thousands of others that I haven't probably met as yet that feel the same way.
04:30True.
04:31So, you know, we're not reinventing the wheel here.
04:34So it's a case of both.
04:35It comes down to mutual respect and understanding the innate behaviors, innate what makes you a man.
04:44So whether we come back to the blueprint.
04:46The blueprint.
04:46The blueprint.
04:47So whether it comes back down to men are hunters, women are nurturers, and you take it from there.
04:53That's what we're asking for, that respect of that and not try to understand that, but to accept it.
04:59We don't have to understand.
05:00It's like a...
05:01And I think the airline is the beauty of it, accepting the fabric of a woman, what constitutes a woman,
05:10and whether that woman is a partner, a relative, you know, not looking necessarily all the time for the negatives or the faults or the flaws,
05:24but accepting them as they are, you know.
05:27To me, that is the beauty, isn't it?
05:29Beauty.
05:29And it took me a long time to accept that and to realize that.
05:34And I'll dial back.
05:35I'll dial into a point and I'll share my relationship with my wife.
05:40It took me a real long time to accept certain things, right?
05:44Throughout the journey, I...
05:46Like what?
05:47Perhaps, one, as an individual, I tend to be very independent.
05:55You know, I tend to be things like being a clean, free, stuff like that now, you know.
06:02Coming into a relationship, sharing a woman, that kind of thing, realizing that I'm sharing a space with someone,
06:09certain things that I am accustomed with is no longer...
06:12That mold has been broken, right?
06:15Having to know...
06:16In my mind, I was like, gosh, why you can't get certain things right?
06:18Why things can't be done as it to me?
06:20But then I realized, just see, it makes more sense if you accept certain things,
06:23change what you can as an individual, right?
06:26And perhaps let that individual learn from that as well, you know.
06:30To me, I'm not here to control.
06:33I strongly believe that we struggle as men with a power dynamic.
06:37Absolutely.
06:38You see that power dynamic?
06:39The roots of it.
06:40Yeah, boy, that power dynamic.
06:42And two working people, I mean, that is a recipe for disaster right there.
06:48There are so many things coming out of that, you know.
06:51But like you said, I mean, two become one and one become two, you know, in a scenario of marriage.
06:57And it's a matter of when you go to that sort of depth, it's compromise.
07:01Correct.
07:02And understanding, you want me to...
07:05Two becomes one and one becomes two.
07:06Two become one because, you know, it's one household.
07:09It's one, you know, you have a common goal.
07:10When one becomes two.
07:11And one then becomes two because in his case, for example, you know, he was an individual at that particular point, an independent.
07:18And now it's two persons in that.
07:19And it's a depth that, you know, over a period of time, you know, you'd either rise or become, you know.
07:30So, you know, and that's a really solid point, Jess, you know.
07:34But, you know, we come back to the fact that it is a power dynamic.
07:40And men are men.
07:43You know, there are certain things that we can change.
07:45And there are certain things that, as we keep coming back to, that are innate.
07:49Even as a man, we're also different.
07:53And, you know, we keep saying it many a time.
07:55Opinions are like...
07:56You know, everybody has one.
07:57And, therefore, you in your, someone's opinion of somebody or someone's thoughts on someone is varied to, you know, whether it be, you know, male or female.
08:10So, I, even though a woman might like something with a man or particular men that she may be involved with, right, doesn't mean that that's all men.
08:20You know, it's just her interaction and what those men are being.
08:24And whether they're becoming, you know, I saw something yesterday, man boys or man child, you know, you're being a man child, which is a topic I don't want to discuss in detail at one point, you know.
08:36So, and it depends whether she's accepting of that or in that space that a man child turns on and she wants to be that man child or gives her, you know, levels of feeling younger and doing certain things and wild and he's adventurous and you hear all these things.
08:51So, whether you want a grown man, as some say.
08:57Well, that acceptance comes with twofold.
09:01Because we men, first, even without a woman, we have to accept ourselves, right?
09:06We should.
09:07I don't like to say have to because I don't tell people what they have to do.
09:10Yeah.
09:10But we should accept who we are at whatever stage we are.
09:13Right.
09:14Even if I'm a 40-year-old man and people think I should be way ahead in terms of maturity or whatever it is.
09:21But if I'm not there yet, accepting yourself first.
09:23Right.
09:24Because if you don't accept yourself, that means you're not facing the truth.
09:27Correct.
09:27And if you're not facing the truth, then you can't do anything about it.
09:30Totally ignorant.
09:32You're totally ignorant.
09:33The person that's with you also needs to do that.
09:35It's either, okay, this is how they are, right?
09:37And I need to accept this, I need to accept what they're doing, and don't go into something thinking you're going to change.
09:43It also took me a long time to acknowledge, recognize, and accept things about me that I just didn't want to in.
09:52I am a man, I have absolutely no patience.
09:55Right?
09:56And I saw that more.
09:58I saw that the most when I got married.
10:00I couldn't believe I lacked that amount of patience.
10:04Right?
10:04And when I got into that relationship and I became, when I was married, even during the process, you know, things would happen.
10:13And triggering me, triggering my, testing my patience.
10:17And I'd be like, but Jesse, you need me.
10:19You're supposed to have the most patience with everybody, that kind of thing.
10:21You know, trying to convince myself that, A, you're wrong, I write.
10:27But until I step back, look at it holistically, and realize, Jesse, you're wrong, boy.
10:35You know, there are things that you need to, like you said, you should accept.
10:38You should be willing to identify, I should say.
10:41There are things you should identify, recognize, acknowledge, and accept.
10:47Because I think it bodes welfare development as an individual.
10:49If you could not be ignorant to things that auger welfare, growth, and development.
10:56You know, now as an individual at 33, trying to work on my patience level, trying to be better, trying to be a bit more understanding.
11:05I think you're preparing me for what is to come, which for me the next step is, you know, fatherhood.
11:10Right.
11:11Right?
11:11So, I mean, being objective about things, being honest with yourself, is really also very critical.
11:19That's the hardest part of it.
11:20Yeah.
11:21That's the part that most people, they stumble on.
11:24And I was about to ask, like, what is an exercise, practical exercise that anybody could do, but especially men, to analyze themselves?
11:34Because a lot of the time, we get caught up in our egos a lot.
11:37And as was literally, because I don't want to blame women as well, but everybody tends to be blind to the perception of the other person, right?
11:49So, now that it's just me, and I want to be in a moment where, you know, I'm angry, but in the back of my mind, I know that I'm wrong, you know.
11:58I know that there's a change that I could do, and what is being said to me has some credibility, you know, in an argument.
12:04And I'm just choosing just to fight a little bit longer because I don't want to lose because of the ego.
12:10What is an exercise that I could do in a moment, or what can I say to bring myself back to reality and really be able to release that?
12:20You know what?
12:22I was wrong.
12:23Well, you know, there's these, you know, I like to come in all the time saying something, you know, wrong and strong, you know.
12:31And that's where it comes from.
12:33You want to be, you know, you pick your battle, but then in picking your battle, you can win the battle, but you can lose the war.
12:39And a lot of times, as I've said on, you know, other conversations that we've had with manhood, is that part of it, you have to look at the, you are not the problem.
12:49Your partner isn't the problem.
12:50The problem is the problem.
12:51And it's us identifying that.
12:54And once you can be mature enough, you know, people use things like safe words.
12:57But in the heat of the moment, I challenge anybody to tell me that those safe words or those things that you put in, you know, whatever that may be, work each and every time.
13:08It doesn't because there'll be a point that you'll be like, F that safe word.
13:13I want to make this particular point.
13:14And 90% of the time, you realize it has nothing to do with that particular issue.
13:20It's a lot of pent-up other stuff that brings you to that point.
13:24All right.
13:25So let me answer, Naira, and then you, and then you'll come in, Jesse.
13:30When you're asking what is the technique that you could do, now what I'm going to say impractically, the first thing I talk about is get married.
13:37Right?
13:38Let me tell you why I say that.
13:39And then I'll give you something practical.
13:41I realize, and it's me personally, without being married, I didn't see the full picture of myself.
13:49Right?
13:50Being single, I know what I like, what I could do, even reach a certain level of success.
13:55Yeah.
13:56Right?
13:57And I'm cool.
13:58I'm good.
13:59But when a wife came into my life, even though I didn't like certain things because I didn't want to see certain parts of myself, and then I couldn't.
14:08And I say couldn't, that's an important part.
14:11I couldn't see parts of myself.
14:13So having a wife, and whether you want to call it a good wife or bad wife, or not having a wife or somebody looking at you from a different perspective, help a lot.
14:22Right?
14:22So that's the long answer.
14:24That's not the short answer.
14:25The short answer of it is what helped me is doing research, you know, researching it.
14:32Because there's something, I mean, in the field, there's something called the Jahari window.
14:37I don't know if you all ever heard about that.
14:38Jahari.
14:39Jahari window.
14:40By liking it.
14:42Jahari window.
14:43You want to put in your little tidbit box, you know.
14:45Well, just think about a classic window, square, and then with the cross in the middle, so you have four segments, right?
14:51And the basic is how you see yourself, how others see you, then there are parts of you that you don't see that others will see, and then there's the unknown.
15:01I think I get that correct.
15:03And when I learned about Jahari window, I always keep that in mind.
15:07So there's a way I see myself, which is me, but of course could be blinded by ego, could be blinded by triggers, trauma, upbringing, all kind of thing.
15:16Then it have what people see, and sometimes what people see, sometimes what I want them to see, but also what they're seeing is also based on their own lenses.
15:26Okay.
15:27Right?
15:27And then there's a part where people seeing things that I'm not seeing.
15:31And then we go in the unknown.
15:34The unknown is, let me call it extraneous variables.
15:36Things I might see, things I mightn't see, et cetera.
15:39So it has all of that in play.
15:40So when I do something, and let's see somebody reacting in a way that I may not want, or I suppress it, why he behaves, or why she gets on so, I no longer come from the place that there's something wrong with them.
15:52Right?
15:52Now, something could be wrong with them too.
15:54Yeah.
15:55But I'm considering now all the options.
15:57So what did I do?
15:59What do you mean?
15:59That something's wrong with them.
16:01I'm just saying it.
16:02Yeah.
16:02That's objective.
16:04Yeah.
16:04So the objective, as you've seen, more objective is looking at, okay, I did what I did.
16:08I know my intent.
16:10But of course, my actions could translate different to my intent.
16:14Right.
16:14And then not necessarily something wrong with me or them, so I'll go in with your premise.
16:17It's not something wrong with, not the problem, it's you or me, but the problem is the problem.
16:22So looking at it from that point of view, it's not that something wrong with me, something wrong with who, but that there's a mistranslation, there's a miscommunication somewhere there.
16:32And then let me talk.
16:34So we had to go to a quick break.
16:36And, you know, I like that because a lot of times, the part I'm agreeing with is that a lot of times you can't see the picture, you know, inside the frame.
16:47Right.
16:48You need to step out.
16:49Of course.
16:49The people can see it and appreciate it.
16:50But I do not agree with the fact that you have to get married as a result because marriage comes with its own problems.
16:57So we want to set people down the road.
16:59I didn't say that.
17:00I didn't say that.
17:01Because a wife, there could be a wifey, you know, and not necessarily a wife.
17:06So we take a quick break.
17:07Welcome back to Manhood.
17:21This is the season finale, not the last conversation, but at least the last one for this season.
17:28Right.
17:28Not the final conversation.
17:30We were discussing men are from Mars, women are from Venus.
17:34We hear that a million times.
17:35And we're delving into it today.
17:37And when we came, when we left the break, we came, we were talking about marriage and importance of marriage.
17:45And I was making a little joke with Niall saying that, you know, you need to get married to understand the full gamut of yourself.
17:51And this was a joke.
17:52Right.
17:52But of course, I'm not discrediting it.
17:54I either.
17:55Because marriage helps you.
17:57Or even, let me say, Rob, point of view, a long-term relationship, long-term committed relationship, you will see yourself.
18:04Right.
18:04If you're with yourself, you can't see yourself.
18:07It's like, you can't see your own nose.
18:08You can't see your own forehead.
18:09You can't see your own face unless you look in a mirror.
18:11And the mirror sometimes is your partner.
18:14Correct.
18:14Right.
18:15And I was going to share a personal story.
18:19But I know you had something burning.
18:21Now, people, when we're on the break, we still talk, right?
18:23Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:24So jumping, let's see.
18:25On the topic of marriage and what it constitutes for me, to me, at 33 and growing up, you've always hit the narrative, fall in love.
18:34I've never believed in that.
18:36Because in falling in love, you could fall out of love.
18:39I believe in growing in love.
18:41That is just me.
18:42Okay.
18:42I know that is subjective.
18:44But for me, and I experienced it.
18:46I experienced falling in love.
18:48And man, falling out of love is equally as easy.
18:51But growing in love and growing to love somebody is a whole different ballgame.
18:59And to me, that is what allows for, to me, is a contributing factor in the success of a marriage.
19:08In that, you know, as much as you're growing as, in a marriage, you're also growing as an individual, right?
19:16And I often have this concept, zero expectations lead to zero disappointment.
19:25And I cannot afford to be disappointed again.
19:28I feel like, you know, grappling with so many different things, disappointment is probably one of the last things I could deal with in this world, you know?
19:36So I do have expectations.
19:38I have objectives, right?
19:39I try to meet objectives.
19:41If I don't meet them, work harder to meet them eventually, right?
19:46I don't expect that I'll have the most successful marriage in the universe.
19:51But I have objectives that will hopefully make me have a very successful marriage, right?
19:56And for me, as a young person, little concepts like that, what I've unearthed through my own experiences, and I believe experience is really key, eh?
20:08Your own individual experience.
20:10It's not going to be the same for everybody.
20:12And I am seeing, I am, I couldn't be any clearer on this point that everyone's experience is going to be different.
20:21It has worked for me thus far.
20:24Just, look, let me, do you mind if I just jump up as a challenge or something, right?
20:27You say that you may not have the most successful marriage, but based on the institution as you know it now, a successful marriage means one of you all die.
20:38And that's a successful marriage, till death do us part, means that marriage was successful.
20:43Okay, you're right, I think you're going by wood, and that's interesting, till one of you all die.
20:47That's a successful marriage, I think.
20:49All right, all right.
20:49And then when you say that you don't have any expectations, this is what I really want, the challenges.
20:55I feel that, one, we as men should not shy away from disappointment because I think that limits us a lot.
21:04Expectations create standards, and standards is what make us do better, at least in my interpretation.
21:11So, and a lot of people, we tend to want to just say, you know, whatever happens, you know, that way I could run away from the fact of that ugly feeling, because no one wants to feel disappointed ever, especially in a partner.
21:26But here's this opportunity to hold someone accountable.
21:29Say, hey, this is what I expected from you, and this is standard I would appreciate.
21:34And if you don't meet that standard, here's an opportunity.
21:38Yes, I'm disappointed, but here's an opportunity for us to work on it together.
21:43Right.
21:43And I'm okay with making you feel maybe a little bit uncomfortable, because no one wants to disappoint someone else either.
21:51But that's where actual growth is.
21:53It's always in the pain.
21:54You're a German.
21:55You will only get better or bigger if you feel it hurts.
21:59Yeah.
22:00And we have to stop shining away from it.
22:02Okay.
22:03So, I'm going to take a, I'm going to kind of ramble here a bit.
22:08The usual.
22:09Right?
22:09So, the, just to address some conversation.
22:13First, just, you know, I really, I really appreciate the honesty.
22:16You know, that, that, that takes a lot to speak about maybe a past relationship, especially when you're in the present and the fact that this is national, national TV, to really commit.
22:29Because what we're trying to do is be real and meet people where they are and shying away from the conversation or hiding and trying to be perfect.
22:36Oh, this is, this doesn't, doesn't resolve anything.
22:39It doesn't get the message out.
22:40It doesn't, we're not reaching people where they are.
22:42These delusions of grandeur, that's a society.
22:44The delusions of grandeur.
22:45And, and, you know, a couple, so, so I just wanted to present the fact that I appreciate your honesty with regards to that.
22:51And, you know, when you would fall on anything to fall, I mean, yes, there's a, there's a positive spin on that to say it's about getting back up.
22:58But to say to fall in love means a trip.
23:01Almost like, you know, there's a, there's almost like a negative spin on that.
23:04I like the whole idea of growing in love and focusing on that and really putting, you know, a commitment to, to achieving that.
23:13It's very similar to, I think, a conversation that we had, or maybe it was a behind the scenes where, you know, we've had guests and people have written in and commented where they talk about sexless marriages or sexless relationships.
23:25Or they're frustrated on either end who may have a lower libido or who may have had a higher libido.
23:30And then it comes down to men and their shit or men, all men think about is where their penis is, et cetera, et cetera.
23:35And in some research, you know, a woman, a woman told me, she said, why, why don't, you know, what you focus on, you know, I like to say that what you focus on is what you see.
23:45And why is it that couples or in any relationship that you are not saying, okay, you know what, this is my goal.
23:52Let's agree that this is where we want to get to.
23:55Like I was discussing with you, Johansi, about marriage and the fact that you need to go into marriage with a clear understanding, almost like a contract to say, okay, let's discuss bills.
24:04Let's discuss our sexual relationship expectations.
24:06Now, granted, you change as time goes on, which is why I don't believe in the whole, you know, till death do us part and all that.
24:13It should simply be, I will always give you my truth.
24:16Because we change as people and I'm saying that going forward with that thought process is that if you know that you want X amount and you can sit down and agree on it, say, listen, can we agree on three times a week?
24:35And you might say, well, that takes a sort of fun, but what it does is it gives you a commitment and not only gives you a commitment, but it also shows that you're not an option at that point, that we're really, we both value each other, value what we want and the intention is there.
24:54And also, you can look forward to it.
24:57It's like, hey, today's Wednesday, boy.
24:59Hey, fellas.
25:00You know what I mean?
25:01I can't sweat today, bro.
25:02I can't sweat today, bro.
25:03I can't sweat today, bro.
25:03I can't sweat.
25:04I'll fit it for Nile, you know.
25:07I'll fit it for Nile.
25:08And that is very, very important.
25:11And so I wanted a presence of that, but I also wanted a presence of, you know, Khalil Gibran.
25:16You know, I read, you know, most of you may have read The Bodhi Prophet.
25:20And they speak about, you know, when I said about one becoming two, two becoming one, where it's not about people saying, you know, that's my better half or two halves together becoming whole.
25:30It's a matter of two halves coming together and making the experience better and not so that you can, you're still, you're still your individual.
25:39You still have what you need to have, which is why people sometimes have, you know, I think I heard Steve Harvey say about having four accounts.
25:46You know, you have one account that sets up when the money comes in for bills, right?
25:50You have one account that sets up for what the man wants, what the woman wants.
25:54So that's three accounts.
25:55And then you have an account for, you know, vacation and all the rest of it.
26:01So that ramble comes to a close with saying that, you know, one thing that, you know, a good friend of ours, Gola, you know, had told me that it really was impactful for me is what makes having, not necessarily in a marriage, but having a long-term partner is that person is your witness to your life.
26:26And that's what you get.
26:27So, you know, someone you could turn to and say, hey, remember when so-and-so, or remember when this happened, or they get to know you, get to understand what you like.
26:35And that, that brings you, that brings you a certain element of peace.
26:39Yeah.
26:41So I'm grateful for your ramble.
26:43And I was using all my strength to remember what they say with your ramble, but it wasn't, actually, this wasn't a ramble.
26:50This was a very good nugget that you gave.
26:53It was a big nugget, but it was still a nugget, right?
26:55I'll try, you know.
26:56All right.
26:57That's why we'll get paid the big bucks.
26:59So coming to Jesse, I'm also going to echo Robert's sentiment about being honest, because even in the other conversations we had in manhood, we understand one of the major tenets of being a man is being honest.
27:11Being honest and being able to face your own self.
27:14And then adding into what Niall was saying about the disappointment.
27:18We as men, we do shy away from disappointment a lot, right?
27:21And doing some research on that, I realized that we weren't trained for disappointment, right?
27:27So again, I'm not blaming, I'm going through the thought process, because now we're aware we could do something different.
27:32So it's not about blaming or being a victim.
27:34But we weren't trained for disappointment, right?
27:36And because you weren't trained for disappointment, we're not sure how to accept it.
27:42So now we're understanding that we could put things in place.
27:45And then you said about not having expectations.
27:48And then sometimes it translates into, well, anything goes.
27:51And a lot of us men, a relationship training men say, well, nah, anything now.
27:55Anything.
27:56And the truth is we actually take anything.
27:58And that's not good at all.
28:00And we had discussed it before.
28:02It's good to have standards, right?
28:04It's good to have a framework, because just taking anything, that means if you use a 10 out of 10, if you rate yourself high, that means you go take a 2 out of 10.
28:11You go take a 3 out of 10.
28:12And that's not a standard.
28:14And then going into marriage.
28:16And I was sitting here thinking how grateful I am for this, you know.
28:21Because if I had this before, and if we men, men in general, if we had this before, we would do a lot of things differently.
28:29Because I was married before, right?
28:32So I went through a divorce and now I'm married again.
28:35And the many things that I know now, if I knew, things would be a lot differently.
28:40So even what you're saying about the standards and setting up and having that conversation before, I didn't know about that.
28:47And the men before me, they didn't really tell you the truth.
28:52Everything is kind of a laugh and a joke and a whoever it is now.
28:56Everything is love on butter, right?
28:57Right?
28:58But understanding it now.
28:59And then I even went through understanding that on the second time that love is not a feeling.
29:05Because I thought it was a feeling.
29:06And the truth is, the feeling came and it went.
29:08It came and it went.
29:09It came and it went.
29:10And I remember there's a movie I was watching.
29:12I don't know if you'll ever look at the movie, The Prestige.
29:15Right?
29:15The magician.
29:16Yes.
29:16And there's a moment when he would tell his wife, I love you.
29:20And then she would say, you mean it today.
29:22And then some days I know you don't mean it.
29:24And I used to relate to that because before, some days I felt it and some days I didn't.
29:29And I always thought, is that right?
29:30Is that wrong?
29:31But now, with knowledge, right, with a little gray in my beard, I understand marriage, the institution of marriage.
29:38I want you to tell me my institution is not, our institution is not based on emotion.
29:44Right.
29:44Right?
29:45It's based on our intent.
29:46Correct.
29:46Two people come together.
29:47Now, love will be there.
29:49The butterflies will.
29:50No, I don't believe in butterflies either.
29:52I love you.
29:52And see, when you say that, because normally the saying I hear is like, I don't always like you, but I love you.
29:58But if you're saying that you're actually saying I don't love you today, I mean, even though it's certainly not unconditional love, that's something you really have for a partner.
30:07It's normally what you have for your children.
30:09But is it that today I don't love you, but I'm tolerating you then?
30:14Is that what you're saying?
30:15No.
30:15What I was saying before is that was my incorrect assumption and perception of love.
30:20What I understand love to be now is a choice.
30:22Every day is a choice to love the person.
30:25No, let me even go day.
30:27Every second is a choice to love the person.
30:30So you could say that, that it's a choice.
30:32So you choose to get married.
30:34You choose to have a life together.
30:37Right?
30:37Some days I don't like you, but I choose to love you.
30:40There's a meme where it's an older couple and rain falling.
30:43And he vexed.
30:44And the umbrella.
30:45You know it.
30:46So he vexed with her, but he's still shouting.
30:49And he's taking the reign.
30:50So that day is a choice.
30:52He likes you, you know, but he loves her in the moment.
30:55And that now every day is a choice.
30:57So therefore, if you understand it from that concept, marriage changes, you know, because I'm not tolerating for tolerating you.
31:03Because some days you'll reach your threshold, you know, and then you wouldn't want no part of this.
31:07But if you and that person decide on a standard and a goal and a mission and a legacy, because that's what I'm learning now, creating a legacy, which is not an emotional thing.
31:20If you and that person create that, then sometimes we'll be vexed.
31:24When you think about it, that vexation in the moment means nothing to a legacy.
31:28All of them things trivial and things now.
31:30So what you're doing there, Johans, is you're sort of, you need to take a break.
31:34What you're doing is you're giving Niall some context and a response to what he was asking.
31:41Because when you have that moment of you want to come and you want to win the argument, a lot of times you know you're right.
31:50You know, they always say, you know, women are always right, you know, and, you know, a happy wife, happy life.
31:56But what it comes down to is what is important to you.
32:00So being right about something that is subjective, like, OK, so you see it and you and what's left.
32:09So you see it and you may have hurt her or embarrassed her.
32:13And what's really what's really important point that you stand up there and go, ah, you know, I win, I win.
32:19I think as men, we we really are afraid of being emasculated in losing our conversation.
32:29We think we are being stripped off from manhood, our dignity, anything that makes us a man.
32:34No, nothing is wrong.
32:37And being emasculated is not the end of the world.
32:40You know, and you don't need to you don't need to interpret everything.
32:44And again, I use you would interpret very loosely here, but you don't need to interpret everything as being emasculated.
32:51Look at it from a different perspective.
32:53Look at it as you can learn something from this experience.
32:56It's not you being emasculated or or she's poking fun at you or using the opportunity to say, yeah, I beat you today.
33:04It's not like that.
33:05It took the higher road.
33:06Yeah.
33:07And the higher road for, at the end, what could happen?
33:10You know, you might get some later.
33:12Yeah.
33:13You know, as a result of that, you know, you realize that who really wins here?
33:17And it's not about winning, you know?
33:19Okay.
33:19So like I said, you leave somebody hurt.
33:22Therefore, who really wins?
33:23Yeah.
33:24And isn't the objective of a life really to go on, go into an area or room, an environment or meet someone and leave it better than you found it?
33:32It's not ultimately what you should strive to have.
33:35So why am I going to want to tear someone down?
33:38I feel, I feel broken inside when I realize I've hurt somebody or embarrass them when they come back and say, I don't like how you spoke to me there.
33:46Even though at that point I'm very resolute, I'm very stern and stowing, I, inside, I'm like, well, that's how you showed up.
33:53You showed up in your smallness.
33:54And that's not how I want to be.
33:56But we need to take a break.
33:58So, you know, good, good, good, good comfort.
34:01Yeah, man.
34:01Welcome back to Manhood.
34:15We've been having such an amazing conversation.
34:17I wish this could have been a longer conversation.
34:20I wish I could have been part of it from the beginning.
34:23And the conversation has been centered around man is from Mars, woman, they're from Venus, right?
34:31But let's dial back to the initial topic and why we're here.
34:35The whole issue of the power dynamic and that topic.
34:39You know, Rob, what's the takeaway here?
34:42What do you want the takeaway to be?
34:44Yeah, I just, what I would like is certainly the whole premise, the reason for manhood is to be better as brothers.
34:54So, in order to be better as brothers, I want us to also take from men are from Mars, women are from Venus, that we can coexist.
35:03That's the beauty of it.
35:04Yes.
35:04You know, as, you know, K-Mar, you know, our managing editor here at Guardian Media would always say, you know,
35:12if two people always agree, one is unnecessary.
35:16And it's the same thing.
35:17If we're always doing the same thing, in certain things it's great.
35:21You know, you have a partner, you have that witness doing the same things and you can enjoy things together.
35:26But, you know, it's okay for someone to come along for the ride but not necessarily enjoy the journey.
35:32And there's also instances where two people can do things on their own so that they can have conversation
35:37and that you can always have a dynamic and you can exist.
35:41You can't coexist.
35:43And so, it's to understand that, yes, men may be from Mars and women may be from Venus, but guess what?
35:50We are perfect.
35:51You know, if we start to go down the depths of Kama Sutra and things like that, that's what brings the beauty to it.
35:56So, what I want to get out of it is that it's okay to, we need to stop saying, for example, men and s**t and just say, hey, that's a man.
36:04That statement really rubbery, rubbery, rubbery, rubbery, rubbery.
36:07Yeah, it does.
36:07It does.
36:07You know, talking about that from the first time.
36:10From the first time.
36:11Because when a woman says men and s**t, what you're doing is you're discrediting and discounting what is in it.
36:17It's not a choice to specifically say, okay, well, you know, as you said, Jess, for example, patience.
36:23You can work on that.
36:24You know, if you are a particular way, you can work on certain things.
36:27But there are certain things that make a man a man.
36:30And there are certain things that make a woman a woman.
36:32And we need to, instead of come down on it, we need to appreciate it, love, and embrace it.
36:39And respect the fact that part of my attraction to the woman in the first place is also some of these things.
36:45Yeah, that's part of a character.
36:47That's part of a character.
36:48That is true.
36:49Not to defend the man s**t statement, right?
36:53However, I believe that a lot of times the complaint that women would have is that, as you just rightfully said,
36:59there are characteristics that a man has.
37:03But I feel that when men don't fall within those characteristics is where I feel the man s**t is coming to play.
37:13When men don't be providers or be protectors, when they step out.
37:18Not in this case that I'm talking about.
37:19When I have the bee in my bonnet about it and men in this s**t, I fully embrace your point.
37:24If it's coming from that point of insecurity, low self-esteem, macho bravado, all of these things.
37:33That could be men in this s**t.
37:34And it's something that you have to deal with in your smallness and in your space.
37:38Okay.
37:39Right?
37:39I'm talking about men in this s**t with regards to a man, like man being a man.
37:46Give an example.
37:47So, a certain, men are egos.
37:51Men are logical thinkers, right?
37:54For the most part, women are more emotional.
37:57Like we spoke about in a previous episode with the whole agreeability, right?
38:01Women are more predisposed to that, pure, because innately, they're nurturers.
38:07And we can't take that away, you know, from what makes a female a female.
38:11And which is why you find even in love languages, that males, love languages, they want to be touched.
38:18They want to feel touched.
38:20Touched.
38:21Physical.
38:21You know?
38:22But, you know, again, we could come down to, you know, the premise of all humans, all mankind, is to be loved and to know that you are enough.
38:30Right?
38:30Robert, I get your point about that.
38:33And I agree with you because in the last conversation, I was saying I'd really like the term, the battle of the sexes.
38:39Now, I understand it in fun and in jest, right?
38:42But when we're battling, nobody winning.
38:45There's a connotation to that, eh?
38:47And it should be a battle.
38:49No, what he's saying?
38:50Battle.
38:51Yeah.
38:52That connotes, you know, violence, war, that kind of thing.
38:55I mean, you could apply different meanings to it, but it doesn't need to be like that.
38:59It's unnecessary.
39:00Iron is sharp on iron.
39:02Iron is sharp on iron.
39:03And just to answer your question with regards to a specific example, in that specificity, I'm speaking about men are hunters.
39:15So, if you're talking about the whole thing about wanting to provide, wanting to protect, those characteristics are innately within a male, right?
39:28And so, I'm not talking about men and their shit when they're not doing these things.
39:32I'm talking about when they fall into the status quo, the understanding of this is what is a quintessential male person.
39:42Well, again, so, and I totally understand that, but as you say, men are hunters.
39:46But what if a man is a predator, still hunting, right?
39:52Still in the space of I'm a hunter, but now he is now in a space where he is now being a predator to the weaker sex.
40:02And then that's men and their shit.
40:04So, that's not in the category I'm facing it.
40:06I'm talking about just being a male, like what, what, what, in the positive light of what men are from Mars, that, what that character, what the body is.
40:15Let me see if I can give a specific example, right?
40:17Because I noticed Robert not giving a specific example.
40:20A specific example is most men are problem solvers, right?
40:23So, if a woman comes to you with a problem, what you're thinking about already is the solution.
40:27But many times, women don't want that.
40:29They want somebody to vent to.
40:30So, an innate thing of a man being a man, being a problem solver, especially if it's a woman you love.
40:36If a woman, you love coming to you, what you're thinking about already, I don't want to see her in distress.
40:40I want to solve the problem.
40:41Right?
40:41I want to solve the problem.
40:42But she may not want the problem solved.
40:44I give that as a good example between Mars and Venus.
40:48We want to solve, they want to vent.
40:51Neither one right or wrong because venting is real important.
40:54Right.
40:54And she needs to vent a gate out to even be open and susceptible to the solution.
40:58Correct.
40:59Right?
40:59But if a woman berates a man, all you want to do is solve the problem, then that could be a woman berating a man for being a man.
41:07Or if I say, but all you want to do is vent, that could mean me berating a woman for being a woman.
41:13So, understanding the difference because what I like, not the battle of the sexes, but I call it the dance of the sexes.
41:18Right?
41:19Right?
41:19With that dance, it's a different thing.
41:21So, she come and she vent, right?
41:23And you're dancing with it and then she get out all the feelings and then you present the problem.
41:28That is, I mean, the solution.
41:30And then we present the solution and then now the dance complete.
41:38Right.
41:39And now we both live happy.
41:41So, really, and that is the point, understanding is not better or worse.
41:46It's really the compliment.
41:47And that's what it is.
41:49A woman is supposed to compliment a man.
41:51A man is supposed to compliment a woman.
41:53And how we're reaching there, I think first the base is, what we talk about, is being truthful with yourself.
41:59Because even understanding as a man, who you are as a man, that the same thing I just said, we men want a problem solved.
42:07Understanding that first, real important, so that you could even be able to manage it.
42:11You know what he's saying?
42:12Knowledge is power.
42:13So, therefore, the more you understand and know about yourself, the more power you have to manage yourself.
42:20And pun intended, manage yourself.
42:23So, then you know, in your power, knowing that I like to be logical all the time.
42:28But then, hmm, I can manage it because in this instance, I don't need to be logical yet.
42:33Right?
42:34In this instance, I'm a man.
42:35I know I'm more powerful physically.
42:37Right?
42:38But because I know that, I can manage that in certain situations.
42:42I, as a man, know, let's say there's a power dynamic because I'm a man.
42:46But now, because I understand it and I accept it and I know it as truth, I can be able to manage it better.
42:51So, therefore, I can be more responsible with everything that constitutes me as a man.
42:57Not perfect.
42:58I ain't saying perfect.
43:00But we understand where it comes from.
43:03So, now, with the woman from Venus, we can understand how to do it.
43:07And I would say, ladies, you all too, you know, you all have to understand what constitutes yourself as being a woman and understand it.
43:13So, then you can manage it.
43:14So, now, we can have the dance, right?
43:17Wherever we dance, even if it was our wine, right?
43:22We can both do the dance as best as we could.
43:24Not perfect, but as best as we could.
43:26So, I want to, we've come to our moment.
43:32It's the season finale.
43:33And, of course, this particular conversation needs to end.
43:37And I want to take it away to kind of segue and use men and their s**t to really, really put it down to, as men, we know we are s**t.
43:48Most times.
43:49Most times.
43:50Most times.
43:50And we need to acknowledge that.
43:51And it's not a case of women are doing this and women and triggers and things like that.
43:57Men are s**t.
43:57And we want to acknowledge that and say, we need to be better as brothers.
44:02And I want us to give our closing thoughts some of the takeaways from the other episodes, some of the conversations, or just personal experiences as to how do we be better as brothers?
44:15And what are we individually going to do to not only try to get across to the persons we come in contact with or persons who are listening to this program, but to really going to make an effort within ourselves.
44:31You know, because the change must start within.
44:33We can't be expecting what we ourselves are not willing to try to achieve at the very least.
44:40And this is where fall comes in.
44:41You know, we can fall many times if it's about getting back up.
44:45So, you know, our takeaway thoughts, guys, better as brothers.
44:51I think it will all start with what a lot of times happens that men don't hold other fellows accountable when they own their s**t.
45:02You know, like we would give up bridging our bongs when you own your wife.
45:06And I find that's out of time.
45:08And I get it.
45:09You know, you want to do things out of line.
45:12But if you make a commitment and you say, yo, this is what I got to do.
45:16And I come to your wedding.
45:18I'm not trying to see you hone your wife, dog.
45:22I'm not trying to see it.
45:23You know, don't do it in front of me.
45:25So, your girl, however, that's at the front.
45:28Anyway, but the point is that it has moments where, you know, as a man, you could really hold your bridge in.
45:37Yo, here's the scene.
45:38That's not cool.
45:39You know that he's going to take, he's going to tote on it because fellas don't want to hear the next man talking to them in a certain way.
45:47But I feel that if it is your risk, your friendship, and you really go out and say, yo, here's the scene.
45:54This is what I think you could be doing better.
45:56This is what I am disappointed in you in.
45:59And I feel that, you know, this is the change that you should make.
46:02I think that as a whole, as men, we would be in a better space.
46:08And piggybacking off of what he said in holding others accountable, do not be afraid to be held accountable yourself.
46:14You understand?
46:15Too many times, again, we tend to feel emasculated.
46:20We tend to feel threatened or attacked when someone points out our bullshit, when someone calls us out on our bullshit.
46:28We go on the fence one time.
46:30Nah, nah, nah.
46:30Make the world of excuses.
46:32It's okay to accept that you're wrong.
46:34You know, fix it.
46:36But in the whole discussion, and I don't know exactly what would have transpired throughout all the conversations,
46:46but one thing that is helping me, and I would suggest that brothers and other men out there consider,
46:55is have a level of spirituality in your life.
46:57That plays a huge role in shaping you, your character.
47:02And that spirituality also helps hold you accountable.
47:08You understand?
47:09And that's where I'd leave it, you know?
47:13Okay.
47:15I didn't tell my brothers, because you all made varied points,
47:19and I'll say the point is that each man brings something different to the table.
47:23So I would say to all our men, find where your strengths are,
47:29and stay within that strength,
47:31so that when we come together, you are the expert at this,
47:34you are the expert at this, I'm the expert at this.
47:36So when we are together, we are really better as brothers.
47:40And what I would take from this is, one, the importance of men meeting,
47:45the importance of men sitting and having intentional, healthy conversations.
47:50That's one big thing.
47:52Also, taking responsibility for who you are.
47:57We're not responsible for our childhood, right?
47:59But we reach a stage in our lives, men,
48:02that we already know what trauma we went through,
48:06what we mother didn't do, what we father didn't do,
48:09what happened to us.
48:09And I'm not discrediting trauma itself,
48:12because some of us had a rough childhood, right?
48:14And a rougher childhood on others.
48:17But you reach a point where you need to take responsibility for yourself as a man.
48:24Let's say, forget, you don't have a wife yet,
48:26you don't have a child yet, et cetera.
48:27Take responsibility for yourself as a man and do as much as you could to be better.
48:33And if you can't do it alone, which most times we can't do it alone, you know?
48:37Lean.
48:37Lean on somebody.
48:39Lean on your brother.
48:40Lean on your friend.
48:41Go to a professional.
48:43Read some books.
48:45All of the above, actually.
48:47Do as much as you can to add the spirituality to it.
48:51Be grounded in something.
48:52Correct.
48:53Add as, do as many things as you can to be better.
48:59A lot to ponder there.
49:01This is the season finale.
49:03Again, the conversation doesn't end.
49:05The episode, the season may end.
49:07But that conversation still continues.
49:09And we'll continue doing that research and having these conversations.
49:13Keep continuing to reach out to us, comment, send us your thoughts.
49:16To bring it into context, you know, men are from Mars, women are from Venus.
49:21It's about time the planets align.
49:23That's what's important.
49:25And in that alignment, as we are better as brothers, what I would want is for myself.
49:32And, you know, show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are.
49:35So, if my friends, I can't tell my friends what I really think and that I'm not for that and I'm against certain behaviors or I'm for that or for certain behaviors in certain ways, then you know what?
49:49You need to part company.
49:51I love you, but I love you from a distance.
49:54You know, so that's, you know, there have been many important nuggets along the way.
49:59It's up on YouTube.
50:01Check it out on CNC3.
50:02And you can see the playlist there for manhood.
50:04A lot of real good topics that we've discussed, you know, mansplaining, toxic masculinity, masculine energy.
50:11And what you might find is initially some of these topics are very feminine topics, as in topics that connect to men versus men and women, men versus women.
50:21But it's not about men versus women.
50:23Female oriented, more than feminine.
50:25What we're trying to achieve here is a conversation.
50:29And it's how we all show up.
50:31But men are s***.
50:33Men are s***.
50:33You know.
50:34And we need to address that.
50:36We need to be better as brothers.
50:38Facts.
50:39And that's the only way that we're going to truly have.
50:42Break cycles.
50:43We need to break cycles.
50:44If you continue to do the same things.
50:47And if something's not working for you, be it in a relationship or in a brotherhood, remove yourself.
50:52That hood might be the hood for you.
50:54And it's where you want to go.
50:57So, Johanse, always a pleasure.
51:00Jess, thanks for joining us.
51:01Thanks for having me.
51:02Niall, and to touch on what Jesse said, spirituality is really important.
51:08So, always remember, God is the boss and everybody else is pretending.
51:11So, see you next time.
51:12See you.
51:13manhood brought to you by jameson natural sources since 19