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00:00Manhood, brought to you by Jameson, natural sources since 1922 and Rage Track.
00:12So this is yet another episode, rather conversation of manhood.
00:17Today's topic is a really, really important one.
00:20One where we discuss how does music affect generations.
00:25So from my generation, generations in the past, to our generation now.
00:31How is that music impacting the way we go about doing things and our safety, more importantly.
00:37And how are men and boys being affected.
00:41So I have a really great cast with us today.
00:44Johan Seaudike, behavior change consultant.
00:47KG, music producer.
00:49And Blaze, media personality.
00:51And myself, Robert.
00:52But I just want to pay attention, just pay some attention to our really swanky set today.
00:57Our really cool vibes.
00:59Yeah, this is what it's made of.
01:03Racetrack, thanks so much.
01:04We love this.
01:05It's very comfortable.
01:06I feel like I am in the seat of my Ferrari.
01:09It's just downstairs, you know.
01:11It gives you the Ferrari feel.
01:13A P-E-E.
01:14A P, a P.
01:16You know what I mean?
01:17So well done to Racetrack.
01:19And, you know, I mean, I want to take it from here immediately, Robert.
01:24Because this, what we're going to discuss is an age-old argument.
01:28This is age-old.
01:29This is from my time when I used to play in parties in the 2000s with cell construction.
01:35And it had radioactive and I have all these different things.
01:37And you used to say, well, you know, look at the kind of music all you're playing.
01:40All you're doing, song killing.
01:41And, you know, so this is an age-old argument.
01:45And now it has returned for the next generation.
01:49You know what I mean?
01:50I just wanted to open with your definition.
01:54Because I always like to make sure that we have some sort of definition to presence the conversation.
01:59So the definition that I would have seen with regards to the music.
02:04And it shows that studies have shown that music has the ability to influence mood, emotions, and even physical actions.
02:12For example, listening to upbeat, energetic music can increase feelings of happiness and motivation
02:17and may encourage a person to be more active and productive.
02:21On the other hand, listening to slow, mellow music can promote relaxation and calmness
02:27and may help to reduce stress and anxiety.
02:31Additionally, the lyrics of a song can also have an impact on a person's behavior,
02:36particularly if they contain messages related to social norms, values, and beliefs.
02:42For instance, songs that promote violence, drug use, or other harmful behaviors
02:47may encourage listeners to engage in those activities.
02:50So overall, music can have a powerful effect on our emotions and behavior.
02:55And it's important to be mindful of the type of music we listen to
02:58and how it may be influencing us, which is the topic of today.
03:06And specifically, we're not listening to slow music.
03:10We're not listening to love music.
03:11We're talking about music that's inciting violence.
03:16And how do we deal with that?
03:19Let's have the discussion as around.
03:22And KG, you know, I know we've had these discussions a couple of times
03:25where the discussion might have been around, well, you listen to music,
03:30as Blaze said initially.
03:32You've listened to music like that in your past.
03:35But what I would say to that is that music back then
03:40would have been about killing our sound, as Blaze mentioned.
03:45It was always dancehall artists.
03:47You know, you have your sound system, and who could play a particular song
03:52or a performance that will kill that?
03:55So it was never about when we hear things like, you know, whether it be Ninja Man, Beanie Man,
04:00and you hear things like, test my sound, kill a sound, me sound at the number one.
04:05All those are references to the music and not to killing someone.
04:10Person directly.
04:11And is it then that because, you know, what we hear is, you know,
04:15that's what that community knows, that environment, that music is part and parcel of that message,
04:22you know, that's the sort of dialogue I'd really like to have here today.
04:25It's not coming down on any one person.
04:27It's a matter of just trying to have that understanding.
04:31I mean, my point of view, as Blaze said, this is a conversation that we've been having for generations, you know.
04:38My point of view on the whole violent music, I mean, it's a broad conversation.
04:44We could go deeper and deeper and, you know, deeper into it.
04:47But I always look at it as the music is a reflection of society,
04:52not society is a reflection of the music.
04:55You know, that is my only argument when it comes to this.
04:58Like, we cannot blame the artists for the crime.
05:02The artists singing about what they already know.
05:05So, like, for instance, I'm a, quote-unquote, Trinibad producer.
05:08You know, people will know me for producing a lot of Trinibad music.
05:13Trinibad is only six years old.
05:15Trinidad had been this country since I was six years old.
05:19So how can we blame the music for what is going on in the country?
05:23I mean, very well know it's been happening.
05:26It's a systematic problem.
05:28It's not a musical problem, you know.
05:30That is how I would look at it, you know.
05:33That's interesting what you say because I was thinking about, as you're saying,
05:38music is imitate society.
05:40So let's say, you know, the saying, art imitates life.
05:45And I was thinking, does life imitate art?
05:48And that's kind of the argument, like the chicken and the egg.
05:50Which one comes first, right?
05:52And we may not ever get that exact answer.
05:57So I think it's really understanding what influence music really has on society.
06:03Because we know for sure, let's go with research.
06:06But even personally, all of us has been influenced by some sort of music.
06:10Right?
06:10From a child, right?
06:12Even a teenager.
06:14When we hear a song, most times if it's a song that resonates with us, we could complete the lyrics.
06:19Even if we don't actively say it with our mouth, it's in our brain.
06:22And then we know music instills some sort of emotion.
06:26So you feel good.
06:26Sometimes you feel angry.
06:28You feel something.
06:29So once there's a, and human behavior is thought into feeling, into action.
06:35And once we get that connection, it develops and creates a paradigm.
06:39And if you have it enough times, it will create a habit or behavior.
06:44So we know for sure, we know for sure, whether it is research or even personal, that it affects.
06:49So therefore now, we have to figure out if it's the responsibility,
06:55because I hear that often, it's the responsibility of the artist to say things that right, quote-unquote,
07:03or whoever decides right for society.
07:05Or, which is sometimes my experience of life, I want to sing about that.
07:09I want to express that.
07:10Whether it is a grimy way, it's a happy way, it's whatever it is.
07:15So is us discussing who responsibility, quote-unquote, this, and even us as men,
07:22how we are, our role as men in terms of the music and society.
07:28And, you know, I hear in, I hear in this, and, you know, I have been in the middle of this from ever since.
07:36Because people will say, well, you know, Blaze always, y'all are announcers and they always DJs always playing that type of music.
07:43You know what I mean?
07:44And I always say, I listen to it too.
07:48Because growing up, we listened to violent music.
07:52Bounty Killer didn't sing Kumbaya.
07:54You know, Ninja Man himself, he sing badness right through that.
08:00That's how he made his money.
08:01I think he created it.
08:02Yeah, he was part of that.
08:05Yeah, that type of music.
08:05And many people who we play that type of music and we listen to that type of music, we never turn it into action.
08:15You understand?
08:16So there is a point that we need to draw and understand, well, okay, I could listen to the music, but I am responsible for my life, you know.
08:25So if a song tells me, if the new song is Jump Off A Cliff, Jump Off A Cliff, Jump Off A Cliff, Jump Off A Cliff.
08:31And I really like Jump Off A Cliff.
08:32I like the melody.
08:33It's real nice.
08:36I like the voices.
08:36So I'm just supposed to just jump off a cliff?
08:40You know, it's something too where we as well, we have to know, yes, this is happening, but we need to take responsibility for ourselves.
08:51For ourselves.
08:51Correct.
08:51We have to do that because we can't just let things slide and say, well, I did it because of the music.
08:57But I have a question, though, like, do we all believe that a song can influence, let's just say, for example, this is another opinion of mine, right?
09:08Another argument I have with a lot of people.
09:10I don't think a song, let me say, Batman music, as they call it.
09:15I don't think a song could turn a youth into a Batman.
09:20Meaning, you're bad, you're bad.
09:23And as we have said, he has no belly.
09:26Like we have tell people these things from since we were young.
09:28He has no belly.
09:29He can't hit nobody.
09:30He can't shoot nobody.
09:32Because it's not music, don't influence.
09:36But how I look at it, I never see a youth grow up as a good youth, you know, good, good youth to heart and listen to our vibes cartel and turn a murderer.
09:47Now, he might feel he bad, you know, he might go in the party and throw up gun sign, he might, little aspects of it might be there.
09:53But to say that the music is creating monsters, the monsters are already there, with or without the music.
10:00You could take off the dancehall music and it will always have criminals.
10:04Is it amplifying certain things?
10:07Like, as I say, I'm on my going to a party and feel he bad.
10:10You know, like the lifestyle, the dress code, the way he might talk, the way he might wear pants.
10:16But is it really, you know, not boy.
10:20But KG, I was discussing this.
10:22I think I'd mention it to Blaise, where when someone says, when someone says, you know, he feel he bad.
10:29If I pick up a gun or a bottle or whatever, or encourage somebody, at what point do you say, I feel he bad?
10:37You're bad.
10:38If you do the action or you're even thinking the thoughts.
10:42Well, I say some of them not even doing the action.
10:44They're just listening to the music.
10:46But the people who are doing the action, the people who are doing the murders and doing the kidnappings, do you all really believe that it's music?
10:52Have these people doing these things?
10:54But the music, the music might be playing a part.
10:56But if I am there and say, for example, you're drinking Hennessy or, you know, you're all charged up.
11:02I remember growing up with music like ACDC and Metallica and Kiss, Night in Satanic Service, and all these sort of real, what was it called, acid rock or hard rock.
11:14Right.
11:14You know, it would stir you in, put you into a frenzy.
11:18So it's not just the music, but it's part and parcel of that environment.
11:23So, for example, I went to Redemption.
11:26And I must note that Bujo Banton didn't sing, even though the crowd may have called for it, songs like Bombay.
11:34But he can't.
11:35You know?
11:36He can't.
11:37He can't.
11:38If he could have, he probably might have.
11:40Right.
11:40But he can't.
11:40But so the music, he didn't perform certain songs.
11:46And I was hoping that there was a changed environment, but a change of lifestyle.
11:49But if you're saying it simply can't, well, the point is that he didn't sing it.
11:53But there was music that I grew up on Bujo Banton.
11:58So hearing that music in itself and, you know, people, let's say the little smells around and things like that.
12:05You know, the aromas.
12:06Romancing your nose.
12:07You know, the romancing your nose.
12:09The environment here in Bujo.
12:11And, of course, these artists who came out, they sounded just like, you know, they have no auto-tunes or lip-syncing.
12:17They're just like it.
12:19And it put me into, like, you know, they say, do I feel dread to be Rasta?
12:23You know, I felt, you know, I felt at one.
12:28I also did a quick interview with Luciano.
12:32And we took a photo afterwards and I did the sign.
12:38And I got some backlash for it on social media because people said, boy, there's a Rasta-Farian sign.
12:43How are you going up with that?
12:44You know, Rasta, one thing.
12:45And I said, well, what's the issue here?
12:47So, you heard about, you know, they don't eat meat.
12:52You know, they mightn't be on, you know, into certain.
12:54On folly.
12:55On, you know, things like that.
12:57And one of the other things was that they're not on, you know, it was their understanding that they're not on Christianity.
13:04Now, I don't know enough about Rasta-Farian to make that judgment.
13:08But to me, it was a connection.
13:10It was a vibe.
13:11You was feeling it.
13:12This too.
13:13Yeah, this is Luciano, the messenger.
13:18But, Johansi, let me ask.
13:19I mean, you're coming from a place.
13:22You have a point.
13:23A studied place.
13:24All right.
13:24And I want to ask you this, right?
13:27Do you think, in terms of the music, as Robert was talking about, do you think the environment also would contribute?
13:33So, yes.
13:34So, you said something before and KD said something before.
13:37And everything linked, right?
13:38Before you're saying, we grew up listening to Bounty Killer.
13:41And he's not on Kumbaya music.
13:43And you use the word, it never made us do something negative, right?
13:47And I would give the caveat, not everybody.
13:51Because I remember I listened to Bounty Killer and a lot of us in school, right?
13:54And most of us, it didn't do anything to us.
13:57But some men, it had them a little violent.
14:00Some men, they got aggressive.
14:01Even some men who we didn't think had it in them.
14:04Right.
14:05But got aggressive.
14:07Scrape a bottle.
14:08Some think so, right?
14:10And then, KG, you're saying, you never see the music change somebody who typically grew up good.
14:16I never really.
14:17Into a bad man.
14:18If he did change, music was least of what we think changed that person.
14:25Well, let me say, we don't know.
14:27But what the caveat is, is that you didn't change or a lot of us didn't change because of the values that we grew up with.
14:33Correct.
14:34And that has something to do with our parenting and in our environment also.
14:38So, the susceptibility to being influenced may have been lower for us because of how we grew up.
14:47So, I'm putting that factor into it because even what you're asking me about the environment.
14:52Because the strength and the resiliency here is important.
14:57Now, what I've noticed since I was a child to know is the resiliency, the mental resiliency of the youth has dropped significantly.
15:07So, if we're using that correlation with the music, because let's say there's always music that wasn't perfectly positive, right?
15:16Whether it is love songs, right?
15:18It had some real raunchy love songs back in the day, right?
15:21And even some violent music, whether it is, we want to call it modern or not.
15:26But back in the day, the susceptibility was less.
15:30So, now, I think even putting that in the mix, why it is now even the youth are more susceptible.
15:37So, art imitates life.
15:39So, we see in the drug use, we see in the gangster, we see in the murders, right?
15:43That is evident.
15:44But now, the youth, and I've noticed even, and just quick, back in the day when Ludacris had come out with the song, throw them bows, right?
15:54I was seeing people hitting people's elbows.
15:56And I was like, but why are they doing that?
15:58I hear what Ludacris, and I understand the freedom and the wildness of it.
16:02But not necessarily, it will still mean to actually hit somebody's elbow.
16:05But I noticed people, they were hitting people's elbow.
16:08So, I noticed it had a certain degree.
16:11Soka, pick up something, anything.
16:12The whole thing, Toro, all of these things are to get you to do a certain action.
16:17Right.
16:18So, I am saying that the music plays a part.
16:21Yes, you're still responsible for your actions ultimately.
16:24But the music, people look at some of these artists as mentors, as idols.
16:29And therefore, they must be a responsibility.
16:31But I want us to take a pause there and come back with that, with some further thoughts on that.
16:42So, this is Manhood.
16:50And what we're discussing is how does music impact our generations?
16:56And some of the thoughts that we had, some differing in terms of does music actually impact someone to be bad?
17:03Or is it that they were bad already?
17:06And some of the concerns I would have expressed, and of course, you know, Johansi and Blaze Takeji would have been around the sense of that it has, it does have some sort of additive.
17:24Or it does impact in certain ways.
17:27As I mentioned, you know, listening to rock or listening to certain music.
17:30And Johansi, you made a point before about some people may have, like I said, in my day it was scrape a bottle.
17:37Now it's a gun.
17:39Listening to certain bits of music, there may be a few.
17:42But the few would have, maybe as to what you said, Keiji, might have already been bad.
17:47I would like to say that even though we recognize that it must have an impact, in the same way the person has a responsibility to what they're listening to, to not act.
18:00But the music that somebody's producing, you know that you produce it with certain elements in there that are going to get me, going to play on my many senses, be it a woman doing, you know, a clap and things like that, you know.
18:14And all of these different things.
18:15There's a lot of sexual, there's a lot of sexual stuff in there, you know.
18:20Jit Blazer, you know, I'd say.
18:22Clap hands.
18:23And so when I see that, and I'm seeing all these signs, I would just like to present, when I was growing up, one, there was also the fact that you didn't have access to firearms like you have now.
18:37It wasn't as readily available and in your face as you're seeing now.
18:42The other thing is, I'm one of those that, even though I love the music, even today, only when certain, like coming to this show, or even friends before would mention certain things about the lyrics, that I recognize what the lyrics were.
18:55To me, I just enjoyed, I enjoyed the beat and the vibes and the feeling it gave me, as opposed to really understanding what specifically they were saying.
19:04So even though there were areas like Ninja Man might have been really talking about, you know, killing a man, and now we see maybe some other, you know, other artists as you go along, very similar to Triniband maybe in Jamaica, speaking specifically about killing someone.
19:22To me, it was just about killing a song man, as in, you know, winning a clash.
19:26And I wasn't aware of maybe some of the other instances, like, you know, it was against a person's sexuality.
19:33It was just me enjoying the music, and yes, singing along to the music.
19:37And so, is it then, I feel like I'm sort of rambling on, well, you know, it happens.
19:45As usual.
19:46Yeah, it's our podcast.
19:47We're allowed to talk, right?
19:48That's what we're here to do.
19:49We talk any things that come to your mind and talk as plainly and honestly as it comes to our mind.
19:53And in this particular instance, as we're speaking about Triniband, not to say that Triniband is the only music that incites violence in many other genres.
20:02Because I'm saying that, is Triniband simply part and parcel of what they see, is what they sing about?
20:10Of course.
20:10So, like, I have so much arguments with a lot of people, you know, who probably didn't come from certain backgrounds or whatnot.
20:19So, they didn't really see what I would see, you know.
20:23I just call Triniband music self-defense music, you know, like when you listen to lyrics closely, not just listen to words, but listen to what they are saying.
20:34Somebody might say, if our boy violates, you know, if our boy violates, we will do this, you know.
20:41So, most of the lyrics is like self-defense lyrics.
20:44Why I say self-defense is because growing up in these communities is a certain type of culture, you know.
20:49The life that these youths live in is not the same life that a youth who grew up in a middle-class home or an upscale home, you know.
20:57They live in amongst envy, greed, poverty.
21:02So many different problems going on in these areas.
21:06And, like, for me, for instance, right, I'll give a story.
21:11When I was younger, I went to St. Joseph College.
21:15Well, I passed for St. Joseph College.
21:17And I never knew where her school was.
21:19I didn't know anything about her school.
21:21And I didn't want to go to her school.
21:22I wanted to go to CRC or CIC or, you know, something where I could play intercal and be a good youth, basically, you know.
21:29And I went to the school.
21:30And the first day I went to the school, the first, first day I went to the school, a man bashing a man's head on a wall.
21:38So, I see in this form one, first day, I come from a private primary school, everything good.
21:43Parents know how going over the chair and proper thing.
21:46And this school now was more violent.
21:48So, it was like a shock to me, you know, like, what kind of madness is this?
21:52And I remember going home and telling my mother, mommy, the school mad.
21:56I don't want to go back to that school.
21:58But she's just thinking, I'm just talking, you know, like, I mean, you want to go back to the school.
22:02But I know that school mad.
22:04So, she, basically, she never take more to the school.
22:08So, form one, form two, I go into the school, I get bullied, men take in my money.
22:12It's all kind of thing going on.
22:14Form three, I decide I fed up.
22:17And as a safety care, I beat them, join them.
22:19And I basically, what I did in the school, I started to defend myself, you know.
22:24And so, I just rock back and be like, I'm a good child.
22:26I don't fight.
22:28You know, I don't curse.
22:29I don't do none of these things.
22:30I started to defend myself.
22:31I started to act like them.
22:33Because if I didn't act like them, every day I go into school, people hitting me, people doing me, all kind of thing.
22:40Fast forward now in today's society we live in today is the same thing.
22:44These youths who live in only come.
22:45Most of the trinity bad youths come from the ghetto.
22:47You know, they come from La Vanda.
22:48They come from beat them, sealants.
22:49They grow up in a place where you can't be no punk.
22:52You can't be no ems.
22:53You can't be soft.
22:54You can't be going to the police and be like, hey, that man, now thief my watch.
22:58Because that make it worse for you.
23:00So they grow up in a society where they have to be like this.
23:04People mightn't look at it like that.
23:06A man might be like, why them sing all that gunting and gunting?
23:09Well, you go and live in the beat them.
23:11The police go in in the beat them and live until with high-powered rifles, three, four jeeps.
23:16Why?
23:17Because they know this is a dangerous community.
23:20So we have to protect ourselves.
23:21If the police officers could protect themselves, we're not supposed to protect themselves.
23:26KG, who known as this producer and some of the people envying him because he produced himself.
23:33I'm supposed to not protect myself.
23:36I'm supposed to go to the law and wait for them to protect me.
23:39So this is how these youths see things.
23:42They see things like, oh, you mightn't understand because they live in a nice house and everything good.
23:48But we live in a place where I can walk out my yard and shoot me for my jean.
23:53So I have to protect myself.
23:55And through that protection now, it just creates, it's not right, but it is real.
24:02And it just creates a type of energy now where the youths and them believe that this is the life.
24:06And this is just how the thing's set.
24:08You know, like I have friends that they're able to go to carnival fets normal.
24:13You know, they go in fets and they're whining and they're drinking and they're drunk in the party.
24:17Some of these ghetto youths don't even know about that kind of life.
24:20Because in their head, every time we go out there, there's some kind of madness now.
24:25Because this is what we know.
24:26So we have to protect ourselves.
24:28And that's the only thing they know.
24:29So when they go in the studio now, they sing this kind of music.
24:31And the people who don't know about their life, they're just looking at it as violent music.
24:35But it's our culture.
24:36It's our lifestyle.
24:37It's something that they grew up from.
24:39Inception, it's all we know.
24:41And is there hope?
24:44How do we reach those young men?
24:46By supporting them instead of fighting them.
24:50You know, like I'd always be like, Trinibad was like an opportunity for the youths and them to do something.
24:56Regardless of what they were singing about, it was an opportunity for them to just make a change within the community.
25:02Because I'd have so many opportunities in the ghetto now.
25:05Like so many youths want to be singers and producers and videographers and graphic artists.
25:10And they want to be in the industry through Trinibad now.
25:14You know, but I have a lot of unfortunate situations in the Trinibad.
25:18A lot of youths die and whatnot.
25:20And it gives the music a bad name.
25:22Not realizing, as I say, a criminal is a criminal.
25:26Regardless if you are singing or not.
25:28If you're doing wrong things in your life, people will kill you.
25:31Nobody ain't going to kill no artist because he's singing gunman music.
25:35They're going to kill you because you're singing it and doing it in the real life.
25:39It's a lifestyle these youths running down now.
25:42And I think that is the only problem.
25:43It's not necessarily the music because the Jamaican artists and them have been singing the gunman music for years.
25:48And none of them ain't getting shoot.
25:50So we had to ask ourselves, how come they ain't getting shoot?
25:53And they create the gunman dance hall.
25:56How come we getting shoot?
25:57Because this is a problem in Trinidad that's been happening.
26:01The murder rate been out of control since Abu Bakr days.
26:05It's, you know, so I guess we just had to continue supporting the youth and, I mean.
26:11KG, I appreciate your sharing your story because I think that more artists should be able to share their story to give context to the music.
26:22Because even outside of Trinidad music, when listening to other types of music, like we say, even rap, old school music, many times when you hear the story of the artist is born out of some kind of pain.
26:35Correct.
26:36Right?
26:36Even Eminem, if you remember Eminem music, right?
26:39It's out of some kind of pain.
26:41And the truth is, none of us have a perfect life.
26:43All of us have something painful that we went through that we also express in our art and whatever we do.
26:49Because even for myself in counseling, it's because of how I grew up.
26:53Right?
26:54And one, having a platform, and even as men, this is something that we could consider, having a platform where the artist could be able to speak.
27:02So the same audience, whether they are susceptible to the influence or not, they could hear your story and be able to understand the context.
27:12And also, I want to say the solutions part of it.
27:17Because in the music, yes, we might express the pain of it.
27:21But even how I approach my stuff is based on solution base or solution focus.
27:27Because the point is, if you come into therapy at the end of the day, you want some kind of solution at the end.
27:32So even in the expression of the music is maybe the approach now could be something with a solution versus just what it is.
27:41Because even though the music and the approach may have stayed the same, that could be erroneous because nothing stays the same.
27:48So if the approach of music before was different, we're in a new time now.
27:52So maybe approaching music could be different because before, music videos even wasn't a thing.
27:57Usually we hear it, right?
27:59So we hear it and we come up with our own interpretations based on our values, et cetera.
28:04But now we have music videos.
28:05So now that brings out even a certain degree of realness state.
28:08So even if I didn't understand what he was saying before, I might not understand now, but I could see.
28:13So sometimes all I could do is imitate the action and to understand the impact of it.
28:17So I'm real happy that you share a story and I even encourage that.
28:21Even more than I would encourage the approach to be a little different because at the end of the day, I think this could be my utopian view.
28:28But the point of anything we're doing, even manhood, is solution based, is to make things better.
28:35And if we're going by stats, if we notice things not getting better, then we should do something different.
28:40I agree as well.
28:44And I also want to add to that in terms of music, what I think is happening with Trinibad.
28:53I like to say Trinibad, but it is what it is.
28:56But I think it's real.
29:00Now, when we used to listen to Jamaican music, what they were speaking about and the areas and the people and the gangs,
29:09the Rima and the jungle, and we've always heard of these things, we didn't know it.
29:15We didn't know it.
29:16There's no connection.
29:17But when I hear, or when someone hears someone singing about a gangster here and an area here,
29:26like I remember, I was hearing a Trinibad song a few years ago, and he said,
29:31if you're a thing, we go meet you outside C3 and lick off your head.
29:36And I could, I know where C3 is.
29:38Rebel 6.
29:39Yeah, Rebel 6.
29:41I know where it is.
29:42So immediately it hit me different now than if they say, well, if we catch you outside Montego Bay,
29:50I don't really know where that is.
29:52So I just sing any song now.
29:54You know, so that's why.
29:55It's not in your garden, so it's okay.
29:56Right.
29:57But now I think that gives the movement a more realness.
30:02And as KG said, remember, they're singing about real things.
30:05They're not singing about fake things, you know.
30:08And as I said too, music is a reflection of the life.
30:10Of the life.
30:11So Jamaica, like growing up, I always knew Jamaica was a dangerous place.
30:15Regardless how nice it was, you always knew because of shutters and all these things you're watching.
30:20Yeah, there was movies.
30:21Like they are painting the real picture of where they are from.
30:25Trinidad now is a kind of fake island where we used to always project this carnival thing
30:31and this steel band thing when people die in human trafficking, drugs all over the place.
30:37The place took Trinidad.
30:39Trinidad need to fix a lot of things, right?
30:41But coming up, they never advertised that to the people.
30:45We always try to make it seem like now, come down for the carnival.
30:48We never exposed the underbelly.
30:49Never.
30:50We hide it.
30:51We hide it for years.
30:53And Trinidad is literally the first time we literally say, look at what's happening.
30:59And I've been real.
31:00Since Trinidad was created, everybody know what's going on now.
31:05All I didn't know was the boss's name and who's the boss in beta, man, who's the boss here.
31:09Nobody didn't know these things.
31:11Now everybody know.
31:13Let me just ask one question.
31:15You think, though, in terms of the, as Johansi was saying, in terms of the approach of the music.
31:23I mean, we're seeing that people dying, yes.
31:27But there are people who are posing.
31:30You don't think that there are men who are bad men.
31:33You don't think there are bad men posing as artists.
31:36Definitely.
31:37Because that is why some of the things happening.
31:39Die where they're dying.
31:40Die where they're dying.
31:40These are men posing as artists.
31:42They're not really artists, you know.
31:43They don't really love music.
31:45They're just bad men and they get the rhyme.
31:47Correct.
31:47So that and all is something we need to also look at.
31:50Yeah, yeah.
31:52That we need to look at.
31:53That is the problem.
31:54And I want us, KG, to further ventilate and discuss that point.
32:02We're just taking a pause.
32:04And that really is a good topic.
32:07Are we really still living in sweet D&T?
32:21Hey, friends.
32:21Welcome back to Manhunt.
32:23And we're all here.
32:24And we've gotten to a lot of great discussion from different forums and so on.
32:29And we continue here on CNC3.
32:32And, I mean, I want to continue where I left off, KG, where I was making the point.
32:38And I observed because, you know, you're looking at current affairs.
32:41I work on an urban station.
32:44And, you know, you're looking to these things.
32:45And you're hearing a lot of death, destruction, threats, everything around the Trinibad music.
32:51And you're looking at men who may be, quote, unquote, gangsters or bad men.
32:58And they want to sing.
32:59So, they bring in that ill repute into the thing, into your session.
33:07Yeah.
33:08And that is the problem.
33:09That is, like, my only problem.
33:10Like, I did a video a couple of days ago that went extremely viral on the internet because of the things I was saying.
33:17A lot of people didn't like what I was saying.
33:18I was saying, like, the so-called bosses that we look up to in these communities.
33:26And, like, they're not really doing anything or whatever.
33:28But also, I was saying that a lot of men coming into the industry to amplify the wrong that you're already doing in the life.
33:38And that is why you're seeing so much Trinibad youths dying because the ones that are dying is not necessarily artists.
33:44You know, they are gangsters that see a lane.
33:47Because, I mean, if you have all the guns already and you have all the chains and you have everything that the Trinibad industry...
33:54They love.
33:54They love.
33:55Just go in a studio and sing a song, you know, Stan?
33:58And I guess that is the problem that is going on in the industry right now that I don't really agree with, you know?
34:03Lead the artist to be artist.
34:05Lead the bad man to be bad man, you know?
34:07Yeah.
34:08Well, KG, truth is an important thing.
34:12Really?
34:12And I like how you said, you know, that we may have been hiding things as a nation, right?
34:19And you highlighted the word underbelly.
34:21And the only way for us to even solve anything is to understand the truth of it.
34:26The truth, yeah.
34:26And after exposing the truth now is where the solutions come.
34:33And to even take the courage to want to expose the truth puts yourself under the fire.
34:42And I believe, and that's my opinion, is that a man, that's the role of a man.
34:47Each one of us have a certain skill set, a responsibility, even a certain power or influence over a certain part of society
34:53that we're responsible for and that DSA and those of you who are familiar with Jordan Peterson.
35:00Jordan Peterson say a man should be able to die for whatever he believes in.
35:05So if it is your role or the role of Trinibad in its purest form is to expose the truth of it,
35:15then it may sound a little morbid, but we ought to be willing to die for it.
35:19And that's how any change.
35:22Now I'm not saying you should die for it, you know, or that it's okay to die for it,
35:27but being willing to die for it because some of the opinions you're sharing many people wouldn't like.
35:32And you'll put yourself under disrepute, danger, even now, even actual threat to your life.
35:37And even us as men here, we're speaking, the point is for us to speak honestly.
35:42And we may be coming under some kind of backlash because somebody disaggregated.
35:45But the point is if you're committed to something and even inspiring the youths
35:53because the youths have a truth they want to also disseminate.
35:58And for us to even, even as elders, because we're older, for us to even help them,
36:02we have to understand what the truth of things and understand it.
36:05So I appreciate it.
36:06And I will say the thing, and I appreciate you, you're saying the story.
36:09And if now, and as Robert here said before, adding the element now of, one, solutions.
36:16Two, if we know that there are elements that bring in the music to disrepute,
36:22it's to expose it.
36:24And I'm saying that with a little apprehension, but also with conviction,
36:29because how else will you change things?
36:32If you ask the question, if TNT is still sweet?
36:36I think our rating went down on the happiest nation, right?
36:40And the truth is, is that we, a lot of us, and this is from almost 10, 12 years
36:47doing this field of psychology, counseling, behavior change in Trinidad,
36:52is that we tend to go from carnival to Christmas.
36:56That is the drug.
36:57Carnival to Christmas.
36:58Carnival to Christmas.
36:59And even if I go statistically, when we're not in carnival season,
37:05there's a high influx of clients coming for help.
37:07As soon as carnival and Christmas come, clients go down because now we have the drug.
37:12And it was interesting.
37:14I remember one year, Ash Wednesday morning, I got a call 7 a.m.,
37:19somebody ready for a session, because they already get the drug and the high of carnival
37:23and Christmas.
37:24You come down.
37:25Right.
37:26And now they commentate.
37:27So I believe it's really important for us to see the truth of our nation,
37:32because the only way for us to really reach where we want to be, right?
37:36Vision 2020, Vision 2030, or wherever we want to go is to expose the truth of things.
37:42I want to just touch on something you said there, Johanse.
37:47And I want to presence two things.
37:53Based on some feedback that we've seen on, you know, a couple of the episodes that have been shown already,
37:59or conversations, rather, that we've had with manhood.
38:01I want to presence, first off, when we discuss what it takes to be a man,
38:07we're not saying that a man has to be what may be considered a manly man, you know,
38:12testosterone, high end is good in sports, you know, plenty of girls, all of this.
38:17A man, as we discussed, and we want to define it, is based on your value system.
38:23And being that man is based on having values that are accepted by society,
38:29and more importantly, the person which you have those interactions with,
38:33that you leave the room better than you found it.
38:36And that is what we, I think, from my perspective, we determine to be a man.
38:40And so when we go on values and our responsibilities,
38:44the second thing I want to presence is that we are not in any way trying to undermine
38:50or stop the movement of Trinibad, or is it, is that, that's the name of the genre, right?
38:57It's called Trinibad.
39:00And even that may need to change at some point, because the fact that you call it Trinibad,
39:04you've already put that negative connotation on it.
39:07Well, I mean, I mean, it's Trinibad, I call it Trinibad, like we grew up saying,
39:09that car is real bad, that shoe is real bad.
39:11Right, now I understand, so Trinibad in that sense.
39:13So it's really Trinibad.
39:14So it's Trinibad.
39:15So if you say something, so like in my growing up, we would say, that real sick.
39:20Correct, correct.
39:21So therefore, again, as even Johanse was speaking about, maybe KG, you as far as I am aware,
39:31the best or the number one producer of that music, the person everybody goes to,
39:37that we meet people where they're at and have that understanding of,
39:42in the same way like I was just educated and the person's listening on here,
39:45now educated as to what you mean by bad, as opposed to a bad man.
39:49Correct.
39:50And we're not in any way trying to cry down the music because, you know,
39:56I've listened to a couple of tunes and there is certainly potential and the beat and all the rest of it.
40:02What I'm saying to you is right now, when we were growing up, the, I'm still growing up,
40:08the area is that, as Blaise mentioned, we are not, I didn't know those areas or I wasn't in the face of crime.
40:17The underbelly, as we put it, was hidden.
40:20And so the music was just about vibes.
40:23So even though the lyrics might have been bad meaning bad, not bad meaning good, it was still unknown to me.
40:32And I'm saying, but now, they always say meet people where they're at.
40:37And with the fear that we are going through now of crime and gun mounting and any number could play,
40:44it's like a lottery right now, that you hearing that music is just going to, it is not in any way giving me pleasure.
40:52And it seems like what we're doing is further dividing the artist from the audience in terms of the audience you may then want to get to
41:00so that it may be played on radio stations.
41:04But that's not because no sponsor or no person listening on is going to really feel good hearing that music,
41:11knowing that, hey, I now hear about three man get shoot.
41:15So I'm saying that could we look at maybe recognizing that, acknowledging that,
41:23and even somehow explaining more, as you mentioned, you all discussed it again,
41:28it was another educating moment for me, which is that it's a story.
41:32But to me, I look at the video and it just comes across as opposed to them telling the story of what they see and what they know.
41:38It seems as if they're saying, I am going to do this to you, and all these signs like that.
41:44I can say one thing too.
41:45Of course, yeah.
41:47Also, people need to understand that everything is stages.
41:50You know, like we grew up listening to Jay-Z, 50, all these people,
41:54and they start singing a certain type of music when there was any hood.
41:59And then they became successful and the music changed.
42:03So that was it, like we have to support the youths.
42:06Agreed.
42:06Our youth will always start singing what you know.
42:09All I know is this.
42:11So I will say, I never been to Hyatt.
42:13I never been to America.
42:14I never been to...
42:15So they can't sing about these things.
42:17They don't know anything about these things.
42:18All they can sing about is what they see in the community.
42:21The more we support them, the bigger they will get.
42:22The more the radio stations continue supporting them and stop pushing the narrative of,
42:26hey, them singing gunman music, because the reality is all of us listen to gunman music.
42:31So we just stop fighting on the local youths because, for example, Prince Wani,
42:35he is like the mecca of Trinidad.
42:38He start the hype.
42:40You know, he come out with the big up the Bs and big up the Cs.
42:43But today, he not really own that.
42:46You know, he more doing collabs with Kodak Black.
42:49And, you know, he doing bigger things, you know.
42:52Because he came out.
42:54Yeah.
42:55And the reason why he got so big is because we had the support of Trinidad at that particular time.
43:01Before all the deaths had to happen and people, as you say, people had to get scared and sort of pull away.
43:06And we had the support.
43:07So we was getting the 10 million views and 15 million views.
43:10And because of that support, we were literally as big as the Jamaicans.
43:16So the Jamaicans was coming to Trinidad to collab with us because they was looking at Trinidad as the new dancehall hype.
43:23Then the killings started to happen and whatnot and the people started to divide.
43:27And now it kind of come back down.
43:29So how do we get it to, as we have Calypso and we have Soka, how do we get that to be another genre that globally people will want to?
43:38Support.
43:38As I say, like, support.
43:40Like, I personally do not like when we try to fight them down.
43:45Like, we try to bring down the name.
43:47Like, if we do not listen to this music internationally, why is it a problem?
43:52As Blaise say, is it because it's close?
43:54That is why we don't want to support it because it's close.
43:59It could be, one, because it's close because we generally humans, let me know Trinidad, isn't it?
44:07A lot of times we're uncomfortable when our shortcomings get exposed enough.
44:12And not to say even exposed privately because sometimes we is lighter ourselves, but especially publicly, right?
44:20And that's what I was saying.
44:21I appreciate it.
44:23So you would have a backtrack.
44:24Nah, I don't know anything about that, but you're listening to the music, right?
44:28So that's one.
44:30Two, you're saying in terms of support, right?
44:33And that's why I'm glad you're even on this forum because based on the feedback thus far, even from the area of the first conversation that we've had, there are lots of people's support.
44:43Even on my way here, some people stop me and say, you know what, I didn't even know men this thing, these things.
44:48I didn't even know men going through these things.
44:50And of course, each man here is in a different field.
44:53So in your field, the opportunity for you to be able to tell a story again and I go in, each artist, now that we're in an age where we have podcasts, we have YouTube, telling a story could be even part of your format now so that people understand it.
45:08And then if I go back, I remember I was analyzing, this might sound a little strange, but I used to analyze things a long time, right?
45:14So I was analyzing Sizzler music at that time.
45:17And from when he went to Black Woman and Child to Pum, Pum, Pum, Pum, Pum, I was wondering, okay, why he did that and even was he impact?
45:25And doing some research, when he was singing the Black Woman and Child type music, the crime rate in Jamaica actually went down.
45:32Yeah, he did.
45:32So there's actually statistical evidence to prove.
45:36Correlation.
45:37Right?
45:38So even understanding that, and even he used Prince, Prince Swanee, even him could also be part of the revolution of change.
45:46He could tell in his story of him, him telling his story because just like Jay-Z, when Jay-Z came with Beyonce, now it's a different type of music here, but they're telling the story, whether it is musically or interview-wise.
45:58I think that's a major problem, the youths in the local industry.
46:03Again, we don't really have much platforms.
46:05Like, when I see this, I was like, this is what we need.
46:08You know, we need more of these things.
46:10The other day, the Fix from Jamaica came down.
46:12I don't know if you all know about the Fix.
46:13That's a Jamaican podcast.
46:15They came down and they interviewed the whole of Trinibad, you know, and they were actually doing a documentary about Trinibad, and they was getting all the key elements in Trinibad, and people was coming and telling the story.
46:27You know, Swanee come and tell them where he come from, hunger, this, that, and, you know, people felt it.
46:33People was like, all right, cool, cool.
46:34Toppy boss came on and he talked about the crime and what's going on.
46:38And so people started to understand a little more, you know, I came out, I say certain things.
46:42So I guess we need, again, we need more support and we need more platforms for the youths, for them to be more creative.
46:51Not just go in a studio, sing a song, play it on YouTube, it's going out there, two man get shoot tomorrow.
46:56No, we need a little more belly, but we need it from people like y'all, you know, people who have that type of influence out there.
47:03Because these are ghetto youths.
47:05These are not, you know, youths that know what they're doing, you know.
47:09These are youths that come last in test.
47:12And as I know I said, they're going to be back of the class, but they get an opportunity to do something.
47:15So we now, who have the mindset, I just try my best because I know, you know, I'm a little more intellectual than them.
47:21You know, I didn't grow up in no beta, no silas, no, my mother and them try to, you know, put a certain foundation for me.
47:28That's why I could speak the way I speak today.
47:31So all the youths in Trinidad, I always sit down with them and I talk to them and I try to mentor them.
47:37And regardless of the gunman music, I try to put some things in their head.
47:40You know, simple things as getting a passport, you know, getting a visa, showing them some things on my phone.
47:46Hey, look where I went.
47:47Look at LA, look at Miami.
47:49You see that way?
47:50To elevate.
47:52Yeah, because they don't know.
47:54And that is something I notice about them.
47:56They literally don't know nothing.
47:57They don't know.
47:58And in the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king and what you focus on is what you see and what's in your environment.
48:04As we said, what they see is what they're singing about.
48:06But it needs to become more of a story of letting us know and exposing that underbelly to everyone to be able for both parties on both sides of the fence to understand and to elevate and to bring Trinidad and Tobago back to where we all want it.
48:22Because we want it to be a safer place.
48:25I don't think they want to be doing what they're doing or be in the environment they're doing.
48:29But we have to make, we have to ensure that we're meeting each other.
48:33And we're not, I remember one friend of mine in doing research said that a lot of persons go into these environments or try to do these givebacks.
48:41But they do it from the position of, guys, all of you just stay where all you are.
48:46Stay there.
48:47So we want to help you enough so you don't come into my environment or my homes.
48:51So you're not doing, your position is still work out of fear.
48:55And you're still, and they, those environments, those communities receive that and they know that.
49:01And therefore you become more and more feral as you go along generation to generation, not understanding maybe what was the, what may have started everything from the embryonic stages of it.
49:12And now as you grow up and you're into those environments, you just become more, you're surviving.
49:17We mightn't see it as surviving because our survival is different.
49:21Their survival is that and they're singing of that.
49:23So they, as you said, most persons might even know what they're singing is of that environment.
49:29To them, it's, this is, this is normal convo.
49:32But I want to personally end, end on that note for me as, as part of my wrap up on this particular conversation of manhood, which I thought was very, very insightful.
49:44And I want to go around the table with everyone having their closing thoughts.
49:49And KG, if you could, you know, you've, you, you normally have these inspirational messages that I know that you send to the community.
49:54If you will do us a solid today as a brother and close off after everyone has gone around the table.
50:00So, um, and, and we'll certainly like to welcome, welcome you back to, to have these conversations as, as we continue.
50:07So, Blaise, your answer, your.
50:10Um, thank you.
50:13Right.
50:14You know, they say knowledge is power.
50:16So, the more we understand, even what Trinibad is, is the more that we could even assist as men.
50:24Iron Chapman, iron, having your, your, your brothers back.
50:28Because, as Robert was saying, I believe that all of us want a better Trinidad and Tobago, a better world for us to live in.
50:34As, as cliched as it may sound, the thing is, I want to be able to walk the street in our gold chain anytime I want because that's what I like.
50:42I want my children to be able to do that.
50:44I want to see your children do it.
50:46Right.
50:46And whatever we could do to better understand it.
50:50Because I'm sure even people listening to this, today's conversation got some new knowledge into what even Trinibad is and understanding your story.
50:59And even now, they could even analyze, even outside of us, how they could help, what solutions are possible.
51:05So, KG, thank you.
51:06And I actually look forward to, to even hearing the story of some of the other artists.
51:11Right, so we could understand exactly how we could help, not just as men, but even as brothers and as, and as citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
51:21And recognizing, Johan say that, they too are our brothers and sisters.
51:27Correct.
51:28We, we, we, we're all part of this.
51:30We're all part of being Trinidad and Tobago.
51:33Please.
51:34Well, the, the thing is, I, I totally agree.
51:37And you know what, I mean, this, this segment, this conversation is far from finished.
51:44Correct.
51:45You know what I mean?
51:45I mean, we could discuss so much more about the elements of the music, the elements of why the music is like that, how it affects people.
51:56I think this is, this is just the tip of the iceberg that, that we're discussing here.
52:01I would encourage to probably have KG on again later on, or bring a partner or something like that and, and see how that would happen.
52:08But we also must, in terms of music, how it affects people, it is age old.
52:14I mean, there's a story we all know about the Pied Piper.
52:16However, that story is a story we grew up with and we saw what the Pied Piper can do.
52:22And that is music, you know, so we have to always be careful, but we as a society and we as people and we as leaders of our homes and so on, we must also take a responsibility to, to look at the youth and the next generation because we are not without fault.
52:40We can't just blame it on the music and say, well, is the music, you know, because we are, we are, you know, we, we are to be better parents.
52:49We have to be better parents.
52:50We have to be better fathers.
52:51We have to be better uncles.
52:53We have to, we have to be better people, you know, because we have to take part of the responsibility too.
53:00Because even when I was in my music phase and I, I like my music phase, I, I always tell the story.
53:06I remember Chaka Dima singing Young Girl Business Control Jamaica and my mother saying, no, no, you understand?
53:16We as parents have to do that too.
53:19So the artists can sing what they want, you know, but we have to also filter.
53:23That is the truth.
53:24You know what I mean?
53:24And the more we filter, they realize, well, they're not really taking to this, you know, this is what we know in here.
53:30When, when Sizzler, when Sizzler was Sizzler in 95 and 96 and thing, I know plenty partners who I grew up with, they turn raster or for the music, you know what I mean?
53:41So we have to be, we have to be careful and we can't just cast blame on the music alone.
53:46We can't just cast blame on the artists and the producers alone.
53:49We also have to be better.
53:51And I'm talking in terms of men, we have to be better men.
53:55And we have to show the example and we have to set the pace and say, this is not what it's supposed to be, but this is the way it's supposed to be.
54:04Correct.
54:04You know what I mean?
54:05So I was really happy because we hear the next side too.
54:08Yes.
54:09It's very important to hear the three sides, you know?
54:12They will always have different sides, you know?
54:14And that was like my, when I started to really push the whole Trinibad movement, that was like my, my whole aim.
54:23I grew up in a country where if I wanted to be an artist, I had to be a soccer artist, but I don't like rum.
54:29I don't like Hudson, you know, like that is me, you know?
54:33So it was hard for me to be creative because I always used to look at it like why my country so boxed in and why we hide in every, like even the reggae all-stars, like they just disappear.
54:43I grew up listening to this music.
54:45I wanted to be a reggae artist.
54:47And as soon as I was the age where I could have been a reggae artist and grew more than luck and thing, the luck of that, you know?
54:54So it was like real stifling.
54:56And I know a lot of creatives could agree as in we feel very stifled as creatives.
55:04You know, we feel like we have to choose one thing to get through in Trinibad.
55:09Or we have to be a certain way to get through.
55:11We have to speak a certain way.
55:13Like I remember the days when we used to have to go on the radio station and we couldn't even talk Trinidad dialect.
55:19But the Jamaicans would go on their radio station and be like, yeah, boy, blood c**t.
55:23And, yeah, you know, me have to go down the road and think.
55:26And people used to look at that as how the artists talk.
55:29But in Trinidad, we had to be like the and the.
55:31You know, because we are so caught up in how it look and what it really is.
55:37My vision was never to promote violent music.
55:40Because I always tell people that Trinidad is not only about violent music.
55:44You have to have a lot of other music in the Trinidad genre.
55:47But, you know, the thing does go.
55:49People love the action thing.
55:50We love the John Wick.
55:51We love the Call of Duty.
55:53We love the Batman music.
55:54We love action thing, you know?
55:56And that is what really sell the Trinidad genre.
55:59But the mission was never to promote violence.
56:02The mission was to promote reality and to promote what is really going on in the inner cities of Trinidad and Tobago.
56:09You know, so thank you for being here.
56:12You know, I appreciate it.
56:14I must say, you know, I always appreciate platforms where I could, you know, just bring the other side to the coin.
56:20You know, so, yeah, man.
56:23Make up all yourself.
56:25Thank you, Gigi.
56:25It was a very, very insightful conversation.
56:31Nothing more to be said on my part, but a lot still to be said on this topic.
56:35So, KG, we certainly want to have you on set again.
56:42I would like to go on a Trinidad set too.
56:44I want to see.
56:45Yeah.
56:46I was like behind the scenes.
56:47And I think that's another thing too.
56:49And it's a love.
56:49It's a love.
56:50That's another thing.
56:51Remember, you'll see it on videos and things, but being early, you get to go and see it now.
56:55To be part of it.
56:56Yeah.
56:57People would look at it and be scared.
56:58Yeah.
56:59I would want to see.
57:00I just feel so safe in these communities.
57:02The only thing that are bringing down these communities is the crime.
57:05You know?
57:05But there's so much love in these communities.
57:07Beatham, see, lots of love.
57:09And there's so much love.
57:10When you go into these communities, you just realize that this is the real life here.
57:13You know?
57:13Families in the road, children playing football, cricket.
57:17It's love.
57:17It's not like how deep, you know?
57:20I could tell you firsthand.
57:22I've been into what people say some of the darkest communities.
57:25Love.
57:26And never had anybody come apart from say, boy, hey, the sportsman, boy.
57:31Yeah.
57:32A matter of fact, people like you would go into these communities and think that they
57:37might want to...
57:38No, they actually appreciate that.
57:40When they see KG come and get a camera, they're happy.
57:43They're going to take my camera.
57:44They want me to put it on and put it on them.
57:46No, I'm saying that my experience has been quite the opposite.
57:48I don't feel fearful.
57:49No, no, no.
57:50I've never gone through even all the back roads and the people talk about.
57:53I'm like, hey, you know, it's a conversation.
57:55I don't feel that way.
57:56But my point is, is that people, there are people that feel that way.
57:59We can't ignore that the violence and crime is happening in Trinidad and Tobago.
58:04And this genre is being perceived as contributing to that.
58:09So the point of the conversation today is it was very good convo and hearing all the sides.
58:14And I'm certainly better off for it is to understand where the vision of the music is
58:20and how we can do better to be able to, you know, to get to that vision, you know, to see that vision.
58:27So once again, you know, good conversation.
58:31Another, another, another really insightful episode of manhood.
58:36Johan say, always a pleasure.
58:37KG, welcome anytime, brother.
58:39And blaze.
58:40I think I remember a time you were fearful somewhere, you know, and you'd call for rescues.
58:46Yeah.
58:47Somewhere.
58:48So that's where the conversation starts.
58:49I'll give all the story.
58:52He was fearful somewhere.
58:53Yeah.
58:53Yeah.
58:53Yeah.
58:54Yeah.
58:54Yeah.
58:54Yeah.
58:54Yeah.
58:54Yeah.
58:55Yeah.
58:55Yeah.
58:56Yeah.
58:57Yeah.
58:57Yeah.
58:57Manhood brought to you by Jameson natural sources since 1922 and racetrack.