The Jeremy Kyle Show 2nd October 2018
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00:00On today's show, Connor is here to finally meet and confront his potential father, Billy.
00:06Who the hell does this bloke think he is?
00:08God's gift, to be honest. I've come through a DNA test, so why is he hiding?
00:12The only thing I've ever had from him is lies, constant lies.
00:17Billy, the only thing you're scared of is the truth, mate.
00:21No, I'm not.
00:21Billy, come out. Nothing's gonna happen. I want you to answer me face to face.
00:26Have you ever tried to show that you want to be a father?
00:30That out of my mind, I'll be hard for, I just couldn't do nothing.
00:34You need to pull your fingers and look, mate, and give your son answers.
00:39Start having a relationship with your son.
00:42The DNA test is not to show that Billy...
00:56Hello, my friends. Good morning and a big, big welcome to the show.
01:07Right, my first guest today, Connor, is here to finally meet and confront,
01:10check that comment, his potential father, Billy.
01:13Now, Connor says that almost 20 years of doubt,
01:16it was he who reached out to Billy on Facebook,
01:19but ever since, he's received nothing but abuse and threats in return.
01:22Connor says he hopes more than anything that DNA proves that Billy today is not his father.
01:28However, he says, do you know what? I am what? 21 years of age.
01:31I've got so many questions. I've done nothing wrong.
01:33We'll meet his mum later.
01:34But he said, this guy has just let me down repeatedly.
01:37Brave young man, Connor, is on the Jeremy Kyle show.
01:40That way.
01:41CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
01:43This will become apparent to people in the audience and at home.
01:53Yeah.
01:54You have been here before.
01:56Yeah.
01:57I think it would be best to say that you were adopted at 18 months.
02:01Yeah.
02:02Your mother is somebody who's quite well known to this show.
02:06I might as well name her right now.
02:08Julie King.
02:11And then we have this guy, Billy, 53, who you believe to be your father.
02:17Let's just look the last time you were on the show.
02:20If you were a bad mum, if you had...
02:23Look your hands up!
02:23I had!
02:24And you're up to what you've done!
02:25I had!
02:26And I had a nervous breakdown!
02:27Shut up and let him talk!
02:30At the end of the day, you should be here!
02:31It's not for him!
02:32It doesn't matter if he's come here to support me...
02:33Yeah, I understand that!
02:34Because I can't stand you!
02:36Well, that's...
02:37Then shut up and shut down the door!
02:39Hold on, didn't your father sign papers and put you up for adoption?
02:42Yes!
02:43Stop having to go with him!
02:44He's trying to get answers out of you!
02:45What I think will always get to at least give him the respect!
02:48No!
02:48Give him the respect!
02:49Listen to me for what's going on!
02:51Give him the respect!
02:52I'll listen to no-one like you!
02:54Why are we doing DNA?
02:55Is Billy his dad?
02:57Because Billy has turned round and said to Craig that he's denying that I'm his child once again.
03:03And your father, actually, if Craig tells you the truth, denied him as well.
03:07Your dad is Billy.
03:09We did a DNA test with Craig.
03:11Billy's his father.
03:12You say they're four brothers.
03:14It's not just my fault, it's your father's fault!
03:16You jumped as much!
03:17Yes, but funnily enough, there's only 50% of them here!
03:21We carried out the DNA test to discover if Craig and Connor share a full sibling relationship.
03:25Sadly, the results were inconclusive.
03:29Well, look at that.
03:30Just bringing it back down a minute.
03:32Julie King's your mum.
03:33Yeah.
03:34We did a DNA test with that boy and it was inconclusive.
03:39And this guy called Billy, who you are told categorically by your mother is your father,
03:44and I'm going to tell everybody here right now, has been kicking off all morning.
03:49He's smirking in the green room at that.
03:51He's telling my producers he's going to do it this way and he's scared to come out here.
03:55He doesn't want you to be his son because you're a violent thug.
03:57Yeah, but if I'm a violent thug though, what does it make him?
04:01Because any threats or anything that were given by me towards him was a reciprocation of his actions towards me.
04:08Let's go back to your story, Connor, because I was fascinated and sympathetic towards you last time.
04:13Growing up, adopted at how old?
04:16We went through the courts at about five, six, I think I was, when it went through the family court.
04:22Do you remember before that, do you remember being at home with Julie?
04:26I don't remember being, the first memory I ever actually had was with my first foster parents that I was with.
04:32Which I think is an important point to make, you're 21 years of age.
04:35Since you and Julie were, in essence, you know, reunited, what's that been like?
04:40Because she was shouting in your face.
04:41No, it's been good, to be honest.
04:43Good.
04:44She's been trying, she's doing what she can to not necessarily make up for time,
04:49but show that she is willing to be a parent, which is more than...
04:53What is she and what are you? We'll talk to her later.
04:54What do you make of this Billy situation?
04:56I don't think in all my time I've ever done the Jeremy Carr show, right?
04:58I've got a bloke here to do a DNA test to find out whether this boy is his.
05:04He's refusing to come on stage.
05:05He said, I'm only prepared to do it on a live link.
05:07I'll run what questions you're going to ask me.
05:10I don't feel secure enough to go out there.
05:12Who the hell does this bloke think he is?
05:14God's gift, to be honest.
05:15To what?
05:16To what?
05:17To everyone, to mankind.
05:19I mean, I don't understand what's the point.
05:21If I wanted to see him on a TV like this, then I'd have stayed at home and I'd have...
05:27What do you want from today?
05:29I want him on the stage, to be honest, because I've come through a DNA test,
05:32so why is he hiding behind the stage?
05:35I'll deal with him in a minute, because it's called the Jeremy Carr show.
05:43I'm more interested in what you want.
05:44You say, when I first contacted him, he didn't even know who I was.
05:47I called him Billy.
05:48He doesn't behave like a dad.
05:49Never has.
05:50Never done anything for you.
05:51No good memories.
05:51The only thing I've ever had from him is lies, constant lies.
05:55Every time we've tried to get him on the show, he's always said,
05:58I'm in hospital, or I can't do this, I can't do that.
06:02Why?
06:03What have you done wrong?
06:05Are you a reminder of his past with the infamous Julie King,
06:07or is he just a complete idiot who thinks he can just ignore stuff?
06:10I don't know.
06:11People will disagree with me and the family,
06:13but I personally think it's because he isn't my dad.
06:16I don't know what's going on in the situation, so I can't say...
06:18You don't think he is your dad?
06:20No.
06:20Why else would he have avoided it for 21 years, doing a DNA test privately?
06:25And do you know what's really interesting, and that's why I want to do it for you?
06:27You've said, my only assumption from the way he's treated me,
06:30and treated me so badly, is that he can't be my father,
06:32because I've done nothing wrong and he completely shuns me.
06:35You are sitting here and you are saying, I would prefer him not to be my father.
06:39Believe this or not, he's saying, he ain't my kid, I would never want him to be my kid, la la la.
06:43So everybody seems to think the same thing.
06:45Yeah, so he's lied then to everybody else when he's been on the show before,
06:50because he's turned round and said he's never once denied me as his child,
06:53and he's just done it there and then.
06:55You say he should have been rolling out the red carpet, he's made no effort.
06:58I actually now hope, OK, that DNA proves he's not my dad.
07:03I'm going to go and apparently, you know, be told how to run my own show.
07:06That ain't going to happen.
07:06You all right?
07:07Yeah.
07:07Top man, give this young man a round of applause.
07:12This would be interesting, wouldn't it?
07:20Who do you think you are?
07:22I've got every right to do.
07:23What, tell my team mate, you're going to do this show,
07:25it's called the Jeremy Gowell Show, yeah?
07:26Jeremy.
07:27And why haven't you been here before?
07:28What do you mean you hope he's not your kid?
07:30I've never denied it.
07:31Oh, so you know he's your kid?
07:33Then why don't you get your backside out there
07:34and do what a dad's supposed to and find out the truth?
07:36Go on, get off your back, sir.
07:38I'm sitting in here.
07:39Frecks and bankrets.
07:40I've got the big man out there.
07:41You're supposed to be the potential father.
07:43I'm not going on the stage.
07:44What, you're scared of that boy, are you?
07:45I'm not going on the stage.
07:47Come on, Billy.
07:47No, I cannot go on the stage.
07:49Why not?
07:50No.
07:50Why?
07:51This time I'll put my foot down.
07:53Sorry.
07:54About what?
07:55Billy, if you're not my dad, why have you come on the show?
07:58Answer the question.
07:59If you're not his dad, why are you here?
08:01I am his dad, but I don't know why I've been brought him.
08:01Then why don't you get out there and prove you're his dad?
08:04He's not made any threats to you.
08:06I've seen the threats you've made to him.
08:07This is ridiculous.
08:08The boy has done nothing wrong.
08:10He needs to know the truth, Billy.
08:12Why, if you believe you're his father,
08:14have we got this whole thing about you telling my team,
08:17I'll do it.
08:18You're not scared of him.
08:19I'm not going on the show.
08:21You're not scared of him at all, are you?
08:22I'm here now, but I'm not going on the stage.
08:24Billy, the only thing you're scared of is the truth, mate.
08:27No, I'm not.
08:28Yeah, you are.
08:29Why were you smirking when I was telling him?
08:30Because he's got answers that I can't answer.
08:32He's got questions he wants to answer me and I can't do.
08:35But the point is...
08:36I wasn't there.
08:37Then say that to him.
08:38I told him.
08:39What questions?
08:40What has he asked you that you can't answer?
08:42Just help me out.
08:43What has he done?
08:43I don't know what he wants to ask me yet.
08:45Well, then why don't we just do that?
08:46There's some questions I can't answer.
08:48I'm just frustrated because this kid, right, has not had the best start in life, right?
08:54An older.
08:54And irrespective of what you and his mother might think or might have done or whatever,
09:00right?
09:00Mm-hmm.
09:01Does he not at 21, Billy?
09:03In a secure environment, hear me out, not out there with everybody giving it large,
09:08but in a secure environment, isn't he...
09:11Doesn't this boy deserve it, right?
09:14Yes.
09:14Then do it for me.
09:15I've got Julie on a live link.
09:16Let's do it after the break.
09:18Security there.
09:18There's not going to be any hassle.
09:19This boy just wants an answer.
09:21I'm not going on the stage.
09:22Billy, come out.
09:23Nothing's going to happen.
09:24I want you to answer me face to face.
09:26I can tell when you're lying, then.
09:29I think you should go out and do that.
09:31You've been absent in his life.
09:33Yeah, I understand that, but I'm not going on the stage.
09:34Well, I'll only bring him here, mate.
09:36So you can go out there or I'll bring him here.
09:38What's it to be?
09:39I'm not going on the stage.
09:40It's got nothing to do with him.
09:41It's to do with the audience, hasn't it?
09:43You don't want to sit in front of an audience?
09:46Because he doesn't make a **** himself in front of everybody.
09:49You think they'll judge you?
09:50Let me tell you something that I want you to think about during the break.
09:54If you think that they will judge you, that's your business.
09:58I suspect in the next three minutes, if you go,
10:02well, I'm on television anywhere and they're going to judge me far worse if I sit there,
10:05but if I'm a man and I go out there and I do what's right for that kid,
10:09even if he isn't mine, they'll judge me in a much better way.
10:11Three minutes to think of it, right back.
10:15Until he's on television.
10:17Is Billy his father?
10:18Yeah.
10:19Yes.
10:22That's the first time I've seen you since you've been grown up, yes.
10:25It's the first time you've seen me since I was 18 months old.
10:28Billy should also get off his backside and give him some answers.
10:32You signed him up for the doctor!
10:34Don't chat, mate!
10:36Are DNA doubts ruining your relationship as an ex refusing to accept paternity?
10:46If you're 18 or over and you'd like to be considered for the show,
10:49email talk at itv.com along with your number.
10:51Text talk plus your name to 63334.
10:54Text costs 25 pence plus one standard rate message.
10:57Or you can call my team today.
10:58It's 09011.
10:59It's 123456.
11:01Calls costs 25 pence plus network access charge.
11:12Very much a good welcome back, Billy.
11:14Come on.
11:15Shall I bring the audience back here as well?
11:17Actors are fired!
11:18Get out on the stage!
11:20Just prove it to your potential son!
11:21I'm not going on the stage.
11:23Get back here, Connor, nice and calmly.
11:26Stevie come as well, because apparently Billy feels...
11:29I don't know.
11:29What do you feel?
11:31What do you feel?
11:32I know what you feel.
11:35You're not scared of him, are you?
11:37You're full of shame, aren't you?
11:41Connor, you sit there.
11:42That's all right, you sit there.
11:43Come on.
11:45Alex, can you go that way?
11:47No, no, I want to see the television screen.
11:50You want to speak to your potential dad with your mum or without your mum?
11:53Without her at first, if that's all right with you.
11:56Yeah, it's OK.
11:56So, quick question for you then, right?
11:59You're saying you don't want to go out on the stage.
12:01No.
12:02And I've already heard from these guys that you have denied me as your son, yeah.
12:07So, why is it when Jeremy's come back here to talk to you, you've turned around and said
12:12you've never denied me?
12:13Because you were quick as a shot to get on that stage for Craig.
12:17So, why is it with me?
12:19Actually, on the last show when I was with Craig, I walked off.
12:22Yeah, you walked off, but you still went on the stage, Billy.
12:25I'm completely different to Craig as well.
12:26Yeah, I know, but this time I'm not going on the stage.
12:29Well, let's forget that.
12:29What is it that you've accused this young boy of being?
12:32Heatherly involved in drugs, yeah?
12:34I've been told he's on drugs.
12:35So, you've been told, as his potential father, you've been told, let me tell you something.
12:38Let me tell you some facts.
12:39I got him to do a drugs test.
12:40Guess what?
12:41Totally clean.
12:42Deal with that.
12:43OK.
12:44See, do you want to know something for me as well?
12:47In 20...
12:47I told you what I meant for.
12:48Come on, find him for yourself.
12:50In 21 years, right?
12:52That you have meant to have been my dad, that handshake is the closest thing you've become,
12:57in my eyes, to being my dad.
12:59That's the first time I've seen you since you've been grown up, yes?
13:02It's the first time you've seen me since I was 18 months old.
13:05You said there were questions that you felt you wouldn't be able to answer from Conor.
13:08Like what?
13:09I'm waiting for someone to hear questions.
13:11Why were we put into care?
13:12I don't know.
13:12Because my mum will quite openly turn around and say that it was because she had a breakdown.
13:18Now, I can believe that from her.
13:20That's what she told me.
13:21Hi, Julie.
13:21Let's get Julie to join the show.
13:23That's what Julie told me.
13:24Julie, you can hear this.
13:26Why was Conor put in care, Jules?
13:28On my side, I actually had a nervous breakdown and they went into temporary care.
13:35After that, I don't know what happened after that.
13:38But I said to Conor, I am willing to find the answers that I don't know with him as well.
13:43But I believe Billy should also get off his backside and give him some answers instead of passing the book over.
13:50Ask your mum, ask your mum all the time.
13:52Absolutely right.
13:53Well, some of the answers I don't know.
13:55Some of them I don't know.
13:56We're not asking for a miracle.
13:58This is one then.
13:59Is he his father?
14:00Is Billy his father?
14:01Yeah.
14:02Yes.
14:04Then where have you been for the 22 years?
14:06Billy is your dad.
14:07Where have you been for the 22 years?
14:09Yes or that?
14:09Because you wouldn't care and I had no contact whatsoever.
14:12It doesn't matter.
14:12It doesn't matter.
14:13Julie was my mum.
14:15She was coming up to the contacts to come and see us.
14:18Have you ever tried to step up?
14:20Have you ever tried to show that you want to be a father?
14:23Has there been any inclination, any desire?
14:26Come on.
14:26Yes or no?
14:28There has in my mind and my heart, but I just couldn't do nothing.
14:32Do you know what?
14:32People get really angry with me and they say about Julie and they go, oh, oh.
14:35At least she's got passion, right?
14:37Has he done anything?
14:38No.
14:39But you were out there saying that she has tried since we reunited.
14:42She's made an effort.
14:43Yeah, she's doing what she can.
14:45You're not doing anything at all.
14:48Billy?
14:50Billy?
14:51I'm listening.
14:52You need to pull your fingers and look at your face and give you strong answers.
14:57Start having a relationship with your son.
14:59And the first question I have got mainly for you, which affects the whole of my life pretty much,
15:04is who signed me over for adoption?
15:07I don't know.
15:07You don't know.
15:08You're sure about that?
15:10Yeah.
15:10Julie, who did?
15:11You had a nervous breakdown.
15:12Who signed him over?
15:15Involuntary care.
15:15You two mounted, do you believe me?
15:16I had the court welfare officer out at one stage talking to me.
15:21I'm in a rush, man.
15:22You signed him off for adoption.
15:24Go chat, mate.
15:27Julie, calm down.
15:28You're not well.
15:28There's passion in her.
15:29Say what you want, and I've said plenty.
15:31Right?
15:31She ain't well.
15:32That's why she's not here.
15:33Yeah.
15:33But she has stepped up.
15:35Billy, it's like you're this block of nothing.
15:39Why are you not allowing the truth to come out?
15:42Are you embarrassed by the fact that you've done nothing?
15:45Are you ashamed by the fact that you're...
15:46Yes, I am.
15:47Well, then start today.
15:49Or is it also the fact as well?
15:50Why does it start with results?
15:51Let's go...
15:52All right, Jules, Jules.
15:53Let's start with results.
15:54Julie.
15:54You never want to go.
15:56Julie, let's start...
15:57You never want to go.
15:58Julie, let's start with results.
15:59Oi, let's start with results.
16:01Yeah?
16:02Yeah.
16:02Yeah.
16:03Are you his father?
16:05Yeah.
16:06The DNA test results show that Billy...
16:09He is your biological father.
16:11And where have you been?
16:12You know, you've already said to these guys you've denied me,
16:16and the results on this and now black and white say...
16:19There is your question, now answer it.
16:21Where's the effort going to come from?
16:22Stop running away, answer it.
16:24I'll do all the efforts I will, I promise you.
16:26You sure about that?
16:27I cannot talk about your grandparents.
16:30Why can't you?
16:30Why do I have to...
16:31Sorry, that's going to upset you, yeah?
16:33Yeah, it will.
16:33What about what he's been through for 21 years?
16:35Why don't you get off your high horse and accept that he's a father now,
16:38you're supposed to put your kid first,
16:40which, for all I think about this woman,
16:42she has proven, Julie, in the last however many months
16:45that she's put herself second, tries to answer the questions he has.
16:49Stop thinking about yourself and think about your son.
16:51Fact.
16:52I will do.
16:53She knows how horrible half of the questions are.
16:56Slow down, Jules.
16:56Hold on.
16:57Julie, wait.
16:58Sorry, one thing from Julie.
16:59Go on, quickly.
17:00Another thing.
17:02You need to stop your boys saying that you're abroad
17:04when your passport ran out four years ago.
17:07Or St Connor, in the past,
17:08you have been on drugs as well, son.
17:10So the both of you are lying on that one.
17:12Now I'm not, I openly admitted to everyone that I've...
17:14Julie, Julie, I did...
17:16All right, Jules, Jules, Jules.
17:18Let me just say the accusation was another reason for him to deny.
17:21We've done a test.
17:23Good news for you, Connor, is clear.
17:25Clear, OK?
17:27He's turned the corner.
17:28Can I just say,
17:29I have done this a while, right?
17:32There's plenty of kids who have messed up...
17:33I think he's a good kid.
17:34And I think that the effort that Julie is making,
17:37you need to do as well.
17:39And we will help you do that.
17:41And here's something else, right?
17:43There will not...
17:43There'll be questions that you don't want to answer.
17:45There'll be difficult things.
17:46There's one thing you haven't said.
17:49Why haven't you said sorry, son?
17:51Why haven't you looked at your son and said sorry?
17:53Because he doesn't see me as a son.
17:54That's your son!
17:55We've already found it out that the results say yes.
17:58But we already know full well
18:00that if the timeline had worked better,
18:03after you'd had your girls,
18:04you wouldn't have bothered with me and Craig.
18:06Connor, I'm going to move on.
18:08I'm going to say this.
18:08The questions that he asked you
18:10that you say you're going to try and answer,
18:11at those moments,
18:11you'll probably have to look in the mirror
18:12and you might not like what you see
18:14because you might have to go back to things
18:15you don't want to answer.
18:16But you know what?
18:16That is the very least
18:17this impressive 21-year-old young man needs.
18:20And that is it.
18:21Julie, thank you.
18:22I hope you get better soon.
18:23Do what you should.
18:24We'll get the Aftercare team in.
18:25If you don't, right, fine.
18:28He'll get on with his life.
18:29But you owe this boy that,
18:31to the very least.
18:31Yes or no?
18:32Yes.
18:33Really good to meet you again.
18:34Give him a round of applause.
18:35Connor, Graham, all yours.
18:36Thank you very much indeed.
18:37How many times has he cheated on you?
18:39Ten, eleven times.
18:41How many kids has he had with other women
18:43whilst he's been with you?
18:44Three.
18:45Sorry?
18:45Three.
18:46We ain't coming to you.
18:47You love this lady.
18:49You are coming to me, man,
18:50because I ain't coming out there.
18:51That's the whole point of me being here.
18:52Why are you here?
18:5630 years and possibly two weeks ago,
19:00I gave my son up for adoption.
19:04Why?
19:05Because he was mixed race.
19:16Thank you very much, friends.
19:17Welcome back.
19:18My next guest today,
19:18Emma, who's here to prove to her partner, Lee,
19:20that she's not cheated on him,
19:21despite him being convinced
19:23that she's had another man round the house
19:24whilst he's been at work.
19:26She says the situation has got so bad
19:28that Lee has taken a step back
19:29from being a father
19:30to their eight-week-old son,
19:32who he says looks nothing like him
19:34and can't be his.
19:35This quite literally,
19:36and we do this a lot of the time,
19:37but this is true,
19:38this is a relationship at breaking point.
19:40Please welcome Emma to The Jeremy Kyle Show.
19:42Welcome to the show.
19:53Why are you here?
19:55I'm here to change my life
19:57for the better,
20:00for my kids.
20:01You're with Lee?
20:02Yeah.
20:03On and off for seven years?
20:04Yeah.
20:04I've never cheated on him?
20:06No.
20:06Why would you think you have?
20:08Because he accuses me all the time.
20:10I just can't,
20:11I can't do anything.
20:14I can't go anywhere.
20:15You've been here before
20:16and you've proven
20:16you haven't cheated on him.
20:17Yeah.
20:18You're also back to do a DNA test on...
20:21My youngest.
20:22How old is he?
20:23Eight weeks.
20:24You look amazing for eight weeks.
20:25Archie Lee?
20:26Yeah.
20:26Apparently he's taken a step back
20:28from the kid
20:28and doesn't believe the kid is his.
20:30No.
20:30Apparently he accuses you
20:31of sneaking off in the middle of the night,
20:33quite how you can do this
20:34if you've got a young baby,
20:34I've no idea,
20:35sneaking off in the middle of the night
20:36out the bedroom
20:37when they'd have sex with other men.
20:38Yeah, yeah.
20:41Right, listen,
20:41I've done two minutes.
20:42They said,
20:43for goodness sake,
20:43don't explode.
20:44See, I am not the right person
20:46to do this part.
20:47Yeah.
20:47I don't know what,
20:48what do you want me to say?
20:49Should we lay out the facts?
20:51Yeah.
20:51How many times has he cheated on you?
20:53Ten, eleven times.
20:55Different people.
20:57Sorry?
20:57With different people.
20:59How many kids has he had
21:00with other women
21:00whilst he's been with you?
21:01Three.
21:02Sorry?
21:03Three.
21:05I'm all for second chance,
21:06he's not eleventh.
21:07And don't laugh
21:08because it's not funny.
21:08Why the hell are you here doing this?
21:10Why don't you take your baby
21:11and run for the damn hills
21:12because he doesn't deserve it.
21:14I don't know.
21:14What do you want me to say?
21:16Hold on.
21:16It doesn't matter
21:17whether you've cheated or not.
21:19The only reason he's insecure
21:20is because he can't keep it in his pants.
21:22And I'm supposed to see her and go,
21:23hmm,
21:24hmm.
21:24door mat.
21:26I want my kids to have two parents
21:29and I'm doing everything
21:29that I can.
21:29What convinced him
21:30to keep his bits in his pants then
21:32and be a father?
21:33He's a good dad.
21:35To what,
21:35the three had out of wedlock?
21:36No, my kids.
21:37How do you feel
21:38that he had kids with...
21:39I mean,
21:40I obviously come from a different planet.
21:41Help me out.
21:42How do you even look at him?
21:44I love him.
21:47I do.
21:47And I've only ever been with him.
21:49What if you prove yourself today
21:51as you've done before?
21:52That's not going to stop him
21:53changing his behaviour, is it?
21:55Well,
21:55he said that
21:56I'm going to give him
21:56one last chance.
21:57I've got two kids
21:58and I need to do
21:59the best for them.
22:00I've got to think of them.
22:01I think you're amazing
22:02slash mad
22:03but I also want you to know something
22:05and I don't want you to get angry.
22:06I hope you've slept with everybody.
22:08But I haven't.
22:09I know you haven't.
22:10I can tell by your face
22:11but I hope you,
22:11honestly,
22:12because...
22:12Can I see him?
22:13What was he sitting there for?
22:14Eleven times
22:15you've cheated on her?
22:17No.
22:18Ten?
22:19No.
22:21How many, Ben?
22:23Normally been on breaks and stuff
22:24so technically
22:25it's not cheating.
22:26And three kids
22:27by three different women, yeah?
22:29Yeah.
22:31And you've the temerity
22:32to bring her back here
22:33to do another lie detect
22:35to when she...
22:35It was me that wanted to come back.
22:36It was me that wanted to come here.
22:37It was me.
22:38You completely control this woman,
22:40don't you?
22:40No.
22:41Is it difficult for you
22:42thinking the baby might not be yours?
22:44Obviously.
22:45How would you deal with that?
22:46I'm being serious, mate.
22:48So am I, mate.
22:49I mean,
22:50I'm being honest, right?
22:51I want you to answer the question
22:53man to man.
22:54She's had to deal with you cheating.
22:56She's had to deal with
22:58all of those things,
22:59the other kids.
23:00Is it not
23:01the reality of life
23:03that what you're feeling,
23:04Lee,
23:04right now,
23:05and this is man to man,
23:06right?
23:07This is your just desserts
23:08for what you've done to her,
23:09isn't it?
23:10Yeah.
23:10That's what I'm saying.
23:11I'm not being horrible.
23:12I'm just...
23:13Lee.
23:16Lee.
23:17Everybody makes mistakes.
23:18Get out here
23:18and face the music.
23:20Yeah, I'm not...
23:20I'm not...
23:21Mate,
23:21we ain't coming to you.
23:22You love this lady.
23:23You are coming to me, mate,
23:25because I ain't coming out there.
23:25That's the whole point
23:26of me being here.
23:29This lady,
23:30right,
23:30this lady is coming here
23:31to do her second test
23:32to prove to your bloke
23:33as she did her ten times
23:35and had three kids.
23:36I am not
23:36and neither is she coming.
23:38You prove you love her enough
23:39and get your backside out here
23:40because I ain't doing it.
23:42Are you joking, Lee?
23:43Not doing it.
23:45Not doing it.
23:45Get him out here, then.
23:48He should be coming out here
23:49and proving to you
23:50and meeting you halfway.
23:52Can't, Lee?
23:54I've told you,
23:54I ain't coming there.
23:55You want to do the results
23:56there, don't they?
23:57Sir, the woman
23:57that you accuse of everything,
23:59having done everything to her
24:00behind her back,
24:01you're not even prepared
24:02to sit with her here.
24:03Is that because you feel ashamed
24:04that they might not like you?
24:06Come and sit here.
24:06There's plenty of seats, yeah?
24:09Can I have the results, please?
24:12Where is William?
24:16Oh, I hope you've cheated on him.
24:19No, I do.
24:20But the important one's the DNA.
24:23You step back from this kid, yeah?
24:25In a sense, yeah.
24:26He doesn't...
24:27He's different with my own gifts
24:29than my own.
24:29Any doubt in your mind?
24:30No.
24:30Of course there isn't.
24:31You are the child's biological father, yeah?
24:33APPLAUSE
24:34Maybe since the baby's born,
24:42you've been up to no good, eh?
24:43Look at him shaking his head.
24:44Like, I owe him a favour.
24:45Unbelievable.
24:45Yeah, she passed every single question, mate,
24:49cos she ain't you, is she?
24:50CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
24:51LAUGHTER
24:52Lose the picture of him.
24:55I don't want to see him.
24:55Listen to me, please.
24:57I don't want to see his face.
24:57Get rid of the picture.
24:58Look at me.
24:59Can I just ask you a question, right?
25:01And I'm going to say something now.
25:03We have all stayed in relationships
25:04we shouldn't have stayed in for too long, probably.
25:07But, mate, unless you...
25:11I just want my kids to know
25:13that I tried everything I could
25:14to give them a mum and a dad.
25:17At what point, though, do you think
25:18you as a person, you as a woman,
25:20you as a human being,
25:22deserve to be treated better?
25:24You know, he said to me,
25:25when I slept with those other women,
25:27we were on breaks.
25:28Yeah, but I never slept with anybody else,
25:30even when he was doing everything.
25:32I still stuck by him,
25:34cos I don't want anybody else.
25:36And I just keep hoping that he'll change.
25:39That's all I want.
25:40I've never wanted to be with anybody else.
25:44I don't want to break you up.
25:45I don't want to say the wrong thing.
25:46I don't want to destroy you.
25:46But at what point do you wake up and go,
25:48do you know what,
25:48he's taking the mickey out of me here.
25:50I'm in love with him.
25:51I treat him decently.
25:52I want all of that.
25:53But actually, he's laughing at me.
25:54He can't even get his back.
25:55You know, they go,
25:56why should I...
25:57Why in the next...
25:58Do you know why I won't go and talk to him?
26:00Just put the picture up a minute, right?
26:04I'll tell you why I won't come back to you, right?
26:06It's because that's what this woman has done
26:08for how long she's been with you,
26:10because you've called the shots.
26:11I don't care about the ten.
26:12I care about the fact she's coming for the second time
26:15and the very least you should do as a man
26:16who purports to love her
26:17is get off your backside
26:18and come and give her a hug and say,
26:19I'm sorry.
26:20That's what you should do.
26:21Nothing more.
26:22But I'm not going to beg him.
26:23I don't want to beg him.
26:25Oh.
26:26Oh.
26:26It's like he's doing...
26:30It's like he's doing us some sort of big favour.
26:33All I'm going to say to you is this.
26:35There will come a point, right?
26:37And I'm at that point where I'm close to breaking point
26:39where I just...
26:40Tell him.
26:41Tell him.
26:48It's not about me, mate, Lee.
26:49It's not.
26:51Well, I'm sorry.
26:53I'm sorry.
26:53It's not fair.
27:01There's kids in the middle of this, isn't there?
27:02Yeah.
27:04One thing.
27:06When you thought the kid wasn't yours
27:08and you thought she cheated,
27:09what was that like?
27:10Terribly, obviously.
27:11Does that make you understand what she went through?
27:13Yeah.
27:15So is this it?
27:16She ain't coming back?
27:17Yeah?
27:18No, I'm not coming back.
27:19Treat her.
27:20If he comes back with another time,
27:22I am not coming back.
27:23You know?
27:24I can now have more kids.
27:25You've had the snip?
27:26Yeah.
27:27That's something to clap about.
27:30Look after her, OK?
27:32Yeah?
27:32Promise?
27:35Set the bar a bit high.
27:36Get out of it.
27:37Give them a round of applause.
27:38Thank you very much.
27:44Best of luck to them, Ryan.
27:45My next guest today, Janet,
27:46is here for a hugely emotional reunion with Ashley,
27:48the son she felt forced to give up for adoption 30 years ago
27:51because of the colour of his skin.
27:55Now, Janet says that handing over her baby
27:56was the hardest thing she's ever done
27:58and it's a decision that's haunted her for the rest of her life.
28:00It's a massive day for this lady.
28:02She's backstage in one of my green rooms.
28:03Just put it into context,
28:05and I say this every time we do a story like this,
28:06the world was a very different place 30 years ago.
28:10She did not want to give her child up,
28:13but there were other issues and reasons why she did that,
28:16so it's a real pleasure to meet her.
28:19How are you?
28:20Hello.
28:20Thank you so much.
28:22Thank you for having me.
28:24There's so much I want to ask.
28:28What I want to say to people watching this,
28:30we've come to talk to you here for a reason.
28:32Nobody else involved in this story can hear this,
28:35so this is you and me right now.
28:37Why are you here?
28:3830 years and possibly two weeks ago,
28:45I gave my son up for adoption.
28:49Why?
28:50Because he was mixed race.
28:53I mean, it's 2018.
28:56That is, by anybody's standards, a shocking thing to hear.
28:59The world was a different place back then,
29:01but even then, what pressure were you under
29:03to have to make such a horrible decision?
29:05A massive amount of pressure.
29:07Why?
29:08Because I had no support at all.
29:14There was nobody that I could turn to.
29:18Very difficult because you can't point the finger
29:20and people need a right of reply,
29:22but there was or were people around you
29:26who could be deemed racist in their thought process
29:28is who said that if you have this mixed race child
29:31and keep it, we'll have nothing to do with you.
29:33Yes.
29:34You had no money, nowhere to live, and you felt cornered.
29:36What was that like knowing that you had to give away something that precious?
29:40Do you know, I hid the pregnancy.
29:44I knew I was pregnant and I hid it.
29:48When I actually had my little boy,
29:52I spent time in hospital with him and that love right from the start was just...
30:02I couldn't...
30:03I didn't want to face the truth.
30:07I didn't want to have to give him away or put him up for adoption.
30:12You know, he was my baby and I loved him.
30:17I don't want to upset you, but you wanted to do this.
30:20And I might just say at this point, you know what's happening today, don't you?
30:25Yes.
30:25Tell everybody what's happening today.
30:27I get to meet my son for the first time.
30:31Thank you, Doctor.
30:32Can I get some pictures, please?
30:36The point of this story, and there's a key point to this story,
30:39which for me is extraordinary, and I want to say this right now.
30:42The lady that adopted your son, Ashley,
30:48a lady by the name of Audrey,
30:51not only brought your son up, but delivered a line,
30:54which was that she saw the look in your eye that day,
30:58she felt so sorry for you, and she promised herself that
31:02if and when the time was right for him,
31:05she would do everything in her power,
31:08which I think just makes her an angel.
31:11It was.
31:11So she's coming here to see if she can find you,
31:14so that's the set-up.
31:15But let's talk about if it's OK,
31:17because I have four kids, I can't imagine that day
31:19when you had to give him up,
31:20and how does that, how do you even survive that?
31:24I don't know.
31:25I've done it.
31:26I can't tell you how,
31:27but there's that moment in time where you're stuck.
31:39You know, do you do this?
31:41And I, honestly, I really, really,
31:45at the moment in time, I didn't want to do it.
31:47Do you ever think I'm just going to run away with him?
31:49Hundreds of times.
31:51I just knew you couldn't go.
31:53But I just thought...
31:54But there was not the support there is now, then.
31:57When did you go on and have a family?
32:00I have.
32:01You had other kids, but it was always there.
32:04Were you honest with other people about that?
32:06Yeah, I was.
32:08I never forgot every birthday.
32:11When you gave your son away,
32:14did you have any contact with him from that moment?
32:18Audrey very, very kindly
32:21wrote me a Mother's Day,
32:25sent me a Mother's Day card from Ashley,
32:28but with his name that I gave him on it.
32:32She sent me pictures of his chrizening day.
32:36One of him on his own.
32:37She's an angel, isn't she?
32:39Oh, when I met her and her husband,
32:41I just loved them both and I knew...
32:43But you lost contact with them.
32:45Yeah, and I understood why the contact stopped.
32:49You know, Audrey had to bond with her baby.
32:54Today is a day that you've dreamt of forever.
32:58Oh.
32:59I also wanted to say,
33:00because I'm going to go and meet Audrey.
33:01She doesn't know that we've found you.
33:03She's coming here.
33:03I'm just... I want to say that to you.
33:05But I also have a degree of sympathy for her
33:08because in her quest to help this boy she brought up
33:12discover his biological mother,
33:14I guess you could look at this and go,
33:15there's quite a lot of risk for her as well
33:16after 30 years of graft.
33:18Definitely.
33:19I want to hear from her, but honestly,
33:21so appreciate it, all right?
33:22And thank you for putting our trust in Ashley.
33:24Stay there. See you in a minute.
33:25See you.
33:31Right, my next guest today, Audrey,
33:33is here on a quest on behalf of her adopted son, Ashley.
33:37Now, Ashley came into Audrey's life 30 years ago
33:39after Ashley's biological mother had to give him up
33:42because of the colour of his skin.
33:44Now, Audrey bears no animosity towards Ashley's mum.
33:46In fact, this amazing woman is here
33:49because she wants to find her.
33:51Audrey's on the Jeremy Carr show.
33:52What a pleasure.
34:02How are you?
34:04I'm good, thank you.
34:05My goodness me, I've done this show a long time
34:09and reading these notes this morning
34:11and other people reading these notes,
34:12everybody just went,
34:13wow, you are an angel, aren't you?
34:17Tell me about 30 years ago.
34:21I mean, from what I read,
34:23I mean, it was a very different world
34:25and this young girl was under immense pressure, right?
34:28Yes, she was.
34:29She felt immense.
34:30You could see the pressure she was under.
34:32You could see she had a lot of love for Ashley
34:35and you could tell it was really difficult
34:38for her to make the decision to give her child up.
34:42Do you remember that day?
34:44I do remember that day.
34:45She told us how much she loved Ashley.
34:51She was pleased that she'd met myself and my husband, Lloyd,
34:55and she was pleased that Ashley was going to come
34:58and live with us.
34:59Did you have a bit of a connection with her?
35:02Yes, I did.
35:03I felt really sorry for her.
35:05You know, there was a lot of empathy.
35:08It's not the easiest thing to do,
35:10as everyone will understand,
35:12giving a child a baby up
35:14must be one of the hardest things in the world.
35:17Well, that's what I wanted to say.
35:20Probably not in the right order.
35:21That's why I have such respect for you,
35:24apart from the fact that you took this kid on for 30 years
35:26and people like you, I think, do come from heaven.
35:28But the fact that this boy means so much to you
35:32that you're now prepared to help him find his birth mother.
35:38But if that's successful,
35:39would that impact on your relationship with him?
35:42That must have crossed your mind, I guess.
35:46It did, just a little bit.
35:48But we have such a fantastic relationship
35:50that I know that it just wouldn't impact.
35:53Tell me about him.
35:55Well, we're so proud of him.
35:57He's amazing.
35:58He's been a fantastic son.
36:00He is the youngest of four children,
36:04so his sisters do spoil him.
36:07He has been a little bit unpegged because he is the baby.
36:10I love the story about when you told him.
36:13It gets better.
36:14And you said that you told him at six
36:15and he burst into tears.
36:17He did.
36:17And then he dusted himself down and went out to play.
36:19He did.
36:20Yeah.
36:20He ran straight outside for a play with his mates.
36:23Yes, he did.
36:24Been a good boy?
36:25A fantastic boy.
36:26So proud of him.
36:27He's made us really proud.
36:29What does this mean to him today?
36:30It means everything to him.
36:32It's about his identity.
36:34He...
36:35You know, there's a little part of him missing
36:37in order to move forward.
36:39I think he just would like some closure,
36:41want to see where he comes from.
36:43So who are we looking for?
36:44What do we know?
36:45We're looking for Janet.
36:47We know she was 20 years old.
36:49I found her.
36:50I'm not going to mess around.
36:51Oh, you found her.
36:53That's so amazing.
36:56She's listened to everything you've just said as well.
36:58Really?
36:5930 years ago, you did what...
37:01Listen, not many people would do.
37:05And then I know, not only that,
37:08but you allowed her to come to see,
37:10she sent her pictures from the Christmas...
37:11I mean, you did...
37:11You did more than you should have done.
37:14This woman has lived with this every day for 30 years,
37:16and today for her is probably the most important day of her life.
37:20So what I'm going to do is bring you two together...
37:22OK.
37:24Talk to him and then bring you two out together to meet him, all right?
37:27That would be fantastic.
37:28It would be fair to say, Audrey, you are an angel.
37:31You saved her life and his 30 years ago.
37:33Janet's on the Jeremy Carr show.
37:34Well done.
37:35CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
37:35AND APPLAUSE
37:35CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
37:37Thank you so much.
38:07Sit down, ladies.
38:13What do you make of this lady, Janet?
38:17She's wonderful.
38:19Absolutely amazing.
38:21I loved her when I first met her and I love her even more now.
38:25You know, when I read these notes this morning,
38:27what leapt out from these pages was the respect
38:31that the two of you had for each other
38:33and that that will be massively important now
38:36because it's going to be difficult.
38:39It's going to be difficult for Audrey.
38:41She's done the graft for 30 years.
38:43It's going to be difficult for Janet not to feel like she's encroaching
38:46and also she wasn't able to make that.
38:48But what I like, I mean, you are.
38:49Yeah, but at the end of the day, we're now all family.
38:53And it doesn't matter.
38:54I'm so glad that you're here, Janet.
38:55So glad.
39:01I was going to say, what are you going to say to each other?
39:03You're just crying.
39:03What do you want to say to her?
39:04Oh, Janet and I have got something together.
39:06We have a son, you know, we have a son, don't we?
39:10We do.
39:10And he's here today.
39:11And I'm so happy that they found her.
39:12I didn't expect this was going to be the result.
39:15I don't know what I really expected, but...
39:17Oh, you must have thought I'd find her.
39:21I know you do a fantastic job
39:23and I was hoping and praying that you would find her,
39:25but I didn't expect her to be here today.
39:27I am.
39:28I'm so glad that you're here today.
39:29Three buses, a train and a taxi.
39:31It's been a nightmare.
39:34What I want you to do for me is the next part of this,
39:37because he's not in the studio right now.
39:40I want you two, mother and adoptive mother,
39:43to go backstage, hold hands, wipe your eyes.
39:45I'm going to get him out.
39:47And then I'm going to introduce him to his biological mother
39:50for the first time in his life, with his adoptive mother.
39:53And then we've got another surprise as well.
39:56So I'm going to go to a break.
39:57They're going to go to the pod and Ashley's next.
40:00Don't go.
40:00We found your mum.
40:02She's here.
40:04She's here.
40:04She is now.
40:08Audrey, I loved you when I first met you,
40:11and I love you even more today.
40:14There's something else you need to know.
40:26Thank you, my friends.
40:27Welcome back.
40:27My next guest today, Ashley,
40:28is here to make a last-ditched attempt
40:30to trace his biological mother, Janet.
40:31Now, at the age of 12, Ashley was told he was adopted.
40:34Whilst this is something he's always accepted,
40:36naturally, he's always been curious to find out more
40:39about his biological parents.
40:41Now, with the help of his adopted mum, Audrey,
40:42he set out to search for Janet ten years ago,
40:45but says,
40:46you know what, we've hit a brick wall,
40:48and he says,
40:49usual thing that people say,
40:50Jeremy Karsha, last resort.
40:52Let's see if we can help him.
40:53Ashley's on the Jeremy Karsha.
40:54We've got that one.
40:55APPLAUSE
40:55Thanks for coming.
41:02Thanks for coming.
41:03What have you got there?
41:05Just some letters and a birthday card,
41:09so it just, like, explains why I was adopted.
41:14When were you...
41:15Ashley, when did your mother,
41:18your adopted mother, Audrey,
41:19when did she explain to you what had gone...
41:21What did she say?
41:23She first explained when I was seven,
41:26but I didn't really understand
41:28what she was talking about.
41:30That's why you went back...
41:30You went out and played with you.
41:31I was just like,
41:32can I just go out and play now, please?
41:34LAUGHTER
41:35And then she explained again when I was 12,
41:37and cos she had...
41:39Well, cos her job at the time was fostering kids,
41:41I knew, like,
41:42they weren't my real brothers and sisters.
41:44Were you told why...
41:45Your biological mother had to give you up?
41:50Not when my mum and dad told me, no.
41:53It was all explained in the letter when I was 18.
41:56Who sent that letter?
41:57My biological mum sent that letter.
42:00What did the letter say about it?
42:02That she was a young mother.
42:05It was not really acceptable to be going out
42:11or having birth to a black person.
42:18What's it like to hear that?
42:20It really actually did, like...
42:22It hurt me, cos...
42:23I didn't think...
42:25Cos, obviously, like, in my generation,
42:27it's a lot different now.
42:28But back then, it really wasn't, like, acceptable.
42:31So it just hurt.
42:33But I understood everything.
42:35Can you imagine what it did to her?
42:37It, like, crippled her.
42:39She hated it.
42:41You decided...
42:42And I think this is really important,
42:44cos your adoptive mum is an amazing woman.
42:48Audrey's here in a sec.
42:49She's really helped you with this search.
42:51Yeah, loads.
42:52Has there been any sort of moment
42:53where you thought,
42:55God, I can't actually tell her I want to do this
42:57cos she might get upset?
42:58Or have you always been really open and honest?
43:00No, she's always been supportive.
43:02My mum and dad have always been there.
43:04They've always, like, pushed me to try and find,
43:08so it would never...
43:09Are you all right if we bring Audrey out?
43:10Yeah, that's fine.
43:11Let's get Audrey on The Jeremy Kyle Show.
43:13APPLAUSE
43:14Audrey, welcome.
43:26Um, you hear this boy talk.
43:30Let's do away with the pretense.
43:32What do you want to tell him?
43:34I want to tell him
43:35that we found your mum.
43:37She's here.
43:39She's here.
43:40She's not.
43:43Don't, cos I don't ever go and I'm about to.
43:47Do you want to meet your mum?
43:4930 years.
43:51And by the way, she's an incredible woman too.
43:53This is Janet on The Jeremy Kyle Show.
43:54She's here.
43:55I don't know.
44:31And for those people who have spent 15 years saying the Jeremy Cowell show doesn't do any good, just watch that, ladies and gentlemen.
44:48She's done a good job, hasn't she?
44:51Too much of a good job.
44:53Take a seat, guys.
44:57You weren't expecting that, were you?
44:59They've been sat together.
45:01I can't believe it.
45:06Janet, what do you want to say?
45:10Thank you, Audrey.
45:13I loved you when I first met you.
45:15And I love you even more today.
45:18Because look at this great tall, gorgeous young man we've got.
45:24Oh, yeah, just 30 years late.
45:27What about you, Ash?
45:28I can't believe it.
45:31It's like my heart is just going to go into overdriving.
45:37Wow.
45:38Are you happy, though?
45:39I can't, so happy.
45:40I'm not just doing it again and again.
45:43I think you are an absolute angel.
45:45Really.
45:48So, it's quite a lot to take in, but on the Jeremy Kyle Show, sometimes it just keeps coming.
45:57There's something else you need to know.
46:00What else does he need to know?
46:02You have two siblings, a brother and a sister, and your sister's here today.
46:09She can't wait to meet you.
46:11This is Natalie on the Jeremy Kyle Show.
46:13This is your sister as well.
46:14Natalie, welcome to the show.
46:30I read this story repeatedly all last night because I think it's incredible.
46:35One story that you came out with, and you look like you're being blown away, like, whoa,
46:39what next?
46:40Tell the story about walking down the road with your mum.
46:42If we see any, yeah, to be fair, if we walk by, we said, could it be him?
46:47Obviously, we both wanted to find you.
46:51It was only last week that I actually started going on websites, seeing how you go about tracking
46:56down, and then when we got this letter and phone call, we didn't think it was real, that
47:02last week I started to do it.
47:06Yesterday was just a whirlwind.
47:099.30 phone call, and by 8 o'clock we're here.
47:12We know we're going to meet Audrey and Ashley.
47:15I don't usually do this, but I've said you're an angel.
47:17I don't think, sorry, I'm going to say this, I don't think the people on this show ever
47:22get the credit they deserve sometimes.
47:24I think these guys that have put, this is amazing, and they deserve all the respect in
47:29the world for doing it.
47:30Massive, massive.
47:31What does this mean to your mum?
47:37Everything.
47:38Everything.
47:39You know, my mum told me when I was 14 about Ashley and, you know, when it was his birthday, my
47:48mum would be really quiet, very sad.
47:49I didn't really know, and then obviously I realised it was his birthday, and it means everything
47:55to her.
47:56And it means everything to me as well.
47:59For all of you, just delighted.
48:00You're happy you came?
48:01I'm really happy.
48:02I'm really happy.
48:03So with your mum, and your adopted mum, and your sister, get out of here, give her a round
48:08of applause.
48:10Later.
48:11All right?
48:12See you later.
48:14See you later.
48:17See you later.
48:18Thanks, guys.
48:19See you later.
48:20Nice way to end today.
48:24I'm out of time.
48:25If you want to be here, you need my help, visit my website.
48:27The details are on screen.
48:28To the guest fields, and to you five watching Home 5, because I'm a granddad.
48:31See you soon.
48:32Take care.
48:33Bye for now.
48:34Bye.
48:35Bye.
49:04Bye.
49:05Bye.