What are the importance of these?
With Lyndon Balkaran
With Lyndon Balkaran
Category
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TVTranscript
00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:09Thank you for joining us for another conversation with Manhood.
00:14And it's always a delight and pleasure to be here to speak with you,
00:19for our viewers, our listeners.
00:21And we're always trying to provoke some thought or some form of thought
00:26in a very positive way, hoping for a positive outcome.
00:29And that if nothing else, that you leave here with just some other perspective
00:34to be better, to be a better person, to be a better, ultimately a better man.
00:41Today's topic, community and continuity.
00:46I must say today is groundbreaking for us.
00:50It's new.
00:51It's the first time we've actually asked for our guest to provide the topic.
00:56So it will be a learning experience for all of us.
00:59And I'm really excited about that.
01:02And it's a very powerful message.
01:04To my right, Johan Seaudike, behavior change consultant.
01:10Our guest today and the man who provided the topic, community and continuity,
01:15Lyndon Balkaran, leadership strategist.
01:19Big title.
01:21Powerful man, powerful man of God.
01:23And to his right, Niall McNeish, provocateur.
01:29We all come to understand that at some point, I keep saying it every episode,
01:35every conversation.
01:36I appreciate it.
01:37And I don't know whether I'm saying it now.
01:38I like it.
01:39I don't know whether I'm saying it all the time with a smile on my face.
01:42You know, they say all skin details smile.
01:44I don't know if I'm always happy about it.
01:45You like to have your friend.
01:48Yeah, he's my partner.
01:50But it's your part of the community.
01:52That is the question.
01:53Vibes God.
01:55So, gents, viewers, listeners, community and continuity.
02:01Lyndon, I would ask you to lead this one off.
02:03Yeah, so good afternoon, everyone.
02:05Welcome.
02:05Good night.
02:06Good morning.
02:06Whenever you're listening to us right now, thank you so much for being here.
02:10Community is important to me.
02:12And I think that a lot of persons, they underplay the value of community, you know.
02:17Because a simple thing in terms of, you know, our grandparents told us,
02:20birds of a feather flock together, right.
02:22And I think that a lot of persons, they are reactive or not intentional around the community.
02:28And because of that absence, you tend to mirror the behavior of your community,
02:33sometimes subconsciously.
02:35Why are you speaking like that?
02:36Where does that accent, I'm going to talk about that today, right.
02:41The provocateur.
02:43Provocateur.
02:43Provocateur.
02:44I'm going to learn it, right.
02:45That's your role, right.
02:46So, you speak on accent.
02:47You do certain things.
02:49And subconsciously, you are mirroring the behaviors and the beliefs of your community,
02:53which is really social mirror theory as well, right.
02:56So, it's without identity.
02:57So, your identity, definitely.
02:59So, you are going to always mirror the beliefs and the behavior of your community.
03:05Always.
03:05Always.
03:06So, you either do it.
03:08Societal influences.
03:09Societal influences.
03:10So, either in terms of you follow it or you rebel against it.
03:14But some way or the other, the beliefs and the behavior of the persons closest to you
03:20shape either indirectly or in terms of fueling that thing that I'm in a negative space.
03:27I want to be better than it.
03:28Okay.
03:29So, here's my question to you with that then.
03:32When you say the word community, I find of late or modern, families are very small.
03:37Right.
03:38Very nuclear.
03:39Especially in the black community.
03:40Where you don't really get much interaction outside parents, siblings, maybe an aunt or uncle, grandparents, if you're lucky.
03:51And then that's kind of it.
03:52That's the nuclear family.
03:54In my neighborhood, I barely talk to my neighbors.
03:57So, when you say community, where does that expand towards?
04:01Is it just physical or a football club is considered a community?
04:04And let's be real, the rules of engagement have changed, right?
04:09These guys now, the younger generation, they spend hours in a virtual community, right?
04:15So, it's not just a person that you interact with in a physical space.
04:19I do with parents all the time.
04:21They say, my kids don't talk.
04:22I'm trying to get them to open up.
04:23They're not open up to you because you're not in their community and interact with them on their level.
04:28So, we have to change the dimension of community as well, too.
04:32So, someone is looking at this on YouTube, right?
04:35Someone is picking this up on a television station somewhere.
04:37Someone is hearing about it.
04:39So, by extension, they are part of this community plugged in.
04:42Your degree of investment and engagement is another dimension.
04:47But the aspect of community is powerful.
04:50And I think that because we don't value it, we are not intentional around it.
04:56So, we ultimately become the byproduct either intentionally or unintentionally.
05:02So, help me, Linda, with the correlation because it's not like we're saying salt and pepper.
05:09Both are, you know, salt is different to pepper.
05:12It's not one versus the other.
05:13Correct.
05:14So, when we say community and continuity, help me with that correlation.
05:17So, let me paint a really clear picture.
05:19Really, really simple.
05:21One of the most powerful communities in any nation, especially our reality, are gangs.
05:27A gang is a community, right?
05:30And it's community leader.
05:31Community leader.
05:33We're going to come to that, right?
05:34In a bit.
05:35And because they are now built on a certain ecosystem ethos and a vision and a direction, these gangs live on and pass on from generation to generation.
05:46Sometimes at the transition point, there's a fraction of different things, right?
05:49So, six to seven to nine or those different dimensions.
05:53But it goes on.
05:54But the community is still the same.
05:55The community and the essence of the thing.
05:57The culture.
05:58It transcends generations, right?
06:01So, again, if we're not intentional around that, building the community with the vision that this thing can live on long after us, the things we're doing now, we're building for five, ten years.
06:15Wow.
06:16So, it makes sense when, you know, back in the day, my parents used to be like, I don't want that person to be a friend.
06:22Correct.
06:23And in my mind.
06:25What are you saying?
06:26You don't understand me, mommy.
06:28And they understand me.
06:29But they're seeing, they're seeing past my immediate wants of being one to be cool in this particular situation with this person.
06:38But, you know, it's not really dawning on me that my mother essentially was seeing the community.
06:46The impact of it.
06:47The impact of what that community was on I.
06:49That particular community.
06:50But when we talk about 60% in terms of the last stats I would have seen, 60% of our societal influences, which what we're talking about is your community, your environment, your village, right?
07:06Is what shapes you, gives you your thought, right?
07:09Right.
07:10Your parents are bringing, your siblings, et cetera, is part of that.
07:13But a lot of that is, that's where you have your peers.
07:16Your peers come in.
07:17And that's where peer pressure can also come in as a result of, to probably influence you to do something that which you probably is not normally part of your community.
07:27They may press you to do something outside of that norm.
07:30Or, and most times it's seen as a negative, you know, peer pressure to, I don't know.
07:34Right.
07:34In my day it was peer smears, right?
07:36Right.
07:37You know, dye your hair type thing.
07:41So wear a cotton club t-shirt, I don't know, you know, and wear short pants going to a party.
07:45Different things like that.
07:46And because the societal influences or the community my parents or siblings or aunts, uncles are from, they may look down on that.
07:56Right.
07:56Because they're not, they might not understand it.
07:59Likewise with my son.
08:01You know, his community is his friends between seven and ten.
08:06And they're into Roblox and other things like that.
08:08See, Merit.
08:09I'm not really understanding that.
08:11But am I going to frown upon it?
08:13No, because that's of his age.
08:15Yeah.
08:15That's his community.
08:16I'm not supposed to connect with that.
08:19But can I jump in?
08:19When you say that's his community, you are part of his community.
08:24Oh, definitely.
08:24I am part of his community, but it's like a Venn diagram.
08:26You know, you have, you must have interlocking, the interlocking community, the communities that are isolated.
08:32Right.
08:33His seven to ten-year-old crowd.
08:35And within that community, there are probably subcommittees, subcommunities or other communities by other friends who come from other societal or community upbringings.
08:44You know, like we were speaking about, you know, in a previous episode where we spoke about authenticity.
08:51Right.
08:51You know, you are a different person in different environments or different behaviors.
08:56So, communities are varied.
08:59It's not a one specific.
09:01It isn't, right?
09:01But the principle of the community remains the same.
09:04So, let's use the same example.
09:06In this instance, so your son is in a community interacting and demonstrating beliefs and behavior.
09:11But you are governance.
09:13Okay.
09:14Right.
09:14When you see things in a community that's now in conflict with your personal beliefs and values, you are going to intervene.
09:21Right.
09:22And you can disrupt that entire community.
09:24I don't want you to spend time with those guys anymore.
09:26You can't uproot them from the school.
09:29You can do different things.
09:31For men, where's that governance protocol?
09:33I'm going to wake up.
09:37You wake your heart.
09:38We are.
09:39You're going to be like, hey, I think I'm not paying to do it.
09:41Because, let me tell you, because there was an absence of it for me.
09:46Right.
09:47Growing up.
09:47When I would say maybe between 25 to maybe 30 and, I see 25 to maybe 35.
09:57Right.
09:57I wanted, I know what I wanted in a community from men.
10:02And I was looking at it from older men.
10:05Because, you know, older men are more traditional.
10:08And they have certain values that sometimes they would stick to.
10:11But I realize in this day and age, now, I don't, I'm not saying all men.
10:16Right.
10:16But this is what I've encountered.
10:18That because there's no ethos, I want to use the word ethos, or no one standard.
10:25There's no tradition anymore.
10:26Things kind of, we kind of in our way that everything is up for interpretation.
10:31Right.
10:31Right.
10:32There's no standard of what a man, I'm using this loosely, of what a man should be or the rules a man should follow.
10:40So, therefore, the communities of men kind of just happen with happenstance.
10:45So, if it are men who like to sweat, we form a FET match team.
10:51If it are men who like, who like, what is this old team?
10:55Manchester United.
10:56Right?
10:57Wow.
10:57He went there.
10:58He went there.
11:00Wow.
11:00He chose violence.
11:01He woke up.
11:02Why would you do that?
11:03He literally woke up and chose violence.
11:05I think for all our viewers and listeners, Johansi, you will not see him on here.
11:09The views of this person as we reflect the views of the wider community.
11:12Where are we coming from?
11:13So, we kind of just pull things instead of being intentional with it.
11:17Right.
11:18So, happenstance community.
11:20But let me say this, right?
11:21And I think guys like us, we miss it.
11:25Right?
11:25Because we are operating at a higher level in terms of the regular.
11:30We're not average.
11:30Let me see why we're not average.
11:32We're not wondering where we're going to eat next month.
11:34Let's be real.
11:36Okay.
11:36All right.
11:37We're not wondering if I'll be able to feed my child next month.
11:41That is not a reality.
11:43These guys, a lot of persons are operating on the survival.
11:48They are just trying to survive.
11:51Just the basic need of getting something to eat 2D.
11:57To not die 2D.
12:00That need of survival and belonging.
12:03It is a major need, especially for a man.
12:06So, you brought out a couple things there.
12:10And I just, again, I want to bring us to the point how we then proceed or move forward with the show.
12:19So, we're not all over the place.
12:20Right.
12:20So, we're talking about community and continuity.
12:24You know, I can't help myself.
12:26It's who I am.
12:27My authentic self right now.
12:29When Johansson brought up Manchester United and he went on that old team, what he really meant to say is, you know, his lack of sports knowledge is clearly evident.
12:37What he really meant to say is Old Trafford.
12:39Right?
12:39So, you know, where the football team is located.
12:41This went deep.
12:42This went very deep.
12:44So, you're forgiven.
12:45Right?
12:45We could move past that.
12:46When we talk about behaviors and the lack of, as we, you know, I like to bring up Maslow's theory and the higher propensity of needs.
12:56And you talk about the basics there.
12:59When someone doesn't have food, they're in survival mode.
13:02Survival mode.
13:03Right?
13:03And you almost deal with people that are feral at that particular point.
13:06You know, when you hear terms like, I'm hungry, or people that are, you know, you see these movies where they're lost and so on.
13:14You see them eating or doing things and you turn to them.
13:18You pass judgment because you're not in that situation.
13:20But the basic need at that time is hunger or to protect or to feed your family.
13:25And what you do at that point, like, you know, as I mentioned to you when you said about coming on a hike, you know, based on some of the areas I go into.
13:33Some of these creatures, snakes and these different things, they don't attack because they just want to attack.
13:38They're protecting.
13:39And the basic needs are inside of there.
13:43So when it comes down to community and that continuity, and we want to separate the two based on a community that we might be brought up in so we don't, we're not starving at this point.
13:54We're not wondering where is that meal coming from.
14:02Can those communities in that sense align?
14:11Like, for example, if you go into another community, another area, are you still?
14:16I think so.
14:18Yeah, definitely.
14:18I think so, no, because I'll give my experience.
14:22I've led men's groups and I've been part of men's groups, right?
14:26And over the years, coming from some that failed, as me being a leader, failed and also being a member that has failed, I realized what was fundamental was not asking people what they want.
14:41So the group intention was to give people what they think they want versus what they really want, right?
14:47And coming back to what you're doing, what you said and what you said, because if no matter what your socioeconomic status is, if one of your needs are take care of my family economically, right, financially, then no matter how we're doing it, that we have a common goal.
15:05So therefore, we could form a community.
15:06Yeah.
15:07So finding out what people want versus what we think they want, I think, is a good basis to start.
15:14So that is important as well.
15:16But when you're talking about community, it's geared towards an end game.
15:21When you're building community because you have nothing to do, right?
15:24Margaret made that, and I love the philosophy that she advanced.
15:26She said that she never doubted the power of a small group of committed persons to change the world.
15:33She said, indeed, it is the only thing it ever has.
15:35So with that perspective now, I'm building a community to the end game of making impact.
15:41I'm not just doing a men's group for us to come and sing Kumbaya or go by the river and fit.
15:47That's one part of it.
15:49But what is the objective of the community, right?
15:51And if we don't have that big picture of what we are working towards, it's an absence of vision as well.
15:56And now how do we bring guys together, bring people together, align to the common goal that unites us, and then move in the direction of it?
16:06We don't even know what the end game is going to look like.
16:09All we are, in most instances, extremely reactive.
16:12So this is a problem.
16:13And let's try to find a way to solve the problem as opposed to, what is the full potential of these men?
16:20We don't start there.
16:22What is the full potential of these guys?
16:24And how do we build a community around it, around these values, around this vision, and then move?
16:29So let's swing the conversation and the trajectory that we are on, right?
16:34As men, let's ask the question, how are we intentional about building community?
16:42Where you ride or die come from, you know?
16:45Where?
16:47And I want us to continue, right?
16:50But I saw before my brother comes in there, you know, we talk about community and continuity,
16:55and we will continue with this conversation right now.
16:59So welcome back, and today we are talking about community and continuity as for men.
17:14You know, how do we build a community, and how do we go after it?
17:17And the first part of the conversation was so profound, it's going to continue there.
17:19And for me, it's really important to understand your interpretation or understanding of what a man is,
17:26because your community will ultimately mirror that.
17:28So for me, my faith is my cornerstone.
17:31I'm a man of faith.
17:32Any space I go into unashamedly, my faith is my core, right?
17:36And for me, a man is something that is made in the image and likeness of God, right?
17:41So I ask guys all the time, and it always ends up in an interesting place.
17:44We grew up in the Caribbean, so Christianity is a known religion, right?
17:48And I ask guys some more questions.
17:50Was Adam a boy or a man?
17:52That's a question we don't even think about, right?
17:58Was he 7?
17:59Was he 12?
18:00Was he 15?
18:01Was he 30?
18:02Right?
18:03And at least...
18:04Should I provoke something here?
18:05Is it a metaphor?
18:06Right?
18:06So it is, right?
18:09But then...
18:10And that, it really breaks down the narrative of what person...
18:14We think that man is a stage, a progressive.
18:17So you're a born, a baby, a boy, and then you become a man.
18:21But for me, a man is a state, right?
18:23A state.
18:24A state of being.
18:25So he made man, he made Adam in his image and likeness.
18:29That's what man is, right?
18:30So for me personally, and again, this is not a theological exposition, right?
18:35For me personally, Lyndon, in my pursuit to become a man, I'm trying to become more like God, right?
18:44So when persons look at me, the character, the attributes, the nature, you should see that in me.
18:51That is my pursuit.
18:53So for me, it's my understanding of that and the community around me is built that way to help me along my development path to become like that.
19:05So that is where men have to think about it in terms of...
19:08But when you say that, I'm trying to get specific there.
19:12Right.
19:12So that's your interpretation of what it takes to be a man.
19:16Right.
19:16But we all come from different communities.
19:20Right.
19:21And when I say we all, in Trinidad and Tobago, the region globally, people come from different communities.
19:27Right.
19:28But in your estimation or understanding, is there that, those one, two, three things that constitute, this is what a man is, does, becomes...
19:44So for me, that's too narrow.
19:47Because if we say that a man is hardworking or a man is a provider, if a one provides, does it make her a man?
19:54Right?
19:55Right.
19:55If he said you are strong-willed and determined and whatever indicator that we put at the end of that statement...
20:01No, it's just adjectives.
20:02I'm talking about, which is what I'm saying to you.
20:05We're not saying that, therefore, we won't say something.
20:08Johansi brought stuff, you know, in a previous episode.
20:11We're not saying something that, when we spoke about male privilege.
20:16Right.
20:16That a woman herself, you know, we spoke about male privilege in terms of wearing clothes.
20:22Like a woman could wear, I mean, a man could wear the same outfit.
20:25Right.
20:25And, you know, he won't be told anything.
20:27A woman needs to be wearing different outfits.
20:29And Niall brought about male privilege.
20:31Right.
20:31And you can't say, you know, brought to the fact that, well, if a woman chooses not to do the same thing,
20:37I am saying, so in this particular context, we're not being strong-willed or being...
20:44Got you.
20:45You know, all of these different things.
20:46So I can lead into that.
20:48So for me, again, in terms of, so that's where it starts.
20:51So drilled on now, a sense of identity, a sense of purpose, sense of vision in terms of, at the end of...
20:58Because my life, we are finite, right?
21:00But a woman can also do this.
21:01That's what I'm saying to you.
21:02Correct.
21:02What is that that just makes a man?
21:06That without a doubt, you can see, if you're doing this, if you have this, it makes you a man, apart from the physical.
21:13Right.
21:14Of course.
21:14And as I'm saying, it's too narrow of a view to even to restrict it to that.
21:19So for me, when I see that I'm a man, so there's male man and female man.
21:23Man is a species, right?
21:24And again, it's a different perspective.
21:27There's male man.
21:27Yeah.
21:28We don't want open it here.
21:30You're using, can't tell me if I'm hearing it wrong, right?
21:32Right.
21:33Or correctly, Lyndon's using the biblical term of man.
21:36Man is the race.
21:37So it encompasses both male and female.
21:40Homosapien.
21:40Human, right.
21:40So God created man in his image and likeness, which is male and female.
21:45Right.
21:45So that's what Lyndon referred to.
21:47You refer to specifically what makes a male, a male versus a female.
21:52Yeah.
21:52Right.
21:53See, and I said the gender conversation is a layer that sits on top of it.
21:57So for me, as a man, right, and it's the same thing for women as well, too.
22:02Women have to understand their vision and their purpose and their identity and all the
22:05different attributes as well.
22:07So for me, and I think that the conversation becomes a bit too narrow in terms of, because
22:11what is a man?
22:13And because the question is-
22:15What makes a man?
22:15What makes a man?
22:16And the root of that question, the reason why that question has so much substance now
22:19is because man has lost that sense of identity and that sense of purpose and that sense
22:24of their role in community, 20 years ago, we weren't asking these questions.
22:28Let's be real.
22:29Right.
22:2950 years ago, all the narrative around the man and the missing man and all those things
22:34and that was not conversation then.
22:36So we have slipped from our role in society.
22:40There's a slide.
22:42There's a slippery slope that we're on.
22:43Why do you use the word slip or not evolve?
22:45I don't know.
22:46Definitely.
22:47I wouldn't say evolve because evolve will definitely be, in my interpretation of evolution,
22:51is progressive, right?
22:52Okay.
22:53Progressive, right?
22:54I look, I look, someone, I'm in corporate Trinidad, I look around 80% of the persons
22:58in the bodies are male, a female, sorry, right?
23:02Look through in terms of the whole narrative, end game, end game's Marvel, right?
23:08The hero is a woman, right?
23:09And before that was in the reality.
23:11So in terms of that sense of where's the value of a man?
23:15I don't even need him anymore, right?
23:16And we can talk different things in terms of those conversations.
23:19I don't want to slip too far.
23:20No, no, but for yourself, I just want to be clear that we all understand, even the
23:25viewers and listeners, what you say.
23:28Because when Niall brought up, you know, a lot of times the two interlock and as a result
23:33the viewers and listeners, we feel differently about what you intended to say.
23:37So I just want to clarify, when Niall used the words evolve, right, you said evolve to
23:43you means progressive.
23:44Yeah.
23:45And then you went on to say that, you know, based on Marvel and the way things are happening
23:49now, women are seeming to take more of a front or leadership role.
23:53So is it you're saying that that's a negative thing?
23:56So for me, it's not necessarily negative.
23:58I believe, I have a daughter, Myles is six years old.
24:02I want her to be fueled.
24:04I want society to come around and tell her you can and invest in and fuel.
24:08I'm supporting friends in Liberia and Africa.
24:10Girls aren't going to school now today.
24:12They can't go to school.
24:13So I support an agenda that pushes women to become the best version of themselves.
24:19But we have to have that equal effort to our boys as well.
24:23And stop seeing boys as trouble and dysfunctional and underperforming.
24:28Right.
24:28So as I'm saying in terms of the narrative, and that's why when I look at these things,
24:33there's a perception, right, that men aren't living up to their full potential and becoming
24:37and that's why I use the word in terms of slipping.
24:39So it's not necessarily an evolution and an equal effort is required.
24:44So let me bring it back to the topic.
24:46Men, male, man, right, we thrive in community.
24:53We become the best versions of ourselves based on the community that we are in.
24:59And every living thing is the same way.
25:02You take a seed that has the potential to become a big tree, put it in a small pot,
25:07it doesn't break the pot.
25:09Very rarely it breaks the pot.
25:12So when you understand the potential that you carry as a man, right,
25:17then you intentionally orchestrate the community around you to help you get better.
25:25So that's where conversations like mentorship and coaching and those things come,
25:30but those things come after the identification of who you are, what you carry.
25:35Imagine if you're seeing Bolden, finance coach.
25:39Let's talk about it.
25:41If he wasn't surrounded with persons who believed in him and reinforced his potential of what he can become,
25:48we never would have seen that record broken in the Caribbean.
25:52It would have been done in the UK.
25:53So are we also saying then that, are we also saying on the other side that on one hand it takes a, you know,
26:02it takes a village to raise a child.
26:04Definitely.
26:05It takes a village to raise a child.
26:05I mean, in, in, in Usain Bolt's case, you know, it took, it took, um, Glenn Mills,
26:11I think it's a, um,
26:12Yeah, yeah.
26:14Forgive me.
26:14Um, and as a result of that, that's one side of it, but is it on the other side,
26:20is it also because male, the male man, um, the competitive spirit, the ego, the part of us as that in a community
26:30then drives us to survival of the fittest.
26:33I'm happy you went there because as a question, why don't men build those communities, right?
26:39Women are more likely to have that community, a safe space to talk and open up and be their real selves, right?
26:46There's a whole evolution of it in the corporate space now, but men, we don't have that.
26:51Men don't share emotions for the most part.
26:53Why? Why?
26:54Because of that sale alpha male, right?
26:57That was taught to us.
26:58It was taught to us.
26:59So now when we begin to now show this, this perception of weakness and vulnerability,
27:04then you can't be the alpha male.
27:05And if you're not the alpha male, then there's only a matter of time that I'm cast out of the tribe.
27:13If I fall weak, then I'm going to be left behind.
27:15So I bandage up my wounds and I show up.
27:20We do it in the homes, right?
27:24As a father, I'm a young guy.
27:26I had kids young and I felt as a failure as a father.
27:31I felt like I wasn't doing good enough as a father.
27:33I wasn't doing good enough as a husband.
27:35And I was beating myself up, right?
27:39But I wanted to win as a father.
27:43I wanted to be a great father to my children.
27:46I understood I wasn't doing it well.
27:48So you know what I did?
27:49I surrounded myself.
27:51I decided to seek out guys who were fathering well and turn off an opportunity to get close to them,
27:58to learn, to ask questions.
28:01So I orchestrated my community around the areas that I wanted to win in.
28:08But men don't do that because we are self-sufficient.
28:11But wait, wait, wait.
28:13I need clarification on something.
28:15Not a problem.
28:15So where we are going down the road of men being, at that point, you're not the alpha.
28:23So you're coming into your own homes and you're trying to create that environment.
28:30Right.
28:30And also you then create by, in order to create that environment, you then by association are trying to create a community around you.
28:37In this case, to do what you could do and had control of, to be the best father you could be.
28:43Definitely.
28:43In that environment.
28:44But in the outer society, you are still not the alpha.
28:48And you're now trying to find a way to be some semblance or some type of alpha.
28:55Yeah.
28:55But the leader of the pack is still out there.
28:58So is it that you've been somewhat browbeat?
29:01So that's a whole different conversation where we have a wrong view and perception of leadership.
29:08So we have come up in the hierarchy.
29:10We have come through slavery and mass and those things.
29:13So when we ultimately think about leadership, we think masser in one way or the other.
29:18So what is also needed is a different view of leadership.
29:23Right.
29:23Where we can co-lead with our wives and co-lead with the women in our communities.
29:30Right.
29:30Different conversation.
29:31Right.
29:32So unless we now unpack that.
29:35Right.
29:36In terms of, I need to be alpha.
29:37We have to unlearn.
29:39We have to unlearn the thing as men.
29:40You need to be alpha.
29:41So let's.
29:42So do my favor.
29:43Say that again to your camera.
29:45We have.
29:45The need to be alpha is what is causing all this unnecessary.
29:49So that need for alpha is toxic masculinity and that is from a place of insecurity as a man.
29:56So because I'm insecure as an individual, I need an outlet to demonstrate my authority as a weak man.
30:03This reminds me of, I don't know if I shared this on manhood before, but in doing some research on the Olympics, right, what's some of the history I got was originally it was a way for men to share with each other skills and knowledge.
30:20So let me give an example.
30:21So let's say it was a running race.
30:23Whoever is the man who ran the fastest, he would now teach the other men how to run.
30:28Then I just use the new Olympic events.
30:29If you throw the javelin and he was, this man was the strong, then he would teach the other men.
30:33So all the men would meet, show off their skills, see who is the alpha.
30:37I'll use that one loosely.
30:39The alpha.
30:39But that alpha then would teach all the other men and then they would leave and go back to their village as better men.
30:45Correct.
30:46So that philosophy is core.
30:47But even that and that example is so powerful because the reason why that thrived, because the alpha male got sex, the alpha male got food, the alpha man's role was secured in the space.
30:59It comes back to the same basic needs that we have.
31:02The needs have not changed.
31:04Now, if it's okay, I know we need to go, I mean, a lot of, a real rich conversation here.
31:10And it's one of those things that we certainly don't want it to end.
31:13And Linda, you know, you've been very powerful in this conversation, not just with insight, but of course, even Johansson has been, for the most part, quiet through this episode.
31:22How do we, and we'll address this when we come back from break, how do we then course correct that programming to be alpha, to be competitive, that is clearly not serving us well?
31:39Yeah.
31:40Because in, in, in doing that, if you're, if you're not there, if you're not first in, in, in, in, in this particular case, then you automatically tell yourself you're last.
31:49Yeah.
31:49And society is also then perceiving that way.
31:52So there's a whole reprogramming that needs to start to take place.
31:57So people feel less like, I might be good in running, but I'm good in this.
32:01Yeah, we'll talk about that.
32:01I might be good in that, but I'm good in this.
32:03And it's okay.
32:04It's okay.
32:05More importantly, it's okay not to be, not that, not that you want to always teach everyone, you know, don't try to be your best, but being your best doesn't have to be number one.
32:13But we take a short break.
32:15When we come back, more conversation on community and continuity.
32:20The Mailman.
32:21Welcome back to Manhood.
32:33The discussion today is about community and continuity.
32:37All right.
32:38And Lyndon, I am enjoying this discussion because this is a, this has been a deficit for me in terms of how to find that community.
32:50Because it's something that I search for, but I'm unsure how to search.
32:54I know, I know the intention I have for, for my life, but finding others who have the same intention or even having the opportunity to refine my own intention is important.
33:09And I took a page already, you know, you know, they say, don't be the smartest person in the room.
33:13So I seek out rooms where I am not the smartest person or the richest person or whatever it is so I could, so I could learn.
33:20So based on what you say, and I think that's a good methodology for, for any man, you know, if you want to be better, you know, find men who better than you to do it.
33:28But then it also brings into question what we're talking about, the ego part of it.
33:32Because sometimes you want to be the best man in the room, but you may not be.
33:36So you would actually shy away from rooms where people are more competent than you, which, of course, would put you at a deficit.
33:42Because then you'll be existing in your own bubble, right?
33:46And you think, well, I see best and you must be operating three out of ten, where it have many other levels of it.
33:52So I am grateful for your analysis of the community, because when you ask that question, what it is really stopping us men from coming together?
34:03And when you said that at the moment, I only heard in my head all the cliched things.
34:10And I realized I'm tired here in the cliched things.
34:13I'm tired.
34:13Versus finding exactly what the **** it really is, if you understand what I'm saying now.
34:19So you're saying a bit quiet, but I really am in a lot in thought.
34:23Pensive.
34:23Pensive.
34:24Because I want to crack this code.
34:25So let me say this, and let's crack the code, right?
34:28But before, I want to continue there, and I have to interject, one, because there's something Johansi said about, you know, with the community.
34:38So first off, this in itself is part of a community.
34:41Yes.
34:42Right?
34:42That I think that you'd want to be part of, because we're doing something.
34:46But also, in that community, my thing is, you know, that saying in itself is almost contradicting what I was saying earlier, where you say, you know, don't be the smartest person in the room.
34:56But ultimately, if we continue to look like that, there is going to be someone, if you're not the smartest in the room, and that person themselves, who is then, if I am the smartest person in the room, and I know I want to live by that saying or that ethos, I'm going to say, okay, let me go and find another environment.
35:16So at some point, I'm saying that it must be the thinking.
35:21So in this room, if I'm coming in for number one, I'm not the best at that.
35:27But then I'm good at something so that there's equal sharing and understanding of you're number one at this, I might be number three.
35:37But I'm number one in this, you might be number two.
35:39And we're all sharing this room, but it has to be the mentality that we're not here to compete, that we're here in making sure the rising tide raises all ships.
35:49That's good.
35:49That's not a competitive thing.
35:51And that's where we need to be.
35:52And that's why I wanted to challenge it, right?
35:54Because, you know, if we aim at nothing, we hit it every time.
35:58Right?
35:58Right.
35:58So there's a philosophy I picked up from one of my mentors, Pastor Luke Comana, he's a giant in his space.
36:05And he said, get close to someone who has the harvest of the seed that you carry.
36:13Let me unpack it, right?
36:14All right.
36:15So if I want to win in the space of medicine, I need to find a guy who has multiple medicine practices or a hospital, right?
36:25They have the harvest for the seed that you carry.
36:29But the first part is understanding the value of the seed that you have.
36:33And if you don't value that seed, you would not invest in the soil to put it in because nurturing a seed is a lot of work.
36:41Right?
36:42So once you have that perspective, it's not about number one and number three and this.
36:47It's about me.
36:49I'm competing with me every day to develop the best version of myself.
36:55So when I ask a man, right?
36:57I do premarital counseling.
36:58I don't like to do marriage counseling at all.
37:00I do premarital counseling.
37:02I bring the guy in the room.
37:03I bring the girl in the room.
37:04I give them a piece of paper in their hand.
37:05Engagement in counter.
37:06Engagement in counter.
37:07Right?
37:07Here I do.
37:09I said, write down.
37:10So let's say you're the girl.
37:11Female man.
37:12Male man.
37:12Right?
37:12I said, write down his vision for his life and write down her vision for her life.
37:19They stutter.
37:20I said, write down their vision for their life, write down your vision for your life, and write down where you fit in that person's vision.
37:27They haven't been able to answer that question for years.
37:30We don't operate at the vision level.
37:32So if you don't have that vision for your life and the direction that you're going in, how can you build a community around it?
37:40You have no goal.
37:42You don't know what the end game is.
37:43You said something there, Lyndon, about that question that people can't answer, which is part of the issue.
37:49We have a friend in common, of course, Gola.
37:51And one of the most powerful things that she had shared with me at one point, you know, the importance of, you know, not jumping from relationship to the relationship, because you need that person in your life to be a witness for your life.
38:03Good.
38:03And if that person's your witness for your life, it also falls into that understanding, not just your witness, but the support, the pillar, and your best supporter.
38:14Right?
38:15And that person is going to applaud you and cheerlead for your life.
38:18But you can't be that if you don't understand what the vision is from the start.
38:23Definitely.
38:23Or you can't align with that.
38:25Definitely.
38:26If you don't understand or you align with it.
38:28And I would add, we often talk about authenticity and truth and the importance of knowing yourself and being your true self.
38:37And I think there's still a good link to the vision, because how you can know the vision if you're not even being your true self?
38:44If you don't even have a semblance, you don't have to understand fully who you are, because that's a evolving process along your life.
38:50But if you're not honest with yourself, because even if it's a vision where, let's say, it's not everybody's vision.
38:56Your vision is, I want to build a bridge between Trinidad and Tobago.
39:00I just gave you an example, right?
39:02That may not be everybody's vision, but that's your vision you hold on to because that's your true authentic self.
39:06People could say, boy, you're mad, you can't do that, et cetera.
39:09But once you've been your true authentic self, you would be able to find that vision and hold on to it.
39:14And then you can build that community or whatever around it.
39:18So the first part is discovery.
39:21Discovering what you carry and what you need to bring it to full potential.
39:25So just to answer, that could be because I want to get practical.
39:29We come to these things, it's nice inspiration.
39:31Then first, it's making a real sense.
39:33What do I do now?
39:34And that's where the whole role of mentorship comes to play, right?
39:38So you have to find guys who are winning in that lane.
39:42And then, you know, position yourself to get access to these persons.
39:47But here's the deficit in the nation.
39:50Who are the guys you want to get close to?
39:53The guys who are the forerunners, the guys in the forefront who are leading in different spaces, corporate, politics, community.
39:59We don't want to be like those guys.
40:01But let's, let's, let's...
40:03All in the, oh, I could tell you, you know, we're talking brass tacks here, right?
40:08I can tell you, you know, sometimes they tell you never meet your heroes.
40:11I was going to go right there.
40:12Yeah.
40:13So they tell you sometimes never meet your heroes.
40:15And I have met a couple people internationally who I would have looked up to and had the fortunate,
40:23I mean, I, I, before starting in this, in this business, you know, I had the, I was fortunate to be part of VT.
40:29And I remember getting invited to a function in New York.
40:33I was living out there and I went to the function.
40:35And, you know, we talk about our brothers and how we don't band together.
40:38And you think that that's just a, you know, we talk a lot of times as if it's just something in Trinidad.
40:42It's across the board.
40:43In Caribbean.
40:43It's across the board.
40:44And I went to this function and some of the big boys were there.
40:47And I thought to myself, hey, boy, this is, this, I'm going to make it here.
40:50It's the moment.
40:51This is my moment because I invited to the space, they're there, you know, I ching, ching in some glasses.
40:56You're on equal footing.
40:57You're on equal footing.
40:58They're going to bring me into the fold and I'm going to be there, be there with the brothers.
41:02I'm making it, right?
41:05And total opposite.
41:08I, you know, apart from the accent, you know, you're black.
41:13But on top of that, no, you're black Caribbean.
41:15So there are different levels.
41:16You're not black American.
41:18And then if you're not, you're not, you're not black American, but then you're also a black American in my class.
41:24So you think that, no, I just want to bring you into the fold.
41:26What are you offering?
41:27What are you bringing to the space right now to them?
41:31And it was a, it was a real eye opener.
41:34You know, that wasn't my moment.
41:36It was my moment to understand that it wasn't my moment and it might not be my moment.
41:40And really being at that point, as we talk about authentic self where your community is and your ego and, and leading and being the smartest person in the room and all of these other things.
41:51It really comes down to something that you had mentioned when I asked you the question of what it takes to be a man and what it takes to be a man to be you is grounded.
42:00Yeah.
42:00You must be grounded in something, grounded in that spirituality.
42:05So no matter where, what room, what you want to be, you know, I am okay.
42:10I am okay to continue.
42:12So I would say that, you know, one of the things I've struggled with is always the question, who am I?
42:18Right?
42:19And I, I no longer ask my, ask myself that question because I'm a different person from day to day.
42:24Like, it's shed your skin.
42:26You know, it's always, who do I want to be?
42:28And so that's good, right?
42:29Not be like it.
42:30Yeah, that, that's good.
42:31And, and the thing is important for us to add a lay on top of this because we want to, we want to land the plane as well too, right?
42:37We can't talk authenticity without accountability.
42:41Let's, let's talk that.
42:41Self-governance, yeah.
42:42Right?
42:43But it's the reality.
42:44So you met your hero and some of us, we have met our heroes and got disappointed.
42:48Right.
42:48Right?
42:50But let me, let me, let me, let me shed some light on something.
42:52You are someone's hero.
42:55Oof.
42:57Wouldn't you be disappointed when they meet you?
43:00How are you as a man right now?
43:02I see it.
43:03Wow.
43:05You, you are someone's hero.
43:07Hey.
43:08If they meet you in the street or see you in the grocery store, is it, this is that, is this the manhood man that I've been listening to, whatever it is.
43:17And that is where the accountability comes in.
43:20The, the, the, the, the, the, the less self-governance you have, that is where the greater need for external governance comes to play.
43:27Right?
43:28But it's also just human and that, and that pressure.
43:31Well, we can't, we can't, we can't give that, we can't give that excuse all the time.
43:34Well done, when I'm saying that you, when you meet your heroes, I am talking about, you have an impression of them, of being someone that, you.
43:43Above human.
43:43Above.
43:44When, when we have heroes, we just pedestalize them on something.
43:47Correct.
43:47Don't, don't give the humanity to them.
43:49So, so.
43:50My, my, my, with, with, in terms of when I say hero, it wasn't that they were superhuman.
43:56It was that they were, they had attributes, behaviors, characteristics that I wanted to emulate.
44:02Right.
44:03Right?
44:03And I'm saying, so, so, so there are different reasons.
44:05If you look at somebody as superhuman, you meet them and then, and they're less than that because you pedestalize that person, then that's one thing.
44:12I'm speaking of, in this, in this particular case, it was behaviors, it was characteristics.
44:16It was, hey, you are cool.
44:18Right.
44:18And when, when I, what I wanted to say is, in that BET environment, it wasn't even like you said, you used the words met.
44:26It was the environment of not even getting to that point because of the behaviors of that particular person.
44:33Now, can I look and I see that person was human and having a bad day and all the rest of it?
44:38Of course, people have a bad day and something's going through your mind and you don't know and you're trying to meet them at that particular point.
44:43I'm talking about the learned behavior of that person, people in the circle that I found out about that individual.
44:51Right.
44:52Right?
44:52And that's what was disappointing to know that that's what that person is on a regular basis.
44:57If someone meets me, if I'm someone's hero, I'd like to think that I'm my son's hero.
45:01You know, and, and if I'm, if somebody meets me, they think, hey, you know, on that particular day, he didn't talk to me or he shut up.
45:08I mean, you don't know what I might be going through at that particular point.
45:11But am I generally a d***, I would like to think?
45:14No.
45:15Right.
45:15So, so let me say, let me say two things, right?
45:17I would like to think.
45:18So people will have, people will have grace for your mistakes, but they won't have grace for your deception.
45:24Right?
45:24So you can be human.
45:25You'll make mistakes.
45:26You're frail.
45:27But if I say an intentional effort to deceive me, I'll cancel you.
45:31That's one.
45:31That's a reality.
45:33Two, you said somebody, you're a son that's powerful.
45:34I have two sons, right?
45:35You said you're your son's hero.
45:37Right?
45:38But which, which version of you?
45:39If your son sees the entirety of your life on a scale, would this version of daddy not be his hero?
45:48And that is the degree of awareness that we have to live with and then build towards it every single day.
45:58That doesn't happen by yourself.
46:00Again, that is why the community comes into play.
46:03A lot of us, we build community on people who like us.
46:07Right?
46:07You're fans.
46:10Right?
46:11But you have to build community where guys can hold you to account.
46:16Right?
46:16I was having a conversation with my wife recently.
46:18I said, babe, if I begin to trip off, right, and veer from the person that you know, I said, who are the people that you can call right now to pull me square?
46:29And she rattled five or six names.
46:33Five or six names.
46:35And they're sitting up there without one.
46:37And listen to me.
46:38Those guys, if they call my phone now, I'm vulnerable to them because I respect them and I know they love me.
46:45I know the thing that is saying to me, even though it will be abrasive any moment.
46:50Let me say this example.
46:51I know how time is going, right?
46:52I preached for a long time.
46:53I was a pastor for a long, long time.
46:55I'm still a pastor, but in a different capacity.
46:57Right?
46:58And I sent one of my messages to one of my mentors.
47:01Right?
47:02I preached a good message.
47:04The message was good.
47:05Right?
47:05People respond.
47:06Think.
47:07I thought it was a powerful message.
47:09You know what the guy said to me?
47:10It was a good message.
47:12He said, I'm hearing your hurt.
47:16Right?
47:16I'm hearing your hurt.
47:18And he said, be careful that your hurt is now being poured out to the people that are listening to you.
47:25He said, you're in a very dangerous position right now.
47:29Listen to me.
47:30Listen to me.
47:31Listen to me.
47:31I need to preach.
47:32Listen to me.
47:33I need to preach because we need to wrap.
47:36And this is one, you know, I know I say it on a regular basis, but Johan said, I'm sure we could all agree that this is one that I would love to have an extension on.
47:45And, Linda, you will definitely be invited back.
47:47I'd love to be in this space.
47:48Because there's so much more to speak about.
47:51And I know we need to go around the semicircle very quickly sharing our thoughts.
47:57And it might be hard to summarize because there was so much in this community and continuity.
48:01And it went in a direction that I didn't think would be as powerful as it ended up.
48:06And to share our nuggets.
48:08And I just wanted to say that, you know, when you mention about community, you know, I have a couple.
48:13You know, I'd like to think I have a few friends.
48:16But in those few friends, and when I say a few friends, I don't mean it in any sense I only have one or two.
48:22I mean a few as in, you know, I like to think that in different communities from the different persons that I am.
48:28You know, if I want to be wild and I can have a group that I go with, I'm partying, different things.
48:33But the people that I would say, you know, to just the name of a few, you know, Joshua Wiskuna, John Wiskuna, Vince, who was on the show before.
48:42What sets them apart is that they see me.
48:46They, you know, my cousin Stuart, you know, that the person, remember I said about the difference between who am I and who do you want to be?
48:55And not who do you want to be like, but who do you want to be?
49:00And if I can answer a couple of those questions, and these friends, they won't involve, they won't, I can't be there like, hey, do you find that girl nice boy?
49:09Or you do find me should go and take a, you know, drink of it?
49:12They're not a nut.
49:13And as a result, when I'm, if I come wrong them with that, you know what I mean, the conversation's not entertained.
49:19And I admire, respect, and look to that to keep me grounded on the cause that I know I want to be.
49:29Not who I want to be like, who I want to be to ultimately keep me grounded, to be God-fearing.
49:36Because no matter what, we're coming back down to it.
49:40You're seeing what you're doing, right?
49:43So, again, for the most part, powerful conversation.
49:51I'm very, Johan, say you want to.
49:54This was an important conversation for me because it highlighted for me even more my deficit in forming male community.
50:03And I'm happy because we talk about accountability, again, and even, Robert, you disagree with me, smartest person, not being the smartest person, but in this instance, you have the competence in terms of the community.
50:17And I'm glad that I'm here to even learn, learn from it because, again, I hear it all the time.
50:23I experience it.
50:24Why men can't come together?
50:26Why this?
50:26Why that?
50:26And I really want to understand why, one, and to be part of a healthy community.
50:32I mean, I have people I could call on, but at the same time, this is later in my life, right?
50:37I'm now having that experience.
50:39When I say healthy, I've always had partners and part of a team, et cetera, but that healthy male community is something that I'm now starting to experience.
50:50So even for those out there, men who are even looking for a healthy male community, I hope you all were able to see this episode and take it in and even leave 1% with some 1% direction and intention into what they want.
51:03So just a quick, the authenticity, first, you knowing the discovery of what you even want so that you could put all the right intention to get what you want.
51:12Yeah.
51:13Yeah.
51:13Let me jump in here.
51:16My final thoughts.
51:18I really appreciate your words.
51:20They meant a lot.
51:21It opened up my mind a lot.
51:25The major takeaway for me is the intention behind community, which is the whole point of this topic, where now, rather than me thinking that I'm so clever and so smart and I feel like I'm smarter than everybody else, and I have this kind of loner.
51:42I don't need anybody else.
51:43I can figure it out on my own.
51:45I realize that that is actually not the best way to be a man because there's nobody holding me to a scale.
51:54There's no one to say, yo, you're a little off the mark here.
51:58There's nobody there.
51:59So I realize that I was a little floored in my thinking.
52:02So now, I know that I should be actively seeking out mentorship, especially in spaces that I might not be the strongest in.
52:14All right?
52:14And, again, I really appreciate that.
52:18So, guys, seek mentorship.
52:21Talk to men or women who could give you a positive, in fact, not positive, who could hold you accountable for your f***ing.
52:33That's basically what it come along to, you know?
52:36Yeah.
52:38Final thought, Eliad Kepchoge is a guy that I admire.
52:42When I picked up long distance running, so first person to ever run a sub-two-hour marathon, right?
52:50And I was watching a documentary and he said that, he said something that changed my life forever.
52:53He said that 100% of him is less than 1% of his team.
53:02A hundred percent of him is less than 1% of his team.
53:09Okay.
53:10You know, John Maxwell said it this way, one is too small a number for significance.
53:14So, once you understand the value of what you carry, that grows exponentially based on the people that you surround yourself with.
53:24I learned that principle a couple of years.
53:26I'm a young guy, right?
53:27People call me.
53:28I'm an old guy, right?
53:30So, value yourself enough to build a community around you to harness what is already within you.
53:39So, you are as great as your community.
53:43That's my final thoughts.
53:46Oh, gentlemen.
53:48I, as you mentioned quotes in there, you know, Kepchoge, another one, you know, he's a, a, a, he's one that I look up to.
53:57He's a beast.
53:57He's a beast.
53:58When you start to understand, as you mentioned, long distance running, you know, a guy who does like a four, four and a half minute mile.
54:04I mean, at, at that pace for a marathon, having, you know, um, you know, done one myself, nowhere near to, nowhere, he's doing sub two, I try to do sub ten, right?
54:16Big, big difference.
54:17But, you know, a lot of these guys are very inspirational.
54:20You know, Muhammad Ali himself would say that, you know, his, his training starts when the pain starts.
54:25He starts counting.
54:26So, like, if he, if he's doing a hundred sit-ups, right, only when it's hurting and when, when it's, he can't do any more is when he starts to count for, for that particular set.
54:35So, there's a lot, there's a lot to take in people that are great, the smartest person in the room.
54:40There are always things to take away, but you still have to be grounded, as I'm saying, in, in, in all those situations, in being, um, inspired, um, by other persons who have done it.
54:52Or who are, who are, who are there where you think you want to be, but still to be grounded in knowing who you are, which is one of the most important things, I think.
55:01And in, in doing that is also to know that you are, you are, you are there where you desire to be.
55:09So, if your community isn't where you want to be and know that's what you want to do, then change that.
55:15Change it.
55:16Change.
55:17Very simple.
55:17Change your mindset.
55:19If it can't change the people around you.
55:20Change the people.
55:21Change the people around you.
55:22Bottom line.
55:23It's good.
55:24So, community continuity, very powerful.
55:26I, myself, I'm going to be watching this particular episode.
55:31Me too.
55:31Again and again and again.
55:33Um, it's been very powerful, very much inspired.
55:36Thank you, um, Johanse, Lyndon, for your thoughts.
55:40Um, please come back.
55:42Here for it.
55:43Niall.
55:44Powerful, powerful conversation.
55:47Manhood.
55:47Manhood.
55:48Mailman.
55:51Manhood.
55:56Brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.