WRIF Virtual Rock Room with Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson
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00:00Thank you so much for watching Riff TV. Now, this interview is obviously with video, but I don't interview everybody on Zoom.
00:07That's why I put it on my Talkin' Rock with Meltdown podcast. We talk to rock artists from all over the genre.
00:13So check out Talkin' Rock with Meltdown wherever you get your podcasts. And now, to today's video interview.
00:20Ian, good to see you. Thank you so much for the time.
00:22Well, I wasn't doing anything terribly important. Well, unless you think about rehearsing for a concert I'm about to do when I fly to Reykjavik tomorrow morning.
00:34But other than that, I'm going to take an hour off this evening and just do something I don't usually do, which is watch television.
00:44Oh, is that right?
00:46That's all right. How come we don't watch television?
00:48Because what I watch isn't what everybody else wants to watch. That's the problem.
00:56I'm more interested in documentaries and history programs and stuff, but it doesn't necessarily suit everyone else.
01:04So I tend to retire early and go to bed early and wake up early.
01:11Well, I'll be certainly waking up early tomorrow. It'll be 3.15 a.m. I have to get up because I have a very early flight to Iceland.
01:20Oh, is that right?
01:21It's far away anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't worry about me. I'm fine.
01:24Oh, yeah. No, excellent. So Rock Flute is out. That dropped last month.
01:28And Concept album. You've been putting out some records pretty regularly here, huh?
01:33Well, the previous record, The Zealot Gene, was actually recorded in the summer of 2017.
01:45But I only, by the end of that year, because of the pressure of touring, I'd only really finished four tracks.
01:51And the rest of it was put on hold due to the pressure of touring.
01:56And then COVID came along, and that meant enforced lockdown and no opportunity for working together with the guys in the band.
02:04So it wasn't actually finished and delivered to the record company until the summer of 2021 and released in January 2022,
02:16by which time I'd already started work on Rock Flutter, which was a project that began on the 1st of January of 2022.
02:25And finally, after the usual interminable wait, due to the time it takes to get vinyl manufactured and pressed, it just finally came out 10 days ago.
02:39Yeah, you know, you just mentioned that.
02:42So back in the day when, you know, back in the 70s and 80s and stuff with Jethro Tull, it didn't take this long to press vinyl, did it?
02:48No, you could finish a record and probably have it released in certainly no more than a month or so,
02:56because there were, in every country, there would be several manufacturing facilities.
03:02And that's not the case any longer.
03:04You know, there are very few pressing plants left, and those that there are are working flat out these days,
03:11because everybody wants to release a vinyl version of their product,
03:14because there is a small but definable profit margin in physical product and CDs are dropping away year on year.
03:23So vinyl, whilst it may not be big numbers, it's still quite important, both to record companies and to the artists,
03:29to actually try and make a little bit of money, because streaming earns you almost nothing at all.
03:34So because of that, the very few pressing plants still in action are flat out,
03:38and the waiting time is most of the major record companies will quote you a year from delivery of an album to actually having it released.
03:48But you can book it in ahead, and indeed, the next album is already scheduled for manufacture to be released in October of 2024.
04:00But you really do have to think ahead and commit yourself a long time ahead to writing, rehearsing, recording an album,
04:10together with all the artwork, which is these days very complex due to the box sets.
04:14Again, something that earns a definitive small profit for everybody.
04:18And so you put a lot more work into making a record than perhaps you had to do back in the 70s.
04:25It's maybe three, four times as much work with all the different formats you've got to release in and surround sound and so on and so forth.
04:33It's a gargantuan task.
04:36Yeah, so you just mentioned that.
04:38So are you already working on stuff for the next record, you say?
04:42Yeah, I came up with an idea on the 1st of January of 2023.
04:47And that's my resolve is to work through during this year to get that ready for rehearsal and recording in January and February of next year.
05:00Wow, man, that's unbelievable.
05:04So you're really cranking out a lot of material.
05:06You know, I thought that I was going to be talking to you, maybe that the 2022 record of Zelligine was your pandemic record.
05:11But like you said, that was kind of already started long before the pandemic.
05:15It seems like a lot of the bands I talk to nowadays, this is their pandemic record, whatever they're putting out in 2023.
05:21But that's not the case for you.
05:22Well, not really, no, the album was finished during the pandemic because I gave up waiting for the opportunity to get together with the other guys.
05:32I decided I'd better just record the last five songs for the album on my own at home.
05:37And that was what I had to do.
05:40Although we did resume live concert touring in the end of August of 2021.
05:47We started going out and about around Europe and with a few hesitations, a few further postponements and rescheduling due to COVID flare ups, we managed to keep going since.
05:59And this year we are already, I think there's only been one or two tours that we've done so far this year that we're catching up with rescheduled ones from the last three years.
06:13But now everything is pretty much on an even keel, fingers crossed.
06:19We will continue to work this year and next.
06:23Did you find yourself during the pandemic missing the live performance?
06:29I tried not to stop and think about it too much.
06:31I mean, I spent endless hours in the office because all of the rescheduling and, you know, trying to get me back for all the flights that I'd paid for and hotels and everything.
06:40I mean, it was a constant job, really, of trying to salvage and rebuild the touring schedules for the future.
06:49And in some cases it was done, done again and yet again.
06:53I think we played in Finland towards the end of last year and it was the fourth scheduling of that tour.
07:01You know, it was cancelled back in February of 2020 and then, or beginning of March 2020 and then subsequently two more reschedulings and, you know, again, COVID stepped in and meant it got put off until finally we did it.
07:22And, of course, those people had bought their tickets back in 2019 and they didn't get to see Jethro Tull until towards the end of last year.
07:29So, yeah.
07:31You know, with the new record and stuff, how's that going over with the crowds?
07:37Well, I think Jethro Tull audiences are far too polite to say we don't like that, but we've only played a couple of songs so far.
07:45We're, I think, actually only in two concerts.
07:49Thursday will be the third concert that we will have played some new material from this album.
07:57But we've been playing music from the cell at Jean as well during the last 18 months.
08:02And so it seems to be pretty well received, bearing in mind, you know, audiences don't really come to see old bands play new material.
08:12Understandably, they want to hear the classic repertoire.
08:16And I understand that.
08:17And we fulfill that expectation to some degree in the set lists without hopefully repeating ourselves too much in terms of more recent years of visiting those countries.
08:31So we try and vary it quite a bit.
08:34Nonetheless, you know, there will be some new material and people will either listen to it politely or maybe enjoy it or maybe just take a quick toilet break.
08:45So bands from your era, I mean, a lot of them, they tend to just, you know, kind of tour on their past records and songs and whatnot.
08:54How important is it for you to release new music and write new music?
09:00As long as I'm a musician, it is obviously very important.
09:03But there are other things, I suppose, that I've got used to in my head in the last 20 years or so that there has to be more to life than just doing one thing.
09:12And for some, well, in fact, for 20 years from the late 70s onwards, for the next 20 years, I was very active in the world of marine aquaculture.
09:22So that was another side to my life.
09:26But having given that up in the new millennium, I have looked at other things that interest me, mainly from a point of view of study and learning.
09:37So I read a lot and I try and use my time to better understand the world around me and the spiritual world around me, too, not just materialistic or historical events.
09:51So I try to touch upon the elements of spirituality that I think are very much a part of our sense of being, even if many of us either have forgotten it or just afraid to look it in the eye, which I think is the case with many people.
10:10They actually are nervous about the unknowable.
10:14And I rather like the unknowable.
10:19That intrigues me and makes me certainly interested to take on the impossible task of getting to know what is unknowable.
10:29Yeah, I was going to ask you if the unknowable made you nervous, but it looks like you study it and it's something that interests you, eh?
10:35Well, it certainly used to make me nervous.
10:36I remember absolute fear of going in churches when I was a child, and that persisted through my teenage years.
10:47But probably from my 20s onwards, I did have an interest, and that has expanded.
10:53And I rarely visit a city in the world and don't go into the cathedral or to a nearby church just because I'm interested in the history of the architecture and the way in which people practice religions a little bit differently in different places.
11:10You know, if you attend a Catholic mass in Italy, it's not going to be the same as attending, you know, a Sunday service in the world of Lutherism in northwestern Europe, which is, again, where I'm going tomorrow.
11:26It's a Lutheran cathedral in Reykjavik, and the great monumental church, Hallsgrimkirke, which I played in a few years ago in a Christmas concert for charity.
11:40You know, these are remarkable places, whether they were built 20 years ago or, in the case of many British cathedrals, more than 1,000 years ago.
11:51That's interesting.
11:52Or about 1,000 years ago.
11:53Yeah, I mean, we don't have nothing over here like that in the U.S., for sure.
11:57So how many churches of historical reverence would you say that you visited in your time of touring?
12:04Well, I played in most of the cathedrals in the U.K., something I do every year.
12:08I do fundraiser concerts for cathedrals.
12:13I played in quite a few churches in Europe, including Catholic churches, which we're not supposed to do because of the edict from the Vatican back in the 80s, which made it clear that secular music should not be played in Catholic churches, nor should tickets be sold for a musical performance.
12:32But, you know, frankly, keeping the roof on does take a precedence, and local priests have bent the rules.
12:39And so far, Papa Frank has not made a stink about it.
12:47So I guess he knows full well that these things do take place, and it's for a good cause.
12:53Now, were you raised in a family like me where your parents made you go to church on Sunday and maybe you didn't want to?
12:58And then the older you get, you're going, maybe I should head back to some of these places.
13:04They did, which was ironic because they themselves were not really churchgoers.
13:09I mean, maybe they were when they were younger, but certainly not during the time I was growing up.
13:14So being sent off alone to Sunday service was something that was utterly terrifying.
13:20But now, you know, I walk into a church, I feel very much at home.
13:25It's my place of work because every year I do, I work for the church.
13:29And so I feel very much at home in churches and cathedrals around the world.
13:34It's something I've grown to not just to respect and to involve myself with,
13:42but I have a great sense of peace and a sense of touching the infinite,
13:49which is what that should be about for all the people who enter into what is a portal to a world beyond,
13:58and a portal that might go under the guise of Anglicanism or Judaism or Islam.
14:05It's a portal.
14:08That's what religion or religions, plural, should be.
14:12They are a gateway.
14:14They aren't necessarily in themselves everything, although clearly some adherents would claim that they were.
14:21But I do feel that, you know, it is a door that is slightly cracked open.
14:28You can just see the light coming from it.
14:30And it's up to you whether you want to go and push that door open and just look inside
14:34or whether you just want to stay on the outside and, you know, watch the football game and drink yourself into a stupor.
14:41It's up to you.
14:42Yeah.
14:43Yeah.
14:44It's, yeah.
14:45You were talking about earlier before about the unknown and stuff, and this might be a crazy question.
14:49But are you a believer in, like, paranormal or anything like that?
14:53Well, I'm not a disbeliever.
14:54My own sense of spiritual reality for me is more along the lines of pantheism or actually panentheism,
15:12which panentheism is sort of grade two pantheist.
15:18But the ideas of it are really based on lack of faith.
15:26And I can't really be a true blue Christian because I am not, I don't have faith and I don't worship.
15:31I don't believe, I believe in the power of prayer as being worth a great deal to the individual,
15:37or if it's in a social gathering, it has a great value.
15:40But in terms of achieving anything, I think it's, for me, not something I can go along with.
15:46So I can't really be a true Christian, but it doesn't stop me from supporting Christianity,
15:50which I have a huge respect and love for.
15:53But I can't be a Christian.
15:55And so I'm one who believes in, not in certainties, because having faith implies certainty.
16:04And I don't do certainty.
16:05I live in a world of possibilities and even probabilities.
16:08So I think it is very high on the list of probabilities that there was a Jesus of Nazareth
16:15who did more or less what we are told in the New Testament.
16:19But Jesus, the Christ, I am not so confident about.
16:24You know, Jesus, the slightly radical Jewish prophet.
16:31Yeah, for sure.
16:32I'm quite happy with accepting that.
16:37And, you know, and again, I think probably the thing about Islam that appeals to me is
16:41the fact that it is a much purer, it is the Apple Mac of religion in the sense that it
16:48is minimalist, it is simplistic in a belief in a creator.
16:55And whilst Muhammad is the prophet, Allah is really everything.
17:04And one thing I find uncomfortable about Christianity is the Holy Trinity, which is
17:08something I'm struggling with to really accept.
17:15It's a little bit too avatar-like when we get to trying to fit Jesus into a very lofty position.
17:25But nonetheless, it tells a great story.
17:28It's a great tale.
17:29And the success of Christianity over other religions is that it tells a story.
17:34It has a beginning and it has a middle and it has an end.
17:38And not only an end, but it has the prophet of a series two on Netflix.
17:42So, you know, there is that promise of something more to come, which I think is a great uplifting
17:46feeling to have.
17:48You know, there is, as in most religions, there is a day of reckoning beyond which we
17:55might look to a happier new beginning.
18:01And that is touched upon in this album, you know, in the terms of Norse mythology.
18:08Ragnarok is the end of day scenario.
18:12But the final track on the album called Ithavol is about the new beginning in Norse religion.
18:20So many, many religions share these common elements, which I find interesting, fascinating,
18:29and give more credibility to a general spiritual purity, even if I am not aligned to any one
18:36religion.
18:36Yeah, you just wrapped it up there in a nice little bow here.
18:40Real fast, I just want to ask you a couple more things here and we'll cut you loose.
18:43What do you think of the term prog rock and Jethro Tull being involved in those kind of
18:48conversations?
18:49Well, I was always very pleased when in 1969, I read in the British music press the term
18:56progressive rock.
18:58And Jethro Tull was cited amongst two or three other bands as being examples of progressive
19:03rock, which was a new term at that point.
19:07And I found that quite energizing, really.
19:12But prog, as it became known a couple of years later, did tend to have some derogatory
19:17associations with self-indulgence and a rather overly confident view about your musician skills,
19:27et cetera.
19:27So prog got a bit of a bad name, but I can accept it, I think, with a smile on my face.
19:34I don't mind being referred to as a prog band.
19:37But progressive rock is a slightly more formal way of describing fear of boredom.
19:46Because I think what drives progressive rock musicians is basically becoming bored with
19:52simplistic music in the world of pop and rock music, that there has to be something a bit
19:57more, something a bit deeper that can occupy you and your skills as a musician.
20:03So I think that's what drives progressive rock musicians, is looking for something that's
20:09got a bit more detail, a bit more depth, a bit more enrichment, both to listen to and as
20:15a performer.
20:15But nonetheless, it will, of course, strike some people as being very self-indulgent, and
20:20I can understand that.
20:23It's not for everybody.
20:25Yeah, I've become much more of a progressive rock guy in my later years, in the last 10
20:29or 15 years.
20:30Actually, since discovering vinyl, I've really gotten into that.
20:33You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you about when they told me that I was going
20:35to be talking with you is that scene in Anchorman, did you know that was coming, or did they
20:41have to ask your permission, or did you see it take it by surprise?
20:47Well, it had been mentioned to me, and so I saw the movie, and, you know, quite clearly
20:54it derived elements from my performance in Jethro Tull.
21:01But I always thought that it owed more to a friend of mine by the name of Tony Snow, who
21:09was the White House Press Secretary for George W. Bush.
21:16Tony was a keen flute player, and indeed I met him when he was working for Fox as a news
21:22presenter that he came to interview me, and we became good friends.
21:26Obviously, he was from the ideological right in terms of being a staunch Republican, but
21:36nonetheless, he was a listening kind of a guy.
21:38He was greatly respected and loved by Democrats and Republicans alike.
21:44Sadly, he succumbed to colon cancer after a long period of remission, and he didn't make
21:54it, but it's interesting that Tony, I think, in many ways may have been more the model for
22:00that character, because he was a TV presenter.
22:04So he fitted the mold exactly, but I think they borrowed a little bit of performance stuff
22:10from my character as well.
22:12But that's fine.
22:12I mean, it's funny.
22:14It's funny because it is actually very well written and skillfully presented.
22:18But the archetypal rock manifestation in terms of movies, really, you can never surpass
22:29Spinal Tap and the story of Anvil, which is in a documentary, a true documentary style
22:40as opposed to a spoof documentary.
22:41But the story of Anvil is a great, very real story of overcoming odds.
22:53If you haven't seen that movie, I'm sure you'll find it somewhere.
22:59But it's a great movie about a Canadian sort of heavy rock band who have fallen on hard
23:04times and struggling to try and get themselves back onto an even keel and do some gigs.
23:11And it's a heartbreaking but wonderful story.
23:15Yeah, it was very touching.
23:16I saw that documentary.
23:17And of course, we're close to Canada.
23:19And I remember those guys from when I was a kid.
23:21But you're right.
23:22You really sympathize with those guys.
23:25Yes, they just wouldn't give up.
23:28And they didn't give up.
23:29And in fact, I met them in an airport on their way to Norway to play in a festival.
23:34And they'd come all the way from Canada, I think, just to play one gig.
23:37They were so desperate to do anything.
23:38They probably made no money or even lost money doing it.
23:41But they were just so happy to be out there playing.
23:45And even more happy when I went over to them, having recognized the singer, and just quietly
23:51said, I just want you to know, I watched your movie.
23:55And I thought it was a great and very touching story.
23:57And keep at it.
23:59Well done.
23:59And he didn't know who I was at that point anyway.
24:03But then when he discovered, when I was checking in at another check-in desk, he came rushing
24:09over and threw his arms around me and smothered me with kisses because he was just so pleased
24:15that some guy from Jethro Tull came and was nice to him.
24:19So, yeah, I am touched by the plight that many musicians find themselves in, either right
24:27from the beginning or maybe having had a bit of a positive start.
24:32And then they fall from grace and everything goes horribly wrong.
24:35But Anvil didn't give up.
24:37Anvil just kept plugging away.
24:39And as far as I know, they are still out and about, even to this day.
24:43Yeah, I saw him play not too long ago.
24:44I think it was just pre-COVID.
24:46But, you know, it's funny, that Tony Snow story that you mentioned, I didn't realize
24:49that you were friends with Tony Snow.
24:50And, of course, like you said, we lost him.
24:52They even have a Tony Snow studio and whatnot.
24:54I interview tons of singers and tons of guitar players and drummers and stuff.
24:58But I can't say I've ever interviewed anyone like you.
25:01You're kind of on an island of your own, aren't you, as far as rock and roll is concerned,
25:05being a flute player?
25:08Well, not entirely.
25:09I think prior to Jethro Tull's inception in January of 1968, there was already a flute player
25:18who would be known to quite a lot of people.
25:21His name was Ray Thomas.
25:22He played with the Moody Blues.
25:23He played tambourine as well as the flute and was kind of a backup singer, I think.
25:30But who else was there around that time?
25:34Oh, yeah.
25:34So Chris Wood from the band Traffic was a saxophone player primarily.
25:39He played a little flute.
25:41And there was a guy in King Crimson as well who played some flute.
25:47And so I wasn't the only one.
25:51But I guess I was louder than the others because it was given a bit more prominence in the arrangement.
25:58And the music itself, I suppose, was a challenge to try and make the flute the equal of the electric guitar.
26:09In the early Jethro Tull.
26:10So I had to learn to play it in a way that perhaps other flute players did not, where maybe it was more of a decorative element, whereas it was the blood and guts of some of the music in terms of my songwriting and performance.
26:24But I'm not the only flute player around.
26:27There have been a few who had a go at it.
26:29Even Peter Gabriel in Genesis had a bit of a go at playing the flute, but it didn't last very long, I don't think.
26:36Yeah, you really brought it to the forefront.
26:38No question about it.
26:39Well, Ian, last question here for you.
26:40Where do you display your heavy metal Grammy?
26:42Where is that?
26:43Is that in your house somewhere?
26:43Well, my son actually found it a few years ago.
26:47It had disappeared for about 20 years, and he stumbled upon it.
26:51He came to the camera and said, what is this?
26:52And I said, oh, that's the Grammy.
26:54Where did you find that?
26:55And he said, oh, it was in one of the bedrooms upstairs in a cupboard somewhere.
26:58And I said, oh, well, there you go.
27:00And since I have not seen it advertised on eBay, I must assume that he actually returned it to the cupboard that it came from.
27:10But I haven't seen it again since.
27:11I haven't gone looking for it.
27:12But I am not disparaging or negative about peer group accolades.
27:19It's very nice to have people enjoy your work, especially when it's the 5,000 voting members of the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences.
27:28But it's not something that I want to revel in.
27:35I am not a trophy hunter.
27:38You don't find Grammys in my house displayed or gold albums on the wall or the head of a moose that I have shot with a large caliber rifle.
27:49I'm just not that kind of a guy.
27:50I don't do trophies.
27:52I got you.
27:54All right.
27:54Well, Ian, an honor and a privilege to talk to you.
27:56So it's really great to do records out right now.
27:59And maybe we'll see over here in the States sometime in the future.
28:02Well, we are scheduled to do three tours.
28:04And I was just informed today that our visa petitions have gone through.
28:09And so we have a visit to the U.S. Embassy in London in the early part of June.
28:14And hopefully we will be armed with the correct paperwork and passports with a visa in when it comes to arriving on the shores of the USA.
28:24We're actually flying into Chicago in the middle of August.
28:27All of our U.S. dates are on our website now.
28:29So you can see where we're playing during August, September, October and into November.
28:35All right, Ian.
28:35Thank you so much for your time.
28:37We really appreciate it.
28:38All right.
28:38Nice to talk to you.
28:39Take care.
28:39Bye-bye now.
28:40Bye-bye now.