WRIF Virtual Rock Room with Pearl Jam's Stone Gossard
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00:00Thank you so much for watching Riff TV.
00:02Now, this interview is obviously with video, but I don't interview everybody on Zoom.
00:07That's why I put it on my Talkin' Rock with Meltdown podcast.
00:10We talk to rock artists from all over the genre.
00:13So check out Talkin' Rock with Meltdown wherever you get your podcasts.
00:16And now, to today's video interview.
00:21Stoney, you're already making me laugh.
00:23We just started.
00:23I never even had a chance to meet you before, and already I'm cracking up because we're
00:27talking about different things off camera.
00:29So how are you?
00:30I'm doing great.
00:32You know, beautiful day in Seattle.
00:33It stopped raining, so we're happy.
00:36You can say that for a beautiful day in Seattle.
00:39I've never been there before, but I mean, obviously, it's known for the rain, right?
00:43Yeah, we get some moisture, and it's a good thing.
00:47It makes you stay inside and mess around with your guitar.
00:51Yeah, I got you.
00:52Yeah, I hear you there.
00:52Anyways, we want to talk about your records, Pearl Jam, Tiger Cub.
00:59I mean, there's so many things to get into with.
01:02But first of all, let's talk about Loose Groove Records.
01:04Now, you started this 27, 28 years ago.
01:07Is that right?
01:09Yeah, I keep saying 22, but you know how you get, as you get older, you just keep missing
01:13about five years.
01:14That's true, yeah.
01:15Yeah, that sounds about right.
01:1627 years ago, I started it with one of my dearest friends and influencers, Regan Hagar,
01:24who was in Malfunction and was really influential musically in Seattle, wonderful guy.
01:31And we did that for about, I don't know, seven or eight years.
01:35And sort of the high watermark was signing Queens of the Stone Age.
01:39And that was a big deal for us.
01:41But soon after that, you know, there was just a lot going on in both of our lives.
01:45And we stopped doing it.
01:47But a few years back, we kind of had some music that we were excited about.
01:52And we kept talking about it.
01:53And we were like, we got to just start this up again.
01:55And we hooked up with some partners at The Orchard and found our future CEO there,
02:01Billie Jean Cirillo, who's just amazing and works there.
02:05And so we've been putting records out.
02:07We got a Brad record coming out pretty soon.
02:09We've got some young bands out of the UK that we've signed recently.
02:14One of them is Tiger Cub.
02:15And we're just thrilled about amazing rock band.
02:19So, yeah, we're just we're finding our way and having fun in the clubhouse still.
02:25You know, it's still playing in the, you know, in the sandbox and messing around and just,
02:30you know, chatting with your friends and finding fun stuff to do.
02:33And that's what keeps it exciting is just is just making it really playful.
02:37Now, when you put this when you started this company back in 1994, I mean, you guys are
02:40obviously in the midst of just like reinventing rock and roll as we know it with the whole
02:46Seattle sound and the grunge and the whole thing.
02:48Were you were you watching like record labels and different people in the businesses?
02:52And did you say to yourself, well, I could do this or I should try something like this?
02:56You know, first of all, if we think about it, do we really reinvent rock and roll?
03:00Well, I don't know.
03:01I'm not sure that we did.
03:03We took a good we had a good spin on it, I think, that was a simpler and more straightforward.
03:09I don't know.
03:10There's, you know, grunge has its it's great quality.
03:13So I love its simplicity and I love its it's sort of human quality.
03:19So but, you know, I think it was the same thing as just sort of having some success with music.
03:24Like, you know, all the success I've had is because I've been in collaboration with smart,
03:30creative people.
03:31And I just I wanted to keep going with that same theme.
03:35And, you know, Regan and I had talked a lot about art and a lot about music all the time.
03:40And we knew a lot of bands that we loved.
03:42And we just wanted to kind of go down the rabbit hole of just finding things that we both loved
03:47and both were excited about and just see if we could help those things succeed just as a,
03:52you know, as a challenge and as a as a as a game in a way or as a, you know, something to do with
04:00your life.
04:01And so it was always sort of that point of view of like, do something with your friends
04:06and and and have fun and and stick with it.
04:10I mean, I think that's been the biggest, you know, learning lesson for me is just like,
04:14you know, we didn't stick with loose group, but sometimes things come around again where it's
04:18like, oh, yes, we did in a way we let it go.
04:20And now we're like more mature.
04:22We've got more time and we've got some more experience and we've got better partners.
04:26And so we're, you know, now's now's a good time.
04:30So, you know, it's always the long game.
04:32I think that's that's the thing.
04:33That's the lesson I learned.
04:34It's just like just when you think you want to give up, just set it aside for a minute and
04:39then come back to it.
04:40Now, are you accepting like do you accept demos or can people submit their
04:44stuff to you, Van?
04:46Yeah, I'm not sure how we would do that.
04:49You know, we're we're just kind of scouring around on the Internet and you're on my space.
04:55But yeah, you could send you could send stuff to Loose Groove.
04:58I don't know what our address is.
04:59I'll have to figure that out.
05:01You can, you know, you can you could, you know, direct messages on or on Loose Groove on
05:07our Instagram account, I think.
05:08OK, now, if I'm not mistaken, didn't you direct message Tiger Cub and tell him how much you
05:13liked him and you wanted him to come on your label?
05:15Absolutely.
05:16And I knew they were following us at that point.
05:19And and so I knew that they were sort of listening.
05:22And I'd already had a couple of conversations with their manager at the time.
05:26So I kind of I'd already established a little bit of a relationship, but it was kind of a
05:31it was a little bit of a move there, kind of, you know, throw it out there in the public
05:34and, you know, add a little pressure.
05:35But it worked out.
05:37They're really wonderful, wonderful guys.
05:39And they're really hardworking, great rock band.
05:43And they're going to be around for a while.
05:45Jamie is a great songwriter.
05:47He's going to write all kinds of songs, but they're doing heavy right now.
05:51And it's it's good.
05:52They're they're getting heavy.
05:53Yeah, there you go.
05:54Yeah, I know you like that.
05:55You like that heavy stuff.
05:56So anybody can just, you know, of course, follow you on Loose Groove Records on.
05:59I know I'm following you guys on Twitter.
06:01I help to follow you on the IG and the whole thing.
06:03And you guys can, you know, take it from there.
06:05But so you just mentioned a few minutes ago about not changing the landscape of rock.
06:09So I'm old as far as this business is concerned.
06:12And when I first started, hair bands were the flavor of the day.
06:15And I was on the radio and I'm playing, you know, you name the hair band.
06:18I was playing them.
06:20And I remember the first time I ever played Smells Like Teen Spirit.
06:24And I can remember going into my boss's office the first time and saying, well, we're playing
06:28alive and even flow, but I want to play black.
06:30And I can remember all this stuff.
06:32So there was like a, just a, just a huge shift as far as I'm concerned early on in my
06:38career.
06:38So, you know, you've got, you, you may be, you may say that we didn't really change,
06:43but a lot of things changed.
06:44I think we changed the landscape at that time.
06:47I just don't think we reinvented anything.
06:49I think we were, we were taking punk rock and the blues and rock and roll, and we were
06:53just kind of doing it in a different way.
06:55So I do think we impacted, you know, the music industry at that time.
07:00And it's only because hair bands were so entrenched in the record business was so entrenched and
07:04everybody was just doing the same thing for so long that it lost its flavor.
07:08I was, I was into hair bands.
07:10I wanted guys to dress up and have crazy hair and, you know, makeup.
07:14And, uh, but it was, you know, I think, you know, everything is, is time for a change
07:19at some point and everyone wants something fresh again.
07:21So we'll see where it goes, but I, I love that the moment when, you know, when kids get
07:28ahold of something and they break it and they want to just make it their own.
07:31Um, and so anytime that happens, it's, it's kind of fun.
07:35It's a, it's a, it's a good time to listen.
07:37Cause then it makes it more about for anyone to make a band.
07:41It's not, you know, just stellar musicians.
07:45Sometimes it's just gotta be a group of people that just love, you know, making a racket
07:49together.
07:50So, well, you know, not only love that, but I mean, just the whole Seattle thing.
07:54So I'm here in Detroit and Detroit has quite a musical history.
07:57I wouldn't say as much as Seattle does, but in that timeframe in the mid eighties,
08:01to the two thousands, I mean, there's just, I could think of 30 names off the top of my
08:06head that are just like, you know, musical legends.
08:10Yeah.
08:10And I think, I think kids got inspired in this town to see music as a real way to live their
08:17life and be able to succeed at it.
08:19So I think there was some inspiration there and some, you know, so that, that's, that's
08:24a, that's a lesson for lots of cities in terms of just being able to support the arts and
08:27knowing that there's, there really is a path for kids to learn about, again, collaboration,
08:34music, how to do business, booking agents.
08:37I mean, all the things that tie into the music industry that you learn about that are important
08:42skills that you can sort of, you know, develop into lots of different sort of either jobs or
08:48opportunities.
08:49There there's tons of it.
08:50So yeah, but Detroit is huge, man.
08:54Iggy's got a new record out, I think right now.
08:57Yeah.
08:57Yeah.
08:58You know, but when you were coming up though, you had a lot of chances to actually probably
09:02quit and do something different.
09:03Didn't you?
09:04You just, you just kind of stuck with it.
09:07Well, you know, I, I think the only thing that would make you quit is just sort of the
09:11personal relationships of long-term collaborations.
09:14There is, you just always conflict and sort of negotiating kind of how you're going to do
09:20stuff together as a group is difficult.
09:22It's not, it's not a cakewalk and you really have to keep a perspective on the big picture
09:28because some fight you're having about some song or some approach to any particular thing
09:34that you're doing may seem like the most important thing in the world to you in that
09:38moment.
09:39And you might be having a big sort of conflict with somebody that you're working with.
09:42But if you, if you stick with it 10 years, when you look back, you'll realize that was
09:47completely, you know, meaningless.
09:49So it really is sort of having tough, you know, a thick skin and, and a persistence and
09:56just a, and a, and a sort of vision of like, yeah, it's going to be, you know, there's, it's
10:01going to be a democracy, but it's, you know, democracies are difficult.
10:04They're not, you can't just wake up and think, oh, we're all together and everyone loves
10:08each other.
10:08It's like, you gotta, you gotta work it out with your teammates.
10:11So, and there's no, you know, we don't have a boss.
10:15We don't have anybody saying this is the way you should do it.
10:17We gotta, we gotta figure it out for ourselves.
10:19So that's, that's the hard part, I think.
10:21Now there's some other Seattle bands that came out around the time as well, which was
10:24like a band like Queensryche or something.
10:26But you mentioned, I saw that recently you mentioned that Duff McKagan was so influential
10:31and with, with all these bands and stuff, and you may have talked about this before,
10:35but was, I think I read somewhere that there was actually a axle or something came and
10:39wanted to play shows with you guys.
10:41Is that true?
10:43Wanted to play shows with Mother Love Bone, maybe?
10:46With Pearl Jam.
10:46Or with Pearl Jam.
10:47I, I, you know, I never actually, I don't think I've heard that, but Duff is, you know,
10:51Duff is really ground zero.
10:54I mean, as much as anyone can be ground zero for Seattle sound, I think Duff is really that
10:59guy because he was playing in all the bands that I was going to go, that I was seeing.
11:04And then he left, you know, Seattle and, and started Guns N' Roses.
11:08So not only did he sort of influence this scene and then he busted down to LA and started
11:12Guns N' Roses and made that so fresh.
11:16I mean, talk about like what might've been just kind of a hair metal band in a way, you
11:20know, in terms of their influences.
11:22And then Duff brings this like dark, you know, groovy, you know, harmonically challenging
11:31little parts to it that make it all of a sudden sound tough and sound like, oh, you know, it's
11:37not the same chord progression.
11:40It's different.
11:40Something about it's different.
11:42And he really, you know, he, he's amazing.
11:45And that, that record that came out on Loose Groove, which is the living, which is a record
11:49that Duff made, you know, in 1981 or 1982, um, which never came out before.
11:56And it would, it would have been the biggest record in Seattle at the time had it come out,
12:01but it's, it's an amazing record.
12:02You really hear the nucleus of, you know, 10 minute warning, which is Duff's band right
12:08after, um, the living, and then you hear the nucleus of, of guns and roses in that.
12:14And, and everybody was kind of ripping off those kinds of riffs that he was playing with.
12:18So he's, he's really special for sure.
12:22Yeah.
12:22He never kind of lost that, that punk edge, did he?
12:25No.
12:25And that's what makes it so great.
12:27It's like, you know, you can, you can kind of get big and then you can kind of get into
12:32writing songs.
12:32And sometimes they just become so complex and so sort of, uh, cerebral, um, you know,
12:40punk rock just keeps it like, okay, but we, maybe we just need like a, you know, like just
12:45something that's like boneheaded and kind of caveman, you know, you need to kind of be
12:50in touch with your inner caveman sometimes to make something, you know, rock.
12:54And it's good to have a lot of musicality as well, but, um, it's cool to not follow the
13:01rules sometimes.
13:02Now, when I, when I told people on social media, I was gonna be talking to you.
13:06I mean, obviously there's a lot of Pearl Jam questions.
13:07So what's, what's going on Pearl Jam right now?
13:10Um, not much.
13:12We're, um, we're, we're, we're taking some time off right now.
13:15We finished up all the makeup dates that we did that we lost from three years ago.
13:19So, um, we finished that up a few, a few months back and, um, you know, the plan is that
13:25we're going to do some more recording and we're going to, we're going to, you know, try
13:28to finish a record here pretty soon.
13:30So, um, there's, there's songs that are getting close to being done and there's a bunch that
13:34aren't.
13:35And, uh, we're gonna, um, we're gonna, we're gonna do something here pretty soon.
13:40Now I was going to ask you, so how is the writing process?
13:42Do you guys demo stuff out?
13:43Do you go into a studio with a clean slate?
13:45How does that work?
13:46Uh, you know, we do it all the different ways.
13:49Sometimes we go in and somebody just brings a riff and we just work it up from the very,
13:52you know, I got this and this part and everyone's jams on it.
13:56And usually that's the best formula for us where everyone's kind of in the same room and
14:00kind of, but we all bring in full, you know, fully realized demos.
14:04And, you know, we got demos for days, you know, it's like, it's, it's, um, everybody
14:10writes in the band.
14:11So now it's really just trying to figure out really what's a, what's, what's something
14:15different for us and what's something, um, exciting.
14:18And, uh, we're working on that.
14:20I think, I think we've got a good start on, on, on another record that will be, um, hopefully,
14:26hopefully good.
14:272023.
14:29I bet it's going to be 2024 before the record comes out as my guess.
14:32So, but we're, we're, we're, we're working on it.
14:35So both of us being a near or at our mid fifties, we were talking about how technically, uh, uh,
14:40inept we are before we started here today.
14:43What kind of stuff, uh, what kind of stuff like influences you nowadays, as far as, you know,
14:47music or what have you, you know, uh, I listened to a lot of pop radio cause I got daughters
14:54and, uh, and I listened to a lot of KXP.
14:57Um, that's honestly my, you know, my, my dream is because I don't have to think about, um,
15:03figuring out what to listen to.
15:05I've been thinking that band, the Mets on KXP lately, they've been playing that.
15:09Um, but you know, I probably read books more than I do anything at all, as far as listening
15:13to music.
15:14Now I have a 21 year old daughter who's a country fan and I always try to make her country
15:17dreams come true.
15:18Are you the same way?
15:18Do you pull some strings and pull in some favors for any of the pop bands that come
15:22through town?
15:23Uh, like what would I do?
15:25Oh, I don't know.
15:25Just some meet and greets, anything like that or concert tickets or anything.
15:28Oh, oh yeah.
15:29So, so if somebody really wants, yeah.
15:31One of my daughters wanted to be, I, you know, uh, let's see, have I done that?
15:34I think my daughters met Taylor Swift maybe through her mom.
15:37Uh, and it wasn't, I didn't set it up, but, uh, it was, uh, I, it might've, you know,
15:43our management company might've been involved in that one or something, but I'm, I'm not
15:48that on top of that.
15:49All right.
15:49A couple of fast things here for you.
15:51Um, you're in, you're in the rock and roll hall of fame.
15:53You're a member of the rock and roll hall of fame and you get a vote, which some people
15:55probably don't know about.
15:57Um, who do you think should be in the rock and roll hall of fame?
15:59Okay.
15:59What's on my list this year?
16:01Oh, right now.
16:02Just off the top of my head.
16:03Yeah.
16:03Who do you think, who do you think should be?
16:05Who's not in it already?
16:06That's the question.
16:06It's like, it's sort of the gates been, it's been ever since we've gotten in.
16:12It's about a flood of everybody's in.
16:15There has been a lot.
16:16You know what?
16:16Listen, I was telling someone the other day, I took my daughter, like I said, she's a country
16:20music fan.
16:20I went down to a Nashville.
16:22We went to the country music hall of fame and it was great.
16:25It was fantastic.
16:26But Metallica wasn't in there.
16:27Pearl jam wasn't in there.
16:28And I don't think Dolly Parton should be in the rock and roll hall of fame, but that's
16:30just my opinion.
16:31And I love Dolly Parton, you know, stuff like that.
16:34Well, the rock and roll hall of fame is open there.
16:35It's, it's more music hall of fame at this point.
16:37I mean, I think that's clear that they, and they need the, they need more, they need a
16:41broader audience.
16:43So other pretenders in, I'd want the pretenders to be in for sure.
16:47I thought, yeah, I'm not sure if they're in that.
16:48You know, I think the names always come up where like the iron maidens and the stuff like
16:52that.
16:52Yeah.
16:52Iron maiden should be in there.
16:54I mean, I've spent a lot of time with iron maiden.
16:56Man.
16:57Is that right?
16:58Oh, hell yeah.
17:00Killers, number of the beast era, all that, that era was like, that's all I listened to.
17:06Merciful fate, maybe, you know, I think, I feel like Satan should be in the rock and
17:09roll hall of fame.
17:10So if that's.
17:13That's going to be the title of this story.
17:15Satan should be in the rock and roll hall of fame.
17:17Stone gosh, or damn.
17:18He should be fully inducted.
17:20Like seriously.
17:21How cool was that to get in?
17:25It was cool.
17:26You know, it was, it was, I mean, it's like, it's, it's a little weird because it's just,
17:33um, it's, it's a very surreal thing because you know who you are and you know, you didn't
17:38really, you know, play that much in practice and you've been good, you know, you've been
17:41a good bandmate and you know, you've, you've written some good songs, but, um, you know,
17:46it just sort of feels a little bit like, Whoa, this is, is this really, does this make sense?
17:51You know, Zeppelin.
17:52Yes.
17:53In there.
17:54Hendricks for sure.
17:57You know, another stop.
17:59Another see around.
18:01Yeah, exactly.
18:03Yeah.
18:03Well, you guys were sold out on what?
18:0580 million records, something on the lines.
18:07It's like, I mean, you gotta, you gotta be in there.
18:09Alison chains.
18:10Love them.
18:11They they've got to be in there too.
18:12I would think.
18:13Alison chains is not in there for sure.
18:15That's that's one.
18:16I mean, I don't think Soundgarden is in there for sure.
18:20Sound.
18:20Oh, maybe Soundgarden is in now.
18:22I think they got in last two couple of years ago, maybe.
18:24Yeah, they may have.
18:25I don't know.
18:25They start to run together a little bit, uh, being here in Detroit, uh, uh, ironically
18:29enough, I was at that last Soundgarden show and I tell people all the time, once again,
18:33I tell people that I can remember the first time I ever played outshined on the radio and
18:37was blown away by it.
18:38And there I was at the final show, not knowing it was the final show.
18:41Oh, geez.
18:42What's some of your favorite memories with Chris?
18:45I mean, Chris is, I mean, you, the more you listen to Chris and the more you just kind of
18:50dig into kind of what he did when he was here.
18:54And it's just, I, you know, I'm just more and more impressed by him and just like in
18:59awe of his natural talent.
19:01I mean, we made that Temple of the Dog record and we rehearsed like four times.
19:06He showed us the songs.
19:08We kind of knew how to play them.
19:10We went in there, him and Matt Cameron, Matt Cameron was just unbelievable.
19:14And they just showed us how to make a record in five days.
19:18And I listened to that record.
19:19I didn't even remember playing half of it.
19:22And, um, it's maybe one of the, you know, it's probably one of the best records I've ever
19:26been involved with.
19:27And it was like instantaneous, you know, because those guys were so pro and he was so generous
19:33to kind of give us the opportunity to make a record after, you know, we had lost our
19:39singer and mother love bone to heroin overdose.
19:41And it was, it was a horrible time.
19:43And he loved Andy was lived with Andy and spent a lot of time with him.
19:48And, um, he was just like, let's make a record together.
19:51Let's, you know, and he wrote these beautiful, sensitive songs at a time when all of it was
19:57heavy, you know?
19:58And I'm like, he was like, oh, I can do a, I can do a ballad.
20:00I can do a love song.
20:02I could do sort of this stuff that's outside the genre that now it just sounds like classic
20:08rock.
20:08You know, you listen to it and it's like, but at the time it was very different.
20:12And, uh, yeah, he's, he's the great, he's the goat maybe, you know?
20:18Yeah.
20:18No, unbelievably talented, of course, with everything he did.
20:21All right.
20:22Two more things here for you.
20:22Then we'll cut you loose.
20:23First of all, you mentioned grunge a few minutes ago.
20:25Are you one of these guys that doesn't like the term grunge or?
20:28Oh, I don't care.
20:29Okay.
20:30Yeah.
20:30You can call it grunge.
20:31Yeah.
20:31Cause I know some of the hair bands don't like hair bands.
20:35Yeah.
20:36I can understand that.
20:37Grunge makes sense.
20:38I mean, grunge makes sense.
20:39I mean, it is, it, it, it sort of describes it in the right way.
20:42It's like, yeah, it's a little bit broken.
20:44Yeah.
20:44A little grungy for sure.
20:45All right.
20:46Final thing here for you.
20:46Pearl Jam breaks loose in the early nineties and stuff.
20:49What's the, what's the first like major thing that you buy?
20:53Uh, Volvo station wagon.
20:55It was a bad-ass Volvo.
20:57You know, like Volvos were like shitty, shitty, shitty.
20:59And then at some point in the kind of like, all of a sudden they like kind of got pretty
21:03tight and they're like good suspension and kind of fast and V6.
21:07And I got a Volvo, uh, eight cylinder station wagon that was low and it was fast, man.
21:16And heated seats.
21:18I was like, Whoa, heated seats.
21:21Yeah.
21:21I got a car.
21:23So there you go.
21:25That was exciting.
21:26Well, stone.
21:27Good talking to you.
21:27Good luck with everything.
21:28Loose group records.
21:29Of course.
21:29Uh, uh, you're out there plugging that along, uh, painted shield.
21:32Forgot to mention that real fast.
21:34Uh, that's going playing South by Southwest coming up in March, right?
21:37Yep.
21:38Yep.
21:38We're going to do our, I think our debut show is going to be at South by Southwest.
21:41So, um, that's something to watch and, you know, keep an ear out for, uh, for tiger
21:46cup.
21:46They're, they're doing good stuff.
21:48They're going to, they're going to come back.
21:49They're going to have another single here pretty soon.
21:50It's going to, it'll blow you away.
21:52It'll be great.
21:53All right.
21:53Well, stone, thank you so much for the time.
21:55And of course, uh, the, the years of rock and roll and thanks for making me feel like
21:59I'm not the only one that's technologically, uh, yeah, I mean, I'm your King.
22:05I just inept technologically.
22:08I'm the, I'm the master of the universe.
22:10Uh, thanks for your time.
22:11I appreciate it very much.