Haunted Michigan Episode 14: Doug Shulze
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00:00Haunted Michigan, Terrifying Tales.
00:05Doug, how are you? Good to see you, my friend.
00:07Hey, thanks for the time, Meltdown. Really appreciate it.
00:11Now, for those that don't know, you have a new movie coming out called Thorns.
00:14We'll get into that here in just a bit.
00:16But first of all, give us your background in the movie industry, the horror industry, that kind of thing.
00:21Sure. Well, I'm a Michigan guy, you know, born and raised in Detroit.
00:26Detroit, you know, ended up going to school at Waterford and I found my way to Eastern Michigan University and, you know, got into independent filmmaking of all things.
00:38And, you know, like guys like Sam Raimi and the Evil Dead, you know, very early on, I learned about how movies could be made outside the studio system.
00:48And so there's a lot of commercial film work that goes on in the Detroit area.
00:53So I decided to stay here and I started a production company and, you know, I've made about six or seven independent films.
01:03You know, I'm more of a weekend warrior, if you will.
01:07And, you know, that's how all that sort of, you know, the genesis of that, if you will.
01:12Yeah.
01:13And so now when you're not making movies, you run the Motion Picture Institute. Is that correct?
01:18Yeah, correct. We're, you know, the best way to describe us is we're sort of the Spex Howard of film, because a lot of people know Spex, right?
01:27You know, or knew of Spex.
01:29And we're actually fully accredited.
01:32It's a one-year program.
01:33And, you know, we teach sort of the on-set protocol of film, the film and digital media world.
01:41And, you know, you could go into an IMAX movie theater or turn on Netflix or, you know, if you've heard of a show called The Ghost Adventures with Zach Baggins, you know, he's our grad.
01:56So we've actually got a lot of prolific graduates that work in the film industry behind the scenes that actually went to school in Troy, you know, through our film school.
02:06So that's pretty exciting, you know.
02:09Now, you mentioned the other local guy there, Sam Raimi. Do you know him?
02:13Yeah, yeah. We know those guys.
02:16You know, Sam works with Rob Tappert and Bruce Campbell.
02:19I honestly have never met Sam, but, you know, they're a bit of a role model, if you will, because they did the template with Evil Dead, right?
02:30And, you know, it became sort of a goal for a lot of other independent filmmakers to shoot for, you know, doing lower-budgeted horror movies and stuff, right?
02:41You know?
02:42Yeah.
02:43Yeah.
02:43By the way, that Evil Dead movie last year was really good, I thought.
02:47Yeah, yeah, for sure.
02:48That's the kind of reboot, Evil Dead Rise.
02:51Yeah.
02:51Yeah, and I hear they're doing, you know, more, and I think they're going to be doing, you know, a new Evil Dead every couple of years, right?
02:59Sometimes it can get a little bit oversaturated.
03:02Yeah, yeah, no pun intended, right?
03:04You know, with the whole gore thing, but, you know, which speaks a bit to our film, you know, which falls into kind of the special effects-driven gore, you know, zone a bit.
03:17But there's a bit more behind it than that, you know?
03:20All right.
03:20Well, you brought it up, so let's talk about Thorns here.
03:22So how long has this movie been in the process?
03:25Yeah, for sure.
03:26You know, when we do an independent film, you know, you're talking usually, you know, a year or two actually write the thing, rewrite it, and get it right.
03:35And in Michigan, you kind of write to budget, you know?
03:39It's not like doing a Marvel movie where you write it and somebody's going to hand you a couple hundred million, right?
03:46You know, we actually have to kind of go, how much did we make on the last movie?
03:51Oh, okay, we've got a couple hundred grand, so we're going to make a movie for a couple hundred grand.
03:56You know, I really, you know, my love for 80s horror films, John Carpenter, you know, The Thing, and Hellraiser.
04:09Those are kind of, you know, the monster movies that I loved growing up, and I wanted to make a very visceral monster movie, but, you know, more of a thinking man's visceral horror movie.
04:27And there was a movie that came out a couple, you know, or a year ago called Terrifier, right?
04:34Everybody's hearing about the Terrifier movie.
04:36I loved those movies, yeah.
04:37Yeah, so, well, if you like that, you know, Terrifier 2, we're calling Thorn sort of the thinking man's Terrifier 2, you know?
04:48It's funny you mention it, because I always tell people about Terrifier.
04:51I got two words, dumb and fun.
04:53Well, hopefully we're not dumb, you know, but yeah, but fun is what it's all about.
05:00And I think there's a trend to go back to, you know, what we call physical practical makeup effects.
05:07Because so many movies have just become, you know, like two-hour animated movies with all this CGI.
05:15And so this was a very intentional way of making an homage to the 80s classic monster movies, if you will.
05:25Yeah, and of course, you know, you mentioned Hellraiser, and your movie stars, none other than Pinhead, Doug Bradley, who I've met before a couple times.
05:32Nice guy.
05:33Yeah.
05:33He seemed to be very soft-spoken.
05:35I never really, you know, hung out with him at any, but I mean, but you just mentioned that.
05:39You know, you just mentioned Hellraiser, so it's pretty cool if you can get somebody like Doug in your movie.
05:44Sure, yeah.
05:45You know, I know his agent, you know, when we make these smaller films, we always try to put a recognizable genre actor in it.
05:54And I've worked with, you know, I mean, this will date me, but, you know, actors by the name of John Saxon and David Carradine, you know, who unfortunately is no longer with us.
06:08And Doug just has quite a following with Hellraiser, and, you know, his manager actually recommended him.
06:18And so I sent him the script, and he loved it, and we brought him in, you know.
06:21Yeah, I saw an interview where he said he gets bored by scripts, and they have to be grammatically correct or something.
06:27He said, and that it was, which he would never read it.
06:30He would never last past a paragraph of my script, I suppose.
06:34But this movie, so I, now, as opposed to some of the other people you've talked to in interviews and different things, I haven't seen the movie.
06:42So I saw the trailer that you sent me.
06:44I watched that a few times because I thought that was interesting.
06:47So this is like biblical slash sci-fi.
06:51So explain the movie a little bit without giving away too much, obviously.
06:54Yeah, sure.
06:55Well, you know, we follow an ex-priest who's taken a job with Nassau, you know.
07:01And, you know, it's sort of all metaphorical, right?
07:04He couldn't find his answers internally, so now he's looking to the cosmos.
07:09And so, you know, he's sent to investigate a remote mountaintop space observatory that's gone offline mysteriously after it receives a signal from deep space.
07:24So he goes there and, you know, no pun intended, all hell breaks loose.
07:29And, you know, and then it just becomes sort of a fun ghost house type film, you know, hopefully.
07:36Yeah.
07:37Well, and so then you're going to debut this coming up here in Michigan?
07:41Yeah, for sure.
07:42We've teamed up with the Imagine Theaters, B&B, and some other nationally recognized theaters.
07:49The film will be getting a national release, and we're going to start to roll it out in theaters only, so you can't find it online anywhere yet.
07:59And we're going to have a red carpet premiere on February 17th, which is a Saturday night at the Imagine in Royal Oak.
08:10And Doug Bradley's going to be there, so that's kind of exciting.
08:14And then a week later, on the 23rd, it releases nationwide, and they'll be doing midnight shows on the night of the 22nd.
08:25And it'll get what's called a slow rollout, like 50, 100 screens.
08:30And if it does well, fingers crossed, we get some good support, just like the Terrifier film, it will expand, you know.
08:38So that's what our hope is.
08:40Now, in a movie like this, and in a situation like you're in, what will make this a success?
08:45Really, you know, it's grassroots.
08:47So, like, you actually offering me to come on is just, you know, amazing, so thank you.
08:54You know, in Riff, you know, I mean, I've been a huge Riff fan.
08:58I've been listening since you guys, you know, would play Jay Giles, right, you know.
09:04But, yeah, it really does.
09:06It comes down to, you know, those listening or watching really can have a hand in helping the movie go somewhere and do something.
09:17Because it really is sort of a word of mouth, starts in Michigan, and it kind of goes from there, you know.
09:24Yeah.
09:24And how has streaming affected what you do?
09:27Is it better or worse for guys in your business?
09:30Oh, boy.
09:31Yeah, streaming, you know, I'm sure you hear it from the artists, right, the musical acts and so forth.
09:39And, you know, we used to, our bread and butter used to come from disc, you know, Blu-ray and DVD.
09:48And before that, it was obviously VHS.
09:52But it's hard to collect.
09:54And so we're now entering, you know, days where, you know, you can have a movie released on a streaming platform on, let's say, a Tuesday on Tubi and, you know, these other platforms.
10:07And by Thursday, they've knocked it off the, you know, the periphery and you got to go searching for it.
10:13So it kind of vanishes.
10:16So we're, what we're actually doing is, you know, we went directly to the theaters and I've actually started a company called, you know, Dark Planet Releasing.
10:26And we're going, we're taking movies into the theaters ourselves just because it's, you know, we're going to reduce the middleman.
10:34And it might sound funny as a comparison, but Taylor Swift just did that with her movie she put in theaters and the formula was quite successful for her.
10:46So, you know, I'm not, I'm not a Taylor Swift music fan, but, but I applaud that move.
10:53Yeah.
10:53You got to write some more movies that, that attracts teenage girls.
10:56But I, so I, so me personally, I'm a movie like theater guy.
11:01Like I go, I try to go once a week or so.
11:05I bet you I've seen, I bet you I saw between 30 and 40 movies in the theater last year.
11:10I tried to get to see all the horror movies.
11:13Yeah.
11:14And I thought that the great horror movies from last year was, I thought the none too was pretty well.
11:18We just mentioned Evil Dead.
11:20I thought that was fantastic.
11:21Yep.
11:22You know, there was some, there were some really good ones out there.
11:24And I have to admit that, that I thought the best movie that I saw all of last year,
11:28and I saw it like on December 28th was the new Godzilla movie.
11:32And I am not a Godzilla fan, but I just went and saw it.
11:35And I'm like, okay, I'm going to give this a shot.
11:37And I thought it was outstanding, predictable, but I thought it was really good.
11:40Yeah.
11:40Well, the, what it's from, I haven't seen it, but I've heard from all my film friends that
11:46are seeing it, they say it's very character driven and you care more.
11:50It's not just Godzilla, you know, knocking down buildings and, and so forth.
11:54But that's, you know, it's definitely on my list for sure.
11:58And it's up for an Academy Award too.
12:00So that's pretty amazing.
12:01It was, it was kind of typical.
12:03And like I said, a predictable, but I really thoroughly enjoyed it.
12:06I guess at the end of the day, when you go to a movie theater, that's what you want to
12:08do.
12:08You just want to enjoy yourself.
12:10Yeah, for sure.
12:10You know, and, and I mean, that's not, you know, a thorns isn't high art.
12:15It's a lower budgeted, you know, horror film.
12:20And we just want people to enjoy it and have a good time, you know?
12:23So, yeah, so far this year, I've already seen a founder's day.
12:26I saw that this week, which was meh.
12:29And then I saw Night Swim, which I thought was better than people were saying it was going
12:32to be.
12:33Yeah.
12:33You know, Night Swim hasn't gotten, that's a Blumhouse and, you know, they haven't been
12:39their last two, right?
12:41They did the Exorcist sequel, which, you know, that's a, that's a tough one to even go after.
12:48Right.
12:49You know, when I heard they were doing a sequel, I'm like, what are they doing?
12:51You know, but, but yeah.
12:55No, I was going to say, you mentioned the, the 80s movies.
12:58I was just at a bar the other night and there, there was this girl in there.
13:00She's probably in her late twenties or whatever.
13:02And she had all these tattoos.
13:03They were, you know, horror related, you know, pumpkins and crap like that.
13:07And I said, so are you a horror movie fan?
13:09She goes, yeah.
13:09I go, well, what, what is your favorite?
13:10She goes, Nightmare, you know, on Elm Street.
13:12I'm thinking she wasn't even alive when those movies came out.
13:15So you mentioned, you mentioned 80s movies before you mentioned a couple of them.
13:18What are some of your other favorites?
13:20Well, you know, I'm a huge, I mean, outside the genre, I think my favorite filmmaker is
13:25Kubrick, you know, 2001, Clockwork Orange, those movies.
13:30But, you know, from a horror standpoint, Carpenter is sort of the, you know, the benchmark with
13:37The Thing and In the Fog, I love.
13:40And even Prince of Darkness has grown on me.
13:44There's a European director by the name of Dario Argento who did a movie called Suspiria.
13:50And if you, if you haven't seen that, I think you'd really love it.
13:55It's got, you know, this surreal cinematography and, and the soundtrack was done by a group called
14:02Goblin and they, they did the soundtrack for Dawn of the Dead, Romero's and, but put that
14:10on your list.
14:10If, if you haven't seen that, I think you'd really dig it.
14:14But Romero, you know, George Romero's, you know, a big, big fan.
14:19Yeah.
14:19I'm a fan of his work too.
14:20What do you think of, since you're a rock fan, what do you think of Rob Zombie's movies?
14:25Oh yeah.
14:25Well, you know, you know, I applaud, he did one of the Halloween sequels I thought was
14:33really admirable.
14:34I think his sequel to the first Halloween film that he did, you know, and he stages really
14:41wonderful action scenes in suspense scenes.
14:45And, you know, so from that standpoint, I think he's, you know, he's strong and, you know,
14:52he's getting better as a, as a director, I think, you know, Lords of Salem.
14:59And then a few of those are pretty brutal, right?
15:02The Three from Hell and Devil's Rejects and, and those I worked with Sid Haig, who's in a
15:10few of his movies and unfortunately Sid passed, but.
15:13So yeah, Sid was in a, yeah, Sid's in all those, uh, Devil's Rejects, House of a Thousand
15:17Corpses.
15:17Those first two movies came out and I thought they were fantastic.
15:20Lords of Salem.
15:21I watched twice and I just, I don't get it.
15:23I don't think it's very good.
15:24Well, there, there again.
15:25Yeah.
15:26And do you remember that one, what was called 31?
15:29Yeah.
15:2931.
15:30You know, and that was, that was kind of brutal, but you know, it was like, you know,
15:35so it was kind of like a running man thing.
15:38Yeah, exactly.
15:38So, um, uh, and then he did the Munsters right for, uh, uh, Netflix and, um, you know,
15:45that was interesting.
15:46So I watched it.
15:47I mean, you know, I, I can appreciate it.
15:49It really, really wasn't my cup of tea, but, uh, you know, it was, it was what it is.
15:52I really like how a Rob uses, uh, like classic rock a certain way.
15:56My, uh, the, the last scene from, uh, uh, Devil's Rejects where they're, where they're
16:00getting shot at and Freebird's playing.
16:02My brother said to me one time, you'll never hear Freebird the same way.
16:05And he's, yeah, he's right.
16:07It happened.
16:08Yeah, for sure.
16:09You know?
16:09Yeah.
16:10When, when cinema uses classic songs, they can leave an indelible mark.
16:15And sometimes it's not, you know, it's like in Clockwork Orange, I, I can't hear singing
16:19in the rain anymore, you know, without, uh, yeah.
16:24Now in thorns in the, uh, in the, uh, the trailer that you sent me, of course, there's,
16:28there's the, uh, the chorus of young girls.
16:30It sounds like, uh, you know, singing, do you guys use any other music in the, throughout
16:34the movie?
16:35Well, you know, what's interesting is I'm actually, uh, um, the score is something that
16:40I did for the film and it's the first indie film where I did the score.
16:45I don't consider myself and I don't want to turn this into a, you know, um, there are
16:50skilled musicians out there, but I'm sort of coming from the Carpenter school and I
16:54wanted a specific synth driven, you know, sort of 80s sound.
16:59And there are a lot of sampled sounds you can take these days and, um, so forth.
17:05So, uh, but we, we didn't acquire any, um, outside music by any, you know, existing artists,
17:12um, at all.
17:14So it's all just a, a real simple, but we're getting real good feedback, you know, the music
17:19score people like, so, which is good.
17:21Yeah.
17:21Right off the top of my head, you start talking about that.
17:23I think of a stranger things that that movie takes place and we're about the same age, but
17:27it's like, you could see yourself back in 1984 just by watching that show.
17:32Yeah.
17:33I think that I'd, I'd be lying if I said, uh, stranger things, wasn't a bit of an impetus
17:38or a, a motivator for, uh, for thorns, you know, the idea of the eighties retro.
17:45And I just love everything about that series.
17:47You know, it's just a lot of fun, you know?
17:50Yeah.
17:51So when you, you talked about the process.
17:53So when did you first put pen to paper to, to start this movie?
17:57Well, you know, I mean, it was two years ago.
17:59Uh, so, um, you know, if you go back two years, there's, you know, just, um, almost like a
18:07musician might, you know, who's writing a song, you're sitting around going, what am I going
18:11to do next?
18:12You know?
18:13And, um, I just, I said to myself, you know, I've always wanted to do a makeup effects
18:20driven horror film.
18:22And I kept thinking about all these eighties horror films and, and I'm looking at stranger
18:27things and some other films.
18:29And that just sort of started me down this path.
18:32And I had some ideas for a setting.
18:35And so I, I crank out a treatment, which is like a five, 10 page short story.
18:42And, um, then you begin to expand it, you know, and turn it into a screenplay eventually.
18:48And, um, then you're tasked with getting the resource for it.
18:52Right.
18:53You know, which is never easy.
18:55So now when you, when you're writing this movie, do you know how it ends and you're just
18:58trying to figure out a way to get there?
19:00You know, most of the time you do.
19:02Um, I, I think most filmmakers kind of do, I, I, I don't think I've ever started a story
19:07where it's been like, Ooh, what, what's going to happen next?
19:11You know, so you, when you, when you write, you are supposed to, even in your treatment
19:16form, you should have a, a beginning, middle and end, and then you just begin to expand
19:21each of those.
19:22You expand your beginning, then your middle, then your end and, uh, try and keep it original
19:28and try not to bore people, you know, along the way.
19:31Right.
19:32Yeah.
19:32Cause I was watching founders day the other day.
19:34And I think that they had, they ended it like six times.
19:36It's like, just stop, just put this movie to bed.
19:39Yeah.
19:39What is that?
19:40Yeah.
19:40There's the whole, the false ending, you know, on steroids or something.
19:44It was not great, but you know, it's like, I, I interview rock bands a lot of times, you
19:49know, a lot actually.
19:49And, um, sometimes they'll just talk about how like a certain song or something just starts
19:54speaking to them and they just kind of go with it.
19:55Do you ever find that when you're writing a movie?
19:57Yeah.
19:58A hundred percent.
19:59It's always, I mean, you would ask the question before how it all started and I was very general,
20:04but, um, you know, it's usually something somewhere that won't let go, um, you know,
20:12that sort of attaches itself to you.
20:14And it might be just, um, you know, for me, you know, it started with the monster and then
20:20the imagery and I don't want to give away our, what the thorns are in, in the, the thing
20:26behind that, but, uh, we just built on that and that's kind of where the story came from.
20:32So I completely get that whole, uh, logic with how, um, songs could be written.
20:38Right.
20:39You know, and how many people that went to your, uh, the motion picture Institute, uh, helped
20:43you with this, any of them?
20:45Oh yeah.
20:45Yeah.
20:46Well, you know, when I do my, uh, you know, all of our, our students do their own things.
20:51When you come to the program, you know, it's a one-year program and you make your own movies,
20:55um, every semester, you know, you make a different movie and each one slightly more ambitious.
21:00Then when you graduate, we help you get that movie into festivals.
21:04And, and then of course we try and get you, uh, you know, uh, into the freelance arena,
21:09you know, to work on movie sets.
21:11And in these days, some of our grads relocate down to Georgia where there's a big film tax
21:17incentive.
21:18We used to have one and hopefully we'll return, but, um, you know, and I'll do my weekend movies,
21:25you know, I'll do a movie every couple of years.
21:27And when I do, I'll draw in, um, you know, some of the more talented and available grads
21:34and, um, uh, you know, our, uh, the art direction for this film, uh, was sort of spearheaded,
21:41uh, by a professional, but we brought a grad in and he sort of took over and, uh,
21:48um, you know, and so they're, yeah, they worked on these films as well, for sure.
21:53So Thorne's going to be dropping in theaters coming up on the 17th, like you said, uh, in
21:57February at Royal Oak and then on the 23rd, uh, throughout some more, uh, Michigan, uh,
22:01locations off to try, uh, I always like to go up to imagine on Tuesdays, I got the $5 movie
22:05night.
22:05So we always go there for those.
22:07Well, we'll put you on the guest list.
22:08If you, if you're available, any of the nights, come on out, we'd love to have you out
22:12there.
22:12So for sure.
22:13Hey, switching gears real fast.
22:15You know, I got, I got my haunted Michigan podcast.
22:17Uh, have you ever had a paranormal experience?
22:21Yeah.
22:22Yeah.
22:22We were making a movie, uh, and, um, we were, we were out in, um, kind of by Bay city and
22:31we were in an old farmhouse and we kept hearing a noise, um, that sounded like a faint scream.
22:39Um, um, and our audio guy, you know, how the audio guys have more sensitive, uh, you
22:46know, uh, directionalized audio on set.
22:50So we, we would start rolling and the audio guy would go, uh, no, wait, I'm hearing something.
22:56And we're like, well, we're not.
22:58And so I had to put his headphones on and you could hear it faintly, you know, and we could
23:04not locate it, but it sounded a bit like a scream.
23:08Uh, and it was somewhere in this farmhouse and it was just the creepiest thing I'd ever
23:15experienced.
23:15And I would have to say if that wasn't a haunted, uh, you know, ghost experience, then, you
23:22know, I've, then I never had one, you know, did it, did it finally stop or did, did you
23:25guys just, yeah.
23:26You know, well, you know, we were there for two other nights and we heard it one other
23:31time.
23:31And then one night we were all geared up trying to, uh, and then it wasn't there, you know,
23:36so, so obviously you must know, uh, that stuff can't always be predictable, right?
23:42Well, yeah, I suppose.
23:43Uh, yeah, you should call my friend, uh, Steve Shippey up there.
23:46He's in that area.
23:47I don't know if you know Steve, but he does a lot of the travel channel ghost stuff and
23:50that, and there's a lot of stuff up there.
23:52There's that Michigan hell house, which is up in the, like the middle of the state somewhere.
23:55Have you heard about that?
23:56Yeah, for sure.
23:58I mean, you know, isn't it amazing how, uh, uh, uh, how popular paranormal, you know,
24:05has become and just ghost, um, hunting in general.
24:09I think it's just amazing, you know?
24:11Yeah, that's great.
24:12Well, I'll tell you what, Doug, thanks so much for the time.
24:14Uh, good luck with, uh, thorns.
24:15I'm sure I'll bump into you somewhere.
24:17Oh, by the way, one last thing I forgot to ask you about.
24:19I wrote down here.
24:20Um, uh, my friend Kurt said that, uh, you had a, you have some stories with, uh, with Ron Ashton
24:24and the Stooges.
24:25Oh, yeah.
24:27Did you know Ron?
24:29Yeah, Ron was in, uh, one of the, the, our freshman film.
24:33We were fresh out of college and, uh, I was in my early twenties and, uh, Ron, you know,
24:40uh, through a connection was no longer obviously with the Stooges.
24:44Uh, and he was looking to switch gears and he wanted to get into movies.
24:48And so we cast him in, uh, this movie called Hell Master.
24:53Uh, and it was him, John Saxon.
24:57And then we had Dave Emgey from Dawn of the Dead.
24:59Um, and they were all together and we would just have these, I mean, we shot in, I don't
25:06know if you remember, um, Clinton Valley Mental Asylum in Pontiac, Michigan.
25:12It was this hundred year old asylum and it was active and we, we accessed it and we were
25:20making a movie there.
25:21And so Ron was running around there and, um, there were a lot of parties with Ron and he
25:28was a crazy guy and he had me over to his house one night and he handed me a loaded gun.
25:34Um, but I didn't know it was loaded and I, it misfired and put a hole in his carpet.
25:41And, uh, I, I was never invited back to his home after that.
25:46Well, I guess we'll end on a good rock and roll story.
25:51Yeah, right.
25:51Yeah.
25:52Doug, thanks so much for your time.
25:53Good luck with everything.
25:54Thank you, Meltdown.