Youth are more connected than ever — but with that comes serious risks. From scams to cyberbullying, PGDM’s Datin Seri Dr. Harnie Mohamed and Onysha Boak from Ratio:Cause unpack the growing threats online and how young people can play a role in building a safer digital future.
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00:00Hello and welcome to It's About Youth. I'm your host Fahna Sheh and this is the show that talks
00:13about issues that matter to youth. Now today we are excited to have with us Datin Seri Dr. Harni
00:19Mohamad, Chairman of Pertubuhan Generasi Digital Malaysia as well as Onisha Book,
00:24Ratio to Cost, a social impact agency. Thank you so much for joining us today ladies. Thank you for inviting us.
00:32My utmost pleasure. Now today we're going to talk about something very serious and very rampant that's been happening
00:39among the youth which is the use of social media as well as the rise of threats on social media
00:45that are impacting this group. Now let's talk about first, let's lay out the landscape here.
00:51Datin Seri, you know being in this PGDM for quite some time I'm pretty sure we are used to the way
00:58social media has evolved and youth online present. Do you mind laying the land with us?
01:04How has the use of online platform, social media when it comes to youth present as well evolved in recent years?
01:14First of all, thank you again for inviting us. Yes, this is a great topic having the youth.
01:24Usually social media is becoming a very vital item to the life nowadays.
01:33And it is a platform for the youth nowadays for casual connection. But they have to realise that to utilise these social media,
01:46they are, there is this concern where they must explore to the right things, they must take care of the ethics and they are concerned on abuse of words of,
02:01you know, in exchange of changing the ideas on how they want to conduct their conversation among each other.
02:07So in this casual connection with this platform, they become very active. Yeah, they become, it is where they become, I think I got stamped out there.
02:20Yeah, it is a central part of youth identity and expression and it is also their daily communication. So that's where they have to be very concerned on the rise of social media to use it ethically.
02:32So that is our concern. Right. Onisha, what's your take on this? You know, engaging with youth a lot, ratio to cost, I'm pretty sure also have programmes when it comes to online safety.
02:44So what's your take on the use of social media or I guess internet in general with youth these days?
02:51Right. Yeah. So I think we're really observing some trends here where it's sort of like internet users and social media users are getting younger and younger.
03:01Kids nowadays are getting, well, access to smartphones at a younger age or an earlier age. And in general, what we're also seeing is that social media is, as Dadin mentioned earlier, there's a lot of usage for connecting with friends, connecting with family.
03:19But besides that, there's also young people using social media as sort of like a way to get news, a way to understand what's happening in the world, getting ideas and opinions from KOLs and content creators.
03:36Right. So there's a higher reliance on people who make content on the internet to feed them information about what they should know and how they should think.
03:48I mean, I feel like I myself feel that social media or being online is a way of life already for youth these days.
03:55Right. I mean, you mentioned content creators just now. That's not a job that we are familiar with five, ten years ago.
04:02Yes. And it's already, you know, an income generator for a lot of youth these days.
04:07Yes. They become entrepreneurship. Yes. Yes. And they can even go for global connections from where they are and they can go into the other side.
04:16So how is that being controlled? So that's where we can see this is a vital tool for them to be connecting.
04:24We're going to get to some of the concerns that Dadin mentioned just now because, yes, there is a way to do everything ethically, I feel.
04:30And especially when it comes to online, my next question would be, what are some of the imminent threats these days targeting youth, especially online?
04:41Onisha, maybe you can start with, you know, what your thoughts on this?
04:46Okay. Sure thing. Yeah. I think if you have been following like tech news in Malaysia quite a bit, you'll see that there are more and more cases of data leaks and data breaches.
04:58So there's a lot of what's happening is that the things that we take as personal information, things that we consider extremely private and confidential,
05:07like our IC numbers, our full names, our addresses, all of these things are very easily leaked online and given to scammers.
05:16And scammers make use of this kind of information so that they can make a more convincing scam.
05:22And so besides that, there's this whole other issue of awareness of online safety and online harms, as well as a lack of digital literacy that is really worsening the effects of online harms that are enabled by all of these data leaks, as well as AI and deep fakes.
05:46Yeah. Another thing I could just add quickly because inappropriate content probably that's also another, you know, a threat that we need to look after.
05:59And they have to have a certain time probably for this kind of, they must have age limit to be able to serve on the right, you know, space where they're allowed to.
06:13And also digital addiction, it's a, it's also another threat. Time, we must be a certain time to be, to be outlined there. Time to work, time to sleep, time to eat.
06:28So it becomes an addiction. So the moment you wake up, this is what you look into, you, you work on it. So yeah, it's an addition.
06:35Right. Okay. So I'm picking up from initial data leaks and online safety. And I think data leaks, yes, there are perpetrators that are, you know, targeting youths, but at the same time, I feel that youths are also a bit cavalier when it comes to putting out the information online.
06:52Even sometimes putting out your phone and recording where you are, people know where you live and all that, right? So that's part of online safety. And on your part, Latinsiri, is the rise of inappropriate content.
07:06So I'm guessing pornographic materials, probably child sexual grooming, hate crime, cyber bullying and all that.
07:14Yes, cyber bullying, yeah. As a matter of fact, sometimes they don't realize that they, they think it's casual or probably they think it's, it's common for them to put it up, which is, yeah, inappropriate.
07:27It's like you are culturing another that's negative. So I think there should be a stop. But I think it's a growing thing that everyone should be aware of that.
07:37Maybe there should be some kind of limitation to that, yeah, to block out this certain kind of use.
07:44Right. I mean, I'm interested when you mentioned social media addiction just now because there has been a report recently of the rise in sexual crimes, especially in younger age in Kelantan.
07:56And the deputy Kelantan Mufti at that time said that it was possibly due to social media addiction or consumption of social media as a cause or inappropriate material like you mentioned as a cause to this rise.
08:12So what are your thoughts on this, Latinsiri?
08:15I hope my comments is not going to offend anyone.
08:19Don't worry. Let it offend.
08:22But there is some truth to it. Yeah, there's some concern. Yeah, we need to be looking into it. But we must be careful on not to oversimplify this issue because social media addiction is also a symptom.
08:38It's already a symptom to a broader digital illiteracy. So it's a lack of supervision and not enough to educate them.
08:47And this cannot be the root of the cause of that issue of such crimes.
08:53Well, we believe that proper guidelines and education, awareness and responsible use. And this social media can be a tool to strengthen them, empowerment. So we cannot treat it as the root of the cause of such crimes.
09:14So blaming the platform alone, I think is one thing to speak positively that we do not want to ignore the needs on how we must have the systematic change on the education, perhaps the parenting, perhaps.
09:35And also the social values on how we should be supporting one another.
09:42It's a bit more multifaceted, the problem that you're saying. So there's different approaches to it and not just one single factor that's causing it.
09:50Yeah, so I hope that's fair on both sides to say it nicely.
09:57We want to touch on solutions right after the break. But before that, Onisha, I want to talk to you about another rising threat that is scam.
10:08And I'm pretty sure, Onisha, you have dealt with a lot of youth creators in your ratio to cost programs that talks about scam, that talks about, you know, victims of scams, especially among youth.
10:19Right. So what's your take on, you know, scams these days, especially the ones targeting you, because you don't hear that, you know, a couple of years back.
10:28And now you have seen, you know, youths coming online on TikTok saying, hey, I got scammed. Hey, I was scammed this amount of money and this amount of money.
10:36What do you think of the rise of scams among youth?
10:39Right. So the rise of scams among youths is, I guess it's a little hard to pinpoint where exactly it's happening.
10:47But something that we do think is going on is that youths are just the highest percentage of social media users.
10:58Right. And because so much of their lives are lived online, they use it for online shopping.
11:03They use it to get jobs. They use it to earn an income. They're just more exposed to scams.
11:10Something I think that happens a lot is the usage of the fear of authority, the fear of messing up.
11:19So that's and also the fear of embarrassment, really, I think, which is how scammers really isolate their victims
11:29and prevent them from talking to other people about what they're going through and the kind of scary scam call that they're facing,
11:36so that they don't even know how to fact check it with other people like friends or family.
11:41So they become too scared to really say anything about it and they get up and they end up being trapped in the situation.
11:48They should share and they should let know the rest of the around them and they can share with others.
11:55So it become a known thing that, you know, it will help on others too.
11:59Right. And this is the part of solution that we talk about, that we are going to talk about after this break.
12:05Yeah.
12:22Hello and welcome back to It's About Youth.
12:24I am joined today by Datin Sri Dr. Harini and Onisha to talk about online safety and the threats of social media or dangers on social media with regards to youth.
12:35So, right. We talked about some of the challenges youth faces when it comes to eminent threats in social media.
12:41We talked about scams. We talked about social media addiction. We talked about, you know, threats of pornography and all that.
12:48But really, I want to know, as it is right now, is there any measures or steps being taken by, be it platforms, schools or governments, to curtail some of these threats online?
13:05Well, Onisha, we can start with you.
13:08Okay, sure thing. So, what's happening now is that platforms are implementing more safety policies and safety features for young people.
13:19For example, I think meta platforms have been increasing parental controls for teens.
13:27So, these would be things like screen time management as well as features that blur potentially nude photos and messages.
13:39So, these are things that do help parents keep their kids safer online.
13:43Besides that, the government as well as schools have been increasing their online safety campaigns and also online safety initiatives.
13:54So, for example, I think the MCMC and the Ministry of Communications have just started their Internet Selamat programs in schools.
14:02So, they're visiting schools to encourage more digital balance in the lives of kids as well as digital citizenship and responsibility for older students.
14:16And besides that, the Ministry of Communications has also been collaborating with Ratio to Cause for our online safety RLL campaign.
14:24Right. Right. Right. What about, yeah, I think the same, same thing. I think you mentioned quite all of them. Age restrictions, yeah. They have restriction on the, they have the tools to how to restrict on all this reporting and blocking all this kind of content, yeah, to break up.
14:42So, they're also making the awareness in school. And also making the awareness in school, start from school where they can have probably a session in one of the syllabus to make the students aware on how this going quite, you know, fast than any other things which they can identify.
15:02That's the first thing that you would know. Right. To identify the scammers, yeah, how to, yeah, to know.
15:07I think the government is part and part doing, you know, most of what you've mentioned and you also mentioned outline, you know, what the platforms are doing as well.
15:16Is there any gaps or missed opportunity or any aspects that you think that we have not tackled enough, especially with regards to curtailing it amongst youth?
15:28Let me share. Yeah, I think something that would be good is a more ethical framework for technological development.
15:40Right. I think what's really happening is with a lot of tech companies, what they're doing is they're rolling out the tech first and then when they see whatever harmful effects are happening,
15:50then they're just reacting to it, they're just responding to it. And that's already way too late for so many people who've been harmed by the technologies that they've rolled out.
15:58And I think that with what the government can do, with what NGOs can do and with what the private sector can do is really working towards ensuring that there are already safety measures in place when the technology is rolled out.
16:15And ensuring that there are ways to protect users and protect people, especially young people from the potential harms of what they are creating.
16:27Right. So having a more preventive framework as opposed to reactive like you mentioned, right?
16:33Maybe, for example, those tech companies, they are selling out the gadgets. So it comes along with a tutorial on how to actually guide yourself, stop yourself.
16:44There is a rules here on your timing, do not get addicted to, you know, when they get the gadgets, you're going to be 24 hours, hook on the gadgets.
16:56So there are no time for others. So maybe there are guidelines or probably perhaps they give a certain kind of tutorial session and give one day.
17:04One day you buy my computer, you get one day free for this session of awareness on how to actually your ethics serving the internet. So yeah, they could work too.
17:17So I don't think we've come across that buying something you come across with another session or a class.
17:24Right. So it's like an online safety measure or online safety course or whatever built in into the tech that you're buying.
17:32That's pretty cool. It's rather simple. I think they always encourage you to buy this for a discount, but why not insert that?
17:40Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's something definitely I think tech companies could invest on to be a bit more sustainable in its use.
17:47Yeah. Arisha, do you have any more ideas? Yeah, I think I would also add that there does need to be a lot more online safety and digital literacy education, especially for starting them young, especially with how so many schools are encouraging students to use online tools more.
18:05And so with the encouragement of usage of online tools at a younger age, we do need to really just start even younger with online safety principles.
18:14So there has to be a sort of understanding that not everything you see on the internet is real.
18:20Not everything that you hear from an online source could be even accurate or not AI generated.
18:30So there has to be a sort of understanding of how young people can have methods and strategies for fact checking, for verifying sources, for understanding that you can't just have one single source.
18:44You need to have several. And besides that, a sort of understanding that along with the power of digital tools and tech tools that they are given, there's also a lot of capacity to do harm with them.
18:59Right. Like for example, AI generated deep fakes and nudes of classmates even, which I think we've seen a bit of that in the news recently as well.
19:11Yeah, reality and fake. We do not know what is real. Sorry.
19:15Yeah. Yeah. So there has to be an understanding of how these kinds of content can harm people, even though it's online content.
19:24It's it still has serious consequences on the mental health and emotional lives of others.
19:31So I think with online safety, it's not just like preventing young people from being tricked, but also showing young people the way to harness the tools that they are given so that they're not using it to hurt others.
19:48Right. I mean, I mean, I completely agree. And also sips in a little bit into what you said about, you know, education when it comes to, you know, teaching them young, right?
19:57Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree that that they need. I mean, people not schools. This is already have iPads.
20:04Yes. We don't have that. Yes. So everyone's using iPads at school these days.
20:08And they are so tiny and they're holding a gadget already. They should, they should be aware of how to utilize them ethically.
20:15And when it comes to like the implications of all this, I definitely agree that people sometimes don't see it because it's not in front of them.
20:26You know, these are sometimes when it comes to cyber bullying or creating AI deep fakes of your classmates, for example, those are all done behind a keyboard or behind the iPad.
20:38So I think those, those values, those, those, those awareness on the implications are also lacking as well.
20:47Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I completely agree with what you said. Yes. Right. Talk to me about peer support because you mentioned just now that, you know, these problems need to be shared.
20:58You know, they shouldn't feel, feel when you talk about scams just now, they shouldn't feel embarrassed or they shouldn't feel alone when it comes to all this.
21:08Talks to me, talk to me about the role of peer support or community initiatives in protecting youth against the imminent threats online.
21:17Ratio to cost also is responsible for Youth IRL and Creators IRL, which are two programs that are aimed at online safety.
21:27Is that, you know, the, the part of peer support or community support that you're looking to build when it comes to this?
21:34Yeah, absolutely. So Creators IRL is our program for training content creators to speak about online safety in an engaging way in a way that their audience would be drawn to and familiar with.
21:46So because these content creators have built kind of like online communities of their own, they would know how to really put out messaging that speaks to their audience and also is memorable
22:01and provides them with some actionable tools for keeping themselves safe online.
22:08So that's what we did with Creators IRL and Youth IRL is really our way of training the next generation of digital policy leaders, but also digital policy advocates to their own youth communities.
22:23So yeah, I mean, from what we're doing, our focus is really on making sure that within the communities, within the different interest groups online, people have someone there who's sort of an expert in online safety, who knows how to help others navigate these digital spaces better.
22:48And it's when you have approachable people, when you make all of these online safety conversations open and welcoming, that's when we think that we'll have actually like community knowledge in terms of combating scams and online harms, as in we can share with each other easily, like what to look out for, what not to do, what to do.
23:15And so once we have all of this in place, it will be a lot easier to just share knowledge and also prevent each other from being scammed.
23:25Once they know, they feel that they are being the victim, they want to land somewhere where they can feel protected. So there's a source where they can refer to or maybe report to or they'll be comforted and will be resolved on the solution, whatever in the situation that they're having.
23:45Yeah, I think it's the peers, the friends and someone where they can contact with, to share with. I think it's, it is playing a big role there. It's powerful.
23:54Yeah, sure.
23:55Yeah, and I mean, what we really want to work to is just the normalization of online safety conversations. Like we don't want people to feel ashamed of talking about when they've been scammed or we don't want there to be a stigma against people who have been groomed online or people who have experienced cyber bullying because it's when these topics are taboo or unapproachable that all of these high
24:24harms can continue to go on. So it's really by making sure that we can talk openly and increasing empathy for each other that we'll have like, we'll have a better online space for all people.
24:42For everyone. I mean, I mean, who else are youths going to listen to if not other youths, you know, their peers and their friends and the kind of community that sort of builds each other.
24:52So, so yeah, that's definitely, you know, a great initiative to involve, you know, creators or KRLs into this.
24:59Right. We are almost at the end of our session, but I think I would spend a minute or two, maybe less on creating a digitally responsible generation because this is coming off, you know, PG, Pertubuhan Generasi Digital Malaysia.
25:17So what does it take brief, what does it take to build a digitally responsible Malaysia?
25:24I think I feel that before they explore to something is good to equip themselves with knowledge on how to actually conduct whatever that they are exploring into get a proper knowledge, be educated on it and get the right information and understand their rights and the responsibilities online.
25:48And I think that's important starting from probably on their first gadget that they own and how to actually conduct their programs or conduct usually on the device, start on it.
26:05So I think serving into that, then you must know what are the guidelines. I think that's the role.
26:10Yeah. Seeking knowledge.
26:11Yes.
26:12And Onisha to wrap this up.
26:13All right.
26:14Yeah.
26:15So I think to build a digitally responsible Malaysia, it's, it's really no different from building a responsible Malaysian society.
26:24As in there's, there's no, there's no division now between what happens online and what happens offline really, as in the things that happen online can have such effects on people and on and their lives that either way, we have to ensure that whatever we do in digital spaces, whatever we say, whatever we post is responsible for the
26:54and shows that we care for each other.
26:56But thank you so much for both of you for your insights on, on, on, on how we can approach online safety for use more effectively.
27:05I, I commend you to for, for all the efforts that you have been doing on the ground as well.
27:11So again, thank you for joining us for all the insights.
27:13That's all from me.