In this episode of Got People Say, we delve into a very relevant topic in today’s digital world - the impact of online harms in Singapore. As the Internet becomes an increasingly indispensable part of our lives, has that also been accompanied by a rise in online harms such as cyberbullying, online harassment and cancel culture? Content creators Julie Tan, Mathilda Huang and Kevin Tristan open up about their experience being victims of online harms with Ms Simran Toor from SG Her Empowerment and host Munah Bagharib.
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00:00 And to be discussed like by men, it just feels like, why do they have the rights to do it?
00:23 God people say online harm isn't real harm, but how accurate is this statement?
00:29 Welcome to God People Say, a talk show where we provide a space for healthy discourse on
00:34 contentious topics often left unspoken.
00:36 I'm Munah, your host for today.
00:39 Now in this episode, we will be delving into an important topic, Singapore's approach
00:44 to online harm.
00:46 Now with social media and the online sphere becoming more prominent in Singapore day by
00:51 day, is there a risk for further increase in online harms like cyber harassment, cyber
00:57 bullying and cancel culture?
01:00 Is anonymity one of the most significant factors contributing to online harm?
01:05 And what more can be done to support victims of harm and hold perpetrators accountable
01:11 for their actions?
01:13 Now joining me today are three individuals who have had past experiences with different
01:18 types of online harm and Ms Simran Tur from SG Her Empowerment who will be sharing her
01:25 insights and expertise on Singapore's internet space.
01:29 Now let's get to the discussion, shall we?
01:32 But before that, introductions.
01:34 So my name is Mathilda, I'm a content creator and cyber security analyst in my 9 to 5 and
01:39 I create content on mental health, body positivity and fitness.
01:43 Hi everyone, I'm Julie Tan.
01:45 I started acting since 17 and I've been in the media industry for 13 years and been a
01:51 content creator for 13 years.
01:55 Hi everyone, my name is Simran.
01:58 After 20 years as a lawyer, last year I left legal practice to head up a charity on gender
02:03 equity called SG Her Empowerment or SHE.
02:06 One of the things that SHE does is we look at online harms and how they affect girls
02:11 and boys online and we also run Singapore's first online harms help centre called SHE
02:17 Cares at SCWO so I'm sure we'll talk a bit more about that later.
02:20 I'm Kevin and I am also a content creator.
02:24 I've been doing content for about 5 to 6 years.
02:26 I'm not sure, I don't count.
02:29 I'm also a performer, I dance full time and I also am a fitness instructor, I teach a
02:36 bit.
02:37 Alright, thanks guys for joining us for this discussion.
02:38 Now we'll get straight into it.
02:41 Online harm is generally understood by most people to be harmful content or behaviour
02:46 in an online setting.
02:48 Maybe we can share what online harm means to you.
02:51 It is when someone purposefully tries to hurt someone else through an online platform.
02:59 Malicious or not, or intentional or not, if it does any bad to the person who's receiving
03:04 it, that's perceived as online harm.
03:06 How do you think online harm differs from harming someone offline?
03:12 Online harm is actually quite a broad definition.
03:15 Generally there's what's called legal harm, things that are clearly an offence, like I'm
03:19 harassing you might be an offence.
03:21 But there's a huge swathe of conduct that can be done online that's not illegal but
03:26 it's very harmful.
03:27 It's something that we call lawful but awful harm.
03:30 Given the amount of time people spend online these days, it's those lawful acts that can
03:35 actually impact people the most greatly.
03:37 But what we know right now is that it's serious, it's actually traumatic.
03:41 So if someone was going to stalk you, they're not going to purely stalk you online, it will
03:44 happen in the real world and online quite often as well.
03:47 So we shouldn't just look at this in a silo, we should consider it holistically.
03:52 Can you share with us an incident of online harm that has stuck with you?
03:58 So for myself, I started acting at the age of 17.
04:03 Back then I was just starting out, next thing you know, you have fame.
04:08 And then the next thing is a friend sent me a link to a forum.
04:13 And inside the forum is discussion about your body, about you as a person.
04:19 And back then I was one of the artists who kind of openly shared that, "Oh I'm in a relationship,
04:23 I'm dating someone, this is my boyfriend."
04:26 In the forum, there is full-blown conversations about how you are doing some things and nasty
04:33 things and stuff like that.
04:35 And I kind of regret clicking that link.
04:38 I don't really need to know what they're talking about.
04:40 How did you feel though, finding out when it first happened?
04:44 It's really my private life and to be discussed by men, it just feels like, why do they have
04:54 the rights to do it?
04:55 And they would say, "With great fame, definitely that is one of the effects that you need to
05:00 take it."
05:01 But I did not ask for it.
05:02 And it actually seriously affected my mental health.
05:06 And there was actually a short period of time I was actually self-harming myself.
05:11 Yeah.
05:12 I mean, at being at the age of 17, no one really taught you how to be a celebrity or
05:19 how to even prevent online harm.
05:22 No one mental prepped you to how to deal with the reality of being a public figure, for
05:28 example.
05:29 And we just kind of think that, you know, being a young teenager, we are being ourselves.
05:34 We want to show the world who we really are, but not knowing that we handed the dagger
05:39 for them to stab us.
05:40 But the thing is, to them, to the public, they will just think that, "Oh, you want
05:44 to be an actress, but you need to accept it."
05:47 But do we really need to take it?
05:50 Do we really need to accept it?
05:52 I got chills listening to your story because, crazy how we're in the same couch.
05:57 I didn't know you before this, but I 100% feel for you.
06:00 I went through the same thing.
06:01 This 20-page forum discussed so many different depths about my body and how they deluded
06:09 at one point that I had thyroid and I was thinking like, "Okay, do I really have thyroid
06:14 disease?"
06:15 And that's crazy, right?
06:16 I mean, how can someone's opinion, someone who I don't even know, affect how I looked
06:20 and felt about my own body and questioning my own general physical health?
06:24 I took another approach from you and we wrote in to the moderator.
06:28 There's clearly some cases of doxing.
06:30 They managed to find out my condo apartment at that point in time.
06:33 With that, we used that piece of ammo to the forum and told them, "Take it down.
06:41 It's obviously against privacy or data privacy, etc."
06:44 It's a horrible feeling having to feel like you have to stand up for yourself and having
06:47 to deal with all these different comments said behind my back.
06:51 Even though I was preaching for things that were so important like mental health, being
06:55 happy in your own body, and why do I deserve this?
06:58 I don't know.
06:59 I just haven't figured it out.
07:00 I hear that a lot too.
07:01 Like, yeah, you put yourself out there.
07:03 You have to.
07:05 This is just part and parcel of it.
07:07 But I think there's a line, right?
07:08 There is a line and it's something that I think we need to talk about a lot more, which
07:13 is like the myths that operate in our minds and the misconceptions about online harms.
07:18 She, as Jihae Empowerment, put together a little guide, 10 myths about online harms.
07:22 And one of them is, "If I put my image online, I deserve all the hate I get because I put
07:27 my image online."
07:28 And that's not true, right?
07:29 I can put my image online.
07:31 That's my freedom of expression.
07:33 But it doesn't mean you can be horrid and abusive to me, right?
07:36 There must be a line in your conduct.
07:38 But about 30-something percent of Singaporeans actually believe that, yeah, you put your
07:42 photo online, I can say whatever I want.
07:43 So these are things we need to start correcting.
07:46 Do you feel like hiding behind an anonymous facade or a user perpetuates this behaviour?
07:56 I definitely think it plays a factor because when it's not you who's saying it, but in
08:02 a way, you have a facade, you have some form of protection.
08:05 No one, if it's anonymous especially, people feel like they have all the power in the world
08:12 without any consequence.
08:13 No one would ever say in your face in real life.
08:15 The problem is, in the online space, the perception at least is there are no rules.
08:19 No one is going to enforce it.
08:21 No one's going to come after me as an individual.
08:23 So this is how you can expect human beings, unfortunately, to behave if they feel that
08:27 no one's watching and no one will come after them.
08:30 Do you think it will help if we start from young?
08:35 No, absolutely.
08:36 I think there's a lot of organisations now looking to go into schools and work with MOE
08:41 to teach them something a bit more than cyber wellness and health and turn off your phone
08:45 at 8pm.
08:46 The meaningful things that can happen online, like what is an algorithm?
08:50 At least understand that what you are seeing may be fed to you by your own actions.
08:54 So I think we need to evolve a little bit, but start early.
08:57 The idea of cancel culture.
09:04 I think one big one for me was when I got cancelled.
09:09 Do you think it's ever beneficial or appropriate for someone to be cancelled?
09:13 To some extent, it's quite necessary.
09:16 I think it's a good thing.
09:29 [BLANK_AUDIO]