Texans general manager and executive vice president Nick Caserio joins Payne & Pendergast with a look ahead to the rookie minicamp and more.
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00:00Are you ready?
00:02Sports Radio 610 presents Pain and Pendergast.
00:10All right, there it is, 7.30 on a Wednesday, DX playing.
00:15It is the walkout music of our guest at this time.
00:18Joins us fairly frequently throughout the year, and we always enjoy chatting,
00:22especially right after the draft and right before the rookies get here.
00:25Always good to catch up with Texans Executive Vice President
00:28and General Manager Nick Casario.
00:30Nick, good morning.
00:30How are you?
00:32Morning, fellas.
00:32Thanks for having us.
00:33Congratulations to my good friend Triple H on his induction.
00:36Yeah.
00:37On the heels of his music there, so it's great.
00:39I don't know if you got to see his speech because it was happening, you know,
00:42during draft season there, and it took an hour and ten minutes.
00:45I don't know if you get an hour and ten minutes to do extracurricular stuff like that.
00:49I saw him walk out and spray the water everywhere, so it's pretty much on brand.
00:53So it's about the extent of it.
00:54So there will be an off-season study.
00:56I'll get to it a minute.
00:56There you go.
00:57Yeah, I'll send you all the links to all the YouTubes and everything.
00:59You'll be good to go.
01:00How are you feeling?
01:01How are we feeling post-draft and pre-the-rookies getting here?
01:05Are they in town yet, the rookies?
01:07They'll be on their way, I want to say, tomorrow at some point.
01:10So travel tomorrow.
01:11I'll be here Friday, Saturday.
01:13Sunday will probably be pretty light.
01:14And then they'll kind of transition with the rest of the team here on Monday
01:18as we work through Phase 2.
01:20So more than anything, these couple days, these upcoming will be more of an introduction,
01:25just kind of give them a foundation, just kind of focus on the players that we have.
01:29Our drafted players, undrafted players don't really have too many, like, tryouts.
01:33...type player.
01:36I'm going to get them on speed.
01:36So excited to get them in the building, excited to get started.
01:39Some of these players have been on their own working.
01:42I think there was a clip or a picture of, like, Mertz, Jackson, and Noel were working
01:47out together because they're all from Kansas City.
01:49They all had helmets on.
01:50It looked like they had, like, Hutch helmets on.
01:51They didn't have any pads.
01:52So it was like when they were growing up when you put those oversized helmets on.
01:55But they're working.
01:56They've had contact with the coaches.
01:58They've had Zoom.
01:59So they're just trying to get up to speed relative to the information from a football standpoint.
02:03So excited to get them in the building, excited to get started.
02:05Yeah, does this feel like a rookie class?
02:07You guys, you and D'Amico, make, you know, such a prominent thing that the culture in there,
02:14the love of football, all those things.
02:16Does this feel like a rookie class to you that's going to fit right in, like,
02:19hand in glove with the guys you've got in the building already?
02:21Or is that something that you need to kind of ascertain over time here?
02:24Yeah, we'll have a better sense when they walk in the building.
02:26But we feel the worker ethic mindset, their competitive drive, their competitive nature.
02:30They possess the qualities that we covet in players.
02:33I think all teams really kind of covet some of those qualities in players.
02:37So I think the focus is on football, is trying to improve as a football player,
02:42understanding, like, they have to come in and earn their opportunity with their work
02:47and with their effort.
02:48So come in, forget about everything else, and just go to work,
02:53which is what a lot of these players have done over the course of their career.
02:56So we're not going to ask them to do anything that they haven't done
02:58or I'm accustomed to doing.
03:00But they just have to understand what it means to do it within the context of our building
03:04and our football team, understanding that we feel we're going to have a competitive team.
03:08So they're going to have to earn their opportunity with their performance.
03:11And that comes with what they do on a day-to-day basis.
03:13I think it was after night one that, you know, there were some things that happened in the draft
03:19that you expected that maybe the public at large or the mock drafts weren't predicting.
03:25Was there anything about the draft this year that was kind of a surprise to you,
03:28various position groups or anything that went maybe higher or lower than you expected?
03:32I wouldn't say big surprise, Seth.
03:36I think more than anything, sometimes, and we've talked about this, I mean, mock drafts.
03:40I mean, you guys know how I feel about mock drafts and post-draft grades and all that other nonsense.
03:44But really, the mock drafts are about positioning where a player potentially is going to fall
03:50relative to a range.
03:52I would say, in some cases, they were really out of whack.
03:56And then all of a sudden, you have this, like, mad dash two to three days before.
04:00All of a sudden, this guy's, like, moving up the board or his positioning has changed.
04:05And we actually kind of anticipated, I'd say, the first 10 to 15 coming off,
04:11not coming off exactly the way that they came off,
04:14but having some understanding of the group of players that we expected.
04:17So, and then, again, as a draft, as you work yourself through the draft,
04:23so players come off, it's really a case-by-case, and it's very team-specific.
04:28And then players are taking, you know, they're drafting players
04:31and taking the players that they covet, that they want, that they want to add to their team.
04:35And eventually, it's going to kind of thin itself out,
04:37and then you're drafting, like, a different level of players.
04:40So we've talked about this.
04:41I've talked about this just relative to a range of players or grouping of players
04:45at a certain level and where they kind of fall on the board,
04:49where they fit relative to their grades.
04:51So not necessarily anything surprising.
04:55We add the flows of the draft.
04:57I think we try to maintain as much flexibility, adaptability,
05:02and it's very fluid, understanding players are going to come off.
05:06There's going to be certain players, if you have three or four,
05:08you might lose all three.
05:10And if you lose them, what's the next alternative?
05:12And you just kind of keep it moving.
05:14So try not to get too high, try not to get too low,
05:16adapt to the circumstances as you go.
05:19And, you know, we felt that that's kind of how those three days won.
05:22Is there a part of that, though, too, where, okay, you know,
05:24you said you felt like you had a pretty good feel for the top 15,
05:27and obviously there's players that we've talked about a lot that went in the top 15.
05:33Is there a part of you where, before the draft,
05:35and you're trying to monitor kind of what all the scuttlebutt is,
05:38that you're like, all right, well, we think this guy should go in the top 15,
05:41but it looks like there might be a chance he doesn't go.
05:44Is there a little bit of extra eyebrow raised on some of those guys?
05:48You're always prepared.
05:49So, again, you don't know exactly how it's going to go.
05:52For me or anybody to sit here and tell you, like, okay,
05:55this is exactly how it's going to go, I mean, they'd be lying to you.
05:59So it's just more having an understanding of the players,
06:01having an understanding of the value,
06:03just having a general understanding of the ballpark of where they're going to situate
06:06and fall.
06:07And if the player's there at a certain level, if you feel comfortable with him,
06:10you take him.
06:11If you don't, if he's not there, then you move on to the next cohort of players.
06:15So, like, with Tyler Booker, and we don't even have to talk about, you know,
06:20whether you guys like Tyler Booker or anything.
06:21And, you know, now that he's a player on another team,
06:24however much you're allowed to talk about him, like, he's a guy that was, you know,
06:28for a long time people were saying, oh, look at this guy.
06:30He's going to be a mid-first-round pick.
06:32Then he has a, he has a poor combine performance.
06:37Like, at what point, with a player like that,
06:39obviously the Cowboys, who have drafted really well in general over the past
06:43several years, like, is there a point where you just say, all right,
06:47like, like, the film is the film, and we've watched him do it for a while,
06:50and we just, do you throw the combine results completely out
06:53and just stand on your evaluation?
06:55Yeah, you know this, Seth.
06:57Between February and the draft, like, what actually happens that changes a player's
07:03quote-unquote value or statue, other than everybody's talking about it,
07:09everybody's got an opinion, and then it kind of gets shuffled around.
07:12So, at times there's a lot of noise, which you have to be somewhat disciplined
07:17to block out the noise.
07:19How the player performs, any player, how a player performs,
07:23and he plays, and his body will work, that's going to be the bulk of the assessment.
07:28So, you have the physical evaluation of the player, what they do on the field.
07:32Really, a player is not going to move up or down the board
07:36because of a 15-minute combine interview or, you know, a two-minute combine workout,
07:41at least from our perspective.
07:42Other teams may feel differently, and there's 32 different teams,
07:46and they go about it however they feel appropriate.
07:49So, focus on the player, focus on their performance, focus on their production.
07:53What are some of the things that they do well?
07:54What are some of the areas they can improve?
07:56If a player has a deficiency, can we improve that?
07:59If the player does have a deficiency, then it goes back to their mindset.
08:02Do they have the desire to get better?
08:04Do they want to take coaches?
08:05Do they want to improve?
08:06Are they focused on football?
08:07Or are they focused on a lot of other things that really don't matter?
08:10So, again, you have to be careful not to, outside of the film, sway your decision.
08:20You evaluate the players.
08:22You grade the players.
08:23You gather information.
08:24You assign the grade.
08:26You go back and forth.
08:27At some point, whenever that is, when you kind of put the player to bed,
08:31you're comfortable with what you think the profile of the player is,
08:35and then you move on to the next group of players that we have to find out more information on.
08:39Maybe they have something outstanding.
08:40Maybe they have a personal situation that has some extenuating circumstances
08:44that could have affected some things.
08:45Those are the things that you try to focus on.
08:48The combine is the combine.
08:49The testing is the testing.
08:50Everybody gets a data point.
08:52Okay, the guy ran fast.
08:53All right, great.
08:54He ran slow.
08:55Okay, he didn't jump high enough.
08:57Again, how do you weigh that in your overall, I would say, evaluation process?
09:02I'm going to have more weight than others.
09:04Again, it all goes back to, like, what's your philosophy?
09:07What do you believe in?
09:08What do you prioritize?
09:09And then, ultimately, that's what drives you to your end decision.
09:12Nick Casario, Texans GM, joining us here on Payne and Pendergast.
09:16Nick, just another thing on the draft, but a specific thing with the move you guys made
09:21to move out of the first round.
09:22People make a big deal out of, okay, these are the extra picks they got for moving back.
09:26You get the two extra threes.
09:28How important was it for you to not move too far back?
09:31I mean, we saw a trade right after you at the 26th pick between the Rams and the Falcons
09:36where the Rams move down into the 40 somewhere, but they pick up an extra first.
09:40How important was it for you with that specific deal to not move too far back because you end
09:44up getting Jaden Higgins in that deal?
09:46Yeah, Sean, that's a good point.
09:47I think you have to be careful of whenever you move out of a pick, A, how far back are you
09:52going, and then B, it's a product on the board.
09:57So, at some point, you're going to lose X number of players.
10:01So, either A, you have to be comfortable with that, or B, if you do move back off of, let's
10:07call it, 15 to 20 picks, do you have the ability to get into a spot, maybe move up five or ten
10:13spots to get back in a range that can give you an opportunity to maybe pick a group of
10:18players that you otherwise would lose out on?
10:21I would say an example of that was, so we moved off of 25, went to 34, which we felt
10:28was a reasonable spot.
10:29It wasn't quite as far as we moved last year when we did the trade with Minnesota, which
10:34was done before the draft when we moved kind of in the mid to low, it was 22, we ended
10:38up going back to 42.
10:40So, all right, there's 15 to 20 players, and I would say, you know, last year, going back
10:45on that, like, we were comfortable in the 40s, could we have moved up a little bit?
10:49Sure, I think we tried to move up a little bit, but in the end, we ended up picking Kamari,
10:54who we're probably going to pick anyways.
10:55So, sometimes it kind of works itself out, I would say, even in this draft, when you look
11:00at, so we move off of 25, go to 34, we felt we were going to pick at 34, and then we were
11:06able to kind of get a little flexibility, the extra third, but we did have a little bit
11:10of a gap from 34 to whatever it was, 65, or whatever that pick was in the third round.
11:15So then, as we were evaluating it, we had acquired that extra third round pick with the Giants
11:21trade, and then we were able to move kind of in that 48, 49, 50 range, kind of that mid-second
11:27round range, because we felt that was probably a decent range where we could get a player,
11:31like, as an example, Ursary, and then you pick, all right, then you have a gap, if you
11:39pick the 34, then your next pick is in the 60s or 70s, it's 25, 30 players, so how many
11:46players are you going to lose, what's the next sort of break point, so that just goes
11:50back to there's an ebb and flow of the draft, so you make a trade, you know where you're
11:55positioned, then it's you flip the page to what's the next move, do you want to move back
11:59in, do you want to move up, are we comfortable sitting where we are, if we sit, here's what's
12:03going to happen, which I would say not to get too far ahead here, but I would say that
12:07was part of the rationale with the Woody Marks pick, once we picked on Friday, we didn't
12:11have a fourth or fifth round pick, and there was a certain group of players, I would say,
12:16that we had graded, and the likelihood of them probably making it to the sixth round, or
12:21wherever our first pick was in a sixth, more than likely was not going to happen, so we
12:26had discussions, said, look, we have an opportunity to go back into the fourth round, to get to
12:30a certain level, is it worth doing, and then once we made a decision it was worth doing,
12:35then we gave up the future third, which we had acquired from the Giants trade a couple
12:40days earlier, which a future third is really present value of a fourth, so then you're asking
12:45yourself, would we pick this player in the fourth round of this year's draft, and I think
12:49the answer was yes, so that's why we ended up making the trade to move back into the
12:54fourth round, and then pick Woody, so that's the ebb and flow of the draft, and you guys
12:59have followed us enough to know, we'll pretty much do anything, we're open-minded, and things
13:04move pretty quickly, and if you know the players, you know the board, kind of top to bottom, if
13:08you have some conviction, then you go ahead and make the decision, and then pick the player,
13:13and then move on to the next opportunity, press conference, if there was still a player on the
13:21board that you were considering at 25, is there still somebody there after the first round that
13:26you were considering at 25 when you made that trade, is it fair to assume that Jaden Higgins
13:30was the one player that you volunteered there, that you cited that, yeah, there was one guy?
13:34There were some players I think that we probably would have picked in the first round, so Seth
13:39Payne was probably one of those players, if he were on the board, we had his card up there
13:43pretty high, so, yeah, but, I would say, Jaden was a player that we liked pretty consistently
13:51throughout the process, so, but there were certain players that we would have felt comfortable
13:55taking at 25, or at some point in the first round, and vice versa, in the second round as
14:00well, yeah, I'm sorry, I was just thinking, I know, he's flustered now, I got a flashback
14:06through my draft, no, I was going to tell you, no, Nick, I've told you many times, there's
14:10like various ways that I screwed up the draft process, but the dumbest thing I ever did
14:15was, when I was visiting Jacksonville, they told me they really liked Ronaldo Wynn, and
14:20I knew Ronaldo, defensive, you know, and there's like, hey, we really like him, but, you know,
14:26if we don't get him, we'll go, you know, we might take him in the first round, if we don't
14:30like him, if he's not there, then, you know, we might go ahead and take you, and my dumb
14:36mind, as a kid, I thought that they were telling me they were going to draft me in
14:38the first round, if Ronaldo Wynn wasn't there, that's how I would have heard it, yeah, luckily
14:43my agent was very, very smart, that would be my interpretation as well, as they said
14:47to me, basically what they meant was, and they ended up drafting Ronaldo in the first
14:50round, they drafted me in the fourth round, I was very insulted, you were close, yeah,
14:57no, no, no, no, I like Ralph, Ralph's a good agent, that's great, you ain't no first round
15:03pick, son. All right, Nick, I got to ask you this, what was your reaction of all the,
15:08of all the draft picks that you, you know, you pick up the phone and you call, when you
15:12call Jalen Reed in the sixth round, and you're just getting hit with the barrage of this,
15:16right here, this, and again, Ben, hit it again, and again, and again, and again, were you hearing
15:21him scream, let's do it, that whole time, or were you just, that was a wild phone call?
15:26Yeah, no, I was trying to just introduce him, hey, excited to have you here, and I couldn't
15:31talk, so, kind of let him have his day in the limelight, he was excited, so, at least
15:35he didn't say, let's effing go, and then we had that recorded, and then we would have
15:40had a bigger issue, but. Yeah, social media team's like, ah, yeah.
15:44No, but no, he had a lot, a lot, a lot of energy, very excited, and that's kind of his
15:49personality, that's how he plays, so, but that was a fun, that was a fun moment.
15:54Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Texans GM Nick Casario joining us here on the program this
16:00morning. All right, Nick, so, circling back to the current group of guys, and obviously
16:06a lot of change on the offensive line, a lot of churn there, when it comes to Titus
16:11Howard, do we know yet, is he going to be playing tackle or guard, and is that a decision
16:16that needs to be made before heading into training camp, or is that something you can
16:20actually kind of mix and match, I mean, those two very different positions, obviously, where
16:24are we at with that with Titus right now?
16:25Yeah, I think you have to look at each case individually, and in the spring is different
16:31than training camp, you know, when you're actually on a field, so I think whatever you're going
16:37to do, whether it's something schematically, whether it's something personnel-wise, to give
16:42them an opportunity, maybe experiment with something a little bit different, I would say specific
16:45to Titus, that's an example of a player that he's actually shown that he can play at a good
16:51level at either spot, so there is sort of an innate level of versatility, I think sometimes
16:58that term is used a little, I would say not carelessly or freely, but the assumption is
17:05a player just has position versatility because of A, certain measurables, or he should be able
17:12to do it, but if you've actually never seen him do it, it's hard to make that extrapolation,
17:17and to make that assessment, and you're really not going to know with that player until you
17:23actually get into training camp because it's a little bit of a dynamic, but I would say
17:27in our situation, we feel like we have a number of players that will be able to compete in
17:32the offensive line, and we have certain levels of players or certain grouping of players,
17:37you have sort of tackle-only group, you have tackles that can play guard, and I would say
17:42in Titus' case, he's proven that he can do that, on the inside part of the line, you have
17:48players that are center-only, you have players that are guard-only, you have players that
17:51can play all three inside spots, so what we're trying to do is build up as much depth and
17:57versatility, like legit versatility, not just on a piece of paper, you're going to pencil
18:01something in, this guy can do multiple things, well A, if you've never seen him do it, it's
18:06hard to make that assessment, but B, if you do get in the opportunity, maybe you'll have
18:12a little bit more information, so that if you are forced to move, some players are of
18:17a comp level, so we're sort of in the infantile stages, yesterday was the first day on the
18:21field of actually individualized work, and then once we transition to phase three, when
18:26we practice, we'll have different, you know, I would say combinations of players, and the
18:30same thing in training camp, all to arrive sort of at the same end point, who are the
18:34five best guys that we feel most comfortable with, we're going to have eight players at the
18:39game more than likely, so you're going to have your five starters, and then your three
18:43backups, you're going to have a next tackle, you're going to have a next inside player,
18:46and then you're going to have an extra player, and then what do you do if you lose a tackle,
18:51who goes to that spot, do you put the third tackle in the game, do you move somebody from
18:55a different position, so there's different, but similar to draft, there's going to be a little
19:01bit of an ebb and flow here, and we'll get more information here as we work through the
19:04process. Yeah, and that's another thing with the modern CBA, or the current CBA, there's just not as
19:10much practice time, there's not as much practice time in pads as there used to be, if you take a
19:15guy like Ariante Urseri, who's only played left tackle in college, and you know, you get him into
19:22camp, like at what point do you feel comfortable in camp thinking, all right, well this guy, this guy
19:28might be able to handle this, without really being able to see him do that much work in pads, like
19:34how do you make that leap from having a guy play just tackle, or just left tackle, to okay, we're
19:39playing left and right tackle, or oh hey, we might try him out of guard. Yeah, you got to be careful
19:44with that, Seth, I think the first two, three weeks, you should have an understanding of A, how it's going
19:50in whatever position that player is playing, I think one of the things you always have to be
19:54conscious of, a position that's not favorable to him, if you're asking a player to do something
20:02that he's never done before, where's that sort of line of demarcation of when you A, introduce it,
20:08and then B, how much work can you actually get done, let's say going back to my experience in New
20:14England, you know, we drafted Solder, you know, as the third tackle, he was trying to figure out, we had
20:19Light, I think we had Sebastian Vollmer there as well, Houston Cougar, and it's like, all right,
20:25what do you do with Solder, you just try to fit him inside, well, maybe that's not the best thing,
20:28I think he was like the jumbo tight end, and you know, we went to kind of heavy personnel
20:32grouping, and eventually he transitioned, you know, Light was another player when he was drafted,
20:38you know, he was a little bit undersized relative to tackle, so Bill, they moved him to right tackle,
20:44tried him inside, it wasn't really good at any of those spots, his best position ended up being left
20:49tackle, you know, Matt had a really good career, 10, 11 year career at left tackle, so you have to
20:56take the player, it's always case by case, some can handle a little bit more than others, but
20:59you just want to make sure you're not putting the player in a position that's not favorable to them,
21:05where they really can't accentuate their strengths and do what they do well, so I would say in Tay's
21:10case, and D'Amico mentioned this the other day, Tay's a tackle, really, until he's not, so I think the
21:17focus initially will be on tackle, and then we'll see kind of how we mix and match the rest of the
21:21group, could that change, possibly, I think the one thing you always have to be prepared for is just
21:27about anything, so sometimes you're forced to maybe make some decisions because you, injuries or
21:32whatever else happens around you, but you want to make sure you're making a good decision on behalf
21:39of the player? You know, with Ursary, I came around on Ursary because of John Harris specifically, and it was
21:46because I, the first time I watched Ursary, I'm like, man, I, you know, he's really tall, and he doesn't, like, in my
21:52opinion, he didn't play with great knee bend, and I just didn't know about him, and then I talked to John Harris, and I
21:57read some of the stuff he wrote, and he was talking about his athleticism, so I went back and watched him again, and I
22:01realized, like, oh, yeah, he gets from point A to point B, he's doing, he's doing a lot of really athletic
22:06stuff really, really well, and then when you guys drafted him, Daniel Jeremiah said, hey, some teams love him
22:12and look at him as a late first-round pick, some other teams look at him as a third-round pick. Is, is part of
22:18that just simply because he doesn't, he's deceptively athletic, like, he just, I think, are there some people
22:22that look at a guy like Ursary and think, like, oh, okay, no, that guy's just not, like, the, the type of, he's not a
22:27Laramie Tunsil type of fluid mover, and they're turned off by that versus other people that just look at it and say, yeah,
22:33but he, he gets the job done. All offensive, offensive linemen, Chester's probably gonna come
22:39to this office and strangle me, but again, athleticism and offensive linemen, how you define
22:43that, I think it's, it's different, but it's, I'd say a couple things you want to focus on. A,
22:50can they play on their feet? Do they have a certain degree of bend? Do they have the ability to move
22:54laterally and kind of stay in front of rushers regardless of the position? So, not how fast do
22:59they run from point A to point B? Like, that's, like, it's important, but it's really not unless
23:04you're going to run some G scheme or crack scheme or you're pulling around, you get to see the guy
23:08run, but that didn't really happen a lot, and I would say in Ursary's case, you know, here's a guy,
23:12how big, if he big is, 6'5", three-third and five-flat, which is, like, a decent time for an offensive
23:20lineman from point A to point B, but it's about, you're, you're talking about functional athleticism
23:25as it pertains to, it's, everything's in a short space, so can you move laterally enough to stay in
23:31front and pass protection, and then really what you're looking for, their capacity to redirect,
23:36you know, if there's an outside rush and they cross-face them or they rip inside and then you
23:40got to get back to your inside hand, the ability to kind of stick your foot in the ground and react,
23:45so maybe if you're lacking a little bit of, I would say, lower body flexibility, maybe you're able to
23:51compensate that because you have a certain level of playing strength. If you punch with your
23:55inside hand, so there's different ways to kind of evaluate that, but I said the big thing is,
23:59do they play on their feet, do they stay in front of the defender, and then in a running game,
24:04their ability to move or displace people at the line of scrimmage, are they able to roll their
24:08hips on contact, so it's always going to be a little bit different. Sometimes beauty's in the eye of the
24:13beholder a little bit. I'd say Laramie is kind of like, there's only, he's his own category. You have him,
24:19Trent Williams, like that level of athlete is pretty rare, so then you kind of take those
24:25players out of it, then you're looking for a functional level of movement, and in the end,
24:29can you get the guy in front of you blocked? Like, that's the most important thing.
24:34Nick Casario, Texans GM, joining us on the program. You're listening to KILT and KILT HD2,
24:40Houston, an Odyssey sports station. Nick, just circling back to the offensive line and the moving
24:46parts that you guys have, a lot of decisions to make there, and as you mentioned, a lot of guys
24:49that can play multiple positions. You're also installing a new offense, or at least there's a
24:55new offensive offense. How challenging is it to install a new offense while having all those
25:02moving parts going along, all that evaluation going on on the offensive line?
25:07Well, actually, there's some benefits because essentially everybody's kind of starting at
25:10the same ground level, so everybody's kind of starting from scratch, so it's a first opportunity
25:15for the players, whether it's the offensive line, skilled players, there's a certain level
25:21of transitions. So this is what the spring is for. The focus is on system installation and the focus
25:27for the team, and D'Amico talked about this the other day, like phase two is really about mastering
25:32your fundamentals, because in the end, everything is going to go back to your basic fundamentals
25:37and techniques. So if you can execute those things, I mean, not to like transition to a different
25:42sport, but essentially the Cavs lost the game last night because they couldn't block out after a
25:47free throw. So everybody wants to talk about all these other things, but in the end, it comes back
25:54to basic principles, blocking, tackling, fundamentals, which is that's what phase two, that's where the
26:00primary emphasis is. And the fact that we're all kind of starting at the same point, there's actually
26:07a lot of advantages. You don't have to worry about anything that's happened in the past. You don't have
26:10to worry about, well, we did it this way somewhere else on this different team. Well, we did it this way
26:14last year. None of that is really germane. What really matters is where are we right now?
26:20What's the focus for the day? What's the emphasis point? What are the coaching points? So that's the
26:24job of the player to internalize that, to have an understanding, and then focus on your fundamentals.
26:29So when you have to apply those in critical situations, you have something that you can
26:33resort back to. So honestly, it's hopefully we can take advantage of our opportunities here over the
26:39next four to six weeks or however many we have. Okay, you asked for it, Nick, in one of your
26:44press conferences during the draft. You requested a definition of drafting for need. So I did.
26:51I went to where I go for 90% of my sports takes these days, my hottest takes. I went to AI.
26:59Chat GT, which mode are you using? I'm using, I don't know, whichever one. There's a lot of tools out
27:04there. It costs me more per month than I should be paying. Is 610 paying for that? Or is that a
27:10personal expense? No, no, no, no. This is why I have my YouTube channel, specifically so I have
27:15business expenses that I can write off. Okay, this is Gemini. This is what Gemini defines. And I'll be
27:22honest with you, Gemini sounds like they're kind of down on drafting for need. But the basic definition
27:28they give is, when an NFL general manager drafts for need instead of best player available, it means they
27:34prioritize selecting a player who fills a specific positional weakness on their current
27:38roster, even if there's another player available with a higher overall talent grade, according
27:44to their scouting evaluations.
27:49That's Google's product out there, folks, just in case anybody's interested in Gemini, I believe.
27:54Did you find that explanation useful?
27:57Well, no, I don't know, because I don't even want to ask you the question. You've answered
28:00this a million times. I guess the biggest, if we were to kind of build on some of the
28:05answers you've given us and other people about this, it's, you know, and from talking
28:09to other people, kind of the way teams construct their boards, you've talked about how when
28:14you look at players, you do the offense or in the defense. And that the way it's been
28:20explained to me before is that you're going, best player available can also, it does have
28:26to include, all right, does this guy A, fit our scheme and B, is there a place for him?
28:31But it's like, so you're not, you're not necessarily veering off of your board on draft day, but
28:38your board is going to look different than other teams' boards who already maybe have
28:41like three all pro wide receivers. Is that, is that fair?
28:46Well, I would say even in that case, let's just say you had three all pro receivers, you're
28:50not going to grade the player any differently as you would as if you didn't have that player.
28:55So I think how we've always tried to look at it is just, if you're just starting from scratch,
29:03forget about the current composition of the team, said player, here's the grade, here's
29:09the role that we potentially foresee for that player, and then you're comparing that to
29:14another position. At some point, you are going to work horizontally across the board, and then
29:20if you have to make a decision about equally graded level players, then ultimately you just
29:24have to make a choice about, you can only pick one, and you pick that player, and then
29:28you move on. So I'd say the current composition of your team doesn't necessarily affect the
29:35grade and the evaluation of that said player. Ultimately, then it comes down to the team's
29:40choice or decision about adding that player to your team. I would say just not looking at
29:46too many other teams, but in the case of, I would say the Ravens, like there's an example
29:52of, they probably took one of the best football players that was still likely the highest graded
29:58level player. They have Kyle, like they have a good secondary. Now here's another player that
30:05is probably going to fit in fairly well. How they use him, how they deploy him, who knows?
30:10We'll find out because we're going to play Baltimore. But I would say, like there's an
30:14example of, well, we have Kyle Hamilton. Do we draft Malachi Starks? Well, okay. Well, if the goal
30:20is to try to build a good football team with good football players, understanding you're probably
30:25going to need everybody at some point in time, then you go ahead and make the decision. Again,
30:30I'm not like speaking on behalf of Eric, but I would just say when you look at that situation,
30:35that looks like an example of, man, that was the best football player that was on the board.
30:40So they were looking up there going, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. So let's
30:43add him to the team. And we have a lot of respect for the way the Ravens run their, I would say,
30:48organization and program. Buffalo, I would say, operates very similarly. So again, you know,
30:54everybody probably has a little bit different philosophy, but I think there's been other general
30:58managers who have made comments probably similar to mine. And I don't think that's just lip service.
31:03I think that's the reality of it. And that's kind of, you have to be careful of if you draft a player
31:09because you just feel like, A, we have this gaping hole and we can't miss out, even though he's graded
31:16a little bit lower than another player. I mean, it's, it's a tough way to operate.
31:21You just got to, it's fair to say that it's a, the need is a tiebreaker at the very least. Like,
31:27if you've got like equally, equally graded players, if you've got those three all pro wide receivers,
31:32and there's a wide receiver and let's say you need a, you know, you really want pass rushers,
31:39you're going to take the pass rusher. Yeah. At some point, you just have to make a decision,
31:43what you feel most makes the most sense for the team at the present time. So if there's a tiebreaker,
31:48maybe there's something that maybe leans it one way or the other, but I would say by and large,
31:52you're just take the player, take the evaluation. Do we have conviction? And is there,
31:59I would say a little bit of a organizational conviction on the player. So it's top to
32:04bottom. It's just not what the coaches think. It's not what the scouts think. It's kind of a
32:07collective, here's how we feel. We're comfortable with it. All right, ready, go. And then move on
32:12to the next player. So it's always a kind of an interesting discussion, especially around draft
32:17time. So, you know, free agency is kind of its own entity in that discussion and everything that
32:22goes on there. Then you get to the draft. It's all tied together. And ultimately our goal is to try to
32:27make good sound decisions that are the best for the organization and just try to fill the building
32:32with as many football players as possible. And then ultimately, once we get them in the building,
32:37we have zero control over it. The players are going to ultimately determine who plays,
32:42how big a role they have based on their performance. Nick Casario joining us on the show.
32:46Hey, Nick, along those lines, just sticking with wide receiver, from your standpoint in terms of
32:50roster building, how are you viewing Tank Dell right now? Just since we know he's recovering from
32:55the injury and he's in good spirits. And it sounds like the surgeries have been very successful,
32:59but how are you viewing him in that, you know, that two-year window that you talk about all the
33:04time? Yeah, I mean, right now, no timetable. I think the focus is on his rehab. So whenever Tank,
33:10I think D'Amico was asked about this the other day as well. And his comments are probably similar to
33:14mine. Whenever Tank is available, he'll be out there. So Tank's a good football player. He's proven
33:21that he can help our team. So right now he's focused on his individual health and just doing
33:26the best he can on a day-to-day basis. And when he's ready, you know, he'll be out there. Tank can
33:31certainly help us. He's proven that he can help us over the course of time. So, you know, we'll kind
33:35of take it one day at a time and then just kind of evaluate and monitor his progress as we go. But
33:40he's been great to have around. He's got a great attitude. He's been a good player. So,
33:44you know, we'll kind of see how it goes moving forward.
33:45What, um, I was, uh, I was, somebody had asked me a question about Jalen Noel the other day,
33:51and he asked how, how he compares to Wes Welker. So I went back up and, uh, you know, I know you
33:56love the combine stats as much as I do. Uh, and I was already mad at me after Wes is already mad at
34:01me after my comments on the first night of the draft, when I talked about, I love Wes. So it was
34:05actually meant complimentary because I'd asked about size and I talked about Wes being 4'1".
34:10Honestly, I'm looking at, I like, I like looking at their spider charts that show all the measurables
34:19and Wes Welker went undrafted originally. And I'm looking at this. And if somebody had told me,
34:23oh yeah, the Patriots traded a second and a seventh rounder for this guy with this athletic profile.
34:29Oh my God.
34:32Well, he didn't his, if I don't have it in front of me, I think he ran like four, seven,
34:36he didn't run very fast. But his short space quickness, yeah,
34:40his short space quickness, lateral agility was actually an area that stood out. And you saw that
34:45in his play. Yeah. Yeah. And he was very, very small. And like, so you look at Jalen Noel,
34:50Jalen Noel's a smaller guy, but he, he tested very well and he's got all those measurables. I guess
34:55with, um, the, how do you, how do you make up for like Wes Welker did or anybody else? Like aside
35:03from the speed element, um, like Jalen Noel's got a smaller catch radius anatomically. So what's
35:08the difference for guys that make it in the NFL? Um, like Jalen Noel, if he, if he makes it,
35:13there's no one particular formula, I would say. I guess specifically to Jalen Noel,
35:20like what's, what are the things other than the athleticism that make up for it?
35:23Yeah, I would say his toughness, his overall instinctiveness, his playing style. He's got good
35:29speed. I would say for his position, um, he ran a good time. So, I mean, again, sometimes the time
35:37speed and the game speed don't always match up. I would say in his particular case, he has good
35:42speed. You know, he has good time speed. So those two kind of marry up. Um, he's got strong hands,
35:49even though he's smaller, he's not like that small. He's a pretty sturdy, I would say, rocky kind of
35:54blocked up kind of dude. Um, honestly, his build is similar in some respects to Christian. They're
36:00not a Christian Kirk. They're not small players. They might be quote unquote shorter, but they're
36:05not necessarily small players. They might play big for their size. I would say like going back to
36:11my time in new England, like Edelman played strong for his size and Julian's not the biggest guy. So
36:17I'd say there's a certain level of playing strength. There's a certain level of instinctiveness.
36:21There's a certain level of toughness. I would say in Welker's case, nobody was tougher than
36:26Wes Welker and he had very good instincts on the inside part of the field. And he kind
36:31of developed those over time and he was a reliable catcher. And then Tom did a good job of the
36:38receiver and just understanding like who you're thrown to. And then Wes had the ability to create
36:43separation in a short space. So if you're a shorter player or a smaller player, like you
36:48have something that gives you the opportunity to kind of differentiate yourself from the others,
36:54like Higgins and Noel are obviously different receivers. They're both productive receivers and
36:59their skill sets are a little bit different, but in some respects they have some similar qualities.
37:04They're able to create a little bit of space against tight coverage. Ultimately, it comes down
37:08to your ability to create some space versus tight coverage. So how that I would say develops and
37:13evolves over time, we'll find out. There'll be some nuance involved. There's a coaching element
37:18involved. So there's a lot of things that go into being, you know, a good player. And if you have
37:23maybe an area that you're deficient, what do you have on the other side of it that you can help
37:27offset? And I'd say that applies to really all players. There's no quote, quote unquote,
37:32perfect player. They all have things that they can work on. They all have things that they can
37:35improve. And each player just has to try to maximize whatever they have to the best of their
37:40ability. Nick, we sort of have an unofficial award on this show at the beginning of training camp.
37:44The, uh, we gave it to Will Anderson last year. The, uh, the Will Anderson body type change
37:50trophy that we give out, you know, who, who put on the most good weight room weight in the off
37:54season, that kind of thing. Um, my, my hope and prediction for this year is that that trophy goes
37:59to Blake Fisher. How is Blake's off season going and how are you feeling about him going into year
38:04two? Can we give it to D'Amico? I mean, yeah, dude, him in the weight room. He's, he looks like he's
38:09put on some good, some good weight room. Wade also D'Amico. He would, I said this the other
38:14day, he would definitely beat my ass. No, he's good. Uh, Blake, Blake looks, looks good. He's
38:20been here. I'll give you two other players actually. So Ladarius Henderson has actually
38:25sort of reshaped his body. I think nobody's worked harder than LB. I mean, I know he lost
38:30his whole year last year because he was dealing with, um, the foot injuries, but I think he's
38:34lost, I mean, 15 to 20 pounds of like body fat and he wasn't like a heavy kid to begin
38:41with. It was just, he wasn't able to do a lot, but I would say like the level of commitment
38:45and focus that he's shown, I mean, honest to God, like it's a tremendous accomplishment.
38:50Um, and I would say just looking at Kamari, like he looks physically in his upper body, um,
38:56a little bigger, a little thicker. Um, so I mean, that's what the, I'd say off season program
39:03is for, and if you have an opportunity, you, you have, if as a player, you have an opportunity
39:07from February to April to really make some progress. In the end, this all goes back to
39:13work. What's your level of commitment? How committed are you to being a good football player?
39:18What's your level of want to? And there's no substitute for hard work, not to like oversimplify
39:24it. This goes back to like the block out example. It goes back to hard work, disciplined, consistent,
39:30focused work. And I would say those are some players at this point that have shown that we
39:35have a number of players that have, that have done that. I think phase one voluntary program,
39:40we had 93, 94, 95% of the, of the, of the team that was here. So the most important thing is if you
39:47want to improve as a football player, how do you get better at football? You focus on your work and
39:51your individual development. And this is just really a starting point. It's only May. You still have
39:55May, June, here over the summer, like those four to six weeks are vitally important. So
40:01a lot of players that have made a lot of progress to this point. Hopefully they continue to make
40:05it over the course of the spring. Nick, real quick, Nick, Figge's mad at you for bringing
40:09up the Cavs. He's a big Cavs fan and he just texted me. We're both from Cleveland. I know.
40:14Yeah, yeah, yeah. They've had a great year, but like learn how to block out after a free throw,
40:18man. Come on. Come on now. Come on now. Is there anybody or any of the undrafted rookie free agents
40:25guys that, you know, I always like to adopt a UDFA per year. And, and, and then Sean writes them down
40:32and remembers them for me. Cause I use, I'm a, I'm a horrible adopted. I forget these kids. Yeah.
40:39They don't make the team. He's a deadbeat football parent, Nick. What, uh, is there a,
40:43is there a guy we should be keeping an eye on perhaps that you feel like, uh, you know,
40:46it just has something to him? It's a smaller group, but you know, we feel like there's a
40:51couple of guys in there that have an opportunity to potentially compete for some reps. Um, I would
40:56say to Funa, the defensive tackle from Utah, you know, some decent things, six, three, 300 pounds,
41:01good playing style, has some toughness to him, really good kid. Um, and the receiver from Minnesota,
41:08I know, you know, probably be an uphill battle there, but, uh, Jackson had a really good career.
41:12He kind of falls into the football player category. Maybe didn't run fast relative to
41:17some others, but really productive with opportunities. He did a good job, um, this year
41:21and then in years past as well. Um, you know, so those are a couple of guys. I mean, again,
41:26I think we signed what is six or seven, whatever it was of a smaller group. So hopefully those
41:31players come in here and it's just, that's all we asked them to do is compete and just try to
41:35create a little bit of a niche for them to come in here tomorrow.
41:39You know, I was thinking, Nick, when we brought you on this morning at seven 30,
41:42I was thinking like, okay, I can ask Nick if he's had a little downtime now that the draft is over,
41:46but of course you got the rookies coming in. And then there's this reminder that really GMs never
41:50sleep because there's a trade that gets announced at five 45 this morning with the Cowboys pickings
41:55going to the Cowboys or whatever. I'm not going to ask you about that trade, but, but in general,
42:01like is, is yours a 24 hour job? Like can a trade, what's the weirdest time of night where
42:07you've ever consummated a deal? Yeah, it's continued. I'd say free agency,
42:11sometimes when crazy things happen, like I've been in a situation laying on a couch and you're
42:15trying to go to bed and then, you know, your phone starts ringing at one o'clock in the morning.
42:18It's like, come on people, let's deal with this tomorrow. Yeah. So, but look, the reality is the
42:24role is continuous. You just kind of transition from one phase to the next. I mean, we finished up
42:28Saturday, Sunday, it was, you know, an off day, if you will. And then honestly, Monday, Tuesday,
42:35right after the draft, it felt like those two days were as busy as the week before. It's just kind of
42:40a different focus and attention and what you're working on. So our opportunity for sort of
42:46downtime, downtime comes over the summer. Like once we finish up with the mandatory mini camp,
42:51then they'll kind of be a little bit of a break league wide. Then that's the opportunity to really
42:55unwind and definitely try to take advantage of that. But I mean, that's the beauty of this job.
43:00So you're always kind of prepared for anything and, you know, try to be smart with your time,
43:03time, try to be efficient, try to maximize the day, get as much out of it as you possibly can.
43:08So there'll be some things I'm sure that'll pop up here, at least from our perspective as well,
43:12team wise. I mean, it might be an opportunity for us to add a player or two.
43:17That we, so that's part of the job and, you know, you have to embrace that and you have to
43:21understand it. And you've got a great, we have a great staff around us. So enjoy every aspect of
43:26it. And there's really no quote unquote downtime. It's just kind of a shift the focus to a different
43:32area of work. And that's kind of where we are here in the office.
43:35As long as they don't interrupt you while you're watching McAfee versus Gunther on Saturday night,
43:38right? That's Saturday night. Okay. Yeah. How do we think that's going to go?
43:42So McAfee is the writers think on that one. Well, you know, you can actually get action on this,
43:46Nick. I don't know if you knew that, but McAfee is a plus.
43:48I'm not allowed to get axed. Now you're not, but I can plus 800. He's a plus 800 underdog in this
43:54thing. Okay. All right. He might have a shot. He might. I don't know if there's a tough cat,
43:59man, that sleeper hold. Like he looked like he took that one pretty well a week or so ago,
44:03whatever it was. He did set. You should see McAfee wrestle. He's, he's actually really,
44:07really good. He's wrestling. He's a good athlete. Yeah. He'll tell you. Yeah.
44:11I mean, he didn't get put in a sleeper hole. Then he was doing his show the next day. So
44:14he was able to recover from the sleeper. Yes. I like that, Nick, that you treat these
44:19wrestling injuries like they're real. He got up off the mat and he did his show the next day.
44:25I love that. I got him in that regard. Yeah.
44:30That's it. That's it. All right, Nick. Well, we'll, we'll see you out there. It's a practice
44:34on what Friday and Saturday this week, right? The rookies are out there. Can't wait. Look
44:39forward to seeing you guys. Thanks for having us. Always. Always enjoy it. Always enjoy the time.
44:42Appreciate it, Nick. Thanks. Thanks guys. Yep. Good stuff. Nick Casario, Texans GM.