Texans executive vice president and general manager Nick Caserio talks with Payne & Pendergast about the offseason trades, free agent signings and contract extensions so far this offseason.
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00:00Sean Pendergast, Seth Payne, and if you know that music's playing, it can mean only one
00:04thing on this show. The walkout music for Texans Executive Vice President and General
00:08Manager Nick Casario. Nick, welcome in. Great to talk to you, as always. And now that I'm
00:14hearing that music, I think this is the first time we've talked to you since you've become
00:19best friends with Triple H.
00:20Good morning, fellas. Thanks for having us. Yeah, no, exactly. I had the opportunity to
00:27introduce myself at the Sloan Conference. He was on a panel with the Netflix Chief
00:33Content Officer. It was actually a great discussion about how they've transitioned from the live
00:37programming on Netflix. And then after, I said, look, I got to at least go up to him
00:42and say hello and introduce myself. Told him that I have walkout music when I go on a show
00:47with Payne and Pendergast in the morning. And he said, wow, that's a good choice. So
00:51we got a little kick out of that. So that was a lot of fun. So it was great to meet.
00:54He thinks I'm a lunatic, but I mean, that's OK.
00:57That's good. You know, there's no, no room for lunatics in his business. Really put out
01:03by it. I was surprised he didn't book you for a match at WrestleMania. He actually did
01:07invite me to the next WWE event in Houston. So whether or not I actually take them up
01:12on that offer, we'll, we'll see. But he did extend the invitation. So maybe you two of
01:18you can go in my place and you probably have a lot more fun. What do you do if one of the,
01:23if they approach one of your players, like it seems like Will Anderson would probably
01:26be a good candidate to be a part of the show. Like, what's the process there? Do you have
01:31to, do you have to really like, do you hammer out a contract with the player? And WWE is
01:37like what he's allowed to do and not do?
01:40The contract is don't do anything dumb. So if you want to make an appearance ringside,
01:44that's probably about the extent of the contractual discussion.
01:47So just like push somebody or something.
01:49Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause Kittle, George Kittle's been a part of it. There's a few guys that
01:53have been a part. There's been a few. Yeah, exactly. Let's stay away from hell in a cell.
01:57Don't be jumping off like a Mick Foley. Can't do anything like that. So I'm curious, Nick,
02:02and we'll get into the off season and whatnot here in just a second. I am curious. You,
02:06you go into the, the, the Sloan concert, the concert, the Sloan analytics conference obviously
02:11seems like something that's right up your alley from a football standpoint, they got
02:15groupies. Yeah, probably. Like that group being real genius, the MIT nerds. Um, what,
02:24what do you walk away from something like that with that helps you from a football standpoint
02:28as a GM?
02:29No, it's interesting. And I think, um, I have a really good relationship with Jess Gellman,
02:34who, um, CEO of craft sports group, Daryl Murray actually started the conference a number
02:40of years ago. Obviously the Houston fans are familiar with Daryl and his time here in Houston.
02:45So more than anything, it's really a think tank and they bring in different people from
02:50different lines of work, uh, business, sport, entertainment, and it's just some idea generation
02:59is designed for the, the MIT students and some other students as well. It's an opportunity
03:04for them to kind of listen and learn, um, to some different folks in some different
03:08industries. Um, because of my relationship with Jess, I'm always open to just having
03:13those dialogues and discussion. The panel I was on this year, I was actually on a panel
03:17with Daryl and, uh, and David Stearns, um, the, the GM of the Mets, um, who's done a
03:23really good job, not only his time with the Mets here in a short period of time, but,
03:27um, Milwaukee as well. And it's really, it's a very organic, um, you usually have a panel,
03:32there might be a topic. Um, and it's just, you're listening for some ideas, some interesting
03:37thoughts. I thought the panel in all seriousness with Triple H and Bella was, was really interesting
03:43how they've grown their product, how it's interesting, the, the number of women fans
03:48that are engaged and interested in wrestling and not to go like WWE here, but they talked
03:54about the scene of heel turn and how the response instantly on the social media, on Twitter
04:00or X, whatever you want to call it was, it led to X number of followers. So it just got
04:06more eyeballs to, to sport. And in the end, it's, that's all about entertainment, but
04:10just talked about how they've grown, how they've kind of transitioned going from USA
04:16to Netflix. And, um, so listen to that. I listened to another panel, um, had two folks
04:23that were, uh, involved in private equity that are investors, um, in businesses, um,
04:28when soccer, um, and more than anything, you're just looking for, for thoughts. It's no different
04:33than the league meetings here. Um, you know, the first night they had Caitlin Clark, um,
04:39Eli and a Serena just talk about, I would say their experience, some of the things that
04:44they're doing, their involvement in sport, their investors in a multitude of different
04:48sports. Even you could look at JJ, what he's done, um, investing in, in soccer overseas.
04:54So more than anything, when you get an opportunity to just listen and be a part of, of groups
04:59and panels like this, maybe there's something that you take and that you can apply. There's
05:03a lot smarter people there than I am. So I just go to try to listen and learn. And out
05:08of my respect to my relationship with Jess, that's really one of the reasons that I do
05:13it. You know, it's actually Nick, something related that we were talking about earlier
05:17is about these torpedo bats, which I'm guessing, I'm guessing you've heard of the torpedo bats
05:20briefly. I'm not educated, as educated as you all are on it, but it sounds like it's
05:27a hot topic.
05:28I've got to leave in my shop that I'm working on my own version. So, um, no, but we, the,
05:34what we were talking about was just how hard it is that, that there's so many things going
05:41on, on the analytical side of things or on the technology side of things in sports. Now
05:47that one of the hardest challenges is actually just figuring out which ones you're going
05:51to use. And cause I was, I was sticking up for a spot at not knowing about the torpedo
05:55bats because it's like with a dozen things a day, that's going to revolutionize the sport.
06:02And it comes down to the organization, in my opinion, to really have a system for analyzing
06:07these things. So when you're looking at the analytical side of things and you guys have
06:11an analytics department, like, like most teams, how do you, how do you go about that part
06:15of it? Like figuring out, all right, we've got limited time and only so many resources,
06:20like, and, and we got to be ready. We got to, we got to have an offense ready here in
06:24a couple of months. Like, how do you pick what you're going to lean into?
06:28No, it's a great question. And I think the point that you make Seth, the reality is things
06:32are moving fast. Things are constantly changing. Things are constantly evolving. And more than
06:37anything, you just want to make sure you have some awareness of what's going on. And then
06:42you're looking, is there something out there that there's a useful application that we
06:47can actually incorporate into some of the things that we're doing? And the reality is
06:51you can't use everything. It's a law of diminishing returns if you try to do too much. But if
06:56there's a specific, I would say, piece of technology or some information that you might
07:01be able to apply in, along with your process that you have in place, then you investigate
07:09it and you see if there's a fit. If there's utility, great. If there's not, then you move
07:12on to something else. But to your point, the rate of change that takes place, it happens
07:18at such a high rate of speed. So you have to be aware, you have to be cognizant, which
07:22I would say a conference like the one that I attended, it gives you kind of some insight
07:28as to some of the things that are going on. But I would say philosophically, it usually
07:32goes back to basic blocking and tackling and first principles. And then you're in the periphery
07:39that you might be able to bring into your organization that you might be able to apply.
07:44So whether that's in coaching, whether it's in scouting, whether it's in sports performance,
07:48whether it's in the medical area, I would say we've talked at different points about
07:51the medical arena. Like that's an area that's constantly changing and evolving. So from
07:56ACL, reconstruction to surgery, the rehab associated with it, there's just a myriad
08:04of things that are out there. So I think you have to be smart and disciplined with how
08:08you approach it and just realize you can't be a part of everything. But organizationally,
08:14you're always looking for some things on the margins that maybe we can incorporate. And
08:18the reality is professional sports is as competitive as anything. So you're looking for things
08:22that potentially could provide you some competitive advantage that you might be able to incorporate.
08:26And apply it to your system that's currently in place.
08:29I'm glad you mentioned the medical part of it because Trent Brown, you know, obviously
08:33an interesting signing, but he's coming off a patellar tendon tear. And you know, there's
08:38not a whole lot of data on guys coming back from patellar tendon tears. It's just not
08:42that common an injury. So what do you like? Is that changed at all? Are patellar tendons
08:47not as dramatic as they used to be? Or is it still a huge wild card?
08:52Injuries are always a wild card. I think you can never really predict. It's all about the
08:55athlete response rate. And so what we try to do, whether they're healthy, not healthy,
09:00is when they come in the building, it's just going to kind of get a baseline understanding
09:04of where they are. So from their weight, from their imbalance, is there an asymmetry right
09:10leg to left leg? Is there a specific area that we can focus their training on? And I'd
09:15say you can build the training, I think, where you've seen the big issues in the customization
09:20of training relative to the individual athlete. It used to be, and we were all a part of this,
09:25you walk in a weight room, you get handed a card, and everybody kind of does the same
09:30program. Well, I would say over time, that's kind of changed because every athlete has
09:34different needs. Their body responds differently. What they're asked to do on the field is different.
09:39So you want to be able to train accordingly. Are there certain things that you're going
09:42to do with everybody? Yes. Are there other things that you're going to do that are specific
09:46to the athlete? And that's what I would say specific to the Texans, our return to football,
09:51return to play group, we can focus specifically on the individual rehab for that specific
09:57player. And then once they graduate from that, then they, once they are, they hand them off
10:02or they get handed off and we incorporate back into football, we just want to make sure
10:06that they're fully mentally and physically prepared for the rigors of what they're going
10:11to endure. So I would say it still goes back to case by case. Some injuries are harder
10:17to come back by than others, but it's all about how does the athlete respond to the
10:21injury? And that goes back to the training. It goes back to the program that you could
10:24develop and you can, the technology that's available enables you to measure this so we
10:29can have the information and just try to make a good decision about each, each player and
10:35their overall health and performance. Go ahead, Sean. Okay. Yeah. Payton Pendergast with you
10:40on a, on a Thursday Texans GM Nick Casario joining us. Hey Nick, just to start digging
10:45into the off season here. Um, and we'll start with the offensive line. Seth mentioned Trent
10:49Brown there, obviously a lot of new faces on the offensive line. You made the trade
10:54involving Laramie Tunsil changes with coaching. Um, what specifically are you trying to find
11:02that was missing from last year's offensive line room? Right to the, I thought we're going
11:07to transition to the Rockets and talk about their playoff group, but no, we'll talk about
11:10that a little bit later. Congratulations to them. Yeah. Um, no, there's never anything
11:15specific. I think what you try to do is after each season, you kind of take a step back,
11:20make an evaluation. All right. What happened? Is there anything that we feel that we need
11:24to do moving forward? Um, and there's going to be changed. We've talked about this on
11:28this show. Your team's going to turn over X number of percent each year. So every situation,
11:33um, you know, we kind of evaluate case by case. I don't think we went to the off season
11:37and said, well, we're going to do a, B, C, and D. That's never really how it works. Um,
11:42what you have to do is just kind of take inventory of where you are and try to take advantage
11:47of the opportunities as they present themselves. So in the Laramie situation, that was something
11:51that, you know, we weren't certainly intent on doing or that you were motivated to do.
11:57I think when we just looked at the situation, we felt that it was the opportunity in front
12:01of us that made sense. Washington had a need, and then we consummated the trade and ultimately
12:07we felt like that was the best decision for the Texans at that particular time. So I think
12:11you're going to, you always know going to the off season, you're going to add players.
12:14They're going to be some players that go on and off the team. There are going to be some
12:17players that go on and off the roster. We made, I would say, changes offensively from
12:21Coach Kaley to Coach Popovich. So from the coordinator to the offensive line. So that's
12:26kind of step one. There's going to be personnel changes that take place. We've seen a number
12:30of changes that have taken place across the entire team, not just the offensive line.
12:34So I think the big thing that we've talked about and D'Amico and I are focused on is
12:38just trying on a team possible. And in the end, it's going to go, it's going to come
12:41down to how well we execute on Sunday. So we're a long way from that. It's April 3rd,
12:46where we end up beginning of September or whatever the first game is, nobody really
12:49knows, but you know, we felt the way we're positioned right now. We have a number of
12:54players on the offensive line with varying levels of experience that have played a lot
12:57of football, including some of the players that are returning on our team. Obviously
13:01the players that we brought on externally have played a lot of football, how it all
13:05transpires and all, how it all sorts itself out. TBD. So, but you know, we feel like we're
13:10in a decent spot right now. And I think the big thing is just being able to get out there
13:14and get the five best guys on the field, you know, bring eight to the game, but get the
13:18five best guys that are out there and hopefully we can go out there and just play good football
13:22and execute on a consistent basis. So there were times as a team, I would say not just
13:27specific to the offense, the offense line as a team, did a number of really good things
13:31last year. There were other areas that, you know, we probably could have done a little
13:33bit better. So that's where, you know, it's a year to year league and your team's going
13:37to change and we're no different than any other team.
13:41You know, and D'Amico, when he's talked about the offensive line or the offense in general,
13:44a couple of times this off season, he's mentioned the importance of having one voice in the
13:48offensive line room. And he's also mentioned how with Kaylee and with Cole Popovich having
13:54a relationship before that, they, they're kind of on the same page already with a lot
13:58of things. Was there an element, and I'm honestly not trying to throw any one guy under
14:03the bus here or anything, but with the, the offense in its entirety last, over the last
14:08couple of years, were there, were there some instances where maybe you just had an offensive
14:13line coach and an offensive coordinator and perhaps a player or whomever else, were they
14:17just, they weren't filtered or they just didn't have the same common background that it wasn't
14:22as seamless as you would hope it would be?
14:25Yeah, I'm not going to speak for D'Amico, but I mean, you know, there's always a lot
14:29of communication that takes place. It's never one particular thing. So in the end, going
14:34back to when we made the decision, when D'Amico made the decision that he did to, to move
14:38on from Bobby, certainly was an easy decision. So, you know, what we're trying to do is put
14:43together what we think is the best situation or the best formula. And honestly, Seth, nobody
14:49really knows how it's going to go. Like, I can't sit here and tell you exactly how it's
14:52going to go. So I'd say the fact that Nick and Cole have some level of experience together,
14:56I mean, it always helps when anytime they have an opportunity to work with one another
15:00and again, it's under different systems. So there's going to be an element of, we're gonna
15:04have to work through some things in the off season. And that's, that's what March and
15:07April are designed for. Coaching staff get together. How are we going to call things?
15:12How do you see things? We're going to use this terminology. Okay. When this situation
15:15comes up, we're going to handle it this way and there's going to be some back and forth.
15:19So again, like we've won 20 games over the last two years. So like a lot of things that
15:24we were doing, you know, couldn't have been all that bad. So, but you know, we're just
15:27trying to figure out like, what's the best thing for the Texans? What do we think we
15:30got to do moving forward? Which is where we are right now. What is that going to mean?
15:34Honestly, I don't have the answers. None of us have the answers. Anybody that says they
15:38have the answers is probably lying to you. So I think we'll work through it here. We'll
15:42try to have a good off season, you know, try to get the players, let's say in good condition.
15:46And then once we get to training camp, obviously we're going to have more information. We're
15:50going to have a better idea of where we are and all the whole goal is to just make sure
15:54that we're as prepared as we possibly can be for whoever the opponent is.
15:59Mario Jengis on Sports Radio 610. So Nick, you get the deal done with Derrick Stingley
16:03Jr. You get the deal done with Deneal Hunter to add another year to his deal. Obviously
16:08Nico last year. Am I being presumptuous to say that you pretty much laid out the blueprint
16:13for getting an extension from the Houston Texans if you're a good football player and
16:16if so, what is that blueprint?
16:19Good player, good attitude. Go out there, be productive, work hard, put the team first
16:24and you know, you'll be rewarded. And again, it's not just those three specific players,
16:31but I think when you look at the overall composition of the team and the mindset and D'Amico has
16:36talked about this, what are the things that we're looking for? What do we prioritize?
16:40Like those three players are pretty good examples of what a Houston Texan football player should
16:46look like or what we want it to look like. Understanding every player is different. Everyone
16:51has strengths. Everyone has areas that they can improve. But those three players in particular
16:57are three of our better players. We feel like we're pretty fortunate that we have a lot
17:01of good football players on this team in this building. And again, going back to what I
17:07said a little bit earlier, everything is kind of case by case. So we'll look at it. We'll
17:11have discussions. D'Amico and I talk about the team. I don't want to say every day, not
17:15every day, but it's every day. And we're just trying to make sure that we're very thoughtful
17:20and we very do things with the right intentions. And you know, those players, they don't, they
17:27earn what they receive. We don't give out anything like this isn't like, okay, come
17:32in here and we're just going to give you, you get what you earn and the contracts are
17:36the contracts and every situation. But those players have earned what they received because
17:43of A, their play, how they play. B, the type of people that they are. C, their work ethic,
17:50their overall mindset. I mean, Stingley was in here the day that we agreed he was in a
17:54weight room and we're in the off-season. We're not even in the off-season program yet. But
17:57I think when you speak to the mindset and the type of people that we want to have on
18:01this football team, we've had almost 30 players in the building since the end of the season
18:06that are training four or five times a week. And the off-season program hasn't even started
18:11and including Stingley is one of those players. So Stingley was in there, Bullock was in there,
18:15Kamari Lassiter was in there. We've had enough, Petrie's been here basically since the end
18:20of the season. So that's speaks to, if you show up, if you work hard, we have all the
18:27resources that you need here in a building. Like you don't have to go anywhere else. Now,
18:30obviously some people are more advanced in some of their training. I would say, you know,
18:34I think there's some videos of Daniil working out, like Daniil's working, like you don't
18:38look like he does without putting in the work. So, you know, that's the type of program
18:43that we're trying to create. And it starts at the top and, you know, we try to be very
18:47consistent, very committed. And honestly, it takes a certain amount of discipline because
18:52we're not afraid to say, okay, here's, you know, we'll talk about the draft here in a
18:56minute, but there's players in a draft where we're going to move on from, or they're not
19:01going to, we're not going to consider them to be a part of our program. It doesn't mean
19:04there's anything wrong with them. It just means, you know what, they might be a better
19:06fit somewhere else and that's okay. And that's just part of our process. Does it mean we're
19:09going to be right all the time? Absolutely not. But we're just trying to be as consistent
19:14as possible on the way and committed and disciplined to our approach because we, for our team,
19:20and it's something that D'Amico and I believe strongly in. So as a result, we're going to
19:24make sure we try to find those players that fit and understand the mindset that we want
19:28them to play with and, you know, perform on a day-to-day basis.
19:32Nick, I have a follow-up on Jalen Petrie in a second, but I'm curious, just for some
19:36perspective, you said there's 30 players in the building right now working out and
19:40the off-season program hasn't even started yet. From your experience, what's a normal
19:44number that's in the building like that, for some perspective on that number?
19:48Not that many. And again, we've had, this is actually kind of an off week and this week
19:52is, you know, league meetings and, you know, coaches are off here this week and this is
19:56kind of an off week. But I would say just anecdotally, players who we sign in the off-season
20:04have made comments that other teams that they've been affiliated with, that they've
20:08never really seen anything like this. Just unsolicited offering that up, which is good
20:13to hear. So it speaks to the players, it speaks to our sports performance staff, it speaks
20:18to the people that are working with the players on a day-to-day basis. I would say not that
20:23many. You'll probably get, I would say anywhere from maybe 10 to 12 to 15 in kind of this
20:28dead period. So from basically, call it February and March or whenever your season ends, everybody's
20:34kind of on their own. Typically the off-season starts in April. Our off-season program officially
20:40starts April 21. And the first two weeks are just with the strength and conditioning staff.
20:46The coaches really aren't involved in that. So again, can't speak to necessarily what
20:50goes on in other buildings. I would say even going back to our time in New England, we
20:54had a decent amount of players in a round, but not the volume that we have here. A lot
21:00of people live in Houston or kind of around here. B, they want to be in the building because
21:06we have the resources available to them. And C, they understand in order to improve, and
21:11I've talked about this, if you want to get better at football, you have to work and work
21:17at football. So right now, the off-season, what can you do to improve? It's your strength
21:22and conditioning. It's your power. It's your overall development. Rookies, as an example,
21:26Bullock and Lassiter have been here. They didn't have an off-season program. So this
21:30is really their first opportunity to train with our staff on a kind of off-season type
21:36of cadence. So the players are here. It speaks to who they are. It speaks to their willingness
21:42and want to to get better. And we encourage them to be there because we have everything
21:49that they need at their fingertips. So other players, if they want to go elsewhere, that's
21:53okay. It doesn't mean they're not working, like I said. But to have that number of players
21:57in the building, it's a credit to them and really our strength and conditioning and our
22:02sports performance staff that they want to be here.
22:04You could publish the list of guys in the building. That would be great. That would
22:07really help us with our hot takes.
22:09We'll put that on our social media.
22:11These are the guys that want it. These are the swarmiest guys. They're in the building.
22:14The opposite of that was Sam Montgomery at LSU.
22:17Yes, exactly. Exactly. Hey, Nick, just to follow up about Jalen, you talked about the
22:24contract extensions. Obviously, Jalen is eligible for one. He's three years in now. And I know
22:30how much you guys, how much you value Jalen Petrie. Is he on the radar right now, possibly
22:35to be extended this off-season?
22:36Yeah, I'd say we're the number players. And, you know, we've talked about this. You guys
22:42kind of know how we operate. We're pretty flexible and open-minded. We don't have a
22:46finite, well, if we don't get it done by September 1st and it's off the table. I think
22:53at some point, for everybody's best interest, you might say, hey, look, let's try to figure
22:57this out over the next few weeks or whenever.
23:01We've done things in the off-season. We've done things kind of over the summer or in
23:05training camp. We've done a few during the season. So we'll maintain some flexibility.
23:10Always open to having discussions and dialogue, whether or not an agreement comes to fruition.
23:15It's very situationally based and case-by-case. But I would say there's a number of players
23:21that you'd like to keep as many good players and good people around this building for as
23:25long as possible. And if we get to that point, great. If we don't, it doesn't necessarily
23:31mean it won't work out. It just might means it might happen just at a later point. So
23:37I don't really want to comment specifically on any individual discussions with any players,
23:43but I would say always open-minded to having a dialogue with the player and their representatives
23:49and trying to figure out an agreement that everybody feels comfortable with. Because
23:52the goal is for both entities and both parties to be happy with how it went. You don't want
23:57to have, we're not trying to quote-unquote win a negotiation. We don't believe in that.
24:01That's not how we operate. You want something where the organization wins and the player
24:05feels valued and they feel like you've made them a priority. So we'll work through those
24:11things. But Jalen's been a good player. It's the day he walked in the building. He's had
24:15a significant impact on our program. He's a player that you'd like to have around here
24:21as long as possible. So we'll kind of see how all that works itself out.
24:25You had mentioned that Derrick Singaloo is in working out the day that he got that extension.
24:30And it's always, I remember Tom Coughlin being over the moon when a guy who was a late round
24:35draft pick after a few years, they redid his deal. And he was in there working out early
24:39in the morning before the OTAs, before the offseason program started. And the head athletic
24:44trainer told me that Coughlin was just so excited to hear that that guy was in the room
24:48that morning that he had signed his contract. But I guess the one thing that's changed since
24:5315, 20 years ago is that now, even the late round draft picks, if they've played three
24:58or four years in the league, they've made some pretty damn good money. Do you have to
25:04worry less now, maybe, because you've got a good track record of, okay, a guy that's,
25:10the guy, like, okay, Derrick Singaloo, he's already made $20 million in his career. If
25:14the money was going to ruin him, it would have ruined him long ago. Or if that was the
25:18only thing motivating him. So is there a little bit more comfort level in giving contracts
25:23now? Because guys through that or through NIL have already established like, okay, that
25:28they can keep their head about them when they've got a big wad of cash in their pocket?
25:32Well, it's interesting. Obviously, what's going on in college football is sort of changed
25:37over the last two to three years. So some players are more equipped to handle the money
25:40than others. But it works both ways, Seth. Even if you're getting paid in college, then
25:46you might think, well, everything that took place in college is going to happen here in
25:49the NFL. I would just say, players are motivated. Obviously, they want to be compensated for
25:56what they do. But they also want to, if we've done a good enough job on the front end of
26:03bringing the right type of people with the right mentality and mindset into this building,
26:07then you're going to feel comfortable giving that player what he's earned, going back to
26:12what we talked about a little bit earlier. So in the end, you still have to go out there
26:16and perform. And you have a certain comfort level, because in a lot of cases, you know,
26:22you're probably financially secure for a long period of time, which all of us, whatever
26:26we do when we invest a significant amount of time and energy, we want to be compensated
26:30accordingly. And you want to put yourself in a position where you have a certain level
26:35of security. And there's nothing wrong with that. But by the same token, in the end, we
26:39still have to go out there. We still have a job to do. We still have to play good football.
26:43And we want to win, because that's ultimately, you know, when the team wins, kind of everybody
26:49wins. So again, not sure if that exactly answers your question, but I would say we're
26:55not necessarily worried about, you know, when we reward a player with something that he's
27:01earned that he's necessarily going to change. I would say, let's go back and talk about
27:04Nico Collins. So I'd say Nico probably had his best off season last year. And, you know,
27:10he was coming off, coming on the heels of a contract extension. So I think it's really
27:14confirmation that, you know what, okay, we think we made the right decision and re-rewarded
27:20a player because he earned the opportunity with his performance, and it's not necessarily
27:24going to change his thought process or mindset. So yeah, if you find the right players, you
27:31find the right people with the right mentality and the right mindset, get them in the building,
27:37then keep them in the building, your team accordingly, then that's ultimately where
27:42we want to be.
27:43Texans GM Nick Casario joining us on Sports Radio 610. You're listening to KLT and KLTHD2,
27:50an Odyssey, Houston, an Odyssey sports station. Nick, the CJ Gardner Johnson deal, how did
27:56that come about? And in general with these deals, you've done three of these now where
28:01it looks like a team may be getting rid of a guy, but it turns into a trade. Joe Mixon
28:05last year and Christian Kirk and CJ Gardner Johnson, obviously this year. Can you speak
28:09to that specific deal and just in general, that kind of niche in the market that you've
28:14been able to bring in good players through?
28:16Yeah, I think teams that know how we operate know that we'll basically listen. And people
28:25in our position, in my position, you're always having conversation, you're always talking
28:29to the equivalent on the other team, not just during free agency, but all throughout the
28:33year. Hey, what's going on? Hey, anything going on? Any players that potentially we
28:38should look at? Anything? Are you looking for anything? So there's a healthy dialogue
28:42going back and forth. I would say specific to CJ, I'd say Howie and I have a really good
28:48relationship. We've done a lot of deals together. So when those conversations take place, they
28:55honestly really don't take too long. But it's a relationship business in the end, and we're
29:01not afraid to talk to anybody. So even the situation going back to Kirk, so James and
29:07I didn't really know each other, haven't worked together, but we're pretty open-minded
29:11here. We'll work with anybody. We'll kind of get straight to the point, hey, and just
29:16try to have some open dialogue. And that's part of the chair in which I sit, is you want
29:22to be open. And what's the worst thing that somebody can say? It's no. Okay, no problem.
29:29Then you move on to the next thing. So you never take it personally, but Howie and I
29:33have always had a lot of good discussions, a lot of good dialogue. We're not afraid to
29:36do deals, kind of go back and forth. And this one happened to work itself out the way
29:41it did. And we'll see how CJ's been a good player. He's had a positive impact on a couple
29:48of different programs. He's been really productive with his opportunities. So I mean, that's
29:53all we care about is when a player walks in the building is just come in here, do the
29:57things that D'Amico asks of you as a player, be a good teammate, and go out there and play
30:02football. So we think CJ can help us in the secondary, which is why we made the acquisition
30:08that we did. When you talk about the trade for Christian Kirk, trading within the division,
30:16when you've got a new GM in the division, how do you go about figuring out whether that guy's
30:20going to do business with you or not? Does somebody usually say it explicitly? Or is it a
30:26matter of you might approach them a couple times, and they keep saying no, or don't even
30:30have a discussion with you, and you pick up on the signals? It feels like it could be awkward.
30:35Yeah, I would say you never make it personal. Let's even, you know, with Mike Borgonzi in
30:40Tennessee. So, you know, Mike and I have a good relationship. Mike and I have had multiple
30:45conversations when he was the Chiefs. And really on the front end of it, you know, whether or not
30:51this is just how I kind of operate, you know, I talked to Mike, hey, Mike, congratulations,
30:56you know, looking forward to working with you. You know, we're open. I would say that whole notion,
31:02Seth, of, okay, if you trade in the division, look, some of it is a little bit of a myth.
31:08So, I mean, you're either going to do business with people or you're not. And you can't be afraid
31:12of what the repercussions are, what the fan base might think, oh, you can't do that because it's
31:16going to have a negative effect. Everybody just has to run their team how they see fit and just
31:21make the decisions that they feel are in their best interest. And we're going to work with each
31:26other over the course of a number of years. So, maybe that person, okay, he's in Tennessee,
31:31then however many years down the road, maybe he is in the AFC West. So, if you didn't handle yourself,
31:37you know, with professionalism and courtesy and respect, like that travels with you. So,
31:42it's no different than when you're dealing with agents. So, this is why, this is from a personal
31:47standpoint, I try not to make anything personal or make it contentious because it's not worth it.
31:53Like, we're pretty, I'm a pretty straight shooter, very matter of fact, kind of get to the point.
31:58I think people understand that about me, right, wrong or indifferent. So, we're not opposed to
32:02doing anything that we feel is going to help the Houston Texans because that's ultimately the
32:06fiduciary responsibility that we have, that I have to D'Amico and to the McNair family is to do what
32:12I think is in the best interest of the Houston Texans, not what's in the best interest of me
32:16personally. So, when it comes to doing trades, we'll trade with anybody. Now, are there some
32:21people that take the opposite approach that we're not going to trade with you because you're in
32:25their division? Yeah, that's their personal preference or personal choice. I can't control
32:29how somebody else thinks. All we can do is just try to make the decisions that are best
32:33for the Houston Texans and we'll work with anybody. Like, we're not, you're never going to, well,
32:39okay, there's an off-limit or list of agents or list of teams. Quite frankly, I think that's
32:44pretty parochial narrow-minded to do business that way. So, as long as we're in a position,
32:49you know, that we're in, that I'm in, then, you know, we'll be open-minded and do business and
32:54do what's best for the, always what's best for the Texans first and foremost.
32:59Oh, okay. So, I got to ask you about the tush push. I'm not going to ask you directly about,
33:04you know, whether it should or should not be. No, I'm happy to talk about it. I'm not going to,
33:07look, I said something in front of the whole league as well, so nobody probably wanted to
33:11hear from me on it, but. Well, there's, there was one, there was one dynamic of it that I know
33:15that you're a little bit more privy to that was intriguing to me was the fact that one of the
33:20two teams that's the best in the league at it, or at least their version of it is the Buffalo Bills,
33:25and yet Sean McDermott was one of the guys that was against the tush push. Is that, was that a
33:30surprise to you or that he was against it? I'm not going to comment about Sean. I would just say
33:36when you look at the play in and of itself, and in the end, it's a version of a quarterback sneak,
33:42and the sneaks go back to a number of years from how Brady runs it to how Josh Allen runs it to
33:47how Philadelphia runs it, and D'Amico and I have both commented publicly, so this isn't anything
33:52like groundbreaking information here, but you shouldn't penalize a team for a good execution,
33:59and it's not like all of a sudden like Hurts just dropped out of the sky and is playing
34:04quarterback. So the guy's been playing quarterback for four years. He's got over 4,000 snaps, 600
34:10rushes. I don't know how many times they've run the sneak, so now all of a sudden like we have
34:15an issue with the play. So again, everybody, more than anything, what we should be doing is tip your
34:25hat to Stout and Nick for good execution. I mean Jalen squats 6,000 pounds, so he's got good lower
34:31body strength, and when you actually look at the play, and I haven't done this, maybe we can have
34:35somebody out there in the Twitter sphere look at this, but the number of times where the player,
34:41whether it's in proximity or close to the quarterback, is actually pushed to create
34:46additional yardage, I mean it probably doesn't happen on every play because by the time
34:50the quarterback takes a snap and he's moving forward, it's more about what's going
34:54on on the offensive line. So everybody has a different interpretation, but let's just
34:59go watch the play. Whatever happens moving forward, ultimately it's out of our
35:04control. I mean it's something I think the owners and the competition committee will vote on, but
35:10we're going to penalize players in the NBA for the Euro step? We're going to
35:15make that illegal even though? So every situation, look, if you find something that works,
35:21okay, sometimes you just have to tip your hat to good execution and to talk about health and
35:27safety on something where there's A, no data, that actually try to create that,
35:32and that's the rationale behind it. I think you've got to be careful about that. So again,
35:36I've probably already said too much. I'll probably get fined for some of these comments,
35:39but that's just the way it is. Everybody in Houston will be happy about it.
35:43Yeah, you're basically saying the league should keep operating the way it's operating. They're
35:46not going to fine you for that. The part with McDermott that was interesting to me was that
35:50he cites the safety concerns, but there's not data that backs up that it's a dangerous play.
35:57The only thought I had about that part of it yet is that I guess I could see as a coach looking at
36:06it, and if you think about a rugby scrum, the rugby scrum is safe if it's done the way it's
36:12supposed to be done, but it's also got potential for a lot of spinal injuries. So when there are
36:17injuries in a rugby scrum, they're pretty severe injuries, and I wonder if at least part of it is
36:22people just thinking, all right, this looks like a train wreck about to happen, and maybe the data
36:27isn't there yet because there's not that many, but you also just don't want to invite the first
36:33couple injuries that are notable are drastic or severe injuries. Seth, you're the rugby expert.
36:39I'm not, so I'm not really familiar with the nuances of rugby, but again, I would just say
36:44this is something that Jaylen's been playing quarterback for four years, so I guess the four
36:49years prior, that thought process wasn't an issue. So again, health and safety of the
36:56players in our league is of the utmost importance. Nobody's going to argue with that, so I just think
37:00you always just have to look at the information, take the data, and then just try to
37:05make good decisions. So whatever the league decides, they're going to decide, but I mean, it's
37:11an interesting conversation, interesting topic. I would just say when you go back and look at
37:15even how Brady, like Brady converted, I don't know, 90% of the quarterback's sneaks over the
37:19course of time. Well, yeah, well, there are a number of times where, I mean, he was exposed.
37:25I mean, there was nobody on the center, and then he moved forward, so theoretically, like, he was
37:30more exposed and potentially more of a safety risk than, you know, some of these other plays. I mean,
37:35you go back and look at whether it was a divisional round or whenever it was when he
37:40reached the ball over the goal line on a sneak and fourth and one, and he ends up perpendicular
37:45to the ground, and then Lewis, you know, smacks him in midair and, you know, he smashes his head
37:51right on the ground. So, I mean, is that not a safety risk? So again, I think we just have to be
37:55careful of jumping to conclusions. Ultimately, do what's in the best interest of the players,
38:00absolutely, but, you know, I think we just got to continue to evaluate the actual play, and,
38:07you know, I'd say there's definitely a split camp on it, but, you know, I think you got to
38:10be careful about just making, you know, extrapolations based on, you know, what you
38:15think could happen. You know, nobody wants anything catastrophic to happen, to your point, that's for
38:20sure, but, you know, we'll see how it goes here moving forward. Nick Casario, Texans GM, joining
38:24us. I want to make sure we get some draft talking before we cut you loose. What's that? The draft
38:29is coming up. It's in three weeks, and you're going to go find us some more good players,
38:33just like you did last year. Four picks in the top 89. How are you feeling about the way this
38:38draft is unfolding relative to the amount of draft capital you have as compared to the needs that you
38:45have right now on the team? Yeah, there's always opportunities, so top to bottom, so there's been
38:51years where we didn't have a first or second round pick, years we didn't have a first round pick, so
38:56what we try to do is try to maximize our opportunities, try to understand a board as
38:59much as possible, top to bottom, you know, and then across as well at the various touch points
39:05and the various grade points, so our grading system may be a little bit different than some
39:10other grading system, but I think our job between now and the end of April is to understand and know
39:15as much about each player as possible. The coaches have evaluated a number of players, so
39:24we're going to meet next week and kind of sit with the, we've kind of done it kind of in a one-off
39:28situation, but sit with the staff, kind of get their evaluation of the players, how they see the
39:32player, how they see the fit, how they see the role, so I would say the only thing that we
39:37quote-unquote need to do is draft good football players with the right mindset and the right
39:42mentality regardless of the position that we play, so that's where our focus is. It's not, that's how
39:48we've approached it here the last four years, that's how we've approached the last two years
39:52specifically with with D'Amico and I, and that's not going to change this year, so we're not going
39:56to all of a sudden do something different this year than we've done previous years, so no position
40:01is going to be off limits. Draft good football players, look at the grade, follow our board,
40:08follow our process, and just get them in the building however we see fit. Do you, I mean
40:13obviously I get all that, obviously quarterback is a little bit of a different scenario. You've got CJ,
40:18the hope is he's your quarterback for a long, long time. Is your evaluation process and the amount of
40:23time you invest in that the same in a year where, for a team that already has a quarterback as it
40:28would be in a year like two years ago when you were looking for a quarterback? Maybe just,
40:31if for no other reason, the intel that you have on that player moving forward?
40:36Specific, just saying Sean, just drafting a quarterback or talking about a quarterback?
40:39Just, yeah, evaluate, evaluate how much time you invest in evaluating quarterbacks, yeah.
40:45You're still going to evaluate them because at some point, you know, and again we're in a different
40:49situation, right? I mean we hope CJ is a quarterback here for like, you know, 10, 15 years,
40:54whatever it is. So you're probably looking at, okay, the players behind them, right? Back and you
41:01get a developmental player in a program. So again, but you're still going to evaluate in its entirety,
41:08the entire, so we're going to know that position top to bottom as well. So understanding that
41:12there's going to be players that aren't going to be relevant. So I would say with the first, call it
41:17three or four picks, other than quarterback, like any position is probably on the table,
41:22or it is on the table. So quarterback is kind of its own entity, but you just don't askew
41:26your evaluation and say, well, we're not going to look at that position. You still want to
41:29understand it. Who are the players? All right, they're going to fall in this particular spot
41:34or situation. Okay, this handful or however many, okay, they're probably non-factors,
41:39but this cohort over here, they may have some relevance. So you're not going to not evaluate
41:44a position just because you have one of the best quarterbacks or one of the best players at that
41:48position. I would say quarterback is kind of unique. You know, once you have a player that
41:53you feel good about for a long period of time, okay, like that's a good thing, but you're still
42:00going to go through your process and just understand all the positions across the board.
42:05Nick Casario, Texans GM joining us here on Sports Radio 610. All right, Sina or Cody, Nick?
42:12Oh, man. I'm going to go with Cody. Okay, I'm going to go with Cody. I think Sina's done a
42:18nice job of pulling off this heel turn. So we'll see how long it lasts. So I'm going to go with
42:24Cody. In the end, it's up to Triple H. So whatever the hell he decides, it's probably what's going to
42:27happen. You can text him now. He's your close personal friend. If you want to book Wrestlemania,
42:32you can at least help book Wrestlemania. I don't think he needs any input from me,
42:37so I think he's got it all figured out. I'm only going to muck up the process.
42:42Are you going to watch?
42:42I'm going to go with Cody.
42:43You're going to go with Cody?
42:45I'm going to go with Cody. Am I going to watch? We'll see. I'm sure I'll see some tidbits. I'll
42:51probably watch some Rockets play off basketball before Wrestlemania, but that's okay.
42:57Hey, real quick on the Rockets, because you're obviously into all the sports teams around here.
43:02I was thinking this last night, and I've thought this a lot with the Rockets,
43:07I feel like Emay Odoka and D'Amico Ryans have a lot of kindred spirit qualities. The Rockets feel
43:12like a very swarmy basketball team to me. I would not want to mess with either one of them. So
43:19Emay's done a great job, and he did a great job in Boston. Emay's a really good coach.
43:23He's had a positive impact on the Rockets and the organization. Him and Rafael have done a
43:27really good job putting a really good team together, a number of good young players.
43:31They've played well this year to win 50 games in the NBA. I mean, that says a lot. So
43:36they put themselves in a pretty good position. The West kind of looks like it's pretty open this year,
43:40other than OKC. I mean, they clearly look like they're one of the best teams in the league.
43:44But they've positioned themselves really well. I'm sure the city's excited, as they should be.
43:50But, you know, great opportunity to watch some postseason basketball. I would say
43:54there is definitely a tangible difference in postseason basketball when you're watching
43:58everybody just kind of get through the regular season. But then when you get to the postseason,
44:02there's certainly an elevation in the play. But credit to them. It would be a lot of fun
44:06to watch them play and continue to make a push here. But they've done a really good job.
44:14He's a damn good coach. He's a really good coach.
44:17OK, Nick, I'm going to give you a hypothetical that I think is not going to happen,
44:21so you can answer freely. OK, this is a draft question, but it's not going to happen. OK,
44:27so don't feel like you have to be careful and not show your hand or anything.
44:30Why don't you just talk about this on your YouTube channel?
44:33Well, everybody should subscribe, and I know you watch all the time. So
44:38let's say Travis Hunter slides to 25 and you don't trade. You're not trading any,
44:43or you're just there at 25 and you decide to draft Travis Hunter.
44:47What role does he play his rookie year?
44:50I'm happy to talk about Hunter as a player. He's a very uniquely skilled athlete. I would say he
44:56looks like his best position is going to be corner. But I think if you ask 32 different teams,
45:02they might have a different opinion. But what he's done is, I mean, even going back to Charles
45:08Woodson, Woodson played on both sides of the ball, but not the volume with which Travis has played.
45:15But talk about, here's a player who essentially nobody was talking about probably two or three
45:21years ago because he was at Jackson State, and Coach Bryant did a great job of getting him there.
45:27What he did this year, I mean, be hard-pressed to find another player probably in the near future
45:34that can duplicate what he's done. But I would say he looks like he's a better corner than he is a
45:39receiver. Not that he can't play receiver, but I mean, I would say it looks like corner. I mean,
45:43the way he plays the ball, attracts the ball, he's very unique. So I mean, there's a reason.
45:49Like whoever drafts him, if you were to be one of the team, if you drafted him,
45:54do you go into it kind of thinking, all right, we're going to start him on one side of the ball,
45:58and then we know that do different things with him, but we got to just, we got to nail one thing
46:03down first, and then maybe see how much more he can handle after that. You probably need to have
46:09a plan, say, look, we're going to start him here. And then as it goes, because again, even as a
46:14player, you know, that's hard when you're volleyballing back and forth. So you got to
46:19probably start somewhere, have a foundation. And then as it evolves, I mean, we've seen players
46:24be used on both sides of the ball. I mean, going back to Vrabel in his role when he was playing on
46:28a goal line. So it happens. It hasn't happened a lot in the NFL with the volume with which
46:34Travis played last year at Colorado. So it'll be an interesting, but nonetheless, he's one of the
46:39best players in the draft. He's going to have a great career. Seems like he's a really good kid
46:46who's worked really hard to get to this point. So he deserves all the accolades that he's receiving.
46:52Okay. Real quick on this one, because we know we got to let you go. I really, really, really like
46:56Kenneth Grant, the defensive tackle from Michigan, but then I look at various anonymous scout quotes
47:01and I've got one guy saying he's better than Mason Graham. And then I've got another guy saying he's
47:05the eighth best defensive tackle in the draft. Which one of those guys is correct? The old
47:10anonymous quote season. This is where we are. We lean into this. Is it pretty much guaranteed
47:17to the guy who says he's the eighth best defensive tackle in the draft actually really wants to draft
47:21Kenneth Grant? This is a massive amount of BS season. That's what this is. So I would say they're
47:27both good. They're both good football players. And when you watch the Michigan defense, you're not
47:32just watching one player. They play next to each other. So you can watch them during the course of
47:37the game. They're both really good players. They both do well. They have some areas that they can
47:43certainly improve, but they're both good football players. And you know, they're going to probably
47:48have a positive impact on whichever teams drafts them next season. All right, Nick, I'm changing my
47:53mock. Yeah. Yeah. The mockery, the old PMP mockery just changed based on Graham drops to 25. That's
47:59right. That's right. How many more hypotheticals we're going to get into? Yeah. Yeah. Nick,
48:05you're willing to trolley is headed towards the station. You're willing to talk about other sports
48:11has texts like this. Ask Nick if he's willing to help get a hockey team in Houston. No, I'm not
48:15going to ask him that. All right. I would support that. I know you would. Yeah, but I do, but you,
48:18you got to get involved in the ownership group. Yeah. Let me focus on football. There you go.
48:22There you go. Nick, we always appreciate how generous you are with your time. Appreciate
48:27all the insight and go get them at the draft in a few weeks. Thanks fellas. Always good to
48:32visit with you too. Appreciate it. Nick Casario, executive vice president and GM joining us on the
48:37show.