With Richard Rajkumar
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00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Solomon's Bespoke.
00:05Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:14So welcome here to another conversation of manhood.
00:18Today we're discussing are we men or are we mice?
00:21And to do a deeper dive into that is simply men are struggling.
00:26Are we inherently leaders? Are we fathers? Are we breadwinners?
00:34There's so many things that we're simply thrusted into and how are we coping?
00:39And so the definition there of are we men or are we mice might be a bit of a harsh one,
00:44but that's what we're here to discuss here today and to ventilate, get granular and have a full discussion on that.
00:49So to my right, Johanse IUDK, Behaviour Change Consultant.
00:54To his right, Chromatix, also known as Matix.
00:59And to his right, Johanse.
01:02To his right, Johanse.
01:03Johanse.
01:04Oh, boy, like, you know.
01:05He's a mice.
01:06He's a mice.
01:07Of Nile.
01:08He ain't like a mice right there.
01:09Hear this fella, he is a mice.
01:11We know who went to school in August.
01:13Exactly.
01:14Trinidadian, right?
01:15You hear it in Trinidad.
01:16You're getting like a mice.
01:18Right?
01:18So guys, I know everybody who's listening on for educational purposes, it's a mouse.
01:23Yes?
01:24So, Nile McNish, the one and only provocateur, Vibes God.
01:31Let's get straight into it, guys.
01:33You know, are you a man or are you a mouse?
01:35Or in your auntie's vernacular and dictionary, mice.
01:38Yeah?
01:38So, you know, the reason we put it into that context and in terms of as a topic is a lot of men are out there struggling for many, many reasons and being thrust into environments as a man and what we understand as a man or what society puts on them as a man.
01:59And how are we coping with that?
02:03So, they always say, you know, anyone can be a father.
02:06It takes a real man to be a dad.
02:08Where men are struggling with being that father figure, being that dad, taking care or not being able to take care, thrust into leadership roles, being a breadwinner in the family when you're probably not making enough bread, but you have to be seen as, well, you are the breadwinner.
02:26Make it happen.
02:27And there are all sorts of other roles that we see men having to play.
02:32And we're human.
02:34How are we coping?
02:35And, therefore, you always hear that thrown around, like, are you a man or are you a mouse?
02:41I would firstly say is that the world has changed and the world is constantly changing.
02:49So, therefore, the role of a man, therefore, has to change.
02:52And I think that's a lot of the issue in terms of adapting to the newness of the world.
02:57That I would say women, they have evolved, their role has evolved, things have changed.
03:03So they, I don't know if it's perfect, but they have more adaptation to the world than us.
03:09Because society in general, no matter what society it is, often asks men to remain the same.
03:16This is what you always do. We want you to do the same thing.
03:19But if the world changed, and I'll give an example, is that let's say in terms of employment,
03:26at least back in my father and my grandfather days, you'd usually go in a company, you're almost shorter.
03:32Once you get a job in that company, you work in that company for 25, 30 years.
03:36So let's just say in your mind, you have a steady stream of income.
03:39So you could plan with that, right?
03:41There were less business owners, less entrepreneurs, less in terms of that field.
03:45So to plan for your family to get a house, of course, with prices, prices, of course, way different than it is now.
03:53The standard of living, especially in Chinat, changed a lot.
03:57You could afford a lot of the standard things.
04:00So it was easier, at least talking to my father and hearing things about my grandfather,
04:05to get a house, a car, and support your family.
04:09As you said, just to interject there for a footnote, I was actually reading the papers,
04:14and it was circulating that 50 years ago, you know what the cost of a house was in Diamondville?
04:21No.
04:22$7,900.
04:24And $8,100 if you wanted a three-bedroom.
04:27But we ought to put it in context.
04:28I was like, how much was 79?
04:30How much is that in today's currency?
04:31No, but I'm just saying, 50 years ago.
04:34Well, I don't have the exact numbers, but the standard of living was still low.
04:39You could have had less, even in the conclusion, it was way more affordable.
04:44But I don't want us to make the mistake to think that back in the day, it was just easier to be a man.
04:50No, nobody's saying that.
04:51I'm not saying that at all.
04:52But it was easier, easier, easier, not easy, but more accessible to get the, as a man, to get the standard things to support your family.
05:02I think maybe back in the day, the definition or the lines of what a man was supposed to be might have been more clear-cut and defined.
05:11I think the struggle today with the topic being if we are men or we are mice, I think what leads to a lot of stress and anxiety in this time that we live in as men is we have to be both.
05:25And the struggle is when to be both, finding the balance at what times, you know what I mean?
05:30Especially, and I hate this term, toxic masculinity.
05:33I hate it with a passion.
05:35But it's thrown around to almost as a second guessing, are we being that?
05:39And I think that's where a lot of the struggle comes in.
05:42And just that anxiety of am I being too much of a mouse?
05:48Am I being too overly masculine in what I'm doing?
05:51So you said there just now, you touched on it a bit about a definition of a man.
05:56What is your definition of a man?
05:59I think, but it's hard.
06:04It's hard to define.
06:05As I said, the roles have changed to a degree over the years.
06:08I think strength.
06:10I think strength in different aspects because a woman has to be very strong in certain aspects too.
06:15I think the strength of, strength and humility.
06:21And I guess that's the man and the mouse dilemma.
06:24It has a very broad stroke to it.
06:26But strength can be defined in many different ways.
06:29Strength can be knowing when to back off and be a more subtle, gentle,
06:34have that more subtle, gentle approach to things that you're facing or challenges that you're facing.
06:39So then, Matix, are we saying then that when we say are we men or are we mice,
06:43are we saying that by your definition and by, I think, by an understanding of society,
06:50that the man, the men part of it or the male part of it or the man part of it is the strength
06:55and the mouse part of it is the weaknesses that are us getting in touch with our gentler side.
07:01Some may call it feminine side, but I just like to say the gentler side of, or the humane or human side of us.
07:07And in certain areas or societies or depictions of a man that is seen as somehow weak.
07:13Maybe struggling it.
07:14Exactly.
07:14So people might say, all right, you might know when, you might feel you know the time to,
07:20as I say, be more on a gentler human side to things.
07:24But you might face a lot of criticism for that, for you're not being a man and you're not being strong.
07:29But the strength, the real strength is coming in when you ignore that kind of criticism.
07:33That is the real strength in even being that more humble person that having a gentler approach.
07:40Being our mouse.
07:41You know what I mean?
07:42It has strengthened me in the mouse.
07:43Oh, thanks.
07:44More strength than when people calling you a mouse.
07:47Being able to be stoic in the face or that, right?
07:50But you use the word weakness and I don't want to use weakness to describe being vulnerable.
07:56Agreed.
07:57Right?
07:57I just wanted to correct you on that.
07:59So, but for me, when you say man and mouse, right?
08:03Everything boils down to the decision.
08:04So back to when we were discussing, back in the day, you got to get a house for pocket change, right?
08:09We didn't say pocket change, but I'm being the provocateur guys, right?
08:17And my question, was it easier to be a man?
08:20And I think yes.
08:21Simply because they didn't have, remember, men made the world.
08:26We constructed the society that we live in.
08:29So, of course, at the time, as we go further back, we were living in a patriarchal structure that is now slowly unraveling, right?
08:40And most men are unsure as to what that would mean when it's fully unraveled.
08:46So that's where you see a lot of anxiety comes up.
08:49You see a lot of men now going over masculine to try to compensate for the fact that women don't care about, you know, about a lot of the things that men would have, men want to keep as control, right?
09:02Respect.
09:04We can label it as that.
09:05Respect for things that are manly traits, like, you know, words like, you can't use things like manly house anymore.
09:13You know, those things are now all issues.
09:15And it's like, it's not a matter of saying that we are domineering or it's not saying that there must be submission and all of these things.
09:22It's simply that it is just going on the basis of the breadwinner.
09:26It's going on the basis that I want to protect.
09:28I want to provide.
09:30These are things that you can't change.
09:31This is what men want to do for their partners, what men want to do for their family.
09:36Now, nobody's saying that we can't have equality in who works and what money comes into the house.
09:42But ultimately, there must be someone that is regarded as, hey, you are the man.
09:50I just want to touch really quickly on what we're saying just to bring it more into context.
09:53When a house is $7,900, 50 years ago, right, the salaries then would have been around $1,500, $2,000, whatever the case may be, a month, right?
10:07You're going to buy a house in three months is what you're saying?
10:09No, or less.
10:11But again, it's the economies of scale.
10:14And even if it was less, even if it was, say, $1,000 or less than that, look at the time frame it would have taken.
10:22More persons would have been open and willing and able to purchase a house.
10:27Now, when you look at that, and you're not getting anything.
10:31I mean, we're throwing down the word million, like it's $10.
10:34You know, everything is a million plus, $2,000, $3 million, but the salaries are still around $5,000, $6,000, $10,000.
10:43So you can't even fathom doing that.
10:45So what is now happening is you have more men living, still living at home.
10:51You know, more men who can't really do what would have been understood as providing a home, providing a this.
10:57What you're doing is you're providing a space in your mother's home or in your father's home.
11:03So then my question to you is that we're seeing society changing.
11:08Why is it that men are not adapting to the change?
11:12Because it's almost like it is changing just by the inflation.
11:16But as a man, you need to now start to say to yourself, okay, maybe I don't have to be a provider as a breadwinner.
11:23I could provide as just giving my time.
11:26How about, you know, there are other ways to provide.
11:28But your partner had to accept that.
11:30But your partner is not accepting that because who in it?
11:32The situation with going back to the affording a house or home, rather, is it's almost become where it needs two incomes in order to make it happen.
11:44Like if you're really looking at something that's comfortable for your family that you're starting off.
11:49So you're going to have to partner up.
11:52You know what I mean?
11:52I can't even see it being done on the strength of just one individual.
11:59I mean, of course, you're not doing it.
12:00But the kind of work that you would have to put in on any quality of life that you might have to have in order to afford that would probably be crazy.
12:09But going back to, you know, how to put it?
12:12The not being able to say the man of the house anymore.
12:18I mean, at the end of the day, I love a strong woman.
12:22Some men do like that.
12:23I grew up with one.
12:24And I've only been with strong women in my life.
12:27And I look at them as a challenge to challenge me as a better man.
12:31But I will tell you this.
12:33As strong as a woman is, they always need somebody to kill her approach.
12:37So I fight out.
12:39You know what I mean?
12:40Right?
12:42If the only thing I do in any house is kill her approach.
12:46I is the man of the house.
12:48Thank you very much.
12:49Have you, Matix, you want to say that to the camera?
12:56I like that.
12:57I like that because that means then there are still some, I mean, we don't have women who could kill cockroaches and things.
13:05We do in general.
13:06We do in general, right?
13:06So that means there are fundamental things that men are still useful for and women are useful for.
13:14And that's an important thing because even though the rules are changing,
13:17if you look at a lot of the research, it is that essentially it still have man things and it still have woman things.
13:25Right.
13:26Right?
13:26And even though, let's say, in a household, a woman making more money or she's the breadwinner,
13:32there's still someone who, well, I want to be the mother.
13:35You know, yes, I work in my care, but I still want to be a mother.
13:38I still want to be able to sit down home with my baby and somebody take care of me at some time.
13:44So there are still fundamental things between men and women.
13:48And I think it's a matter of time sometimes.
13:52And for men, nowadays, I think, and you're asking, why don't men adapt?
13:57One way I think for men to adapt now is to maintain their composure.
14:05Let me tell you what I mean by that.
14:06Maintaining your composure.
14:08If you know you are a man that want X, Y, Z, whatever that X, Y, Z is in your life,
14:14whether it involves a woman, a family, or you alone in your career,
14:17then you have to stay and stand by that because you will get the pressure of society.
14:22Well, I ain't got a grandchild yet.
14:25When I will get a grandchild?
14:26You ain't with nobody yet.
14:28Right?
14:28We together so long.
14:30Why you ain't marry me yet?
14:31You have to stay by whatever is your standard because if you bow and, let's say, become a mice, right?
14:40A mice, right?
14:42I realize that.
14:43You're using terms like bow and all kinds of things.
14:44That means something totally different in Jamaica.
14:46If you become a mouse, right, then you will live an unhappy life and you may not live that fulfilled life you want.
14:55And then you may not be the man of yours because that means you bow to something.
14:59I want to just, based on something the three of you said, because I know we need to go to a break,
15:05but you'd ask the question about adapting.
15:08Now, I am sure if a house, say, for example, is a million dollars, right,
15:13and you need to be earning $20,000 to $30,000 a month, right,
15:17there are many people who love to adapt to that.
15:19But the fact is, can you get those jobs?
15:22The jobs that are out there are not pushing for you to make that type of salary.
15:26So it's not a simple case of saying adapt to that because people, men,
15:30if men had the opportunity, it's not out of laziness.
15:33They want to put in the work and not have to have a two-income household.
15:37Now, we're using the word two-income household as if to say that everybody's okay with that.
15:42But what happens is, and you see it happening, whether women and men like to admit it or not,
15:46because of what's innate in us.
15:48So, nurturers, and, you know, we always talk about the hunters, hunter side of things.
15:54So when you now say, okay, let's have a two-income household,
15:57even though the woman is doing what is necessary to say, okay, well, it's a two-income household,
16:02innately, there are probably parts of her that are now looking at you,
16:07even consciously or subconsciously, as less than a man as a result of it,
16:11because she can't put her money away to save or do something that she might want to do with it,
16:15whether it be going to the spa, whether it be do something more for the kids, go on holiday,
16:19whatever the case may be.
16:21She's now contributing to the breadwinner.
16:24And what happens is organically, if you look into that word that you keep mentioning,
16:28which is the phraseology, toxic masculinity,
16:30that brings about that masculine energy out in a female,
16:34because subconsciously, she's now feeling that she now has to provide.
16:38She now has to protect, in the case of having children, to step up to the game,
16:42because you are not seemingly stepping up in the full potential that she may require.
16:50So I want us to ponder that.
16:53Again, this is not us speaking on behalf of all men.
16:57This is a few men speaking to all men and women, and it is a discussion.
17:02Don't box me and cancel me and all the rest of it.
17:05We need to take a short break.
17:07We're talking about, are we men or are we mice?
17:10Mouse, mice, got into your hands, eh?
17:13And the struggles that men are going through.
17:15We'll be back shortly.
17:26Welcome back.
17:27You're watching Manhood.
17:28The topic today is men or mice?
17:32Are we men or are we mice?
17:34Or do we know the times to be either, right?
17:36But you mentioned something before the break, Robert, that I wanted to get to,
17:39which is, you know, in a dual income household,
17:45that a woman may potentially, you know, but we generalize in here, right,
17:49may potentially look at the man as less than.
17:53Whether consciously or subconsciously.
17:54Fair enough.
17:55I firmly believe that the same way I asked the question of men adapting,
18:00that is a woman who isn't adapting either to what is happening in today's society.
18:04If it is that's the way she feels, right?
18:06When you mentioned, she said, a woman not able to save for herself.
18:10I'm like, save for herself?
18:13We are a partner.
18:14We are a team.
18:15There's no saving for you.
18:17It's saving for us.
18:18So, when I go into a space like, you know, my partner that I'm looking for,
18:24she don't necessarily need to be making the same amount of money as me.
18:28If it is that we have a goal and to reach to this goal quicker,
18:32both of us working actually will, you know, make that happen.
18:36Then, as my teammate, as my partner, we are doing this.
18:40If we reach to the goal and I realize, hey, you could take a step back now,
18:45if you would, like, put up your feet, relax, blah, blah,
18:48then that is the situation for that particular moment.
18:51If it is that I choose to be like, here we've seen,
18:53I go into some mental crisis right now, baby,
18:56I need you to take the full brunt of the financial weight
19:00while I am able to do whatever I want to do,
19:04the partner I'm looking for should be able to provide that for me.
19:08So, not to only keep it in relationships, right?
19:12I firmly believe that the mice or the mouse in men
19:16is really a conscious decision, and we spoke about this many times,
19:21to reflect internally, make conscious decisions
19:26rather than moving instinctually.
19:28And that's what happens often, and we just react to what are wrongness.
19:32So, point well taken.
19:37And I know Johansi, you know, that's his role, to disagree.
19:39And that's what we're here for, you know, but we disagree and have conflict
19:42all amicably, as men.
19:44And you mentioned about, so a lot of that denial would come down to
19:48the partner that you pick, right?
19:50Making sure you pick the right partner.
19:52But on a holistic environment, we're not just talking about people in relationships.
20:00We're talking about society.
20:01So, society, how they would look on to a person who, you know,
20:06your partner might be the right partner for you.
20:08And I know a lot of times, Mattyx, we talk about really being sure of yourself as a man.
20:13And part of that is your own security and not being vulnerable
20:17into the insecurities of other people.
20:19But it's human nature.
20:22What is human nature?
20:23Well, it's human nature to give a s*** about sometimes what other people think.
20:27Unless you're going into the bush and being, you know, in solitary.
20:34A hermit.
20:35Yeah, a hermit, you know, or a recluse.
20:38Then that's different.
20:39You must in some way, shape, or form.
20:41Even people who I always say, hey, say, I don't give a crap.
20:44I'm doing what I do.
20:45I'm doing me.
20:46They still give a crap.
20:48Because in doing that, they still want some sort of response.
20:50And therefore, on a societal basis, in a larger scale,
20:56which we're here to talk about manhood, right?
20:59When we talk about one, a mouse, we're not talking about it.
21:03In this case, it comes across what's been given to us in society
21:06as something that's a negative.
21:08But really and truly, it's not a negative,
21:10which is what we're here to discuss here today.
21:11And on top of that, your partner might be the right person,
21:16but outside your brethren, her sistrens, her parents,
21:21people at work, all these other people might be saying,
21:23hey, that man's a loser.
21:26And that's what I'm saying.
21:27So the struggle, it comes back down to the struggle is real.
21:31And I know you want to make your point,
21:32so therefore jump in at any point.
21:34But we're not only talking about, I just wanted to...
21:36Relationship.
21:37But not only relationship, but us as leaders.
21:39We haven't talked about us as fathers.
21:42All these different areas that as men, we are struggling.
21:45Right.
21:46So I'll comment back in Nyle, you're saying that
21:49we have to adapt and the tendency to just react, right?
21:55I think is really being a man is the tendency to stay who you are,
22:02is to maintain your frame.
22:04Okay.
22:04Right?
22:05And as I was saying, and to adapt could mean in this day and age,
22:09to do things later.
22:10Because if you're making less money than before,
22:12maybe you should get married later.
22:14Instead of trying to do the same thing our grandfather and great-grandfathers did.
22:19Right?
22:19So that's one different.
22:20That's one way to adapt, what you're saying, Robert.
22:22Because you don't have to be in a two income.
22:26You could wait a little longer.
22:28Okay.
22:28And if you wait a little longer, most times you might establish yourself
22:30and actually start making a little more money at that time too.
22:33That's one.
22:34Two is, what you are saying there in terms of his human nature to give a s***, right?
22:41Are saying yes or no?
22:43From my understanding of my, the older men in my family and even older men in other families,
22:49most of them didn't really give a s***.
22:52Most of them, they are who they are and they didn't really care what nobody think.
22:56And I think maybe that is what we f***ing lost, right?
22:59I don't, I don't know.
23:01Just now, just now.
23:03We sometimes start to care too much.
23:05So that balance between the man and mouse, you're saying, we care a little bit too much now.
23:10Right?
23:11Go ahead.
23:13Oh.
23:14Here I am.
23:16Yeah, but I mean, I think, Robert, you're almost going to disagree with Johansson.
23:21But I think in this time that we're living in, in this social media time where everybody's doing it for the likes
23:27and for a public persona, not even somebody who is, has the aim to be a public or a famous person
23:37or an artist or a creative or somebody that's seen in the limelight.
23:41The average person now, the average man, is having these standards of what other people,
23:47not just thinking or saying about them, but what they're seeing and is the, am I hanging my hat to this fake standard
23:54that people are trying to portray now?
23:56So it's almost like the stress is even more.
23:58So the ability to give a s*** is even a little bit more difficult because we, we, we, using social media
24:05as such a influential thing in terms of the daily lives of, of, of people in general, man and woman.
24:10And I think a lot of men seeing, or the perception of what's being broadcast to us
24:19as we need to do this and we need to do that in order to look successful or be successful.
24:25You know what I mean?
24:25And I think Johansson is correct.
24:27We need to go back to really not giving a s***, but it is difficult.
24:30So I want to, I want to bring it back to freedom in that.
24:36There's freedom from the modern day anxiety levels that we face.
24:40Cause I think anxiety now in this day and age is higher than it has ever been.
24:46And I go get personal and tell her that I, somebody who suffer from it bad, bad,
24:49but there's freedom in not giving a s***.
24:54And sometimes we, it's almost like we have to force ourselves to ignore everything else
24:58and just trot on it, whatever it is, whether it is being a father or a breadwinner
25:02or your goals in life, you know what I mean?
25:05So I want to, I want to come, cause I want to talk a bit about Kobo Sweat.
25:08Cause as you said, you know, which is, which is Matic's new EP out there.
25:13It's a pretty good listen, you know, in terms of his, his life story.
25:18And, you know, ironically, it's giving a s*** because he talks about what's happening
25:22on the album.
25:24So I want to, I want to address when you say social media and all of these things are,
25:31we can have conversations on people giving a s***, but it might be the wrong s*** that
25:36they're giving towards the wrong things, but doesn't mean that, that in general,
25:41people don't want to give a s***.
25:42So like your, your father figures in your life.
25:45And when you say they don't give a s***, I don't think they don't give a s***.
25:49I think somewhere along the line, they don't give a s*** on what certain people think
25:53because that's not their community, but they would certainly give a s*** if they were
25:57amongst each other and people that they respect.
25:59What did that person think of them based on their attitude?
26:02Because it comes from, if anybody can look at me and say simply, I, I, I simply know,
26:10but what I'm saying to you is somebody just doesn't get up and say, I don't give a
26:13crap.
26:14Cause if you don't give a crap.
26:15It's not that you don't care about anything, you know, it's that, okay, I am, I can give
26:20you a direct example.
26:21He said, uncle of mine, a great uncle of mine said, he's a, he's the man, right?
26:28He not going and live in a house where he's not a man, right?
26:31So he make sure, he made sure that he owns the house before he got married, right?
26:36This is what he made sure and do.
26:38And he said, whatever, children, he have, he going to make sure and do it.
26:41I don't really, he said, the woman, they have to do X, Y, Z. And if she coming in my
26:45house, she has to do X, Y, Z because I doing X, Y, Z. And that was his, his frame.
26:49And he maintained that.
26:51And even he have, um, early stage dimensional and he's still maintaining that, even though
26:57you don't remember plenty of people still maintaining certain things.
27:00So, but, but, but even, even before we even go into that, right?
27:04I want to say that, you, you, you, you, go ahead.
27:09No.
27:10Right.
27:10So let's, let's move on.
27:11Right.
27:12So with regards to that.
27:12No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
27:17it did not because the, the woman didn't want to stay in his frame, but, but he maintained
27:23his frame and his next wife maintaining it now.
27:26If you understand what I'm saying?
27:27So he maintained his frame.
27:28He didn't fall.
27:30Well, okay.
27:31No, but I want to make a point on that.
27:33He didn't fall.
27:34He wasn't a mice, a mice, right?
27:37He didn't fall.
27:38He maintained his frame.
27:39Even if people didn't like it.
27:41Because people didn't like it.
27:43So again, people, you know, you, you look at these people in, in, in leadership roles
27:49and people have their own business and all that.
27:51And they, and you're even actors now.
27:52You see actors come on stage and say, we don't give a, I don't give a crap.
27:55I do.
27:56I do me, never let anybody tell you what to do.
27:58But you could say that when you're reaching out.
28:01I don't know why I'm doing this like a certain former president, right?
28:04But you could say that.
28:05But at the same time, you can do that when you're in a position to do so.
28:10Because I guarantee your grandfather and these people to earn that house and to get where he did.
28:15If he didn't give a all along his life, he would not have gotten any of those things.
28:19Because you must have, at some point now, if you, if you, if you, if you go in, when
28:25you're working, say customer service or something, you just simply go in through life.
28:28I don't give a what people think, right?
28:31How, how are you going to get, because other people are going to give a shit.
28:35I work in, let me say, let me say the lowest, the lowest job we can think.
28:38Let's say you work in the lowest level job.
28:40You have to not care what people think.
28:42I work in that job because I need the money and I will save or invest.
28:45So when you went to the interview, you didn't give a like, well, to get the lowest job.
28:49But, nah, I think you take it out of context, you know.
28:52No, let me put it in context, you know.
28:54My alternative subroquay is Mr. Don't Care, right?
28:57Right.
28:57As I say in a rhyme, do take it out of context when I say I don't care.
29:01I ain't vex, I'm just complex like Jean P.
29:03Right?
29:05Bars.
29:05Bars.
29:06I like it.
29:07It's not just one thing.
29:08And I think we're talking about not giving a shit on that caring is defining to your,
29:14knowing yourself and defining what is important to you.
29:19When you define, when you know to yourself what is important to you,
29:23then you can make clear definitions about what I care about and what I don't care about.
29:27So you still give a shit about something is what I'm saying to you.
29:30Not just outright, apathetic by yourself.
29:32Nobody said that.
29:33Nobody said it.
29:33It's you taking that away.
29:35It's, I mean, you have to make those clear, define those clear lines.
29:39And sometimes that will rub people the wrong way.
29:41And people will look and say that he, boy, he's a, he's very real standoffish or he's
29:46a man that's moved X by Y or whatever, you know, or he's a.
29:50Say it to us, say it.
29:52We are beeping all for that reason.
29:53But that's good.
29:54That's how excellence is maintained.
29:57Even, I would say, we have a local soccer artist, right?
30:01Who's very big in the world.
30:02And he wants his stage a certain way.
30:04You have to play the musicians, have to be a certain way.
30:07And if it's not, you will get cussed and you'll even be removed from it.
30:10Because that is excellent.
30:11That is my frame as a man, not a mice, right?
30:15That is my frame and that's how I want it.
30:17If I have my art teach, that's how I want it.
30:19If you're performing, you know how you want, want things for you.
30:23We as men, starting to fall.
30:25We, we know every man here, know what they want their household to look like.
30:29Every man here.
30:30Every man here, know what they want their car, their life, et cetera, to look like.
30:34But we fall into the pressures.
30:36And yes, I know it have more social media, things like that.
30:39We fall into the pressures of that.
30:40We fall into the pressures of society.
30:42So whether it is you being a leader, because even outside relationships, right?
30:46Every man, and we speak about this in other episodes.
30:48Every man have their purpose.
30:50You know how we want to shape Trinidad.
30:52You know how we want to shape the world.
30:53You know the influence and impact you want to make.
30:56But we lose that frame because you ain't have a child yet.
31:02Once you ain't getting married yet, or it's about time to do X, Y, Z.
31:07You're still working in that job, but you know your plan is to work in that job for five years
31:10because you know you're building the money.
31:12But you're still there.
31:13Why do you go and do things?
31:13And you're listening to people instead of maintaining your masculine frame.
31:18I would say that, right?
31:20So let me use like a real-life example because that's what I'm at draw.
31:24At a certain period in my career, and Rob, you talked about this.
31:29When you ask about Cobo Sweat, and you're asking,
31:32you give it to any of the stations in this building yet?
31:34I say no.
31:36I say I ain't really trying to go that route.
31:37At a certain point in my career, and I already know this, I decided to move out from traditional media,
31:44which is radio and television, and sell my product.
31:47At the time, CDs were since selling, right?
31:50On the streets of Trinidad and Tobago.
31:53Why?
31:53Because I believed in that person-to-person touch, right?
31:56And I always believed in the thought of going around.
32:00If there's somebody blocking my path to where I want to go,
32:05I'm going to just go around them and go straight to the people.
32:07No middlemen, right?
32:09I remember the first, or within the first week I was out there,
32:12now I remember I used to be part of a pretty popular group called Swat Rushers.
32:16And then when I hit the streets and I was selling my product,
32:20a man watched me and went,
32:22Nah, Dan, not you.
32:23That what you out there doing?
32:25But he couldn't see the long-term goal and long-term vision.
32:28Correct.
32:29From doing that, I have fans till this day.
32:32I remember going to Barbados and performing,
32:35and a man braced me.
32:35He's like, Dan, I buy your CD on Frederick Street.
32:39So the long-term goal and the long-term vision,
32:41but I could have taken that talk.
32:43And there were people that looked down on it,
32:46and looked down on people doing that to this day.
32:48I mean, granted, we did it in a different way.
32:50We were branded.
32:51We had IMP3 player where we could preview the music.
32:53So we were doing it in a different way,
32:55but it was still being looked down upon by a lot of people,
32:58but they couldn't see the bigger vision.
33:00Exactly.
33:00And that's going into the not giving enough up.
33:02And die, die, die, die, I'm shaking.
33:05Yeah, so right now all you're causing a lot of beeping to take place.
33:09So all you hear, beep, beep, beep.
33:09But before we go to the break,
33:13just really help us a better understanding
33:16for those who haven't heard the EPS at Kobo Sweat,
33:18because a lot of the conversation there
33:20are ingrained in some levels of struggle.
33:24It's your experiences.
33:25It's seeing other levels of struggle in people,
33:27but also singing about it
33:29and storytelling about the things that you've seen and heard.
33:32Yeah.
33:33I mean, I just wanted to get back to rapping, man.
33:36Amen.
33:37I just wanted to get back to rapping.
33:38Amen.
33:38I mean, a lot of people,
33:39I don't see a big difference between what I do
33:42and how I used to do in hip-hop
33:44and I do in Calypso now.
33:47I mean, shout out to Kenny Phillips.
33:49He's always saying,
33:49I is a rapper disguised as a Calypso.
33:51I'm walking around.
33:52I go take that from.
33:53Yeah.
33:53I mean, and I go just say,
33:54I is a rap so man,
33:55but yeah, Kobo Sweat was just,
34:00I wanted to get a project out there,
34:03back to me rapping,
34:04reminding people that,
34:05why is Duna really and truly?
34:08So this is like,
34:10in the true term of Kobo Sweat,
34:12meaning a short-lived experience,
34:14right?
34:15Right?
34:16That leaves you wanting more
34:17or you feel like you should have deserved more,
34:20right?
34:20It's that for the people
34:21in lead up to my album,
34:23Hammer and Chisel,
34:24which I've been working on
34:25for a very long time.
34:27So this EP is actually made up of songs
34:28that were supposed to be on Hammer and Chisel,
34:30coupled with a couple of freestyles.
34:34And going back to the conversation
34:35that we were having,
34:36in this day and age,
34:38like everybody will ask,
34:40it's on Apple Music,
34:41it's on Spotify yet?
34:42And I was saying,
34:43no, it's chromaticmusic.com.
34:46I'm going back to essentially
34:47what I used to do
34:48in the streets of Turner and Tobago,
34:49in the digital realm now,
34:51which is director-consumer,
34:54marketing.
34:55It's going to be more difficult,
34:56but it's going to be more rewarding.
34:59And Kobo Sweat is not even out a month now,
35:02and I've probably made more money off of it
35:04than I would have made in a year
35:05streaming it on those platforms.
35:06So this is,
35:08this is Matic's giving a s**t,
35:10but not giving a s**t about,
35:12at the same time.
35:12At the same time.
35:13You see, that's the dichotomy thing.
35:15That's the thing.
35:15What you give a s**t about,
35:17and what you don't.
35:17Yeah.
35:18You know what I mean?
35:18So yeah.
35:19So we're that one,
35:20but we give a s**t about time,
35:22so we're going to go to a break.
35:24This is Manhood.
35:25Yeah.
35:34Because I is the man,
35:36not all of them hating on.
35:37The same one the girl and them waiting on.
35:39I done pulled the new work,
35:40but in 2000 hours,
35:41don't give me no flowers
35:42when the fragrance gone.
35:43And it's back to these bars
35:44at the right time.
35:45Enough of them thought
35:45I moved to the sideline,
35:46but I thought it must have come
35:47from the left brain.
35:48Because clearly,
35:49they're not in the right mind.
35:50I done been in this game
35:51for a lifetime.
35:52I was rocking back to
35:53with me quite fine.
35:54With my wife in my house,
35:55sipping white wine.
35:55But like Trini Rap,
35:56they did a lifeline.
35:57So clear.
35:58Everything off on my plate.
35:59No, it's not off the debate.
36:01I am a Greek.
36:01I put all the things
36:02I done did in my past
36:03in the dirt.
36:03That's a grave mistake.
36:04And I pay the cost
36:05to do boss things.
36:06Still pulling the girl
36:07like a drawstring.
36:08While they're singing
36:09by one set of offting.
36:10I'm just stacking the bread
36:11for my offspring.
36:12So just give me my kick
36:13and my frosting.
36:13I do business
36:14whatever it cost in.
36:15Because the price
36:16of progress is high.
36:17Dice word out
36:18of King Austin.
36:19Still every year
36:20they want more raps.
36:21Running down me lines
36:21like a left back.
36:22It will hurt the heart
36:23like a chest trap.
36:24Just to hear
36:25that the best is back.
36:26I know they get love off.
36:27Say you get luck off.
36:28How you flex boring.
36:29Make it she not off.
36:29She what it's sort of.
36:30She has one off all of me.
36:32Back is fingernail.
36:33Pop off.
36:33I in the middle of the
36:34where the bands
36:35them playing.
36:35You have to stand still
36:36like the anthem playing.
36:37Because we set the trend.
36:38We don't follow man.
36:39You don't hold no weight.
36:40You's a hologram.
36:44That in itself
36:46is almost the theme
36:47of what we're here
36:48talking about.
36:49Exactly.
36:49You know
36:51lyrically put.
36:52You know
36:52not giving a s***.
36:53It's not a hologram.
36:55Right?
36:55And the hollowness
36:56and the emptiness.
36:58Sometimes
36:58us men
36:59end up with
37:00when we lose ourselves.
37:02When we bow
37:02to social media.
37:04When we bow
37:04to people.
37:05When we bow
37:05to terms like
37:06toxic masculinity.
37:07When we bow
37:08to all the boxes
37:10that they want
37:11to put us in.
37:13Now
37:13what I'm not saying
37:14is not to consider
37:15sometimes advice.
37:17I'm open to advice.
37:18But
37:19if you lose
37:20any man watching
37:21if you fundamentally
37:22lose yourself
37:23because of your parents
37:25because of religion
37:26because of society
37:28because of somebody
37:29getting your
37:30pecan or old talk
37:32because of
37:33your people pleasing
37:34if you fundamentally
37:35lose yourself
37:36then you end up
37:37being that mice.
37:38So the terminology
37:39happy wife
37:40happy life
37:40we should not
37:42adhere to that then.
37:44But you could have
37:45a happy wife
37:46and that it makes you happy
37:47by providing.
37:49Now I'm going to say
37:50depend on your stand.
37:51What is your stand?
37:52And why can't
37:53a woman
37:54condemn me saying
37:55happy husband
37:55happy life
37:56it mightn't rhyme
37:57but
37:58I got a happy home
37:59and that has many things
38:01to come with it.
38:04Yeah
38:04happy children
38:05It's your wife
38:07it's yourself
38:07so that could apply
38:09even if you're living
38:10by yourself.
38:12You know what I mean?
38:13And I think simplicity
38:14is key.
38:16I think we
38:16you know
38:17like I learned that
38:18like in life
38:19I think we put too much
38:20baggage on ourselves
38:22as men as well now.
38:24Yes to live up
38:24to previous definitions
38:27of what a man was
38:28new definitions
38:28of what a man
38:29and as I'll say
38:30Him definition
38:31who definition
38:32them definition
38:33You just had to know
38:34in your life
38:35what you want
38:35as I clear
38:36define it very clearly
38:38and not to say
38:39you're not going to be
38:40malleable in your approach
38:41but as long as
38:43going back to what I was saying
38:44you know the goal
38:46the long term
38:46and you might take
38:48you might have to go
38:49an alternative route
38:50to reach there
38:50but it'll definitely
38:51be more rewarding
38:52and more successful
38:54in building you
38:54as I am
38:55But Matix
38:56as you say there
38:57you see what you just said there
38:59if you know
39:00then you know
39:01but you see
39:01that's the way you have to be
39:02you have to know
39:03your purpose
39:04and you have to have
39:04the vision
39:05and you have to have
39:06the strength
39:07of mind
39:08whether
39:08through a community
39:10whether a friend
39:12whether innately
39:13you are just
39:14a strong person
39:15strong minded person
39:16you know what
39:16we say bad mind
39:17in certain ways
39:18not everybody has that
39:20and so
39:21if you have that
39:23then that's great
39:23and you can forge forward
39:24and you can ignore the noise
39:26you know
39:27you can separate the wheat
39:28from the chaff
39:28you can go through
39:29you can go through life
39:30with a
39:31you know
39:31focused
39:32but if you don't
39:33you sometimes need that community
39:35you can rally behind you
39:36and take you to the next level
39:38and tell you
39:39hey you know what
39:39don't worry
39:40I will get you over this hump
39:41because life is hills and troughs
39:43as we know
39:43it's yin and yang
39:44you're not always going to be there
39:46you're going to be in a depressed state
39:47and even on
39:48even with that vision
39:49even being focused
39:50along the way
39:51you're only human
39:52you know
39:53as I told someone the other day
39:54when they said
39:55you know
39:55aren't you afraid to fail
39:56I said
39:56brother
39:57failure is the only way to success
39:59but you have to be strong
40:01to know that
40:02this is where I want to go
40:03this is what I'm trying to achieve
40:05so therefore
40:06all the failures
40:07that are happening
40:07you can laugh it off
40:08because they're like
40:09hey that is just one
40:10if I have ten to go
40:11then I know that is one down
40:13I only have these others to achieve
40:14but most men are not really
40:16afraid of the failure
40:17you know
40:17they're afraid of
40:18having other people see
40:19that they fail
40:20the exposure to the failure
40:22that's what it is
40:23is it ridicule along the way
40:24and especially now
40:25with the advent of social media
40:27it is now magnified
40:28I always take comfort
40:30in a quote from Michael Jordan
40:32it's like
40:33I missed
40:34I missed a hundred percent
40:36of the shots I don't take
40:37so in life
40:39you had to take that shot
40:40otherwise you'll never know
40:41whether or not
40:42you could score or not
40:43you know
40:43being a man
40:47is really
40:49knowing what you want
40:51and sometimes you wonder
40:52how you know what you want
40:53right
40:53and a good part to start is
40:55and I can give anybody
40:56the exercise
40:57is try to go
40:59let me say three days
41:01without lying
41:03and also this is lying to yourself
41:06if I'm not only lying to people
41:08if you go three days
41:09and be honest with yourself
41:10about what you really want
41:11you'll start to find your purpose
41:13right
41:14now I'm not saying
41:16necessarily you're going out
41:16and you're telling people things
41:17you know
41:18you with yourself
41:19you know
41:19when you wake up
41:20let's say you go
41:21but you're not giving a shit
41:22tell them
41:22tell them
41:22some people
41:24not at that stage yet
41:25you wake up
41:27and you go into a job
41:28you don't like
41:28be honest with yourself
41:29what is I really want to do
41:31now you mightn't be doing it yet
41:32but you start with that
41:33how I really want my house
41:37how I really want this person
41:38best way to go about it
41:39and I wrote about it in a song
41:41is a process of elimination
41:43I think
41:44more
41:44looking at what you don't want to be
41:47will help you define
41:49what you wanted
41:50I don't want to be that person
41:52I don't want to do this
41:53I don't want to do that
41:54like
41:55I don't want to work for anybody
41:57ever again in my life
41:58I made that
41:59very clear
41:59and find the decision
42:00so it's like
42:01what do I have to do now
42:02you know
42:02I have to build my career
42:04in this direction
42:05so I think
42:06you know
42:06it's not
42:07I think just saying
42:08you need to know
42:09what your goal
42:10your focus is
42:11but I think sometimes
42:12a process of elimination
42:13has helped define
42:14yeah
42:14I like that
42:15I like that
42:17you know
42:17because I mean
42:17even in those
42:19moments
42:19as we talk about
42:20even leadership
42:21where you're thrust
42:22into certain positions
42:23that you might be ready for
42:25or you may take on
42:28because you like a challenge
42:29and then you're struggling
42:30during that
42:31that particular period
42:32because situations come up
42:34even though you might
42:34identify
42:35and you might accept something
42:37during that period
42:37you are now open
42:39to other things
42:39that are happening
42:40so for example
42:41I'm sure the president
42:42of the United States
42:43at the time of 9-11
42:44wasn't expecting that
42:45you know
42:46that to happen
42:46when it did
42:47and as a result
42:48you're now thrust
42:49into different levels
42:50of leadership
42:51and how you turn up
42:52and show up
42:52for those things
42:53can be very very challenging
42:55and I like that
42:57where you know
42:58I can
42:58and what has helped me
43:00in those situations
43:00is looking at
43:02what I don't want
43:03to be like
43:04so because
43:05we're very aware of that
43:06we're very aware
43:07of what we don't like
43:08and who we don't like
43:10and all the other things
43:10and I don't mean
43:12specifically a person
43:13I mean I like Niall
43:14but I don't like
43:15certain traits
43:16that he may have
43:17in certain things
43:17but I like him
43:18as a guy
43:19you know
43:20so therefore
43:22I can look at that
43:24sometimes
43:24because you know
43:25they always say
43:26a lot of times
43:26when you see something
43:27in someone
43:28it's something
43:29you might not like
43:29within yourself
43:30or you don't want
43:31to become
43:31right
43:32so
43:33you know
43:34I take that point
43:36but you answered
43:36you said you had
43:38a second or third point
43:39I don't remember
43:41he talked so long
43:41but I would like
43:42to just
43:43to the point
43:44I have played
43:44I have played
43:44I have played
43:45you see the guy
43:46this is somebody
43:47I don't want to be
43:48I don't want to be
43:50you know
43:52now I don't get
43:53the point I was trying
43:54to make
43:54but which is
43:55when you say
43:57you don't want
43:59to be like that person
43:59a lot of men
44:00what I've realized
44:01don't want those traits
44:02yeah
44:02but a lot of times
44:05those same traits
44:06that men say
44:06I don't want to be like
44:08right
44:08or rejecting
44:09or run away from
44:10is really
44:11the change
44:12within themselves
44:13that they actually need
44:14so sometimes
44:16they're watching
44:16like me
44:17I'm a little bit more
44:18sassy
44:19as the new coined
44:20term
44:21I don't like that
44:22nah
44:22I don't like that
44:23final X word now
44:24provocative
44:25I like that
44:26nah
44:27you want to be sassy
44:28I'm just saying
44:29anyway
44:29go ahead
44:30provocative
44:30of
44:31using modern day
44:32vernacular
44:34you know
44:34big up
44:35big up Seth Gaines
44:36right
44:36but using
44:37modern day
44:38vernacular
44:38I'm using the word
44:39sassy
44:39as in
44:40I'm more of a feminine
44:41I have more feminine
44:42energy
44:44within me
44:45as opposed to
44:46the typical
44:46alpha man
44:47right
44:48who's like
44:48I'm a man
44:49right
44:49so I'll say
44:51all I have to say
44:52is that
44:52now we know
44:58what I'm on
44:59some of those
45:00same alpha guys
45:01would look at me
45:02right
45:03and
45:03and
45:04say
45:04oh
45:05he
45:05he
45:05he
45:06well
45:06soft
45:07right
45:09I'm going to say
45:09something
45:10I think
45:10sorry
45:12my
45:12man
45:13like you
45:13in style
45:13right
45:14but
45:17I am in style
45:18right now
45:19you know
45:19why
45:19because a lot
45:20of women
45:20what I've
45:21realized
45:22looking for
45:23a more
45:24sensitive
45:26guy
45:27to their
45:28issues
45:29and plights
45:29right
45:30and the men
45:31who are not
45:32adapting
45:32again
45:33society
45:33is changing
45:34right
45:34so a lot
45:35of men
45:36who are not
45:36adapting
45:37to that
45:37change
45:37they will
45:38look at me
45:39and say
45:39whatever they
45:41want to say
45:41but the point
45:41I'm trying to
45:42make is
45:42what they're
45:45seeing
45:45is the
45:46change
45:46that they're
45:47supposed to
45:47have within
45:48themselves
45:48and
45:49and
45:50that
45:50uncomfortable
45:51feeling
45:52is really
45:53just a
45:53resistance
45:54to what
45:54should really
45:55happen
45:55or maybe
45:56even things
45:56that have
45:56been being
45:57told by
45:57the girls
45:57your girlfriend
45:58is really
45:59letting you
45:59know
45:59for real
46:00the actual
46:01issues
46:02with you
46:02you know
46:03and most
46:03people
46:04or at least
46:04most fellas
46:05that I've
46:05seen
46:05is be like
46:06she talking
46:07or my girl
46:08always nagging
46:09me Jen
46:09why my girl
46:10like this
46:10but really
46:11and truly
46:11she may not
46:12have the best
46:13way to
46:13give you
46:14the information
46:15or she may
46:16not be the
46:16vessel for
46:17the points
46:18where you
46:18don't read
46:19any signs
46:19but you
46:19don't read
46:20any signs
46:20and that's
46:22the issue
46:22that's where
46:22I see
46:23men not
46:24making the
46:25adaptation
46:25that is
46:26necessary
46:26like
46:27let me
46:28let me
46:28really
46:28just quiet
46:29times by
46:30yourself
46:30when you're
46:30taking a
46:31shower
46:31I do
46:32most of
46:32my
46:32thinking
46:32when I
46:33shower
46:33and just
46:33reflect on
46:34I know
46:35she's nagging
46:35man
46:36she's really
46:36sickening
46:37at times
46:37but is
46:38there any
46:39truth
46:39to some
46:40of the
46:40things
46:40that she's
46:40seeing
46:41and that's
46:42where now
46:42you can
46:42explore
46:43different
46:44parts
46:44of yourself
46:45and it's
46:47a very
46:48hard
46:48thing
46:48to approach
46:52and swallow
46:53you know
46:53I mean
46:54I struggle
46:55with it
46:55myself
46:55but you
46:56know
46:56I think
46:56as I
46:57say
46:57a lot
46:57of
46:58taking
46:59moments
46:59for
46:59yourself
47:00stepping
47:00away
47:00from
47:01situations
47:01is
47:02very
47:03important
47:03and because
47:05we're coming
47:05to our
47:05close
47:06you know
47:08that I'm
47:08glad you
47:09mentioned about
47:10something you
47:10struggle with
47:11because we
47:11talk about
47:12things that
47:12men on a
47:13whole are
47:13struggling with
47:14you know
47:15whether it be
47:15these terms
47:16or not
47:16not taking
47:17not heed
47:17any signs
47:18all of
47:18these
47:19different
47:19things
47:19are
47:19men's
47:20ways
47:20and whether
47:21it be a
47:21coping
47:22mechanism
47:22whether you're
47:23not coping
47:24because a lot
47:25of times
47:25you know
47:26if you reach
47:26a certain
47:27point I think
47:27we've discussed
47:28this before
47:28you reach
47:29past
47:29your coping
47:30might reach
47:32certain levels
47:32that you're
47:33no longer
47:33coping you know
47:34out of
47:35control
47:35and the
47:36struggle
47:36is real
47:37and it's
47:38up to us
47:39men and
47:39our brotherhood
47:40and our
47:41manhood
47:41to recognize
47:42that
47:42in other
47:44person
47:44and not come
47:45down with
47:45that person
47:45as we mentioned
47:46just now
47:46and not say
47:47but you ain't
47:48doing this
47:48and look at
47:49you ain't
47:49making that
47:50bread
47:50and you're
47:50not doing
47:50this
47:51and you're
47:51not doing
47:51that
47:51and recognize
47:52that it's
47:53not out of
47:54I don't give a
47:55and you're
47:56going into a
47:57hole and you
47:57may reach
47:58that standard
47:59now I always
47:59say you know
48:00when you see
48:00someone you know
48:02might be a
48:03big person
48:04nobody's saying
48:05there's anything
48:05wrong with that
48:06but not everybody
48:06could tell me
48:07they're absolutely
48:08happy with being
48:09to a certain
48:10extent unhealthy
48:10and to say
48:12that
48:12when you say
48:13big
48:13well you're
48:14say heavy
48:16fat
48:17so when
48:19you put on
48:20that weight
48:20like you know
48:21I at one
48:22point was
48:22starting to
48:23put on some
48:24weight
48:24and I wasn't
48:25happy with it
48:26but I wasn't
48:26happy because
48:27what other
48:27people would
48:28think
48:28it was
48:28unhappy
48:29because I
48:30knew it was
48:30unhealthy
48:31it was
48:31unhealthy
48:31for me
48:32who loves
48:33hiking
48:33and being
48:34in the bush
48:34etc
48:35it was
48:36hindering me
48:36being able
48:37to do
48:37those things
48:38and be in
48:38the activities
48:39that I would
48:39like to do
48:40right
48:40but then
48:41you have
48:41other persons
48:42who I
48:42would know
48:42as friends
48:43might turn
48:43around and say
48:44I don't give
48:45a shit
48:45what people
48:45think
48:46but I
48:46know that
48:46you do
48:47you just
48:47don't know
48:48how to
48:49course correct
48:50at that point
48:51you need
48:51that encouragement
48:52because some
48:53of those same
48:53people now
48:54are doing
48:54triathlons now
48:55because they
48:56just needed
48:57that someone
48:58to hold
48:58their hand
48:59that particular
49:00community
49:00to be able
49:01to do that
49:02so
49:02having said
49:05that
49:05are we men
49:06or are we
49:07mice
49:07I don't like
49:08the term
49:09it's something
49:10that we need
49:10to be discussed
49:11because
49:11what we're
49:12putting in
49:13there as
49:13a mouse
49:15or mice
49:16in those
49:16qualities
49:16is simply
49:18us tapping
49:19in to not
49:19a feminine
49:20side as you
49:21said about
49:21feminine qualities
49:22it's simply
49:22to our
49:23human side
49:25our gentle
49:25side
49:26our caring
49:27side
49:27our nurturing
49:28side as
49:29men
49:29which we
49:30all should
49:30have
49:30because it
49:31all puts
49:32us into
49:33a full circle
49:34of what it
49:35takes to be
49:35a man
49:36and there
49:36is a need
49:37for strength
49:37there is a
49:38need for that
49:39as you put
49:40it Nile
49:40but there's
49:41also
49:41and there's
49:42a time
49:42and place
49:42for everything
49:43because that
49:44comes in
49:44when you have
49:45to go and
49:45swat that
49:45flying cockroach
49:46you know
49:47but there are
49:48other times
49:48that you
49:48now have
49:49to stoop
49:50down on
49:51a level
49:51eye to
49:52eye
49:52with your
49:53child
49:53or with
49:54a similar
49:55circumstance
49:55and be
49:57gentle
49:57but that
49:58doesn't
49:58make you
49:59a mouse
49:59that doesn't
50:00make you
50:00your feminine
50:01side
50:01that's
50:02simply
50:02for me
50:02in my
50:03understanding
50:04that's
50:04all in
50:05context
50:05of a man
50:06that's
50:07my
50:07three cents
50:08that's
50:10right
50:10I don't
50:12like
50:12I find
50:13that great
50:13ending
50:13I don't
50:14know
50:14what we're
50:15doing
50:15there again
50:15you can
50:16give me a
50:16closer
50:16thoughts
50:17on
50:17the topic
50:17now we all
50:20look good
50:21because I
50:21thought we
50:22was really
50:22wrapping it
50:22up there
50:23I would
50:27say
50:27to be a
50:29man
50:29is to
50:30maintain
50:30who you
50:31are
50:31whatever
50:32that is
50:32you decide
50:33who you
50:33are
50:33don't let
50:34anybody
50:34decide
50:34who you
50:35are
50:35if you
50:35have to
50:36take
50:36time
50:36alone
50:36to find
50:37out who
50:38you are
50:38do that
50:38first before
50:39you get
50:39into a
50:40marriage
50:40before you
50:40get into
50:41a business
50:42partnership
50:42before you
50:43get into
50:43leadership
50:44before you
50:45get into
50:45all your
50:45various roles
50:46a man
50:46have
50:47take some
50:47time
50:48how much
50:48of a time
50:49it is
50:49to know
50:50yourself
50:50right
50:51and you
50:52could become
50:53a mouse
50:53if you
50:53allow other
50:54people
50:54to break
50:55you down
50:55if you
50:56allow other
50:56people to
50:56take you
50:57off your
50:57path
50:58and then
50:58I'm
50:58adding
50:59what you
50:59I like
51:00what you
51:00said
51:00Robert
51:00you know
51:01not all
51:02of us
51:05if you
51:06have a
51:07brother
51:07a group
51:08of men
51:09something
51:09that lean
51:10on them
51:10so in
51:10that time
51:11when you
51:11you down
51:12you know
51:12they could
51:13pull you
51:13up and
51:13then when
51:13they down
51:14you could
51:14pull them
51:15up too
51:15yeah well
51:17I would
51:17just say
51:18I know
51:18if we
51:18are men
51:19are mice
51:19going back
51:20to you
51:21know what
51:21I was
51:21talking about
51:22earlier
51:22is that
51:22there is
51:24strength
51:24in
51:25vulnerability
51:25and just
51:27know that
51:28just know
51:28that those
51:29times
51:29that is not
51:30a weakness
51:31in being
51:32vulnerable
51:33and being
51:34sensitive
51:34sometimes
51:35you have
51:36to come
51:36down
51:36to that
51:37level
51:37that
51:38humility
51:38and that
51:40in itself
51:40is a
51:41strength
51:41that a lot
51:42of men
51:42can do
51:43you know
51:44what I mean
51:44so be
51:45proud of
51:45yourself
51:46when you
51:46know
51:47you're
51:47literally
51:47doing
51:47that
51:48you know
51:49I like
51:49that
51:49for me
51:51it would
51:51be
51:51rather than
51:52man or
51:53mouse
51:54I will
51:54go with
51:54man and
51:55mouse
51:55right
51:56it is a
51:57duality
51:58that exists
51:59where
51:59sometimes
52:00you have
52:00to be
52:00the big
52:01person
52:01you have
52:01to lead
52:02and other
52:02times
52:03you might
52:03have to
52:03shrink
52:04yourself
52:04mouse size
52:05to be
52:06led
52:06sometimes
52:08we have
52:08to make
52:09ourselves
52:09a little
52:09smaller
52:10to give
52:10someone
52:10the space
52:11to be
52:12able to
52:12lead us
52:13and a lot
52:14of men
52:14don't want
52:15to admit
52:16and sometimes
52:16you have to be
52:17led by a woman
52:17and that's okay
52:19and that's my
52:20two cents
52:21so
52:22we talk
52:23more men
52:24and mice
52:24but remember
52:25Jerry used
52:26to beat
52:26them all
52:26the time
52:27so there's
52:28a time
52:29and place
52:29for those
52:29things
52:30and what
52:30we would
52:31say just
52:31to wrap
52:32it up
52:32is the
52:33fact that
52:33you know
52:34you might
52:35know
52:35how to
52:37come out
52:38of that
52:38struggle
52:38or what
52:39to do
52:39in that
52:40struggle
52:40but you
52:40know
52:41you're
52:41struggling
52:41and because
52:42you know
52:43you're
52:43struggling
52:43it
52:44doesn't
52:45be a man
52:46ask
52:47ask for
52:47help
52:48ask for
52:48guidance
52:48you're not
52:49alone
52:50as you
52:50can see
52:51on this
52:51show
52:51the topics
52:52that keep
52:52coming up
52:53you're not
52:54alone
52:54in your
52:54struggle
52:54you might
52:55be alone
52:56many are
52:57not alone
52:57bottom line
52:58manhood
53:05brought to you
53:06in part by
53:06Reboot Sports
53:07Drink
53:07manhood
53:09brought to you
53:10in part by
53:10Solomon's Bespoke