With Marvin King Lewis
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Solomon's Bespoke.
00:05Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:14Welcome here to another conversation here on Manhood.
00:17Today's topic, we're going to get right into men and monogamy.
00:21Is that an oxymoron? That's what we're here to discuss here today.
00:24So to my right, Johan T. Iodike, Behavior Change Consultant.
00:28To his right, the one and only Mr. King, King.
00:31You know him more popularly for the recently, I would say, the acclaimed track that has come out called The Call.
00:40And to his right, Niall McNeish, Fives God.
00:44So we're getting straight into it, guys.
00:46Men and monogamy.
00:48Is that just one of those, you know, is that such a word called oxymoronic?
00:53Or is it quasi-moronic, whatever the term is?
00:55Well, firstly, I've heard the question, are men naturally monogamous, right?
01:04So I just throw the statement first, and then we'll start to discuss.
01:08So I would say, I don't think men are naturally monogamous.
01:11Most times, it's a choice.
01:13When you choose to be one woman, you choose to be one partner.
01:17But a lot of times, that's not how you really want to be.
01:21You have to make sure and ignore this person and ignore this person and ignore this person.
01:26But I would say men are maybe not naturally monogamous, but monogamous are choice.
01:32So I'll start to do that.
01:33So just to say that, just to touch on what you said there, that, you know, in doing some research, you see, again, you know, we always say we're not speaking on behalf of all men.
01:43But in the research that was done for this particular topic, because it is a very intriguing topic, you know, and you can speak for yourself initially, like, how do I feel about situations?
01:54And in certain cases, when you get the information, you know, they always say what you look for is what you see, right?
02:00So if I feel a particular way, I'm going to find things on Google, et cetera, that suit what I'm looking for, particularly to my liking.
02:10And I generally would take your point that I don't think that men are naturally monogamous.
02:15However, looking at a lot of research, they say that biologically, you are set up, the human body biologically is set up and more inclined to be monogamous.
02:28What happens is, we are mentally, we are more inclined to want to sleep around, the urge to sleep around.
02:40So it's not a biological makeup, it's just we are more inclined to then want to sleep around.
02:45That could be for all sorts of reasons, whether it be societal influences, you know, for certain levels, insecurity, porn, you're thirsty, all these different types of things.
02:54But the argument really started because people say, yeah, but, you know, if you want to do a test, people are between, you know, 60 million and 120 million spoon counts of what you have that for.
03:06And that comes down to biology, biology is the survival of the fittest.
03:09It's how you fertilize the egg, you know, the embryo, the zygote, et cetera.
03:16So it's nothing to do with the reason you have all that spoon is because you have to procreate, you know, spread your seed.
03:23Okay.
03:24What you're saying is a good point because research has shown when a man makes a child, right, and gets mad, his testosterone level naturally goes down.
03:34So I guess if you're saying biologically that, you know, we're supposed to be monogamous in that sense, why your testosterone will go down when you make a child is because you wouldn't feel to go with somebody else.
03:47Okay, I can work with that.
03:48Well, I don't know if it's where they feel, I mean, biologically, like if you speak more, and again, I'm no doctor, but a lot of that release, and I think we've discussed this in another episode, is that your body is naturally adapting to the fact that if you are ejaculating, you know, spreading your seed all over the place, your body doesn't have to go into any sort of survival mode.
04:12It's becoming almost lazy in that sense.
04:16And again, I'm not a doctor, so I'm not going to continue along that thought because I don't have the data to support it, but I do when I listen to it, you know.
04:27So based on what I'm hearing just now is that, let's just say someone who has a porn addiction, right?
04:35Real seed busting.
04:37Correct.
04:37Right?
04:38Correct.
04:39You're becoming weaker.
04:39You're becoming weaker as a less testosterone, is that what weakness is in that situation?
04:45And that happened because I no longer, there's no need for me to hunt for a mate, and hence the lack of hunting is where the dependent testosterone, that's the linear thought, right?
04:59The more celibate you are, the more potent, and again, I would like to put that out.
05:05Oh, you're all interested now.
05:06I would think that it all boils down to the individual.
05:12You know, they say different strokes for different folks.
05:14I think it's a mental thing because there are men I know that are comfortable with one woman.
05:20You know, it all boils down to probably childhood experiences, societal influences.
05:27You know, it all boils down to the individual and their mind.
05:31You know, there are men that can and do do it.
05:35You know, and then it's the same for women.
05:37There are women that will decide, well, look, I good with this man.
05:40And then there are women who decide, I good with this man, any partner.
05:43You know, so I think it all boils down to the individual because we're not primitive.
05:50It's not back in the days where we're cavemen and, you know, I think we have developed since then, and it all boils down to choice in my head.
05:58So, King, you said something that I wanted to elaborate with regards to we're not primitive.
06:04So, is it that you're saying that the Neanderthal part of us of wanting to go and spread our seed and so that somebody that's promiscuous or, in this case, polygamous, does that mean that they're less developed in terms of maturity or is that where you're going with that?
06:21Well, when I say maturity, I think that we look around and we see the way society is going, you know, and I think this should add in some way to your mindset where promiscuity is concerned.
06:38I mean, the fact of diseases, the fact of fatherless children, broken homes, you know, I think as a responsible individual, it wouldn't be wise to go down that road, you know.
06:51So, that's where I think the development comes in.
06:54You're not primitive.
06:56You're aware of what is going on in society.
06:58So, I think it would be wise to make the choice, you know.
07:02But we already know that most men are wise.
07:05Most of us not wise.
07:07Well, some will be wise and some other wise.
07:09Or some.
07:11I like that.
07:12But some wiser than others.
07:13But I feel like to air is human and a lot of men, as you mentioned, I don't like the use of neon.
07:21And at all, by the way, you know, I just stick that pin.
07:25Well, as your choice, we're only sure.
07:27Fair enough, fair enough.
07:27I'm not like it, but I'm using it.
07:28Right?
07:29But back in the day, am I talking about biblical times?
07:34It has always been multiple wives.
07:36If you talk about the tribesmen in the motherland, there's always been multiple wives.
07:42So, my question is, was that from innately a man thing?
07:49Or was it just due to resources and me being able, and by me meaning a man in those times, being able to protect?
07:56This is the amount of protection I could provide.
07:59And by extension, this is how much I could assist the tribe in taking on these wives and taking on these children.
08:05Because women outnumber men.
08:07That's a fact.
08:09Right?
08:10So, if just off of the numbers, that means...
08:13Globally, they outnumber, but not...
08:15Depends on the country.
08:17Well...
08:17Overall.
08:18Well, all right.
08:19Let's just go overall.
08:20We're going in Trinidad.
08:21We're talking as men in Trinidad and Tobago.
08:23Right?
08:24Women outnumber men greatly, actually.
08:26Right?
08:27So, that means, if every man was to get with one gill, it'd have at least a huge percentage of women who not get in any man at all.
08:37They are doomed and destined to be single and lonely forever.
08:42Just off the numbers.
08:43Is that what we're saying?
08:44Well, I don't know.
08:45I don't have that dates.
08:46I mean, but if...
08:47No, but just off the stats.
08:49If what you're saying is accurate in terms of the stats, and I mean, and guys, you know, we put in our disclaimer there.
08:54Right.
08:54You know, if the stats are indeed accurate, then you are quite right.
08:58No, but you can't...
08:59We can't have a discussion, like, if the stats are accurate, we already know.
09:03Okay.
09:03We don't have to be scientists to know that women outnumber men.
09:07Yeah.
09:07I think that's...
09:08I think that's a...
09:09I mean, we could put up our phone and look, but when you're looking at just women outnumber men, remember, they start to rank women at age 18, right?
09:19Okay.
09:19All the way up to 60s, 70s old.
09:21So, to say women outnumber men in just the purest terms may not be accurate because if a 30-year-old man might be looking for a 60-something-year-old woman.
09:32But if the number...
09:33So, for men who want to marry, if you understand what...
09:36A following, a following.
09:37Right?
09:37So, saying that blanket may not entirely be true, but I just want to say what you're saying about choice and then you're just talking about the Bible, right?
09:50Doing some research on this, I saw...
09:52That's Old Testament.
09:53And I saw a lot of where it was monogamy, polyamory, polygamy was also based on the type of society and what was necessary for survival of the society.
10:04So, as you're saying, back in the day, if one man could have taken care of 10 women, I'll just give an example, then he should because that would continue to try.
10:15Correct.
10:15And then what I read is that, I think in coming down to the...
10:21I think it was in 19th century, closer to modern day time, what they realized is it caused a lot of conflict, right?
10:28When you have more than one woman and it was destabilizing the family system.
10:32When you said they...
10:33This was in Roman civilization.
10:37Okay.
10:37So, early Catholicism, et cetera, when they started introducing monogamy.
10:42All right.
10:43So, one of the reasons was to create or decrease conflict with any family.
10:50With any family.
10:50So, if a man had more than one woman, he would see fights among the women or sometimes this person would treat the stepchildren in a poor manner.
10:59So, it was neater, let me call it that way, neater to have one man with one woman and that's what they encouraged.
11:06So, eventually what we're seeing is over time and in terms of culture and society and as you know, it depends on the environment you're in and the country where that's a norm or other religions.
11:18It's a norm.
11:19And those things are not women with a culture and race to accept that, right?
11:28And if you're raised in a different environment, then to you that's wrong.
11:32So, we're looking at the difference in right and wrong is simply where you grew up.
11:38But we can't say that because, remember, a patriarchal society would have...
11:42I'm like when you say I can't say it because I said it.
11:44Well, again, again, again.
11:46I would, I would, I would, my rebuttal to that would be men made the rules.
11:51So, the right and wrong in a situation like that, that women would have to adhere to was made by or made within a patriarch, a patriarchal society.
12:01So, a man could easily say who in charge because we are the ones that fight wars.
12:06Hey, I want all my women to be home by a certain time.
12:10I don't want you outside without a man there.
12:13I want you to be doing X, Y, Z and this is the rules.
12:16The daughter's going to grow up following those rules.
12:18The chaperones and all that, that's where all that society came about.
12:22But I just find that we are drifting a little bit from, you know, in terms of the history and all that behind it.
12:28Because however it started, you know, it is where it is at this moment.
12:33And we have certain understandings of, with regards to monogamy, it's a choice.
12:39We can all agree it's a choice to be monogamous.
12:42I mean, some people naturally don't feel that way inclined.
12:46They might have met the person that they want.
12:47They may have certain standards, whatever those standards are.
12:50Whether, you know, the standards might be seen as primitive.
12:53It might be seen as acceptable or not acceptable.
12:56The point is, it's someone's choice.
12:59And again, it could be influences based on trauma.
13:02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:04There's a whole myriad of things that could result in how a person decides to be monogamous,
13:10whether they decide to be celibate, asexual, or polygamous.
13:13And I try to look at it, as I've mentioned before in an episode, that that person, if you find that mate that you can make a decision to be with and only be with that particular person,
13:28that person's a witness to your life.
13:30They add a lot more value than just saying, just bringing it down to sex.
13:34You know, there's a lot more that comes in there, apart from the fact that, you know, people use the term, you know,
13:39or it's a condom-free environment, less stress, all of these different, which is debatable, the less stress part, right?
13:45You know, because a lot of people that are polygamous, and the reason I say that, are only there in the peripheral state.
13:51They're there for one thing, which is the physical intimacy.
13:54And they're not taking on anything other than that with regards to bills or real-life conversation, etc.
14:01You think so?
14:03When you say the majority of people are just there for one thing for polygamy.
14:07Now, being a ho, right, and polygamy and polyamory, it's three different things, you know,
14:14because polyamory and polygamy is a way of life and a philosophy.
14:18Correct.
14:18Versus I just want to go and **** down the place.
14:20Correct.
14:20If you understand what I'm saying.
14:22So that's what I said, promiscuity.
14:23Right, so if people who seriously into polyamory, because I've met people like that and spoken with people,
14:30I even had a, I don't know, it's not a couple, I had three people come in for couples counseling, right?
14:36We'll get our story in the next segment because we're going to the break just now.
14:39But it's a way of life.
14:41So if you want to use religion, like in terms of Islam, I know that before you even get a second wife,
14:47you have to be vetted to make sure you're financially prepared to even have a family.
14:51Yeah, as it should be.
14:54Of course, in Islam, they say you could have up to four wives, but if you fear for treating
14:58any of them equally, then have one.
15:00Correct.
15:01So even in that society where it is established or it is welcomed, there are still rules towards
15:08having that type of relationship.
15:10Correct.
15:11And this is Manhood, we're talking about monogamy, and we're going to have a break.
15:26This is Mr. King, and you are looking at manhood.
15:29And today we are discussing monogamy.
15:32So let me spice up the thing a little bit.
15:33Will you have any interesting stories that you could come up with?
15:37You know Trinidad and Tobago, love back and all.
15:39Yeah, I can start with one.
15:40Aye, aye, aye.
15:42I remember somebody called and said, you know, was it fee for couples counseling or for couples
15:48counseling?
15:48So when they came in, it was three people came.
15:51It was a lady, her husband, and the outside man.
15:55Outside man.
15:55Outside man.
15:56Yeah, and the outside man.
15:57But that is not couples counseling.
15:59That is troubles counseling.
16:01And she was like, Mr. Johan said, just make them behave or no?
16:05Just make them behave.
16:06And she went and stood out in the corner and voted them there.
16:09So I was like, okay.
16:11Interesting.
16:12Now this is early, early in my career, and I remember, so I was like, I asked, so what
16:17is the disagreement?
16:18Now the thing is, the disagreement had nothing to do with the relationship, well, the arrangement.
16:23You asked an obvious question.
16:24What is the disagreement?
16:25I mean, how'd it be like, well.
16:26The disagreement really was they all run a business together.
16:29Right.
16:30The two men had disagreement with the business.
16:32They already had their relationship.
16:36She used to spend four days with one and three days with the business.
16:38Wild.
16:39Very interesting.
16:40Wild.
16:41She had a child.
16:41Each one and all of them used to go to the parent-teacher meeting and things like that
16:47together.
16:47So they had their arrangement.
16:49And, well, I dealt with the issue with the conflict with the business.
16:53Business.
16:54But I was curious and I asked some questions and they really had, they were honest and
16:59they had their arrangement and it wasn't even the men in competition to see who better
17:03thing.
17:04And it is, we all like each other.
17:07We like this woman.
17:07She like us.
17:08And one man said, well, to be honest, it's only three days that she, I can really take
17:13it on.
17:13That's the outside man or that's the husband?
17:14Yeah, the outside man said that it's only three days that she, I can really take it on.
17:18And they all laughed about it within the air shot of her and then they were along the
17:23way.
17:24And that helped me understand that relationships really don't have a format.
17:29Or should I say, the format for a relationship is really people being honest.
17:34And whatever makes you happy, whatever floats your boat.
17:37Exactly.
17:37Because you just, you just, you kept saying, you kept saying, to be honest, to be honest.
17:41And I know we always speak about truth.
17:43And the truth will set you free.
17:45And in a relationship or outside a relationship, if that's how you are and you recognize yourself,
17:50listen, I am not a one size fits all.
17:53I need to be able to go out there.
17:56And I, you know, I remember a friend asking another friend of mine in my presence.
18:00And it always stuck with me for some reason.
18:02You know, he said, how many women do you have to sleep with before you realize you could
18:06get laid?
18:07And even though he was speaking to a friend of mine, it made me ask the question, how
18:12many of us actually, who are out there, whether it be at college, whether it be generally,
18:18how many of us actually ask ourselves that?
18:21And is it, does it come down to your hands?
18:23And I want to put this question ready to you.
18:25Is it sometimes that we could say, is it that we're doing it because we are look, we are
18:29attracted to so many women, that we're looking for sexual satisfaction, our libido is so high,
18:35or is it also rooted, and I mentioned a bit earlier in the segment one, is it also rooted
18:40in certain levels of insecurity, certain levels of trauma that you have to keep going out there
18:46and you're looking for something to fill a void that you might even recognize is there?
18:51Well, I would say the truth is all of the above.
18:55Human behavior is thought into feeling, into action, and sex or even seeking sex is an
19:01action.
19:02And many men, all of us, seek sex for a different reason.
19:06Sometimes, Monday the reason you want sex, Tuesday is a different reason.
19:10Some people, as you say, it could be trauma.
19:13Some people seeking connection, right?
19:15And because, let's say, you go with one woman and you didn't get the connection that you
19:18was looking for, then you seek another and another and another.
19:22It could be you never had family.
19:24Some people didn't have a family.
19:25So, you know, I want as big a family as I could get.
19:28So, I will go with 10 women and have 100 children because I just want family.
19:34You'll have some people who, as you're saying, I want to see maybe my self-esteem low.
19:38So, I want to see how many women I could actually get.
19:41To make me feel better.
19:43To make me feel better.
19:44To boost their ego, yeah.
19:45To boost their ego.
19:46Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:47Or to your friends.
19:48It could be also, for me, growing up, I was with curiosity because I have one woman
19:54don't look like the next woman or the next woman.
19:55So, some men are curious, right?
19:57And, of course, all women don't look the same.
20:00So, your curiosity sometimes may not be seated.
20:03So, I say it have many different reasons.
20:06And understanding, for the men that are looking on, even understanding your own motivations
20:11and why you're seeking sex from a woman, why you're seeking sex from one woman or 10 women
20:16is important.
20:17And we're not judging whether you should be monogamous or not.
20:20But, at least what we're discussing in this part is understanding the why.
20:23Why you want to.
20:25I think that boils down to the individual investigating self.
20:32I think a lot of the things that we do out here, we do unconsciously.
20:36And you might go off on this radio.
20:38And you do really try to get into self.
20:41You say, well, why would I want to do that?
20:43Or what is triggering me to want to do this?
20:45You understand?
20:46A lot of the time it's ego.
20:47You have something to prove, maybe to the wider world, or even to prove to yourself.
20:51So, you feel the need to want to do this, to want to.
20:54But, I think as a people, as an individual, a lot of us refuse to go into self.
21:01And I think there's the solution to many problems.
21:03And there's the answer to many questions.
21:06When you sort of look inside people, it's scary inside of you.
21:09Yeah, I must agree.
21:10I must agree.
21:11So, a lot of people base on circumstances or cultures or belief or trauma, you know,
21:17may get into different circumstances.
21:18Like, for example, I have a partner.
21:21He have two ladies.
21:22Two of them living in the same house.
21:24You breed the both of them at the same time.
21:26The both of them in hospital to make child at the same time.
21:29This one make the baby today.
21:31And the next one who belly big, who going into labor, saying down holding the baby,
21:35petting that baby in preparation to go and make she baby.
21:39And one happy family.
21:40And they don't have a problem with that.
21:42So, it all boils down, again, to the individual, what you could accept, what you could deal
21:47with, and how maybe the traumas put you in place to be able to deal with it, or the societal
21:53experiences put you in place to deal with it.
21:56But it all boils down to different cultures.
21:58And again, self, what you could deal with, and what you think is right.
22:02But is it, guys, is it acceptance?
22:07Are you really genuinely happy with that particular circumstance?
22:11Or are you apathetic towards it?
22:13Like, you probably don't, you're not putting any kind of concern or care about that particular
22:21circumstance because you're probably focusing on something like the Gen Z.
22:24You know how we understand the whole thing with sex and partners and numbers and all these
22:32things don't really matter as much to this generation.
22:35It's more, what is my purpose?
22:38What kind of, what am I going to leave as a legacy?
22:41That's more the focus.
22:43But does that take away from the fact that, is it really not bothering them?
22:48Is this really what they would have seen as their life or they're just accepting of it
22:54and it's, and I'm okay to move on with it?
22:57I think it, I think it's not bothering them, personally.
22:59I think people make the decisions that they want to make and it's usually, the difficult
23:04decisions is usually opposite to what society, that's when, that's when the decisions become
23:10hard, when society decides this is not okay, right?
23:14But generally people just want to do what they want to do.
23:17Like for me, for example, I, I want 10 kids.
23:20I know I don't want my wife to have all 10 of my children.
23:24I have bad eyesight.
23:25She has bad eyesight.
23:26All 10 of my children are going to have, I have buying glasses for everybody.
23:29I'm not going through that jump up, right?
23:31So I already know that I want to go into a co-parenting situation with multiple women,
23:37multiple different women, right?
23:39A lot of people tell me, Niall, never going to happen.
23:42You'll never find that blah, blah, blah.
23:43But I'm almost certain that I could find a woman who I could start a family with and
23:47and I could talk to my wife, turn to her and say, hey, I would like more children.
23:51I would, I need your assistance as my, my teammates to help me or help us find other
24:00women who are willing to co-parent with us.
24:03Notice I'm using the word us and not just me, right?
24:06For my goals and my motivation.
24:08I would disagree.
24:13And this is my point.
24:15The reason why you say that is because society would dictate that, hmm, I know where that
24:21boy told, man, that's not the normal order of things.
24:25I have never met a woman who willing to do that.
24:28But in reality, they have them out there.
24:30I have met women that are willing to do that.
24:31Yeah?
24:32Yeah, I have, I have.
24:33I will tell my number on you.
24:36I have met women willing to do that.
24:37There are women that, that, there are very accepting women out there that willing to act.
24:42Some of them, maybe it may be a lack of self-esteem that they tell the self, well, you know,
24:47they're just willing to get into this situation because they may not get the ideal situation
24:51themselves.
24:52But again, circumstances.
24:55It's like they, because they had nothing better, they accepted it as a, as a second
25:00place.
25:00I think some of them, that may be, that may be the issue, but then there are some of them
25:05are getting that, that good with that.
25:06They're cool with that.
25:07They do have a problem because as, as society, sometimes society, society puts so much pressure
25:12on you that you even decide to go into a monogamous relationship.
25:16Sure.
25:16And then halfway through, it might be, it might be one year, two years, 10 years, two decades.
25:21And then you realize, well, look, this, this is no, I wanted to know.
25:24But this is not for me.
25:26But society, society pressured you into this.
25:30So you tell yourself, this is what I needed to do.
25:31I need to be a missus or I need to be a Mr. So, so, so.
25:35And then some way down the road, the stresses, you realize it ain't all that cut out to be.
25:39You understand?
25:41There may be a circumstance where you tell yourself you're up here and your spouse down here.
25:46So you tell yourself, well, now I need to have somebody of this status because I have
25:49now gotten to this status.
25:50It's, it's, it's a lot of different circumstances could influence the choices.
25:55So then what we're talking about here really and truly is that monogamy generally is dictated
26:00by society because we all have choices, right?
26:03As we, as we, as we described earlier.
26:05But are the choices fighting against natural order of things?
26:11Is it that men want to just jam down the place?
26:15I personally would say no.
26:16I would say that, listen, if you find the right person, right?
26:22And that person's ticking off, you know, all the boxes are being ticked.
26:26You generally find that people that really don't, you know, they may win no shop, but they're
26:31not going to the store, right?
26:32They're not purchasing anything and there are genuine cases of that.
26:37Now, if you take that same person, that same individual, male or female, and put them in
26:41a different scenario where all the boxes are not being ticked, would they still be looking?
26:47More than, you know, I'm just saying more than likely, but you can also, that's in that
26:52particular circumstance, but there are people that genuinely don't believe in it based on
26:57upbringing, their own views, their own morals, on things like things that don't believe in
27:02the idea of cheating, being promiscuous, only saving themselves for one person, and they go
27:09along that path.
27:10And that's okay.
27:11That works for them.
27:11Okay, right.
27:12And as long as you're happy with that, that's cool.
27:14But if you're not of that, and you're fighting within yourself, that you have to conform to
27:22the norms, to what society's dictating has to happen, and you may even go down a road
27:26of then getting married, which is why you then find people cheating, getting, eventually
27:32you probably can't take it anymore and you end up getting a divorce.
27:34All of these different things are happening because it's not right for you.
27:38And I'm saying, it is not whether I'm looking at monogamy being right or wrong, it is what
27:43is right for you.
27:45Well, I'm being truthful to that.
27:47Now, I think as you ask, King asked about, is it society that dictates monogamy?
27:53As you ask that?
27:53Yeah, that was my goodly friend here.
27:55Thinking about it now is that, if, wondering if monogamy is natural, the thing is, my first
28:03answer, me personally, I don't know, you know, because I don't know if we are allowed to be
28:08in our natural state.
28:10Because we always have some sort of pressure from your parents, from your religion, from
28:16your society, from your village, from the government, from your school, under some sort of pressure
28:21to conform to whatever it is your society is in.
28:25So, if you're in a society that promotes polygamy, then you're pressured to do that.
28:30Because you might be a man, I don't need two women, I don't need three women, I just want
28:33one.
28:34But I say, no, something wrong with you.
28:36You can't handle two, you can't handle three, and then you end up doing it.
28:39Or another society where you say, I want two or three women, but they say, one to you,
28:43boy, you're running around, thing, thing, thing, and you end up being with one.
28:46So, I don't even know if we are allowed to even see what is our natural state of nature,
28:53to see whether I want two or really want one.
28:56So, I want us to discuss another level before we go to the break.
29:02The difference, because when you think about monogamy and polygamy and polyamory, you normally
29:06tend to think about that in the, with regards to relationships, right?
29:13But what about the single person?
29:15What about serial dating?
29:18Where you are single, like Nile, and you...
29:21Oh, you know Nile's single?
29:23I am.
29:24Don't say that, and then next thing when you're done, you're phone going over.
29:27How are you going to say that?
29:28All right.
29:28Well, you're going to ask him for numbers from you.
29:30No, I'm single, I'm single, I'm single.
29:33But he said that, you just won't be paying attention, which is normal.
29:36I mean, he's okay, right?
29:40So, if Nile is single, and Nile decides, okay, I'm dating this girl today, tomorrow I'm dating
29:47this other girl, next day I'm dating this other girl, is that wrong?
29:51What's wrong in that?
29:52Because he's not being dishonest.
29:54He's not in a relationship.
29:55That's a serial monogamy.
29:57I was looking at the times that have something called serial monogamy.
29:59Yeah, serial monogamy.
30:00I feel like I'm falling into this category.
30:02Yeah, because it's not to say you're looking for 10 women, but right now, I have, let's
30:11say I'm dating 10 women, but my aim is to find one.
30:14Yeah, well, then you're shopping, come like you're going to the car dealership.
30:17You drive a range today, you go by Toyota, you see what Toyota have.
30:21You drive the Nissan, and you say, nah, what's that, my little taller, you know?
30:24You're shopping around.
30:25A Ford or a Honda, one of a range.
30:27But you're not driving all of them at the same time.
30:29So all of them are these, if you had the four car pack up in your garage, that is polyamory,
30:35polygamy.
30:36But if you're driving around, one of a time.
30:39Yeah, what fits your style?
30:41So then, we have to go to a break, right?
30:45And the conversation again, you know, we're going to be talking a bit more about it in
30:48the final segment where we're talking a bit more about, like I said, serial monogamy.
30:52But I want us to now look into this final segment, guys, as to the consequences of these actions.
31:01So what happens afterwards, like the levels of violence that we might see as a result
31:06of it, the rage that comes out of it.
31:08You know, you have a song, you know, The Call.
31:10You know, some of these things are, is it always comes back down to that sex, that jealousy,
31:15that rage, women feeling scorned, all of these different things that comes down to that choice.
31:23Monogamy, polygamy, polyamory, serial monogamy, all these different terms.
31:28And that's what we're looking at.
31:29We're taking a short break.
31:30We're going back to manhood.
31:42We're discussing masculinity, men, and monogamy.
31:47And there are some of the consequences of practicing monogamy or the opposite, which is polyamory
31:54and polygamy.
31:54And one consequence, immediately, I could think of is poor family structure.
32:00Because if you are a man who's going around with many women and having children, and you're
32:05not taking care of the children, we all know the consequences.
32:08I mean, I don't even have to go into it.
32:09Me, as a counselor, I have seen many families, many single parents who come in with their children,
32:15some male boys and girls who don't know their fathers, who want to know their fathers.
32:19And as a result of a man who just went around and was spreading his seeds.
32:23So, we know some of these societies when it comes, in terms of that.
32:27And one that I would say is, in terms of managing more than one relationship, on twofold, you
32:35may be giving each person half, 50% to yourself, 60% to yourself, 40% to another person, which
32:41may not be fair, but also for you, right?
32:44As a man.
32:44I mean, there are times in my life where I had more than one woman, and it's a tiring
32:49thing.
32:50Because at that time, I believed I really loved both of those women.
32:54I wanted to give them all of me.
32:56And I think that is very much possible, right?
33:00One man could love more than one woman.
33:02Yes, yes.
33:02But to be honest, all of me was difficult to give to two women, because I can't give
33:08100% of myself to two people, because it's a lot.
33:12And if I really wanted to spend enough time and give them everything, then it was too much
33:17for me as one.
33:17That's what made me realize that men who want to have more than more women in a serious
33:23relationship, it takes a lot.
33:25But let me ask you a question.
33:28Do you think if finance is wealthy, if you were in a position to be well off and to be
33:36able to treat the both of them the way you wanted to treat them, do you think this could
33:41have become an ideal situation for you?
33:42No, it was not a financial thing, you know.
33:44It was not about money.
33:45It was about the time and emotional energy to give them.
33:49I didn't have enough to give them the way they would have wanted it.
33:53So this is a real rich conversation, and we're focusing specifically on monogamy, right?
34:00But I want to take it to the other level.
34:03So if the circumstances were right, so people would be like, hey, you know, I could have
34:07three women.
34:08But what happens when the fun stops?
34:12So you're in a relationship, let me paint a picture, you're in a relationship, you have
34:16or you're not in a relationship, you're a serial monogamist, and you're enjoying yourself.
34:20And we're not even going down the road of diseases.
34:23I'm talking about what happens in the societal impact of your actions.
34:29So say, for example, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
34:34A woman finds out that you've cheated on her.
34:36The betrayal, the trauma that that woman may experience, the violence that may take place,
34:43whether in retribution to your act, to yourself, to maybe to the woman, or to a guy, all of
34:50these different circumstances that we see happening.
34:53So crimes of passion, I think they call it, right?
34:56That's what I want us to talk a bit more about.
34:57Because we, you know, it's one thing while you're doing it, it's fun.
35:01You know, there's a positive side, but there's also the negative, the repercussions for your
35:07actions.
35:07Well, I, as an individual, have been cheated on more than once.
35:13I, from a tender age, I have experienced it.
35:16And we have to agree as men, it's not a feeling that anybody wants to go through.
35:21And I think at that point in time, you have to be so strong within your mind to not act
35:27out.
35:28I think the strongest thing you could do is smile and walk away.
35:32I think that is the most powerful thing a man could do.
35:36Smile and walk away.
35:38Because the easiest thing for you to do is to lash out.
35:41To try to vindicate your heart, because your heart, your heart squeezing at that point
35:46in time, eh?
35:46Your heart crushing.
35:47Imagine, I think as men, it's hard for us to learn that, but that's something that
35:52nobody can't really teach you about.
35:54Yeah, you have to be strong within yourself to face that.
35:57You understand?
35:59So, I would enter them women stronger than men, then, if that's the case.
36:03No, I think a lot of women will key up your car, puncture your tire, try to kill you.
36:07Overall, I see women take born way better and more often than men.
36:12No, I think a lot of them take it because they are not as strong.
36:18They can't rush into the men and beat them or a man will rush into a woman and try to
36:22beat you up and capsize you.
36:23I'd rather disagree with that.
36:24I know.
36:25I honestly believe that has a lot to do with it.
36:28Because women have more options than men in terms of partners.
36:30They do sometimes, they don't want the options and sometimes they're so invested.
36:34Sometimes they're so invested in this relationship, they were probably so faithful and loyal in
36:42this relationship that they can begin to fathom how this man could do me that too.
36:46Just like how a man wouldn't be able to fathom, well, I try my best to make this woman happy
36:52and look at what she's doing.
36:53So I think it goes both ways, but then a man with the masculinity and the ego and the
36:59strength is 99% of the time able to overpower a woman or to make your presence felt so he
37:06might be able to grab onto she and strangle she, whereas a woman may not be able to do
37:09that.
37:10So I think a lot of them just have to whimper in the corner and cry it out.
37:13Maybe into a true strength, but she's cooking meals.
37:17She's watching sleep.
37:19Women have their weights.
37:20Women have their weights against you.
37:21We talk about the acts of retribution and retaliation, which are some of the consequences.
37:35It's a men's show, right?
37:37And I want us to, what goes on, we can only speak what goes on in our heads.
37:42We can assume what is happening in women's heads and how they feel, but we don't have
37:46the anatomy to be an expert on that.
37:49What we have is an expert on what we as men go through in different circumstances.
37:55And like you, I have been cheated on.
37:57And it is not a nice feeling.
37:59It is a gut punch in your heart.
38:02It's horrible, right?
38:03It's one of the worst things.
38:04Right, telling you.
38:05And that's for two reasons.
38:08One, your heart, because you're a lovely person.
38:10And two, in certain circumstances, it's your ego.
38:13It's like, oh, that could happen to me, right?
38:15You know, and then you start to also think, as men, you start to think of what that person
38:22do better than you.
38:25Yeah, that's what it could be.
38:25Yeah, that's the question.
38:27And that, that only...
38:28You call that the echo from the horn.
38:33And the horn goes with the echo in your head, yeah.
38:35That's terrible.
38:36Yeah, you start to forget the echo.
38:37Anytime you go to study the echo, boy, you can hang in a tree or jog in a sea.
38:41Yes, I wanted to talk a bit more about that thing, because the echo from the horn is
38:47you're putting it on.
38:48Wow.
38:48I like it that too much.
38:50I love it.
38:50It's a real thing.
38:51And people need to address that.
38:53You see, like you said, if in a utopian environment, we would smile and walk away and say, hey,
38:57will it happen?
38:58Let me just move on.
38:59You know, hurl us or whatever you want to put it.
39:01Because sometimes you get a horn, but you must be put up with six yourself.
39:05Yeah.
39:05You understand?
39:06And you never thought it would happen to you.
39:08So people have to be very honest with themselves when it comes to that.
39:11But it still doesn't make a difference with regards to that.
39:16And I know I like my sayings when I say some things, right?
39:19But it brings about a lot of things, because sometimes, you know, there's a whole saying,
39:25you know, your daddy and your daddy, but your daddy don't know.
39:27Of course.
39:28The child is a man, he's no-cone man.
39:30And you go down this whole road of, wait, no, you start to realize now, apart from the
39:34horn, that that child isn't yours, and all of these other things happen.
39:37And it results in violence.
39:39It results in certain behaviors.
39:40Well, I think, and that's why some people, when they choose monogamy, and then they be
39:47cheated on, right?
39:49Then they get upset, because, you know, I listen to society, I listen to religion, I listen to
39:53whatever it is, and I choose this one woman.
39:56I want to be this one woman.
39:57I could have be you two, I could have, I could have do things.
40:00But I decide to stay with this one woman, and then she teach on me, oh, the child look like
40:05the snow-cold man.
40:06Then, of course, that will bring up a different kind of rage, you know, because it will bring
40:13up rage, it will bring up regret, it will bring up, you know, self-betrayal, because
40:17you know that's not what you wanted, but you do it.
40:21Or if you made the actual choice to say, listen, I'm going to be a one-woman man.
40:26Because if you felt you only want to be with one woman, and that's a bit different, you'll
40:30still feel betrayed, but if you decide, hey, I give up on Cathy, or I give up on Sarah, or
40:36whoever the person is, and I decided not to go down that road in that party, and come
40:40and be with you, and then you turn around, and I get what?
40:44Boy, that is the most heart-wrenching thing you could face in your life, you know what I'm
40:49telling you, and sometimes, because of this decision you make, and say, well, look, I neglect
40:54all else for this woman, you know, I want to be with this woman alone, you may make that
40:59decision as a man, and then you come and end up in this circumstance, if you're not strong
41:03within yourself, you could even decide, well, hey, never me again, I will never belong to
41:08no one-woman again, Jean, Dinah, and the cousin, the aunt, the tante, everybody, get in it, yeah.
41:14Clementina, Clementina.
41:16Back home, moving, you understand?
41:18Or you could still say within yourself, hey, this happened, these are circumstances I couldn't
41:24control, but like in my example, I tell you, I've been through it several times, and I
41:30still decide within myself, that I, my ultimate, or the situation for me is, I would like to
41:38have that one person that I could share life with, that we could still be together, and
41:42I will still neglect all else for somebody else in the future, you understand?
41:47Because I believe, I believe in, I believe in that family life, I've lived family life
41:56for, for many years, and for me, I believe that's the way to go.
42:00And you clean slate every time?
42:01Yeah, I clean slate again, I clean slate every time, I've, I've, I've clean slate more
42:07than, more than twice in my life already, you know?
42:09And I still believe that I could share my life with that one person.
42:14There's that person out there for me that I could be for them, no competition, we all
42:17come together, we form a unit, and we face life, and we make it happen.
42:21For me, that is the ultimate situation.
42:23I mean, I could be hot like a dog too, I mean, I will watch her, watch her big boomsie rolling,
42:27so I might watch her nice dog last, so I might say, yeah, this thing will be real good.
42:31This is natural for men, and I believe it's natural for women as well, because a woman
42:35goes, actually, man, and she goes, still, oh, you look strong, man, strong, man, looking
42:38good.
42:39You understand?
42:40But for me, I still, even though it may have happened to me in the past, I still believe
42:46that the way for me to go, and again, as we started the conversation, I believe it boils
42:50down to the individual choice and circumstance.
42:54You see that word choice?
42:55It's a, it's a huge one.
42:58And I, myself, again, you know, during, during these conversations, you learn, and you realize,
43:03everything is choice.
43:04You know, how you react is a choice.
43:07You know, your emotions, we talk about this all the time, you being angry, or you choosing
43:11to be enraged, or cry, or whatever the case may be, you are making that choice.
43:16Nobody's making you behave in that way.
43:19And that choice to be monogamous is a, as you said, big man thing.
43:24Yeah, big man thing.
43:25And it's, and how many of us actually can be men to really do, to say, hey, you know
43:31what, I can make any choice, whether that person does certain things or not, I am not going
43:37to be that person.
43:39You could be cheating in the only place, I am not going to do that.
43:43Whether you decide to stay in a relationship is a whole other story.
43:46But I think that it's a, it certainly is a, the, the, the, one of the traits of a real
43:54man is, is doing that.
43:56Can I say that I have, is, is being able to make that strong choice and make a decision
44:02because it's also out of respect.
44:04Have I always been that in my life?
44:06No, I've been, in that context, I would say that's a little boy thing, where you're still
44:11going through periods of, am I attractive enough, insecurity, certain levels of trauma,
44:16looking for something to fill that void, apart from the fact that, hey, you know, I'm curious,
44:22like, you know, an Asian or a white person or a black person or a dogler, you see in different
44:27women, women are attractive, especially in Trinidad and Tobago, we have some of the most
44:31beautiful women in the world, so it's hard, and then a carnival pass, or a party, you
44:36know, it, it is kryptonite, but that restraint, and being able to say, I see you, but no.
44:45I, I just watched you, I, I liked you, I always watch you, as a matter of fact, you know, and
44:50I think the more you show it off, is the less attractive it does be to me.
44:56I always believe any product that you have to advertise too much in good.
45:00Because when the product is really good, you don't need to advertise to the people, it
45:04has been high demand.
45:05When the product is too good, or when the product is great, you don't even need to advertise
45:10it without a single ad, they're going to come and purchase it, you understand?
45:15Once you have to advertise it too much, once you have to show it off, once you feel it
45:18need to be, um, in audio for everybody to see, something wrong with that product, that
45:24is my thinking.
45:25The insecurity there that you still don't realize how good that is.
45:29You still need somebody, you need that constant reassurance for somebody to tell me, hey,
45:33look how I'm looking.
45:33No, that's validation, that's validation.
45:35That's validation you need.
45:36But King, before, before we wrap, because we have to go to closing thoughts just now,
45:40you know, I want, I want it, I want to use the opportunity to talk about two things that,
45:43you know, that might be a little away from the topic of monogamy here today.
45:47But one, just somebody thinking behind such a powerful song in the call and what you feel
45:52is being achieved since that, that song has come out and also for you to give us your
45:58understanding of what, what is a real man?
46:00Um, let me start from, from the latter.
46:06I would say a real man is one that is able to go into self.
46:11And I think that is one of the most powerful things we can do as a human being, to go into
46:16self, to realize purpose.
46:20You understand?
46:22I think, and, and reject ego.
46:24Ego destroys nations.
46:26A lot of what is going on in the society today is because of ego.
46:30Because people trying to take on, take hold of things and twist things that they have
46:34no control over.
46:36And this, if you, if you don't understand it or manage it, it causes you to be angry.
46:42It causes you to lash out.
46:44It causes you to, to, to want to do things that society will not accept.
46:48And in the end of the day, you'll only be harming yourself.
46:52You understand?
46:52You would only be harming yourself.
46:55The purpose behind the call for me was to, the call was really a project to spark conversation.
47:03Right?
47:03Come together and say, well, this is the sentiment of the country.
47:07We are prominent figures.
47:08We are the reggae artists.
47:10We support conscious music.
47:12Let's make a statement.
47:13Let's start conversations.
47:15Let's hope we could get corporate Trinidad involved now in solutions.
47:21Because at this point where the country is at, I think we could no longer play the blame game.
47:26She didn't want to make all them trends.
47:28She could have closed she leg or the senator school.
47:30He should have learned.
47:31We passed that stage right now.
47:33We're in crisis and we need to spark conversations that could ensue in change and solutions for change.
47:42I think there's a vast disconnect between the people that could actually make changes and the ground.
47:49I think we need to look closer at the ground in order to come up with real solutions.
47:54So the call was really to initiate these conversations.
47:59I mean, the call has been somewhat, was somewhat dormant after a little while after a job.
48:03But believe me, behind the scenes, we are working on some campaigns to enable these things, to start these conversations.
48:10Like with monogamy, it's a choice.
48:13Violence, gang life, badness is also a choice.
48:16So then we need to start to instill or set the narrative that would let the youths know, well, hey, here it is going on.
48:25If you choose this road, this is what is going to happen.
48:28You understand?
48:29We need to start to set these narratives from young.
48:31We need to implant it into their brain.
48:34So we need to find ways to do that.
48:36So that was what the call was really about, to initiate or spark this fire.
48:40So let's use this opportunity to start part of that narrative and to start part of that campaign.
48:47If you could speak directly in that camera and give us your closing thoughts to the nation.
48:53In terms of monogamy, men and monogamy.
48:57All right.
48:58Men and monogamy.
49:00The topic at hand.
49:02Men, you might be hotter than hot dog.
49:06You want to spread your seeds.
49:07You want to sprinkle it here and there.
49:08But I think as human beings, we all have a purpose.
49:13And in society today, with how society is going, I think sometimes we need to put society before self or purpose before ego.
49:23So as much as you may want to sprinkle it here and there, think about what is happening in this society.
49:28Think about the future.
49:29Think about you having these children all over the place and you not being there for some unforeseen reason.
49:35Perhaps you get bounced down.
49:36You end up with a sickness.
49:37You end up with one foot, your care work.
49:39What is going to happen with these children?
49:41So I think we need to be more responsible as men when it comes to sprinkling the seeds.
49:47When it comes to being here and being there.
49:49And just as you may not want somebody that you are in a relationship with to give you that level of hurt, to be horny or to, you understand what I'm saying?
49:59I think we as a human being should not try to place this on someone else as well.
50:06This is just my thoughts.
50:08You know, people have different issues.
50:10They might look at it differently based on their circumstances, but these are just my thoughts.
50:14My words to the nation are men.
50:17I know we go big.
50:19I know we hotter than hot dog.
50:20But sometimes you have to put purpose first.
50:23You have to go within self and find what is your purpose and try to justify a better standard of living.
50:31That's just my thoughts.
50:34Who wants to follow that?
50:36I will follow.
50:38I will follow.
50:39But that was wonderful, by the way.
50:41That was like real strong.
50:45My thoughts on it would be everything is about sex except sex.
50:51Sex is about power.
50:52And power dictates the relationship that you're in.
50:55And sometimes, as a man, you have to make decisions that you have to know that society isn't dictating your thoughts.
51:11So the reason why you want to be in this relationship is because your family that's around you or the wider audience around you wants you in this relationship.
51:19If that's the case, then you're in that relationship for the wrong reasons and then the problems that come out of it after that, that's the result of that one error that you're making.
51:34So think about the reason why you're in a relationship.
51:38And it's okay to have other styles of relationships.
51:41Everything does not need to be as dry and clear-cut as society dictated it for you to be.
51:50Men, whatever is your decision in terms of monogamy, polygamy, polyamory, ensure to do it and understand that this is your choice.
52:00It's not that if anybody forcing you to do it or you're not doing it because you want to please someone else, also ensure you do it within truth so that all parties involved, including yourself, you're honest with yourself and you're honest with everybody involved.
52:13Whether it is one woman, one woman, or five women.
52:16So I have to follow three powerful gentlemen there and three powerful endings.
52:24And again, I'd like to thank all of you certainly for being here and the enlightenment here again today.
52:29You know, my message is going to be simple.
52:31Do on to others.
52:32You have a choice.
52:34You know, there's part of that choice is the fact that you can be a jack of all trades and master of none.
52:39If you stick with that one person, you can be pretty great.
52:42That person can be a witness to your life and you can be a witness to their life and you can build some really powerful things instead of spreading yourself thin.
52:49You know, be that concentration of effort and be that person that you want to be.
52:54You know, what does it take a real man to be monogamous?
52:57I would think at the closing of this show, yes, because it takes, it's not just whether or not you want to be with another woman, but the fact that you make a choice not to be and to be a better person.
53:10So do on to others.
53:11Choice, there's always a consequence to any action.
53:14Be prepared for that action and make the right choice.
53:20Be the right choice.
53:21Make the right choice.
53:21So this was manhood.
53:23Again, men versus, or men and monogamy.
53:26Thank you, Johanse, for always being here.
53:29King, for gracing us, you know, continually offering.
53:31The pleasure was well, man.
53:32The pleasure was well, man.
53:33You know, really insightful stuff.
53:35You know, echo, was it echo?
53:37Echo horn.
53:38Echo horn.
53:38Echo horn.
53:39Echo horn.
53:40That's wild, bro.
53:41Echo horn.
53:42That is something that, that is a whole other topic that we have to explore here on manhood.
53:48We're nearing the end of season three.
53:50So continue to stay with us.
53:51Niall, you know, thanks for the insight again.
53:54This has been manhood.
54:00Manhood.
54:01Brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
54:04Manhood.
54:04Brought to you in part by Solomon's Bespoke.