With Keevan 'Keevo' Lewis
Category
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TVTranscript
00:00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:00:09So thank you for joining us yet again on another conversation on manhood.
00:00:14Today's topic, a really, really impactful one.
00:00:17I know I say that nearly every episode and conversation, but it is.
00:00:21I mean, to me, it's always very impacting, very insightful.
00:00:26And, you know, I hope that, you know, everything that comes out of this show and this forum,
00:00:35that likewise men and women out there listening also appreciate, you know, some of the views expressed there.
00:00:42They're just views. Remember, we always say we are not speaking on behalf of all men.
00:00:46We are a few men speaking to all men.
00:00:49So today's topic, the role and influences of men in modern-day parenting.
00:00:59So the role and influences of men in...
00:01:03Now, you see, brothers, this is what I'm talking about.
00:01:05This is where we have to band together as brothers, right?
00:01:07Because instead of coming together, you see, the first opportunity is,
00:01:11I'll go tear the man down, right?
00:01:13I had a whole opening salvo, and because I remembered or didn't remember one word,
00:01:19and I called on my brothers to remind me, you know, I had to get out with some Zippo.
00:01:24You know, some...
00:01:24Because we are churnalier, man.
00:01:25Some churnalier, a bit of peep on me, you know?
00:01:29So the role and influence of modern-day men and parenting.
00:01:35So change it around a little bit.
00:01:36So that's the topic today.
00:01:37To my right, Johanse, IODK, behavior change consultant.
00:01:41I think I might have to change our title up a little bit to maybe provocateur in some cases.
00:01:46You know, out there with the red jacket looking fly, right?
00:01:50To his right, Kivo, another good partner, comedian.
00:01:55A man who needs no introduction.
00:01:57A man who certainly needs no introduction.
00:01:59I need to introduce myself more than he would.
00:02:01Kivo, comedian, influencer, friend, manhood brethren, man of the people, so many other titles.
00:02:09Really appreciate you being here today.
00:02:11And father.
00:02:11And father.
00:02:11Correct as well.
00:02:12And father.
00:02:13And who selected the topic for today?
00:02:16Also, Niall, to his right, vibes gone.
00:02:20I'll take it.
00:02:22I'll take it.
00:02:23That'll sink in, right?
00:02:24Okay.
00:02:25In.
00:02:25So we're talking about a very, a very apt, very current conversation.
00:02:34We've seen, you know, up to a week or so ago, a couple weeks ago, we've seen the conversation about the woman who had, I think, seven children, fathered.
00:02:48Three were fathered by one man, the other four by another man.
00:02:54And, you know, the influence or participation in how they were growing up seems to be almost null and void or absent.
00:03:03And it really, it really brings about this topic on so many levels as to, one, where, where are these fathers?
00:03:12What is the impact on no father being around?
00:03:16What pressure does that put on the mother to be both mother and father?
00:03:20What does she have to sustain to try and, you know, not only for, also for her mental health and all, so many other ways of us who are fathers, present fathers, how we are coping.
00:03:33Because there's no, there's no roadmap.
00:03:35We're just doing our best.
00:03:37And is the best the best?
00:03:39It's our best that we know.
00:03:41Is the best good enough?
00:03:42Is the best good enough?
00:03:43So, guys.
00:03:45Well, let me just, can I just jump in quickly and just ask about that woman that you talked about with seven kids, right?
00:03:51You said that the fathers are not around.
00:03:53Is it that they weren't around for her or they weren't around for the kids?
00:03:59Because there are a lot of women who claim, I'm a single mother, when in reality, the pop's still caring for the child.
00:04:06It's not that you're a single mother.
00:04:07You're single and a mother.
00:04:10And there's a difference there, you know?
00:04:12So, I just want to clarify.
00:04:14So, in this particular case, the mother had said that the fathers do what they can, right?
00:04:26Okay.
00:04:26But the state of she's looking for employment and a plea to the nation was, of course, for assistance.
00:04:35Financially?
00:04:36Financially.
00:04:36So, it don't have to be that the men were, I just don't want to be part of my children.
00:04:41We don't know.
00:04:42But there are circumstances.
00:04:43I'm only using that as a most recent story because there are scenarios, as we know.
00:04:50We have friends.
00:04:50We have family.
00:04:51We know people.
00:04:52I mean, it's in the nation, you know, regards to, you know, maybe certain, it's attributed to maybe levels of crime where children turn to gangs, et cetera, because of the absence of a father.
00:05:02So, I'm only using that to say, here, we have another scenario similar to that.
00:05:08Where I wanted to get to was, when I say it's not the same, is I feel that we have to clarify.
00:05:14A lot of the times, it's real easy to say the men aren't all very absent in children's life.
00:05:20But the reality is, a lot of the times, men just can't deal with the woman.
00:05:25Men just prefer.
00:05:26That doesn't make them not absent, eh?
00:05:28Even though they can't deal with the woman, that means they're still absent.
00:05:31But, I guess...
00:05:34So, even though there are reasons, and I wouldn't say valid or non-valid, the point is, if a man says, I can't deal with the woman, and so I'm not dealing with the children, he's still absent.
00:05:46If he wants to deal with the children, but don't want to deal with the woman...
00:05:49Well, that's called co-parenting.
00:05:50You have an understanding of co-parenting.
00:05:53He's still there.
00:05:53So, you have them maybe four days a week.
00:05:56I have them the other three days a week.
00:05:57There are ways to go about it.
00:05:59Now, there are scenarios where the woman, to spite the man, or vice versa, depends on the situation, will not allow that other person to see the kids.
00:06:10I mean, then you have to go to court and try and get custody and all these different things.
00:06:16But, I'm talking about outside of those particular scenarios.
00:06:20Or, we could dive deeper into it later on.
00:06:23But, we're talking about men's role and the various roles or understanding of...
00:06:33Being a father in this one time.
00:06:35Being a father in this one time.
00:06:37And what we face.
00:06:38So, that could be one.
00:06:39Well, we could start with a simple definition.
00:06:41To me, a father is, without looking at Google or anything, simply, if you give the sperm for the egg and you make a child, it makes you a father.
00:06:50Now, I know that's the base, the most base version of a father.
00:06:54And, I'm starting there because we could start to build on it.
00:06:57Because, we know a father takes a lot more than just donating the sperm.
00:07:00Well, to be a dad.
00:07:01Well, right.
00:07:03See, we're getting a little semantic there.
00:07:05So, a father, to me, we start on that basis, somebody who fathered a child.
00:07:10Meaning, that you gave genetic material and a child created.
00:07:14You found fertile soil.
00:07:15Right.
00:07:16So, we start in there.
00:07:17Right.
00:07:17Now, we can start to add on it.
00:07:19Because, whether it is you're married to the woman or not.
00:07:22Or, you even like the woman or not.
00:07:25Once you have a child, I think your role now changes.
00:07:28So, we can start to define now what we mean by father.
00:07:32So, like you said, Kivo, what would you define a father as?
00:07:38A father is the foundation on which a child builds him or herself.
00:07:45So, he provides that safe base and also the tools for that child to be able to build themselves from 0 to 7, 7 to 40, 40 to 21.
00:07:56So, in a sense, without a good foundation, without having that stable foundation, you can't really build a house.
00:08:03And, you'll only condemn a house if the foundation off.
00:08:06So, they always talk about the father being the roof.
00:08:08I don't think the father is the roof.
00:08:09The father has to be the foundation of the house.
00:08:12So, for a child to build themselves, you need to be that solid foundation.
00:08:16So, a father or a dad is the solid foundation provided for the child to build.
00:08:21So, when a father tells you children, you know, like fathers love to tell their children, listen, when you're under my roof.
00:08:26Or you could say, well, it's not really a roof, dad.
00:08:29No.
00:08:29But, you're supposed to be the foundation.
00:08:30I'll talk about your foundation.
00:08:32I'm working on your foundation.
00:08:33This is not your roof.
00:08:34The roof could blow up easily.
00:08:36But, the foundation, most times, it's our society is broken because there's a foundation issue.
00:08:42Right?
00:08:43And, if you could only condemn a building, the foundation is off.
00:08:46So, I think the father is the foundation.
00:08:47So, what I was telling, what I was telling you, Johanse, when you thought there was semantics, you know how to let things go easy, right?
00:08:55Go ahead, go ahead.
00:08:56They say that, you know, there's that old saying where you say anybody can be a father, but not everyone can be a dad.
00:09:02You could father a child, you know.
00:09:04Only you know that saying.
00:09:05You donate, you donate.
00:09:07Well, Kivo knows it.
00:09:08Yeah, I heard about that.
00:09:09Once you're, once you're a certain, you know.
00:09:12Bad.
00:09:13Yeah.
00:09:13A couple, enough, enough.
00:09:15Yeah, yeah.
00:09:15What's that sort of pepper there?
00:09:16Yeah, you know.
00:09:17And, I don't think you fell in a bucket of paint on your way here.
00:09:21So, I'm assuming you have some levels, right?
00:09:24But, you know, anyone could father a child.
00:09:27You could, anybody could, you know, provide the sperm, you know, you can have intercourse, and you can father a child.
00:09:32But, to be a, it takes something different to be a dad, to be there present, to be there in the child's life, more importantly, to show the mother respect.
00:09:42Mm-hmm.
00:09:43Because, no matter what your circumstances are, even if you're co-parenting, you've had a divorce, you've felt you've fallen out, for whatever reasons, in the presence of a child, you must exalt that person.
00:09:53Make sure that that person sees that mother as her queen, or his queen.
00:09:57Yeah.
00:09:58And, you know, you shouldn't treat them a particular way, you know, any negative way at all.
00:10:09But, certainly not in front of the child, and then expect them to do anything different.
00:10:13Mm-hmm.
00:10:13Because they're learning, like a sponge, they're learning.
00:10:16So, that's one of the first things.
00:10:19And, you know, a second would be, of course, providing.
00:10:22Yeah.
00:10:22In whatever capacity, even if you can't financially make it, your duty is to do what you need to do to ensure that that child has the best upbringing.
00:10:34Foundation.
00:10:35And foundation as possible.
00:10:37And, you know, another thing that I hold true, that my father would tell me, and you see it as a bandied about all the time, is the father is the only person who actually, you know, your children, sorry, are the only people that you actually truly want to see do better than you.
00:10:58Mm-hmm.
00:11:00As a father, you want to see your children be better than you are.
00:11:04And it's only, and if you really think about it deeply, everything else is, are you really, do I really want to see Niall do greater than me?
00:11:13Do I really want to see you?
00:11:14No, you should.
00:11:15But, again, you know, I like to use the word you told me.
00:11:18But, the loss of a father, I mean, you could go into that conversation, but.
00:11:24I would say.
00:11:24I feel like a rambling.
00:11:25No, no, you're not rambling, but in terms of.
00:11:28Yes, he was rambling.
00:11:28Wanting somebody to get, to do better than you, I want everybody to do better than me here, but I don't think I'm invested in getting them to be better, right?
00:11:38Hey, I want you to do great, I want you to do great, right?
00:11:41Because, for me, we're not in the same lane, and why should I fight you down for, you know, succeeding?
00:11:46Yeah.
00:11:46But, my child, I'm invested in making sure they become better than me.
00:11:51So, I think that's his perspective.
00:11:53I am invested in making sure that you become Kivo 2.0.
00:11:57Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense.
00:11:59And, I would add my definition, because I was going to say, I, my definition from a father is consistency.
00:12:06And, that could also tie into what he's saying about that foundation stability.
00:12:10So, even whether, even if he only have $10, but he given that $10 every month, even though he's not a million dollars, you know, I could count on a father to be there, right?
00:12:22And, then he said, being present.
00:12:25Even if you can't provide every single thing, just knowing that, you know, your father's there.
00:12:30I think that's a real important part.
00:12:32And, I would say that I think that's where a lot of fathers miss the mark.
00:12:36Because, sometimes, I think being consistent in an action takes a lot more effort, even if it's a small action, than doing a big bravado of things.
00:12:46Because, you could come and do all kind of things for a birthday party, but then the child never see you for the next year.
00:12:53Or, if you come with one lollipop every Saturday, which could come with a much cheaper than the birthday party, but that one lollipop every Saturday will make that big difference.
00:13:02So, I would say, for me, the father is a figure of consistency.
00:13:07Would you, Kivo, would you say that a father needs to be in a household for that foundation to be set?
00:13:15He needs to be, mainly because I think there are three things that help a child develop.
00:13:23So, one, identity, meaning as a young man, he sees what a man should be.
00:13:29Two, individuality, where the young man or the young woman sees the opposite sex parent in terms of learning their emotions, how to manage their emotions and regulate it.
00:13:39And then, the third part is intimacy.
00:13:42As Robert would have said, how do I see my mother and father interact with each other?
00:13:47So, I learn how to treat my girlfriend when I get older.
00:13:52I learn what a man should do for me.
00:13:54All those things from the woman's perspective.
00:13:56So, him not being there, while, of course, if it is that you go to daddy's house and mommy's house and they have their own spouses or girls and whatnot, they can still see it that way.
00:14:07But, ideally, you know, the two parents who would have birthed them, you know, it would help.
00:14:11But, I'm not saying it's impossible, but ideally, it should be that way.
00:14:14So, we need to go to a break, and we're talking here about the roles and influences of men in modern-day parenting.
00:14:26So, you know, a lot in there to take in, you know, either men not being present, the importance of foundation, you know, breadwinners.
00:14:36This term that, you know, when men are looking after their children, it's called babysitting.
00:14:40A lot of things inside of there, but we'll talk a lot more when we come back.
00:14:44So, welcome back to Manhood.
00:14:57And, most importantly, today, we are really honing in on the topic of the influence and role of men in modern-day parenting.
00:15:07And, for me, it's important for us to talk holistically, but get down into some more specifics.
00:15:15And, one thing I always thought about in terms of the whole rhetoric of the absent father.
00:15:20Now, when you think about the absent father, what do you think is the impact of the absent father on the household?
00:15:29Oh, that's a real saucy question.
00:15:31So, mine might be a little bit, my opinion, opinion on it might be a little bit touchy, right?
00:15:38A lot of the times you hear, when you hear men doing the wrong things, especially towards women, they say,
00:15:46teach your sons to do the right things, teach your sons not to R-A-P-E, teach your sons not how to respect women, blah, blah, blah.
00:15:54So, I sit back and be like, okay, absolutely correct.
00:15:57Teach your sons how to do that.
00:15:58But, then, when I look back and I'm looking at data now, actual data, which is the majority of men that do infractions or step out of bounds or do anything overtly out of time into women,
00:16:12usually come from single mother households.
00:16:16So, when I hear women say, teach your son how to treat women, what I actually need to hear is, ladies, we need to teach our sons how to deal with certain situations as they arise.
00:16:39Because, I say, most of these issues are coming from single mother households, right?
00:16:43So, then, that really comes back to, is it that women are not doing the right choices, not making the right choices based on the type of men that they're choosing to have children with, hence where that vacancy is happening?
00:16:57What's that?
00:16:58I say the Prime Minister getting in trouble for saying what you say.
00:17:01I mean, but, and I can understand why, because I can understand how it could get people upset, but the reality still remains that.
00:17:09You choose the man.
00:17:10It is choices being made.
00:17:12Even after you get pregnant, you have choices.
00:17:15You have choices, even after that happens.
00:17:18But the point still remains that if there's an absence of a man in a household that can potentially lead to someone, a child not having the right foundations to be in a social setting,
00:17:35a lot of women have a lot of accountability to hold for that.
00:17:38What I would say there, right, parents need to teach their children.
00:17:44I agree.
00:17:44I wouldn't say man, woman, parents.
00:17:47When it all comes to men, I am of the opinion that you cannot teach a man how to be a man from a woman.
00:17:54The woman could talk and talk and talk and talk, and I could advocate and say, it's a woman in a household telling the son X, Y, Z, but he is not listening to the woman because he is in need of a male structure in front of his face telling him that.
00:18:11Does he have to be a father?
00:18:12It could just be a male figure.
00:18:14It's a male figure.
00:18:15A male figure.
00:18:16Absolutely agree.
00:18:16So, as much as, you know, we may say women not advocating and trying to teach their children, the son, there are some women who just have that masculine provider.
00:18:24One could make sure the son's in line.
00:18:26And there are some women who just can't do it.
00:18:28Biologically, you need a man to tell you these things as a boy.
00:18:33Right?
00:18:34And if, I'm telling you, when you hear the term, wait until your father reach home, there's a reason why that's a scary term.
00:18:40That's still fair.
00:18:41Right?
00:18:41There's a reason why that's a scary term.
00:18:43Wait until your mother reach home is not well known, even though I and all my friends and my mother still.
00:18:48Right?
00:18:48True.
00:18:48But there's a reason why wait until your father reach home is a scary term.
00:18:52It sets you in line.
00:18:53Well, you do hear wait until your mother reach home, but when you hear that, it's normally wait until your mother reach home to ask if you could go out or to make something fit to eat.
00:19:01Exactly.
00:19:01It's a different, it's a different...
00:19:03So there's a bucket and water concept that speaks on the father represents the bucket, the water represents the water.
00:19:08If you have no bucket, the bucket represents discipline and boundaries.
00:19:11If there's no bucket, the water now can go wherever it wants and find itself in the gangs, etc.
00:19:16If there's no water, you become hard and emotionless because you're just structured in the bucket.
00:19:22Keep evangelizing here today.
00:19:24So the focus here is that we as men need to have more available men to teach these men how to be men.
00:19:34Now, there are men who are going to run off.
00:19:35They're going to realize the pressure of being a man and a provider is extremely hard.
00:19:40Right?
00:19:41And it's just too much when they realize, wait now, I want to have more than a son.
00:19:43But when they realize that this child responds, you respond for this child every single day.
00:19:47They can't switch off.
00:19:48You can't switch off.
00:19:49They have no vacation.
00:19:51It could send you mad and they could run off.
00:19:53So, Kivo, I want us to come back to something Niall said, but I want you to hold on to that point because that is a huge part of the discussion that we're having here today and what the topic is about.
00:20:06Because we are speaking a lot about fatherhood, but I want to specifically address those aspects of fatherhood and parenting.
00:20:15So we spoke about the woman, we spoke about, you know, a bit about fathers and that, you know, a woman can't, you need a man in your life, whether it's an uncle, whether it's a brother, you know, they need, you know, you hear the saying sometimes sheep don't make goats.
00:20:30And, you know, and in this case, it's like, you know, you need a man to be able to address another man with the biology, all sorts of things.
00:20:39But the truth is, we as fathers, me with a seven-year-old, you have a six-year-old and a six-week-year-old, you don't know if you always make any right choice.
00:20:54All you can do is you make the choice that you think is right and you hope for the best, right?
00:20:59But therefore, what you're mauling and influencing another human being, that's scary.
00:21:06That you just don't know whether, I mean, as we talk about modern-day parenting, whether, you know, we don't have corporal punishment again, so you don't put a hand on a child.
00:21:16You know, now you hear about, well, that's a, you know.
00:21:18A little bit to a little bit.
00:21:19No, no.
00:21:20I speak to my son.
00:21:23But now you're hearing about whether you raise your voice, you're supposed to come down to the height of the child because then the child just sees you as a giant.
00:21:30Or they go into a shell and you see all these shows and all these things about it.
00:21:35So you ask yourself what, you know, from what you got growing up and how you now have to parent, what is the right decision?
00:21:45So you only go in from an instinct.
00:21:48And for some fathers, it's too much.
00:21:52But when they bus out, you're now leaving a mother.
00:21:57And I just want to address one more point, Johanse.
00:21:59And say, you're now leaving a mother to raise a child by herself because she's not running away.
00:22:05She's being more, if we use a coin phrase, more manly.
00:22:08I agree.
00:22:10As a result because she's not abandoning a cub, a child, a pup.
00:22:14Right?
00:22:14And when you say that women are countable in this particular situation, it takes two to tango.
00:22:21And in the same way, we could say, well, the woman chose the man.
00:22:25That man, we all know as men, we like chain up.
00:22:29We present something in a quarter period to get what we want to get.
00:22:33And so you've presented yourself in a particular way that attracted the woman.
00:22:38And then you changed as a result of it.
00:22:40And because she is the vessel.
00:22:44She can't run away.
00:22:45She can't run away.
00:22:46But you have.
00:22:48And so the woman having a child as a result of that was left with no choice.
00:22:53The man had a choice.
00:22:54And he took, in certain cases, the easy way out.
00:22:57The cowardly way out.
00:22:58I don't consider those boys men, by the way.
00:23:02Right?
00:23:03Right.
00:23:03No, but you said that the women are accountable for them.
00:23:05No, I said the women should hold themselves accountable.
00:23:07So a lot of the things, especially when there's an absentee father in a household,
00:23:11they must have some sort of accountability.
00:23:13The man could have presented himself falsely.
00:23:16It's still at our responsibility.
00:23:17So what I was going to say, sex.
00:23:21Sex is an adult thing.
00:23:24Notice I say that.
00:23:25Sex is an adult thing.
00:23:25Big man thing.
00:23:26Because even though, yes, sex could be pleasurable, it still could result in a child.
00:23:32So if you're having sex, and it is a serious thing.
00:23:35I mean, it was difficult for me, I remember, hearing that.
00:23:39Because, you know, he's a teenager, you're homeless, you want to experiment.
00:23:42But, I mean, as an adult now, I understand that sex is an adult thing.
00:23:47I remember my wife told me, it had this couple who, every time they had sex,
00:23:51they used to put $100 in unit trust.
00:23:53Right?
00:23:54Because they knew now, of course, it's a couple, so they were being responsible.
00:23:58But it may sound funny, but I understand it.
00:24:01Because.
00:24:02Just in case.
00:24:03Just in case.
00:24:03From CDZ account.
00:24:04Right?
00:24:05I love it.
00:24:05Just in case.
00:24:06Because, one, in my profession now, seeing the results of poor parenting, single parents,
00:24:14and seeing so many children.
00:24:15Right?
00:24:16To be honest, it's heartbreaking at times.
00:24:19I remember when I used to do some work with family courts.
00:24:23And after a while, having so many custody battles and things,
00:24:28I just started asking these parents, I said, why did you all have children?
00:24:34And I, 100% of the answers were selfish reasons.
00:24:39Because, well, I want my mother to get her grandchild before she dead.
00:24:45Right?
00:24:46Well, I can't die alone.
00:24:47I had to have somebody to take care of me.
00:24:49Right?
00:24:50It was all along those lines.
00:24:51Well, I had to have a lawyer and a doctor and a something in the family.
00:24:55Legacy too.
00:24:55I had plenty of land.
00:24:57I had to have X, Y, Z.
00:24:58Now, I'm not saying, not judging whether these reasons are good or bad,
00:25:02but understanding why I have a child.
00:25:05But man also wants to spread the seed.
00:25:07You know, you're telling yourself, listen, I want to have a check.
00:25:09I want to see a mini me.
00:25:11Or I want to see, make sure I'm, you know, my, my, my, I swim in.
00:25:15Well, that's being a father, if you want to see that.
00:25:17And it don't make you a man.
00:25:19Because my, my, the elders, my, let's say, father and grandfather generation,
00:25:24I remember it was a big thing.
00:25:26Well, I have real children.
00:25:27Now, they ain't taking care of none, eh?
00:25:29Correct.
00:25:29Right?
00:25:30Correct.
00:25:30But to just see that, that real children.
00:25:32Yeah, yeah.
00:25:33And to be honest, in my family, it had a lot of men who did that.
00:25:36And if you, if you see the hurt, it caused now generations of hurt.
00:25:42Because we now trying to repair it.
00:25:44Because sometimes when you go to family reunions, no lie.
00:25:47Maybe the last seven years straight, we've met a new person.
00:25:51Now, now the good thing is we all coming together and making it.
00:25:54But they went through a lot of hurt.
00:25:56They didn't know their family, et cetera.
00:25:58So I'm saying whether it's, you spoke about women choosing the right man,
00:26:02but even men knowing the responsibility because we have the seed.
00:26:06That's true.
00:26:06Right?
00:26:07And you had to say fertile ground before.
00:26:09So men choosing wisely the woman and then even choosing who they have sex with.
00:26:16You talk about men chaining up women just to have sex.
00:26:19Imagine you chaining up a woman to have sex and then a child come out of it.
00:26:23Right?
00:26:23Yeah.
00:26:24And that in itself is an insincere thing.
00:26:27But you hear these things you want to say all the time on guys.
00:26:29We know it.
00:26:29You know, just the tip.
00:26:31You understand?
00:26:32You hear all those things.
00:26:33I'm going to pull out.
00:26:35You understand?
00:26:35I promise, baby.
00:26:36I'm going to pull out.
00:26:36I'm going to pull out.
00:26:37Or the woman saying it's okay.
00:26:40You know what I mean?
00:26:40We're going to do something after the heat of the moment.
00:26:42All of these things, as you mentioned about sex, happens at that moment because we're not really thinking that this copulation, this coitus is going to lead or could lead because biologically it could lead to a child pregnancy.
00:27:00And as a result of that, you know, but you're not in the heat of the moment.
00:27:04You're not thinking that all women telling you you're allergic to a condom.
00:27:08Well, you see, one of the things I always say is that, you know, you know, generally men have a problem with regulating their emotions, right?
00:27:17And if in the heat of the moment you don't have emotional regulation, you're going to just go in and do what you have to do because you just want to get what you want to get.
00:27:23And we all know the less blood in your brain, the less thought you have.
00:27:27And if it is done, they have more blood pumping.
00:27:30You're not going to be thinking straight.
00:27:32So it really starts with having proper emotional regulation to know what the consequences are, what the consequences or the potential results can be from doing this action with this person.
00:27:46You know this person, you know how well they are in terms of if they have needs and needs, how they treat each other and what kind of person this person is.
00:27:55The physicality of the person is not enough to see whether or not we can even co-parent.
00:27:59You don't know anything and you still go through and do such.
00:28:04So I just think, yes, if they say you want to have sex, fine.
00:28:07But you need to know at least that if something does occur, that we can at least co-parent to make sure that this child doesn't feel as though we didn't want them to be here.
00:28:17So emotional regulation has to start with the men and the women.
00:28:20But Kivo, doesn't that come in almost nihil?
00:28:24Like, you know, yes, if we have sex, we're going and thinking that there's a possibility of a baby.
00:28:30It's almost like saying, you know, if we go out on a date, you know, it could be marriage.
00:28:35No.
00:28:36It's almost, there are people that think that.
00:28:39You go on a date and this could lead to, you know, the expectation of marriage.
00:28:42But there's still decisions being made along the way until marriage.
00:28:47But sex, though, 32 to 36 will always almost lead to impregnation.
00:28:55But how many people thinking of that, like you said, who has an emotional intelligence?
00:28:58They don't.
00:29:00That's just intelligence.
00:29:01That is just straight intelligence.
00:29:03Nah, nah, nah, nah, because I remember doing some sessions with boys of various ages and girls also.
00:29:13And what you're saying is intelligent.
00:29:15Sometimes you just don't know, you know.
00:29:16Those are children.
00:29:16You said boys and girls.
00:29:18We're talking about adults because we already know that sex is an adult act.
00:29:21No, we're saying it's an adult act.
00:29:22I don't mean it's an adult act.
00:29:23It shouldn't be an adult act.
00:29:24It shouldn't be an adult act.
00:29:26Well, so then what we're saying is that I could be 36 years old and still a child then.
00:29:30Okay, 18 years legally an adult, right?
00:29:34So we're going legal.
00:29:35We're not talking about mental and emotional understanding.
00:29:39So even at 20, 25, you could not understand what ovulation is, when ovulation is.
00:29:46You may not understand what exactly.
00:29:49What I do understand is if I have unprotected sex, there's a potential of a chance.
00:29:54So there are avenues.
00:29:56But not everybody understand that.
00:29:57What?
00:29:58Let me tell you.
00:29:58Listen.
00:29:59If you don't understand that, you're not supposed to be having sex.
00:30:01If you have no money, you're not supposed to be having sex.
00:30:03You're saying that, but that is not what ideally happened.
00:30:06Because I will never forget, there was a 23 and 24-year-old couple.
00:30:10And I remember the guy saying that if she gets pregnant, it's her fault because it's her decision.
00:30:16So he could ejaculate in her.
00:30:19But it's only if she gets pregnant, that's because she wanted to.
00:30:24Right, mentally.
00:30:24And she told that to him.
00:30:25I'm totally serious with that.
00:30:27Ejaculate, ejaculate, ejaculate.
00:30:30Well, behold, yourself.
00:30:31Right.
00:30:32But I say that because that may not be the common, but it have people who are ignorant about sex.
00:30:38Ignorant about the dynamics, the logistics of sex.
00:30:43So even though you think in certain things obvious to you, and you're saying, well, as an adult, as a responsible adult, we'll X, Y, Z, some people don't know, you know.
00:30:52Well, all right.
00:30:53Well, before we go to the break, let me just leave a question that you could ponder as the two fathers in this room, right?
00:30:58At what age do you all think it's appropriate to have a sexual education conversation with your child?
00:31:03Because I never got it when I was a child.
00:31:05I never had that birds and the bees combo with my dad or my mother.
00:31:09I had to figure that out.
00:31:11But Hugh Hefner, bless me.
00:31:13You know, Hugh Hefner taught me sex.
00:31:15Yeah.
00:31:16You understand?
00:31:16So what I hear now is that there's a misconnect of education, education that's properly happening.
00:31:24So when we come back from the break, let me know how you all do without the chickens.
00:31:28Okay.
00:31:29All right.
00:31:29Talk to you all soon.
00:31:30So thank you for staying with us here on Manhood, Johanse, Kivo, Niall.
00:31:47We're talking about the role and influence of modern-day parenting as it pertains specifically to men.
00:31:53And before we enter the break, of course, Niall asked the question from Kivo and myself that, in short, when is the right or appropriate time to have sex ed with your children and specifically to us?
00:32:09I mean, and I must say that I, like you shared, Niall, never really had that birds and the bees conversation.
00:32:18You know, we had Playboy magazines floating around in the school class.
00:32:21You know, it was, giving away some of my age here, it was VHS tape, you know, and you're looking at a little blues.
00:32:32And that's how you're learning.
00:32:33So you were learning based on not so much education, but it was almost educating about sex.
00:32:39Not sex education as in to consequences and all that.
00:32:43It was an education as to how to have sex, which is different.
00:32:48Yeah.
00:32:48And, of course, through the mediums in which I would have gotten, and I'm sure a lot of people would get that, it was more, it was appealing.
00:33:00It was like, hey, you know, you kind of-
00:33:01It was more entertainment.
00:33:02Entertainment.
00:33:03You've been driven to, I want to experience that too.
00:33:06And so the question that you more specifically might have been asking is, maybe when would I have that conversation with my son?
00:33:15And how?
00:33:15And how?
00:33:17I am one of those that, you know, people say, you know, you shouldn't be the best friend with your child.
00:33:22You know, you need to be a father.
00:33:23You should not be.
00:33:24Some people think that.
00:33:25I think you can have a balance.
00:33:27And I can be a best friend with my son in terms of certain activities and other times when he knows I'm his father.
00:33:35But we must always know that there's respect and that trust, another very important thing, so that he can have that conversation with me so that I will know what's happening.
00:33:45But I mightn't always condone it and be happy about it, but I wouldn't berate him for it or, you know, or embarrass him for it.
00:33:56And so, therefore, in that conversation, I would like it to happen organically as to if he mentions about a woman or a girlfriend or anything happening in his life, just to say, hey, son, you know, just make sure that you're really ready, that she's ready.
00:34:12You know, through, I mean, movies show you a lot in those conversations that we could have a lot of segue conversations and just say, you know, be safe.
00:34:23I mean, again, he's seven, 11 years from now, who knows what the environment's going to look like, what, you know, what's going to be out there.
00:34:34You know, we spoke about it in the last, you know, last episode where we spoke about AI.
00:34:38And so, it's just for me to have an open forum, an open dialogue, and something I want to talk about more in this particular segment is for him to make the right choice and all I can do is say what I think is right at the time.
00:34:54It might be the best advice.
00:34:56Well, okay.
00:34:56I think, for me, content is very available in terms of when I was, you know, around 9 or 10, I think my dad had a conversation with me, right?
00:35:06I remember it clearly because hearing that word for the first time and him explaining everything for the first time, it was very loud.
00:35:12So, I remember where I was and what the conversation was about.
00:35:16But I only had two forms of media, right?
00:35:19I had, well, I had paper media, I had TV, and I had radio, right?
00:35:23And in that time, everything was very well covered for you to not know what sex is and remain innocent.
00:35:31Now, a child can get information like that at four years old on a laptop.
00:35:34If they scroll too fast, they'll find out for themselves.
00:35:37Let me ask you something.
00:35:40In there, when you were having that conversation, did you feel any kind of way?
00:35:44Was it odd?
00:35:45Was it awkward?
00:35:46It was awkward because it's not something that you ever heard before.
00:35:49And for me, it kind of scared me into remaining celibate for a period of time, you know?
00:35:54Like when you, everybody, I was like, dog, based on what my father told me, let me just not get into that right now.
00:36:00Let me pat down my boy, right?
00:36:03So, that kept me away.
00:36:04That conversation kept me away for a good while.
00:36:06And it also helped me understand, like, stepping back and looking at what the consequences were,
00:36:14why probably he had to say it like that because it was a real aggressive conversation.
00:36:19And I think now, because content is so easily available, a child can teach themselves by five years old, right?
00:36:27In terms of being on the wrong phone and seeing everything.
00:36:30So, I think when they are at the age of reason and make the right decisions, teach them about good touch and bad touch as early as possible.
00:36:41And then segue in with segments of the conversation.
00:36:44Because there are some things you can't just give a child at seven, everything one time.
00:36:47So, this is what a rose foul is.
00:36:48You understand?
00:36:49Right, so you can't do that at seven.
00:36:52So, starting initially and then probably when I get to 11, we have another conversation and take it in parts.
00:36:58So, when is all in your music as well?
00:37:01I just spoke about content.
00:37:02All in your music where they tell you, go out and...
00:37:05Well, just now, let me jump in here.
00:37:08Let me jump in here.
00:37:09So, I'm going on a little bit of Robert, a little bit of Keevan, and I'm coming with some of my own experience.
00:37:14What are you saying about you have that relationship with your son?
00:37:18You know, you're striking the balance between your best friend and father, right?
00:37:22And then what you're saying about your father giving me the information, what I would add there is that, now, I am not a biological father.
00:37:31But I have defined myself as a professional father because I have many clients who come from a single parent home and is boys with their mom.
00:37:40And as a result, I'm the male figure in their life.
00:37:43And sometimes mom would bring the boy and say, well, you know, it's better he have the conversation with that man, right?
00:37:48So, even from that point of view.
00:37:49So, one, having that relationship with your son is important because even if you're not kind of marking the years, he will feel comfortable enough to come and ask you a question, right?
00:38:02And then having the right information is important because even before having the conversation, you ought to be comfortable to have that conversation with your son.
00:38:09And this is what I'm talking about.
00:38:11Maybe that's why...
00:38:12No, you can't...
00:38:12Sorry, because...
00:38:13I'm just saying that maybe that's why my dad and I never had the conversation.
00:38:17Maybe that's why I want it to happen as, you know, we're having discussions and it's happening around and...
00:38:24But I don't know, because I haven't experienced that and how it's delivered, I don't know whether I may feel awkward in having that conversation with my son.
00:38:35And then the other thing is, by having the conversation, you don't want to put the fear of God in them with regards to it because...
00:38:41Well, maybe it should.
00:38:43But while you do, you know, it's like holding your child back from something or telling them they can't eat something and the moment they go out and get a taste, they love it.
00:38:48Well, it's not fair, you know, you just go action-reaction.
00:38:52So, son, you know, if you have sex, sex is what creates that child.
00:38:57If you decide...
00:38:58I mean, depending on the age, depending on who the question asks.
00:39:00But this is it then.
00:39:01So, when is that right age?
00:39:02Because, you know, they have these things about grass on the pitch and, you know, all of these...
00:39:08All these phrases when people come into puberty, right?
00:39:12And at that age, so you're pre-puberty basing, puberty at pre-bubescence or what was, I can't remember the term, at 10 and 11 and things like that.
00:39:23Some even younger.
00:39:24So, at what point are you then having that conversation?
00:39:27Because you might tell yourself, okay, at 16 or 18, are you going to have this conversation and action happening before that?
00:39:32So, this is the answer your question.
00:39:33Good touch, bad touch.
00:39:34This is the answer your question earlier.
00:39:36I remember, Robert, you were expressing concern about whether or not a father would know if he's correct in what he's telling his child, whether he's a boy or a girl.
00:39:45And we know he'd have no manual for parenting.
00:39:48And what I've realized, a father, and I've seen this so many times I could say it emphatically, any father who is investing in his child, whether it is their witty mother or not, if you're paying attention, he is no.
00:40:01So, I'm not giving a, it's better at five, it's better at six, it's better at eight.
00:40:06A father who is really invested in his child will know.
00:40:10So, even if he doesn't necessarily see anything from the child, let's say he hear a conversation with his friends.
00:40:15He's like, ah, they're starting to talk about this.
00:40:17Maybe you need to talk about this.
00:40:18Or, I notice my son moving a certain way.
00:40:20I notice he got an erection and he was feeling awkward about it.
00:40:24If a father is paying attention, he's no.
00:40:27So, I'm putting that out, they have no exact science for that.
00:40:31And a father, so any father too, and I would add, there are many times fathers bring their children to me.
00:40:38And then, after an assessment, me and the father are talking.
00:40:42And many times, what I say is confirmation for the father.
00:40:46He already knew, but he was unsure.
00:40:49And that has always been a good thing to me because it shows me the father paying attention.
00:40:53And even the fact that he's bringing his son to our profession, I mean, that he even invested in the child.
00:40:59So, I say that because sometimes parents would be worried about, you know, when to do this and when not to do this.
00:41:06And, I mean, to be honest, I don't know no perfect parents, but I know sincere parents.
00:41:10And when you're coming from a sincere place, when you're paying attention, there's almost no time, something different, something off.
00:41:18And I should have this kind of conversation with my son.
00:41:20So, Niall, I want to, I'm going to give way.
00:41:25I just want to be able to say that we're speaking a lot about fathers.
00:41:30I mean, this is manhood after all and fatherhood.
00:41:32But I want to incite the provocateur a little bit, right, to say that the topic is the role and influence of modern-day parenting.
00:41:45And, yes, we're speaking about men, but also within that is not just our responsibilities.
00:41:51It's what do we expect as fathers from the mother for our children as a role because we're talking about parenting, right?
00:41:59What is our expectation from the mothers raising children, our children as well, or, you know, and also from that perspective outside of that,
00:42:12what maybe the mothers are expecting of the father and not seeing or could complement us for?
00:42:19That's actually a good question.
00:42:20I don't know why you chose me to target that towards seeing that I'm one who don't have any kids.
00:42:25But I feel like there's a proper moment now where I could now say men have a lot of accountability to take, you know, a lot.
00:42:32No, Niall, take up the challenge now.
00:42:34Even though he's not a father yet, what would you expect from your wife who would be a girlfriend who's a mother?
00:42:41I mean, it depends.
00:42:44Again, what I expect from my wife, next thing the wife...
00:42:46In relation to your child.
00:42:48Next thing the woman that I end up with is someone where I just only want a child for more.
00:42:53That's the conversation I went into the marriage with.
00:42:55Hey, I don't really need much from you.
00:42:58I already have everything that I could buy all the other support staff needed.
00:43:03I could buy a babysitter.
00:43:05Sorry, let me...
00:43:06I could hire a babysitter, hire a house cleaner, hire everybody else.
00:43:10You did for a surrogate?
00:43:12I just might need some...
00:43:13I need an oven to put my muffins in, you know, and that might be the conversation.
00:43:18In that case, I just needed to stay healthy, keep peace in my mind, you know, don't aggravate me too much,
00:43:24make sure the housekeeper's doing or the babysitter's doing what they're supposed to do.
00:43:28That might be the conversation.
00:43:30Or it might be somebody who I, you know, very much into legacy.
00:43:34I want 10 kids, by the way, or anybody out there who want that.
00:43:38Right?
00:43:38So I want a big family, right?
00:43:40Well, I say all the time, you start with one.
00:43:44And I'm like, I could...
00:43:45The reason why you're saying that is because more than likely is you're feeling overwhelmed with work and time and blah, blah, blah.
00:43:52That's the most...
00:43:52That's the major thing that I've seen people be like, you only need to start with one.
00:43:56But if I say if money is not an issue, right?
00:43:59Money is not an issue.
00:44:00After that is just your time.
00:44:03And if I do have to sell my time to make money, then I could invest all my time in being a father, then I could have as many kids as I want because I don't have that.
00:44:13You understand what I'm saying?
00:44:13So going back to the question that you asked and me to attempt, right?
00:44:18They still have accountability that men need to have in the choices of women that they're choosing because a lot of the times men is going just for the jam.
00:44:26I just want a jam and then a lot...
00:44:28And then oopsie daisy.
00:44:29I find that I hardly hear about planned parenting anymore.
00:44:32They have nobody planning parenting.
00:44:35So, and I take your point, but I just want to clarify something because you've said that.
00:44:41You've said this before.
00:44:42And yes, if finance is not an issue, if you could hire whoever you want, you could, you know, in your eyes, you're saying, of course, I can have as many children as I want, right?
00:44:53Because biology, yeah, of course, I could have sex with several different women.
00:44:57It could be one woman.
00:44:58You could have 10, 12, 13, however many children.
00:45:00But what you're taking away from the fact that we spoke with a father and a dad is one key word, responsibility.
00:45:07So having money and being responsible is two different things because you have a responsibility as a father to be present in that person, that child's life.
00:45:16And that's not just time because can you, can you, with 10 children at that particular, you know, and if it, and are they, are they really there?
00:45:28Yes, in all of their lives.
00:45:30Yes, it can be done if you have the time to do it.
00:45:34Niall, I'm glad you answered the question still because you see how even though, you see how intentional he was about what it is?
00:45:42That is the important part because everybody's relationship different, right?
00:45:46Everybody's marriage different.
00:45:47You would want your, everybody would want their wives to do different things, but being intentional about it.
00:45:53So if you know, here it is, I have all the money, I have the time, I just want you to make the child.
00:45:58You're letting your wife know.
00:45:59If you say, I don't want you to work, I want you to stay home, I want you to take care of the child.
00:46:03That is what it is.
00:46:04If you say, I want you to, both are we working, both are we bringing the money, we hiring our babysitter, wherever it is.
00:46:09But having that intention before, and I think is an important part.
00:46:14I want to shake this thing up.
00:46:15I want to shake this thing up because I don't want to end with us beating around the bush.
00:46:19We've all had unprotected sex, right?
00:46:22Now, in that, have we had the conversation prior to that with the girlfriend or, you know, to say, you know, she had the conversation with you to say, hey, you know, are you willing to be a parent?
00:46:40Are you willing to be a daddy? Not call you a daddy or papi, you know, we're not talking about that.
00:46:45We're saying to have that conversation, would that be our vibes killer?
00:46:49Let's be honest.
00:46:50So we're not doing it.
00:46:52We're not emotionally there.
00:46:55But kill the vibes.
00:46:55It's okay to kill the vibes.
00:46:57We're not talking about what we should be doing.
00:46:58We're talking about what is happening.
00:46:59Well, what I could tell you from my experience is that I am not going in raw with anybody who I can't have a oopsie-daisy with.
00:47:08So you're already telling yourself, now, now you want 10 children, so you know you want the 10 children.
00:47:13So if it happens, that oopsie-daisy is out.
00:47:15I'm not just going to be wild with it.
00:47:16I'm not just flinging it all over the place.
00:47:19But my internal monologue is this woman that I'm sleeping with unprotected.
00:47:23If a child was to be a result of this situation, I am okay with it.
00:47:29I can move forward.
00:47:31That's no, because you want 10 children.
00:47:32I'm talking about in your younger days.
00:47:34In my younger days, I wasn't having unprotected sex.
00:47:38I was an adult.
00:47:40You know, I had my fears of what could happen, and I applied my intelligence to this situation.
00:47:48I was like, you know what?
00:47:49Let me strap up, because I don't want children.
00:47:51But Kiko, I know the same wasn't here.
00:47:53You can't tell me you were doing the same thing.
00:47:56Let's go.
00:47:56Let's be honest.
00:47:56What do you mean the same wasn't there?
00:47:58Unprotected.
00:47:58We're talking, man.
00:48:00You ever had a pregnancy, okay?
00:48:02Yeah, of course.
00:48:03This is what I talk about.
00:48:04Let's talk real.
00:48:04You ever had someone show your ass for you?
00:48:06No.
00:48:07You never had somebody show your ass for you?
00:48:09You ever had someone show your ass for you?
00:48:10You say not that you know of.
00:48:11No, no, no.
00:48:13So we've...
00:48:14Okay.
00:48:16Okay, so let me go to what I'm saying.
00:48:18You're right.
00:48:19You're saying if it's our vibe, scale up.
00:48:20For me, times I've had unprotected sex,
00:48:23because I was mindful of it
00:48:25because I was like,
00:48:26I don't want...
00:48:27If it's somebody who,
00:48:28I don't want to have a child at all.
00:48:30It wouldn't...
00:48:30I really don't want to.
00:48:31There are some people, you know what?
00:48:33If you have a child,
00:48:34you know, it's not the end of the world, right?
00:48:35No, miscarriage is different to somebody
00:48:37having an abortion.
00:48:38You can't...
00:48:39I'm just saying,
00:48:40your question was very specific.
00:48:42No, it was that.
00:48:43It was...
00:48:44Right.
00:48:44But I was being irresponsible.
00:48:48And I could say that
00:48:49because even if I...
00:48:51Because I wasn't financially ready, right?
00:48:54Even though I could have said,
00:48:55well, I didn't mind
00:48:56because I have a connection with this person,
00:48:58but I wasn't ready for it financially.
00:49:03And let me say,
00:49:04at those times,
00:49:04I didn't have my own place, right?
00:49:07But at least my own home.
00:49:09So, I could say for me,
00:49:11I was taking a chance.
00:49:13And I know many men
00:49:14take a chance.
00:49:16And when you're taking a chance,
00:49:18the truth is,
00:49:19you're not only taking a chance
00:49:20with your life,
00:49:21you're taking a chance with her life,
00:49:22and then you're taking a chance
00:49:23with the possible child life.
00:49:25So, I understand what you're saying.
00:49:27And I'm not saying that
00:49:28we're sitting high and mighty
00:49:30because we know better now.
00:49:32But I understand what you're saying.
00:49:34But somewhere along the line,
00:49:36even though we men
00:49:39have made mistakes in the past,
00:49:40we are doing our best
00:49:42to impart the knowledge now
00:49:43so that it won't be made in the future.
00:49:45And I could understand why
00:49:47traditional households
00:49:49was the way it was
00:49:50where sometimes they arranged marriage.
00:49:51I could understand it.
00:49:53I could understand why
00:49:54the made people get married early.
00:49:56I could understand
00:49:57why things were a specific kind of way
00:49:59like women were shamed
00:50:01for being when there's not virgins
00:50:03because most of us humans,
00:50:06we're not responsible.
00:50:07And we need some kind of guidance.
00:50:09So, I could tie that back
00:50:11into the role of a man
00:50:12and the father in a household
00:50:15is to put in that structure.
00:50:17Every man knows the structure.
00:50:19It may not be the same thing
00:50:20for Kivo and I,
00:50:21but you know the structure.
00:50:22You want your household to be in.
00:50:25And it's important
00:50:25that you're intentional with it
00:50:27and also that you don't compromise with it.
00:50:29Because I had one thing
00:50:31and then you come in.
00:50:33When I work with fathers,
00:50:35and remember I said
00:50:35a lot of times
00:50:36what I tell the fathers
00:50:37is confirmation for them
00:50:38that they already know
00:50:39many of these things.
00:50:40My next question is always,
00:50:42without fail,
00:50:43you and the mother
00:50:44are on the same page
00:50:44and 90% of the times it's not.
00:50:47And that is the problem.
00:50:48And this is what I ask
00:50:48and I still,
00:50:49I said it from the start
00:50:50of this segment.
00:50:51I still want to know
00:50:53what is...
00:50:53What do you expect
00:50:53from the wife?
00:50:55What do you expect?
00:50:56Right.
00:50:57So, you know,
00:50:59if you have two visions
00:51:01in a household,
00:51:02they call that die vision.
00:51:04Right?
00:51:05And unless you're on the same page
00:51:07as Johansson would have said,
00:51:09you're going to have
00:51:10parenting being done
00:51:12in two different ways
00:51:13in the same household.
00:51:15We're just going to split the child
00:51:16in terms of,
00:51:17well, I can go by mommy
00:51:18and get this
00:51:18and go by daddy and get it.
00:51:19We all went through that.
00:51:20Exactly.
00:51:21So where's the united front
00:51:23in terms of
00:51:23what does my child
00:51:25eat on a morning?
00:51:26How,
00:51:27what kind of table manners
00:51:28as we, you know,
00:51:30instill.
00:51:31What time to go to sleep?
00:51:32All these things.
00:51:33You can't,
00:51:34I can't hear from my wife,
00:51:36oh, God,
00:51:36give him my next thing.
00:51:37No.
00:51:38I don't say no already.
00:51:39And if the mother says no,
00:51:41and I can't come and say,
00:51:42oh, God,
00:51:42the boy is a boy.
00:51:43No.
00:51:43It can't work like that.
00:51:45So the expectation...
00:51:45Not in front of the child anyway.
00:51:47Exactly.
00:51:47Exactly.
00:51:48So the expectation
00:51:49is that when
00:51:50we're in front of the child,
00:51:52we are united front.
00:51:53All the other things
00:51:54in terms of,
00:51:55I want my wife
00:51:56to cook on her morning,
00:51:57all them things don't matter.
00:51:58What I need from you
00:52:00is that we on the same page
00:52:02and if I talk,
00:52:03we both agree.
00:52:04When you talk,
00:52:05I'm on your side.
00:52:06If we go in the bed
00:52:07ourselves and I say,
00:52:08you know,
00:52:08we should have to do that
00:52:09different next time,
00:52:10then we go there
00:52:11because you don't want that split.
00:52:12But is it that
00:52:13between you and your wife,
00:52:15you all decide
00:52:15who is the disciplinarian
00:52:17in any situation?
00:52:18It happens.
00:52:19It happens.
00:52:19It happens.
00:52:20It happens.
00:52:20It happens.
00:52:21Good cop, bad cop.
00:52:22Just mainly is used.
00:52:24They are man
00:52:26in terms of
00:52:27based on the situation
00:52:28sometimes.
00:52:29But, you know,
00:52:30my wife can call me now
00:52:31and say,
00:52:32look,
00:52:32they're on the phone.
00:52:33Boom.
00:52:33Everything back to normal.
00:52:35Right?
00:52:35Yeah.
00:52:35So I'm the disciplinarian.
00:52:37I don't mind being that.
00:52:38But it's not that
00:52:39You're actually the bad guy
00:52:40disciplinarian.
00:52:40Yeah, yeah.
00:52:41I can be the bad guy.
00:52:42It's not,
00:52:43we hear that term bandit
00:52:45about all.
00:52:45It's not bad,
00:52:46good cop,
00:52:46bad cop.
00:52:47It's just that
00:52:47a child is very smart.
00:52:50Children are very,
00:52:51very smart.
00:52:52And they know
00:52:53who they can get away
00:52:54with something,
00:52:55who they can get away
00:52:57with what
00:52:58and who they can't.
00:52:59And so the father
00:53:00generally,
00:53:01the voice and all
00:53:02the rest of it,
00:53:02they know,
00:53:03hey,
00:53:03I can't,
00:53:04I can't do this.
00:53:06Yeah.
00:53:06So they know
00:53:07who to play.
00:53:08Yeah.
00:53:10And more so,
00:53:12in these relationships,
00:53:14what you'll hear is
00:53:14the woman in front
00:53:16of the child sometimes,
00:53:17oh God, baby,
00:53:18let him have another one now.
00:53:19Or let me just give him
00:53:20a little bit more now.
00:53:21All of these things,
00:53:22even though it's done
00:53:23in a very nice
00:53:24and respectful way,
00:53:26it is still sending
00:53:27a different message.
00:53:28Yeah.
00:53:29That to that child
00:53:30it's computing,
00:53:30ah boy,
00:53:31I could divide and conquer.
00:53:33I could still get it
00:53:34for mom,
00:53:35or mom look,
00:53:35mom begging for me.
00:53:36So what Kivo is saying
00:53:38is that even though
00:53:40we don't agree
00:53:40at that point,
00:53:41even if it's a text message,
00:53:43even if you say
00:53:44I could have a word with you,
00:53:45whatever the case may be,
00:53:46it needs to be
00:53:48a united front.
00:53:49So at that point
00:53:50you could then come back
00:53:51and say,
00:53:51you know what,
00:53:52if you do so and so,
00:53:54I'll give you another cookie.
00:53:56It must still come
00:53:56from the same source.
00:53:58So my mother and I
00:53:59spoke about it
00:53:59and we have agreed.
00:54:01Right?
00:54:02So there's a clip
00:54:03on social media
00:54:04where there was a mother
00:54:06who had a son before
00:54:07and she married somebody.
00:54:09And he was telling
00:54:10the young buddy
00:54:11which is playing
00:54:11PlayStation
00:54:11and he said,
00:54:13do your homework,
00:54:13it's seven o'clock.
00:54:14And he said,
00:54:15well,
00:54:15I want to finish this game.
00:54:16The wife was in the kitchen
00:54:17and said,
00:54:18there's just one more game.
00:54:19And he kept lamenting,
00:54:20it's seven o'clock.
00:54:21He pulled out everything,
00:54:23threw it in the bin,
00:54:24the PlayStation,
00:54:25pour milk on it
00:54:25and said,
00:54:26do it now.
00:54:27And the wife was like,
00:54:28what's this?
00:54:29But for her,
00:54:31for him,
00:54:31he's like,
00:54:32I already spoke
00:54:33and seven o'clock
00:54:34is the time for homework.
00:54:36You can't come
00:54:36and tell me now,
00:54:38hey,
00:54:38is this just a game?
00:54:39No.
00:54:40So then what do
00:54:41you have me here for?
00:54:42Right?
00:54:42So this is where I think
00:54:44the whole aspect
00:54:45of rules and responsibilities,
00:54:47there are some things
00:54:47that are now
00:54:49a little gray,
00:54:50but there are some things
00:54:51that just,
00:54:52listen,
00:54:53as a man of the house,
00:54:54when I speak
00:54:55discipline-wise,
00:54:56you have to move.
00:54:58Right?
00:54:58And I can't get that back
00:54:59talk from the other person
00:55:01who's supposed to be
00:55:01next to me
00:55:02supporting the
00:55:03So the expectation
00:55:05in that situation
00:55:06is that you'd want your wife
00:55:07to have the father
00:55:08as a leader
00:55:09in the household
00:55:10in those instances.
00:55:12And,
00:55:12well,
00:55:12again,
00:55:14it is primarily
00:55:15seen like that,
00:55:16but it could be,
00:55:17you know,
00:55:17for example,
00:55:18at home,
00:55:20Abigail,
00:55:21you know,
00:55:21she would say
00:55:22something with Noah
00:55:23and I will support that.
00:55:24I will say,
00:55:24Noah,
00:55:25you heard your mother
00:55:25and reinforce
00:55:27the fact that,
00:55:29listen,
00:55:30right?
00:55:30But it can't be
00:55:30that if I'm saying
00:55:31something to Noah
00:55:33at that point
00:55:33that Abigail comes
00:55:35and says,
00:55:36oh God,
00:55:37just let him
00:55:37or,
00:55:38you know,
00:55:38you could just
00:55:39have one more
00:55:39or goes and
00:55:40pours him more
00:55:41after I've said no
00:55:42because it sends
00:55:44a signal to the child.
00:55:45So it's not necessarily
00:55:46a leader or follower
00:55:47who says,
00:55:47best being united.
00:55:48Yes.
00:55:49And whoever takes
00:55:50the front,
00:55:51it's just a matter
00:55:51of sharing it
00:55:52in front of the child
00:55:53or children
00:55:54and then if you
00:55:55have a disagreement,
00:55:56you either go away
00:55:57and discuss it
00:55:57and the person
00:55:58who's made the comment,
00:56:00so if I say,
00:56:01no more juice,
00:56:02right now,
00:56:03you've had enough,
00:56:05you know,
00:56:05time to read
00:56:06or whatever the case may be.
00:56:07If we go away
00:56:08and discuss it
00:56:09and she comes
00:56:09and says,
00:56:10hey,
00:56:10listen,
00:56:10he had a lot
00:56:11of swimming,
00:56:11he's really thirsty,
00:56:12I could then come
00:56:13and say,
00:56:13hey,
00:56:13you know what,
00:56:14okay,
00:56:15you know,
00:56:16if you read that page,
00:56:17we'll get some more juice.
00:56:18It's coming from
00:56:18the same person
00:56:19who said no.
00:56:21Gotcha.
00:56:22Right?
00:56:22As opposed to,
00:56:23oh God,
00:56:24you know,
00:56:24he just came from swimming,
00:56:25give him a bit more.
00:56:27Those are the different things
00:56:28because again,
00:56:29to the child,
00:56:30it's sending different signals.
00:56:31But again,
00:56:33really rich conversation
00:56:35and we've extended
00:56:37this segment
00:56:37specifically
00:56:38to really get into
00:56:40the nuts and bolts
00:56:41of this thing
00:56:43called parenting,
00:56:44which we,
00:56:45you know,
00:56:45we don't have the answers.
00:56:48But certainly,
00:56:48we have the answers,
00:56:49but it may not be
00:56:51always the perfect answers.
00:56:53And,
00:56:54see like what he did there?
00:56:55If you did that
00:56:56in front of,
00:56:57you know,
00:56:58where he said no,
00:56:59you know,
00:56:59something he says.
00:57:01Like that,
00:57:01the perfect example,
00:57:02right?
00:57:02My apologies,
00:57:03my apologies.
00:57:04You know,
00:57:04I just want to say that
00:57:05one of the things
00:57:08that I really admire
00:57:09is a sincere father.
00:57:12Right?
00:57:13I didn't say perfect,
00:57:14I didn't say the best
00:57:15in the world,
00:57:16but a sincere father.
00:57:17A father who really want
00:57:19to take care of his child,
00:57:20whether you have
00:57:21a million dollars
00:57:21or ten dollars.
00:57:23And I'm putting that out there
00:57:24because even fathers watching
00:57:26or men who want
00:57:27to be fathers
00:57:28is a serious decision.
00:57:30It's an adult decision.
00:57:32So,
00:57:33before you even
00:57:34have the decision,
00:57:35make the decision
00:57:36to have sex,
00:57:37know who you're even
00:57:38having sex with.
00:57:39If you even,
00:57:39that this person
00:57:40want to be
00:57:41the mother of your child.
00:57:42And then,
00:57:43whenever you are a father,
00:57:45know that
00:57:46it wouldn't be perfect,
00:57:47but once you're sincere
00:57:48and you really have
00:57:49the best interest
00:57:50of that child at hand,
00:57:51you're good,
00:57:52you know.
00:57:52Because,
00:57:53I'll give one quick story.
00:57:54I remember,
00:57:55in a custody battle,
00:57:56the mom was blocking
00:57:58the father
00:57:58from seeing the child.
00:58:00And the father would
00:58:01go every weekend
00:58:03just by the gate
00:58:04to see the child.
00:58:06And his interaction
00:58:07with the child
00:58:07would be
00:58:08the child looking
00:58:09out the window
00:58:09and he would be
00:58:11by the gate.
00:58:12And he did that
00:58:12for almost eight years.
00:58:14And after that,
00:58:15when the child was 18,
00:58:16the child never forget.
00:58:18The child didn't get
00:58:18no gifts,
00:58:19didn't get no nothing,
00:58:19you know.
00:58:20But every Sunday,
00:58:21I knew my father
00:58:21was there now.
00:58:22So,
00:58:23the child built trust
00:58:25with her father,
00:58:25even had no conversation
00:58:26just by looking.
00:58:28So,
00:58:28I draw that reference,
00:58:30the importance
00:58:30of being intentional,
00:58:32being sincere,
00:58:32and then being consistent.
00:58:34Consistent.
00:58:34One thing,
00:58:38you know,
00:58:38my wife taught me
00:58:39a valuable lesson
00:58:40the other day
00:58:40because I was struggling
00:58:41with managing my time
00:58:43because I know
00:58:43Kivo is doing everything.
00:58:45And she said,
00:58:46when you go to the grocery,
00:58:49you can't bring
00:58:49all the bags inside
00:58:50one time.
00:58:51You can try,
00:58:52right?
00:58:53But if you do it,
00:58:54you will damage yourself.
00:58:55Right?
00:58:55So,
00:58:56I thought I might be
00:58:56enough for that lesson.
00:58:58And I realized
00:59:00that there are points
00:59:01in time
00:59:02where I may not
00:59:03be present
00:59:04because I'm outside
00:59:05bringing back the bread.
00:59:07Right?
00:59:07But when I am,
00:59:09don't be present
00:59:11and absent.
00:59:11Meaning,
00:59:12and you study it.
00:59:14No.
00:59:15Make sure you invest it
00:59:16because even my mom,
00:59:18my mom knows that
00:59:19if I'm not,
00:59:20if I'm lying,
00:59:22there's a certain
00:59:23facial expression
00:59:24that I have
00:59:24because she knows
00:59:25my face
00:59:26and she looks for my face
00:59:27since I've been a child.
00:59:28So,
00:59:29that's what kind of father
00:59:30you need to be.
00:59:31When you are there now
00:59:32and you're spending time
00:59:33make sure you're looking
00:59:35at this child
00:59:3524-7
00:59:36so that you're studying
00:59:38their quirks
00:59:39and you could predict
00:59:40that there was one point
00:59:41that I went to the grocery
00:59:41and I realized,
00:59:42wait now,
00:59:43you turn left
00:59:43and I know where you're going.
00:59:44I say don't go inside it.
00:59:45I already know
00:59:46where you're going for
00:59:47because you're invested.
00:59:48So,
00:59:49it's important for you
00:59:50to know that,
00:59:51listen,
00:59:51don't be hard on yourself.
00:59:52You're carrying all the groceries
00:59:53inside sometimes.
00:59:54Bring the important things inside
00:59:56but make sure you bring
00:59:57everything outside,
00:59:59inside.
00:59:59And whenever you're there,
01:00:01hold on to what,
01:00:02if this is making money time,
01:00:04hold on to it,
01:00:05bring it inside.
01:00:06If it's children time,
01:00:07hold on to it.
01:00:08Don't study
01:00:08why you're brought inside
01:00:10or why you still have
01:00:10to bring inside
01:00:10with other things in your hand.
01:00:12So,
01:00:12if you're with the child,
01:00:14make sure you're invested.
01:00:15That was actually really good.
01:00:17I go like,
01:00:17that's actually really good.
01:00:18I might bring it on.
01:00:20Dana,
01:00:20we're liking that one.
01:00:22We're liking that one.
01:00:22That one was really deep.
01:00:25And to,
01:00:26you know,
01:00:27when Johan say,
01:00:28I mean,
01:00:28I know we joke about it
01:00:29all the time,
01:00:30when he spoke about
01:00:30in his disagreement,
01:00:32you know,
01:00:33again,
01:00:33I just want to reiterate,
01:00:34you know,
01:00:34we don't ask
01:00:36or we don't have
01:00:37all the answers,
01:00:38but as a friend of mine said,
01:00:40you know,
01:00:40but we ask a couple
01:00:41of good questions.
01:00:43And that is,
01:00:45in that sense,
01:00:46that's the way
01:00:46I try to be a parent
01:00:47to my son
01:00:49and the way
01:00:51I would look at it.
01:00:52As you spoke about,
01:00:53you know,
01:00:53give away signs,
01:00:54and my dad,
01:00:55when he was telling,
01:00:56you know,
01:00:56telling an untruth,
01:00:57his lip would always quiver.
01:00:59That's how a lip like that.
01:01:00And he knew that,
01:01:01but he knew
01:01:02when he was doing it
01:01:03and that we knew it
01:01:04and it made it fun.
01:01:06But I really take your point,
01:01:08Kivo,
01:01:09and one of the really,
01:01:10it's really important
01:01:11that,
01:01:12you know,
01:01:12we're not here
01:01:13for a long time,
01:01:14but,
01:01:14you know,
01:01:14you can be there
01:01:15for a good time
01:01:15and therefore it's important
01:01:16for that moment
01:01:17to really invest.
01:01:19If I decide
01:01:20I'm in front of you
01:01:21and I'm speaking to you,
01:01:22I'm not only observing,
01:01:23but I'm giving you
01:01:25what I can,
01:01:26which is more than
01:01:26any finance,
01:01:27but I'm giving you
01:01:28my time
01:01:28and these are memories
01:01:30that we're building.
01:01:31And that's more important
01:01:32than anything else
01:01:33other than,
01:01:35you know,
01:01:35I'm here,
01:01:36I'm sitting down
01:01:37because,
01:01:38you know,
01:01:38there's that other saying,
01:01:39I don't really like my sayings,
01:01:41you know,
01:01:41you can be alone
01:01:43in a crowded space
01:01:44and you can be sat down
01:01:45with your child
01:01:46and on your phone
01:01:47on a device
01:01:49watching TV,
01:01:50you know,
01:01:51even sitting down
01:01:51with a child
01:01:51watching TV,
01:01:52you're still disconnected
01:01:53because you're both
01:01:54in an environment
01:01:55looking at something
01:01:56but you're not interacting.
01:01:58Yeah.
01:01:58You know,
01:01:58there's that moment
01:01:59you're going to look back
01:02:00and say,
01:02:00hey,
01:02:00remember that good movie
01:02:01we watched?
01:02:02Yeah.
01:02:02You know,
01:02:02so,
01:02:03you know,
01:02:04for me,
01:02:04it's taking my son,
01:02:06as you said about
01:02:06bringing things inside,
01:02:08for me,
01:02:08my bonding is taking him outside
01:02:10and being away
01:02:12from the devices,
01:02:13making sure I'm connecting
01:02:14in a way
01:02:14that's really meaningful,
01:02:16impactful,
01:02:17specific,
01:02:19and that is only
01:02:20father and son time.
01:02:24And so,
01:02:25it comes down
01:02:25to the fear
01:02:26which I have
01:02:27and I'm sure
01:02:27maybe a couple of you have
01:02:29of am I making
01:02:30the right choice?
01:02:31I don't know
01:02:32but it's right for me
01:02:33and I hope it's right
01:02:36for him
01:02:36and that
01:02:37as both parents
01:02:39that we raise
01:02:41someone that
01:02:42we're both proud of
01:02:43and that makes
01:02:44an impact
01:02:45in society
01:02:46and more importantly
01:02:48if I have one message
01:02:49to anyone out there
01:02:50as a father
01:02:51is regardless
01:02:53of the situation
01:02:54as Johansi shared
01:02:55in a story
01:02:56is be present
01:02:57in whatever capacity
01:02:58you can.
01:03:00The best as you can.
01:03:01My last takeaway
01:03:04I'll leave it
01:03:04with an ethical question
01:03:05that I'll pose
01:03:06to you guys
01:03:07and to the people
01:03:07at home.
01:03:08Alright?
01:03:09The question is
01:03:10if a woman
01:03:11has the deciding factor
01:03:14whether or not
01:03:15she could be a mother
01:03:16or not
01:03:17she has that choice
01:03:18right?
01:03:18When she does get pregnant
01:03:20she could choose
01:03:20a man
01:03:22don't necessarily
01:03:23have that choice.
01:03:24So the question is
01:03:25should a man
01:03:25be able to
01:03:26if it's a woman
01:03:27could decide
01:03:28to be a mother
01:03:28should a man
01:03:30have the ability
01:03:31to say
01:03:32I want to be present
01:03:33in his child's life
01:03:34or not?
01:03:36You know what I'm saying?
01:03:37Should he be able
01:03:38to say that?
01:03:39We're leaving that
01:03:40We're just leaving that
01:03:42to float out there.
01:03:43That's a whole other
01:03:44It's for the conversation
01:03:46get the juices flowing.
01:03:48I die for the next
01:03:50next episode of Manhood
01:03:51So before we close
01:03:52I want to know
01:03:53Kivo if you have anything
01:03:55because I mean
01:03:55Dana clearly
01:03:56have some real good
01:03:56insightful pieces there
01:03:58I wonder if you have
01:03:59anything that you may
01:04:00want to leave
01:04:00with us with on Manhood
01:04:02It just stems
01:04:03on the last point
01:04:03I made
01:04:04I think
01:04:04when you hear
01:04:06the word privilege
01:04:06you think about
01:04:07finance all the time
01:04:08but it was a privilege
01:04:09God rest his soul
01:04:10having a relationship
01:04:11with my father
01:04:12so privilege
01:04:13having a privileged
01:04:14child doesn't necessarily
01:04:15mean giving him
01:04:16finance or who finance
01:04:17is having a child
01:04:19who had the privilege
01:04:20of experiencing you
01:04:21as a parent
01:04:22in your holistic sense
01:04:24not just being able
01:04:26to get a thousand dollars
01:04:27a month as salary
01:04:28because you're abroad
01:04:30it's important for you
01:04:32to give them the privilege
01:04:33of knowing you
01:04:34and you knowing them
01:04:35This was Manhood
01:04:38Johan C. Kivo
01:04:41Nice
01:04:41Manhood
01:04:46Brought to you in part
01:04:48by Reboot Sports Drink
01:04:49Thank you
01:04:51Thank you
01:04:51Thank you
01:04:51Thank you