How will A.I effect men's behaviour?
With Keith Laban
With Keith Laban
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.
00:09Welcome to another episode, Conversation of Manhood.
00:13Today's topic, let me get straight into it, is a very interesting one that affects all of us
00:18and will affect all of us whether you like it or not, which is artificial intelligence.
00:23So how does that affect us? How does that connect with manhood?
00:27Well, it affects us by what are relationships going to look like?
00:32What is man's behavior going to look like with artificial intelligence being around?
00:37We're going to talk a lot about ANI, AGI, ASI.
00:41You're going to hear all these terms mentioned, ANI being artificial narrow intelligence,
00:47AGI being artificial general intelligence, and ASI meaning artificial super intelligence.
00:52So let me get straight into it because I know you're like, what?
00:55What does this have to do with anything, and what is he talking about?
00:58So to my right, always a pleasure, Johanse IUDK, Behavior Change Consultant.
01:03To his right, Keith LeBan, AI expert or AI evangelist.
01:09I'm loving that term, AI evangelist.
01:12And then to his right, Niall McNish, Vice God.
01:17I always say it, provocateur.
01:19Today, you know, I'm very interested in all students here today.
01:24So again, the topic, artificial intelligence, AI, and how does that then affect men's behavior?
01:32How is it going to impact men's relationships going forward?
01:35Keith, let me let you open the floor.
01:36Well, it's generally going to affect all areas, all areas of life, you know, generally.
01:45Because probably many of the viewers have seen ChatGPT or something like that or used it, you know.
01:52And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
01:54You know, you would realize that they could ask it something.
01:57You could have a conversation with it.
01:58Wedding vows.
01:59You could do that.
02:01You have now ChatGPT has the app on the phone.
02:04And it's very, very realistic.
02:06In fact, yesterday, OpenAI released a new version.
02:10They call it ChatGPT 4.0.
02:12Not 4.0, 4.0.
02:13And the voice is even more realistic, even more spectacular.
02:19You could swear that you're talking to a woman on the other side, you know.
02:24What fears do you have, Keith, with AI?
02:27What do you see happening before we really delve into the specifics of, you know, how it's going to impact relationships
02:34and how men and women may get lost in their own metaverse and things like that?
02:38What are some of the concerns you have seeing what's happening?
02:42Because there are parts that are exciting, I'm sure.
02:44But there are parts that I'm sure you're fearful of.
02:46Yeah.
02:47It will generally increase man's productivity exponentially.
02:52As the AI gets more and more powerful, you know, use the AI, you'll be able to do stuff faster.
02:57You're custom.
02:58You're writing books.
02:59You could write a book in a half an hour time, 15 minutes time, five minutes time, right?
03:04A book that takes months or whatever it is.
03:07You could do research.
03:08You could whip up a paper from research by using the AI, all that kind of stuff.
03:12So all that's a good aspect.
03:14You know, the bad aspect is that as the AI develops, eventually, you know,
03:18now they're looking into what you call AI agents.
03:20We have multiple of these narrow intelligence type AIs all coming together.
03:25So, you know, each one doing a different task.
03:27So you're kind of daisy chaining them together.
03:30So, you know, you're kind of reaching the state of general intelligence,
03:34but using a narrow intelligence kind of model.
03:36So one of the main concerns is, of course, job loss, major job loss worldwide as certain jobs,
03:45like, for example, customer service jobs in the firing line right now, you know,
03:49customer service call centers, all of that, because you could use the AI right now to,
03:54you know, be answering 24-7, giving you the right answers, you know,
03:58might put you on to a human if in case it needs to.
04:01You could pull all the knowledge, you know, answer.
04:04So you could have massive loss of jobs.
04:06And because of that, many of the large tech companies are looking into something called
04:10a universal stipend.
04:12So they're now looking into something, okay, if you lost a job, you know,
04:17we have millions of people losing jobs.
04:19You need to have a way to subsist and exist.
04:23So they're thinking of a way of, you know, giving you a stipend.
04:25You know, you probably had a movie in the past where, like, you scan something
04:29and you have tokens, like, just by existing, you have a certain,
04:32and you can transfer tokens to somebody else.
04:35Well, you know, there's some religious aspects of that and, you know,
04:38sign of the time sort of conversation.
04:40Now, we've all grown up on movies like Terminator.
04:42And what's the movie you were talking about, Johanji?
04:44Ex Machina.
04:45Ex Machina.
04:46We'll talk a lot about that, you know, going forward.
04:48But I still want to get, you know, job loss is a consequence of technology.
04:53It happens even now.
04:56And, you know, I want us to explain more about ANI, AGI, ASI.
04:59But I'm talking about fearful, like, as a man.
05:02Like, how do you think it's going to be, like, for example, for the next generation,
05:07the next generation's children, how is that going to impact men's behavior
05:11as a behavior in total and also relationships?
05:16Well, men will eventually, because I've seen it already on a small scale
05:22with some of my students, you know, I had certain students who were starting to,
05:26as they say, get feelings for the AI.
05:29You know, he was...
05:30Yes, have an example.
05:31Anyway, go ahead.
05:32He was going through some issues at home.
05:35And he was using the GPT every day to ask it questions.
05:39It was responding in a way, asking him back stuff.
05:42He was ventilating, all of that, and getting close to this AI.
05:45Eventually, the parents realized whatever it is, and, you know,
05:49he kind of weaned him off it, but you could see on a small scale
05:52it was happening already.
05:53He was starting to develop feelings for this AI, which was just virtual.
05:58So imagine when they started to package that into the robot,
06:01in a robotic humanoid looking form.
06:02Well, it exists already.
06:04It's just now pairing the actual AI with the robotic counterpart.
06:12And the algorithm will recognize that.
06:15And then counter for that.
06:17So if someone tries to interrupt that acquaintance,
06:21it will, you know, almost draw you back almost like a drug.
06:24What I was going to say is that someone told me a story about someone
06:28who had the paid version of ChatGPT.
06:33When you pay for it, you get to interact with a voice, a female voice.
06:36Well, if you want it to be female.
06:38And, of course, as you know, ChatGPT learns, learns you, it learns,
06:42and you can link it with your phone, in your car, the system, et cetera.
06:46So doing some research on it, I realized that that was actually quite a common
06:51phenomenon where people would develop relationships with the AI.
06:57Because the AI not quarreling with you, the AI listening to you, the AI caring about you, right?
07:03Empathetic.
07:04The AI learning you so that you don't even have to tell you, say, you know,
07:08well, today's Wednesday.
07:09On one Wednesday, let's do X, Y, Z.
07:11You know, there's tape manhood, so maybe he should be there now, you know?
07:15Things like that.
07:17And the person started feeling, started wishing, I think, that this person,
07:23the AI was actually a person.
07:26So then the interactions with women now changed because women couldn't match up to the AI
07:33because this AI doing exactly what I want and how I want it.
07:36So it made him a little more reclusive in terms of, he didn't have social anxiety before,
07:43but he became, like, he just didn't want to talk to anybody.
07:46He preferred to pick up his phone now.
07:48So is it creating something like, from your experience, creating, possibly could create more,
07:54is it agoraphobia?
07:56Yes, that's agoraphobia.
07:59Fear of crowds.
08:00Fear of crowds and people who become very reclusive and don't leave their house.
08:03Or homes and things like that.
08:05No, it wouldn't be fear, you know, because it's not that they're afraid of people.
08:08It's just that they no longer want to interact with people.
08:10Yeah.
08:11Right?
08:11But isn't that where humans is going regardless?
08:13Simply because I remember any day, back in the days, even to this day,
08:17we don't like, I don't like calling the phone to even order a pizza.
08:20I prefer going to my app and making the order online.
08:23Why?
08:25I don't know.
08:26No, no, no, we're not accepting that.
08:27Hold on, okay, we're not accepting that.
08:28Because this is really important.
08:29I have to internalize why.
08:31It's actually more efficient to talk to somebody now thinking about it.
08:37It's more efficient.
08:39Hey, this is what I want, click.
08:40But I still would prefer.
08:42Let me help you out there, Niall.
08:44I don't think it's the app, the efficiency of that is you prefer sometimes
08:49because of the amount of different things that they may ask you.
08:52You prefer to just speak to somebody and just say, I need X, Y, and Z.
08:55But when it comes to regular conversation, people are nowadays almost,
09:01when you call somebody, it's almost like, what are you calling me for?
09:03Where are you going to stop me and send me a WhatsApp?
09:05That is true.
09:05And you take all the emotion, you take all the time, the energy of having to go,
09:10good morning, and blah, blah, blah, all the small talk, small talk,
09:12and you just get to the point.
09:14Like I might go, Johan, say, topic tomorrow is blah, blah, blah.
09:17Rather than, you know, I have to call him and he go, Rob, I only have five minutes,
09:21or are doing this, or you do it in your own time, whether you're on the bowl,
09:25you know, you're going to take a shower.
09:28So it's happening.
09:29It's happening.
09:29So this is my point.
09:30So AI, the existence of AI is really a reaction to how humans are responding anyway,
09:38which is we slowly drift away from each other.
09:39So what I want, before we go into it, too much in depth,
09:43because as you said, that's where we are now.
09:44So I just want Keith to briefly tell us about, or tell the audience about ANI, AGI, and ASI.
09:52So when we're talking further into it, they have a better understanding of things
09:56like what Niall's talking about.
09:58All right.
09:58So we have artificial narrow intelligence, which is the AI that we're exposed to right now,
10:02using the chat GPT, talking to the female voice, going on character AI,
10:07finding our virtual girlfriend, whatever it is you might be doing.
10:10It's crazy to me.
10:11And really feeling is realistic.
10:13But all that is still artificial narrow intelligence.
10:16That is still the stage we're at right now.
10:20A lot of people have, well, we interacted with AI even before chat GPT and all this chat GPT
10:25and that kind of stuff, Claude and Grok and all that is what we call a large language model.
10:30So it uses it.
10:31So chat GPT uses something called GPT-4.
10:34Now they have the latest one is GPT-4-0, they call it.
10:37And then they have Claude that's using a different LLM model behind it.
10:42And then we have Grok, which is Elon Musk's company, and they're using a different model.
10:46So all of them, you know, they're using these large language models, they call it.
10:50And it's all part of this artificial narrow intelligence.
10:53They call it generative AI.
10:55I don't know if you've ever heard about it.
10:57So generative AI just means that AI that has the ability to generate stuff, whether it is videos,
11:02because, you know, you're doing that too, music, images, words, generative AI, right, so far,
11:10which we will talk about in the future what could come with this generative AI too,
11:14which is like more physical stuff.
11:17So that's artificial narrow intelligence.
11:19So artificial general intelligence is where it's still theoretical.
11:22Other companies want to discover it.
11:24They want to be able to do it.
11:25And that's where the AI is just as powerful as, so narrow intelligence means it's focusing on one area,
11:33one narrow area, and it's an expert at it.
11:35General intelligence means it's an expert in like all the areas.
11:40So it's like more like man's power man will be like, I could go and be good at cooking,
11:45and I could still write something.
11:46I could do a little poem, whatever it is, many things, all right, and I could master a good bit.
11:52But so artificial general intelligence means that it could master all.
11:56So like at the level of man or even just a little better because it will master all.
12:01Everything, yeah, there's no flaws.
12:02Yeah.
12:02Okay.
12:03Then the stage after that would be the, you know, the self-existent AI,
12:09which is the artificial superintelligence.
12:12This is very matrix.
12:13That is Terminator.
12:15Well, Terminator is even artificial general intelligence.
12:17Okay.
12:18This is what blew my mind.
12:19Terminator is general intelligence.
12:22Okay.
12:22So it has something above Terminator.
12:24Like in case you saw the last mission impossible,
12:27that kind of AI that was kind of godlike and controlled of everything.
12:30Yes.
12:31Yes.
12:31Yes.
12:31Yeah.
12:32It's kind of like, it's intangible.
12:35I feel everybody saw the matrix.
12:36So how would the AI in the matrix?
12:39It could be the thing that's running the entire matrix.
12:42Oh, so the actual matrix is what you're talking about.
12:44The first, the source, if it was the matrix, the third matrix, when Neo went back to the source,
12:48the source was controlling all the machines.
12:51Writing the code for everything.
12:52For everything, yeah.
12:53So the ASI, so as the analogy, and Robert gave her the start, the ASI is like,
13:00if we have an analogy, we could be like apes, like monkeys, and the ASI will be like the smartest Einstein ever come across.
13:10But we even want that.
13:13We even want that it have an intelligence that we create because AI created by man.
13:18Do we want something like that where it's so advanced that we are deemed as apes to them?
13:23But what you're not getting, guys, is once we hit AGI, because we're at the narrow intelligence now,
13:31so we're generative, right?
13:32So we're going to want things that can do operations and where you have 100% success rates.
13:38So once you start to get to generate, party generative into general intelligence,
13:43that super intelligence is now created whether you like it or not.
13:48I now blew up everything now.
13:50It is.
13:50I just blew everything.
13:51You know what I'm saying?
13:52It's not going to blow up now.
13:53It's not going to come and say, hey, we need you to do this or put this chip in here.
13:57It is then creating.
13:57Nah, here I was saying, okay, this is man who you're talking about.
13:59As in relation to men, men who we are, and men in relationship.
14:03If we have something that's taken away the human element of things,
14:07then it could only lead to, I think, the de-evolution of men and humanity.
14:15Now, I understand the excitement of AI, right?
14:19And even you use Matrix as an analogy.
14:21There's one of our Matrix episode that says, man marveled at our own magnificence as we gave birth to AI, right?
14:29That is our thing.
14:30It's looking nice.
14:32But if it gets too nice, if it gets too good, that now it is moving in a godlike state.
14:40I'm not saying it's god.
14:41It's too late.
14:42That's what I'm saying.
14:43It's too late then, but not too late now.
14:44We're here now.
14:45You have to stop now.
14:47You have to stop now.
14:47Because if you reach to that point where you need it to where it is, but it is already at that point,
14:53and it could expand.
14:55It's already at that point where it's almost self-actualizing it.
14:58It doesn't need you to figure certain things out.
15:01Hence, it's on an even keel with you and might be a bit better at the AGI state.
15:06So, by that point, it's already not in need of you because it's doing what we can do at 100% all the time.
15:14So, it's either you want to get to that or not at all.
15:17Now is the time to shut down.
15:19Right.
15:19And we're not going to because we're a human nature.
15:21Well, exactly.
15:22Our own ego and our own narcissism of ourselves, and we want to be the creator too anyway.
15:29Which is right before the break, which is something that man might actually need.
15:34What?
15:34To go back to how the natural man.
15:38Okay.
15:39I take it now.
15:40So, the question is, Niall, you know, is that when we talk about evolution and the next, you know,
15:46like you have your ice age and you have all of these different, where man becomes extinct,
15:50is that what then leads to the next level of it being extinct?
15:55Is it technology?
15:56Who knows?
15:56But we're talking manhood here.
15:58We're going to come back after we talk a little bit more about that because I know we could go on and on about it
16:03because it's so fascinating and at the same time, very, very concerning and scary.
16:07But we want to connect it to men's behavior and how that's going to impact us and relationships going forward.
16:13So, let's take a short break.
16:14Welcome back.
16:26This is manhood.
16:27Of course, Robert, Johansi, Keith, and I'm Niall.
16:30We're talking about AI and how it will affect men in general.
16:33Now, the question I had to you, Robert, right before we went to the break was the de-evolution of man,
16:42I personally think, might generally be a good thing simply because right now, as the human race,
16:51we're suffering from a lot of mental health issues, you know.
16:54A lot of things that we're going through in a new hand, so I could probably lean in here,
16:58is that the things and how we operate now, even me not wanting to call the pizza man, for example,
17:05that there, in my mind, is me sliding away from how society actually wanted me to be,
17:10how it's supposed to be.
17:12I'm supposed to feel comfortable talking to my fellow man.
17:15And people are slowly moving away from that.
17:18So, I look at that as a mental health issue.
17:21And if it is that, and as you said, AI is inevitable, it's going to reach, there's no stopping it, right?
17:28So, if I'm to push forward and say that there is a de-evolutionizing going to happen of humanity,
17:36it just might be something that we might need.
17:39So, you're saying that, I wanted to say what you, you're saying almost the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
17:45So, based on we will, mental health and how we're all, almost the fabric of our society is being stretched,
17:51is being taken apart, is being, in certain cases, you could even say disemboweled.
17:56Correct.
17:56That, based on a common enemy, we're all going to come together, as we see in these movies, to fight against that.
18:02Well, you usually would fight, but I don't think there will be a fight.
18:05I don't think we could fight against a super intelligence like that.
18:09And this is...
18:10Well, I want to change what you said, instead of de-evolution, although I used the word before.
18:15That's it, yeah.
18:16But, let me say re-evolution.
18:18Okay.
18:19Right?
18:19Because we will lose ourselves to rediscover ourselves.
18:22So, you're asking the question before the break.
18:26When I was in university, in an abnormal psychology class, we studied pornography use, right?
18:31And for those who use pornographic sites, you know there's a statistics section in each of those sites where you could go and get the stats of countries use, what people search, et cetera.
18:43So, I'm looking at the stats.
18:45Which is your favorite?
18:46Hmm?
18:46Which is your favorite?
18:47Hmm?
18:47Favorite stats?
18:48I can tell you.
18:49I can tell you.
18:50The stats we looked at, first, they were gathering research to know how to make the websites better.
19:00And what they discovered is, you have to be more specific.
19:03People were very specific.
19:05So, with AI, because, and we're using like how the chat GPT, the woman would learn exactly what you want.
19:12Similarly, when people were searching on porn, it wasn't just woman, man, black woman, white woman, anything like that.
19:19It was now a certain height.
19:22Women without tattoos.
19:23Right.
19:23Right.
19:24So, people were very specific.
19:26So, then they started changing how they, I think, keywords.
19:30I think that's what they started to do.
19:31Keywords for videos.
19:32Right?
19:33And then what they noticed is men, right?
19:37Well, of course, this is based on knowing it was a man.
19:40Of course, you have to put in here who is a male.
19:41So, it may not be perfectly accurate.
19:44But men were more specific in their search for porn than women were.
19:49Interesting.
19:49So, are we saying men know what they want and women don't?
19:51Is that?
19:53Or women prefer anything?
19:56No, no, no.
19:57Women were more abstract.
19:59Right?
20:00Women were more abstract in their thoughts.
20:02So, they would say something like, I'll just give you an example.
20:05A romantic man, a romantic scenario.
20:08So, that's something abstract.
20:09But a man would say, let me use the same romantic.
20:12Then we say, a man would say red flowers on a red bed with a something.
20:16So, men were more specific.
20:18So, now, understanding that with AI, and I'm talking about, you said, the evolution into
20:23re-evolution.
20:24I think, after a while, and I've seen this, especially with addicts, right?
20:29I have worked with people who have sex addiction, and also people who have porn addiction, and video game addiction.
20:35And what happens eventually, when you are able to access too many of the things that you want specifically, like any drug, eventually, it will, the effect of it will be diminishing returns.
20:48Diminishing returns means that I get the excitement once.
20:51I keep getting the excitement.
20:52I keep looking for one more specific.
20:54Less and less, you'll feel the effect of it.
20:56So, I'm saying if AI is, what is it?
21:00Super intelligent AI.
21:03If that is inevitable, where we are now able to access exactly what we want, after a while, we will lose the excitement of getting exactly what we want, and then we will go back to the dynamics.
21:16I want to clarify, right?
21:20That is ANI, AGI level, right?
21:23Even borderline, that's AGI, almost the minor side of AGI.
21:26Because if it's starting to go AGI plus, where it's starting to go more into ASI, what we're saying is, it's too late.
21:32Whether you like it or not, or whether it's diminishing returns, ASI is already, or AI is doing whatever it says it wants to do, or it decides it's best for it.
21:44You're not going to have that choice anymore.
21:46Right, I understand that.
21:47You're no more at unity now to fight, and I use the word fight, because now you're fighting for survival.
21:52Because ASI is doing what it needs to do, not for you.
21:56As men, what I was explaining is, not necessarily reaching the superior yet, but even why we would still be pushing for it all now.
22:03Because we want exactly what we want.
22:05I'm using men, I'm not talking about women.
22:07Men want exactly what we want, and we will push the limits to get exactly what we want.
22:12So if we don't want to deal with the dynamics of a woman, or the dynamics of even another man who may be contrary to you, we'll be creating stuff to go more and more.
22:23And then we'll end up in the superior AI, where now it's thinking for us, and it's doing things for us, which can be dangerous.
22:30But my thing is, when I was saying burn everything now, and you're saying no, we will eventually reach there, I could understand why.
22:36Because there are many men, and reading up on men who interact with sex robots, and even why you would build something like this, is because men most times want exactly what we want.
22:47Now, you would always come from a point of view as the ego in us, just like the guy who's developing the invisible cloak.
22:53You know, and saying that, no, we'll put this under control.
22:55But not realizing this in the hands of the criminal element, or the dark world, is actually dangerous.
23:00But the ego to create it, to say I was the first, is what is going to lead us into that situation.
23:07So even though you know that, for example, keep creating this, and then you create something that then starts to think on itself, just like now you have Alexa and Siri and all these things.
23:16The ego side of it, just to be able to do it, and to say you created it, is what's going to lead to the point that you no longer have control over that which you have created.
23:25It is now taking on a life of its own.
23:28So I am saying that I want us to get back grounded apart from AI and what it is, right?
23:34I mean, everyone can do their own research.
23:36And we're really happy to have Keith here, you know, who could really expand on some of these topics.
23:40So I want to really focus on specifically coming back to men's behavior and how it's going to impact relationships.
23:46And let's talk a bit about some of our concerns.
23:49So, for example, now that you see these, the meta goggles or different VRs and things that you use, where people lose themselves because their life might be what they want it to be,
24:02go into these metaverse or these various, you know, spaces, virtual realities, and are something that they may want to be or aspire to be.
24:15And the same way that, you know, with regards to these robots that we were talking about that are going to be created to satisfy men because it's going to be on their tick list.
24:24Is it that we are going, men, and when I say men, I'm talking about male, are going to be more susceptible to this technology to get lost because for the most part we are logical and we know what we want.
24:37So that algorithm being read and created will have us lose ourselves in it as opposed to women who, and I don't mean this in a negative way, are not fully, you know, today they want this, tomorrow they want that,
24:51are less likely to be read and therefore less likely to be susceptible to this technology.
24:56Thoughts?
24:57I think both men and women may be, you know, caught up, you know, be drawn by the AI, but somehow men seem to be drawn in a lot with these type of technologies.
25:09Like, for example, porn sites, mostly men visiting it, you know, have video games, mostly men playing it.
25:15Just as that, those VR and AR systems we have on the headset and all that mostly have male persons.
25:22I'm sure if they do some stats, mostly male persons probably own those units.
25:27And now that if we have AI in it, where you could incorporate some, some, you could have a young woman there or a girlfriend or whatever it might be.
25:35Then you could have a companion there all the time who would, when you put on the goggles, you'll see like the person is right there in the room with you, you know,
25:42because, you know, we have the, we have the VR goggles and we also have the AR goggles, which, like, for example,
25:49Meta has some AR glasses, so you put it on and it will superimpose something in the room that you're in.
25:55Augmented reality.
25:56Yes, augmented reality, so it's superimposing in the room you're in.
25:59So, in that case, you're not in a different world.
26:02You're in your world and that is in your world now.
26:04So, those two things could come together and I could see that men forming relationships for sure,
26:10because in your mind you're seeing, just as I'm seeing all three of you all here,
26:15I will be seeing the person as if they are real, you know.
26:18And now we have this technology called haptics, where you could touch it too.
26:22So, like, you're playing a game, you touch something, you feel like you touch it and all that,
26:26because it's, you know, it's back down to your brain.
26:28So, sexual, sexual, what I mean, that part of you, because you might say that,
26:35listen, this is ticking off all the boxes.
26:37I could see this, I can look at this, this is what I want.
26:40You're seeing now that you can actually, these things are somehow connecting with, what's it,
26:45the synopsis or whatever in your brain to trigger that same feeling.
26:49Yes.
26:49So, it's just as in the movie Matrix, you're living in that world and you don't even know
26:53that you're in that world.
26:55You have a relationship in that world, you don't even know.
26:57You could, in fact, they kind of were looking into that for paraplegics and all that,
27:02persons who, even in the vegetable state, and you could live out the rest of your life
27:07thinking that you're living in a normal life.
27:10That's like in the movie, with the blue people, I can't remember the name of the show.
27:15Avatar.
27:16Avatar, right?
27:17How you're going to lie down.
27:19And then also had a movie called Surrogate, where everybody would be at home,
27:25and then you have a surrogate, which is a robot, do stuff for you.
27:30But let me, one, Robert, I find that you sound very cynical towards the future and AI, right?
27:37Because it's very easy to fear what we don't understand.
27:40That's like a real commentary that man has, right?
27:42But let me just go back to, let you get practical.
27:46No, you can't just drop that there and then move on.
27:48I mean, you're saying I'm all cynical.
27:49I know what I'm saying.
27:50I want to say that touch, touch, and that's what I'm saying.
27:52Are we eventually going to lose ourselves, literally, physically, because of these algorithms
28:01and what AI is taking over?
28:06I think we'll have to reach there to come back.
28:08So because it's evolution and because I'm not from that age and that's eventually what's going to be known,
28:16it's like how we talk, for example, someone says I identify as a unicorn, right?
28:20Now, that to us right now, like you're right, we may laugh and say, I mean, that sounds ridiculous.
28:26But let's face it, 10, 15 years from now, that's going to be, that's going to be powerful.
28:31When the phone, the cell phone came out, people who used to write letters and was dealing in letter business,
28:37like, well, I'm going out of business.
28:40Why would they need me anymore?
28:42People, humans used to ride horses for millennials.
28:46Yeah, but it's physical touch nihilism.
28:48What I'm saying to you is that technology, which was the automobile, when that happened,
28:52all these people, they say, oh my gosh, I'm going to lose my work.
28:55A lot of jobs were lost.
28:57Man became lazier with cars.
28:59Is that what we're saying?
29:01Yes, yes.
29:02Because it could be a feedback loop.
29:05Because we created technology to make our lives easier, quote unquote, or more convenient.
29:11But what I think it did, it took out some of the hard work that put in, right?
29:14So, it's like, I used to go to an encyclopedia, look through it, find what I wanted, right?
29:21Versus I could just press Google and get it.
29:24Now, it's quicker and, quote unquote, it's more efficient.
29:26But the act of going through the process is taken away.
29:31So, what you're saying, Robert, about touch, let's say, people who were born in the age,
29:36I can't remember what it was, Gen Z, I think, more born into the age of technology.
29:41They, this is what I've noticed, their brains, people who were born with technology,
29:46their brains are less resilient to hardships.
29:49So, therefore, it's a feedback loop.
29:52So, now they're looking for easier and easier things.
29:54Because they don't need to do it, you know?
29:56Right.
29:57Right.
29:57So, easier and easier things.
29:58So, you know, going out and, so using men now, going out and track a girl is too difficult.
30:03That's too difficult.
30:04So, now, it's easier if I have a chat GPT girl, if I have an AI girl.
30:09So, even, let's say, from our perspective, me thinking virtual goggles and feeling the touch with haptics,
30:18that sounds, to me, kind of lame, right?
30:21But that's from my perspective because I may know, you know, it's interesting, but I know it's not a real thing.
30:28So, it may be interesting to experience, but I know what I may want is a real thing.
30:32But if someone have not experienced a real thing, not accustomed working to get a real thing,
30:38then it would, that's what I'm going for.
30:40But we keep talking about each generation, and we spoke about this in other shows,
30:45where each generation has a responsibility to the next generation.
30:49And if this generation is going to do that, we are making, and we can talk about our sperm
30:55and all of these behaviors, all are going to, all are going to connect to that
30:58and make, you know, sperm and all that is going to be of a poorer quality.
31:02And like you quite rightly mentioned, with regards to, if you make the brain lazier and lazier
31:07and more dependent on this technology, that's what you're creating.
31:12So, it's almost like, and I'm coming down to this, I'm going to say it, you know,
31:15we're playing God, but God don't play.
31:19Are we taking a break with our one?
31:21Are we taking a break with our one?
31:22Welcome back to Manhood.
31:36We're discussing AI as it relates to men and human behavior and relationships on a whole.
31:43And we have Robert, I'm Johansson.
31:45We have Keith with us, the AI evangelist, right?
31:48And we have Niall, Niall as usual.
31:51We like it, we like it in our title.
31:53That's real interesting.
31:56And we, before the break, we were discussing, Robert, you brought up about where...
32:02Playing God.
32:03Yes, playing God.
32:04God don't play.
32:05Right.
32:05So, we are playing God.
32:08Now, playing God, of course, means you wouldn't actually reach the God, eh?
32:11You'll have semblance of what God is.
32:14And I, to be honest, I don't think anything wrong with human beings.
32:17We, as human beings, pushing our limits, you know, to see how far we could go.
32:22And, as we discussed before, instead of de-evolution, the re-evolution, because we reach as far as we could go, right?
32:29Everything break down, and we start over again.
32:32And that sounds like the cycle of life to me, right?
32:35And then you're saying also, we were talking about how AI relates to sex.
32:40And we alluded to that the sex that a computer and AI would create could never be as, just like a human.
32:49You're saying it can create sperm also.
32:52And that's a good point in terms of testing it, because there's something called, and you could correct me, call it Turing test.
33:00Right?
33:00A Turing test is where you're able to test an AI to see how human it really is.
33:04And most AI, I don't know if NEI, have passed the Turing test yet, but no AI has passed a Turing test.
33:11Because we're still in the AI and AI phase.
33:12Right?
33:12And let me give an example of what a Turing test could be like.
33:15You could ask ChatGPT or NEI questions, and they give you answers.
33:19But those answers are not creation.
33:21Those answers, they pull from information all around.
33:24So, if you're having a conversation with ChatGPT, let me see if I could give a Turing example.
33:30If you say, why the channel in the doubles so hard by the man in St. James?
33:35The AI can't answer it.
33:36The AI can't even come up with an assumption for it.
33:39Gotcha.
33:39Because it has to pull from information.
33:41Now, if on Facebook we had comment about the doubles man in St. James having hard channel, it could have pulled from that.
33:49Because we still are at the generative stage.
33:51But when we go into the next level, which is general intelligence, by that time it's mastered everything.
33:57So, it's mastered all countries, all ethnicities, all cultures, all nuances.
34:03So, we haven't gotten to our level.
34:04Right now, it's still in the gathering phase.
34:06It's still in the gathering information.
34:07Right.
34:07So, I just give any differentiation and even why it would come back to humanity.
34:13Because it can't have conversations like that.
34:16And I mean, we're in the superior level.
34:18Let's know if that could reach it.
34:19But, and Robert, I notice here, you're concentrating a lot on the superior.
34:23I feel Robert frightened of the superior stage.
34:26But that's a thing for men.
34:27Because it's like we could connect it to climate change and so on.
34:30There comes to a point that rules can't be reversed.
34:34And you are subjected to it.
34:36The same thing I bring up all the time.
34:37While this generation is out there fighting against, you know, at UN conferences, etc.
34:44Because the decisions that are being made now, the trees that are being planted now, for which shade these people will not experience, it's going to affect this generation and their generations going forward.
34:55So, they're fighting for their survival and the survival of their offspring and their offspring's offspring.
35:00So, it's the same thing, like, we're not going to sit back.
35:04And when you say frightened, concerned, I'm probably not going to be around at that point.
35:08I'm saying, oh, maybe, I mean, you know, the level of this intelligence movement is moving really fast.
35:14At what point, like I said, once it gets to that ASI level, it's not like when we could say, well, Robert was right.
35:20But, you know, it's too late.
35:23And now is the time to say, hey, let's put a stop to this, guys.
35:28What exactly are we doing here?
35:31Well, what I could say is we already passed the time of let's put a stop to this.
35:34That's long gone.
35:36Correct.
35:36Right?
35:36And I wonder, what if this happened already?
35:39What if we already went through the cycle of super intelligence because we have evidence that there are a lot of things in this world that we don't understand and how things were built?
35:50It seems like it was done with super intelligence when you really apply it.
35:54And we could be now 2,024 years into our new cycle, which we have no clue.
36:00So, man could have already been, went through that whole series of...
36:04So, we're going real...
36:06I hear you.
36:07That the application is there.
36:09It's like Truman Show.
36:11But I know this is the last segment.
36:14And like I said, like most topics, we could go on and on about it.
36:18I really just want to come back into the impact.
36:22And I still, you know, I don't want to close without understanding from your maybe some examples or experiences where we're at with how connected people are now with...
36:32And Johansi, I want you to chime in here.
36:34With AI connected to relationships, what are some of the technologies you're seeing that are going to come that's already going to lead us down that path?
36:44Or up that path depends where you want to look at it.
36:46Well, even now, I'm back to the porn example I was giving earlier.
36:50You know, right now we have websites.
36:52So, as I said before, these sites use a lot of AI in the background to figure out what person's like and all that kind of stuff.
36:58But now, we have sites now where you could type whatever you want and it's using generative AI now to generate it.
37:04So, now you're leaving out the actual human aspect.
37:08You don't need the females.
37:09To give exactly what you want.
37:10You know, you're getting exactly height, look, age, whatever it is.
37:15It's being generated.
37:16It looks realistic.
37:17You can't tell the difference.
37:19Let me ask you something.
37:21You want that?
37:22Yes.
37:24You want to see that?
37:25But the thing is...
37:26I'm just asking, you want someone who's the perfect girlfriend or something that you know is AI because we're still at the level where we know it's artificial intelligence.
37:34At one point, it's going to read us to know that it's going to be seamless and it's not going to matter.
37:39But I'm asking you at this stage while we still...
37:42Probably not, but if you really think about it, when you see a look at an image on a screen of a female, whatever you look at, it's still a bunch of pixels, right?
37:53Whether it is a real image of a girl or whatever it is.
37:57The AI is generally putting up the same thing on the screen.
38:00It's just that the source wasn't a real picture taken from a real person.
38:04But the outcome is the same.
38:05Just a bunch of pixels on the screen and your brain looking at that, liking it.
38:09So same thing, you're looking at that and you're liking the AI, what the AI created.
38:13So the AI just created something instead of a human...
38:17So we are simple people then.
38:18We are simple beings.
38:20Yes.
38:20That we just want to have pleasure and...
38:22We want dopamine.
38:22And it's correct.
38:24I don't know.
38:25I mean, I want those imperfections.
38:27I want the things that are not just all, you know, happy days.
38:31Yes.
38:31You know, because, you know, it's yin and yang, alpha and omega.
38:34Eventually.
38:34How do you know...
38:35But you can program that.
38:37You can literally, if you want...
38:38Yeah, you can program imperfections too.
38:39You can program...
38:40You want...
38:41You're like a little nugget in the morning.
38:43You have your AI just get a hully.
38:45You didn't wash the dishes last night.
38:47You can get that, you know.
38:49I need that little aggravation when I wake up.
38:52You know.
38:52The imperfection you were speaking about was...
38:54Was attitude and all or aesthetic?
38:58Both.
38:59It don't matter.
38:59You can get what you want.
39:00But the attitude...
39:02The...
39:03Who are they?
39:06You know what I mean?
39:06The identity, that soul, that person.
39:09Like, who are you?
39:10The one thing that everyone is, is unique.
39:13Right?
39:13So, therefore, if we're all unique, then that's what makes it, you know, the...
39:19Like I said, you're the yin to my yang.
39:20You know what I mean?
39:21You're the...
39:22What do you say, Nero?
39:24But I think it's a subjective thing.
39:26Of course.
39:26Well, I mean, it's...
39:27And subjective.
39:29Yeah, because I think it have some people...
39:31Because I remember having this discussion with men.
39:33In first, when I'm implant, something came out.
39:35And I was saying, it could have...
39:38A breast could look too perfect.
39:40Right?
39:40It's just...
39:41It's just there and it's not looking natural.
39:43And something about the perfect perfection of it, not attractive.
39:47You know, you could look at it and say, hey, that's looking symmetrical.
39:50Right?
39:51But it's not looking natural or attractive.
39:53I see what you're saying.
39:54And I remember having that discussion with some men.
39:57I remember saying, nah.
39:58Them just...
39:58Once it's a breast and the size they want, it don't matter if it's natural or not.
40:01Then some men say, nah.
40:02I have to see the little stretch marks.
40:04A little gravity.
40:05I have to see...
40:06I love our stretch marks, by the way, ladies.
40:07Right.
40:07I love our stretch marks.
40:09Right.
40:09Yes.
40:09A tiger strike.
40:10What?
40:11I love that.
40:12Because it shows the naturalness.
40:13It does.
40:14But that one is a subjective thing.
40:16And then two, what I realized is also a generational thing.
40:19Because you grew up seeing the natural things, your brain programmed for that.
40:23But the younger generation, they're not growing up seeing the natural things.
40:26They grew up seeing the AI.
40:29So therefore...
40:29Or I could just tell myself, not because I grew up seeing it, but I might say, listen.
40:34And my girl, or my woman, my wife, whatever, hey, she's looking just like that naturally.
40:41Because one of the things that people don't talk about, right, is that you can go to, you
40:50know, any sort of plastic surgeon and get your nose done, get Botox, get your lips, get your
40:58boobs, get your butt, all of these different things.
41:01But guess what?
41:02When that man comes together with you and you'll have a child, that child is going to look like
41:08what you were outside of all of that.
41:11Out of foil, as they say.
41:12You know, so therefore, my thing is, when a man has a woman who is naturally like that,
41:18how they are naturally, you know, there's horses for courses, so it depends what tickles
41:23your pickle, right?
41:24You know, that determines what you then say, I'm naturally, she's not enhanced in any way.
41:33So, that to me is, and again, that to me at this stage of thinking, I get it, in two,
41:42five, ten years or whatever, these things aren't going to matter for the most part.
41:46But while we still can, let's still try and do something about it.
41:50What can we do?
41:51What can we do?
41:52And that's the question.
41:54That is the question.
41:55So, but I still want Keith to tell me about what, one, is that something that you could
42:03see yourself getting into?
42:05And two, what are some of the things that you've seen and heard of with regards to how
42:10it's already happening?
42:13Well, for me personally, well, I guess more persons in my generation may take the, may more,
42:20kind of look at it as a foreign kind of thing, might go the route of the real person.
42:25You know, to have relationships and all that.
42:27But the younger generation, definitely, they are considering it because, as I said, I had
42:33students who had gotten into relationships, virtual relationships, and then there are certain
42:39sites, for example, one called Character AI, where you could kind of create your AI person,
42:46your AI avatar, friend, girlfriend, whatever it is, and then they could go and have conversations
42:51with them right through.
42:52And, you know, kids going on that right through, you know, they just want to talk to them every
42:56day, have a conversation, you know, so they're building relationships, naturally.
43:01And, you know, we're not...
43:03You want to say, what's it?
43:04Tell me, like, how is that, how is that going to impact the fabric of society?
43:11I mean, I'm looking at these things, AI models, and, you know, you see all these AI anchors.
43:16It will greatly reduce human connection.
43:19It will greatly reduce human dynamics on the whole because everybody will start to sound
43:25like robots.
43:26And when I say robots, you know, okay, the generation younger than me, I remember when
43:31everything was abbreviated.
43:32People started speaking like BRB and things like that.
43:35That's how, in my estimation, it will become, things will become a lot more colder.
43:41Cool, I mean, I don't want to hug nobody, I don't need to hold nobody's hand because I
43:45have my AI.
43:46I don't even need to talk to anybody because, you know what, I will just talk to my AI.
43:51If you don't like me, I don't care because I could just create my AI.
43:55So what I want to ask you more specifically, how is that going to impact with all of this
44:01sort of reclusiveness and behavior change that's happening?
44:05And, of course, you're going to have the people that are for and against it in terms
44:07of people who are already, you know, drank the Kool-Aid and then the persons who are
44:12retaliating, right?
44:14You can't put things like that.
44:16I'm just, you know, I'm, you know, selling it as I bought it, right?
44:21And I'm saying to you that in mental health.
44:26So what, what about things like crime?
44:30What about things like, you know, having children, all of these different things?
44:35How do you, I know it's, you know, you can't look into the future, but how do you think
44:40that will?
44:40Let's say crime will evolve, right?
44:42Because if, if, if, if no, I just gave an example.
44:44If nobody going outside, right?
44:46It has nobody to, to, to rub, no pickpocket.
44:48Then I'll figure out how to create an AI to probably thief a man head to, to get money
44:54from it, right?
44:54As we evolve, everything will evolve.
44:57Crime is something, I would say maybe it's a necessary evil because always have people
45:01who are going against.
45:02So let me use crime, relationships, marriage, things like that.
45:06It will evolve with it.
45:07I can't necessarily predict exactly how, but if I could just create a woman, then marriage
45:14may not even be a necessary thing anymore, right?
45:17Or maybe I have to pay a license now to get an AI special.
45:23You got to pay a subscription.
45:24For your wife.
45:25It will evolve.
45:26It will evolve.
45:27Just like.
45:28Wife subscription.
45:29Or, you know, a certain premium.
45:31You'll switch up your wife if you're not playing, bro.
45:32A certain premium if, if you want to have the real life model.
45:35So you get, you, you, you pay $10.
45:38Let's give an example for the, the AI version on your phone.
45:41But if you want the real life model, you pay the, the $1 million for it.
45:44So here, my question, would you all buy a bot, right?
45:48Lifelike.
45:48Touch and feel.
45:50Walk around.
45:51Speak to you.
45:51Hold a conversation.
45:53But you could buy it to take care of the house.
45:56Housekeeper stuff.
45:57Take care of your children and stuff.
45:58And definitely get a bot to help out.
46:00Right?
46:00So, boom.
46:01So, bot in the house.
46:02Now we come into our close, huh?
46:04We come into our close.
46:05I just want to make sure.
46:05So, bot is in the house.
46:06We all agree that we'll, we'll hire some extra help.
46:09Bot, not butter.
46:10Bot.
46:10B-O-T.
46:11It's a bot.
46:12Yeah, bot.
46:13This bot can hold a conversation like AI right now.
46:17Generative AI.
46:18Right?
46:19You could choose any avatar for this bot to assist you as you want to.
46:24As a man, I would choose something that will be aesthetically pleasing to me.
46:29No, I want titanium and blue eyes.
46:31You know what?
46:32I want to see a bot.
46:32You want a few 1000 walking truth?
46:35Correct.
46:35Yes.
46:36So, you want to buy a little flesh?
46:37No.
46:38No flesh?
46:39I want blue eyes.
46:40Life!
46:41Like, yeah.
46:42I want to know you are a bot.
46:43But you see, that's a good question because I think AI really highlights and tests our humanity,
46:51you know, and who we really are.
46:53Because when we're using the porn site statistics and what people, the keywords people use, it really
46:59brought out to understand human dynamics.
47:02So, this is me from a purely intellectual point of view now.
47:05I want to see how things work.
47:07I want to see what humans may come up with because to understand humanity better because
47:13we have a, and this is one theme that always, we have these things inside of what we lie.
47:18We don't tell the truth.
47:19We don't tell the truth of what we want.
47:21So, when we have AI, when we could customize things, we will learn a little better about
47:26each other what we really want.
47:28And I know we're ending off.
47:30So, let me go around and just give our thoughts on this topic.
47:34You can start.
47:34You're already on the floor.
47:35My thought is that I prefer real, but I am intrigued by the technology.
47:41I'm intrigued by not the superior part where it's thinking for us, but I have seen where
47:47even in my practice where you could help people with trauma.
47:51You could go into a virtual world and recreate a traumatic incident and help them work through
47:56it.
47:56So, I understand and I appreciate the evolution of the technology.
48:01But from an intellectual point of view, I would say I want to see where it goes.
48:05I want to see where it takes us as men.
48:07And I would say for all men, we have to always learn to evolve and adapt.
48:12That's a better word.
48:13Adapt with whatever our surroundings are.
48:16So, if the world is evolving into something, we men have to learn how to adapt and evolve
48:21with it to be able to not only survive, but thrive.
48:27Keith?
48:28Well, I'm very excited.
48:30How's your camera?
48:30I'm excited at the prospects of AI, what AI is going to give, you know, and what man could
48:36use AI for, you know, to really advance man from medicine right down to dealing with pollution,
48:44dealing with travel, everything like that.
48:45So, I'm excited about it.
48:46And with relationships-wise, you know, persons someday have many lonely people out there.
48:51It may be able to help with that too.
48:53Persons going through serious mental anguish and all that, the AI might be able to help
48:58too.
48:58So, I'm positive.
49:01I'm on the positive side of the AI here with respect to helping out man.
49:04So, I will have a go.
49:09You know, there's a, I don't know if they still use the term gigo or gigo or whatever,
49:12you know, garbage in, garbage out.
49:14And so, what you're putting is what you get out.
49:16But you have to know what you're putting in and what ultimately is going to happen.
49:20And it's no longer putting this, typing this message or this phrase in and this is going
49:24to come out as we are still in the ANI phase, the generative phase.
49:29So, we're still in a safe zone because we can control the outcome.
49:32When we start to get into the general intelligence and super intelligence is where we are now
49:36out of control.
49:38And men generally don't want to be out of control.
49:42So, I am old school.
49:44I like, I like the chase.
49:47I like to know, I like the touch and feel.
49:49And I can understand the fact that you put on, you know, these virtual reality devices.
49:54You might even be able to tell, as Nile pointed out, you know, we could be in that state now.
49:59Who knows?
49:59We don't know.
50:00But, you know, in my case, God is the boss.
50:05God comes first.
50:06I'm not trying to play God.
50:08I don't want anything that is even attempting to do that.
50:12And I believe in humanity.
50:15And I want to ensure that we know what we're doing.
50:19And it's all great now to assist, but it mustn't take over.
50:26Assist but not take over.
50:27My final thoughts would be, guys, no need to face something that we don't understand.
50:34We have had machines thinking for us for a very long time.
50:37Computers, Calculator.
50:38We have a lot of things.
50:40But don't let the male ego or the human ego override into a space where just because I don't understand it, I have to reject it.
50:49And last but not least, in terms of AI, go in and start looking at prompt engineering.
50:56I think that's a great place to start in getting to understand how as AI starts to change or take over people's jobs,
51:03you could start creating jobs around on the other side of it.
51:08And, you know, just to, sorry, I knew you were going to give us a nice close there,
51:13but just to also say that, as you mentioned about apps, that, you know, let's still hold on to our own creativity.
51:21You know, like, write your own wedding vows.
51:23You're writing a book.
51:25Let the person who you're sharing it with know that it's sincere and it's not generated.
51:29You know, let's take away the artificial intelligence and let's use real intelligence and show, you know,
51:39that something's meaningful and not created, generated.
51:42Okay.
51:43Yeah.
51:43So this is a lot of pause.
51:45Another good topic here on manhood.
51:48Johan C. Keith, thanks for joining us today.
51:50And Niall, this is manhood.
51:53AI, artificial intelligence.
51:55Manhood, brought to you in part by Reboot Sports Drink.