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00:00:01Manhood, brought to you by Jameson, natural sources since 1922 and Racetrack.
00:00:13Manhood, another big one, well it's always a big one because of the message that we send,
00:00:19what we attempt to send and I always want to start off reminding our listeners, the viewers,
00:00:25and we're really grateful and thankful that you take the time to be part of this show and what we're trying to do.
00:00:31And for you to remember that we are not speaking on behalf of all men, we are a few men talking to all men.
00:00:39The topics are always apt, very important, not just to our lives, to your lives, whether you know it or not.
00:00:46And today's topic is no different. Today we're talking about fatherhood.
00:00:51We all have fathers, or had fathers, and I'm always delighted to have, to my right,
00:00:59Johansi Iodike, behavior change consultant, a good friend, Wyatt Gallery, life coach, artist, photographer, you name it.
00:01:10He's done it. And another good friend, Jason Williams, affectionately known as JW, media personality,
00:01:17and unfortunately an Arsenal supporter, but, you know, I won't hold that against him.
00:01:24Wow, it's done.
00:01:26Started from the top, started from the top.
00:01:28Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:01:29So guys, you know, I always like to start off with a definition.
00:01:35It's not always the definition by the end of the show, but it's a definition to get us started.
00:01:40So if you'd allow me, just to bring up, got to get the glasses here.
00:01:47Fatherhood is a state or experience of being a father.
00:01:51It refers to the role and responsibilities of a man in relation to his children,
00:01:56typically as a parent who contributes to their physical, emotional, and social well-being.
00:02:02Fatherhood involves providing love, support, guidance, and protection to one's children,
00:02:08as well as being actively involved in their upbringing and development.
00:02:13And of course, it goes on to a lot more chat GPT, you know, you just put it in there
00:02:17and it just comes up with all sorts of good information,
00:02:20makes you sound really knowledgeable and skilled in this thing.
00:02:24So that's the AI definition.
00:02:25That's the AI definition.
00:02:26So again, it's a definition for us to start off, start that dialogue.
00:02:29You know, one of the things that I always grew up hearing was, you know,
00:02:33anyone can be a father, but it takes a lot to be a dad.
00:02:37You know, it's common knowledge.
00:02:40You know, I lost my dad recently and a lot came about as a result of that.
00:02:45A lot of revelations, you know, things that I'd taken for granted all along
00:02:53and that now that I look at it, my purpose almost has changed in somewhat,
00:02:59not just to my son and what I want to be for him,
00:03:02but also what I try to now encourage or show to friends, our listeners,
00:03:08to other people as to why they should do certain things with their dad,
00:03:12regardless of where you're at with regards to that relationship.
00:03:15So today's topic was supposed to be almost a change or a part two
00:03:22to what we were speaking about with regards to relationships
00:03:26and whether men should have girlfriends called female friends
00:03:30and whether females could have guy friends.
00:03:33And we had a really, you know, energetic and powerful discussion on that.
00:03:37But I thought it was really apt to bring this one to, you know,
00:03:41the name of the show is manhood, but what about fatherhood?
00:03:44You know, and it was something that I felt we have a responsibility
00:03:49to the next generation, to this generation, but also to the next generation,
00:03:55meaning people, you know, our fathers, persons older than us,
00:03:58persons our age, persons younger than us.
00:04:01But, you know, really and truly it's what we can control is,
00:04:05to a certain extent is our influence on the next generation.
00:04:08So gents, I've been kind of...
00:04:13The usual.
00:04:13The usual, the usual.
00:04:15So what's your take on fatherhood?
00:04:19Firstly, I would say I'm happy that you decided to do this,
00:04:23seeing that this month is Father's Day also.
00:04:26And I learned recently that this month is actually World Male Health Month.
00:04:32And that's important because I didn't even know that, right?
00:04:36And usually we hear all the other things.
00:04:39Right.
00:04:39And I, as a man, don't even know when I am being celebrated or when certain things are being,
00:04:46certain awarenesses are being brought up.
00:04:49So I am also going to take an active now, actually putting these things down.
00:04:53So even if I don't celebrate it in its fullness, at least I could bring awareness to that.
00:04:57So I'm thanking you for that.
00:04:59And that's one.
00:05:00And then two...
00:05:01Not to mention you also dated the program.
00:05:03So now they know exactly when this was filmed.
00:05:05But that's okay.
00:05:06That's okay.
00:05:07Cut that part, right?
00:05:09Right.
00:05:09So when you're saying a father, I realize that in my even thinking about what a father is,
00:05:16what came to me immediately was what I missed from my father.
00:05:22So at least in my experience, I didn't think about all the things that I got versus the things I didn't get.
00:05:27And thinking about it, when I ask others, many of them, I say more than 50%,
00:05:32their answer also was what they didn't get versus what they had, right?
00:05:36So I would say for now, my definition of a father is somebody who is simply there consistently, right?
00:05:44A male figure in my life or in someone's life that is there consistently.
00:05:50I'll start with that.
00:05:52What?
00:05:53Anybody jump in?
00:05:54Yeah.
00:05:55Yeah.
00:05:55I mean, I thought that definition was really good, actually.
00:05:58And the first word that comes to mind for me is a guide.
00:06:01And to guide in different ways, you know, could be spiritual, it could be right and wrong.
00:06:12And, you know, honestly, I'm really curious, like, what you just got, you know, from your dad passing away.
00:06:20Like, what the change in purpose and the revelations.
00:06:24Yeah.
00:06:25You know, because that's something I think about a lot with my dad, you know, being in his 80s.
00:06:29And so, I mean, I want to hear from Jay, but Jay, if you'd permit me, just as he asked.
00:06:35Of course, go right there.
00:06:37What was really, really profound for me was that over my dad's illness, I mean, my dad was always a very powerful figure for me.
00:06:46And hearing a lot of things after his death, I went through two emotions, one of pride and one of being pissed off.
00:06:54You know, because one, I was pissed off that he never shared that with me because he was a man, you know, very humble person in terms of who never was a boastful person.
00:07:03And I was also pissed off at people who were telling me, I was like, well, one, where were you all this time?
00:07:08And two, why are you now, you know, why am I now finding this information out?
00:07:13Like I found out, for example, Prince Charles, now King Charles, when he went to the Royal Air Force, my dad was his personal parachute instructor.
00:07:23Wow.
00:07:24That's powerful.
00:07:25Yeah.
00:07:25You know, I'm like, oh, you never share that with me, you know?
00:07:30And although he shared a lot of stuff.
00:07:31I find dads can be so humble like that.
00:07:34Like they don't share, you know, what's that about?
00:07:36Is that like a taught thing of manhood?
00:07:39Is that really humility?
00:07:41Because as he said, I'm thinking about things.
00:07:44I even recently found out about my father and I was like, why didn't you just say something?
00:07:48You don't have to go around saying that, you know, you're boasting.
00:07:50But he said, hey, you know, well, I did X, Y, Z.
00:07:52Yeah, exactly.
00:07:53Yeah.
00:07:54We should be able to share without it being boasting.
00:07:56I don't know, like, you know, I mean, as we go along on this particular episode or this conversation, as I like to say,
00:08:03there are a lot of revelations that I, that not just with my dad, but in terms of what the perception of a man,
00:08:10like I would listen to things about, you know, as we can talk later on about men and crying or men and children,
00:08:17you know, how children fear their fathers.
00:08:19And, you know, there were many, there were two sides that I found really profound for me.
00:08:26But just to say that the biggest revelation for me with dad was when he first was diagnosed about eight or nine years ago,
00:08:33that pushed me to do things like a marathon to raise money for him or join the Trinidad and Tobago Cancer Society.
00:08:40He didn't reveal that he was sick.
00:08:43He didn't want anyone to know.
00:08:44But once he started to experience the, all the procedures,
00:08:49it became to the point that he now became very dependent on me or the family.
00:08:54And I became immediately almost the patriarch, but without knowing it,
00:08:58you would just go on every day, just doing what it took.
00:09:00You know, they say, what you focus on is what you see.
00:09:03And what I did is I focused on making sure he survived.
00:09:08But in making sure he survived, I lost sight that that's my dad.
00:09:11It was just became a mission.
00:09:14And so when he went to hospital this time around,
00:09:17I thought it was just another, another, you know,
00:09:21somebody else to call, somebody in the ministry,
00:09:24somebody somewhere else to assist in his progression.
00:09:29And when I got the call to head up to the hospital,
00:09:33I was like, what?
00:09:34What's going on here?
00:09:36And it was in the final 10 minutes,
00:09:39I went from always being that resolute person
00:09:45that would to protect him or help him survive
00:09:47to immediately feeling like a child being abandoned.
00:09:51And that was so profound for me.
00:09:53Like, wait, dad.
00:09:54Even as a big man, he felt that way.
00:09:56Even though I was a big man and the person that was looking after him,
00:09:58I felt that, hey, wait, you're going, you're leaving me here?
00:10:01What was that one?
00:10:02That type of thing.
00:10:03While saying the words, it's okay, you can go.
00:10:06That type of thing.
00:10:07And the responsibility at that point of realizing that
00:10:11even though I wasn't aware of it at the time,
00:10:13I was always trying to make him proud, you know,
00:10:16it would always be something that I'd call him for,
00:10:18but not recognizing those things.
00:10:21So in realizing now that, hey, wait, now,
00:10:24I now have to do things,
00:10:25my son is probably going to do the same for me
00:10:27and I have to do things for my child.
00:10:31The takeaway, as you asked Wyatt,
00:10:33was simply that you always think you have the time.
00:10:39More than anything else, you know, people,
00:10:40even the amount of people that showed up at the funeral,
00:10:43you're like, why aren't we there for the living?
00:10:46Why do we show, you know,
00:10:47I had family flying in from all over the world.
00:10:49And I'm like, well, you haven't been to Trinidad in 20, 30 years,
00:10:52but the man has now passed and we're all showing up
00:10:55and we come by and all the rest of it.
00:10:57But why aren't we there for the living?
00:10:59And so I'd said to myself that on that weekend,
00:11:04I was going to go up and ask him,
00:11:06do you have anything that you want to share with me?
00:11:09Like, get off your chest type thing.
00:11:11And I wanted to tell him as much as I'd shown up,
00:11:14how I felt I showed up, I wanted to apologize
00:11:17and to say, you know what, I see you, dad.
00:11:20And that day never came.
00:11:23So I tried to show and try to speak to all young men, women,
00:11:28regardless of what your relationship is with your father,
00:11:32you don't want to live with that guilt.
00:11:35Yeah.
00:11:36You want to be able to tell them, give them that opportunity.
00:11:40Because when they're dead, they're dead.
00:11:41You're still living.
00:11:43And you now have to be the one that is now saying,
00:11:46well, I wish I'd told him something.
00:11:48Well, the interesting thing is, you know,
00:11:49that's something I, nobody really gave me a template or a guideline,
00:11:54but it's something I would have done with my dad,
00:11:57who also passed on.
00:11:58He passed on in 2021.
00:11:59And when he passed on, I felt, of course,
00:12:03you know, getting that news was a phone call.
00:12:05So for about five seconds, I felt a moment of sadness.
00:12:08And after that, I was very calm.
00:12:10And my dad was absent in my life.
00:12:13However, when I came of age in my 20s,
00:12:17started to work in media.
00:12:19As a matter of fact, I took a loan, I remember.
00:12:20I didn't even save up.
00:12:22I just got a vapes a day and I took a loan
00:12:24and I went up to New York to see him.
00:12:25I would have seen him a couple of times growing up too,
00:12:28but I could probably count on one hand.
00:12:30And I went up and I made peace
00:12:32and I've made numerous trips to the U.S.
00:12:35and every single time it was always an olive branch of forgiveness.
00:12:39I actually see those words, you know, the time done pass.
00:12:43This is now.
00:12:45Let's get to know each other.
00:12:46I want to get to know you.
00:12:47I hear so much great things about you, you know,
00:12:50because the funny thing is my personality
00:12:52and my spirit is more or less the exact same thing,
00:12:55even though I spent no time with the man.
00:12:57I've just been able to turn it into a career,
00:12:59but he was life of the party, a lyricist,
00:13:03a man, you know, full of talks, chat, love sports,
00:13:06every single thing that I have an interest in football.
00:13:08He loves football.
00:13:09Track and field, he loves track and field.
00:13:11Dr. Steamfish, I would ask him certain questions.
00:13:14I like Steamfish.
00:13:15My father's a Steamfish man.
00:13:16He bears, he's a bears man.
00:13:17And so I say, but I'm a real, literally, what do they say?
00:13:22I'm a clone?
00:13:23Carbon copy.
00:13:23Carbon copy.
00:13:24Even though he didn't play a role,
00:13:26but I get to realize now as I got older
00:13:28that probably he not being there was also,
00:13:34probably by design, by the creator,
00:13:36a saving grace because he was also,
00:13:39as much as the personality and the persona was a big one,
00:13:44he was also probably a hard man too, I get to realize.
00:13:48And probably me not being around and seeing
00:13:50and experiencing that hardness is what kind of shaped me
00:13:53into who I am.
00:13:55So I think fatherhood for me is two things.
00:13:57It's a template.
00:14:00It's understanding history.
00:14:03And I was able to get that through my interaction with him.
00:14:05And it was always cordial.
00:14:07I mean, I used to really just wish he would express himself
00:14:10a little bit more, but I knew I was at peace.
00:14:13I was at total peace because I knew I would have tried
00:14:15multiple times over.
00:14:18And I think fatherhood for me is, at this point in time,
00:14:20as a father, redemption.
00:14:22Because ultimately, my son, I treat with him the way
00:14:26I wish my father would have treated with me.
00:14:28So in a way, I am fathering my son and also myself.
00:14:31I literally am a father too.
00:14:34It's like I assume the role of what I thought my dad
00:14:38should have been.
00:14:39And I literally just...
00:14:41What you needed.
00:14:41Yeah, so it's like it's a healing.
00:14:44And I think it came full circle when I took my son
00:14:47to see him in 2018.
00:14:49So as I always make a joke with my son,
00:14:50and I see him meet your grandfather twice.
00:14:52It was the first and last.
00:14:53Because that was literally the only time
00:14:55my son would have met my father.
00:14:58And I thought to me when all of us were together,
00:15:00and we took that picture on the balcony in Florida
00:15:02when I left the...
00:15:03It was on Monday.
00:15:04I knew that was the full circle.
00:15:06I knew that was it.
00:15:07I knew it.
00:15:08I knew it.
00:15:08I knew that was it.
00:15:10And so it literally was it.
00:15:12And one of the things that you said there, Jay,
00:15:14you know, we speak about tough love.
00:15:18And maybe, you know, one of the things that even as a dad myself,
00:15:24and maybe you experienced it where you do try to make up
00:15:27or you do try to father your children,
00:15:31how maybe so many things that you felt that you were missing.
00:15:33But again, I come back to that term,
00:15:36what you focus on is what you see.
00:15:39And like we are now, we're doing the best we can.
00:15:44You know, I am always...
00:15:45But you never know that about your parents.
00:15:47That's why people have the resentment
00:15:48and need to let go and have the peace that you're talking about
00:15:51because you never think, you always expect so much.
00:15:53Why didn't they do this?
00:15:54Why didn't they do that?
00:15:55How come it wasn't there?
00:15:56You know, and you don't know what your parents are going through.
00:15:59Yeah.
00:16:00Outside of them trying to be there for you.
00:16:02You know, and I think it's huge.
00:16:03Like you have to let it go.
00:16:06You have to forgive.
00:16:08And what I'm hearing from you guys too is that
00:16:11you're being conscious about how you're showing up as a father.
00:16:16You're choosing what type of father you want to be.
00:16:19And I think that's really important to be a conscious parent
00:16:23versus just going on an autopilot.
00:16:26And I'd love to hear what you have to say
00:16:27about how the brain works and everything, our behaviors.
00:16:29But like you could just autopilot
00:16:31because that's what you grew up with, right?
00:16:33Your reactions and how you react to what the kids are doing.
00:16:38Because I've always heard there are fathers
00:16:39who are actually present but absent at the same time.
00:16:41They're physically there.
00:16:42Totally.
00:16:43But they're just emotionally.
00:16:44And again, up in their head, thinking about work, you know, whatever.
00:16:47But we will hear from your auntie.
00:16:49I think we all want to hear about how, you know,
00:16:52the science of that and how the brain works.
00:16:55But we have to take that pause.
00:16:56Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:57No problem.
00:16:57So, you know, again, guys,
00:16:58I wish you could hear somebody behind the scenes.
00:17:02Really important discussion.
00:17:03We're talking about fatherhood on manhood.
00:17:04So, thanks for staying with us,
00:17:18having really, really, some really good dialogue here.
00:17:21Johan, say, Wyatt, JW.
00:17:23We, before we went to the break, we spoke,
00:17:25this is now fatherhood on manhood.
00:17:27And we were speaking about being a conscious dad.
00:17:29You know, some dads are there.
00:17:31You're there, but you're not there.
00:17:32And, you know, Wyatt, you're also asking about the science behind that,
00:17:37being a present dad.
00:17:43And the tone of that.
00:17:45Johan, say, you know, do your thing.
00:17:47All right.
00:17:47So, men, first I want to say that manhood in itself is a powerful thing.
00:17:53When men sit down and we gather and we speak in positive things.
00:17:57But for me today, I think this is one of the most powerful conversations we've had.
00:18:01Because all of us have dads, whether they'd cease or not,
00:18:05but we had fathers.
00:18:07And they had serious impacts on us, whether or not they were present or not.
00:18:11I've heard a quote, you know, your dad, as a man, as a male,
00:18:16your dad influences your life, whether he is there or not.
00:18:19And hearing this, and even for myself, rings true.
00:18:23We're talking about the science behind it,
00:18:26whether a father being present can be present physically and emotionally.
00:18:30Because I have realized what makes a father,
00:18:37what makes a man have so many dynamics is there's no exact science behind it.
00:18:43Because most times what we end up doing is doing the thing that we missed.
00:18:48Most times, and or doing the thing that, the only thing that we saw.
00:18:54And in this day and age, because there's so much information,
00:18:59and whether sometimes we're seeking it or not, we get the information.
00:19:03We now could start to troubleshoot on how to be a better father.
00:19:07Or even, is that working as a father?
00:19:09Even if it's not you you're looking at, there's so much information on it.
00:19:13So I would say there's a plus, there's so much information now,
00:19:16because now we could troubleshoot and kind of decide what we're taking,
00:19:19what we're not taking, et cetera.
00:19:21And then, of course, there's facilities like this.
00:19:23Because I'm sure, back in the day before this,
00:19:26men did sit and have conversations,
00:19:28but only a few would be privy to it.
00:19:30So now that we're troubleshooting, right?
00:19:33Again, nobody know more than anybody.
00:19:35We're pulling and we're consolidating what we know.
00:19:38Then more people are able to hear it.
00:19:41It's so true what you said, because it goes back to, again,
00:19:44my dad not being there, but yet still I'm so much like him.
00:19:47And I get to realize that through going out, meeting him,
00:19:50interacting and recognizing that,
00:19:51boy, this is me.
00:19:53And I think there was a power too in him not being there.
00:19:56I think it actually made me man up pretty early.
00:20:01I went out, I was in the work scene from the tender age of probably 14,
00:20:04wanting to help out at home, you know.
00:20:06Thank goodness, too, I think, you know, what was my saving grace
00:20:09was a strong and very present mom.
00:20:13And she still is very much present and a real motivator,
00:20:17motivating factor for me.
00:20:18So her and, of course, funnily enough, her brothers, right?
00:20:23My uncles stepped up.
00:20:24I had uncles who stepped up.
00:20:26I had his, my father's friends would have stepped up to my godfather.
00:20:29Some of his personal friends were like, you know what?
00:20:32We have to kind of rally around this young man.
00:20:34So there were factors and it had a community that helped me out.
00:20:40But ultimately, in terms of my dad, you know, no regrets, really.
00:20:44You know, I looked at his particular example,
00:20:49and I told myself, as I would have mentioned in the first segment,
00:20:52it's a chance for me now to kind of go at it at a different angle.
00:20:57So because I had no template, how I approach fatherhood with my son
00:21:00is more of a big brother, little brother kind of role,
00:21:03where I'm very open, very transparent, very authentic.
00:21:07That's huge.
00:21:08It is.
00:21:08I do use profanities, though.
00:21:10We don't get to that point yet.
00:21:11He's going to be 17 in a couple of days.
00:21:14But we speak.
00:21:16Sometimes the conversations, he has a bit risky,
00:21:18and especially when he's coming into his teens,
00:21:20he will bring certain questions to me.
00:21:22It was like, wait, make me cringe a little bit,
00:21:23but I was real.
00:21:24Right.
00:21:25But without going too, too real just yet.
00:21:27But we can sit down and we can rap,
00:21:29and we actually operate like brothers.
00:21:31That's literally how we operate.
00:21:33It's not father and son.
00:21:34It's more big brother, little brother.
00:21:35That vulnerability is so powerful.
00:21:38I think a lot of men, especially our father's generations probably,
00:21:43were taught that they need to be closed down, closed off.
00:21:48I'm controlling what I show you.
00:21:51To have that full transparency, I think that is what is a man.
00:21:57So I'll give you a hack, right?
00:21:58A real quick hack.
00:21:59What I do, I don't go through his phone.
00:22:01It's not like I will pick up his phone.
00:22:02And since he's small, funny enough, I'll give him that respect and that privacy.
00:22:06I'll knock his door, he'll knock my door to come in.
00:22:09So what we do, we have the same ID.
00:22:12We share the same ID.
00:22:14So in essence, his pictures, my pictures, we both get access to it.
00:22:18And so far, nothing cringy, nothing really shocking.
00:22:22And then I don't have anything that's out of time on my phone.
00:22:25So that is a kind of...
00:22:25You have a burner phone?
00:22:27Well, I mean, I have two.
00:22:28I have another phone.
00:22:29Okay, okay.
00:22:30Let's be real.
00:22:31It's like a real open door kind of policy.
00:22:33Like literally full transparency.
00:22:35You know, my passcodes from my credit cards, my bank card, everything.
00:22:41You know, I think about this all the time with my son, both my kids, that one of the things
00:22:45I want most as they get older is that they would feel comfortable coming to me with anything,
00:22:50to talk about anything, to be fully open.
00:22:53Whether they're scared to tell me, whether it's something bad, something they regret,
00:22:58you know, whatever it is.
00:23:00Like I feel like that is a huge sign of success as a parent, as a father, you know?
00:23:06And I don't know exactly how to get there, but I know that that's like one of the things
00:23:12I want the most.
00:23:13And, you know, I saw this study the other day where it said, in actuality, your parents
00:23:20are not the main force behind how you end up as a child.
00:23:25It's your closest community.
00:23:27The societal influence.
00:23:28Yeah, so the uncles, the teachers, right?
00:23:31That first ring around and around the child.
00:23:35So, you know, it's not all on you.
00:23:38It's not all on me, which I think is great to think about, right?
00:23:42But we can design our community, our village, so that he's getting input from you.
00:23:49He's getting input from the Kung Fu teacher, you know?
00:23:53And I know for me personally, I got a lot from my dad, but I also got a lot from my first
00:23:58boss when I was doing roofing, you know, at age 16.
00:24:02Like this dude was so philosophical.
00:24:04And I can remember all these one-liners he told me to this day that I still use as my life
00:24:10tools, you know?
00:24:12So I think it's important to have, first of all, take the pressure off of ourselves that
00:24:17it's all on us to be the perfect fathers, right?
00:24:20And then also, though, to allow the uncles, allow the teachers, allow the sports coaches
00:24:27to be there in that way, too.
00:24:30They're not crossing a line by disciplining, you know, by speaking in a certain way.
00:24:35You know, they're all guides.
00:24:37And, you know, you guys touched on a couple of things there that I just want to bring
00:24:41into context.
00:24:42You know, one of the things would be, you know, we spoke about tough love initially.
00:24:46But again, you know, I mentioned it for the third time, you know, what you focus on is
00:24:51what you see.
00:24:52And is it that...
00:24:54I'm terrible at tough love.
00:24:56I know.
00:24:57I try, man.
00:24:59But, you know, again, you know...
00:25:01That's all right.
00:25:01I'm trying.
00:25:02I'm conscious about it, Mike.
00:25:03But like you said, there's no...
00:25:05We're doing our best.
00:25:07And in part of doing our best, there's a couple of things I want to address.
00:25:10You know, first off, you know, you always hear this saying, it takes a village to raise
00:25:13a child.
00:25:14And we can't have an influence.
00:25:16You know, first off, our decision must be to be present.
00:25:20That's the one thing.
00:25:21You might be able to do your best.
00:25:22You might not have all the answers.
00:25:24But you can decide to be present.
00:25:26But if your dad isn't present, one of the things that we always hear is that a mother
00:25:31can never replace a father, and a father can never replace a mother.
00:25:36There's just different aspects of it.
00:25:39Robert, your testimony work in Mary and Mary, because you have a few points...
00:25:43That's all right.
00:25:44I want to hit these points here, right?
00:25:47So the other aspect of that would be whether you're present or not, like you said, you have
00:25:53an influence, and we speak about in being part of that circle, and we do the best that we
00:26:02can do, and we don't know what our parents go through.
00:26:05When we are now parents ourselves, we are now dads ourselves, and we can reflect and
00:26:09say, ah, like I look back and I say, now I can see what my mother had to go through,
00:26:14or now I can see what my dad may have endured.
00:26:16Do we now look at maybe some of our children, our citizens in society who had to grow up
00:26:25without dads, and who had to join a pack, who had to join a gang?
00:26:29And I'm not talking about gang just in a violent sense.
00:26:31I'm talking about they're, oh, maybe they'd be basketball, football, or literally a gang
00:26:35without fathers, that in their cases, you know, now, you know, that they look back, and
00:26:42we judge that particular situation, that they, you know, they did the best they could.
00:26:49So, in the sense that that father, now that they may be fathers themselves, might look back
00:26:54now, and that same aggression or resentment that they feel to their dad, they now understand,
00:26:59okay, well, now I understand why he's not around, because I'm doing the best I can, and
00:27:03that mightn't be being able to take care of children, because you did the act.
00:27:08It's, again, we come back to that whole thing about the difference between being a father
00:27:12and a dad, you know, anybody can father a child.
00:27:15But I wanted to go on with another point, but I want to hear yours.
00:27:17All right, so let me summarize quickly.
00:27:20What you're saying about your relationship with your son, you all are like brothers,
00:27:23and then, Wyatt, what you said about sometimes fathers take on the role, I would say, let's
00:27:28call it a little too seriously.
00:27:30What I realize is, when we have certain terms, and we're using father now, we think about it
00:27:36in a superhuman manner, right?
00:27:38So, because I have this title, I'm now above human.
00:27:41And so, when we look at it, we don't expect human things.
00:27:44But I'm saying, now, let's bring it back to the level.
00:27:47We are all humans interacting with each other, humans of different ages.
00:27:52Right.
00:27:52So, if we look at ourselves as human, and we look at our children as human, then the interaction
00:27:57change, then the point behind the interaction change.
00:28:00And because we are human, that means we're not perfect.
00:28:03Yeah.
00:28:04Right?
00:28:04And our children would learn.
00:28:06We're perfect in our imperfection.
00:28:09Perfect imperfection.
00:28:10That is exactly it.
00:28:11Going deep.
00:28:13And understanding that we are able to expose our flaws to our children.
00:28:18So, you could say, you know, daddy make a mistake.
00:28:20Yeah.
00:28:21Or for them to say, you know, I lose my composure in this moment.
00:28:24Or, you know what?
00:28:25It's hard for me to do tough love, but I could do other things.
00:28:29And then I will add what we're speaking about, the uncle influences on the other male.
00:28:34I think innately, and this was some research I was doing recently, innately, that all of
00:28:39us strive and crave the tribe.
00:28:43Right?
00:28:43All of us inside the village.
00:28:45Right?
00:28:46Whether it's the village of the mixed male and female or the village of men.
00:28:49So, even now, the research has shown that the nuclear family is actually unhealthy.
00:28:56It's an unhealthy combination.
00:28:57That's mother, father, child.
00:28:59That's unhealthy because each person needs that interaction from outside.
00:29:04Right?
00:29:05So, then, now, that's why with our boys, with our sons especially, being ourselves, important.
00:29:13Right?
00:29:14I think I covered most of the points we spoke about, the voice, why a male voice is important.
00:29:21Because I did this research, actually, in couples' relationships, why sometimes women
00:29:27are able to manipulate men.
00:29:28But that's the start of it.
00:29:29But I'll tell you.
00:29:31We males, we are programmed to respond different ways to different tones.
00:29:36So, when we hear somebody in distress, so let's say a child's voice, because a child's
00:29:40voice, naturally, is a higher tone, kind of in distress, we would react assertively.
00:29:45So, that's why sometimes, when women wanted to get to do something, they'll say, well,
00:29:48give me this now, and they kind of raised their voice.
00:29:50Right?
00:29:51But when you hear the deep tone, you react differently.
00:29:54It reveres.
00:29:55It's like the bass in a drum.
00:29:57The bass in a drum gets you a different kind of reaction.
00:30:00So, when that father says something, now, even though the father's voice may not be the
00:30:05deepest, the seriousness of the tone, is what reverberates in that child's mind, and they
00:30:11react differently to it.
00:30:13Are you responding to what I was talking about with regards to the tough love aspect of it,
00:30:17where they say children sometimes react to their dad out of fear?
00:30:20And I was rebutting that to say that it's not fear.
00:30:24It's fear of their bad choice.
00:30:26So, that a son loves, like, for example, my son, we get on like a house on fire, you
00:30:32know, there's a lot of affection there.
00:30:37The only thing is, when he makes a bad choice, and his mother tells him to do something, and
00:30:41I come in and say it, it's not just because of the baritone, it's also the fact that he
00:30:46knows he's doing wrong, he's aware of that, and the choice, that choice, is what he's in
00:30:51fear of, not in fear of the person.
00:30:53And we were discussing that, and you guys had some...
00:30:57You know, I get to realize, especially with my son, and I think it's something I learned
00:31:02also through how my mom would have set a high standard.
00:31:06As big as I am, big, hard-back man sitting down here with all your fellas, I don't want
00:31:10to bring no kind of embarrassment to my mother, you know.
00:31:12I tell no mama's boy thing.
00:31:14It's just a scenario where it would break my heart, I'll probably break, I can't say
00:31:18probably, it would break my heart to see my mother in a courthouse or a winter.
00:31:22You know, I do some piece of nonsense now.
00:31:23So I realize my discipline is disappointment.
00:31:27Anytime, I don't use the word often, but if I was to use that word around my son, I'll
00:31:31mash him up.
00:31:32If I say, bro, I, disappointment, boy, where's that boy?
00:31:35Right.
00:31:36Full up, more than, and I never hit him, I don't, I not into beating children, I...
00:31:40Yeah, agreed.
00:31:41I not into that.
00:31:41I not into boy-child, girl-child, nobody.
00:31:44I not into burning nobody's skin.
00:31:45But I think that word used at the right time if you watch a child and say, listen,
00:31:50Yeah.
00:31:51Why, boy?
00:31:52Son?
00:31:53It's like an arrow to the heart.
00:31:54You disappoint, my boy.
00:31:55Yeah.
00:31:55And you walk off, oh, oh!
00:31:58I try to mash up because it's like, oh, I could disappoint daddy.
00:32:01And my son, honestly, I realize he's a man who would disappoint me at all.
00:32:04Hence, I watch how he kind of conducting himself and, you know, he's moving real measured now.
00:32:10And I hope he just stay like that.
00:32:11I'll just pray for that.
00:32:12To me, my greatest success would be me being a successful, me bringing up Jalen to be functional
00:32:17and to be an asset to the community.
00:32:20To me, that's a greater success.
00:32:21Your legacy.
00:32:21Yeah.
00:32:22So I think that's a, I want to hear your point, but we need to take a break.
00:32:26All right.
00:32:26Um, and when we come back, of course, we want to really wrap things up and present, um,
00:32:32you know, a real definition, we start off with one.
00:32:35We want to really come to what, what maybe our understanding is of fatherhood and to go
00:32:40into the other types of fathers that we see, even with the non-biological ones.
00:32:43So you have child father, you have sugar daddy, you have what a baby daddy is, and all of those
00:32:49have an influence on the next generation for the negative or the positive.
00:32:54So where you have, you know, um, your legacy, you know, that, that's going to be your greatest
00:32:59achievement and how your son would react to that.
00:33:02Others may not react to that because they simply don't have their father around, hence
00:33:06your child father and all the other terms that we hear.
00:33:12So we're taking a quick break, some, some, some quick convo, and then we'll rejoin.
00:33:16So again, um, I think, I think we really have to start, um, recording some of these behind
00:33:34the scenes conversations.
00:33:35We're going to try and have that, bring it, bring it to the fore now.
00:33:38Um, we're here talking on manhood about fatherhood, very, very important.
00:33:42And, um, you know, the fact is that the episode or this particular conversation today, the timing
00:33:49will run out and it will end, but the conversation and the realization and the subject matter never
00:33:55ends.
00:33:55So we hope to continue having these conversations like this on manhood.
00:34:00Um, before we went to the break, we were speaking about, um, of course, fatherhood.
00:34:05And I said that we were going to come back to speak about the various types, child father,
00:34:12baby daddy, sugar daddy.
00:34:14And I know we had some raised eyebrows as to how sugar daddy really fits into this, but
00:34:19it comes down to the absence, the possible absence of a father figure in a young girl's
00:34:25life.
00:34:25Me then have her look now to, we're not talking before everybody calm down.
00:34:30We're not talking about equality and all these other things again.
00:34:33Um, we're talking simply about women who look to be taken care of and the, whether it's
00:34:40affectionate or negative term is used or a sugar daddy, right?
00:34:43It still comes under to that term.
00:34:45There's a reason behind it, which you could go on with regards to the science.
00:34:49Um, child father.
00:34:53I guess, yeah, that's, um, that's me.
00:34:57Cause I mean, I'm not married to my son's mom, but you know what?
00:35:00We cool, you know, we real good, um, co-parent.
00:35:03Um, cordial relationship, you know, we would have had a little twist and turns in between,
00:35:08but she never deny my son.
00:35:10And I guess officially, um, yeah.
00:35:12I mean, I don't like the word.
00:35:13I don't use it.
00:35:13So then maybe it's not child father, you know, because a child father has a certain connotation
00:35:17to it.
00:35:17Correct.
00:35:18Because if you all co-parenting, then it's not child father.
00:35:21So I don't child father then.
00:35:22So why is that?
00:35:23What is the science saying?
00:35:24As a father?
00:35:25Yeah.
00:35:26As a father.
00:35:26As a father then?
00:35:27Yeah.
00:35:27As a child father then?
00:35:28As a child father then?
00:35:29I told her child father.
00:35:31That's what a child father then?
00:35:32Nah, because child father is a, is a, is a local slang, right?
00:35:36Or baby daddy, right?
00:35:37That, that's a slang in itself.
00:35:38And I guess if the person's kind of absent too.
00:35:40Correct.
00:35:40Yes.
00:35:41Yes.
00:35:42So then, so that, that's kind of what to make the person kind of off to the side.
00:35:46Oh, no, no, no.
00:35:46Right?
00:35:46So he's a child father.
00:35:47So if both of y'all are healthy parents, co-parenting, then he's a father.
00:35:52Yeah.
00:35:52I think co-parenting is a much bigger thing now, or at least more, it's more of the norm,
00:35:59a norm.
00:35:59Yeah.
00:36:00Yeah.
00:36:00A norm, right?
00:36:02Yeah.
00:36:02In, in the, in the past.
00:36:04And I think, I think we're in a stage now where you don't have to just be married to
00:36:10have a good relationship and to create a good upbringing for your child.
00:36:15I think that you can do that in many different ways.
00:36:18So I think like, you know, being a father, being present, that doesn't mean you have to
00:36:22be there every day.
00:36:23That doesn't mean, you know, you're in the same house, but it does mean that you're consciously
00:36:29showing up for that child.
00:36:31You're, you're, you're bringing love, you're bringing guidance, you're bringing, you're
00:36:34being a responsible person.
00:36:36And I also feel that women who deny men access to their children, I mean, that's a whole different
00:36:40conversation.
00:36:41And that's a real unfortunate, unfortunate decision some women make.
00:36:47Yeah.
00:36:47And I have to say, that was not my experience.
00:36:50That was not my reality.
00:36:51I was at full access.
00:36:53And it only hurts a child.
00:36:54Yeah.
00:36:54It, you know, and especially a boy child too.
00:36:56And I think that, you know, women need to really recalibrate regardless of what you and
00:37:00the man went through, regardless of what is used.
00:37:02That is something that must be in, in the realm of history.
00:37:07Yeah.
00:37:08In your, in your, in your, in your back.
00:37:09I agree with what you're saying.
00:37:10That can make no sense.
00:37:12What you're saying, they're wired.
00:37:13So even if the presence is important, because even if the child's mother does whatever, we
00:37:20can't control her behavior.
00:37:21I don't know if I mentioned it before, but there, there's a case when I was working in
00:37:25a separation case and the child's mother was actually doing that, keeping the boy away
00:37:29from the father.
00:37:30He, the court gave him visitation rights, et cetera.
00:37:32So it's on paper, but she was keeping her away.
00:37:34And he got one day a week, which was a Sunday, and he would go to the, the, where the child
00:37:40lives every Sunday and just stand up by the gate.
00:37:43Right.
00:37:44And the child would just look out the window and he, he tried to come and say, cause the
00:37:48paper said that, but he didn't get to, but he's, he did that every day.
00:37:53I think it was for five years, every week, sorry, for five years.
00:37:56He just went, went there.
00:37:57Now tell him, when I tell him, sometimes it's getting me emotional because that, that's
00:38:01a man who, when I say pain, he used to come and cry, you know, cry because every time,
00:38:06it's not to say he don't want to see son, he used to come to the gate, see him a Sunday.
00:38:10And when his son turned 18, what is, so, and he had the opportunity and he said to go live
00:38:16with his father.
00:38:17What he said is that even though I didn't get to physically talk to you, somewhere in his
00:38:22mind, he knew his father was there.
00:38:23Every week he say, you know what, Sunday, I will get to see my father.
00:38:28And so, so as you say in presence, it may not be physically there.
00:38:32So, so even employing the, the fathers, even no matter however the mother is, right.
00:38:38And I'm not saying it's fair either.
00:38:39It's not fair, but that consistency, even if it's a message, that child know Sunday at
00:38:45seven o'clock, I getting a message from my father.
00:38:47Right.
00:38:48Right.
00:38:48So that even in find a way, psychologically, they know that the father there.
00:38:52One of the things that, you know, as a, as a dad, you know, I hear, I hear sometimes,
00:38:57you know, by friends of mine or, or, or refer to other friends and this term babysitting,
00:39:03you know, how, how it's, how it's deemed when, when, you know, you're, you're, you're there
00:39:07and it's, it's, the wife decides to, wife, girlfriend or co-parenting decides to go out
00:39:14and do something.
00:39:14Oh, you're, you're babysitting boy.
00:39:16And I, I always take, take, take her back by that.
00:39:19I'm like, babysitting.
00:39:20Can I babysit you on chair?
00:39:21Right, right.
00:39:21It's my son.
00:39:22I'm not babysitting.
00:39:23And it's that, it's that, you know, and I.
00:39:26That's crazy.
00:39:26But, but in doing that, when I, when I have those moments, um, where the whole day or
00:39:32maybe a week or if she's traveling or whatever the case may be, I have to do everything.
00:39:36I have such an appreciation, not just for her, but for my own mother to say, wow, you
00:39:41know, you raised four children, what it takes to be, to be that mother, but also what it
00:39:47takes to be a dad.
00:39:48Cause I mean, dads like, like you are, you know, how, you know, a lot of times I see
00:39:52you taking, you take, you know, you, you are, you are very present for your kids.
00:39:56Over the pandemic, I had to step in and, uh, become more full-time dad, which was not
00:40:01my plan.
00:40:03And, uh, and I never, ever had any understanding how hard it is to be a parent, to be the main
00:40:10kind of caregiver for your children.
00:40:12And it made me, like you said, um, have so much more respect for moms who are usually the
00:40:20ones that have to put their career on hold and, and be home with the child more.
00:40:25And, uh, and it's tough, man.
00:40:28It is because you start questioning, who am I?
00:40:30Yeah.
00:40:30And it's exhausting, not just physically, but emotionally, mentally, it is really
00:40:36challenging, you know, and, and this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my
00:40:40life, actually.
00:40:41And one of the other realizations in, in that is in my moments of doing that or in
00:40:47my moments of having to, you know, cause you're there and you feel, you feel this
00:40:51pressure to shape this human being or human beings.
00:40:54And there are many times I'm like, I haven't even figured it out myself.
00:40:58Oh yeah.
00:40:58You know, how am I, how am I shaping you?
00:41:01And I want to do the best job because I don't want, as you had mentioned about, you know,
00:41:05the, the uncles and the, and that other ring ultimately will shape that, that societal
00:41:10influence.
00:41:11There's still that pressure that the information I'm giving you, the advice I'm giving you,
00:41:16what you're looking at, because it's not just what I'm saying, it's what you're looking
00:41:20at in my own actions.
00:41:21I feel like I'm totally, I'm always really conscious and that anxiety to ensure that
00:41:26I'm, I'm doing well.
00:41:28Well, you're human.
00:41:29So now that we understand that you're human and even in that quest to find the right thing,
00:41:35being honest, because let your son or your daughter see that, you know, daddy don't know
00:41:40everything, you know, but daddy doing, daddy making the effort.
00:41:43So, so even stuff, we, we, we spoke about a few times.
00:41:46But do you recognize that though?
00:41:48Again, only when you, when you are a certain age, can you look back and recognize what they
00:41:54were trying to do?
00:41:54But at that point, my son is six, for example, now, and I say that to him and said, you know,
00:41:59I'm, I'm doing my best.
00:42:00He, he's not cognizant of that to him.
00:42:02It's like, you can't buy me that motorbike or you can't take me to that pool.
00:42:05That's fine.
00:42:06You may not even have to say, you may not even have to tell them.
00:42:09You may not have to actually tell them you're doing your best, you know, just do your best.
00:42:15Right.
00:42:15And they would realize that just like how I realize it later on.
00:42:19Most of what we said, we realize it later on.
00:42:21You just do, you just, you don't even have to try to convince your children of it.
00:42:25You just do as much as you could do because effort, a child will always feel the effort.
00:42:31You could be on the next side of the world.
00:42:32If you want your child to know something, know something in that moment, you will do everything.
00:42:37Right.
00:42:37You could send a telegram, whatever, something will reach that child for that child to know, you know, a daddy there with me.
00:42:44And also they're, they're watching everything we do.
00:42:47They absorb everything.
00:42:48So I think they're learning from, from watching, you know, it's like we, we are teaching by how we show up and how our actions, not just by what we say to do, you know?
00:42:58So, you know, that's so important because the reason I kind of went down that authentic and transparent road, I remember talking to a great uncle.
00:43:06So that was my grandfather's brother passed away now, Uncle Freddy.
00:43:10And Uncle Freddy said the reason he doesn't drink is because his father, when he was small, used to come home drunk every night.
00:43:15And he said he made up his mind very early that that wasn't his particular position in life.
00:43:21So I realized children have a way where they will watch us.
00:43:24Yeah.
00:43:24And you might have a particular kink in the armor where they will either one, take up the kink and run with it and probably go down that same road.
00:43:33Or in most cases, make a decision and filter it out and say, you know what, I wouldn't really be like that with daddy, you know?
00:43:38So I think the authenticity via our actions, or even if you talk certain things with your children and tell them straight up, listen, you know, I know us.
00:43:48Because I guess daddy's supposed to be the superhero.
00:43:50We're not supposed to have a kink in the armor.
00:43:52You're not supposed to see a father crying.
00:43:53And that's what I'm saying, Jay.
00:43:54Do I want for my child to look and say, hey, am I raising a good child based on the fact that he's looking at me and saying, I don't want to be like that?
00:44:03That's fine to you.
00:44:04No, that's good.
00:44:05I don't want that.
00:44:06No, that's good.
00:44:07I do like that.
00:44:07Remember, we now say we're not perfect.
00:44:10So at the end of the day, I think the authenticity, the child, you could be best daddy, Robbie, Robert, you know, Wyatt.
00:44:18We could be the best dads.
00:44:19We still have something where the child will decide, you know what?
00:44:21Yeah, you have an impact.
00:44:22I agree.
00:44:23We're not in the front direction.
00:44:23No, I completely agree with you.
00:44:24I think we can never be the best dads, you know?
00:44:27I think we have to just.
00:44:27There's always going to be something.
00:44:29You could be the best dad, but not the perfect dad.
00:44:30Who do you know in your life that doesn't have any trauma from growing up?
00:44:35You know what I mean?
00:44:36Like everyone has their trauma.
00:44:37It's from your dad wasn't there.
00:44:39It's from my dad was there.
00:44:40You know what I mean?
00:44:40So I think every kid is going to have some stuff, different degrees, obviously.
00:44:45And yes, we just have to keep doing our best and understand we are human.
00:44:49But I also love the idea of treating our children as humans.
00:44:53We're human to human.
00:44:54You know what I mean?
00:44:55It's not always we're above and they're below and they're learning from us.
00:45:00You know what I mean?
00:45:00I think this human to human type of exchange is great guidance.
00:45:07So you mentioned something that the relationship you now have with your son.
00:45:12Are we now saying, because before we close, I want to address the sugar daddy.
00:45:16And I want to address.
00:45:17Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:18Because it's non-biological,
00:45:20but it's still an element of the psychological nature of how we impact.
00:45:25And what I also want to ask us friends here,
00:45:32are we saying that we agree that we should be a friend to our child?
00:45:36Because there's always that argument that I'm not here to be a friend.
00:45:40You know, I'm here to be a parent.
00:45:42And the two shouldn't mix.
00:45:44What are we saying?
00:45:45I want to bring it into a full-on.
00:45:46That's a good question.
00:45:47I go back to just being a brother as opposed to a friend.
00:45:49Like, I literally, because I never had a brother.
00:45:51So it was a kind of two-fold scenario where not having a template,
00:45:55approaching this, how do I approach being a father to my son?
00:45:58You know what?
00:45:58And how old were you when he was born?
00:46:00I was 27.
00:46:02So you're still relatively young.
00:46:04Yeah, yeah.
00:46:04So, you know, he's going to be 17 just now.
00:46:07And it's like, we would, normal thing like what brothers would do?
00:46:09Pillow fight, build Lego, play, hide and seek.
00:46:13Then eventually sort of come into his own SCA, have different conversations.
00:46:17And I was always straight up and transparent with him.
00:46:21And I realized now we'd come to a place where we literally would be driving
00:46:23and just having a conversation, like two, two brethren.
00:46:26I was like that.
00:46:27I could see us alignment.
00:46:28I could see him.
00:46:29Right.
00:46:30Wouldn't be ashamed or feel how to take a line with daddy when he get older.
00:46:34He's a big man.
00:46:35He could be himself.
00:46:36And I want him to be himself.
00:46:38If he want to sit down and, no, it's happening yet.
00:46:40As I say, no profanities in the conversation yet.
00:46:44And I think there's still a level of respect.
00:46:47And I'm glad that there's still, because there's that line that you know,
00:46:50hey, here, what's going on?
00:46:50I could turn into that daddy mode immediately.
00:46:53And I raise my voice if I say, hey.
00:46:56But I think that.
00:46:56I think that's important.
00:46:57I think it's more like a brother.
00:46:58You got to kind of approach it from that kind of angle.
00:47:00Because now is that time of information, Robs, and them kids,
00:47:04it's best to come to you to get the real deal,
00:47:06as opposed to getting it from somebody else.
00:47:08It's true.
00:47:08Because nobody will filter it for them.
00:47:10Has he ever questioned you about your choices with regards to not being,
00:47:14you know, if he looks at other households with, you know,
00:47:17a married couple, you know, growing up like that.
00:47:19Has he ever, I mean, you're still there, which is important,
00:47:22which is a big thing.
00:47:23But has he had that combo?
00:47:25Funny enough, he did not even have to question it.
00:47:27I explained to him from the time, you know, everything kind of,
00:47:31things kind of fall.
00:47:32So I can explain to him very young what the scenario was.
00:47:35And what I did, I remember my exact words.
00:47:37I said, son, you'd rather mommy and daddy to be separate and happy
00:47:42or to be together and unhappy.
00:47:44You see, I like the first option.
00:47:46Separate and happy.
00:47:47And gee, what you're saying there, even Robert, what you're asking, right?
00:47:51I would say no to being friends because the definition of a friend
00:47:55is different to each person, right?
00:47:57But we're going back to human to human
00:47:58because I don't have to be somebody's friend to treat them like human, right?
00:48:02So you don't have to be your son's or your child's friend
00:48:05to treat them like a human.
00:48:07So closing, closing, Jay, I'd like you to start just to touch on a bit of what you said.
00:48:12If you can give any kind of guidance to mothers, to aunts, to anyone who's out there listening,
00:48:21who may have grown up without a father, who doesn't know who their father is
00:48:25or who knows who their father is but is not present in their life,
00:48:28to touch on a conversation you may have had, likewise with your son,
00:48:31some nuggets to them.
00:48:35I think it's about understanding your history.
00:48:40I think that's important.
00:48:42Going back, asking your questions, trying to do your research,
00:48:44your personal family research, understanding where I came from,
00:48:48the family dynamic, and making a conscious decision
00:48:52when you now create your own family to go a different path.
00:48:57And if for any unfortunate reason things do work out,
00:48:59still keep a level of humanity, man,
00:49:02and keep some semblance of decency and love in the conversation
00:49:08because it's not about you anymore, especially when a child is involved.
00:49:11You have to consider the child because when you wage that war,
00:49:13the collateral damage will always be the child, always be the child.
00:49:16So to the women out there, do deny the father's access.
00:49:21And I think a lot of women too sometimes, unfortunately,
00:49:23because they know her dad really want to be,
00:49:27like they will stick it to him now,
00:49:28because they know that this man really want to be involved.
00:49:31And what about the men who don't want no involvement?
00:49:33They don't even give that man sometimes that kind of pressure
00:49:35because he just do even business.
00:49:37So that's a whole different conversation for a different day,
00:49:41and I don't want people to get upset,
00:49:42but the reality is that there are a lot of men out there hurting
00:49:44and they really want to be part of the child's life.
00:49:47And I think they should be given that option to come in
00:49:50and just let the child see for themselves where they come from
00:49:54and the person who played a part with them being here.
00:49:57So the child now can make a decision when they get older
00:50:00as to do I want to emulate or pull some of these things from daddy
00:50:05or I want to eradicate these behaviors.
00:50:08Because the child will ultimately do that.
00:50:09The child will filter and do their own edit.
00:50:12And you know them kids are all doing that.
00:50:14Correct.
00:50:14I would just add to that, though, because I grew up in a divorced family,
00:50:19and it really hurts the child when the parents are saying negative things
00:50:24about the other, you know what I'm saying?
00:50:26All the time.
00:50:27And sometimes, like my mom was more talkative, right?
00:50:29So she would say more kind of like little negative things here and there.
00:50:33So it wasn't that she was like not letting me see my dad.
00:50:36I saw them a week and then a week, a week.
00:50:38But like she would throw those little negative things out there more than he would,
00:50:42and that always left me just confused.
00:50:45And it didn't make me closer to her.
00:50:47It made me more distant from both of them because I was confused.
00:50:51So I think even, you know, as...
00:50:54Especially if you love your dad.
00:50:55Especially if you're having a good time with him.
00:50:56It's like, why are you saying these things?
00:50:57Exactly.
00:50:58Yeah.
00:50:58So I think we got to like kind of keep, whether you're married or you're not or whatever,
00:51:02like you got to keep your opinions to yourself when it comes to the child.
00:51:07I just wanted to find out in your closing thoughts, Wyatt,
00:51:09that like out of the discussion today, you were asking for some of the revelations
00:51:13that we may have had in our dad's passing.
00:51:17You know, what may you tell, me taking away from this to tell your dad
00:51:21or to let other people know, I mean, hearing some of our...
00:51:24I've been thinking about that actually recently.
00:51:27I talked to my dad the other day and I wanted to like set up a weekly interview with him
00:51:31to get his stories, to get his experiences.
00:51:34And I don't know if you ever read or listened to the book, The Last Lecture.
00:51:38It's an amazing book.
00:51:40Might be a great time for you to listen to it.
00:51:42This is a professor who knew he was dying of terminal cancer.
00:51:45So he set up these recordings for his young child.
00:51:49So the child would know him.
00:51:51And it was all of his lessons on ways of being as a human.
00:51:55And so, I mean, I want to get that from my dad, you know, in a more like deliberate way.
00:52:03And I try to drop those kind of one-liners on my son here and there, you know.
00:52:10Like today we're going to school and I try to compare the show he's watching to
00:52:13to how that, how to be your best self.
00:52:17Yeah.
00:52:18And that being your spirit animal, whatever show it is,
00:52:21is really about being your best self, you know.
00:52:26And so I think those little like little one-liners where you're not sitting down
00:52:30to be like, let me teach you something.
00:52:32But it's just an everyday and passing type of thing.
00:52:35I think those really mold someone and stick with them.
00:52:38Yeah.
00:52:39In a way that's like, you know, it's like being Yoda or something, you know.
00:52:45Yeah.
00:52:45So Johan said, I want one specific for you, apart from your little nuggets that you always
00:52:50leave us with, to really, yes, I want the science behind the sugar daddy.
00:52:55So to have that understanding because there is a negative impact and the reason why.
00:53:01We laugh about it, but there's still a negative.
00:53:03So if you give me that as your closing thoughts.
00:53:05All right.
00:53:05So I'll give you a digression into that quick, right?
00:53:07I did some research on why women, right, we started first in pornography, would say daddy,
00:53:17right, during the act.
00:53:19And then to see if women in real were doing the same thing.
00:53:23And in the research, I even spoke to some women.
00:53:26What they said is, one, when they were missing a father.
00:53:31So it's women with daddy issues mostly, right, with daddy issues.
00:53:35So they'd always look for a father outside of themselves.
00:53:39So even a sugar daddy as a stranger, and there may be even sexual favors in the mix.
00:53:45They got some of the things that they were missing as a father, whether it is providing
00:53:50and protecting, sometimes even knowing that they have a guy there who want them, who want
00:53:56to be with them, who want to spend time, an older gentleman.
00:53:59And in their minds, even though it may have been warped, right, it created that sense of
00:54:05having a father that they didn't have.
00:54:08So that's some of the signs, I mean, it doesn't apply to everyone.
00:54:12But, and I said, I actually spoke to some women, and they were open and honest.
00:54:16And they said sometimes, even after the transactions, they would feel a little empty because, you know,
00:54:21it's not really their father.
00:54:22But in the moment, they had the fantasy of it, or when they get a deposit in their account,
00:54:28they say, you know, my daddy, when my daddy did this, and my daddy did that.
00:54:31You talk about a literal deposit in an account, right?
00:54:34Yes.
00:54:34Not a deposit as in an account.
00:54:35Yes, a literal deposit in an account.
00:54:36We started off talking about porn, so I'm just trying to bring it into.
00:54:41Right, right.
00:54:41So, and I'm using that because even with the porn aspect, if you're missing something,
00:54:46our expression of human behavior is always based on what's going on here, right?
00:54:50Human behavior, thought, feeling, action.
00:54:51So, if you're missing something, if you want something, it expresses itself somewhere else.
00:54:57So, even understanding that can help us understand the importance of our father.
00:55:02The importance, men, the importance of one, you doing better in yourself as a man, whether
00:55:07a father or not.
00:55:08And, of course, it translates into being a father, remembering that we're human, but we're
00:55:12not perfect, and doing as much as we can.
00:55:15And, Robert, as you're saying, and this is one thing I've taken, especially from my father,
00:55:18to spend as much time with him as possible, because he literally, I don't know what going
00:55:23on, happen tomorrow.
00:55:24You don't.
00:55:25Up to yesterday, Saturday, I was spending some time with him, and it was a father-son meet-up
00:55:31in Bonnet Community Center.
00:55:33We did that, and it was powerful.
00:55:36So, I'm going to spend as much time with my father.
00:55:38Yeah, that's important.
00:55:38That's important.
00:55:40And, you know, I just wanted to add one thing, Rob.
00:55:43I've been meaning to say that, like, the tough love thing, I think it's really important
00:55:49for fathers to show up with compassion, too.
00:55:53You know?
00:55:53And the simple act of, like, giving our child a hug and saying it's okay, I think sometimes,
00:56:04like, we might think we have to be the tough love.
00:56:08Like, dads get home, and you're like, come on, you know, stop this, right?
00:56:12But I think sometimes it's really, like, honestly, I feel like the most powerful thing I do with
00:56:16my son, he's almost five, you know, just kneel down and hug him, and it, like, it resets him.
00:56:23Yeah.
00:56:23You know?
00:56:24And so I just want to think more about, like, in terms of manhood, I don't think it's all
00:56:30about being how tough you could be, how strong you could be.
00:56:35But the vulnerability, compassion, you know, human to human, I think that, like, that's
00:56:41where the power lies right now.
00:56:43Yeah.
00:56:44I'm sorry.
00:56:44So, absolutely.
00:56:46Gentlemen, this was a powerful conversation.
00:56:49Yep.
00:56:51Very cathartic as well for me in many ways.
00:56:54I don't have a lot, really, to add to that, and that in itself is powerful.
00:57:01But to say that, you know, it's okay to cry.
00:57:06It's okay to cry.
00:57:08We have these false perceptions of what it takes to be a man, what it takes to be a father,
00:57:12what it takes to show our children or society that you mentioned.
00:57:18Things like tough love, the importance of kneeling down, meeting them eye to eye, because what
00:57:25they see is a giant as opposed to someone that's giving them information, love, to know
00:57:31that it's okay to receive this information as a reaction to something that they may have
00:57:35done or not done.
00:57:36And that's important to hug, to embrace.
00:57:43There is, there are, I'm not disputing, there are areas for tough love, but there are areas
00:57:49to be really genuinely a father's love.
00:57:52And the, one of the things that I took away from my dad's passing, and it was highlighted
00:58:00to me from a very good friend of mine, and that we don't see at the time, is the way I
00:58:08might have gotten a certain level of knowledge that I would always turn to him for, even if
00:58:12it was a job interview, for any information at all.
00:58:15So even though I saw, you know, for 10 years he was sick, I got, you know, some of my sayings,
00:58:21the way I communicate.
00:58:22Um, Kobo, Kobo do eat sponge cake, you know, cockroach are not right in foul party, monkey
00:58:29know which treat to climb, things like that, that bring a smile to people's face when they
00:58:33hear it.
00:58:34And I, you know, didn't even realize I was picking these things up from him all the time.
00:58:38So I would like to close to say, it's okay to cry, love your fathers, of course, love your
00:58:46mothers.
00:58:46If you're without a father for whether he's past, whether he's not present, your mother's
00:58:51doing the best that she can, and the community around you are doing the best that they can,
00:58:56and to be that, that you miss, or that you're not even aware of, that, um, like, like you
00:59:01said, Jay, you know, the absence of your dad has made you into a better man, um, in certain
00:59:07circumstances, and apart from your choice of football team, of course.
00:59:11Um, but, you know, so that, that being said, we'd like to close just to say that, um, remember,
00:59:17you know, live, live with the living.
00:59:20You're not, you're not, you're not assured tomorrow, you know, it's, you have to live
00:59:23in the present, hence it's called a gift, um, and the past is the past.
00:59:28So do what you need to do, you know, for yourself, more importantly, for yourself, embrace your
00:59:34dad, have that conversation, you know, that level of peace.
00:59:38So, Johanse, Wyatt, Jay, always a pleasure, really, really good convo today.
00:59:44Um, thank you to everyone that's been listening, viewing.
00:59:47We'd like to thank our sponsors.
00:59:48I didn't say anything about the sponsors.
00:59:50We will be sitting on these seats, and this nice set of it wasn't for Racetrack.
00:59:54Thank you to Jamison, Jamison Vitamins, for keeping us healthy, keeping us going.
00:59:58Um, keep joining us, keep, keep looking on us.
01:00:02Like I said, the conversation, this episode, um, has ended, but the conversation still continues.
01:00:07You know, we have to talk about baby daddy, and people who want 10, 12 kids.
01:00:13You know, the reasoning behind some of that.
01:00:15You know, our friend Niall, you know, I'm going to bring him here for sure to have that conversation.
01:00:19But we spoke about manhood here today, fatherhood, manhood.
01:00:22Um, thanks for joining us.
01:00:33Manhood, brought to you by Jamison, natural sources since 1922, and Racetrack.