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00:00Welcome back to Better Things with Joe Bianca.
00:02I'm your host, Joe Bianca.
00:04This is episode seven.
00:05Later on, we're going to be handicapping
00:07to Breeders' Cup Challenge,
00:08winning year-end races at Kentucky Downs,
00:10one of the most unique opportunity-filled meets
00:13of the year.
00:14But first, we're going to talk to Seth Merrow,
00:16who's a public handicapper for Capital OTB.
00:19He also runs the racing news aggregation
00:21and handicapping site, Equidaily,
00:23one of the nicest, hardest-working guys I know in racing.
00:26We had a great conversation, so let's talk to Seth.
00:30Welcome back to Better Things with Joe Bianca.
00:32I'm so excited to talk to this next guest.
00:34He's a host and public handicapper for Capital OTB.
00:39Seth Merrow, thanks for joining me.
00:41Happy to be on, Joe.
00:42It was good to have you on our show
00:44this summer up in Saratoga.
00:45That was fun, and so I like the re-invite
00:48to appear with you.
00:49Appreciate it.
00:50Absolutely.
00:51Reciprocity is key in this industry,
00:53and we know each other a little bit.
00:55We've been friends for a long time,
00:56and we've been friends for a long time.
00:58We know each other a little bit
01:00through our mutual friend, Steve Bick.
01:01We don't really know each other all that well,
01:03so I'm looking forward to getting to know you here.
01:05Let's start with this.
01:06You're a Saratoga guy.
01:07You grew up in Saratoga, correct?
01:09Well, a little bit south and west of here, Amsterdam,
01:12but half an hour away.
01:14Spent a lot of time in Saratoga my whole time growing up.
01:16Now I'm in Ballston Spa, which is about 10 minutes away
01:19for people who aren't from Saratoga.
01:20Gotcha, so let's start with this.
01:22How young were you when you first went to the track?
01:24Five years old, two years old, a fetus?
01:26How young?
01:28My family was not composed of racing fans,
01:32so it was a kid in high school
01:34whose family was racing-related, or fans, I guess,
01:40and we would sit in a study hall
01:42in the library in high school
01:44and kind of go through the paper and look at the entries
01:46and the next day see what the results were and whatnot.
01:49So it wasn't until high school
01:50that I made my first trip to the track,
01:53and I really kind of got involved
01:55over across the street at the Harness Track.
01:58Summers, I would be up there almost every night,
02:01and eventually, you know,
02:02so I made some ventures over to Thoroughbred Track,
02:05but it was probably more Harness early on
02:08and then kind of shifted over,
02:09started to focus more on the Thoroughbred.
02:11Still make plenty of trips over to the Harness Track, though.
02:13Interesting, so how do you differentiate your strategies?
02:17Because I really have never been Harness.
02:19I've been to the Saratoga Harness Track,
02:21but it's usually simulcasting
02:22after the Saratoga races are over.
02:25If I were going to go bet Harness racing,
02:27what are just some basic pointers you would give me?
02:30Well, I think the notable thing about Harness racing
02:33in that the way I got into the game
02:35and I think is maybe beneficial to other people,
02:39I think it's a nice way to get into the game
02:41and to get into betting because for the most part,
02:43at least at the half-mile tracks,
02:45you're talking about a max field of eight.
02:47In most races, it will be eight.
02:49You know, it can go down to six or seven
02:50or up to nine or 10, but most of the time, it's eight,
02:53and they're virtually always at a mile.
02:55And so you're taking some of the puzzle out of the puzzle.
02:59And so it's a little bit easier to get in
03:02and handicap a little bit.
03:03And then once you've done that,
03:05you kind of start to make your, you know,
03:08your move up the ladder of what types of bets you're making,
03:11what kind of results you want to look for.
03:13Then it's, I think it's an easier transition
03:16over to the Thoroughbred game.
03:17But that was probably what was notable to me
03:19as I started to make that transition.
03:21You added a few more pieces to the puzzle
03:23on the Thoroughbred side.
03:25Well, that's interesting that you say that
03:27because I never really thought about it that way.
03:28But yeah, the races are very similar.
03:31Does that make it easier, do you think,
03:32from like a data perspective?
03:34Because it's so hard to make figures, I think,
03:36in Thoroughbreds because there's different surfaces,
03:38different distances.
03:39I don't even know anything about figures for Hardest Race.
03:42Like, what's that like?
03:45That's a good question because if there are figure makers,
03:50when I go over to the Harness track,
03:52I don't think they're in the program.
03:54Now, there may be somebody who's doing them.
03:55I would imagine from a figure maker perspective,
03:59it wouldn't be much easier if they were doing it.
04:00That's a great, maybe I'll start doing that.
04:02Maybe I can come up with figures
04:05because it does seem like it would be an easier proposition
04:08because you're not one of the buyer for any of the figures.
04:12One of the things is,
04:13oh, we only ran one race at that distance today.
04:16So it was hard to come up with a figure later on
04:19and with Harness Racing, that wouldn't be a problem.
04:21That's interesting.
04:23Now, I'm gonna have to research that a little more
04:26because as I say, I have never seen Harness figures,
04:28but now I wonder if they're out there.
04:30I will add, I was also for years and years,
04:33I love the Greyhounds.
04:34My dad was retired down in Florida in the Sarasota area.
04:38He was in Bradenton,
04:39but I would go to the Sarasota Kennel Club.
04:41And one of the things that I think the Greyhounds were great
04:44for teaching handicappers was the class level
04:46because that was their whole thing.
04:48You would get a couple of losses at one class,
04:52you'd move down.
04:53And if you got a win, you moved up.
04:55And it became very obvious that these horses
04:59are going from one class to the other, up or down,
05:02but it became very obvious.
05:03It made a big difference.
05:04And that translated then for me
05:07over to the horse racing side too,
05:08to become a little more aware of those class moves.
05:11Interesting.
05:12Yeah, you can reinvent yourself, Seth,
05:14as the Andy Buyer of Harness figures.
05:16If I can give you that idea, I'll take a small percentage
05:19and then we'll move on from there.
05:20No, but it's great.
05:21You bring up Greyhounds too.
05:22Another thing I really don't know that much about,
05:25the one thing that I felt like would be frustrating
05:28about Harness racing and Greyhound racing
05:30is like when the horses break stride in Harness racing
05:33or if like a dog bolts or whatever,
05:35did you ever find that there was that kind of variable
05:38that you don't really get in Thoroughbred racing?
05:40Yeah, early on, I mean, still,
05:42but I mean, early on when you're getting into the game
05:45and they go from the gate and you've got a horse
05:47in a double or whatever and three strides out,
05:50he breaks stride and they're off, you lose.
05:52That is one of the real drawbacks of Harness racing.
05:57There's no question about it.
05:58Greyhounds, you would get the occasional dog
06:01who would kind of fall over in the turn
06:03and maybe come back running the wrong way.
06:05That doesn't happen quite as much in Greyhounds
06:08as the horse breaking stride in Harness racing.
06:10But yeah, that is one of the frustrating aspects.
06:14There's the similar things in the Thoroughbreds too.
06:18I've always said I wish they had rules
06:20that horses had to maybe get out that first 50 yards
06:23on the Thoroughbred side before they're official
06:25because you get those, they're off, you lose
06:28kind of situations where they do call your horse
06:33no contest or declare a non-starter
06:36if the starter has a hold or those kinds of situations.
06:39But there are plenty of situations
06:40where a horse just gets off to a bad start
06:43and subsequently has no chance.
06:44And I would love to see them kind of figure out
06:46so everybody has kind of a fair shot
06:48because particularly at a place like Saratoga
06:50where you get new people, that's just frustrating.
06:53And that's not a great way to introduce fans
06:55that, oh gee, I made a bet
06:57and three strides out of the gate, I was done.
06:59Absolutely, well, I'm curious to know
07:01about your impression of Saratoga over the years
07:04because you haven't been going there as long
07:05as I assumed you'd be going there
07:06but you have been going there for a while.
07:08It seems to get more and more popular every single year.
07:12The track has changed a little bit.
07:13What are some of the things that you've seen over the years
07:16that maybe you like better than it used to be
07:18or maybe that has not been the same as you remember it?
07:23Well, I go back to the days of no fence in the paddock
07:26which is kind of crazy.
07:27That was just, I overlapped that barely.
07:31But we think about that now and it's mind boggling
07:34but there were no fences.
07:35They would saddle the horses.
07:37There would be a tree with a number on it
07:38and they would saddle the horse there
07:40and the crowd was right there.
07:42And as I say, incredible to think about
07:43but that was there.
07:44And so it was one of those situations
07:46that I think is very Saratoga-esque
07:49and remains so to this day where the change came
07:53and then, well, this is horrible
07:54and how quaint it was by the trees
07:57and now it's a fence.
07:59But it was made for the right reasons
08:00and now we're all used to it.
08:01And the paddock as it is right now is very nice
08:04and people can still line the fence on the paddock
08:07or get a picnic table by the paddock
08:08and it's a great spot.
08:11I remember when the clubhouse was really more
08:13of a clubhouse.
08:14It was now the clubhouse goes down a few sections
08:18of the fold-down seats.
08:20That was not the case.
08:21The clubhouse when I started was the box seats only.
08:24So it was a much smaller clubhouse.
08:25But again, that was a nice move.
08:27And in recent years, they have added
08:30that top of the stretch section
08:32which is a little bit of an upgrade.
08:34If people aren't familiar,
08:35the grandstand sections up near the top of the stretch,
08:39if it wasn't a big day,
08:40they would essentially be empty.
08:42And so it was a great move by NYRA
08:44to make that a little bit of an upgrade.
08:46And I know I've talked to owners
08:47and people who have boxes there now
08:49and really enjoy it.
08:51And that was an improvement that, again,
08:54I think when it first came,
08:55people were kind of like,
08:56eh, I don't know.
08:56But I think that's worked out very well.
08:58The 1863 club, when that first went up,
09:02people complained, but it used to be a tent sitting there.
09:05So I think that's a very nice upgrade.
09:09People seem to enjoy that.
09:10I was in that a few times this year having lunch
09:13and everybody has a great time
09:14and you get a great look.
09:15They've added that tailgate area
09:17on the clubhouse turn now for a couple of years.
09:20That really seems to have become popular.
09:22And I think that's a great idea.
09:23People can pull a car up,
09:24literally tailgate and watch the races.
09:27There's some bedding windows over there
09:28and you have a kind of a unique look
09:30and you're right there on the fence.
09:32I think that's probably great for developing new fans.
09:34And then this year,
09:35they added that paddock bar of the two storeys.
09:37And again, people love it.
09:39I know.
09:40People complain.
09:41Oh, it's a consternation.
09:43And now they've nicknamed it the tree house.
09:45I'm sure a lot of your viewers and listeners
09:47have seen the pictures on social media.
09:50And the name is very apt
09:53because it's kind of sitting there amongst the trees.
09:56And again, I was in the upstairs of that
09:58doing a handicapping seminar in the middle of the season.
10:00Great venue.
10:01You get a great look at the paddock
10:03and the horses walking out to the track.
10:05So I think that was a nice addition too.
10:08There have been many changes to Saratoga over the years
10:11that all because of how historic it is.
10:13Understandably, there's a little consternation at first,
10:17but I think they've made the right moves
10:19and have kept the historic nature of the facility overall.
10:23I mean, you walk around,
10:24I will tell people that haven't been there,
10:26even people that have been there,
10:28because it's hard sometimes to notice,
10:31but walk around and take a look at the ironwork
10:34that's just around up on it.
10:36There are horse heads and it's all ornate
10:39and from a kind of a bygone era,
10:42but that all remains if you look for it.
10:44It's easy to walk by,
10:46but the historic nature is still there, which is very good.
10:49And most importantly about Saratoga over the years,
10:51yeah, when I first started going,
10:53I got to the, I probably went over there
10:56just at the beginning of when it was starting to resurge.
10:59You know, as I say, my parents were not horse racing fans,
11:03but like a lot of people in this area,
11:05they would go to the track once or twice during the season.
11:08And they talk about the days where
11:09you didn't pay for a grand CN seat.
11:10You got there early, you put a newspaper on it,
11:12that was your seat for the day.
11:14And there weren't that many people to object to that.
11:17As you know, we got into the seventies and eighties.
11:20And when I started going,
11:21Mary Lou Whitney and a group built SPAC,
11:23that became very popular.
11:24The highway system changed a little bit.
11:26And as I say,
11:27it was kind of at the beginning of the resurgence,
11:29but it has been fun to watch that build over the years.
11:32And it's just, it's a great venue,
11:34mostly, I think, to develop new fans,
11:37because people come there and they come for the social aspect,
11:40the picnic in the backyard.
11:41You see the horses walking by on the horse path,
11:44or you're out by the paddock.
11:45They have the little band playing in the back every day.
11:47And that's a lot of fun.
11:49All the local media covers Saratoga
11:51because it is our professional sports
11:53here in the upstate New York area.
11:55And so I think it's a great way to get people
11:57engaged in the game and they do a great job of that.
12:00Yeah, I mean, as long as you can get someone there,
12:03they'll always want to come back, I think is the thing.
12:05And the horse path you brought that up,
12:06that's so huge because I know I've been to a lot of tracks,
12:09maybe not as many as you,
12:10but I like, you feel like you can reach out
12:12and touch the horse, don't do it,
12:14because they'll throw you out.
12:16But even if you lean over a little bit,
12:19but even so, like just the fact that they're that close,
12:22it really makes you feel part of the action
12:24more than any other racetrack.
12:25And that's what I tell people.
12:26Like I have friends who ask me,
12:27you go, can you take me out to Belmont,
12:29take me out to Aqueduct.
12:30I'm like, yeah, I will, but come to Saratoga,
12:32like take a weekend with me, come to Saratoga in the summer.
12:35Then you'll really get the essence of what racing is about.
12:38But the other side of that is the human side
12:40with the trainers and the jockeys.
12:42I mean, it's fun during the day to watch the jockeys
12:44walk back to the jocks room and the little kids run up
12:47and just the goggles or sign an autograph.
12:49The other day, John Velasquez gets his 1000th
12:53Saratoga victory and I followed him out with a camera.
12:56People can find it on YouTube, my Equidaily YouTube channel.
13:00I followed him out and people were lining
13:01the jock's path, applauding, posing for selfies,
13:05getting autographs.
13:06And then our friend, Steve Bick tweeted the other day
13:10that it was the 10th anniversary of Ramon Dominguez
13:13getting his six win day up there.
13:15I had on that day, 10 years ago, done a similar thing
13:19following Ramon back to the jocks room
13:21with the folks clapping.
13:22And it was funny kind of looking at those two side by side
13:25and seeing the more things change,
13:26the more they say the same.
13:27The Saratoga fans are so appreciative on a big day
13:31like that for a jockey all the way back to the jocks room,
13:34applause and pictures and autographs.
13:36And again, that's what makes Saratoga so special.
13:38The accessibility of the people and the horses,
13:40you really cannot beat that.
13:41It's like you say, it's kind of like going back in time
13:44to a place where racing is still king.
13:46And there are very few places like that left in the world,
13:48much less America.
13:50So that's, I think what makes it so special too.
13:52You mentioned Equidaily.
13:53I think that's one of the things you're known for as well,
13:55not just being a public handicapper.
13:57A news aggregation plus handicapping site
13:59that's been pretty popular.
14:01Are you still keeping up with that?
14:02Are you doing more of the video stuff?
14:03Like what's your involvement with Equidaily today?
14:06It's taken a little bit of a break, but it's coming back.
14:09It's just, it was one of really
14:11the first news aggregation sites became very popular,
14:15but the internet changed a little bit.
14:17And so I've stepped back for a couple of months
14:20just with a game plan to get it back.
14:22And I was just gonna really transition right into it.
14:26And I thought, let me step back a little bit
14:27and kind of reintroduce it.
14:28No, it's not.
14:29I have said to people,
14:30it's more evolutionary than revolutionary,
14:32what will happen.
14:33Hopefully we're, and the game plan is be back up
14:36by Breeders' Cup time with just some tweaks
14:38and some changes that'll kind of recognize
14:40that things have changed a little bit
14:42and we'll have some different focuses maybe.
14:44But the overall theme will still be the same
14:47to kind of compile news and make it easy for people
14:51to find horse racing content in one spot.
14:54And that's how it started years and years ago.
14:58The internet was fairly new and I was kind of realizing,
15:02boy, there's a lot of great horse racing content on here,
15:04but it's hard to find.
15:06And I thought, well, the light bulb went on.
15:08I thought, let's put it all in one place.
15:10And that's what we did.
15:11And then again, it became very popular,
15:13but as the internet changed and social media is out there now
15:16I've just thought, no, let me tweak it up a little bit.
15:17So we'll be back though.
15:19No doubt.
15:20That makes sense too.
15:20It's good for us to add the TDN also,
15:22because we like to check on our competition.
15:25If there are news stories that are breaking
15:26that we're not on,
15:27I think Equidaily was a good resource for that.
15:30Because then we could get everything in one
15:31and then figure out what we need to catch up on and stuff.
15:34But let's talk about your public handicapping background.
15:37Because I think of you as a capital OTV handicapper.
15:40You do a great job there, obviously.
15:42Where did you cut your teeth though, first in that realm?
15:46Were there people who were big influences on you?
15:49Were there people that first looked out for you
15:51that got you into that world?
15:56Probably as I was a kid.
15:57And then as I say, started to transition
15:59over to the Thoroughbred game a little bit
16:01from the harness side.
16:03I was looking at Russ Harris and the Daily News.
16:05I mean, the two New York tabloids,
16:08you go back and they had a number of handicapped.
16:11I mean, boy, you look at mainstream media in the house.
16:13It's so sad.
16:14It's compared to really fairly recently.
16:16But when I first got in the game, there were multiple,
16:20there's been a little consternation on social media
16:22over the past couple of weeks
16:23with the public handicapper scorecard.
16:27And there's been a debate about picking winners versus ROI.
16:30I think they're both legitimate.
16:32But I look at the list and I used to compile
16:35at the end of the season on Equidale,
16:37all the public handicappers.
16:39And there were probably 30 of them bouncing around.
16:41The two New York tabloids,
16:43all the local papers had multiple public handicappers.
16:47And that's kind of squeezed down a little bit,
16:50particularly if you're outside of Saratoga,
16:52some of the local newspapers that have Saratoga handicappers
16:54won't have anything the rest of the year.
16:56Obviously, they've cut back on the two New York tabloids.
16:59But again, I used to pay attention to Russ Harris.
17:03I, like your colleague, always enjoyed Bill Finley.
17:06I have mentioned to him a couple of times over the years.
17:09I can remember years and years ago,
17:10he had a great column where he,
17:13I wanna say he started in Saratoga,
17:16but he made three tracks in one day.
17:18It was, I think it was Saratoga,
17:20Rockingham and maybe Suffolk.
17:22So like the first race at Saratoga,
17:24then the middle of the card at the Rock,
17:25and then went on to Suffolk if I'm not mistaken,
17:27but that was a fun column.
17:29So I would read Bill Finley
17:30and all the guys in those tabloids.
17:32But Russ Harris was the guy
17:33because he did the kind of public handicapping that now I do.
17:38As I say, Equidale is taking a little break
17:40from the aggregation, but during the Saratoga season,
17:42I still posted my picks.
17:44And I tried to do that Russ Harris kind of thing.
17:46And other handicappers do where,
17:48put my top three picks up
17:49and write a couple of lines about it.
17:51And that was enough from a guy like Russ Harris
17:54to get an idea of, oh, okay,
17:56here's where you wanna focus
17:57or here's something important to pick up on this horse.
18:00And that's kind of,
18:02I would say he was an influence certainly
18:04on the direction I went.
18:07Right, so what was like your first break
18:08in terms of getting a public handicapper role?
18:12Well, again, it goes back to not Equidale,
18:15but I used to, my background,
18:17I graduated from Syracuse with a,
18:20I spent a couple of years at RPI studying engineering,
18:23wound up at Syracuse in film school.
18:25So I graduated with a film degree
18:27from the Newhouse School at Syracuse.
18:30And subsequently I opened up a television production company
18:33here in Saratoga.
18:34And we would do,
18:37we had some sponsored programming,
18:40homes for sale on Sunday mornings.
18:42We did restaurant reviews,
18:43a Sunday morning restaurant review show.
18:46But I also for a few years, the local PBS channel, WMHD,
18:51I would do two specials every year on Saratoga
18:54for about four or five years.
18:55Just a kind of a magazine type of show
18:57with a little four or five minute features
18:59on people or places or whatnot.
19:01So we did that for a few years.
19:03The Chris Beale, Chris Lincoln show on ESPN,
19:05we did some Saratoga footage for him every year
19:08for a few years.
19:10So I had the television production company in town
19:12and when the internet kind of became the internet,
19:14put up a website for the television production company.
19:19And being a horse racing fan,
19:21I started a page that is still essentially
19:23now the Equidate Daily Handicapping page.
19:26I started one on the television production company website
19:29that made pics every day for Saratoga.
19:33And so that got very popular.
19:36And just, you know,
19:39you would have the normal number of people
19:40who were interested in television production company,
19:42but every August, the pics would become pretty popular.
19:45Then I transitioned over to Equidaily.
19:48I kept that going and that was kind of helpful to Equidaily
19:51because I already had a base of people who were...
19:53So I started Equidaily,
19:55whatever number of years ago it was,
19:57I started it on the first day of Saratoga.
19:59So I knew I would have all the people
20:01who were following the pics
20:03automatically come to this new website.
20:05So it worked out well.
20:07Equidaily then subsequently became what...
20:10And I'll go back to the beginning of Equidaily.
20:11It was kind of interesting
20:13because in the first year, a couple of years,
20:15there were a few big stories,
20:17including the pic six, Brouhaha,
20:20which was a huge story that didn't just have breaking news.
20:24It would have breaking news every couple of hours
20:26for the first few days.
20:27So that helped Equidaily as well.
20:30There were a couple of...
20:32There was also the crazy story
20:34about the buzzer with Jose Santos on the derby horse,
20:40which turned out obviously not be true,
20:41but people were looking at pictures and whatnot.
20:43That story had a little bit of juice.
20:45And so again, there was a couple of nice news stories
20:48right at the beginning
20:49that really helped the thing take off.
20:51So that took off, got some press,
20:54and subsequently John Preachy,
20:56who was a racing writer
20:58and still out there on the internet writing at the time,
21:02was working with OTB TV.
21:05Nick Kling and Tom Amella,
21:07who had a Sunday morning show on OTB TV,
21:10when Equidaily became popular,
21:11they invited me to the studio one morning
21:14to talk about the website.
21:15They came in and talked about it.
21:16And John Preachy then came in after the show was over
21:19and said, hey, how'd you like to come
21:20and do some handicapping for us?
21:23And the rest is history, as they say.
21:25Awesome. That's great.
21:26I mean, well, that leads me into...
21:28Because I would love to talk about Capital OTB,
21:29especially vis-a-vis New York City OTB,
21:33because that's how I cut my teeth in handicapping,
21:36was going to the New York City OTBs.
21:38I would sneak in because I was under 18.
21:40And it was just, you know, it was a terrible proposition
21:44because they would charge you the surcharge
21:46on the winning wagers,
21:47which was just so ridiculous in hindsight.
21:49Even at the time, it seemed pretty ridiculous.
21:51But it was the only place outside the track
21:53in New York City to really gather and watch some races.
21:56And it's a shame that it went under the way it did,
21:59you know, with all the corruption in New York.
22:01But Capital OTB has had staying power,
22:04and it's a big deal up north in the Capital region.
22:07And, you know, even now, the old New York City OTB channel,
22:10it just streams the Capital OTB feed.
22:13So I still see you on there.
22:14But so where do you think that Capital OTB has succeeded,
22:18you know, where New York City OTB failed?
22:22I think the television station's a big part of it.
22:25And credit to the folks who, you know,
22:27were heading OTB years ago
22:30to have the foresight to get this, you know,
22:34partnership in the summertime with Naira.
22:36And thanks to the folks at Naira
22:38for allowing us on the Backstretch.
22:39And for your listeners who aren't familiar,
22:41we broadcast from the Saratoga Backstretch every morning
22:45for going back Saratoga seasons
22:47from long before I was part of it.
22:49And we're out by Clare Court,
22:51and the horses work out behind us.
22:53And it's fabulous because it's a great location.
22:57People love Saratoga.
22:58As I say, it's our major league sport.
23:00So people are tuned in.
23:02And I always say to people,
23:05the biggest names in horse racing
23:07are a golf cart ride away.
23:09So I do the nine o'clock handicapping show.
23:12And for a few years now,
23:13I've done the 10 o'clock interview show
23:15every racing day in the morning
23:17from the Saratoga Backstretch.
23:18And, you know, over the years, we've talked to,
23:21I've had Alan Jerkins over there and Jonathan Shepard.
23:23And a couple of weeks ago,
23:24Todd Pletcher made a visit.
23:26He's been there a number of times.
23:27And, you know, Johnny Velasquez and Javier Castellano
23:30and a number of owners,
23:32the West Point folks,
23:33and I had Sal Kumin a little earlier.
23:37Just anybody you name an industry type.
23:39You had Tom Rooney from the NTRA a few weeks back.
23:42We had Lisa Lazarus,
23:43who you've talked to as well recently.
23:45Just interesting to get her perspective
23:47on the beginning few weeks of Hoysa.
23:49And so it's industry people.
23:51It's, you know, the jockeys,
23:53it's the trainers, it's the owners.
23:54And they're all sitting there live next to me.
23:57And the nice part about it is,
23:58and I've complimented you guys
23:59on what you do with the writers room on TDN,
24:02and you're kind of in the same vein.
24:04You get somebody there and you can talk
24:05for 15 or 20 minutes.
24:07And it's not just,
24:08tell us about your big horse mistakes this weekend.
24:11We can get a little into, you know,
24:12what's your background and give a little humanity to it
24:16that I think then pulls fans in a little more of,
24:18hey, I kind of know this guy
24:20and I kind of root for this guy.
24:22Jackie Davis on the other day
24:23got a lot of great feedback to that.
24:25And I think that helps pull fans into the game as well.
24:29But beyond Saratoga, we're showing Capital OTV TV shows,
24:33multiple tracks each day.
24:35I do the interview shows still on the weekends.
24:37And I come in at handicap in the afternoon.
24:39I think it's just, you know,
24:41it appeals to horse players
24:43when you can go to your TV and turn it on
24:45and kind of sit back on your couch,
24:47particularly now that you can bet
24:48on your computer or your phone.
24:50And I think that is a big part
24:52of what has kept the popularity of Capital OTV.
24:56Well, and I miss it.
24:57Like I used to watch on dark days,
24:58it'd be Mondays or Tuesdays
24:59on the New York City OTV channel.
25:01They would have like Howie Tescher
25:02and Anthony Stabile when he was younger.
25:05You might've been on there a couple of times too.
25:06And it was just great to have that feed of racing,
25:10you know, especially on the slower days
25:12where you just, you needed that racing content.
25:14You wanted to consume it.
25:15And now it's just,
25:16we don't have that in the city anymore,
25:18which is, you know, it's a real shame.
25:20But I commend you guys and everybody at Capital OTV
25:23for what you do.
25:24Well, let's talk nuts and bolts, Andy.
25:26I'll tell you that in the past, probably,
25:30well, more than a year now,
25:32a year ago this past January,
25:34we went on one of the Roberts channels, RTN,
25:36Capital OTV is now a sub channel.
25:38And I got a lot of feedback
25:39the last two seasons up at Saratoga
25:41from people who watch on Roku
25:45or the Fire Stick, watch the RTN feed.
25:47Our morning programming,
25:48there's also a Capital OTV YouTube channel
25:51that people can follow on.
25:52We usually, all of Saratoga programming
25:55is tweeted out in the morning.
25:57It's on our Capital OTV Facebook page,
25:59which is nice because it used to be cable systems
26:04and Upstate New York would carry us,
26:06which was a pretty big audience.
26:08But now we're virtually everywhere.
26:09And I hear from a lot of people,
26:11as I say, the last couple of years
26:12who walk up to me at the track,
26:14because obviously the track is our core audience.
26:17So during the Saratoga meet,
26:19I got to get a lot of great feedback,
26:21which I totally appreciate.
26:22But lately, past couple of years,
26:24people walk up and say,
26:25man, I really love the program.
26:26You guys do a great job.
26:28I appreciate the live folks from the backstretch.
26:31And when I'm not up here,
26:32I'm watching from home in Long Island
26:34or in Kentucky or in Florida,
26:35which is great as well.
26:37Yeah, I mean, that's so key
26:39to have that kind of reach nowadays
26:41because you guys really deserve that big of an audience.
26:44Let's talk about your handicapping style.
26:47How do you attack a day in general?
26:49Do you go by whatever the races are
26:52or do you try generally to start with multi-race bets
26:54and then maybe pair down?
26:56How do you, what's the first couple of things you do
26:58when you open the forum for a day at Saratoga, say?
27:02Well, being a public handicapper,
27:03I have to handicap every race every day
27:06and I'm a couple of days ahead.
27:07So then one of the factors, of course,
27:09which this year, you know,
27:11knock wood and thankfully wasn't much of a factor,
27:14but one of the factors is the weather.
27:15That's going to maybe change up, you know,
27:17how you come into it, given, as I say,
27:19you've handicapped a couple of days ahead.
27:22I'm, as a player, I'm more of an exacted guy
27:24and in the last few years, I've gotten into picks,
27:28pick fours especially, I like.
27:31And so then you get into the day
27:34and you're kind of looking like everybody else.
27:36I mean, I said earlier the, you know,
27:39there was a little debate on Twitter
27:40about picking winners versus the ROI for public handicappers.
27:45I aim to get 120 during the year.
27:49That's three a day.
27:50If I do that, I think I'm giving out good information,
27:52but I have no argument with people
27:54who are more focused on ROI.
27:56I think, as I say, both are very relevant and important,
28:01but the way I handicap as a public handicapper,
28:04I try to give them, I think it's more consistent.
28:07I try to pick, here's who I think is going to win.
28:10Here's who I think will finish second, third, fourth.
28:13And then in the commentary, you know, at Saratoga,
28:15we have a handicapping show every morning
28:17so you can hear me there.
28:19The rest of the year, I'm in the studio live
28:21and that's nice also,
28:22because then I can look at the odds and comment.
28:24But I try to, you know, my top pick
28:26is sitting there at six to five
28:28and the next pick is at eight to one.
28:30And I'm saying on the morning show,
28:33you know, I'm going with the six to five shot,
28:36but very tepidly, I think these two are pretty close.
28:39And you get those odds in the afternoon.
28:41I'm going with the eight to one shot.
28:44I'm using that one certainly somehow
28:45and hopefully people are as well.
28:47So again, I'm kind of looking at staying consistent
28:51and going, here's who I think is first,
28:53here's who I think is second.
28:54Because as a public handicapper these days,
28:58there are so many betting opportunity options out there.
29:01You know, it's not just, it's not 50 years ago
29:03with win play show and three executives
29:06and one triple a day.
29:07There are the pick bets, there's everything.
29:09So somebody who is negative, including me,
29:12got a three to five shot for a win bet.
29:15That may be either single and a pick five
29:17because they have a couple of 20 to one shots later on
29:20that they want to include that they think are very good.
29:22So I try to stay consistent with, as I say,
29:24what I think is going to happen top, you know,
29:26first, second, third, fourth,
29:28but I try to comment in a way
29:31that either separates them appropriately or closes the gap
29:35so that in the afternoon people can kind of look at the odds
29:38and make their own decisions.
29:39And that's what the bot,
29:40you're going to make your own decision anyway
29:42because as I say, you have different types of bets
29:44which require different types of strategies.
29:47But for me, as I say, I'm looking at the exact as,
29:51I'm looking at the picks and I'm looking during the day
29:55to find some interesting prices in my mix
29:59that will allow me to then make the decisions exact as
30:02or and or pick bets because that's where the value is.
30:07Obviously, if you can start to see some six, seven,
30:09eight to one shots and up,
30:11then you can concentrate on those races a little bit
30:14and hopefully make some money.
30:16Well, that's why I think it's so key
30:18to have those kind of all day streaming, you know,
30:22options for the better, for the better at home,
30:24because it's one thing to read it in the paper on a website
30:28and say this so-and-so likes this horse for tomorrow,
30:31but then when you're watching it in real time
30:33and the person can tell you, like you said,
30:35well, I like this horse, but not at this price,
30:37that to me can give people
30:39more informed decision-making than just putting it
30:42in the paper a couple of days out.
30:43And this is like my, that's kind of my dilemma
30:45because I'm doing a, this is like my first foray
30:48into public handicapping is this show.
30:49And so you have like a little Breeders' Cup sponsorship
30:52where I pick a bunch of the Breeders' Cup
30:54winning year-end races,
30:55but I pick them on Wednesday and Thursday
30:57and I'm not going to pick a horse
30:58that I know is going to be four to five.
31:00Even if I think the horse is tough to beat, you know,
31:02I'm trying to make people money.
31:03And if, if there is a four to five shot that I, you know,
31:06I can't get past, let's try to play a pick five
31:08or a pick four or something.
31:10So there is that pressure, I think,
31:11to really try to maximize value as much as you can.
31:15And it's harder to do days out for sure.
31:17But let's talk, no, let's talk a little bit about sports.
31:19Are you a sports guy?
31:20Do you ever do sports betting?
31:21Is that any part of your handle?
31:23I haven't really gotten into sports betting yet anyway,
31:27but I, and as far as sports, you know,
31:30I played football in high school
31:32and I still play some old man basketball at the Y.
31:36And so, you know, I paid a little bit
31:38to college football and the NFL.
31:39That said, I'm a Jets fan.
31:41So I'm usually out by about week three
31:44and I'm a Syracuse graduate.
31:46So although they looked good against Louisville
31:48the other day and I guess they're getting a little juice.
31:50They got some votes, I get one of the polls.
31:52So maybe some Syracuse this year,
31:55but I'm a huge college basketball guy.
31:56Love Syracuse.
31:58You know, I lament to this day,
32:00the demise of the old Big East,
32:02which I think was college basketball at its best.
32:06But I still follow up Syracuse quite a bit.
32:08Yeah.
32:09Yeah, I was actually,
32:09I went to the last Big East championship game
32:12at the Garden before the Big East split up
32:15because that was heaven.
32:16I mean, I was basketball heaven.
32:18Those days, those tournaments at the Garden,
32:20it was just, it was electric and it was nothing like it.
32:24So with the last championship game,
32:25I was like, I don't care how much the tickets are.
32:27I gotta be in the building for this finale of the Big East.
32:29Let's commiserate about the Jets real quick.
32:32And I will promise the audience we won't go long,
32:34but it's just only because this happened today
32:37that I have to bring this up.
32:38The thing with Zach Wilson,
32:39where literally Monday the coach says he might be back
32:43because he tore his meniscus in the preseason.
32:45Literally the coach says on Monday,
32:47he might be able to play this week.
32:48And then today says the earliest he'll be back is week four.
32:52Tell me another franchise, Seth,
32:54that has this kind of bumbling incompetence on off days,
32:58on a Wednesday.
32:59Like it just, it never ends.
33:02I'm sure you can commiserate with that.
33:05It's just, what's amazing to me is they're in New York City,
33:08the biggest market and how do they not get
33:13some kind of a team at some point that can go.
33:16And virtually every year,
33:19on one of the Saratoga shows, NBC's in town
33:22and I'll have Randy Moss and Jerry Bailey over.
33:25And Randy Moss, of course,
33:26now also covers the NFL network and he knows.
33:29And we go to a commercial, he turns to me,
33:31he says, how about those Jets every year?
33:33And I can't say anything back.
33:36No, he does the exact same thing to me.
33:38But yeah, just like the mundane incompetence.
33:42Like we're not even talking game day.
33:44We're talking just getting through the injury report.
33:46They can't manage to do it without looking stupid.
33:48Brutal, it's brutal.
33:51When I was a kid, as I say, I was a quarterback
33:55when I was in little league and in high school.
33:56So I was a fan.
33:58And so at least I got that memory working for me.
34:01I was pretty small when that happened.
34:03So it's a very distant memory.
34:06Well, I'll tell you one last Jets thing.
34:09This should include me in here.
34:10The first year I rooted for them was 1999,
34:13which was the year after they made it
34:14to the AFC Championship and lost to the Broncos.
34:16Literally the first quarter of the first game
34:19I rooted for the Jets, Vinny Testaverde tours Achilles
34:23on that old concrete at the Meadowlands.
34:25And I should have taken that as a sign
34:27and been like, maybe you should pick a different team.
34:31Here I am 20 years later.
34:34Pick a different team.
34:35But you know, when that happens,
34:36when either of us, then that's the year.
34:38Now we put them in the winner's circle.
34:41Yes, exactly.
34:42Yeah, it's like when you're against the horse.
34:44And yeah, I know, I know.
34:46I try not to get too broken up about it,
34:48but it's just hard, man.
34:50It is.
34:52Yeah.
34:53All right, so let's talk about this.
34:55I'm curious because I think most handicappers
34:57would have like a score or a horse really
35:00that really grabbed them and brought them into the sport.
35:03Do you have like a memorable score or a memorable horse
35:06that really kind of solidified your love for racing?
35:10Forgo was mine.
35:11Forgo, when I first got into the game, he was there
35:14and he was a horse that could carry weight.
35:16I mean, there was that crazy when he gave 30 pounds away
35:18and caught what, Honest Pleasure Fool in the stretch.
35:23And just insane.
35:26And then I saw him up at Saratoga in the slop
35:28and my in-person race, he didn't run well at all,
35:32which was a little bit disappointing.
35:33But he is very much the horse that pulled me into the game.
35:37One of my most memorable in-person races
35:41and a horse that had a memorable race at Saratoga,
35:46General Assembly, when he set the track record
35:48in the Travers.
35:49That day, I liked Smart, who was a Woody Stevens horse,
35:53who had kind of bounced around and done pretty well
35:55and come to some of those second string dirt,
35:58the Ohio Derby, maybe.
36:00And so that day, I was all over Smart.
36:03And Smart runs great and is well clear
36:07of the third place horse,
36:08but well behind General Assembly.
36:10But that was a great performance.
36:12And of course, the track record of that
36:13held up for years and years.
36:15So that was my best in-person performance.
36:18True handicapper.
36:18He remembers even the horses he liked that ran second.
36:22That's when you feel like you were right.
36:24It sticks because I thought, man, any other day,
36:26he wins by 10, but with General Assembly in there,
36:29no, it doesn't happen.
36:30I know, so-and-so wasn't in the race.
36:32You know, let's just ask real quick
36:34your impressions on Flightline,
36:36because when you bring up Forgo,
36:38those are horses that I've heard about
36:40and I know through history, but I've never seen in person.
36:44You haven't seen Flightline in person yet, I'm assuming,
36:46but just watching them on TV,
36:48is there anybody that you can compare them to?
36:51I thought that race the other day was incredible.
36:53And then the buyer figure comes out
36:55and you're just, wow, this is insane.
36:58And, you know, for anybody who's kind of arguing,
37:01but he's only had so many starts,
37:03and, you know, will some point there be some adversity
37:07that he has to overcome?
37:09Those are legitimate questions.
37:10I mean, here in the 21st century, for better or worse,
37:14we do have horses with limited schedules.
37:17I would like to see horses that came out in the,
37:21I'm not gonna see this again,
37:23but came out in the days when I first got into the game.
37:26I mean, the Wood Memorial used to be a couple of weeks
37:27before the Derby.
37:29That doesn't happen anymore.
37:31And so it's a different type of schedule now and whatnot.
37:34This guy's even a little more limited,
37:35but I did have Terry Finley on a few weeks ago.
37:38He said on my morning show,
37:40and I think it was reiterated
37:41by the Flightline folks this week,
37:43that they're hoping to get him back next year.
37:44So that's great for the game.
37:46So we'll see what he does in the Breeders' Cup,
37:48but I think there's no denying what we've seen so far
37:52with the exclamation point on the other day.
37:55He's something special.
37:57That, again, folks like you
37:58who maybe didn't get to see a four-goer or whatnot,
38:00this is your horse to kind of be able to say
38:0320 years down the line.
38:04I was there when, because it's special.
38:07I know, and actually we had Costa Jaronis
38:09on the writer's room today, and he said the same thing.
38:11He said, quote, there's a great possibility
38:13he'll be back as a five-year-old.
38:15Now, I've heard that before,
38:16and then the horses were whisked off the stud,
38:18but it does seem like there was at least some intention
38:21to bring him back, so we'll cross our fingers for that.
38:24All right, last question for me.
38:26We talked about your public handicapping skills
38:28and your role there, but you were also a journalist.
38:31You also covered racing as a journalist.
38:33One of the things that kind of causes me
38:35a little bit of consternation about racing journalism,
38:37it's like a little bit too deferential sometimes,
38:40and you guys don't do this.
38:41You and Steve are pretty good about telling it like it is,
38:44and at the writer's room,
38:45we pride ourselves on that as well,
38:47but I just think of all the years
38:48that people reported on Jason Service and Jorge Navarro
38:52with a straight face, and it's just not enough scrutiny
38:55for me to where, when something, a huge controversy happens,
38:58like the FBI indictments, I think all of racing media
39:01kind of had egg on its face after that.
39:03What do you feel about that?
39:05Do you think that racing journalism
39:06needs to be a little bit more adversarial,
39:08or how do you feel?
39:10Yeah, I have mixed feelings on that,
39:11because to me, it's maybe more the place
39:14of mainstream media, because these days, I think,
39:19and maybe justifiably so,
39:21because there are press boxes around the country,
39:25there just aren't that many people there anymore,
39:27and so I think there's maybe a feeling of,
39:30geez, if we insult these guys,
39:32we aren't gonna get anything from them.
39:34Yeah.
39:37It seems like maybe it's easier for people
39:40who aren't part of the racing media of the press
39:45to go and chase these stories and kind of uncover
39:49what needs to be uncovered, and I totally agree.
39:52The stuff that should be uncovered needs to be uncovered,
39:55and somebody should be doing it,
39:57but I kind of get that the racing media
40:00is maybe a little reluctant,
40:01and I'm not saying that's right,
40:04that if they go in and kind of justifiably dig,
40:08they may get some pushback,
40:11but I think that's maybe the way it is,
40:13and so it's just perhaps easier
40:16for those outside of that to go in
40:20and kind of dig up a little bit and uncover some things,
40:23because again, I totally agree.
40:25The stuff, there is stuff that deserves to be exposed,
40:28and that is, I'm not gonna say,
40:32hey, let's put a cover on some of these stories,
40:36but it's just who does it and how best it gets done
40:40is maybe the question mark.
40:42Yeah, I mean, it's such an insular world,
40:43and there are so many people in racing
40:45that have a lot of power
40:46that are kind of doing some shady stuff,
40:48and they have a lot of friends in high places,
40:51and they can bite back at people
40:52and be vindictive and that kind of stuff,
40:54but yeah, I get what you're saying,
40:56that it might be better suited for the role
40:58that the mainstream media has.
41:00And the part of-
41:01Thank you so much for the time.
41:02Part of the problem there, I have to say,
41:04the mainstream media has kind of abandoned racing,
41:06and so then you're left in this void
41:08of how do you get the mainstream media
41:10to look at some of these stories
41:12and look at some of these stories
41:14and then balance it all out.
41:16Then it's a little bit of,
41:18well, we're bringing these guys in
41:19to uncover this bad story,
41:21but the rest of the year,
41:22they don't cover the good stuff anymore.
41:24So that's a little bit of a,
41:26it's a conundrum, I guess, is the dilemma.
41:30Definitely.
41:31Well, it's great to hear your insight,
41:32and you're such a good handicapper and a good guy,
41:35and I've admired you for a long time,
41:37and it was great to get to know you a little bit more.
41:39Tell the people where they can catch you on Capital OTB.
41:44Capital OTB TV, as I say, during Saratoga again next year,
41:49we'll be live from the backstreets every morning
41:51from 9 to 11, 9 to 10 handicapping,
41:5310 to 11 with interviews.
41:56The rest of the year,
41:56we go from a little studio down in our OTB race book
42:00down on Central Avenue in Albany.
42:01We have a little TV studio there.
42:03I'm back in to start things up on Friday afternoon.
42:06Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,
42:09I come in in the afternoon
42:10and kind of handicap two or three of the tracks we're showing
42:13just kind of jump in and give some ideas
42:15during the afternoon.
42:16Saturdays, there's a handicapping show at nine,
42:19interviews at 10, and Sundays at 10 o'clock,
42:22we do some interviews and some recaps and whatnot.
42:25And again, you can watch it up here upstate on cable,
42:28but you can also catch us live,
42:29the morning shows, Capital OTB YouTube channel,
42:32or as I say, the Robert's channel,
42:34we're a sub RTM or a sub channel.
42:36Now you can pick that up on Roku or Firestick.
42:41Definitely worth watching and check out
42:42Equidaily 2.0 coming soon from Seth Marrow.
42:46Seth, really appreciate the time, man.
42:47Thanks for talking to me.
42:48It was fun.
42:49Thanks Joe, appreciate it.
42:50All right, so last week on better things
42:56and our Breeders' Cup handicapping segment,
42:58unfortunately we came up empty minus $288,
43:01although we definitely got unlucky
43:02with Warlight Goddess coming up just short
43:04in the flower bowl, that she was clearly best
43:07and got victimized by a real laughably slow pace,
43:10but that happens sometimes.
43:11And even so, the rest of the pick five chalked out.
43:13So I probably would have only broken
43:15even on that ticket anyway.
43:16Olympiad bounced back in a big way
43:18in the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
43:19You have to say the horses behind him
43:21were pretty disappointing.
43:22And considering the way he ran Saturday,
43:24I probably saved money in the Whitney
43:26when American Revolution scratched.
43:28Overall, I stand at plus $270 and 45 cents.
43:32So we're still in the black.
43:33There's a couple more of these episodes to go.
43:35We turn to this Saturday
43:36and the betters paradise of Kentucky Downs,
43:39which will host two winning year-end challenge races
43:41for the Breeders' Cup.
43:42First, in the day's ninth race,
43:44a full field of 12 older males will go six furlongs
43:47in the grade two FanDuel turf sprint,
43:50a fees paid qualifier for the Breeders' Cup turf sprint.
43:52And then the 10th, another full field of older males
43:55will go a mile and a half
43:56in the grade two Kentucky turf cup stakes,
44:01a qualifier for the $4 million
44:03Longines Breeders' Cup turf.
44:05The two races can be seen on CNBC
44:07from five to six o'clock Eastern time.
44:10This is where it's at.
44:11You know, I talked about Kentucky Downs last week
44:13during my interview with CJ Johnson,
44:14but it's some of, if not the best value
44:17for an American horse player on the entire calendar,
44:20full fields, low takeout, turf racing.
44:23It's a very difficult meet to handicap,
44:25but it's also the kind of meet
44:26where you only need to be right once or twice
44:28to make it worthwhile.
44:29Start with the turf sprint, which is interesting
44:32because Kentucky Downs doesn't run a lot
44:34of six furlong races due to the track's configuration
44:37and how long the turn and the stretch are.
44:39So the six furlong gate is basically
44:41at the top of the far turn,
44:43which gives a distinct disadvantage to horses
44:46in the outside post.
44:47And the heavy favorite in here, Arrest Me Red,
44:49just happened to draw the 12 hole.
44:51The issue is there's not that much speed to his inside,
44:54so he should be able to clear
44:55or at least get to the two path in short order.
44:58But overall, it's a great betting race
44:59where even if Arrest Me Red wins,
45:01you can still get paid with some prices underneath.
45:04The two long shots I'm most interested in
45:06are number four, Charcoal,
45:07and number nine, Front Run the Fed.
45:09Charcoal's an improving horse
45:11who's coming off of two sneaky big races
45:13that are better than they look on paper.
45:15Two back, he dueled on a fast pace
45:17and won the battle but lost the war,
45:19finished a close second.
45:20Then last time, he got bottled up in traffic
45:22for much of the stretch before just getting clear late,
45:25and again, running a narrow second.
45:28The thing I like about him
45:29is he's got enough speed to lay close
45:31to what should be a pretty moderate pace.
45:33He's gonna be at least 15 to one.
45:35Front Run the Fed is easily fast enough to win this,
45:37so he probably won't be his 15 to one morning line,
45:40but he's dropping out of a grade one
45:42in the third start of his form cycle.
45:43So I'm happy with either eight or 10 to one on him.
45:46And number six, Bob's Edge, it's an impossible either.
45:49He's 30 to one morning line.
45:50He's got a big late kick.
45:52He's got a win on turf,
45:53and he's got dirt figures that make him competitive.
45:55He would benefit if number 13,
45:57Artemis City Limits, drew into the race.
46:00He would add significantly more early speed
46:03to set up Bob's Edge's late kick.
46:05So the play in the FanDuel Turf Sprint,
46:07we're gonna do $30 to win each on number four.
46:10And number nine, $10 to win on number six.
46:1450 cent trifecta box, four, five, six, nine, 12,
46:17which costs $30.
46:19A $10 exact, and number 12, Arrest Me Red,
46:22over the four and the nine.
46:23So that's $120 total.
46:26In the Turf Cup, number eight, Gifo,
46:28is clearly the horse to beat.
46:29He's running back in just two weeks.
46:31We don't even see, we never see this in racing.
46:33He's wheeling back just 14 days
46:35after winning the grade one Sword Dancer at Saratoga.
46:38You love to see it.
46:39Number three, Temple, and number four, Arklow,
46:42look like his main two challengers,
46:43but neither is gonna be a particularly enticing price.
46:46So I'm gonna throw in two long shots.
46:48First is number one, Red Knight,
46:50who was second to Arklow in this race in 2020.
46:53His form wasn't great last year and he's eight years old now
46:56so who knows if he can still really run,
46:58but he was transferred to Mike Maker over the winter.
47:00Mike Maker just cannot do any wrong
47:02at these Kentucky Downs meets.
47:04And Red Knight won his first race for the barn
47:07off the layoff.
47:08And number two, Breakpoint is interesting as well.
47:10He went wire to wire going further than this,
47:13going a mile and three quarters.
47:15I think, to my knowledge,
47:16the only mile and three quarters race in America,
47:19was the San Juan Capistrano Stakes at Santa Anita.
47:21He went wire to wire,
47:22despite setting pretty honest fractions.
47:24The half in there was 47 and four.
47:26So that was a pretty impressive effort,
47:28even though we only got a 91 buyer.
47:30So I'll try to get those two to win
47:32or at least get in the number.
47:33I'll also throw in number 12,
47:34highest honors underneath for Chad Brown.
47:37So the play here in the Turf Cup Stakes
47:39is a $1 trifecta, one, two, eight,
47:42with one, two, three, four, eight, 12
47:45with one, two, three, four, eight, 12.
47:47So that's $60.
47:48$5 trifecta, eight gufo with three, four, 12
47:52with one, two, in case the one and the two run third
47:56and it chucks out on top for a cost of $30.
47:59And then a $10 exact, eight gufo with one, two
48:02for a cost of $20.
48:04That's a total of $110.
48:06The total amount invested over the two races is $230.
48:10We'll put all those plays up on the screen.
48:12Tune in from five to six Eastern on CNBC
48:14as we hopefully make some money
48:16and build that bankroll
48:17while seeing two tickets punched to the Breeders' Cup,
48:20which is now less than two months away
48:23on November 4th and November 5th at Keeneland.
48:26Good luck if you're following along.
48:30Okay, so that's gonna do it
48:31for this episode of Better Things with Joe Bianca.
48:34Thank you so much for tuning in.
48:35Thank you to my guest, Seth Merrow, for coming on.
48:37Love talking to him.
48:38Go check him out at Equidaily,
48:40on Twitter at Seth Merrow too,
48:42and on the Capital OTB broadcast.
48:44He does a great job.
48:45I also wanna thank our producer, Patty Wolf,
48:47the Breeders' Cup, for their sponsorship,
48:49and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Leah LaRocca,
48:52and Nathan Wilkinson.
48:53Thank you so much for watching.
48:54Follow along and watch the Breeders' Cup winning
48:57year-end challenge races from Kentucky Downs,
48:59five to six Eastern this Saturday on CNBC.
49:02We'll see you next time on Better Things with Joe Bianca.