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00:00This is Episode 6 of Better Things with Joe Bianca.
00:03Later in the show, we're going to be handicapping the Flower
00:06Bowl and the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
00:07This Saturday at Saratoga, both are Breeders' Cup Challenge
00:10win-in-year-end races, that Breeders' Cup-sponsored
00:13segment.
00:13We got a $558 profit still from two weeks ago,
00:16so we'll see if we can build on that.
00:18But first, we're going to talk to CJ Johnson, who's
00:20one of my favorite people to talk to in the industry.
00:23He's a smart, young guy who pioneered
00:25one of the biggest turnarounds of a racetrack in racing
00:28history, I think.
00:29Joined Kentucky Downs as an executive in 2012
00:32and built that track from kind of a forgotten meet that
00:35just was in the shadows of the Saratoga and Del Mar meets
00:39into now one of the marquee race meets in America.
00:42It's only seven days, but they attract big fields,
00:45great turf racing, low takeout, great for the betters.
00:48And this is Better Things, so it's definitely something
00:50that you should pay attention to.
00:52CJ was integral in the turnaround of that track,
00:54and he's also a really smart guy and a funny guy
00:57and just easy to talk to.
00:58We had a great conversation about all things betting,
01:01sports, even a little hip hop.
01:03So check out our interview with CJ Johnson.
01:10Welcome back to Better Things.
01:12I'm so excited for this next guest.
01:13He's an excellent handicapper.
01:15He's qualified for the NHC, the BCBC,
01:17used to be an executive at Kentucky Downs,
01:19and we've seen what the fruits of those labor are.
01:22And now he's the vice president of his CJ Thoroughbred.
01:24CJ Johnson, thanks so much for coming on.
01:27No problem.
01:27Thanks for having me.
01:28Great to have you.
01:29I mean, there's so much I want to get into with you.
01:31You've been a fascinating guy to me for a little bit now.
01:33But this show is called Better Things,
01:35so let's start by talking about your handicapping background.
01:37Where did you first fall in love with racing,
01:39and when did you get the horse player bug?
01:41Well, let's see.
01:44I was born in Shreveport, Louisiana.
01:45My dad worked at Louisiana Downs.
01:47And honestly, I've got pictures of me
01:50at about probably four or five with a DRF
01:53hanging out in the announcer's booth at Louisiana Downs.
01:56And I remember he used to give me $20 a day
01:58when we go to the races.
01:59I bet $2 per race.
02:01That was all, you know, I'm a little kid running around.
02:04And so then it evolved from there a little bit,
02:08obviously growing up around the track.
02:10And basically, I went in college.
02:13I went to the University of Arizona for a year and a half,
02:16was in the racetrack industry program,
02:18transferred back in-state to Texas
02:21because we were living in the Dallas area.
02:23So I went to Texas Tech.
02:24And I kind of, I call it my dark days of racing,
02:26but that was like early 2000s.
02:28I didn't follow it, you know,
02:29because I was around it my whole life,
02:31burnt out a little bit, blah, blah, blah.
02:33And I'd say late, probably like 2008, 2009,
02:38it just like sucked me right back in.
02:39And that's when I really started, you know,
02:43I already knew a lot about how to read a form
02:45and betting and all that kind of stuff,
02:47but I started playing a lot of contests then.
02:49And also my dad was big into contests back then too.
02:53He would always go play that Del Mar,
02:55the big Del Mar contest,
02:56and he started qualifying for the NHC.
02:58So I was like, man, I'll give it a shot.
03:01And I think I qualified for the NHC
03:06and then qualified for the BCBC at Keeneland.
03:10And kind of from there, like 2010 on,
03:14I started really working on my, you know,
03:16my pick fours, pick fives and exotic wagering.
03:20And so that it just kind of, you know,
03:22that part's always been with me.
03:24I'll always be a gambler first.
03:24I mean, and, you know, being at Kentucky Downs,
03:28that background really helped me
03:29in kind of making a better place for horse players.
03:32That's so true.
03:33And I, you know, I want to talk so much about that.
03:35And it's really one of the remarkable success stories,
03:37I think, of the 21st century in racing
03:39is you started at Kentucky Downs in 2012.
03:42And it was, I mean, you can tell me
03:44what it was like back then,
03:45but now it has grown into the most
03:47horse player friendly product, I think, in America.
03:49Huge fields, obviously the purses are gigantic.
03:52Can you just talk about what it was like
03:54when you first started there
03:55compared to when you left?
03:57Yeah, it, and again, my father being a, you know,
04:02loving to place bets and that kind of stuff,
04:04it really helped because he understands, you know,
04:06that's what drives this game.
04:08I mean, we are nothing without Handel.
04:10And he instilled in me early on when I was at Arizona,
04:14like how important takeout is and that kind of stuff
04:16and having a, you know, a nice wagering product.
04:20And so we kind of revamped the wagering menu
04:23when I got in there and I helped out
04:25kind of before I officially took over,
04:27he would come to me because he knew, you know,
04:29I could, I understood these things
04:32and we kind of worked on it.
04:33And then, you know, long story short,
04:36in 2012, the past GM resigned kind of
04:40with a month before the meet.
04:41And I basically was asked to just come in
04:43and handle it all.
04:44But anyways, it was fun because, you know,
04:47we not only lowered the takeouts,
04:50and look, I know historical horse racing
04:52helped those fields, you know,
04:54those field sizes to be very competitive
04:56and make it a great product.
04:58But I don't think the Handel would have jumped like it did
05:01if we kept the normal takeout rates.
05:03And, you know, we kind of worked on some new wagers.
05:06We did the Jockey 7 for a little while.
05:08That was fun.
05:09You know, a new management decided not to go on with it,
05:12but we were, you know,
05:13that was kind of more of a wager for the newbies
05:16that maybe not the newbies,
05:17but there's still people that just love to bet
05:19on their jockey, right?
05:20I mean, and it was a way to kind of, you know,
05:23people to get involved over seven races
05:25and have fun kind of betting on that human element of it all.
05:29Well, you know, that we did it two years
05:31and Handel jumped 50% in the two years, you know.
05:34So stuff like that, though,
05:36it was a lot of fun getting to do that.
05:38And I'm glad, you know, the new owners and management
05:42didn't really mess with the wagering menu
05:44because I think that was part of the thing
05:45that makes it so great.
05:47Well, how much of a challenge was it?
05:49Because one of the things that's so impressive
05:51about Kentucky Downs' success to me
05:53is that you're going out right against
05:54the end of the Saratoga and Delmar meets.
05:56It's not as if you're running in some place on the calendar
05:59where there's nothing else going on.
06:00So how much of a struggle was it
06:02and what kind of things did you guys do
06:03to attract attention that normally
06:05maybe go into those quote unquote bigger meets?
06:07Yeah, I mean, look,
06:09that was always a problem was quality, right?
06:11You're, all of those top tier horses were pointing at,
06:15you know, the end of Saratoga.
06:16And so what we really tried to do
06:18was we would get with Keeneland and say,
06:20all right, let's see your stake schedule.
06:22We want to run preps for these.
06:24And, you know, some of those guys,
06:26maybe it was a loaded field at Saratoga or whatever,
06:28they'd skip that and come down to us.
06:30And that was when the quality was still kind of,
06:32you know, working its way up.
06:33Now I look at the overnights
06:34and Chad Brown's got a bunch in, you know,
06:36and we could never get him to come down.
06:37And I understand it because you're based in New York.
06:40You've got these really nice turf horses.
06:42Why, you know, as we all know,
06:43shipping a horse is not easy.
06:45And coming from New York,
06:46it's one thing when you're in Kentucky,
06:48you know, we can keep those Kentucky guys around.
06:50But when you're in New York and you're Chad Brown
06:52and you've got, you know,
06:53you're going to be running this horse that's,
06:55you know, even money,
06:56that's, and it's a,
06:58you never know if the horse is going to take to the track.
07:00You know, so we really tried to get those guys
07:03and kind of one by one,
07:04they started trickling down from New York.
07:06I mean, cause you know,
07:07the turf racing in Kentucky is great
07:09and it's obviously grown,
07:10but you know, during these summer times,
07:12you know, Saratoga is a spot to run,
07:14you know, really nice turf horses.
07:16And then, and then also we had, you know,
07:18horses shipping in from Delmar.
07:20They kind of started seeing what was going on.
07:21And, you know,
07:23I remember a couple of those guys were coming out.
07:25And so it, you know, it was just kind of,
07:28you got to take care of them, honestly.
07:30And it's tough because logistically they got,
07:32they got to have their help down there.
07:33And when we don't have a full backside with dorms
07:36and all that kind of stuff, like, you know,
07:37we would make arrangements with them and say,
07:39look, all right, you know, we'll help you out here.
07:41We'll, you know, we can find you, you know,
07:44groom here, whatever here.
07:45And you just kind of had to listen to them
07:48and make accommodations for them.
07:49I mean, it's, it's a pain, but it is what it is.
07:52And if you really want to make that place work,
07:54you have to do that.
07:55Well, one more question I can tell you Dan,
07:57cause I think the presentation
07:59has gotten so much better too.
08:00It used to be really hard to watch those races.
08:03And I think you guys did a great job
08:05in terms of HD cameras and having different angles
08:07and all that.
08:08Yeah.
08:09And you mentioned not having like a full backstretch
08:11with dorms and everything.
08:12Like what are some of the other logistical challenges
08:14that you guys had from it being such a unique track?
08:18Yeah.
08:18So in 2012, we were still pretty small.
08:23Our handle was okay, you know, but it was,
08:26it was the on-track crowd wasn't what it is now.
08:31You know what I'm saying?
08:32And a lot of your revenue comes from on-track
08:35either wagering, hot dog sales, beer sales,
08:37you know what I'm saying?
08:38All that kind of stuff, right?
08:39And so when you're not drawing that many people on track
08:41because you're kind of newish,
08:43I mean, I know they'd been around for a while,
08:44but it wasn't on the map for anyone, you know,
08:46it wasn't that destination spot.
08:48And so it was tough because like I went in
08:51and I had to do literally everything from starting gates,
08:56ambulances, horse ambulance, outriders,
08:59racing office staff, you know what I'm saying?
09:02Tampers for the turf course, mutual clerks.
09:05I was like putting everything together.
09:07And it was so much, I mean, A, it's like my first,
09:11you know, real gig running a racetrack operationally.
09:14And it was just like, I get in there
09:16and I got a month to put it all together and it was insane.
09:19And so then once we started growing on track,
09:21it was like, all right, we kind of got more revenue.
09:23And it was like, I got help finally.
09:25And so someone could take, you know,
09:28we had someone working on the backside
09:30and doing this and doing that.
09:31And so I was able to kind of focus on just wagering and TV
09:35but you know, what people don't realize
09:37is when you run five days over two weeks,
09:40I still have to rent those starting gates for two weeks.
09:42It's not like, I'm not paying per day.
09:46I mean, I'm not paying per race day, I'm paying per day.
09:48You know what I'm saying?
09:49So it's real hard to make that money and get that revenue in.
09:52And I mean, look, it's a business, man.
09:54Like, you know, I go say, hey, we need to add HD.
09:57We need to do these, you know, this for our production.
09:59And it's like, well, can't afford that right now.
10:02Like, let's just get through.
10:03And people think, oh my God,
10:05they got $100,000 made in special weights.
10:07Put that money into your cameras.
10:09Well, you have a deal with the horsemen.
10:11It doesn't work like that.
10:12Like that money's gotta go to purses, you know?
10:14And so, I mean, getting a new inside rail,
10:18all that kind of stuff's gotta come out of your bottom line.
10:21And people just don't really understand that.
10:22And so I'd be on Twitter and people just,
10:24I mean, bitching nonstop at me, you know?
10:26And I'm like, man, trust me, I'm trying.
10:29And the towers in the first place
10:30weren't in the right spots at all, you know?
10:32I mean, it was an absolute nightmare.
10:35And so it was kind of like a year by year thing.
10:37You know, I try to go, all right,
10:39I got the paying camera HD.
10:40Next year, I'm gonna try to add two more HD cameras.
10:42And then, you know, that kind of stuff.
10:44And so it was little by little,
10:46but now the new owners and new management,
10:49they're putting a lot of money into it.
10:50And I think it's gotten a lot better, you know,
10:52since I left and good,
10:54because I'll admit it was tough to follow, man.
10:56I mean.
10:57Yeah.
10:58Well, and listen, you laid the groundwork
10:59for the success that it's having now.
11:01Like how much pride do you feel
11:03and how much of a marquee meet that's become?
11:05Because, you know, you really were building that.
11:08Yeah, I do have a lot of pride.
11:10And, you know, the people who were friends with me
11:12then know what I went through.
11:14I mean, I lived out there for a while.
11:17And then once my wife and I decided
11:20to start having more kids,
11:21we wanted to move closer to the family,
11:23back to the Dallas Fort Worth area.
11:25And so I would go out there and basically live
11:27in a hotel for a month.
11:29You know what I'm saying?
11:30I'd have to be away from home.
11:32And it was like 12 hour work days,
11:34but I took a lot of pride in it and I still do.
11:37And now my job is trying to win a race there
11:41and it's fricking impossible, man.
11:43Like we've run second a couple of times
11:45and like, I just can't get it.
11:46I can't get a win there,
11:47but we're going to run in the two-year-old stakes
11:51on the 11th.
11:51So hopefully we can get lucky and get a win there.
11:54There you go.
11:55Well, that leads me into my next question.
11:56Cause you also own and breed Thoroughbreds
11:58under CJ Thoroughbreds
11:59and have had a good amount of success.
12:01In fact, I remember you were tied
12:03for leading owner very briefly.
12:06For a day or two.
12:07Yeah, that was the highlight.
12:09That was a huge, huge deal, man.
12:12That's nothing to sneeze at,
12:13but listen, so what's that journey been like
12:16as an owner and as a breeder?
12:18Cause I know it's in your family,
12:19but in terms of you in like a position
12:22of an executive position, that might be a newer thing.
12:25Yeah.
12:26I mean, like, you know, my old man,
12:29he dabbled here and there.
12:30We would have like a mare, you know what I'm saying?
12:33And breeder and just run and have some fun.
12:35And so I kind of cut my teeth
12:37in the horseman side of it there.
12:40And, you know, we got lucky
12:42and had a nice two-year-old that we bred
12:44and he won a stakes at Golden Gate
12:46and we sold him for a decent amount of money.
12:48And that kind of, you know, got us going really
12:52to start spending more money.
12:53And so now kind of our focus with our big horses,
12:56we like to put together little groups of partnerships
12:59that our close friends are involved in.
13:03And it's not, it's a way, you know,
13:07to pay my bills for the office,
13:09but like we're not charging crazy management fees.
13:12We're not marking up purchases.
13:13You know what I'm saying?
13:14It's more of like these guys that love the game.
13:16They don't know a lot about it.
13:18They're good friends of ours.
13:19They've always, you know, been interested
13:21and it's a way for them to get involved
13:24and so, I mean, that's kind of like the big horses,
13:26the stakes winners that we usually have
13:28are in those partnerships.
13:29But then on the side, kind of we breed,
13:33like we just sold five Texas bred yearlings yesterday.
13:36Did pretty good, sold one for 75,000, you know?
13:39And so that's kind of our way
13:41to support ourselves right now.
13:44Because like I said,
13:44we're not making any money off these partnerships.
13:47We're just trying to have fun with those,
13:48but that's like, you know, those are the horses you see,
13:51the big horses are in these partnerships.
13:53But it's been, it's tough, man.
13:55It's so up and down, it's, I mean,
13:58we all know it's up and down,
13:59but like when you're looking at the numbers constantly
14:01and you're just like, man,
14:02we haven't won a race in a month.
14:04Like, and you know, but then in the next month,
14:07we'll probably win three or four, you know?
14:09And it's just, when it seems hopeless,
14:10you just gotta keep grinding and keep digging away
14:13and good things will come, you know?
14:15And it's also tough because you gotta do what's right
14:18by the horse, man.
14:19And, you know, it's a really,
14:23really frustrating part of the game
14:25because these things try to kill themselves
14:26every single day.
14:28And I'm telling you every day,
14:29like something new pops up with one of our horses.
14:31I'm like, I've never even heard of that.
14:33I mean, we had a filly have a bad reaction to a vaccine
14:37and she like, you know, was like falling over and stuff.
14:39It's like, what?
14:40You know what I'm saying?
14:41Like, I mean, just something new all the time.
14:44And so it'll test you, man.
14:46It really will.
14:48But I love it.
14:49I mean, I get, you know, I get to go to racetracks
14:52and, you know, sale time here coming up at Keeneland.
14:55It's like the NFL draft.
14:57You know what I'm saying?
14:58You're trying to find that diamond in the rough
14:59and when it works out, there's no better feeling, man.
15:04For sure.
15:05Well, and I'm always curious about this.
15:07The people who have handicapping backgrounds
15:08who manage stables, how much of that factors in,
15:11not just in terms of spotting horses,
15:13but like you were saying, coming up at the sales,
15:14like your knowledge of pedigrees
15:16and how to analyze that,
15:17how much does that go into your operations?
15:20Yeah, well, so pedigree-wise,
15:23that's one thing I've really been trying to focus on
15:25because I think I've gotten pretty good.
15:27Look, I'm not a professional bloodstock agent,
15:29but I'm good enough to tell you, you know what I'm saying?
15:31Nah, this horse is a rat.
15:32This is gonna, you know, this is something nice.
15:34With pedigrees, it's like, you know,
15:37you're handicapped and you're looking at maybe
15:38like a Tomlinson rating or whatever.
15:40Well, everyone, you know,
15:41or everyone knows into mischiefs can run on the slop
15:43and, you know, that kind of stuff.
15:45But with pedigrees, the nicks and the inbreeding
15:51and the, you know, oh man,
15:52this female family loves this duplication, blah, blah,
15:55like that stuff is insane.
15:57And I have a good friend who helps me kind of,
16:00I mean, it is, I just, these pedigree guys are nuts.
16:04And I know more than the average Joe about pedigrees,
16:06but like, I mean, it's crazy.
16:08And so, and it's not really something
16:10you can just pick up a book and read, right?
16:12Because there's also so many different theories
16:15and methods on breeding and all that kind of stuff.
16:18And, you know, one guy will go against
16:21what another guy says, but they both had success.
16:24You know, so that's, and especially like with our breeding,
16:28we don't have the budget to go after
16:29these commercial sires, right?
16:31I don't have good enough mares to send in
16:33to mischief and Uncle Mo, right?
16:36So I'm trying to find value.
16:39I'm trying to find, you know, thing.
16:41And we also will breed the race.
16:43If it's too nice for us, we'll sell it,
16:45but you know what I'm saying?
16:47So it's kind of a different level.
16:50And, but that's one of the things that people don't,
16:53I think a lot of people don't really understand
16:55is the pedigree part of it.
16:57And it's very intimidating and it's very tough to learn.
17:01But yeah, it's, and I'm a student for life too.
17:04You know what I'm saying?
17:05So I find myself in my office, you know,
17:08getting just going down wormholes of reading articles
17:12on, you know, TDN and stuff and looking at different
17:15other people's methods.
17:16You know, I read that one on Mark Johnson's,
17:20how he buys horses from the sales over in England.
17:22You know what I'm saying?
17:23And that's something like we've talked about this year.
17:25Let's maybe we need to, you know,
17:27take an approach like that where, you know,
17:30he's talking about how he can find faults
17:32in vet reports and stuff.
17:34And, you know, cause I'll tell you, man,
17:36like everyone wants a clean vet report, obviously,
17:39but was it raised in bubble wrap?
17:40You know, is it, I mean, if you raise a horse like a horse,
17:44it's probably going to be more sturdy, you know?
17:47And he's like, I find stuff I can live with.
17:49You know, that's a good thing to me.
17:50If they've got a ding on their vet report, you know,
17:52there's so many different, so many different stuff.
17:55Like you can, you'll never be perfect at this game.
17:58Well, there's so much information
17:59and then there's so much context below that information too.
18:02That's what makes it so difficult to digest and analyze
18:05is cause like you said, there's so many underlying factors
18:09just from even the surface information is hard enough
18:11to figure out.
18:12But I just wanted to ask one more handi-gapping question too
18:14because, you know, you seem like you're a busy guy.
18:16Do you still have time to play the horses?
18:18And if so, how do you play?
18:20Yeah, so I do.
18:23I always want to, I mean, I love the action, obviously.
18:26We all do, right?
18:27And I love supporting tracks and pumping money in
18:32for those purses for horsemen.
18:33I mean, and so the thing I'll tell you is
18:37I don't play as many contests as I used to
18:39because I got three kids now and the big contests
18:43are always on the weekends when like, I'm either,
18:46if I'm not traveling, I want to spend that time at home
18:48with my family, you know, and not be glued
18:50in front of a computer playing a 20 race, you know,
18:54tournament, but I still will advocate for tournaments
18:57for people because I think they're great.
18:58And, but so, like now I play a decent amount,
19:04but not so much in volume as I do.
19:08Like Sunday, I put together a $30 pick five at Del Mar,
19:13live in the last leg to five horses.
19:17My payouts are ranging from like 700 to 5,000.
19:21I get nosed out.
19:23The horse paying me five grand gets nosed out
19:26by the horse paying me 700 on a $30 ticket.
19:28You know what I'm saying?
19:29Like I take little cheap shots like that
19:31and just kind of for the action.
19:34And that was just a mess around.
19:35Now, if I'm really playing, I'll structure properly.
19:37And you know, the Twitter ticket police
19:41won't be so angry with me,
19:42but I just don't have time to anymore, you know,
19:45because that takes more time
19:46if you properly want to play, right?
19:48I mean, we all, you know, I think we all understand
19:50waiting and pressing tickets and that kind of stuff.
19:53But now I just kind of play caveman's
19:56and depending on how much time I spent on the sequence,
20:00you know, is how big I'll play it.
20:01Like Del Mar, I'll be honest,
20:02the other night I spent 15 minutes putting,
20:05you know, putting my pick five together
20:07and I played a $30 pick five and I played it perfect.
20:09I got lucky.
20:10I still made 700 bucks,
20:12but the five grand would have been nice.
20:13But no, I look for takeout.
20:17And again, I'm not playing every race.
20:19You know, I'm not playing tries
20:20and I'm not trying to sit there.
20:23I'm trying to put one ticket in and have action for a while.
20:25You know, now when I'm at the track,
20:27that's a totally different story.
20:30You know, other, if I'm not,
20:32if it's not a real social day, you know,
20:34like Whitney day at Saratoga,
20:35I made like one bet and it was a,
20:38it was golden pal over the motion.
20:40I hammered the $50 executive straight.
20:42That was the only bet I made all day.
20:44You know what I'm saying?
20:45Cause I was just being social with everyone
20:46and having fun and I wasn't trying to worry
20:48about gambling and making money.
20:51But if it's, if it's not, you know,
20:53then I'll play, I'll play every race, you know,
20:55but it's just,
20:57I think there's different kinds of players now
20:58and I can adapt, you know, I'm, I'm kinda,
21:02I can have fun and just mess around, you know,
21:04maybe having a beer with the boys on a Friday night
21:06at the bar and like popping on my account and saying,
21:09Hey guys, you want to throw something in, you know,
21:10that kind of thing, or, or I can get serious about it.
21:13But, but yeah, I mean, takeout matters.
21:15Anytime there's a carry over free money in the pool,
21:18I'll play, you know, and it just,
21:20it just kind of depends how much time I have to put in,
21:23you know, my budget.
21:24I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to just throw away money
21:27just to, you know, have fun and try and hit, you know,
21:30I'm not going to play $150 pick five just to, you know,
21:33so.
21:35Yeah, no, that's, that's definitely a kind of line
21:37in the sand you have to draw
21:38in terms of investing real money.
21:40Like, did I go, did I dive deep enough into this sequence
21:43that it warrants investing this kind of money?
21:45And I think that's,
21:46it's kind of an everlasting struggle for the horse player.
21:48And you're so right.
21:49Like I love playing socially with people.
21:52Like I don't go to the track all that much that often,
21:54but I was, I was at Saratoga a couple of weeks ago
21:56and I was with our associate producer, Katie,
21:58and we put in a ticket, pick five ticket,
22:00had action all day, cash at the end of the day,
22:02split the money.
22:03Like that is so much fun.
22:04And that's the kind of stuff that you want to bring people
22:07to the track to experience, you know?
22:08And it's, you said you have some, some new,
22:10some newish to the game partners.
22:12Like, is that,
22:13is that something that you try to bring them along with too?
22:15Oh yeah.
22:16Yeah.
22:17You know, when we're there at the track,
22:19I can remember Breeders' Cup at Keeneland.
22:24We ran a Philly and we had some partners there
22:26and they, you know, they didn't,
22:30they didn't know a whole lot about the betting side,
22:32you know, for sure.
22:33And so, and one of them happened to be a pro hockey player
22:37and he was with me, not Eric Johnson,
22:40but a buddy of his, Ben Bishop, the goalie for the Stars.
22:43And so he was with me.
22:45He's just had a surgery and is walking around.
22:47I mean, that dude's like 6'7".
22:48He's on crutches.
22:49You know, you couldn't miss him.
22:51I remember when you played against him with Tampa
22:53in the Eastern Conference Finals.
22:55Yeah.
22:56So he, his dad's a partner of ours and a great family.
23:00And he came to the Breeders' Cup
23:02and he, him and his brother had no idea what they were doing.
23:04So I, you know, I kind of showed them the ropes
23:06and then, you know, let them fly on their own a little bit,
23:08but they had a blast doing it, man.
23:10I mean, even though we didn't, we didn't run that well
23:12and they still, it was, it was the experience.
23:15It was all that, but still those guys, I mean, you know,
23:17they could, they could obviously afford to lose
23:19however much they wanted, but they still, you know,
23:21they made some money and didn't get crushed
23:23and still enjoyed the day though.
23:25So, yeah, I definitely try and hold their hand
23:27and on, you know, some of that stuff and explain.
23:29I mean, as we all know, looking at a form
23:32for the first time is, you know, like reading hieroglyphics.
23:35So I kind of just try to point out the main things to them
23:38and, you know, take, you know,
23:42whatever you think about buyers, it is what it is,
23:43but like, you know, they're right there on the form.
23:45It's like, look, man, this is kind of an algorithm
23:47that just tells you their performance, you know,
23:49like use these to start off with,
23:51and then we can talk about thermograph
23:53and all that kind of stuff.
23:53So, but yeah, I definitely, definitely enjoy teaching.
23:59And, I mean, again, it's the only way
24:00we're going to really grow the game
24:01is if we get these new people, you know,
24:06and I'm not trying to turn them into degenerate gamblers,
24:08but like, you know, let's have some fun and learn
24:11and kind of try and hit some tickets and have fun.
24:14Yeah, and feel comfortable enough
24:15in your own ability to read the form.
24:17Like that takes a while, but once you get that,
24:19like you're good, you've created a fan for life.
24:22I'd ask you about this, about Texas racing,
24:24because you're a Texas guy, obviously, you know,
24:27you might have to be politically correct about this.
24:29I'm not sure.
24:31You know, we have this battle right now
24:32with Hyza and the Texas Racing Commission,
24:35and there's like a resulting simulcasting blackout,
24:38and there's obviously repercussions from that.
24:40It's already been said that maybe
24:42the Houston Racing Festival won't happen next year
24:45in Sam Houston.
24:46You know, you don't have to be too specific if you can't,
24:48but like what, just overall,
24:49what are your thoughts about that
24:50and its likelihood to get resolved?
24:53Yeah, and I'm glad you said Houston Racing Festival
24:55might get canceled, because I think one of the things,
24:57some of those articles we read,
24:58they looked like it was doom and gloom and it's done.
25:01And people were asking me, oh my God, Texas Racing's dead.
25:04No, that's if we can't get this sorted out with Hyza.
25:07That is a worst case scenario,
25:08and I don't think those articles did a good job
25:11of explaining that.
25:13I mean, personally, I would have let off with, you know,
25:16if this can't get resolved, here's what's gonna happen.
25:18Right.
25:20I, look, it's Texas.
25:24We don't like the federal government coming in
25:26and telling us what to do, right?
25:27I mean, it is what it is.
25:29I'm not, but from what I've heard,
25:33and I gotta, there is enough high-profile owners in Texas
25:39who have the ear of the governor,
25:42and this should get resolved before Sam Houston.
25:48That's, we got, you know, three months, right?
25:51I'm confident that it will get resolved.
25:55I don't know if the governor, you know,
25:57cause the racing commission, the executive director,
26:01you know, kind of did what she needed to do
26:02and went to her boss in Austin.
26:04And, you know, she, I mean, she can't agree to this
26:07without the powers that be saying, all right, let's go.
26:11And so I think there was probably some miscommunications,
26:14probably some misunderstanding.
26:16And look, I'm not saying HISA is perfect.
26:19I think there's lots of things that, you know,
26:22worry me about it, but I think that everyone is willing
26:25to kind of work together and get this figured out.
26:28We definitely need some sort of national oversight.
26:30I think we can all agree with that.
26:32But I, like I said, I'm confident
26:35that it's gonna get figured out.
26:36I wouldn't have just, you know,
26:38and I think the sale yesterday, honestly,
26:40shows that everyone else is, the sale was up.
26:43We sold, you know, in Texas, you gotta breed
26:47every other year to Texas stallions.
26:48So we sold like some Braidsters,
26:51My Golden Songs, and Too Much Blings.
26:53And we only sold five and we did better
26:55than we did last year selling eight
26:57that were sired by Kentucky sires.
26:59Now, I think we honestly had better physicals this year,
27:04but, you know, the strength of the sale was off the charts.
27:07And so I think everyone kind of understands
27:10that this is gonna get taken care of.
27:12I know some pin hookers texted me and were asking me like,
27:14dude, do I even come to Texas?
27:15Like, I gotta make money.
27:17Like, I'm not gonna buy a Texas bread and pin hook it.
27:19If, you know, you guys aren't even running for,
27:21you know, if you're running for peanuts next year.
27:24And I just said, I told them exactly what I told you.
27:26I think it's gonna get sorted out.
27:28I'm confident it will.
27:30The end of the Lone Star meet,
27:32it was unfortunate what happened.
27:36And, you know, Lone Star was good enough.
27:38They still paid out all their purses.
27:40They had a little bit of an overpayment,
27:42but they'll make that up in simulcast.
27:43Cause we can still bet, you know,
27:46on Saratoga and that kind of stuff.
27:49But luckily there's no thoroughbred racing
27:50in Texas right now.
27:51So we're not losing out on sending out our signal right now.
27:55So that simulcast in is huge around here
27:59because we don't have ADWs and Lone Star Park
28:01is the only place to bet if in, you know,
28:05there's 9 million people in the DFW Metroplex.
28:07Like that's the only place you can bet.
28:08So their handle, you know,
28:10their simulcast handle is pretty big.
28:11And so they're confident they can make that money up.
28:14But again, I mean, it sucks.
28:17It really does.
28:17I love this place.
28:18I want to see racing be at Lone Star
28:20what it was in the, you know, late nineties
28:22and early two thousands.
28:23I mean, that was, you know,
28:25some of the best racing in the country.
28:26And so, I mean, we're dedicated to help it out.
28:29And my pops is on the board
28:30of the Texas Thoroughbred Association.
28:32So I know they're doing everything they can
28:35to make sure that, you know, this works out
28:37because yeah, obviously we can't.
28:39I mean, it's nice down here
28:40because if we have, if we buy a decent horse
28:42that can't cut it, you know, in New York, Kentucky, Florida
28:45we can bring them here and run for decent money.
28:48You know what I'm saying?
28:49And that way we don't have to just drop them up there
28:52and worry about getting them claimed or whatever.
28:54If they, you know, if they've got a pedigree
28:55or anything like that
28:57and we can still make it work down here.
29:00So.
29:00Yeah, that's the thing too
29:01is there was a lot of positive news in Texas racing
29:04with all the purse money and the escrow account
29:06and all that stuff that's been approved by the legislature.
29:09This would be such an own goal.
29:10I feel like this dragged on
29:12and it would, this doesn't hurt anybody but Texas racing.
29:15So yeah, like you said, hopefully they get that sorted out.
29:18Let's talk sports.
29:18You're a big Dallas sports fan.
29:20Go ahead.
29:21Tell me why this is the year
29:23the Cowboys stopped being a disappointment
29:25because I know as a Cowboys fan
29:26it's deep down in there somewhere.
29:29Oh God.
29:30It, no, it's not the year.
29:34Look man, I'm the realest Cowboys fan
29:37you will ever meet in your life.
29:38Like I understand the,
29:42a lot of Cowboys fans are completely clueless
29:45in every year, this year, this year.
29:48I mean, look, we just lost our best alignment.
29:50Like, I mean, he's out for a couple of months.
29:52Like I have,
29:55after years and years and years of disappointment
29:57I have finally kind of like tailored my expectations.
30:00Look, I love the Cowboys.
30:01I will watch every game, but I'm not,
30:04it's not gonna ruin my day anymore, man.
30:06I can't like, I'm getting too old.
30:08Like back in the day you lose a big game
30:10and it's like, yeah, your day is ruined.
30:13And it's like, I just can't,
30:14I've been disappointed so much by them.
30:17I've curtailed my expectations
30:19to where like they can't hurt me anymore.
30:21You know what I'm saying?
30:22Like I'm like a broken soul in a relationship.
30:24I've been dumped by so many girls I can't love again.
30:27You know, that kind of thing.
30:28And so, I mean, look, they,
30:32the offense obviously, I mean, we'll have the defense, man.
30:35The defense last year, I mean, look, we've got,
30:38I've been saying for years,
30:39let's work on that defense, secondary, please, come on.
30:41And now look, we've got a cornerback who's unbelievable.
30:44You know what I'm saying?
30:46So, I mean, but we lost all world.
30:49Yeah, yeah.
30:49I mean, we did lose some big names on that D line,
30:52but I think our division's pretty bad too.
30:55So I think, I mean, look,
30:58all you gotta do is make it to the playoffs, right?
31:00And then who knows?
31:02So, I mean, I think obviously
31:03we got a great shot to win the division,
31:05but after that, man, I don't know.
31:09It's just, it's so hard to have,
31:11and everyone wants to, you know,
31:14McCarthy will never be good enough for here,
31:15even though it's like, the guy's won a Superbowl,
31:17he knows what it takes.
31:18That was always our problem.
31:19Like, Jason Garrett had no clue what to do
31:22in tough situations like that, clutch situations.
31:25I actually have faith in McCarthy.
31:29He is not as predictable as Jason Garrett was.
31:32Like, literally, I would sit there and watch games
31:33and be like, I know what they're gonna do right here.
31:36Here's third and five and we're gonna run the ball.
31:39We're gonna be in the shotgun
31:40and we're gonna run a draw to Zeke on third and five.
31:43We're gonna get three yards and then punt, guaranteed.
31:45Sure enough, that's what would happen.
31:47I think that's what drives people crazy about McCarthy
31:50is like the timeout stuff.
31:52Because that's what people watch on TV
31:55and they're like, I could get that right.
31:57Forget the fact that they couldn't get
31:58the 50 other things he has to think about right.
32:00But the timeout stuff, the time management.
32:03That was inexcusable.
32:06I agree there.
32:06But I mean, the guy's been a head coach
32:08for how long, has that always been an issue?
32:09I'm not gonna lie, I didn't watch every Packers game
32:13when he was tearing it up there.
32:15But was that kind of just maybe a lapse in judgment?
32:21Now if he continues to do it, that's another thing.
32:23But I think, I don't know, man.
32:26That was a tough one to swallow.
32:28But again, I think his experience
32:31and all that makes up for it.
32:35I'm a Jet fan, so I got no place to talk.
32:38I'm able to make fun of people.
32:40I think, you know that Paul Anote's lyric on Rich Girl?
32:43He's like, it's so easy to hurt others
32:45when you can't feel pain.
32:46That's me.
32:47So I'll make fun of people because I can't feel pain
32:48anymore as a Jet fan.
32:50Well, I mean, dude, we were good in the 90s.
32:52And I just moved to Texas.
32:56I was always a Cowboys fan, obviously,
32:58because I lived in Oklahoma
32:59and everyone's Cowboys fans.
33:00But I didn't know what it meant to be a fan then.
33:03And so when I turned 18, 19, 20,
33:07and it's like that crazy fandom,
33:11we were dealing with Quincy Carter.
33:13And those, I mean, just brutal, absolutely terrible.
33:17And then Romo comes along and it's like,
33:19and look, I'm the biggest Romo defender you'll ever meet.
33:22Don't ever say anything bad about the guy.
33:23I loved him.
33:25The guy deserved so much more than he got.
33:27And because of an incompetent owner slash GM,
33:31he did not get what he deserved.
33:36That guy was good enough to win a Super Bowl.
33:39And in my eyes, if he had a team around him,
33:41he would become, he would be immediately
33:44in the conversation as an all-time great.
33:46You know what I'm saying?
33:46I mean, I felt so bad for that guy.
33:49He was so much fun to watch too.
33:51Well, it's so funny because like the,
33:53I used to hate the Cowboys because, you know,
33:55I grew up watching them be great in the mid 90s
33:57and they were the evil empire.
33:59And that lasted for a while.
34:00Now I think I've come all the way back around
34:02where I feel bad enough for the Cowboys
34:04that I want them to do well.
34:05I want them to make a deep run this year in the playoffs.
34:08And the NFC is up for grabs too,
34:10I think for the most part, other than the Rams.
34:12But the thing that makes them still hateable is Jerry.
34:15You know, he, it's just,
34:16it's nothing like when the Cowboys screw up something
34:19in a big way and then they cut to him in the owner's box
34:22and he's just like fuming.
34:24Like that is, hook it to my veins, you know?
34:26He, I know, and I can understand that too
34:29as someone who's not a Cowboys fan.
34:30Like he's, I've said it for years,
34:32like we are not going to be relevant
34:34until he removes himself.
34:36And I think he started doing that a little bit.
34:39Otherwise we would have drafted Johnny Manziel
34:42or whatever it was, you know, that year.
34:43Like he was apparently going up with the card
34:45and they were like, no!
34:47Yeah, like, so I think there's hope there,
34:50but he is an embarrassment, man.
34:52And I know he bought the team and did what he did early on.
34:56But like, at what point do you got to like,
34:59look at yourself and be like,
35:00look, we haven't been relevant, you know, in 30 years.
35:03Like it's time to step back and just look.
35:09The new stadium, I don't like going to games now.
35:11Like it's this, it's a joke.
35:14Like all the away fans, the tickets are so expensive.
35:17All the season ticket holders sell their tickets
35:18and just keep them for like certain games and playoffs.
35:22So the away fans mob this place
35:23because they're like, we got to see the new stadium.
35:25Like, it's like a, you know, it's a tourist event now.
35:28And so there's like, now there's 100,000 people there.
35:31So it's still loud, but it's not like the old stadium.
35:33You're just in this little toilet bowl.
35:36You know what I'm saying?
35:37Like just nasty, grimy.
35:39Real fans can afford to sit down in close to the field.
35:43Now all the real fans are up top in the 300s.
35:45And it's like, I mean, I've sat up there before
35:47for a college game, like, you know,
35:49I didn't care because I was in college
35:50and watching my team, but it's like, you know,
35:52everyone's that big and you have no idea what's,
35:54and you're watching this stupid giant screen.
35:57And it's just, it's not the same, man.
35:58Like artwork everywhere, marble floors, like, dude,
36:01give me like concrete and, you know,
36:03beer spilled everywhere and that kind of stuff.
36:05That's the same, you know,
36:06and I'm wearing the Mets jersey right now.
36:08The New York, we knocked down both stadiums
36:10around the same time.
36:11Citi Field is a big improvement on Shea Stadium.
36:14The new Yankee Stadium is not nearly as good
36:17as the old Yankee Stadium.
36:18It was for the same way.
36:19I think they tried to build like a monument
36:22and like a museum or some shit and not like a,
36:25not a stadium, not a ballpark, you know?
36:27Exactly.
36:29We just did it for the Rangers.
36:30We just built a new stadium.
36:32And dude, the ballpark in Arlington was like
36:34one of America's best ballparks, I feel like.
36:36Now it's 110 degrees in the summer, I get it.
36:39Like, no one wants to come play here.
36:40I understand, but they were like,
36:41well, it costs more to put a roof on
36:43than to build a new stadium.
36:44Look, I'm no engineer, but how the hell is it
36:47more expensive to put a roof on a stadium
36:49than to build a whole new one?
36:52But now we've got this beautiful cathedral
36:54that actually looked like a baseball sitting there,
36:56empty, just having concerts every once in a while
36:58in this stupid, you know, retractable roof,
37:02gaudy looking thing, right next to Jerry World, too,
37:05by the way, like right there, you know?
37:07And it's just like, I mean, give me the old
37:10metal bleachers of Arlington Stadium back in the day.
37:12Like, that's when I, we would drive down from Oklahoma
37:15to watch Nolan Ryan pitch, you know what I'm saying?
37:17In this nasty, bleachered stadium that looks like
37:19they could just take it down if they wanted to, you know?
37:22But then they built the ballpark, it was beautiful.
37:24And then it's now, I think they built it in like 95,
37:27and it's already done, and they just built,
37:29I haven't been to a game in the new stadium.
37:31That's, I mean, we saw it, but still, like, I won't go.
37:35That's so funny what you say about,
37:37how's the roof more expensive than the stadium?
37:38Like, I guess the roof comes free
37:40if you built a new stadium.
37:41Yeah, yeah, I know, but like, it just,
37:43it makes no sense to me, and again,
37:45I'm not an engineer, an architect,
37:46but man, like, I don't know.
37:48So yeah, I mean, but I'm one of those people,
37:50if you see me at the track, I'm down in the apron.
37:52I'm not, I'm not, like, we ran at Saratoga
37:55when I was there, Whitney Day.
37:57Dude, I wasn't wearing a coat.
37:58I wasn't going in the clubhouse.
37:59Like, I was in, you know what I'm saying?
38:01Like, I'd rather be there with, you know,
38:04all my buddies betting, and, you know,
38:06under the paddock bar or wherever,
38:08and rather be there than a box, like, stuffy in.
38:10How fun is the paddock bar, by the way?
38:12The new paddock bar was so much fun.
38:14It was actually really cool.
38:15I mean, you know, the tent back in the day is what it is,
38:18but, like, that paddock bar was pretty nice.
38:20I didn't go upstairs.
38:21I mean, I'm not paying that.
38:22No, no, no, no.
38:23You can just lean out over the rail
38:24and see the horses come by.
38:26Oh, I was there all day, like, right over the rail,
38:28just watching, and I could look at these horses
38:30and see which ones look good and stuff.
38:32And no, it was, it was a lot of fun.
38:35I really dig that.
38:36I don't know what's going on with it now.
38:37There's rumors about some, like, structural problems
38:40or something I'm hearing.
38:41Yeah, so I don't know, but I don't, you know,
38:44and I didn't see any horses get spooked by it, so.
38:46Yeah.
38:47Because I know a lot of people were complaining
38:49when they debuted it.
38:49They're like, oh, this is not a good idea.
38:52People in racing just love to complain.
38:54That's an eternal, eternal truism in the sport.
38:57They just like to complain, especially on Twitter.
38:59But I'm with you, like, the new Meadowlands,
39:01like, it's so much more fun to tailgate
39:04and pregame outside than it is to go into that stadium.
39:07It's hideous.
39:08Yeah.
39:10I want to ask you real quick about the Mavs,
39:12because I want to get to our hip hop conversation.
39:15Are you a Mavs fan, first of all?
39:17I am a, that's, like, my team,
39:20we were season ticket holders
39:21for years and years and years.
39:23And then when kind of all the crazy stuff started going on
39:26right before Luka with the sexual harassment stuff
39:29and all that, remember that?
39:30We were like, we're done.
39:32We're not, I mean, cause dude, they won the championship
39:35and then the team blows up and it's like,
39:37what are we doing?
39:38You know what I'm saying?
39:39Like, and we canceled our season tickets
39:42and then Luka comes along and it's like,
39:44damn it, we might have to buy it back again.
39:46Yeah, no, okay.
39:47So let's talk about it.
39:48Cause they had a great year.
39:49They went to the Western Conference Finals.
39:50I loved, loved seeing them kick the teeth in
39:53of Chris Paul and the Suns.
39:55That made me so happy.
39:57But so now they lost Jalen Brunson.
39:59They had to pay Luka, this like semi-max deal.
40:02What's your overall feeling on the near future of the Mavs?
40:06So obviously we got JaVale McGee.
40:09I think some rim protection was much needed.
40:13And then I'm losing my mom.
40:14What's the guy that we got from Houston?
40:17The, the Charles Ford Slasher Center.
40:18Yes, thank you.
40:19Oh, it's a Christian one?
40:20I think, yeah, I think he will be,
40:23I think he'll be a big piece of this.
40:26I love Jalen Brunson, obviously, like we, you know,
40:28he was, no one had any hope for him really.
40:31I mean, you know, I know his accolades
40:33in college were unbelievable,
40:34but everyone said,
40:35that's not going to translate to the NBA, right?
40:36And so I'm happy for him getting paid.
40:40I'm not like gutted that we lost him.
40:44I think, you know,
40:45we're going to have Tim Hardaway Jr. back now,
40:48which, you know, he is what he is.
40:50We all know that.
40:51We didn't have him last year.
40:54I think I'm, I'm, I mean, I'm pretty pumped.
40:57I really am.
40:58And I'm, and I'm usually a pessimist
41:00when it comes to a lot of this kind of stuff,
41:02to be honest with you.
41:03Dim Witte was a huge surprise last year.
41:05We get him, I'm like, wait, well, first off,
41:08I mean, KP, like, you got to go, dude.
41:10Like, you know what I'm saying?
41:11We were paying him way too much money, I'm glad.
41:13But it was like, what did we get back for him?
41:15You know?
41:16And I'm like, Dim Witte, really?
41:18Because I hear all these problems in the locker room
41:20and all that, this and that.
41:21And like, he was huge, man.
41:23I liked him a lot.
41:25You know, JaVale McGee is not the JaVale McGee he used to be,
41:28but the guy is still pretty useful.
41:31You know, he still plays with an edge.
41:33He's got a chip on his shoulder.
41:34You know, he'll, he'll be kind of some,
41:36because we've always kind of been a soft team.
41:38You know what I'm saying?
41:39Even through the dark days,
41:41Deshaun Stevenson was like the key
41:43to winning that championship.
41:45Someone that would punch you right back in your mouth
41:48when you came, you know what I'm saying?
41:49And I think we're kind of getting that back.
41:52We're, now it's tough when you go
41:55to the Western Conference Finals,
41:56you know what I'm saying?
41:57And then there's a lot to live up to.
42:02But the way, I'll be honest, man,
42:04the way we handled the Suns,
42:05I was, I wasn't really surprised.
42:07I kind of saw that with the matchup with, you know,
42:11I actually, I don't know if you remember this,
42:13but it was two game sevens, the Suns and the Stars.
42:16Back to like back-to-back games, right?
42:19Matt, I, buddies and I put in a parlay,
42:22Mavs to win straight up, Stars to win straight up.
42:25And it was to make some decent money.
42:26And I was feeling like really confident
42:28about that game actually.
42:29Now, did I ever think we'd be up like 40 at halftime?
42:32No way.
42:33That's crazy.
42:34So, and then like, then the Stars,
42:36who also completely overachieved,
42:38like that Stars team was terrible last year.
42:40Like we snuck into the playoffs two,
42:42two or three games before the end of the season.
42:44You know what I mean?
42:44It was back and forth.
42:46And so, you know, Calgary, who was, you know,
42:49one of the best teams in the West.
42:52Anyways, that game goes to overtime.
42:53My buddies don't bet much, you know,
42:55we're like sitting there like, oh my God,
42:56we got a legit shot to make some money here.
42:59And then Stars losing overtime.
43:01But, but no, I, back to the Mavs,
43:04I really wasn't that surprised in that.
43:06Now I knew we had no shot versus the, versus Golden State.
43:10Like, I mean, I, that was just a tough one.
43:13You can't, that team so good
43:15and they're not even what they used to be.
43:16And they're still, you know what I'm saying?
43:18I mean, when we knocked out the Suns,
43:19that kind of gave, opened the door for them.
43:21I think the Suns were probably the only team
43:23that matched up, you know,
43:24and probably could have beaten them if they wanted to.
43:26But, but yeah.
43:28Yeah. I mean, that was, I remember that, that night too,
43:30because that was the Rangers-Penguins game seven.
43:33And I get over to my boy's house to watch the third period
43:35and he goes, the Mavs were up 40.
43:38Mavs are up 40 points?
43:40I gotta check this out.
43:41I mean, that was, that was a lot, a lot of schadenfreude
43:45because the Suns were such a hateable team to me.
43:47You know?
43:48Absolutely.
43:49Like in the, in the way they acted in their wins,
43:53like you would have thought
43:55that they were just going to sweep us.
43:56Like they were just so cocky.
43:58And it was like,
43:59you guys better slow down just a little bit.
44:00You know what I'm saying?
44:01Like I, and Luca just, I mean, people will try to dog him.
44:06I don't know how you can, man.
44:08That kid is something special.
44:09It, he, I, look, I hate him complaining.
44:12He needs to shut his mouth and just earn his stripes
44:14and then he can complain.
44:16You know what I'm saying?
44:17But like, he's complaining.
44:18Like he's like, Dirk, you know, 15th year in the league.
44:21Like he, you gotta earn those.
44:23It's a European thing.
44:24I think it's a mainly European thing.
44:26And I loved his quote though.
44:28Like everybody, everybody talks tough when they're up.
44:30And that was like one of those great quotes,
44:32like, you know, portending quotes
44:34that then they come out and beat them
44:35in game six and game seven.
44:37All right, let's do this before we get out of here.
44:40I promised you we'd do this
44:41because apparently Barry Spears and now me
44:43are the only other hip hop heads, you know, in racing,
44:46which doesn't sound farfetched by the way.
44:48It's definitely believable.
44:49Yeah.
44:50So let's, let's, and this is where 80% of racing
44:52is going to click off right now.
44:53But anyway, top five rappers all time,
44:57dead or alive, who you got?
45:00Man, I don't know.
45:02I know, I know we got to go, but I'm, I'm such,
45:04like I grew up on, you know, dirty South stuff,
45:06but now I was living in a bubble.
45:08And then I, when I went out to Arizona,
45:09I had good friends from the East coast and West coast.
45:11And so that's when I kind of really early 2000s
45:13got enlightened.
45:15And I really liked the groups and collabs.
45:18Like I can't really sit here.
45:19Like, like obviously Jay-Z, Nas, like, yes.
45:22And I love that music, right?
45:24I mean, one, two, gotta be.
45:26And then you go kind of Tupac, Biggie.
45:28I personally do, but, but I, I just love like messages
45:34and, and like Blackstar, Talib Kweli Mostaf,
45:37like that really, that album like shaped me,
45:41the Reflection Eternal album with Kweli,
45:43like, and, and, and really got me loving like hip hop
45:46that you, you got to think about,
45:48you know what I'm saying?
45:49And, and through that, you know,
45:51that's when I heard about Kanye,
45:53cause he was producing and Kanye's first two albums
45:56were like some of the greatest things ever.
45:58But now he's just absolutely terrible.
46:00And I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone, but like, I, I still,
46:03he's so bad, but I mean that, that, you know,
46:06so that early 2000s era, real late nineties,
46:10I mean, MF Doom, like Rest In Peace,
46:12like I can't really name just a top five,
46:15but like, so I kinda, I break it out into, you know,
46:19regions and that kind of stuff.
46:20But I, I like a lot of like West Coast,
46:22like hieroglyphics and living legends.
46:25And then, you know, even the Midwest atmosphere,
46:28POS, like just, but I don't know, man,
46:31I can't just go, here's my five, four, three, two, one.
46:35It's, it's, it's real tough because I can tell you like,
46:38hey, this album definitely, you know, like, all right,
46:41best album, I'll go album, how's that?
46:43So Reflection Eternal probably is my favorite album
46:45of all time, quality and DJ high tech.
46:49And then probably like Reasonable Doubt,
46:51like Reasonable Doubt was just front,
46:54like they don't make front to back like that anymore.
46:58And then probably go Black Star,
47:00which I actually named the Constitution Philly redefinition
47:03out of, from one of those songs.
47:07And then probably like, oh man, Kanye's first album.
47:13And then maybe, you know, 36 Chambers, something like that.
47:19You're all over the place.
47:21No, listen, I'm with you and I'm so glad you brought up
47:23Talib and Mos Def, because Talib actually,
47:25I didn't go with him, but he went to my high school
47:27in Brooklyn, Brooklyn.
47:28Yeah, and, and Mos is a guy who's from Fort Greene,
47:32which I spent a lot of time in.
47:33So I'm a huge, huge Black Star guy.
47:35And I love that album, Reflection Eternal.
47:37I agree with, that was like,
47:38that was like one of the first CDs I bought,
47:40like the actual physical CD, rap CD that I bought.
47:43So that's up there too.
47:44Like you said, College Dropout,
47:46one of the most important albums of my life.
47:48I don't know if you've seen the Kanye documentary,
47:50but it's like-
47:51I haven't watched it yet.
47:52You should watch it, or at least the first part,
47:54like the end is like depressing,
47:55because it's like Kanye as he is now.
47:57Yeah.
47:58But the part is basically like a shot for shot retelling
48:01of him making College Dropout,
48:03which is incredible to watch.
48:04And he's going into these studios
48:06and into these record company buildings
48:08and like dying for people to take him seriously.
48:11And it's just so fun to watch in retrospect.
48:13And they just, they're blowing him off.
48:15It's, it's absolutely perfect.
48:17Reasonable Doubt, like you said, Blueprint too.
48:19Blueprint-
48:20Yeah, I totally missed that one.
48:21It was out on September 11th.
48:23And it was like, it was banging for months after that one.
48:26Nothing was really going on.
48:28There were, you know,
48:29there was nothing, no clubs open or any of that stuff.
48:30So that's up there too.
48:32For me, I was a big 50 guy.
48:34So Get Rich or Die Tryin' is definitely up there.
48:37Definitely top five albums for me,
48:39because I had been a 50 fan for a while,
48:41unless his mixtape stuff.
48:43And once he finally got signed to a major label
48:46and put that album out,
48:48I knew he was going to have a ton of heat.
48:50And he did.
48:51Yeah, being from the city,
48:52you know about these guys before they come up, right?
48:55Like all I heard from 50 was, yeah, some Eminem stuff.
48:59And then, well, and we didn't even talk about him
49:01because his first two albums like shaped my high school.
49:04But 50, like, you know,
49:06all I think of him is in the club and you know that,
49:08I mean, you know, the guy's got talent,
49:10but he just wasn't, being from where I'm from,
49:12it's a little different.
49:13You know what I'm saying?
49:14No, for me, I had bought his mixtapes forever
49:18until he got signed, it felt like.
49:19Sure.
49:20You know?
49:21Sure, and that's how like we were down here
49:22with like Chameleon Air and Lil Flip
49:24and that kind of stuff, you know?
49:26But then you kind of, once you mature and grow up,
49:28you're like, man, I don't really want to just listen to,
49:31you know, these guys talking about like big rims
49:33on their cars and sipping lean and that kind of stuff.
49:35Like I want some intellectual stuff to make me.
49:37What's so great about Kanye too, to me,
49:39it's like he made,
49:41because hip hop has so much bravado,
49:43like necessary bravado,
49:45but also over the top where everybody has to fit this mold
49:49of this like alpha male, gun shooting, drug selling pimp,
49:53you know?
49:53Kanye broke that mold.
49:55He said, I'm a thoughtful guy, I'm insecure,
49:57but I love music and this is what I'm saying.
49:59You know, that was so huge.
50:02And he was just producing at the time.
50:04Like I've got the poster for Quali's Quality
50:08and it's like, it's Pharaoh Monch and so-and-so.
50:11And then at the very bottom of the small,
50:13it says Kanye West.
50:14Like I got it on my wall, actually.
50:16You know what I'm saying?
50:17It's like, man, just,
50:18and then, you know,
50:19he obviously the blueprint did a bunch on that,
50:21but yeah, I mean, I don't know.
50:23Now I just, I don't listen to anything new at all.
50:25It's sad.
50:27I mean, even some of these guys put out stuff
50:29and I'm like, I can't listen to this.
50:30What about like the big guys,
50:32the big new-ish guys like Drake and Kendrick and J. Cole?
50:35I can't do it, man.
50:36I can't.
50:39So I feel like a lot,
50:41and it kind of started with Lil Wayne.
50:43Like, and look, I used to,
50:44I was listening to Lil Wayne when he was 15 or whatever,
50:46you know, on mixtapes and stuff down here.
50:49Like the Master P, you know, bringing him up and all that.
50:51And like, then he just starts mumbling and making up words.
50:55And I mean, it was all right,
50:56but it was just, it was like he was trying too hard
50:59or maybe he wasn't trying enough.
51:01I don't really know, but it, I, it was tough.
51:04And Drake, I mean, I see him start off on a Disney TV show.
51:09Now he wants to act gangster.
51:10Like, you know, and like, I'm, it's just, it's,
51:14I don't know, like literally the new stuff,
51:16like I can, I can get into some Migos here.
51:21Okay, CJ, I could talk to you all day and all night,
51:24but I think God is interrupting us
51:26for our bad hip hop opinions
51:28and has kicked you off a couple of times.
51:29So we got to wrap this up,
51:30but thank you so much for the time.
51:32And I, you know, I said this before,
51:34but I really have such respect for you
51:36and what you did at Kentucky Downs
51:37and your place in the industry.
51:39It's been great to talk to you, my man.
51:41I really appreciate it.
51:43Yeah, the, you know,
51:45I think you guys have done a great job with the TDN.
51:47Look, my dad, you know, he's, he's, you know,
51:51upper sixties and he doesn't really listen
51:53to podcasts and stuff, but he started getting into them.
51:55And literally all the time, he's like,
51:57have you listened to the writer's room yet this week?
51:59Have you listened to the writer's room?
52:00And I'm like, how are you listening
52:01to this stuff before I am?
52:03So big fan of yours, what you're doing at the TDN as well.
52:06And I, and I appreciate you having me on anytime
52:08you want to talk, you know, horses, hip hop, let's go.
52:11Absolutely, man.
52:12Let's keep in touch.
52:13Appreciate the time.
52:14All right, buddy.
52:15All right.
52:18Welcome back to my Breeders' Cup sponsored
52:20handicapping segment here on Better Things with Joe Bianca.
52:23We've done two of these so far.
52:24First one couldn't have gone much better.
52:26I picked the winner of the Haskell Cyberknife
52:28at almost eight to one, made about $558 profit.
52:32Unfortunately, last time for the Whitney,
52:34my horse scratched American Revolution,
52:36scratched the day of the race.
52:38So we had no action in there.
52:39So why not just go a little bit harder this time around?
52:42This Saturday, we have two televised Breeders' Cup
52:45challenge qualifiers, Saturday, September 3rd
52:48on NBC and Peacock from 4.30 to six o'clock.
52:51You can watch the Jackie Club Gold Cup
52:53and the Flower Bowl stakes from Saratoga.
52:56The Jackie Club Gold Cup is of course a qualifier
52:58for the $6 million Breeders' Cup Classic,
53:01the richest race in North America.
53:03And the Flower Bowl is a qualifier for the grade one
53:06Philly and, Breeders' Cup Philly and Meriturf,
53:08which is a $2 million race.
53:10Let's start with the Jackie Club Gold Cup.
53:12Todd Pletcher has four of the eight horses,
53:14one of which I got burned by last time
53:17with this late scratch of American Revolution.
53:19And unfortunately, he'll probably be half the price Saturday
53:22than he would have been in the Whitney,
53:23probably close to five to two second choice
53:25behind Olympiad at seven to five or eight to five.
53:28So my strategy within the race is to try to beat Olympiad
53:31in the first two slots.
53:32So I'm going to use five, American Revolution,
53:35six, First Captain and eight, Dynamic One
53:38as the three horses who I think will be best
53:40at a mile and a quarter,
53:41which is the Jackie Club Gold Cup distance.
53:43Been run at Belmont historically.
53:45Breaks my heart a little bit as a kid who grew up
53:46going to Belmont to see it at Saratoga,
53:48but it's obviously still a terrific grade one race.
53:51Olympiad's the horse to beat,
53:52and I think he might get his typical perfect
53:55outside stalking trip.
53:56He drew the two posts, speedy taxes to his inside,
54:00but he simply was not good in the Whitney
54:02and did not have a visible excuse.
54:04And I think it's honestly just foolish in general
54:07to just assume horses are going to bounce back
54:09to their top race when they're short prices,
54:12especially like Olympiad when they're trying something new
54:14for the first time.
54:15He's going 10 furlongs for the first time.
54:17So Dynamic One and First Captain were a nose apart
54:20in the mile and a quarter suburban stakes at Belmont.
54:23The race only got a 98 fire, but watching the replay
54:26and looking at the race's internal fractions,
54:28you'll see how big each of them ran.
54:29They both got stuck behind a slow pace
54:32and had to move early and wide.
54:34And they came home in 23.78,
54:36which is a very, very strong final split
54:39for a 10 furlong race.
54:40Overall, they got their last six furlongs
54:42in a 1.11 and change.
54:44Not an easy thing to do considering the distance
54:47and considering their ground loss
54:48and their pace disadvantage.
54:50And that's not a fluke.
54:51Before the suburban, Dynamic One came home in 36.03
54:54despite a wide run in the blame stakes.
54:57First Captain came home in well under 18 seconds
54:59for his final 3.16 in the Pimlico Special,
55:02again with a wide trip.
55:04So if either of those two can save ground Saturday
55:07and get at least a modestly competitive pace up front,
55:09I think they'll be finishing fastest of all
55:11in a tiring Saratoga stretch.
55:13So the play in the Jockey Club Gold Cup
55:15is a $20 Xacta box, 5.68 for a total of $120.
55:20The Grade Two Flower Ball,
55:21which is also heartbreaking to me
55:23because historically it's been a Grade One race
55:25and a real marquee race for Philly and Merritt Turfers.
55:28It's been downgraded to a Grade Two this year,
55:30but it is, like I said, a winning year end qualifier
55:32for the Breeders' Cup Philly and Merritt Turf.
55:34It's a less interesting betting race
55:36because there's a huge heavy favorite
55:37that I have no interest in trying to beat
55:39in Warlike Goddess.
55:41She is clearly the leader of this division.
55:43She was a close third in the Breeders' Cup
55:45Philly and Merritt Turf last year.
55:46She won the Flower Ball last year.
55:48She's just a win machine.
55:49She's back to defend her title instead of trying males
55:53and a Grade One in the Sword Dancer last week.
55:55And she has just simply proven she's better
55:57than these Phillies and Merritts over and over again.
55:59And other than two Chad Brown horses
56:01who are gonna be overbet because it's Chad,
56:03there really are no new shooters to speak of
56:06to get excited about.
56:07So instead of playing within the race,
56:09I'm gonna single number four, Warlike Goddess,
56:11who's just a machine in the pick five.
56:13And there's some good-sized fields in the sequence,
56:1615% takeout, reliable-looking single.
56:20That's what I look for when I wanna play pick fives
56:22and multi-race bets.
56:23That clearly is the move for me.
56:26So here's what the ticket looks like.
56:27The first leg is the ninth race.
56:29I'm gonna spread in here.
56:30It's a Turf Allowance Optional Claimer
56:32with a lot of potential winners, I think.
56:34I'm gonna use the two, three, four, seven, nine, and 10.
56:38The second leg is the Flower Bowl,
56:40singling number four, Warlike Goddess.
56:42The third leg is the Jockey Club Gold Cup.
56:45I'm gonna use Olympiad,
56:46even though I'm trying to beat him within the race.
56:48I'm not gonna get knocked out of the pick five
56:50when a seven to five or eight to five horse wins.
56:52It just doesn't make any sense.
56:53So I'm gonna use two Olympiad, five American Revolution,
56:56six First Captain, and Dynamic One.
56:58In the 12th race, I'm gonna spread as well.
57:01I'm gonna use three, four, five, six, seven, eight, and 10.
57:05And then the fifth leg, which is the 13th race,
57:08which is a Turf Sprint.
57:10I'm only gonna go too deep.
57:11I'm gonna use number eight, Eyes of Malibu Moon,
57:13and number 11, Quick Power Nap.
57:14So we'll put this up on the screen.
57:16It's a total of $168 on the ticket.
57:19Two, three, four, seven, nine, 10,
57:21with four, with two, five, six, eight,
57:24with three, four, five, six, seven, eight, 10,
57:26with eight, 11, total of 168.
57:29Several chances for prices in there to really make this pay.
57:32And like I said, a single I trust.
57:34That's the ideal sequence.
57:35A single you feel like you can rely on,
57:37and then some races surrounding it
57:39where you feel like there might be a little bit of chaos,
57:41and you can maybe get a double digit horse to pop in there.
57:43And like I said, with the takeout at 15%,
57:46you really only need one of those horses to make it pay.
57:49So in total, we're investing $288
57:52of our $558.45 profit from the Haskell.
57:56So no matter what happens,
57:57we'll still be playing with house money next week,
57:59but hopefully we can build on the profit
58:01and keep this thing rolling as we reach the halfway point
58:04of our six episode Breeders' Cup partnership
58:07and get closer and closer,
58:09just over two months away now
58:10from the Breeders' Cup World Championships,
58:12November 4th and 5th at Keeneland.
58:15Good luck if you're following along.
58:18Okay, so that's gonna do it for this week's edition
58:20of Better Things with Joe Bianca.
58:22Had a lot of fun talking to CJ Johnson,
58:24and definitely check out that Kentucky Downs meet.
58:27Used to be an afterthought, like I said,
58:28of Saratoga and Delmar,
58:29but if you want big fields, low takeout,
58:32you love turf racing,
58:33you definitely have to get involved,
58:34and CJ was such a big part of that meet
58:37becoming what it is.
58:38So thank you to CJ for joining us.
58:39Thank you to the Breeders' Cup for the sponsorship.
58:41Hopefully we can make you a little bit of money
58:43this Saturday in the Jockey Club Gold Cup and the Flower Bowl.
58:46Thank you to my producer, Patty Wolf, as well,
58:48and our editors, Anthony LaRocca, Aliyah LaRocca,
58:50and Nathan Wilkinson.
58:51Thank you so much for watching.
58:54We'll be back next week
58:55for another Breeders' Cup Challenge Handicapping segment
58:57and another fascinating guest.
58:59Thanks for watching.