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00:00Dibs? Yeah. It's that time? What time? It's that time. Not the that time? Your favorite time.
00:07It is my favorite time. It's when I get nervous. Do you? Butterflies come out. We mentioned this
00:14once before on the River Islands Guest Line. It's the executive producer of NFL Films and
00:19our weekly friend and one of our favorites, Greg Cosell. Do you know that, Greg, that you make
00:23dibs nervous? Well, now I do. Now that you've mentioned it. Yeah. All you have to do is look
00:29at the tape from these interviews and you can see. Thank you, Greg. I thought you'd like that.
00:35I'm not nervous. I'm just going to make it up as we go. Okay, great. That's what I do every day.
00:41Yeah, let's rock. You know what? This is not where I was going to start, but I just saw it
00:45and I wanted to run it by you and see what you thought. This is a quote that the athletic just
00:52put out from an unnamed Super Bowl winning executive. Okay. An unnamed Super Bowl winning
01:00executive talking about Kyle Shanahan, who has taken his fair share of criticism this year after
01:07a six and 11 season. He said, quote, within the coaches in the league, no one thinks any less
01:14of Kyle Shanahan. It's ludicrous to think they should get rid of him. Andy Reed had the same
01:20criticisms early in his career, and now he's clearly in the conversation for best ever.
01:25Kyle Shanahan's criticisms are that he's lost a couple of Super Bowls. Do you know how hard it is
01:33to get to the Super Bowl? If you throw rocks at Kyle Shanahan and want him fired, he's going to
01:37have a job in 30 seconds. What's your reaction to that quote? I agree a thousand percent.
01:44Yeah, I don't I don't see to me that it's not even a question. Like, I don't even think
01:49that would be. And based on on the specific nature of that quote, I'm sure you were reading
01:53it word for word, correct? Yep. Word for word. Basically, if you just take the tone of the quote,
01:58the guy is saying that anybody who thinks otherwise really knows nothing about football.
02:03That's the tone of the quote. And I would agree with that a thousand percent.
02:07When you look at what we saw from the tape this year, forget Kyle Shanahan for just a moment,
02:12but defensively, now that they're looking for a new coordinator, is it a scheme thing that you
02:17saw on tape or was it more just execution defensively that allowed them to struggle
02:22at times, especially in fourth quarters? Well, I would answer that. And I may have
02:28discussed that when you were not on, you know, toward the end of the year for those two weeks.
02:33I think that becomes a philosophy thing. And there's no right answer other than if you don't
02:38believe something is working, you might want to make a change, because clearly this year they
02:43chose to be a team that hardly ever pressured quarterbacks. They were a very low percentage
02:49blitz team. Now, again, we've seen in the past Fred Warner be a really, really good blitzer,
02:54adding in as the fifth pass rusher. We've seen that. I remember doing pieces for years in the
02:59matchup show where we showed five man pressures and Warner was part of the pressures and they
03:04were successful. This year, they were a very low percentage pressure team by NFL standards.
03:10So they relied pretty much exclusively on their four man D line pass rush and they relied on
03:15coverage with seven in coverage. You can make the argument that, hey, that didn't work as well as
03:21they had hoped. I'm sure that's one reason that Sorenson is no longer the D coordinator. So now
03:26it comes down to philosophy, because you can be good any number of ways. You just have to decide
03:32what you think is the best way to play with your personnel. And they obviously believe that what
03:36since what happened this year didn't quite work out the way they hoped that there's going to be a
03:41change. Greg, I think a lot of people have been I know I have been looking forward to talking to
03:47you after round one of the playoffs and three specific quarterback performances that people
03:54thought were below par to ask what you saw. Let's let's start with Justin Herbert. And I know that
04:02at least one, probably two, maybe even three of the interceptions weren't really on him. Or maybe
04:08I'm wrong. What What did you see with his performance? And what was it out of character?
04:13Well, and I would say that number one, their old line got manhandled in the game, and he was under
04:18significant arrest throughout the game. Number two, which probably should be number one,
04:24they couldn't run the ball at all. And they're a team with Greg Roman as the OC and you guys
04:29are familiar with Greg Roman, because he was there with Harbaugh. I think he was the OC when
04:34they went to the Super Bowl, if I'm not mistaken. Back in you know, the one in New Orleans, I believe
04:39where the game was paused. Do whatever you remember that. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, the point
04:48is, is there a run first football team in the way they play offense. And you know that in any number
04:54of ways, not only by their run pass ratio, but by the fact that they use a converted D end as a full
04:59back, so they couldn't run the ball at all. So their whole offensive identity changed pretty
05:05quickly in that game. And their old line was overmatched, which probably surprised many,
05:10because they have the left tackle Slater, who's a good player, the rookie right tackle all two at a
05:14solid year. But both those guys struggled all game as did the interior of their of their old line.
05:20So Herbert was under duress much of the game. So yes, did did he play his best game? No. You know,
05:26it's funny, you guys didn't do this. But obviously, you know, I'm aware of what people say,
05:31you know, I don't spend a ton of time listening to everybody. But I love the way people evaluate
05:36quarterbacks based on these games, as if you know what, let's just get rid of him and move on and
05:41get someone else. I mean, it's just it's just ridiculous. It's as if there's they think there's
05:48a quarterback store, and you just go get another quarterback. Well, sure. No. And Herbert and
05:53Jordan love. I mean, look, they're signed up. They've had good years. They're talented. There
05:59is an interesting conversation, I think around Sam Darnold, not because he didn't have a good
06:05year. Suddenly he did. But because we know who he was prior to this year, because he's a free agent,
06:11not signed up, that that one maybe is a little bit different. In my opinion, what do you think
06:17of what you saw him do on Monday night? Here's what I would say. I would say in the Lions game
06:22two weeks ago that he missed far too many throws that we've seen him make all year. He just missed
06:28them. OK, but I would say in this game this past week, he had no chance. He was under ridiculous
06:37duress the entire game. I spoke last week on a number of things I did that I thought that the key
06:43matchup in that game was going to be the Rams defensive front versus the Vikings O-line,
06:50which is not very good in pass protection. And I thought that was going to be the deciding factor
06:54in the game. And it was. So this game, to me, was not on Sam Darnold. You know, obviously,
07:00he threw a pick that was and by the way, his arm was hit. He couldn't follow through on that. So
07:05that wasn't even his fault. But so I didn't view this game watching the tape is, oh, my God,
07:10boy, Sam Darnold was bad. The week before, he missed a number of throws this game. They were
07:15just so significantly overmatched up front that it's it just I think there's probably four
07:22quarterbacks in the league that could have played really well in this game. And we know which four
07:25those those are. So. So this wasn't to me a Sam Darnold game, but but, you know, that's the
07:32perception and that's what I'm hearing all week. Oh, well, this is Sam Darnold's back being Sam
07:36Darnold, you know, and those kinds of comments to me just the when you say something like that.
07:42And I hope you guys aren't the ones who are saying that, because to me, when I hear that,
07:47I just think, you know, these guys, they just don't know football and they're just saying stuff.
07:52It's like the guys who make these bold declarations Monday morning at 8 a.m. on the East Coast,
07:57of course, you know, and as all they've done is watch the game on TV. You know, you can't tell
08:02watching the game on TV what really happened. Yeah, you got to watch the film, Greg, like you
08:06and I and, you know, get really deep into the all 22 taking that thought forward with the Ram
08:12defensive line. And Mark and I were talking before the show about how good this Ram defense
08:17has been over the last month. What do you see on tape from the Rams defense that can maybe
08:22not stop Saquon and Jalen in Philadelphia, but maybe slow them a little bit and make it
08:27uncomfortable? Now, this is a little different animal, OK, because the Eagles have a great D
08:31line and the strength of the great O line, excuse me, and the strength of the Rams D
08:36line is really their pass rush. OK, it's it's young. It's verse. Verse may be the best speed
08:42to power rusher in the league as a rookie. And then they have Fisk and Turner inside.
08:47That's their sort of NASCAR pass rush D line. That's not the D line that plays when they're
08:53in their base defense. Then they try to put bigger people in who can stop the run because
08:58both Fisk and Turner are probably under 300 or right around 300. They're not big guys relative
09:05to normal D tackles in the league. So this particular matchup is a totally different
09:10animal than the one from last week. So it's it's going to be very interesting to see what the
09:16Eagles do, how they choose to run the ball. Do they choose to run the ball with two tight ends
09:21and see if the Rams play their base D or will they choose to run the ball out of 11 personnel,
09:27meaning three wide receivers on the field? And maybe they get the Rams pass rush unit on the
09:31field, but it's a lighter group and not as strong against the run. So, yeah, this game
09:36is nothing like matchup wise, like the Rams D line against the Vikings O-line.
09:41Greg Cosell, NFL Films with us every single week throughout the season on Willard and Dibbs. Greg,
09:47I was with you last week. I am a big fan of the Broncos defense, and I was surprised
09:53at how easily or how well the Bills controlled the line of scrimmage in that football game. And
09:59it has me pretty high on the on the Bills going forward. But what what what was your take on the
10:06way that one played out? And what does it mean for the Bills going forward? Yeah, that was a
10:10surprise, I think, because I think that the D line for the Broncos had played well all year.
10:16Their defense had played well all year. But the Bills clearly felt, based on their film study,
10:23that they could come out and run the ball. They could line up with six O-line personnel,
10:27which they've done more than any team in the league by a wide, wide margin. And they did
10:33that in this game. And they ran on first down. You know, Cook had 13 for 78 in the first half.
10:39Nine of those 13 runs came on first down. So their game plan was clearly to run the ball,
10:45whether the Broncos were in their base defense or their nickel defense. They played 10 snaps with
10:50six O-linemen in the first half. Eight of those were runs. They clearly believed in their game
10:55planning, film study, everything that goes into that process, that they could line up and physically
11:01beat that Broncos defensive front. And they did. And I think that surprised a lot of people. Now,
11:08having said that, looking forward, that Ravens defensive front is big. That is one of the biggest
11:14defensive fronts in the league. And it's tough to move them. So I'm going to be very intrigued
11:19to see if the Bills take the same approach. The other factor in this game is they were playing
11:27a Broncos offense that they probably felt was not going to put up 30 points. So they probably felt
11:32that they could be patient. They could play the kind of game that they did and just kind of
11:36gradually pull away and win fairly handily. But it took the second half for that to happen.
11:42Will they feel, what kind of game will they feel this one will be? In other words, will
11:47they feel that they have to score more points early and make it more of a Josh Allen game?
11:52And I think that's one of the most intriguing elements of this game. And how does the Buffalo
11:57run defense stack up against the number one rush offense in football in the Baltimore Ravens?
12:02Well, that's going to be a tough deal. They're a really difficult offense to play against.
12:08The run game is really hard because of both Lamar and Derrick Henry. The past game, Lamar has been
12:15phenomenal this year. So they're a really hard offense to play against. I think that the Bill's
12:23secondary is probably not a great secondary overall. Now, Sean McDermott's been doing this
12:30a long time. And someone who's a lot smarter than I am, Bill Belichick, I heard him talk about
12:35Sean McDermott and how he does little things, little wrinkles that can be difficult for
12:41offenses. Things that, unless you really know, he knows more than I do, obviously.
12:48I think that stuff's going to have to happen in this game for them to have a chance. And their
12:52D-line is going to have to play great. Their D-line is going to have to really play at a super high
12:57level because that run game, it's hard in multiple ways. It's hard physically, and it's also hard
13:04schematically. I'm also interested, well, both of the other games, quite frankly. I mean, Kansas
13:11City, we've talked so much about how there's the people we all know in Mahomes and Kelsey,
13:16but that team also has one of the best defenses right in the NFL and now rested and home and all
13:24of these things. What did Houston do in their somewhat surprising game against the Chargers
13:32that would carry over, if anything? Well, you know, Houston's an interesting situation. They've
13:38got a really, really good defense. They've got two phenomenal edge players in Anderson and Hunter.
13:43They've got two really good corners, Stingley and Lasseter. Lasseter has been phenomenal as a rookie.
13:49You know, so their defense is really good, and they've got more players than that too,
13:53but they're the ones people know about. But yet offensively, I think, look, I don't think
14:00this game's going to be 35-30, but I think that they're going to have to score some. And, you know,
14:06Stroud's been up and down this year. I thought he made a couple of really good throws last week,
14:10but for the most part, he's working through his development. See, this is the other thing I find
14:16interesting. When people talk about these guys, you know, it takes time. He had the great rookie
14:20year, so all of a sudden, everybody assumed he's on his way to the Hall of Fame. You know, this year,
14:24you know, a couple of things started to stand out. He struggled a bit in the pocket when there were
14:28people around him. You saw last week that the offensive staff, they really built a beautiful
14:33game plan. Everything was quick rhythm. Get the ball out, because that's who he is. At his core,
14:38he's a pocket quarterback who needs to play with timing and rhythm. So, but, you know, Steve
14:44Spagnuolo, there's not a better situational defensive play caller in the league, especially
14:50with pressure, than Spaggs. And that's going to be a really intriguing part of this game.
14:56How does Kansas City look to you when you look at the film offensively? Because I see a passing
15:00attack that is really middle of the pack in a run game that is almost the bottom five in football.
15:08Yeah, they've become a team that's really not great on offense throughout four quarters,
15:13but in those critical, what we call high leverage situations, Mahomes seems to make a play. So they
15:20haven't necessarily scored a ton of points this year, but like I said, in those critical moments,
15:25they convert. I mean, keep one thing in mind, they are the best third down offense in the NFL.
15:31A lot of people might not know that, but they convert on third down. So, and that's absolutely
15:37critical. And they've really turned into, I don't want to say turned into, but Mahomes has, I think,
15:42the second most drop backs of any quarterback in the league. And that might surprise people,
15:47because this year, people aren't looking at the Chiefs going, man, that offense is just explosive.
15:51But yet they're a passing offense, even though they're not necessarily hitting 50, 60 yard plays.
15:57So, you know, they're kind of an interesting team. And keep in mind, you know, someone like Kelsey,
16:02who, you know, a lot of people said didn't have a great year and he didn't numbers wise,
16:06he's going to have 25 days off. I mean, you know, these guys are going to be rested and
16:10ready to go. They're going to be healthy. Speaking of rested and ready to go and maybe
16:14getting a little healthier. I love the Detroit Lions offense, especially indoors. And it sounds
16:19like they're going to get David Montgomery back. How does that change what they do and going
16:25against a young Washington team? What do you see as kind of the pressure points in that game?
16:32Yeah, I don't think it changes much of what they do, other than the fact that Gibbs probably won't
16:35get 21 carries a game like he's gotten the last three games. And boy, is that guy explosive.
16:40But just to show you how good, you know, their all line is just like the Eagles all line,
16:45like Saquon Barkley leads the NFL in the fact that he's almost 75 percent of his yards
16:52have come, you know, before contact, you know, same with Gibbs. He's in the 70 percent range,
16:58you know, so that's remarkable. Those, you know, the Lions have a great all line.
17:03So and Goff, you know, he's a pocket quarterback, but they protect him and he may throw the ball
17:08between the numbers. He's a window thrower, as good a window thrower as there is in the league.
17:13So that's going to be an interesting matchup against that secondary. Obviously, Marshawn
17:18Lattimore is now back playing. He's still a quality corner, but their offense is difficult
17:23because they can they can beat you so many different ways with a really good all line
17:28and just good skill people. I'm not asking you to put your
17:32self in the minds of the voter or pretend you are a voter, but just watching the film this year,
17:37who do you think was the best offensive player that you saw on tape?
17:41Oh, boy, that's one of those questions. The best offensive player.
17:47You watched all the tape and, you know, everyone has to talk about who's the MVP,
17:51but I wanted to go to a film guy, Greg, a guy who actually sees it like I see it from an all 22
17:56standpoint. And you see what you thought when you're looking at the tape, who stands out as
18:01the most effective offensive player? Boy, there's a lot of players in the league.
18:05I mean, I'm trying to I'm trying to look at the teams right now, you know, as the best,
18:11you know, again, we're not necessarily talking about most valuable. We're not
18:14necessarily talking about, you know, that move, the best offensive player.
18:20You know, I'll tell you, the guy that comes to my mind and, you know, obviously he's a great
18:25player. So it's not this might not be profound, but the guy that comes to my mind is Joe Burrow.
18:30And I'll tell you why, because keep this in mind when you go into a game every Sunday,
18:37knowing that you have to put up thirty five points, just have a chance to win.
18:41It's not even guaranteed that if you put up thirty five, you're going to win,
18:46but just have a chance to win. I'm not sure people understand how hard that is.
18:52So given what he did this year under those circumstances, I would say that that his
18:58name would just came to my mind again. You know, you're asking me a question that I don't have,
19:02you know, an hour to think about. But that just that just came to my mind. I like the answer.
19:06Greg, Greg, are you an MVP voter? I am not. You're not. Okay. I'm not allowed to do any
19:12of that because I work for the league. Got it. There you go. Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay.
19:16So I can't be I can't be a Hall of Fame voter, although guys who vote for the Hall of Fame
19:21reach out to me to ask me my opinion. But I'm not allowed to be a Hall of Fame voter.
19:25Okay. So you like you wouldn't even weigh in on Lamar Jackson versus Josh Allen on the MVP race.
19:30And to be honest with you guys, I know fans might not like my answer.
19:34I don't care about that kind of stuff at all. Yeah, that's meaningless to me. Yeah. I mean,
19:39yeah. Yeah. I'm not surprised. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I asked it the way I asked it because
19:43I didn't want you to get into the popularity contest aspect of it. But I like the answer.
19:49Yeah. Just like I don't like when people like I heard someone talking,
19:52you know, because I'm on, you know, I see social media. Obviously, I don't sit there all day and
19:55look at it. But I mean, I hear some stuff and I hear people, you know, saying things like,
19:59well, you know, if Josh Allen loses this game, you know, that's going to prove that he's really
20:03not that good. Or, you know, if Lamar loses this game, people are going to say he can't win.
20:08You know, I mean, you know, so OK, so what does that you know, what does that mean? So does that
20:12mean the bill should get rid of Josh Allen or the Ravens or the Ravens should get rid of Lamar
20:17Jackson? They say this stuff and what does it even mean? Greg, I'm moving on from the loser
20:22of this game. I'm moving on. Yeah, I'm out. Yeah, I think I think they should just go to
20:26that quarterback store that I mentioned earlier and just, you know, get another quarterback.
20:30Yeah. Yeah. Sam Donald, free agent. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. OK. There it is. Greg
20:35Cosell says, pick up Sam Donald and cut Josh Allen. There you go. Right. Exactly. Perfect.
20:41Greg. Thanks, man. Great to talk to you as always. Guys, I love it. Thanks so much. All right.
20:46There you go.