This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Pat Marsh to discuss the films; Amadeus, Fargo, E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial, and A Fish Called Wanda.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deesey and each week I'll be joined by a guest
00:18to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life. Each guest will reflect on
00:23the films which have meant the most to them over the years and every week there will be a Kent
00:28Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that has a connection to the county. And now let
00:34me introduce you to my guest for this week. She is a linguist, translator and writer with four books
00:40published. She is Pat Marsh. Great to have you on the show Pat. Thank you for having me. Absolute
00:47pleasure. Ah, Amadeus, I saw this at the cinema sometime around 1984. Ah, yes. Yes, I think it
00:55was, was it 1984? Yes, it was. This was Milos Forman, wasn't it? Yes, Milos Forman. Second Oscar. Yes. Yes. And
01:03yeah, I should tell you that I've seen a lot of films in my life and quite a few from the Prague
01:12film school. You know, he was a Czech who had to escape from Czechoslovakia as it was then when
01:20the Soviet invasion happened in 1968. And he went to the USA and made some wonderful films. And this
01:27my one of my favourite films, Amadeus. And it is my favourite film, probably because it means a lot to
01:35me. My husband, who taught screenwriting at Kent, what is it called, Canterbury Christ Church University,
01:42for 16 years until his death in 2018. He, he was a great fan of 60s musics and the Beatles, but he
01:53loved Mozart. And, and I did too. And we particularly loved the Requiem, the Mozart Requiem. And this film
02:02is all about basically how Mozart came to write the film and write the Requiem, and, and how basically
02:13it killed him, you know. And, and I'm a member of Canterbury Choral Society, I have been for 30 years,
02:19and we sang the Requiem, in fact, a couple of months after he died. And our lovely conductor asked the Dean
02:27to dedicate the, the, the, the Requiem to my husband, Goran Stepanovsky. So, yeah, all in all,
02:36Mozart and Amadeus mean a lot to me. Well, that's beautiful. And lovely that it all sort of came full
02:42circle. Yes, yes. I was, I was probably only about 12 when I watched this. And I remember thinking how
02:47irreverent it was, but, but also, but in a good way, because suddenly I saw, was it Tom Holtz,
02:53isn't it? Yes. And, and F. Murray Abraham. But suddenly seeing this Mozart, certainly as a child,
02:58jumping around, being quite ostentatious. And I thought, you know, are they allowed to portray
03:04Mozart? Because I, in my mind, I imagine Mozart as a very sort of stately figure. But it, but it was
03:09eye-opening because it was almost like, ooh, how could they get away with this? But that, that was my sort
03:15of awakening. And, and I think for a lot of people probably as well, an interesting gateway into knowing
03:22more about Mozart and classical music through a film that, that caught your attention by catching
03:27you off guard. Well, this is actually one of the reasons that I love the film is that it does deal
03:33with what is genius, you know? And he, Mozart, is this vulgar, he's very obscene and dissolute. And he,
03:46he just wants sort of sex and, and parties and having fun and, um, spends all his money just like
03:53that and, uh, totally irresponsible. Um, and of course he's contrasted with Salieri, um, who is the
04:01court composer who has dedicated his life to music, um, and has told his vowed to God that he will be
04:10celibate because, um, he wants to be a great composer. And he, he says, well, if you make me a great composer,
04:17God, you know, I will remain celibate, um, and, um, and dedicated to you. And, uh, and so we actually
04:25follow how he decides that, you know, God has favored this Mozart, this worthless being, you know, uh, over
04:34him who's dedicated his life to, to God. Um, and yet this man can make divine inspired music, you know,
04:42and he can't. And so he decides that he'll have his revenge on God. So he, um, he realizes when he's
04:48watching Don Giovanni, uh, Mozart's amazing opera with the, uh, the commandant who comes from the dead
04:56and, um, and sort of, um, there's a wonderful aria where he's sort of condemning his, um, this, um,
05:06Don Giovanni for, for his life of, well, you know, dissolution, uh, what's the word, um, of licentiousness
05:14and, and everything else. And, uh, and he realizes that Mozart actually, um, feels like that about his
05:21father, that his father, um, blamed him, um, for not being a better man, so to speak. So he, uh,
05:30he puts on a mask and comes and, uh, says to Mozart, you know, I want you to write a requiem for me.
05:38Um, and he says, oh, um, who's, who is it for? And he says, well, for a man who didn't have one,
05:45but deserved one. And of course that goes to Mozart's heart because he, he should have, um,
05:54he should have respected his father more and he should have, uh, he should have honoured him
05:59with a requiem, you know, so he starts writing the requiem and becomes ill. But, um, so the whole
06:06thing is about, you know, uh, genius is not what you think. Um, it, it's just inborn. And however much
06:14you try to, uh, you study and you work and you, you do your best, whatever you do, you can never
06:22sort of write great works without that inborn talent, you know, which Mozart has, of course.
06:28Well, uh, it is time now to move on to your second chosen film. And well, you've gone for Fargo.
06:35So, um, perhaps a change of pace or maybe not. There's certainly plenty of irreverence in this
06:41Coen brothers Oscar winning film. Yes. I love the, the Coen brothers. Um, I, I love, they, they
06:48write these black comedies and I think probably black comedy is, is my favourite genre in, in some ways
06:55because, uh, because you can, um, you can sort of show people a lot about themselves and, and our human
07:03nature through laughter, you know, and, uh, and I think it's, it's a great way to, uh, both entertain
07:09and teach people, you know, and, uh, so this, my, I remember my son said to me, um, oh, mum, you must
07:16watch Fargo because he said, um, he said, if you get through the first half hour, you will meet this
07:21amazing character, you know, um, and, uh, and, and you'll just love her. And he was quite right.
07:28This, um, Marge, the police officer appears after this awful, um, there's a car salesman who, um,
07:37um, he's, uh, he's got into debt and, um, he has a very rich father-in-law and, um, and he decides
07:47that, um, the best way, because his father-in-law won't give him any money or anything. He thinks
07:51he's worthless. And, uh, so he decides that what he'll do is have his wife, the, the, obviously the
07:59daughter of this very wealthy man, um, kidnapped and then demand a ransom. And he will obviously pay
08:06this and, uh, he can take the money. And he hasn't thought this through at all because, um, finds a,
08:12a random criminal, uh, through a contact at work who was in prison. You know, it's just,
08:18it's just ridiculous. And this is what I think about the film because there's the caption appears
08:22at the beginning saying, this is all based on true events. Of course, it is utter nonsense,
08:27but that's the genius of the Coen brothers because, uh, I mean, it gets to the heart of why we watch films.
08:33Do we, do we really want a film that is, uh, uh, a mirror of, of something that has happened? Or do
08:39we want to be taken into the sort of territory where we are confounded, dumbfounded, confused,
08:45bewildered, and, and, and maybe entertained? And it sounds like, as you say, when Frances McDormand
08:49comes on after, I think a good 40 minutes into the film because she went to win the Oscar, uh, then,
08:54then it completely changes and subverts all expectations. Yes, yes. And she's, she's pregnant,
09:00and she seems like a very ordinary woman, but, um, you, you do see quite quickly that she's an
09:08excellent detective. She, she works out what's going on very quickly and she's a great judge of
09:13character. So she, she does work out, uh, that it's, um, this car salesman who's, who's arranged all this.
09:20Um, and, uh, and, and she's her, the scenes with her husband are just wonderful. He's, um, he designs, um,
09:29stamps and he, he paints ducks for, for stamps. And he's a very modest man who, who brings her breakfast
09:38in bed, you know, and looks after her and makes sure she comes with her lunch at the police station.
09:43And they, they're just a really happy couple. And they're such a contrast to these criminals who, who
09:49are just, well, just completely out of control. And, and it's, it's wonderful. What I love is at the end,
09:56when, um, she, she actually finds, um, the killer and you think, oh my God, you know, he'll kill
10:03this lovely Marge, the police officer. And he's, he looks at her and he just, he runs away and she
10:11shoots him in the leg. And then the next scene, he's in the back of the police car, you know,
10:15being taken to the police station, completely cowed, you know, and, and that's also wonderful that
10:22somehow you, you get the impression that, that she is this, she is good, you know, defeating evil
10:29and, uh, in this sort of amazing way. And, uh, and of course, um, the last scene, they talk about,
10:37she and her husband are in bed and, um, and she says, oh, just two months. And she's going,
10:43she's going to give birth to new life and, and there's hope, you know, for the future. So it sort
10:48of ends on that lovely note. So this ordinary, and certainly it's a husband in there, uh, is the
10:56epitome of that, but mixed with this caper, this, this thing that comes out of somebody's fevered
11:01imagination. The reason I love it is because it is a morality tale, because when she's got this guy
11:06in the back of the police car and she's taking him to the police station, she says, so you, you murdered
11:12all these people and, uh, uh, and what for? For a little bit of money? Don't you know that money
11:18isn't important in life? It's a lovely day and, and, and here you are. And it's, it's a very simple
11:25sort of message, but that's the message of the film, you know, money is the root of all evil, uh, and,
11:30and she has love. Well, well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show.
11:36However, before we go to the break, we have a Kent Film Trivia question for you at home.
11:42Which of these 1944 films featured selling railway station? Was it A, A Canterbury Tale,
11:50B, On Approval, or C, Cover Girl? We'll reveal the answer right after this break. Don't go away.
11:56Hello, and welcome back to Kent Film Club. Just before that ad break, we asked you at home a
12:09Kent Film Trivia question. Which of these 1944 films featured selling railway station? I asked,
12:16was it A, A Canterbury Tale, B, On Approval, or C, Cover Girl? And now I can reveal to you that the
12:22answer was, in fact, A, A Canterbury Tale. One of the first shots we see in the film is of the
12:28fictional Chillingbourne railway station. The railway station used for this scene is just outside of
12:33Canterbury and is, in fact, the selling railway station still in service. Did you get the answer
12:39right? Well, it is time now, Pat, to move on to your next chosen film. Oh, and you've gone for E.T.
12:47The Extra-Terrestrial. Not for the first time chosen on this film. Oh, right. Very recently. Oh,
12:55oh, sorry. I didn't realise that. Oh, not at all. No, it's a perennial choice. What made you go for E.T.?
13:00Well, when my children were growing up, I must have watched this film quite a few times,
13:09three or four times. It was often on at Christmas, wasn't it, and things like that.
13:12And what I think is so wonderful about it is that the aliens in the film are peaceful scientists.
13:23You know, they've come to Earth to look at the flora and fauna and everything, and E.T. gets left
13:33behind because he's looking at some flowers and so on. And it's a child who discovers him and who
13:45takes him in and hides him and looks after him. And it's just this lovely idea that a child has no
13:55prejudices about what people look like, you know, and that he doesn't, well, he does, he's a bit sort
14:01of surprised at what he looks like, but he doesn't sort of condemn him as an, like an adult might sort
14:10of, you know. And then, of course, we see that this extraterrestrial has these amazing powers, you know,
14:18he, they ask him about where he comes from. And he levitates the balls on the table to show this
14:27this planetary system where he lives. And, of course, they're gobsmacked. And then later, when E.T. cuts,
14:38I mean, Elliot, the little boy, when he cuts his finger, the light comes on in E.T.'s finger, and he just
14:45touches the finger and it's healed. And, of course, there's the most wonderful, one of the, I think, the
14:54most classic scenes in film that I've ever seen is when they're on a bike, they want to go to the
15:04forest and put out their machine to get to contact E.T.'s friends, you know, from his planet to come back
15:14and get him. And they need to get into the forest. So they're on a bike. E.T. is covered in a blanket,
15:23so people don't see him. And he just makes the bike fly up into the sky and soar over the forest
15:31against the harvest moon, you know. You see, it's so moving. It's a wonderful scene that they're flying
15:41together. And it happens again at the end and the music builds at the end. And there's something
15:47remarkable about E.T. in the sense that, I mean, that that sort of term, you know, the alien other,
15:53you've hit the nail on the head when you say about the finger, because what we see is E.T. and Elliot
16:00actually being not, it's not the difference between them, but actually the commonality,
16:05which is, of course, at the end, why when E.T. suffers, he suffers. And you realise that from a
16:13child's perspective as well, it's like, I mean, Toy Story did the same sort of thing. But the idea
16:18that we as children, there are investments, emotional investments in things that adults
16:23don't understand. And it's a film told and framed entirely from a child's like perspective,
16:28certainly in terms of the camera work.
16:29And that's what's so lovely, that he, as I say, he has no prejudices about this creature. And he
16:36wants to protect him from, he says, these scientists who would want to do experiments on you. He knows,
16:42you know, that they wouldn't treat him as a sort of creature with feelings and emotions. And of course,
16:51he discovers how homesick E.T. is, you know, and that E.T. go home, that's phone home, yes.
16:58That's the classic thing that E.T. learns to say. And he helps him. And that's another thing,
17:06you know, about friendship, that if you're a true friend, will help you to achieve what you most want,
17:12and he most wants to go home. And so he helps him to do that. And at the end, it's lovely,
17:18because he says, you know, stay. And E.T. says, come. And then they hug. And again,
17:27the light goes on in the finger, and E.T. says, I'll be right here, you know. And of course,
17:33he will be. He'll always remember him. And they have this telepathic connection.
17:38Well, that notion of opposites attract, in this case, it shows, you know, the opposites. But it's,
17:45you realize that any differences that there are, are completely leveled out. And I think
17:52that's the journey that Spielberg takes us on. It's the alien other who actually becomes
17:57the familiar. And actually, he has a better connection with the alien than he does with his
18:02friends, or indeed, even with his own sister or mother. And I think that that is movie magic.
18:09Yes. Yes. And Spielberg, I mean, he just knows how to manipulate emotions in the very best way,
18:17sense of the word, you know, in that he helps you to empathize with E.T. and with Elliot and
18:25with all of them and to love them, you know. And that's the other thing. The other sci-fi movie
18:31he's got the Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Again, these are peaceful aliens, you know,
18:36it's not sort of, you know, they're not trying to conquer the world and like in Independence Day or
18:42War of the Worlds or whatever, you know. And that's what I love about Spielberg, that he doesn't,
18:47he doesn't go for the sort of the easy option. He shows completely different side of aliens,
18:55you know, and what extraterrestrials might be, when we shouldn't be afraid of them,
19:00we should learn from them, you know. Well, it is time now, Pat, to move on to
19:04your final chosen film. Oh, and my eyes light up when I see A Fish Call Wonder,
19:09because this hasn't been picked on the programme before, and I adore this film.
19:12I'm actually only thinking about it in Charles Crichton, as I was coming in earlier.
19:16Oh, yes. So what made you pick this? This classic from, what, 1988?
19:19Yes, yes. Well, it's Charles Crichton, who was the, you know, the Ealing Studios films,
19:27and Ealing comedies, and I loved the Lavender Hill mob, and you know those. And it's a combination
19:34with John Cleese, and of course, I grew up with Monty Python's Flying Circus, and for me, it's the
19:39ultimate in comedy, and Michael Palin's in it as well. And it's just perfect structure, you know.
19:50It's a heist movie. There are these four criminals robbing a bank, getting these diamonds, and of
19:57course, then betraying, trying to betray each other and get the diamonds for themselves. But for me,
20:03the wonderful thing is every scene, you follow each person, and they each have their own sort of
20:09thing that they're trying to do. And John Cleese is the archetypal Englishman, you know. He's so
20:17buttoned up and terribly just wants to avoid embarrassment in any event, you know. I love the
20:24the stereotyping of the English, the really uptight English, and the Americans who are completely,
20:31you know, sort of passionate and violent, and yeah. But you just made me think as well that
20:36there is that old adage about, you know, the one that turned, because he's taken for a ride. You
20:41could say he's being, in the language of today, gaslighted. Yes. And you know, she's obviously
20:46not really interested in him, and he thinks, you know, he's actually on the verge of, you know,
20:50having, he's actually having an affair. Yeah. But then, of course, when he realises what's going on,
20:56and the same with the Michael Palin character, who, of course, then, when he's almost like,
21:02now that you've eaten my fish, that's the last straw. And then, actually, they turn the tables.
21:07Yes. And then what you have is this, to begin with, we're laughing at the stereotypes,
21:12but then, if you like, you've got those English reserved types, then going against type,
21:21and suddenly you realise that the film then goes into really unexpected terrain.
21:25Yes. Yes. And a happy ending, because he goes off with Wanda, and they have 17 children,
21:33and found a leper colony. But, of course, the other great character is Otto, Wanda's lover,
21:42who she pretends is her brother. And he's very jealous, so he's always spoiling the situation when
21:49she's trying to seduce Archie. He turns up, and he actually, when Archie calls him stupid,
21:57he hangs him out the window from the fifth floor of this flat by his legs. And so we see this very
22:07sort of English barrister saying, I sincerely apologise for having called you, and uses all
22:14this legal language of apology. And Otto is sort of, right, OK, and brings him back in again.
22:22And, of course, Wanda is furious with him, because she's supposed to be seducing this guy to get
22:28the information from him about the diamonds. And she calls him stupid as well. And it's lovely. She says
22:35he says, well, you know, I read philosophy, he thinks that he's a great intellectual. And she says,
22:44well, let me correct you on a few things. You know, the central message of Buddhism is not every man for
22:52himself. The London Underground is not a political movement, you know. And it's just wonderful. She
22:58comes out with all these hilarious things. And she says, I've worn dresses that have a higher IQ,
23:03you know. And, and he's, yeah, he's just so triggered. He just keeps, you know, shooting
23:10everybody and everything. And in the car, he drives off on the right. And then when all these cars crash
23:16into into something because of him, he shouts, he's a wonderful sort of stereotype of a typical
23:23stupid American. And yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today. But before
23:30we go, if you live in Kent, and want the chance to share four films of your choice, reach out to us
23:36at KMTV, and you might be invited in to be my next guest. But for now, many thanks to Pat Marsh for
23:42joining us and being such a brilliant guest. And many thanks to you all for tuning in. Until then,
23:47that's all from us. Goodbye.