This week Chris Deacy is joined by Sam Graham to discuss the films; Eighth Grade, Y Tu Mamá También, Goodfellas, and In Bruges.
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00:00 [Music]
00:13 Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deasey and each week I'll be joined by a guest from Kent
00:19 to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life.
00:23 Each guest will reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years
00:27 and every week there will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home
00:31 about a film that has a connection to the county.
00:34 And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week.
00:38 Not only is he a co-founder of the Canterbury Film Awards but he is also studying his MA
00:44 in writing for script and screen. He is Sam Graham.
00:49 Great to have you on the programme Sam.
00:51 Pleasure to be here Chris, thank you very much.
00:53 I know your films in advance but I can see that you've gone for eighth grade.
00:58 Eighth grade, that's right yes.
01:00 A film by Bo Burnham. So Bo started off on YouTube actually a few years ago
01:07 and he used to do his funny videos, writing songs and stuff, got a bit of an audience through that.
01:12 And he directed, this is his debut film, produced by A24.
01:19 I think they were going through a little bit of a period of trying new things.
01:25 They've got established talent such as Bo Burnham but also the same year they had Joe,
01:32 what's his name, I've forgotten his name now.
01:35 He directed mid-90s anyway, actor Jonah Hill, sorry there we go, got there in the end.
01:43 So yeah, it's a fantastic debut film, it's wonderful.
01:48 I've got a bit of a sack of four coming of age films.
01:52 I've got another one in the list you'll see a bit later on.
01:55 The thing about coming of age films is that there are some coming of age films,
02:00 I'm not sure, Mean Girls is probably a bad example,
02:03 but they're coming of age films in a particular era
02:08 and you can watch them either as part of that era or outside of it.
02:12 And you can watch it 20 years on and think oh my goodness.
02:15 But this one here is obviously relatively recent,
02:18 but do you want to talk around why it might be a coming of age film for you as well?
02:23 Sure, you're talking there essentially about oftentimes coming of age films, they do date.
02:31 I think eighth grade is very contemporary,
02:35 so Bo Burnham did a hell of a lot of research on the slang that the kids these days are using,
02:42 things like that, the fact that they no longer use Facebook,
02:45 which they found out mid-shooting, had to change a few lines,
02:48 just to stay on the money with that kind of thing.
02:52 I just think it's wonderfully cast.
02:55 For me, a coming of age film, they're really quite hard to do.
03:00 It's hard to capture a time in your life where everything is so important
03:05 and you really, really feel that with this film, I feel.
03:08 And so when you're watching this and you're watching somebody else's growth
03:13 with all the different permutations along the way,
03:17 do you watch it and think, yeah, that could be me in a different kind of context?
03:22 Do you think that your life could play out in the same way?
03:25 Or maybe the absolute last thing you want is for your life to play out in the same way
03:28 as the character in this film?
03:30 I think a good coming of age film, the protagonist is usually a bit of a placeholder for yourself,
03:35 isn't it really?
03:36 When you watch it, you feel like the aim of it is for you to relate.
03:41 I feel like as someone-- I used to suffer quite badly from anxiety,
03:46 as does the protagonist, Kayla, here in the film,
03:49 and it is represented perfectly.
03:52 It's very, very accurate to how things, I feel, were for me growing up as well.
03:56 So that's definitely important when looking at a coming of age film.
04:00 Done perfectly well here.
04:02 Do you find with a coming of age film, is there a kind of narrative
04:08 whereby somebody learns something is changed?
04:11 Often that's the sort of-- a few guests have chosen Charles Dickens-based films in the past,
04:16 and you see that as a template for this in so many ways,
04:19 that in the Scrooge tradition, somebody becomes a better person going through all the trials.
04:24 Setting that in a school context is also quite clever and really resonates.
04:29 Oh, yeah, absolutely. You see Kayla's sort of development through the film,
04:36 obviously going from a very nervous person who projects mainly online to no one.
04:43 She runs a YouTube channel where she doesn't get many views,
04:48 but she's projecting herself as a very confident person
04:52 in contrast to how she actually is in real life.
04:55 You see her in real situations and her anxiety playing through there,
04:59 but you see her overcome that in small ways throughout the film,
05:03 which is really nice to see, isn't it?
05:05 Yeah, and I realise now, as you were describing this,
05:08 I have indeed seen this and I saw this on the big screen.
05:11 And it's that way that somebody can perhaps be a more bolder person on camera
05:17 when the rest of their life they're really insecure, full of anxiety.
05:20 And that sense that when the camera's on her, suddenly a different persona emerges.
05:24 Yeah, absolutely. She's in her own space, in her own environment,
05:28 projecting the person she wants to be.
05:31 And there is a sort of dissonance between how she's acting there and how she is in real life.
05:37 And the irony is she's giving advice on how to overcome these anxieties and stuff,
05:42 but not following her own advice at the same time in her own life.
05:47 Yeah, and so do you feel, is there a lesson from this?
05:50 I mean, in a way we've touched on that.
05:52 But is there a sort of, I mean, maybe we don't want films to have lessons
05:55 because they're preaching to us, but do you come away from it
05:58 and thinking, "That's what I have to be, that's what I have to do"?
06:01 I think it could be.
06:03 I definitely think it could be, you know, a young person watching that
06:06 could definitely relate to Kayla and, you know, it would help them perhaps
06:11 overcome some of that anxiety in the way she does in the film.
06:14 But I think also there are lessons to be taken away from it in other ways,
06:19 not just looking at Kayla's development, for example,
06:22 in the way it portrays the education system in the States, you know,
06:27 and pointing out certain flaws within that system.
06:31 So, you know, it's an excellent film to cast a spotlight on those kind of things.
06:35 Brilliant. Thank you so much for that, Sam.
06:37 Well, it's now time to move on to your second chosen film,
06:40 and you've gone for Itumamatambion, which I saw quite a few years ago.
06:44 Yeah, a wonderful film. Do you know, honestly, fantastic.
06:47 It's full of passion, excitement.
06:50 It's, again, another coming-of-age film.
06:53 Very, very different, I think, to Eighth Grade.
06:56 It has a lot to say sociopolitically about Mexico, where it's set.
07:02 You know, two young boys go on a road trip
07:05 and take a slightly older, not too much older, woman with them, you know,
07:10 and it's about exploring themselves and exploring, you know,
07:14 many different aspects of growing up, you know,
07:17 but also in the background there's so much going on
07:20 in terms of, you know, what's going on in Mexico.
07:23 The background is as much of a character, I feel, in this film as the protagonists.
07:29 You just made me remember, I remember seeing the trailer for this
07:32 so many times before it came out, and it made sure it gave us the translation,
07:37 sort of, you know, "and your mother too".
07:39 Yeah, that's right.
07:40 And you've just richly described it, because it's like a road movie,
07:44 coming-of-age drama, and, you know, we've touched on what that means
07:49 in the context of Eighth Grade,
07:51 but what makes this particular coming-of-age narrative distinctive?
07:56 I think it is, it employs a tactic which you see sometimes in films
08:01 doesn't often work out, which is narration.
08:05 So, you know, sometimes you feel it's cheesy,
08:08 it's exposition, needless exposition, or clunky.
08:12 However, in this film, it's used to give context to, you know, how things are.
08:19 So, obviously, you are following the story of our protagonists here,
08:23 but more so you're given the extra context to see around them.
08:28 You know, there's always something going on in the background.
08:31 You know, you see exactly how Mexico is,
08:33 pointing out things, you know, that do need attention.
08:37 But, you know, it is, like I say, a very, very passionate film,
08:41 and, you know, it's one I think people should watch as a rite of passage.
08:45 Yeah, well, actually, that was the perfect segue to what I was going to say,
08:48 because road movies, rite of passage, you know, planes, trains, automobiles,
08:51 completely different genre.
08:53 But there's something in this, isn't there, about what a road movie can do,
08:56 because you've got the journey, you've got the destination.
08:58 Yeah.
08:59 Remind me, and the viewers watching this who may not have seen the film,
09:03 what is the sort of destination and what is the journey?
09:07 So they are going, supposedly, to a beach, right?
09:12 They're travelling to a beach just to enjoy their summer, basically, you know?
09:16 And I don't want to talk too much about the story,
09:19 because I do feel people should watch this.
09:22 And, honestly, even if I were to sit here and describe the story,
09:25 it wouldn't do the film justice, honestly,
09:27 because there's so much more to it than that.
09:30 It does kind of-- you watch it, it's so dense, it's like a novel, I feel,
09:35 you know, with all that extra context given,
09:37 and it just has so much to say.
09:40 So, you know, not going into what the actual story is.
09:44 And, again, you mentioned the trailer.
09:45 I feel like the trailer doesn't do it justice at all, you know?
09:48 It's one of those where it paints it to be a completely different film, I think.
09:52 It made it seem more of a sort of comedy, maybe?
09:54 Yeah.
09:55 Yeah, I think you're right, because when I saw the film,
09:58 and I saw it a little while later, it wasn't what I was expecting.
10:02 And maybe I was sort of a little disappointed on one level,
10:06 because the trailer had made it out to be something quite different.
10:11 Yeah.
10:12 Did that happen in your case?
10:13 I hadn't seen the trailer before, you know, watching it prior to this.
10:17 I was very surprised to see how they-- you know, the decisions they took on that,
10:21 because it does make it seem like a teen comedy,
10:24 like a road trip kind of thing.
10:26 And it's quite a heavy, more poignant film than that, you know?
10:31 So I wonder if many people had the same experience you did,
10:34 going into the cinema, expecting one thing and getting something completely different.
10:38 But, you know, that's no fault in the film, I wouldn't say.
10:42 And is there-- absolutely, is there a bit of your own life in this, in a sense?
10:45 Do you sort of watch it and think-- I mean, I asked you that in relation to Eighth Grade.
10:49 Yeah.
10:50 But is there a sense in which this is a kind of-- you know, rites of passage are often repeatable,
10:55 you know, in the sense that at different stages in our lives,
10:57 we kind of feel that we go through things, maybe at different times, to our peers
11:00 or even the characters in a film.
11:02 But we kind of feel that there's a universality to these rites of passages.
11:06 Yeah, I definitely think so.
11:08 What's good about this film as well, I think, is it does challenge a lot of
11:12 sort of hegemonic views of masculinity, things like that,
11:16 which I feel like it's important for a young boy to see that kind of representation.
11:22 So, absolutely, you know, that's why it's part of the reason it's very meaningful to me, this film.
11:27 One of my choices.
11:28 Fantastic.
11:29 OK, well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show.
11:32 However, before we go to the break, we have a Kent Film Trivia question for you at home.
11:38 Which Wes Anderson film was filmed in Maidstone Studios?
11:43 Was it A, The Grand Budapest Hotel, B, The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar,
11:49 or C, The French Dispatch?
11:52 We'll reveal the answer right after this break.
11:54 Don't go away.
11:55 [Music]
12:06 Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club.
12:09 Just before the ad break, we asked you at home a Kent Film Trivia question.
12:13 Which Wes Anderson film was filmed in Maidstone Studios?
12:17 Was it A, The Grand Budapest Hotel, B, The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar,
12:22 or C, The French Dispatch?
12:24 And now I can reveal to you that the answer was in fact B, The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar.
12:30 Not only was Maidstone Studios utilised for filming,
12:33 but the Maidstone Power Hub was used for the hospital set as well.
12:38 Did you get the answer right?
12:40 Well, it is time now, Sam, to move on to your next chosen film.
12:44 And the delight in my eyes when I see that Goodfellas has come up.
12:49 We don't have enough Scorsese on this programme, if I may say so.
12:52 That's surprising.
12:54 Yeah, well, Goodfellas for me was, I think, the film that got me into films.
12:59 I think I was perhaps 11 or 12, probably way too young to have seen Goodfellas,
13:05 when I first saw it.
13:07 And I thought, I think prior to that you're there for the film
13:11 and you don't really think too much about it.
13:13 But watching this, I was like, oh, these can actually be good, right?
13:17 In terms of film.
13:19 Really, really wonderful film. Fantastic performances.
13:21 Obviously Ray Liotta, De Niro, Joe Pesci, fantastic.
13:25 Scorsese does a wonderful job.
13:27 This to me is, I know, The Godfather, obviously is fantastic films, first two.
13:33 But this is the quintessential gangster film for me, I'd say.
13:37 And it's kinetic. I mean, Godfather has its own pace.
13:40 Oh, yeah.
13:41 And brilliant in its own way.
13:43 With Goodfellas, it's hyper.
13:45 And of course you have characters who are on all sorts of narcotics.
13:48 And you kind of feel that the whole film, everything about it,
13:51 it's this sort of sense of you never know.
13:53 Their lives are so enriching that they literally don't think ahead.
13:57 And of course it all falls apart at the end.
13:59 It's a marantho story, really, isn't it?
14:01 Absolutely, yeah.
14:03 You're very right, it's exciting.
14:05 It's punchy, it's sexy.
14:07 I mean, The Godfather, like I say, fantastic film.
14:11 But this, you really see the heights of Henry Hill's life.
14:15 Obviously the glamour and all that kind of stuff.
14:19 And then obviously the crushing lows when it all comes down.
14:22 And he's crushed by his own hubris, I guess.
14:26 It's often the case in these sort of tragic films.
14:29 But really wonderfully done.
14:31 Yeah, and this is Scorsese as well.
14:33 Because he's very good at almost saying to you,
14:36 "These people, they're not the nicest of people."
14:39 But you watch them and he glamourises them.
14:42 But he's not glamourising them in a way that we all come away thinking,
14:45 "Hey, let's all go on the sort of spree that the characters do."
14:50 I think there is a morality element, but he immerses you in there.
14:54 This is not from the outside, like, "Don't do what these people are doing."
14:57 He immerses you in a lifestyle that feels real and rich.
15:00 You can almost feel nostalgic for it,
15:02 even if you didn't experience it yourself.
15:04 There's a whole world out there and you can see the allure.
15:07 You feel it fiscally.
15:08 Oh, absolutely, yeah.
15:10 So I think with Goodfellas,
15:14 you'd look at the old sort of gangster films from the '30s
15:18 and they are sort of very, you know, "Don't do this."
15:21 That message often pops up saying,
15:23 "The actions of the protagonists of the film should not be followed."
15:27 "This is a cautionary tale."
15:29 Scorsese doesn't do that.
15:31 He does show how glamorous their lifestyle was,
15:34 but the story in itself is the warning.
15:38 You watch to the end of the film, you're like,
15:40 "OK, he definitely suffered major consequences for his lifestyle."
15:46 So that is, I think, just a fantastic way to approach this kind of story, I'd say.
15:51 Yeah, and you've got all the sort of--
15:53 You don't quite know whether the characters are--
15:57 When they're being serious and there's the whole Joe Pesci funny how scene,
16:01 when you sort of realise that a single wrong word will result in a death.
16:05 And there's the sort of scene where you know that some--
16:07 You sort of think that one of the gangsters has been brought into the fold.
16:10 He's done something terrible by going on a spending spree
16:14 with money that they're supposed to be keeping under wraps.
16:17 And then, of course, he gets killed afterwards.
16:19 So you're watching this thinking, "Gosh, these are people living in a world
16:23 "by their own ethics, their own values."
16:25 And in a way, they have their own morality system.
16:27 Oh, yeah, absolutely.
16:29 It seems that you, in that kind of life,
16:32 that you're really sort of walking a tightrope.
16:35 You can't do or say the wrong thing because the consequences are your life.
16:39 And you said it perfectly right there.
16:42 It's-- Especially in that scene where they do--
16:46 They have stalled. They've done a big heist.
16:48 They've got all this money that they're supposed to be keeping under wraps.
16:51 And I guess just sort of the people that they are,
16:54 the flashy, ostentatious folk that they are,
16:56 they go and spend the money, you know, and they're not being smart with it.
17:00 And what do you expect from these kind of people?
17:03 But, you know, they do-- They pay the price with their life.
17:06 And, you know, that is, I think, fantastic writing in a way that it shows,
17:12 you know, they are-- They're living a high life to an extent,
17:16 but you do one wrong step and, you know, you're out of the game.
17:19 So it's a real warning, you know?
17:21 Yeah, and I watch this and sometimes think--
17:24 And maybe this is a wider thing about film,
17:27 that, you know, are we attracted to the darker side?
17:30 You know, we talk about horror, gangster films, film noir.
17:33 Scorsese is immersed in all of those.
17:35 He's tackled lots of different genres.
17:37 But this is also, of course, famously the year that he lost to Kevin Costner
17:43 for Dancing With Wolves.
17:45 It was one of those big Oscar sort of moments.
17:47 How do you think Goodfellas does sort of fit in
17:49 in the wider sort of body of filmmaking?
17:52 I think at the time, obviously, you know,
17:54 it had some disappointments in terms of awards.
17:57 But now I'd say it's way more prevalent in the zeitgeist of film.
18:03 I mean, looking back, it certainly has a very huge cult following.
18:08 I wouldn't even call it a cult following.
18:10 It just is a masterpiece of film.
18:13 And people look back and they really appreciate it.
18:15 I mean, obviously, Scorsese, he was very well established at the time,
18:18 did some fantastic films in the '70s, obviously,
18:21 and leading right the way up to doing Goodfellas.
18:24 But, I mean, this one, this one to me means more.
18:28 I mean, I wouldn't say it's his best film.
18:30 But to me, I think this one means the most.
18:34 Like I say, it's the one that got me into film.
18:36 And I remember I had it on my-- this is probably showing my age--
18:40 I had an iPod Touch back in the day,
18:42 and I managed somehow to get the film onto the iPod.
18:45 And I'd just sit awake at night, like day after day,
18:47 and just watch that film.
18:49 Just fantastic, you know?
18:50 Well, in my case, it was VHS. That ages me.
18:53 Well, it is time now to move on to your final chosen film.
18:56 And, oh, we were talking about gangsters.
18:58 Now, you've gone for In Bruges.
18:59 In Bruges, yes.
19:01 A gangster film in a very sort of different vein, I think, to Goodfellas.
19:05 However, this one, I think, with my background in screenwriting--
19:09 you know, I'm doing an MA in screenwriting--
19:12 I don't think you'd find a more perfectly written script than In Bruges.
19:16 Again, I think this is a film that's often overlooked.
19:19 I don't think it did particularly well at the time,
19:21 in terms of awards and accolades.
19:23 However, this one certainly does have a cult following, I'd say.
19:27 And, I don't know, to me,
19:30 Martin McDonagh here does a fantastic job in this screen.
19:33 Like, there's no wasted line in that script.
19:35 You know, everything comes back to mean something.
19:37 And, it's just a perfectly crafted screenplay, I'd say, for that reason.
19:41 You know, that's why it's here on this list,
19:44 and we're talking about it right now.
19:45 And, you made me realise, of course, when you mentioned Martin McDonagh,
19:48 and, of course, the Brendan Gleeson, Conor Farrell,
19:50 that they teamed up again for a film that did pretty well at the Oscars
19:54 just a year ago, as well.
19:55 Yeah, yeah, Banshees of an Assurance,
19:58 which is also a fantastic film, you know.
20:01 I'd say I'd seen this one before I went to see Banshees,
20:05 and this one, I'd say, has a more personal feel for me.
20:08 What does it work for you?
20:09 Because it's a kind of another, it's not a road movie,
20:11 but it also appears that there is a bit like Etteux Mamma Tambien.
20:14 There is a sense that there are maybe a fish out of water,
20:17 that they're somewhere else,
20:19 but it also has bits of the gangster elements
20:21 that maybe you would recognise from Goodfellas.
20:23 Yeah, I mean, sure.
20:24 So, it's two hitmen.
20:25 They've been sent to Bruges, fish out of water, absolutely, as you say.
20:29 And, I think it's a wonderful setting to place them in.
20:33 It's wonderful writing in the way that it's,
20:37 take these really strong, well-thought-out characters,
20:41 put them in a new environment,
20:43 and sort of shake the ant's nest a little bit
20:46 and see what we get from the different dynamics of the characters
20:49 in that new setting.
20:50 And, you know, what results from that is fantastic.
20:55 You know, it's a wonderfully, very creative, wonderful story, I'd say.
21:00 Yeah, and that fish out of water thing is interesting,
21:02 because, well, I'm not asking you to give away the ending,
21:05 but it reminds me what is learned along the way,
21:08 because Goodfellas has that sort of, the ending, when it jolts you,
21:11 and you think, "Oh, my goodness."
21:12 You know, suddenly you realise that maybe a harsh dose of reality
21:16 makes us sort of question what we've just been immersed in.
21:19 What plays out in Inbrooge?
21:21 So, in Inbrooge, obviously, they're sent to Bruges.
21:24 They're not sure why.
21:26 I think they sort of have a vague idea why they're there.
21:29 Colin Farrell's character accidentally kills a child when he's a hitman,
21:35 but he goes to kill a priest, and, you know, things play out a certain way,
21:40 and he accidentally kills a child.
21:43 And they realise that Brendan Gleeson's character is actually there.
21:49 He's going to kill Colin Farrell's character.
21:51 So there's a lot to do with morality in that situation.
21:56 So, like, similar to Goodfellas, I guess, codes and ethics
22:01 when it comes to the crime underworld, that kind of thing.
22:05 So that's very prevalent through the film.
22:07 Do you think the unexpected friendship, if we can call it that, that builds up,
22:11 is that something that makes them question their own profession, I suppose,
22:17 is the way?
22:19 Because does the personal and the professional sort of collide?
22:23 Well, certainly, you know.
22:25 I think, obviously, when Brendan Gleeson's character is tasked
22:29 with killing Colin Farrell's character, he does have to sit and think,
22:33 "Am I going to do this?"
22:35 It's essentially the major part of the film.
22:38 So, you know, definitely it's called into question there.
22:41 So, again, it is really sort of bringing ethics into it
22:46 and exploring the morality of what they do and their own codes
22:51 and the laws that they live by and what they deem to be acceptable
22:56 and what isn't, you know.
22:58 And it's just a wonderful way to explore that.
23:01 And when was the last time that you saw this film?
23:04 Oh, last time I saw this film, I'd say maybe last year.
23:07 I think I tend to circle back to films maybe once a year.
23:11 I'm a habitual watcher of most of my favourite films, I'd say.
23:15 Yeah, and did you sort of watch this again at the same time
23:18 as Banshees of Nisharan? Did you see them as companion pieces?
23:21 Do you know, I didn't watch it prior to seeing Banshees of Nisharan.
23:25 I think that would be a fantastic idea.
23:27 The thought never even occurred to me, do you know?
23:30 There we are. Well, I've given you a job for tonight.
23:32 All right, well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today.
23:35 Many thanks to Sam Graham for joining us and being such a brilliant guest.
23:39 And many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:41 Be sure to come back and join us again at the same time next week.
23:45 Until then, that's all from us. Goodbye.
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23:56 (upbeat music)
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