This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Stacey Bowles to discuss the films; Alien, The Great Dictator, The Matrix, and Hedwig and the Angry Inch.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris DC and each week I'll be joined by a guest
00:18from Kent to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life. Each guest will
00:23reflect on the films which have meant the most to them over the years. And every week
00:27there will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that has a connection
00:32to the county. And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week. She is a former
00:37film student and now the co-host of the podcast Nerds Against Normality. She is Stacey Bowles.
00:44Hello. Great to have you on the show Stacey. Thank you for having me. No, absolute pleasure.
00:49Now I don't know your choices in advance but Alien. Yes, classic. What made you choose
00:55this film? Ridley Scott. Yes. So I love science fiction films. I grew up with watching a
01:02whole range of science fiction films but this film in particular has just really for some
01:07reason infiltrated my life. I wrote my dissertation on it for university looking at the portrayal
01:13of feminism in science fiction films. I once went on holiday to Groyer in Switzerland because
01:19that's where the artist is from, up in the mountains somewhere. And it was the first
01:23episode that we reviewed on our podcast. Oh fantastic. And I have heard, as we were saying
01:29before we went on air, bits of your podcast, I think you were talking about Alien. Yes.
01:34And Ridley Scott of course is, Gladiator 2 is out at the moment that we're speaking and
01:39this was made in the late 70s. But it is iconic isn't it? I mean in terms of the feminist
01:45role here. And when this came out, I know it was similar perhaps a few years later when
01:51obviously the helm was taken by James Cameron, with a very strong female lead. But what is
01:57it that stands out about this particular iteration? I think Ripley is just such an iconic character
02:03and she really created, she was arguably the first strong female lead in film per se, but
02:11specifically science fiction films. And she really led the way for those that followed
02:16after her. So most notably in Terminator 2 for example, which we wouldn't have had perhaps
02:22without her being in this film. The film has lots of gender imagery in it. You know the
02:28ship is called Mother. When they go and speak to her it's in a very warm, white, brightly
02:34lit room where it's kind of womb like. And at the end of the film when she strips down
02:40to get into hypersleep, she's coming back into the womb in a very vulnerable state where
02:47she obviously meets and defeats the alien for the final time. But I just think that
02:54this film is also very different for its time. This was released just after Star Wars had
03:01came out, which was a very clean and pristine view on science fiction and the future. And
03:07this film is dirty and grim and bleak and so it's very unique and different. I can't
03:13imagine what people would have thought of it at the time.
03:16And I think you've hit the nail on the head there because it's easy now to look back and
03:20say this was the first. I mean as soon as I saw Alien, obviously I had to do a double
03:24take just to make sure it was the first, not Aliens. But at the time this was groundbreaking
03:29and I get the sense, and it was sort of often referred to as, because it's obviously set
03:33in space. But there's a very human drama here which is perhaps accentuated by the fact
03:39that they're being whittled down one by one and it's sort of putting humans in a position
03:45of adversity in order to show whether their humanity can be salvaged, whether there is
03:52any scope for salvation.
03:54Yeah, and it's an unusual mix of science fiction and horror and in fact I actually hate horror
04:00films, but I really love this film because of the science fiction elements to it. But
04:05there are still parts of it that really make me jump when he's crawling through the crawl
04:09spaces and the alien appears. I know it's coming, I've seen it hundreds of times but
04:13I still jump out of my skin waiting for it to come. But I think the alien is such a good
04:18predator, that's probably the wrong word to use when talking about the alien, in this
04:22film and I think when you pause in certain places you can see it in the background just
04:26watching and waiting and I like to be that nerd that will pause it and look at where
04:30it's perfectly merged with the interior of the ship to say, oh there it is. You can see
04:35it waiting and stalking her and I think it's really impressive.
04:39Because I suppose it's a sort of haunted house in space, I mean really it draws on those
04:44conventions, we've seen it before. But it's very telling that you mention Star Wars which
04:48was made just two years earlier because there is that sense that this is, and you know even
04:52the James Bond films in that era were doing the same thing with like Moonraker, setting
04:56it in space. But it generates an awful lot of fear and suspense. It only works because
05:01it's in space and yet it gets to the heart of that very sense of peril.
05:06Yes, yeah and I think you've got to mention the iconic special effects that are in this
05:12film, all practical effects which are my favourite in films, I think they look fantastic. And
05:19of course the iconic John Hurt scene on the table with the alien bursting out of his chest
05:24is probably the first thing I think of when I think of this film. Which I understand none
05:30of the cast knew about at the time so their reactions are all genuine. I think Sigourney
05:35Weaver thought he was going to die. And that he's still watching it back, it's disgusting,
05:41it's horrible.
05:42How often do you watch this? Have you seen this recently?
05:44Yeah, not too long ago, a couple of months ago, on and off, but I know it so well.
05:51Is it the sort of film that, well you've already said you can go back to it, but do
05:55you feel the same way about the ones, the sequels to this film?
05:59I think Aliens was also very iconic and I think they built on very much the same themes
06:06as this one, made it bigger and better and more of an action film. So I could go and
06:10watch that film again over and over because you always notice something different. The
06:15other sequels, hit and miss, you know, three is good but I don't like to mention too many
06:21after that because they weren't maybe as good. I'm one of the few people though that really
06:25enjoyed the resurgence of it in more recent times when Ridley Scott came back to complete
06:31the franchise but again it's the age old question of can you have an Alien film without Sigourney
06:36Weaver in it?
06:37Absolutely. Well it is time now Stacey to move on to your second chosen film and you
06:41have chosen The Great Dictator. Charlie Chaplin.
06:47Yes, I've kept it really modern. No, I love this film because I just love Charlie Chaplin,
06:55he's one of my heroes. He grew up in poverty in London. He shared one room with his mum
07:04and his sisters and his mum had really bad mental health issues so he was expected to
07:09provide for the family at a young age. He went out, he joined the theatre and then the
07:13rest is history. A real rags to riches story but what he never forgot throughout his enormous
07:20career was his connection to those that are underdogs in society or those that can't speak
07:28for themselves and this film really captures that I think. Obviously he plays the Jewish
07:33barber that has no name and it comes right to the end of the film where he makes that
07:37enormously powerful speech about freedom and about freedom of speech and don't stick
07:44up for the bullies and why would you help them, they're just going to use you and still
07:50to this day I watch that and it gives me goosebumps because it's so powerful.
07:55And certainly the immigrant experience as well, you're right, those silent Charlie
07:59Chaplin films really did speak to people who were perhaps in a position of some degree
08:06of not being able to call home home. Maybe they were in exile, they were refugees and
08:13of course you've got this film which is based on Adolf Hitler and of course it's a talkie.
08:19This is the thing as well for Charlie Chaplin, this was pretty groundbreaking. You understand
08:25the history obviously better than I do but there was a sense that he was doing something
08:28here that could easily have been a misfire. Am I right in thinking that perhaps he was
08:32even advised not to do this?
08:35He was, yeah. So yeah, quite rightly this was his first talkie film that I understand
08:41and a lot of silent movie stars at that time were struggling to make the transition between
08:45silent and talkies because their voices just didn't translate well into film. But obviously
08:49this was a huge success for him so that in itself is very impressive. It's such a brave
08:55film because it was made during World War II and he's directly parodying the most feared
09:02man across Europe and I just don't think that you would have that today. He was advised
09:07by many people not to do it but he owned his own studio and therefore he said no this is
09:12important to me, I want to send this message out and he carried on with the film.
09:17And was there a sense in terms of the reaction to this at the time? Because as you say there's
09:22a clear element of parody but there was a real risk in doing this and this isn't a film
09:29maker. Oliver Stone did something similar when he made a film about George W. Bush before
09:33George W. Bush had finished office but in this case this is during the war. In a way
09:38it was the most perfectly timed thing but also normally films are made looking back
09:45on somebody's life. Actually doing this during the war itself was quite a gamble.
09:49I think it was quite a gamble and from what I've read I think Hitler did see the film
09:57twice but in private and he banned it to be seen in any of his occupying territories.
10:04But I think this film probably captured that very British stiff upper lip, tongue in cheek
10:12humoured approach to hard times. And for me it's just the perfect combination of that
10:20silliness, that humour that he's so well known for, the slapstick element which still makes
10:26me laugh so much now but paired with this undercurrent of powerful heartfelt story throughout
10:37it is great.
10:39And also probably the most effective means. If you're going to try and parody a dictator
10:48using the medium of comedy and parody probably is more effective than any attempt to try
10:53and go for a more serious approach. We've had it in recent American elections and so
10:59on. What is the best way to outwit your opponent but actually doing it through sarcasm, through
11:04wit, through comedy. And the fact that all these many decades later you're choosing
11:09this film it shows that it may have been made for an audience during the war but all these
11:13many decades later it is something that still resonates.
11:16Yeah I think he had a weird connection to Hitler. He was born in the same week as him.
11:23They both grew up in poverty. They have a similar look. So he felt that it was his duty
11:29in a way to make this film.
11:30Well that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show. However before
11:34we go to the break we have a Kent Film trivia question for you at home.
11:39Which Winnie the Pooh based movie features spots around Dover?
11:43Is it
11:44A. Goodbye Christopher Robin
11:46B. Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey
11:48or C. Christopher Robin
11:49We'll reveal the answer right after this break. Don't go away.
12:06Hello and welcome back to Kent Film Club. Just before that ad break we asked you at
12:11home a Kent Film trivia question.
12:13Which Winnie the Pooh based movie features spots around Dover?
12:17I asked is it
12:18A. Goodbye Christopher Robin
12:19B. Winnie the Pooh Blood and Honey
12:21or C. Christopher Robin
12:23And now I can reveal to you that the answer was in fact C. Christopher Robin.
12:28In the film the Dover Harbour Marine Station was used as a London train station and Harbour
12:33Beach can be seen in the mid-credits scene.
12:36Did you get the answer right?
12:38Well it is time now Stacey to move on to your next chosen film and you've gone for
12:44The Matrix.
12:45Yes, as I mentioned I love science fiction films but this film is just huge in my childhood
12:53so I had to go with this film.
12:56I think it's a really clever release for its time in 1999 because and for those of you
13:02that were born after the 2000s this may not make sense but we were all terrified at the
13:08time of the millennium bug and the Y2K virus and this film really because those viruses
13:14were meant to you know bring down our tech and we couldn't continue with the internet
13:19and all this sort of thing and this film really leans into that.
13:22I think it's hugely based around computer programming and tech and you know it's got
13:27the iconic coding running down the screen in green and there's no other words for it
13:34just to say it was so cool, it was so cool at the time.
13:38Well I remember seeing a 20th anniversary screening in Dover in 2019 and the lady who
13:44took my ticket said that she was born when this came out and when I watched that film
13:50after 20 years it did strike me that in some ways it was dated because they're still using
13:54old-fashioned telephones, they're using I think I don't know about fax machines or anything
14:00but they're certainly using disks and of course at the time that all seemed the technology
14:06of the future but it's sort of I was surprised at how dated it felt when actually it's dealing
14:11with the most you know it's the most sort of technologically savvy kind of film it really
14:16touched a nerve at the time as you very well put.
14:20Yeah that's a good point actually I think maybe it combines both elements to it and
14:24when they're in the Matrix it is a pure 90s kind of world that they're living in isn't
14:29it?
14:31I mean one of the great things about this film is the philosophy that runs through it
14:35and I read that the Wachowski sisters asked the cast to read a philosophy book before
14:41they even read the script so they could understand what they were trying to capture and it's
14:46this idea of would you rather live in the real world knowing that it's the reality but
14:52it's really grim and horrible or would you rather live in the Matrix where you're in
14:58blissful ignorance and perhaps when you're in the Matrix you know that's what it looks
15:03like it's all artificial so it could be from any time period I suppose.
15:07And as you were saying that I was thinking of Fight Club which I saw around this period
15:10which also deals with those questions about whether we confront literally the world that
15:15we live in or we kind of submerge ourselves in a world of magazines and of consumerism
15:21but the Matrix is good at raising that question about what we think reality is because that's
15:26a universal trope and we see it in film we even go back to film noir you know what is
15:29the reality around us to what extent is it constructed to what extent is it artificial
15:34or is somebody whether it's a femme fatale or whether it's you know who is the person
15:38who is engineering this creation this world view and the Matrix sort of just does that
15:45through the lens of a science fiction film.
15:49Yeah and I think for me Neo and all the people on board the ship with him they're not your
15:55archetypal heroes you know he is a computer programmer he's a nerd he's not this huge
16:02action you know kind of character and yet he becomes the savior of the human race and
16:08they're able to do all these mind-blowing you know moves and all the physical effects
16:14they do in the Matrix because they're nerdy and they understand how the programming works.
16:21And the film of its time used really mind-blowing visual effects you know it has the bullet
16:27time and they're still things that you think of when you think of the Matrix today I think.
16:34And in the same way that when we talked about Alien earlier I asked you how you feel about
16:38the sequels, the Matrix there have been a few of them including one that came out in
16:442021.
16:45Yes well and until the recent one I would have said the Matrix is one of the best trilogies
16:50of all time for me I know some people think that the sequels perhaps weren't as good but
16:56I liked the further exploration of the world the real world that you see in the other subsequent
17:04movies.
17:05The latest one it was great it was full of nostalgia you can't not like a Keanu Reeves
17:11film but it it didn't quite hit the mark for me sadly.
17:14No because I saw you mentioned philosophy and I was thinking that Keanu Reeves would
17:18be perfect at that through the Bill and Ted films.
17:20Also Point Break which I saw at the BFI just a week or so ago but there is but there is
17:25something about you know the 90s nostalgias when this came out it was at the same time
17:29as the as the new Star Wars movie but it was you know episode one but but what was really
17:34interesting about that was that people were really sort of thinking hang on Star Wars
17:38is the film we have to watch but the Matrix is almost and it sort of knocked Star Wars
17:41out of the water.
17:42Yeah maybe it's another kind of polarizing different unique way of looking at science
17:47fiction again this is very dark very gritty I think when they're in the Matrix they use
17:52a green filter on everything to make it look like you're in a program or how they viewed
17:58it at the time in the 90s so yeah it's a very different film to others that were out at
18:04the time I think.
18:05Fantastic well it is time now to move on to your final chosen film Stacey and you've gone
18:11for Hedwig and the Angry Inch I've heard of I'm not sure I've seen it but you got five
18:18minutes to refresh my memory why have you chosen this film?
18:22So I was keen to know if you'd seen it or not because this film is absolutely huge in
18:28America but for some reason it just hasn't made it over here and it's a huge Broadway
18:34show and Hedwig's been played by Neil Patrick Harris and so on and so forth it's won Tony
18:40Awards it's rumored to be coming to the West End but it just hasn't made the jump yet it
18:46was created by John Cameron Mitchell who started off as a one-person drag show and Hedwig just
18:52became so beloved that it then obviously grew became a Broadway show and then made it into
18:57film Hedwig is all about identity and Hedwig spends the film finding out who she is her
19:03life is shaped by her love interests in the film and it's figuring out not only who she
19:09is but who her other half is so it's you know whether she's a man or a woman or whether
19:15her other half is a man or a woman she's not sure and I watched this film when I was at
19:20university and regardless of whether you can relate to the gender or sexuality question
19:28it's because of the identity theme that comes through it I really related to well I'm figuring
19:34out who I am and what that looks like so it really spoke to me on that level it's a kind
19:41of a cult classic and I would describe it as a modern-day rocky horror picture show in the way
19:47that again it's got those kind of gender drag themes through it which is fantastic but also
19:53right at the end of the film she sings a song to the misfits and the losers and Hedwig very much
19:59spends the whole film being an underdog again in society you know that speaks to people I think when
20:05you feel different and you feel a bit weird and you're trying to figure out who you are so I
20:09really connected with it on that level it's a rock musical so really loved that element of it and one
20:16of the songs in it is written about Plato's symposium I think it's called about this idea
20:21that human beings were once two-sided creatures man and man woman and woman man and woman and
20:27one day we were so strong and defiant that the gods split us in half and then we spent the rest
20:32of our lives trying to find our other half and that's what Hedwig explores in this film and
20:37those song lyrics appeared in my wedding Wow okay because before we get to that I was just thinking
20:46that it is a great companion to the matrix in terms of some of those as you were talking through why
20:50this film meant so much to you it seems almost an extension but through a different genre yeah
20:55either the rock music through through music that the matrix put forward but but so it impacted you
21:01to such an extent that you had some of the music yes yeah I think it's just a really powerful film
21:09it's Hedwig is larger than life it's got all the drag things that you'd associate with that
21:13ridiculous hair big makeup hilarious throughout but it has this really heartfelt story running
21:19through it which is fantastic I remember once I think I came close to watching this and I'd loved
21:24go back to my old diaries what did I see in its place but this from what you're saying that this
21:29I'm annoyed with myself that I that I didn't she take the plunge because as you're saying that this
21:34is a this is a seminal film I think so and like I say it's not well known in the UK I think in the
21:39past I've struggled to find even a DVD copy of it so I would really urge you to go and see it if you
21:45can because it is a modern-day version of Rocky Horror I think and how did you see it now because
21:51it was difficult to track down did you have to go to an awful lot of effort have you ever seen
21:55this on the big screen is it on an old VHS or one DVD no I first watched it at university and then
22:05subsequently I think I managed to find like an eBay DVD copy or something like that so I've never
22:10seen it on the big screen it's not you know in the highest of quality DVDs but it doesn't matter
22:15it's a fantastic film and I'd urge anyone to go and see it and would you say that you've obviously
22:23that you've grown up with it in many ways but do you get something out different out of it each
22:27time you watch it is it because you know sometimes you can change as you get older and you know with
22:33the film but the film can change as well in your apprehension do you sort of feel that it speaks
22:37to you in different ways through the different occasions that you watch it I think definitely
22:41because the film is so around your identity I think if you watch it at different points of your
22:47life you're going to associate two different parts of it so when I was reminiscing about this for
22:52this show I was re-reviewing some of the elements and I realized that actually at the end of the
22:57film Hedwig because finding her other half was too painful and she had people kind of used her a
23:04little bit throughout the telling of this story at the end she kind of decides that she doesn't need
23:09her other half she's strong on her own and back when I watched it you know when I was younger I
23:14didn't maybe pick up on that element but now I can appreciate that actually finding your identity is
23:19finding who you are as a person you don't need someone else to make you whole again brilliant
23:24well I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today but before we go if you live in Kent and
23:29want the chance to share four films of your choice reach out to us at KMTV and you might be invited
23:36in to be my next guest but for now many thanks to Stacey Bowles for joining us and being such a
23:41brilliant guest and many thanks to you all for tuning in until next time that's all from us goodbye