This week Chris Deacy is joined in the studio by Craig Adgie to discuss the films; The Fly, ET: The Extra-Terrestrial, Batman Returns, and Clueless.
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00:00Hello and welcome to Kent Film Club. I'm Chris Deasey and each week I'll be joined by a guest
00:18to dive deep into the impact certain films have had on their life. Each guest will reflect
00:23on the films which have meant the most to them over the years. And every week there
00:27will be a Kent Film Trivia where we quiz you at home about a film that has a connection
00:32to the county. And now let me introduce you to my guest for this week. He is currently
00:37studying with the Actors Lounge in Canterbury and is a screenwriter from Sittingbourne.
00:43He is Craig Adjaye. Great to have you on the show Craig. Yeah, pleased to be here Chris.
00:48And you've gone for Other Flies at David Cronenberg Classic. So when you say that you like films
00:56the difficult thing is, the first question everyone asks you, what's your favourite film?
01:00And it's always really hard to do because you're like, you're trying to, there's so
01:03many, the easy answer is there's so many I can't pick. If I had to pick, if there was
01:06a gun to my head, it would be The Fly by David Cronenberg. It's something that, again, it's
01:13a strange one because it kind of comes from my childhood. So it's not a film appropriate
01:18for children but I've had vivid memories of watching it. My dad renting it and watching
01:23it and being a bit like, what is this, what is, like, is this what films can be? Like,
01:29it kind of... Although I was a bit worried for a minute, when you said childhood memories
01:35I thought you were going to say that you'd been teleported. Yeah, I've been teleported
01:38and I thought, where's this one going? Yeah, old times when I teleported and transformed
01:43into a half man, half fly mutant. But no, thankfully that didn't happen. But yeah, so
01:48it was kind of something that kind of piqued my interest with cinema because it was kind
01:51of like, well, people watch horror movies, well, they make horror movies, they make disturbing
01:57films. They don't just make cartoons or films for children. They make adult scary movies
02:02and people like them as well. So what's that all about? So it kind of clued me into that.
02:06And it gets you, there's something about the subconscious. I actually had a very odd dream
02:12last night which was actually about the film that Cronenberg made after this with Jeremy
02:16Irons, The Dead Ring, two gynecologists who are twin brothers. So there is something here.
02:23It's like sci-fi. It's something nonsensical, but actually not that far really from, especially
02:30if this was, what, 86, in terms of what technology perhaps can do or yet will do. And I think,
02:38like you said, about the subconscious, that's kind of... I'm a very big fan of David Cronenberg
02:42because he kind of plugs directly into that. And I think that's part of why I like The
02:48Fly so much because it seems like a simple genre movie. It's a horror movie, it's quite
02:53straightforward, but... And it doesn't go... Some of the other movies go to quite out there.
02:58They go quite extreme in terms of, like, the narrative and... But The Fly is quite straightforward,
03:05but it has this kind of underlying undercurrent of... It plugs right into the subconscious
03:09about death and disease, and it's quite a powerful movie, I think.
03:13And also because he's quite this introverted character who forms this relationship, this
03:21slightly sort of off relationship, really, with Geena Davis. But of course, as he starts
03:26to mutate, to begin with, he seems actually sort of a more interesting person to her as
03:33a relationship partner. And then we start to see, obviously, that it's almost like he's
03:37had his moment of glory, but now it's downhill all the way as he disintegrates. And it's
03:43like a... In a way, it's a metaphor for a relationship as well as, as you say, death.
03:48And I think that's the kind of thing. That's what makes it... I think the more... As you
03:51get older and the more you watch it, it becomes even more powerful because it's a film about
03:54loss. Like you said, it's a film about the death of... Disease and death and decay. But
04:00it's also a film about the death of a relationship. And the thing that makes The Fly, I think,
04:05so powerful and such an emotional film is that kind of connection between Jeff Goldblum's
04:09character and Geena Davis. It feels really real.
04:13What I thought when I... Because it's the first David Cronenberg film that I saw. And
04:18I remember seeing it once at a video store. I was looking to purchase it. And I thought,
04:24oh, they haven't got it. And then I found it unexpectedly, or somebody found it for
04:27me, in the horror section. And this is the funny thing. I never saw it as a horror film.
04:31And I think it's precisely because I saw it as a relationship drama gone wrong.
04:36And that's what I think... Why I like it so much. Because I like writing. I like my own
04:42writing. I like genre pictures. I like sci-fi, horror. All sorts of things. But I like the
04:47fact that The Fly, and a lot of similar films on my list, they kind of go a bit deeper than
04:54that. They kind of plug into something a bit more subconscious. They go a bit harder than
04:58you normally would. I mean, obviously the thing about The Fly that is kind of most
05:02known is its gore effects. And it goes very hard into the violence and the gore. More
05:07than you would normally see in a big budget horror movie. Which again, is kind of Cronenberg's
05:11forte. The body's tearing apart and transformed inside out and things like that. So there's
05:17a lot of that coming. But like you said, what underpins it all, what gives it that power,
05:22unlike some of his other movies, is that relationship between the two characters. And the emotional
05:26depth of the characters, I think. Especially like, I want to talk about a little bit like
05:31Jeff Goldblum. Just because he's, I think it's his greatest performance. I think it's
05:37the kind of role that, ever since then, he's kind of been stuck in this role, I think,
05:42as the kind of quirky scientist character. But I think in this film, it becomes something
05:48more tragic and something more real than he normally gets the chance to play. And now
05:52he's kind of gone into that Jeff Goldblum stuff. But I think the fly, he really gets
05:57to act and show off his range as an actor. And I think it's a shame that we haven't seen
06:00him do a lot more than that. Well, it's time now to move on to your second chosen film,
06:05Craig. And you've gone for E.T. The Extra Terrestrial. Which I don't think has been
06:11picked before. Has it not? On Kent Film Club. See, that's one of the interesting things
06:16about it. Because it's strangely underrated and strangely forgotten for a film that was
06:23so massive. When I was growing up, I was a little bit later than when it came out. And
06:26then I've got a funny story about this and a bit of a confession. I was absolutely petrified
06:30of E.T. as a child. Absolutely petrified. You could show me a picture and I'd be running
06:36to the hills screaming. I was frightened of it. I remember watching it. My dad brought
06:40it home saying, it's a film about a spaceman. I was like, oh, that sounds interesting. And
06:43I watched it. And for some reason, it totally freaked me out. So for many, many years,
06:49this is getting into teenage years, I just refused to watch it. Until I forced myself
06:54to watch it being a young film fan and a Spielberg fan. I thought, well, I've got to try it.
06:59And it became one of my favourite movies. I think it's incredible. When you write, it's
07:03strangely not talked about as much. For a film that was so huge in terms of the zeitgeist
07:11for years, it's almost completely brushed under the carpet now, I think. I saw it at
07:16the cinema, actually, when it came out. And I'm not somebody who used to go to the cinema
07:20very much when I was young. And in a way, I suppose, parallels with The Fly in terms
07:26of dealing with something unknown, some alien creature. He's childish, childlike rather,
07:33but he's not human. And I suppose you could certainly say that about Jeff Goldblum's character
07:38in The Fly. But this taps into something primordial, doesn't it? Tell me what it is,
07:45because you've obviously given us a lot of thought.
07:49I think it's just, again, it's another simple movie. The plot is very simple and straightforward,
07:55almost like fairy tale-like. And there's not a lot of dialogue in the movie. That's one
08:01of the best things about it, I think, is it's very visual. It's one of Spielberg's best
08:04films in terms of directing and visual storytelling. But again, there's this very powerful undercurrent
08:10of it's that nexus point between you're a child and you're coming into the adult world.
08:16And the film's kind of got a lot of this reputation of being very sentimental and cheesy and over-emotional.
08:23But I think there's a lot of darkness and anxiety in there. Like I said, when I saw
08:28it, there's something frightening about it, because I think it's like a lot of good child
08:33movies. There's a hint of the darkness and the danger of the adult world underneath.
08:39Spielberg is good at finding something sentimental in any genre, even in Saving Private Ryan.
08:48There are moments of extraordinary humanity and he's adept at that. But, I mean, E.T.
08:57is totally cross-generational. I know people who weren't even born when this was made who
09:05sort of see this as this magical movie. I've been to the IMAX cinema to see it and there
09:10have been lots of children present. My own children have seen it and loved it. Do you
09:15think that Spielberg tapped into something that perhaps other filmmakers would really
09:21have struggled to do?
09:22I don't think so. A lot of film critics get a bit snooty about Spielberg. Like you said,
09:29he finds a sentimentality in everything. But I think if it was so easy, everyone would
09:35do it.
09:36Have you grown up with the movie? Because I'm guessing you saw it when you were young
09:39and you've perhaps followed it through.
09:42I think it's one of those things when you watch it and you enjoy it and you see it's
09:48fun because it empowers children. The children are heroes. You kind of see that in it and
09:52you kind of relate to that part of it. But again, as you get older, it hits even harder
09:56I think because it's a film about that nostalgia of childhood. It's really quite powerful the
10:06way he looks at the child's world. He films everything from the child's viewpoint. So
10:12everything's eye-level with the children for most of it. And all the adults are kind of
10:17a bit like Tom and Jerry. They're all out of frame and out of shot. It plugs you right
10:23into that world of the child. Nothing is more important than what's going on in my bedroom
10:28right now.
10:29I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're right because you've got the character Peter
10:32Coyote with the keys. And of course, they were children once, but it's almost as though
10:36from the children's viewpoint, the adults are the outsiders, but they're also dangerous.
10:44They're the authoritarians who are going to take away something that is precious. Effectively,
10:49they're going to steal their childhood.
10:50Yeah. And one of my favourite scenes and one of my favourite kind of twists in the story
10:55is what they do with Peter Coyote's character. For the first three quarters of the movie,
10:59he's shown as this... We don't see his face. He's in silhouette. He's the villain. He's
11:04the man that we should be frightened of. And then it comes to the highest emotional point
11:09where E.T.'s dying and he comes in and he's kind and gentle to E.T. And it is, again,
11:15that humanity of even the villain has humanity, even though not all adults are to be afraid.
11:21He doesn't quite get it, I don't think. He still wants to capture E.T. and he still wants
11:25to kind of experiment on him, but he doesn't quite get it. But he does offer E.T. kindness
11:29when he needs it.
11:30Well, that's about all the time we have for this first half of the show. However, before
11:34we go to the break, we have a Kent Film trivia question for you at home. Which film not
11:40only won the 2007 BAFTA for Best Cinematography, but also filmed right here in Kent? Was it
11:46A, Babel, B, United 93, or C, Children of Man? We'll reveal the answer right after this
11:53break. Don't go away.
12:05Hello, and welcome back to Kent Film Club. Just before the ad break, we asked you at
12:10home a Kent Film trivia question. Which film not only won the 2007 BAFTA for Best Cinematography,
12:18but also filmed right here in Kent? I asked, was it A, Babel, B, United 93, or C, Children
12:25of Man? And now I can reveal to you that the answer was, in fact, C, Children of Man. The
12:31production film that slipped through at the historic dockyard in Chatham as the setting
12:36for the rebel safe house. Did you get the answer right? Well, it is time now, Craig,
12:42to move on to your next chosen film. And I spot a theme here. Batman Returns.
12:47Yes. So, again, like I said, the theme is, again, these childhood memories of films that
12:52come out. And again, it's another film that is kind of for children. Batman is a comic
12:59book character. It's kind of for children. But in a lot of ways, it's really not for
13:02children. And I think the reason why I love it so much is, again, I watched it as a kid.
13:09And the bits that kind of stick out for me are like things with the penguin and some
13:13of the other kind of... There's these horror elements to it as well. For a film that's
13:18for children, there's quite dark horror elements to it.
13:21I actually saw it at the cinema when it came out. Because it's one of the first films I
13:25did see in the days when I didn't really go to the cinema. And at the time, I was still
13:30getting over the fact that I didn't see the first... I'd seen the first one, but not at
13:33the cinema. And it was the 1960s version of Batman, which was so different and so cheesy
13:39and camp. And then Tim Burton managed to make something that was gothic. It's a fairy tale,
13:46which we talked about in relation to the previous film. And just that sense that this was something
13:51a little bit nasty, a little bit... Well, let's put it this way. If it's a fairy tale,
13:57it's a very grown-up and really quite scary fairy tale.
14:01And I think, again, I seem to be attracted to those kind of things, like the simple story.
14:06And they're kind of like... The characters do have some depth into it, but there's these
14:12archetypes, isn't there, a lot of the time with these ones. And I just think, again,
14:16it's that adult... I don't think we'd ever see a blockbuster film like this again. It's
14:21kind of after Tim Burton did the first movie, and it was a huge success, he was kind of
14:25given his own ticket to ride for this one. So he put all the obsessions that he has.
14:31It's got the man-child hero. Again, Batman is this man, like I said, childlike figure.
14:36He lives alone. He's kind of socially awkward when he's Bruce Wayne, and he can only kind
14:39of connect with the world as Batman. And then we've got Penguin, who's kind of locked in
14:46his childhood trauma of being abandoned by his parents and forced to grow up in the sewer.
14:53And you've also got Catwoman, who's kind of this... She's kind of like the marginalised
14:57in society. She's this woman who's kind of in the world of men, and she's kind of abused
15:02and thrown aside by the world of men, and this is her kind of getting her revenge.
15:07I think that this, for me, struck a chord, because it was a superhero movie. I mean,
15:14these days, what I'm about to say is not going to sound remotely surprising, but they
15:17were, say, the misfits, the marginalised, those people on the edges of society, neurotic,
15:23schizophrenic, and also with, was it Oswald Cobblepot?
15:28Yeah, Oswald Cobblepot.
15:29Oswald Cobblepot. And he's running to be the mayor, the local politician, and all sorts
15:34of political analogies probably could be made. But just the idea of what a troubled childhood
15:41can bring out in adulthood. And I think it may be fantasy, but my goodness, when watching
15:47that, it felt that it resonated. Even with Catwoman, when she comes home and she says,
15:51Honey, I'm home. Oh, I just realised I'm not married. I remember watching that and thinking,
15:54ouch.
15:55There's real pain. Like I said, there's a real pain for these characters, and they're
16:00all kind of victims of some trauma or something that's happened to them, and they're kind
16:04of lashing out in different ways. Batman becomes a hero because there's a kind of morality
16:09to him, and there's a decency to him. Whereas Catwoman, and Catwoman's kind of in between
16:16the two. You've got Penguin, he's the extreme version, the one who wants to basically, I'm
16:21going to talk about it now, a person who wants to position a power to abuse that power to
16:26get revenge on the people that have marginalised him and hurt him in the past. And Catwoman
16:31is this, almost in between, which side does she go? Is she kind of a moral force? Is she
16:39going to go the way of the Penguin? And there's this kind of power play between the two. And
16:43then that becomes, like I said, it's almost like you feel sad for the villains as well.
16:48Like the ending, when he defeats the Penguin and Catwoman, it's not a triumph and it's
16:53sad. And Batman's left kind of alone and bereft, and the death of Penguin was probably one
16:59of our favourite scenes. It's played for, it's a tragedy.
17:03When you think about all those, in a different, like in a detective genre, think of the Columbo
17:07TV series. The idea is somebody does something bad, they're found out, they go to prison.
17:13And you have, it's a morality tale, we can rest easy. But in a film like this, you realise
17:17that you're dealing with trauma, you're dealing with victimhood. And as you say, even when
17:21there's a victory at the end, it's a very hollow, or at least, or transitory victory.
17:27Yeah, it's not, and it doesn't really, it's like you said, there's that idea of, like
17:32in comic books, there is that black and white thing, like baddies, goodies, defeat the baddies,
17:38the world will go back to normal. And in the Batman movies, it's kind of in Batman 1, but
17:43also mostly in Batman Returns as well, there is that kind of moral ambiguity that everyone's
17:50just a victim, good, bad, there's these shades of grey on both. And yeah, you can defeat
17:56them, but it won't end, like the sadness kind of carries on, the pain's left.
18:02Well, it is time now to move on to your final chosen film. And, oh, maybe a change of pace.
18:10Clueless.
18:11Yeah, so again, another change of pace. Yeah, so the other three movies, again, yeah, kind
18:16of variations on the theme, but I wanted to put in Clueless. And it's not as different
18:21as some of the others, but I'm a big sucker for romantic comedies. I love romantic comedies.
18:28They get a bad rep, again, because there's some bad examples of them, but I think when
18:32they're done well, they're brilliant. Like, I worked with Harry Met Sally, they're Notting
18:35Hill, all of that stuff, I really, really like that kind of thing. And it's part of
18:40a classic kind of genre, and for me, Clueless is my favourite. It's, I think, one of the
18:49things I think about it is that it could be very easy to be nasty. Like, Amy Heckling,
18:56the director, she wrote and directed the script, wrote and directed the film, but it would
19:01be very easy, you could see how it could go wrong, it could be very easy just to make
19:04fun of these kind of characters, they're kind of affluent, these Beverly Hill types, kind
19:09of shallow, and the young people, and like the kind of the younger generation with their
19:13own kind of words and catchphrases, it would be very easy to be kind of cynical and make
19:18fun of them, but I think there's a lot of sympathy and a lot of heart towards the characters,
19:23and they're not, they are real people, it does kind of tap into that, the emotions of
19:28the characters, so I kind of, that's one of the things I like about it.
19:31And as someone who read Jane Austen in school, I think it probably had to be pointed out
19:36to me that it was a variation on Jane Austen, but that's another angle as well, which works,
19:42that there's this sort of timeless story, but I mean, even though, I mean, it looks
19:44so dated, but at the time, it couldn't have been more it.
19:48Yes, exactly, and I think because they used phrases, like they would say, I think they
19:54invented a lot of those for the movie, I think, so they became phrases into the popular kind
20:00of lexicon, but I think they invented that for the movie, but it seems real, it seems
20:04believable, like they would kind of, because people, as we're getting older now, it's like
20:09the young people have their own language, and they're kind of, and it has a lot of fun
20:13with that, and I just think, yeah, like you said, it's Emma, I think it is, I've read
20:18Emma, but I think it's meant to be a remake of, like a modern version of Emma.
20:22That's right.
20:23So I think you said it's got that classic romance structure, and again, just the performances,
20:30I think Alicia Silverstone's, she should have become the biggest star on the planet, and
20:34it's a shame that she never quite kind of got there after this, her career kind of went
20:39away after this, but I think she, like, again, what makes it work is her comic timing, her
20:45emote, like she said, she makes Cher, the character, real and sympathetic and moving,
20:52and like, she's brilliant, and Paul Rudd's the love interest in it, and he's obviously
20:59gone on to much bigger things now, with like Ant-Man, and he's kind of famous, but he's
21:02brilliant as well in it, and I think one of the things I like about it is that often in
21:07romantic comedies, there's not a lot for men to get, in a way there's, the male characters
21:13are kind of these kind of, in our world, unlikable, they're dull, handsome kind of figures, and
21:18Paul Rudd in that film is actually like a love interest that men can like, he's kind
21:22of funny and sarcastic, and maybe a bit pretentious, but he's someone that you can sympathise with.
21:30And actually, thinking of the threads to all your films, they're all relationship dramas
21:33of sorts, I mean, Batman Returns is certainly that, or Twisted Away, E.T. is certainly a
21:38relationship between two people who are, perhaps, their differences actually become sort of
21:44swept away, and certainly In The Fly, as I said, I always saw it as a relationship drama,
21:51with a horror and sci-fi twist, but Clueless has all of those sort of elements of people
21:56fighting their way through the world, but in a way that you kind of feel is both of
22:02its time, but yes, it's timeless, but there's an element here, it's almost like, take away
22:08all the accoutrements, even looking at the mobile phones in what we're looking at on
22:12the screen, it's laughable now, but that seemed so trendy in 1995.
22:16And it kind of is a time capsule of the 90s, and even like, they talk about Christian Slater
22:21being the hottest actor, and things like that, things that we were like, ooh, like nowadays
22:24you'd be like, if you were showing it to a young person now, you'd kind of have to
22:27explain a lot of the things that they were referencing, but like you said, I think, I
22:32don't, when you said like, oh, it seems a bit of a change of pace, but for me, you're
22:35right, I think The Fly's got romantic comedy elements, they're kind of these two oddball
22:38characters meeting and flirting, and then again, E.T.'s not a romantic film in that
22:44way, but it is a love story between this boy and this alien, and then Batman returns, and
22:49I just think, I'll have to say that films, we like watching films about people falling
22:54in love, or forming relationships, and forming connections, so I just think that kind of
22:58plugs into that emotional connection that audiences have with films.
23:01And I think that's the magic of cinema, so there is something universal about it, there
23:06is something kind of, like I said, that plugs into that kind of, and it's very funny, it's
23:10just a funny movie, we talked about kind of the emotional thing, but I think it's a very
23:13funny comedy, and very hilarious, lots of quotable lines, and that kind of, people want
23:18to be entertained as well, so I think that's what all these movies, they're kind of twists
23:22on genre, but they deliver the genre goods that people want, they entertain.
23:25Well, I'm afraid that's all the time we have for today, but before we go, if you live in
23:30Kent, and want the chance to share four films of your choice, reach out to us at KMTV, and
23:35you might be invited in to be my next guest.
23:38But for now, many thanks to Craig Adjaye for joining us, and being such a brilliant guest,
23:43and many thanks to you all for tuning in.
23:45Until then, that's all from us.
23:47Goodbye!