In this no-holds-barred conversation, PMC co-founder Hugh Koh gets real about the state of streetwear today—has it gone mainstream, or is the culture still alive beneath the hype?
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00:00I think especially now, when we're at the 15-year mark, we want to be more global.
00:04That is like the plan moving forward.
00:06Some say streetwear is no longer street.
00:08It's just another form of mainstream fashion now.
00:10Do you agree or is there still an underground culture that's keeping it alive?
00:15Creatives like myself and many others there,
00:17we've always somewhat stayed true to what we're about, what we love, what we're doing.
00:21And that's still very much alive.
00:23And there's also a market for this.
00:25Yeah, definitely.
00:26Throughout the 15 years where even me and Al, we ask ourselves like,
00:29why are we still doing this?
00:30Are we still relevant?
00:31Asking those type of questions.
00:32Hype culture drives a demand, but it also creates a cycle of exclusivity and resale inflation.
00:39Do you think brands have a responsibility to make their products more accessible
00:43or is scarcity part of the game with brands that want to earn more from the resale value and inflation?
00:59We've got another guest today who is a part of a household brand name by this point,
01:05Pestle & Mortar Clothing.
01:07I'm going to say that again.
01:08Pestle & Mortar Clothing founder, Hugo.
01:12Thank you, Terry.
01:13Yes, that is correct.
01:14Pestle & Mortar Clothing.
01:15I love it.
01:15PMC.
01:16Do people sometimes mispronounce the name of the brand?
01:18Oh, all the time, man.
01:20You know, I think it's not a...
01:22I mean, it's something that you know and you see every day, right?
01:24Like, it's a tool that you have in every household, but I think when you look at it,
01:28you kind of wonder, like, how do you pronounce it?
01:30Right.
01:31Pestle or, you know, mortal.
01:34And you're not going to go with baju batu tumbuk, right?
01:37Yeah, I think we want the English word.
01:40Yeah.
01:40So that's why we just say PMC.
01:41PMC, got it.
01:42You know, when we find out or learn about people who are in this world, in the world of apparel,
01:50in the world of fashion, in the world of clothing, you always wonder, how does it start?
01:55Where does it begin, right?
01:55What kind of child were you growing up?
01:58Yeah, I think, you know, obviously, having been in fashion for a while now, I do come
02:04from a creative background.
02:06I think from a very young age, right?
02:07Like, cultivated.
02:09I think also in that entrepreneurship sort of, like, journey.
02:12Yeah.
02:12Dad, similarly, you know, to myself, had his own architecture firm.
02:16Right.
02:16And he was always doing it very subtly, but I kind of realized maybe, like, you know,
02:21much later on in my life, like, hey, everything was intentional.
02:24Yeah.
02:24He'll bring me to the office.
02:26Even my brother had his own business.
02:28Yeah.
02:28So I think it was very natural when we kind of said, like, hey, we wanted to kind of start
02:32this business.
02:32He was very supportive, and the family was.
02:34So I think that definitely helped.
02:36And in terms of fashion, that mostly came from more of just a passion thing.
02:40But I was always, like, a creative person at heart.
02:43Hated anything, you know, math.
02:46Right.
02:47Science.
02:48But when you first started, you were an architect?
02:51I was, yeah.
02:51So I studied architecture.
02:52I wasn't an architect, but I studied architecture.
02:55I never finished.
02:58Because Pestlund wanted to do well?
03:00Well, yeah, I guess you could say that, you know.
03:01And I think I definitely enjoyed that a lot more.
03:04But I was, the early days, I was sort of, like, juggling both of, you know, both sides
03:08of it and kind of testing it out.
03:09Right.
03:10And I kind of realized that, hey, you know, I really want to kind of pursue this 100%.
03:13Was there a particular moment, you know, or experience in your childhood or early life
03:18that kind of shaped your worldview or kind of approach to life?
03:23To life?
03:24Well, that's a deep question, man.
03:25It really is, right?
03:26I think, I mean, when it comes to fashion itself, like, why fashion?
03:30I think a lot of people, you know, they've sort of asked me, like, you know, why start
03:32a fashion label?
03:34And I think it really stems from passion, you know.
03:37I think as young kids, sort of growing up in high school, always been into a lot of
03:41these different, like, subculture.
03:43So subculture like skateboarding, you know, art, you know, music, rock.
03:49So, and a lot of our heroes as well, the things that they were wearing.
03:53And we were just consumers, you know.
03:56We used to buy a lot of stuff from America.
03:57Like, we were like, hey, you know, why don't we kind of start our own thing?
04:01I mean, we can resonate with these things, but, you know, to a certain extent, right?
04:04So why don't we create something that is truly about us and what we want to wear?
04:09Right.
04:09But did you know that you were going to work with the people that you ended up working with?
04:13Yeah.
04:13So I've got partners in the business.
04:15One of it being, well, Arnold.
04:18Arnold, who is XXAstro.
04:20That's right.
04:20You used it for HITS.
04:22Yes, that's correct.
04:23Breakfast Show, now in Japan.
04:24That is correct, yeah.
04:25That's right.
04:25Hitting a lot of sushi and doing nothing else.
04:27That's right.
04:28Yeah, I should actually kind of bring him and maybe we should do some expansion to Japan.
04:33Heard that.
04:33I like that.
04:34Yeah.
04:35And his younger brother.
04:37So three of us, we kind of started it.
04:40And I think even the earlier days, you know, really sort of like going back many years.
04:46I still remember when I was like 16 and we were like Form 3.
04:49We were already talking about starting this thing.
04:51Oh.
04:52And it was with some other friends.
04:53Yeah, when we were 16.
04:54Wow.
04:55But I mean, back then, what did we know, right?
04:57We didn't have any money.
04:58I think back then we even built a website.
05:00It was on HTML.
05:02But nothing quite materialized.
05:04So sort of like fast forward five, six, eight years.
05:09And then we kind of said, sat down at the mamak and said, you know, want to do this?
05:12Right.
05:13Yeah.
05:13Who started that conversation?
05:16Arnold and his brother was already talking about starting something.
05:18And I just came and, you know, asked them and they were like, we're thinking the same
05:22thing.
05:22So let's do it.
05:24Was there like a defining moment where you realized this is what you wanted to do?
05:29This was the path you wanted to take?
05:30Or was it all a collection?
05:31Yeah.
05:32No, definitely not.
05:33But I think we never intended it to, we never like thought it through.
05:37I think at that age, we were like, we just wanted to start and just have fun.
05:40Yeah.
05:41We never thought that 15 years later, we'll still be doing it or, you know, Paso Lomoda
05:45would be where it is today.
05:46You know, having done all these collaborations, having traveled, having met all these people.
05:50Definitely not.
05:51But I think back then was really try and see and see what happens.
05:56And look at what has happened.
05:57Yeah.
05:58Yeah.
05:58It's a really crazy, crazy journey.
06:00Right.
06:01Yeah.
06:01Do you, do you feel something now when you think, when you think about the path that
06:07you've been on?
06:08Definitely.
06:08Definitely.
06:09Obviously the journey has had like lots of ups and downs, but definitely more ups, man.
06:14And I think, you know, really looking back, I wouldn't give it or trade it for anything
06:18else.
06:19Like the amount of doors it's open, the amount of opportunities that is presented, experiences.
06:25Right.
06:25I mean, from a monetary standpoint, obviously I think there's always like room for that.
06:29But I think the fulfillment, right?
06:31The fulfillment really in terms of, I really enjoy what I do.
06:36And, you know, the team as well, that's what we really sort of strive for.
06:40And PMC started at a time when Malaysian streetwear wasn't quite as established, right?
06:45What was it?
06:46That is correct.
06:46Like trying to build a brand in that space back then.
06:50Yeah.
06:50Yeah.
06:51Yeah.
06:51I think, yeah, that was actually, actually timing was, we were actually very lucky because
06:56I think the earlier years before that, I think it was still very sort of like look to the
07:02West for a lot of the brands.
07:04Obviously Malaysia itself didn't have much choice.
07:07But when we started back in 2010, there were a couple of other friends who, who, who had
07:11brands, so that was cool to see, but nothing like what it is today.
07:15And there was a wave of, Hey, you know, like I want to be able to support Malaysia.
07:20I want to support, you know, something that, that I can resonate with, you know, compared
07:25to another brand.
07:25So I think that was sort of like that time was kind of perfect for us.
07:30Like there was a wave where people were supporting Malaysian products.
07:35Yeah.
07:35And that was just by coincidence.
07:36We didn't plan it or whatnot or anything along those lines.
07:39And when we started that, just people supported.
07:42Right.
07:42Yeah.
07:42But what definitely wasn't a coincidence though, would be the beginning where you needed
07:48to get attention as well.
07:50Right.
07:50So what were some of the scrappiest, most unconventional things that you did to get PMC
07:58off the ground?
07:59I think, well, this part, I got to give Arnold credit lah, right?
08:02Because, I mean, back then Arnold was in, also within, not radio, but video production.
08:08The entertainment scene.
08:09Yeah.
08:09The entertainment scene.
08:10So he, at that point of time, he was doing ATV Quickie.
08:12Yeah.
08:13So a lot of access to, you know, local celebrities.
08:16And I think Malaysia, in terms of the network of Kuala Lumpur itself, the network is small.
08:21Yep.
08:21So, you know, once you're kind of in that scene, people just tend to kind of support you.
08:27Right.
08:28You know, the early days, like we even had people like Henry Golding, man.
08:32I mean, look where he is like now, right?
08:33Right.
08:34Back then, he was like selling t-shirts out of like our car boot.
08:36Right.
08:37With his, like good memories.
08:39Good memories that way.
08:40Bring him back.
08:42No, I call him and say, who's that?
08:43Right.
08:43Here's a little behind the scenes thing.
08:47At one point, I know that Henry Golding were actually housemates.
08:50That's correct.
08:50They were housemates.
08:51Yeah.
08:52I don't know if I'm supposed to share that, but I am sharing it.
08:55It's fine.
08:56It's fine.
08:56He was helping Henry Golding pay for the bills.
08:59Yes, that is correct.
09:01That is correct.
09:02Now, you mentioned about how Anu was a big part of it, but I think the designs initially
09:06was such a big part as well.
09:07Even until now, when I mentioned the Pestle and Mortar clothing brand, one of the things
09:13people will say is, yeah, the Nasi Lemak shirt brand.
09:17Yeah.
09:17It's always been about like culture and heritage.
09:20I think that's one of the main questions that we asked ourselves before we started was
09:24like, what is going to set us from the million of brands out there, right?
09:27And I think at the end of the day, it's really the experiences, it's really about who we are.
09:34And we want to be able to kind of showcase that.
09:36So storytellers, think of like, you want to be able to tell stories and our canvas of
09:39choice is clothing.
09:41So, and that's how we, that's what we wanted to create, like things like you said, the Nasi
09:46Lemak.
09:47We spoke about different things like the flats in Kuala Lumpur.
09:51We spoke about the roti men and all these are very iconic things, right?
09:56Where if you are overseas and you look at that, you go like, eh, Malaysian, ah, you
10:00know, or like, eh, you know, I've eaten that.
10:02Oh my goodness.
10:03Like that's me goreng, you know?
10:04So that's, that's what I wanted to create.
10:06We want to create like spark conversation through our clothes.
10:10Right.
10:10And, and that was really sort of like the driving force behind the brand, you know,
10:13and even till today, that's what we, that's the way that we still kind of showcase it.
10:18But obviously trends have changed, look and feel have changed, but ideally the core
10:22and the DNA is always going to be that.
10:24Right.
10:24So, yeah.
10:25And you've also done collaborations like in 2018, you did a collaboration with Royal
10:30Slangor, blended heritage, pewter craftsmanship with contemporary streetwear, right?
10:34What insights that you gain from merging traditional artistry with modern fashion?
10:39Yeah.
10:40Yeah.
10:40How do you balance that authentic cultural representation with global appeal in, in
10:45your collections?
10:46Like how do you...
10:46So, so I think, uh, you know, first up just to maybe a little bit of introduction about
10:51that collaboration, like Royal Slangor, I mean, this was like, like you mentioned, Derry,
10:56I think easily, how many years ago was it?
10:57Yeah.
10:582018, right?
10:59So it was sometime back, but it was one of our most iconic ones and what kind of like
11:03started the wave for a lot of the other partnerships that we did.
11:06Uh, but for Royal Slangor, that is, that, that is also a collaboration, which is kind of
11:11like really close to my heart because number one, like two Malaysian brands.
11:15Number two, both brands are from different eras completely.
11:19Right.
11:19Royal Slangor is over a hundred years old, like fourth generation run.
11:22And, and personal motor at a point of time was less than 10 years or maybe five years
11:26in or six years in, um, and coming together.
11:29Right.
11:29And I think for Royal Slangor, the way that we knew it was like, oh, that brand that my
11:33dad buys like future gifts thing and gives it as corporate gifts lah.
11:37Right.
11:37So I think for them as well, they wanted to see what that was like if it was reimagined
11:42by a younger sort of a brand like PMC.
11:46And for us, I think a lot of it was also to respect, uh, and pay homage to the legacy
11:52that they've built, the artistry or even the artisanal sort of, uh, you know, discipline
11:58that a lot of these, uh, craftmans that, that work within Royal Slangor, how do we sort
12:02of tell that?
12:03So we were given access to like a hundred year old, um, sort of archive library of designs.
12:09Wow.
12:10And we were like looking through the logos and a lot of it is what we depict on the design.
12:13And, uh, we even had like pewter buttons.
12:16We even had like, you know, some of the texture of like the pocket was also in like the hand
12:20finish of how they normally knock the pewter sort of like tin cups and whatnot.
12:25I think Royal Slangor as well, that's a more sort of like premium market, not cheap.
12:29So the shirts at that point of time, we were selling it with the pewter buttons, like
12:32six, 700 ringgit.
12:34Yeah.
12:34We were like showcasing that at Pavilion when they had the store right at the entrance
12:37back in the day.
12:38Right.
12:39Um, so it was, it was great.
12:41Like collaborations like this are.
12:43Always very interesting to see how brands like merge or, or marry their, their different
12:50identities, right?
12:51Like when it comes to collaborations, what, what do you look at and, and is there a process
12:55that you go through before even deciding that you would collaborate with someone?
12:59I think, I think number one is synergy.
13:01Um, I think for us, we want to be able to tell great stories.
13:04Uh, so a lot of times that's what we try to look for.
13:07Um, I think second of all, similar to like the business itself, uh, we need to be passionate
13:12about it, you know, is it a brand that we're a fan of, uh, do we, you know, support, do
13:16we buy their products, uh, you know, things like that.
13:19So, um, and, and I think most importantly, I think, I think especially now when we're at
13:26the 15 year mark, we, we want to be more global.
13:29That is like the plan moving forward.
13:31So even for that now, like a lot of these local collaborations that we've done, partnerships
13:35have somewhat lined away and, uh, sort of like leading us to, to reach out and tell
13:40stories outside of Malaysia.
13:42Right.
13:42And that's what you're going to be seeing a lot of, uh, over the next decade.
13:45Okay.
13:46Over the next decade.
13:47Well, I mean, that's plan.
13:48Wow.
13:48That's a good plan.
13:50That's right.
13:51Now, also as co-founder of Atlas Collective, a sustainable running brand targeting the
13:57Middle East and European markets.
13:58Interesting.
13:59What's inspired this, its creation and how does it differentiate itself in the athletic
14:04apparel industry?
14:05Yeah.
14:05So, so similar like PMC, Atlas Collective, uh, still a very new baby.
14:10Uh, we started it two years ago, uh, just, just before COVID actually.
14:14So, um, my, my wife prior to that was, uh, actually based in Dubai.
14:19So I was going there quite a bit and I think just through Pestle and Moda, just like reach
14:23out to different people.
14:24And that's where I actually met my now partner.
14:26Oh, okay.
14:27Uh, for Atlas Collective and he's a German national, uh, but living in, living in Dubai
14:33for many years already.
14:34And we, we just instantly connected and we became friends and a big part of it was that
14:39we were going out for a lot of runs together.
14:41And that was something that I was very passionate about.
14:43I'm very sort of like sports savvy.
14:44I like sports and I run a lot.
14:47So, you know, both of us, that's how we connected.
14:49Yeah.
14:50And we were like, Hey, why don't we do something?
14:52Right.
14:53And I think again, for like Atlas Collective, a lot of it is inspired by our streetwear
14:58roots.
14:59And that is what kind of sets it apart.
15:00Yeah.
15:01I mean, you mentioned some of the keywords like sustainability.
15:03That's also another big brand pillar, uh, for the brand.
15:07But I think in this day and age, it is a given, like everyone is like moving in that direction.
15:13Obviously the education is, is needed, but in Europe, that is something it's expected
15:18from you.
15:18Right.
15:19So, you know, that is something that Atlas Collective is doing.
15:21It's supposed to be baked into the brand.
15:22That is correct.
15:23And I think Atlas Collective as well, it really sort of like, it's a name itself, right?
15:28Like Atlas, the Atlas world map.
15:30That's what we want.
15:31When people say, where's the Atlas brand from?
15:33We always say, well, the founders, myself, I'm based in Malaysia, but, and Ben's based
15:37in Dubai, but we have, we are a collective of people all over the world.
15:41Right.
15:41So say for example, we've got like, we support run clubs in like Melbourne, Australia.
15:45We've got, we're supporting, we're doing events in like Chile.
15:49We're also supporting like a run club in Mexico.
15:52Right.
15:52So it's all over.
15:53If you go to like social media, that's what you see.
15:55You won't only be seeing content coming from one location, but it is, that is what one
16:00want to kind of build into like a sort of like global initiative.
16:03Right.
16:03All reading the same thing.
16:05There seems to be a similarity between how you personally actually involve yourself in
16:11business, because when it comes to PMC, you started it with two hundred
16:15friends.
16:16Yeah.
16:16Right.
16:16And then with Atlas Collective, it again is the baby barn of what was initially a friendship
16:21that you, that you just hit it off with someone, right?
16:25With Ben.
16:26Yeah.
16:26So do you see, is that something that you value in the way you go into business?
16:30I think, I think, I think definitely a lot more sort of emotional person.
16:34I think that's just me like, and that's what I know.
16:38Right.
16:39So yeah.
16:40Some people would say choosing to go into business with your friends is a bad idea.
16:44Right.
16:44But you found a way to make it work and successful.
16:48Yeah.
16:49I mean, obviously it's, it's not all, you know, rainbows and butterflies.
16:53Definitely.
16:53There are a lot of times that we argue and we challenge the other, but I think that's
16:57important, right?
16:58We're never going to see eye to eye.
16:59And I think that is also what kind of keeps pushing each of us to, to always, you know,
17:05strive.
17:05I think at the end of the day, we all want the same thing for the brand.
17:09So as long as the intentions are there, that's fine.
17:12Right.
17:12We clash, we, we make out.
17:14How do you do it?
17:15We move forward.
17:16Is there, do you set ground rules?
17:17Do you set ground rules before anything even happens?
17:19Like if something happens is what we're going to deal with?
17:21I mean, obviously for like partners and stuff like that, we do have, you know, we, we,
17:26we do have like a contract in place that, you know, this sort of like state to at least
17:30like you mentioned, sort of like guidelines.
17:33If things do get messy, I think that's always very important regardless of how close you
17:37are.
17:38I think second of all is that we're all very transparent.
17:41We say it as is.
17:42We don't sugarcoat things.
17:43So if we're unhappy, we talk about it.
17:45But I think what's important is about being respectful and the way that we communicate,
17:50right?
17:50Right.
17:50So everyone's given a platform to, to communicate.
17:53You go five minutes, then I go five minutes.
17:55If you can't decide, we're being someone else on board too.
17:58Well, you must decide something right because the proof is in the pudding.
18:02It would seem right.
18:02Like how well the brands are doing now.
18:05With sustainability becoming increasingly crucial, how are PMC and Atlas Collective integrating
18:10eco-friendly practices into their design, production, you know, distribution processes?
18:16Yeah.
18:16So for Atlas, definitely we've gotten a lot of practice, you know, with that brand.
18:22Um, so all our factories that we work with, obviously certifications, that's what we look
18:27for, uh, you know, from, uh, from not only from a material standpoint, you know, be it
18:34like recycled polyester that we're using.
18:36We're using like eco-friendly sort of like organic cotton.
18:39We're using like bamboo fabrics.
18:41Uh, so that is like on the fabric front, but even from like a dyeing process front, uh, from a factory
18:47sort of, uh, worker front as well, making sure that, you know, proper sort of like labor, uh, guidelines are in place.
18:55Right.
18:56Uh, so it was sweatshops.
18:58Yeah.
18:58No sweatshops.
18:59Yeah.
18:59I think, uh, for Atlas, because we do sell outside of Malaysia, we, and we, we sell it
19:04for a higher price.
19:05It's easier.
19:06But I think for Pestle and Moda, because it's still majority local market, I think Malaysians,
19:12there still needs to be a lot more education.
19:14Right.
19:14I think people are still very sort of like price sensitive.
19:16Uh, so I think that is going to take time, but I think with what we're doing with Atlas,
19:21we're trying to move a lot of like those, uh, practices that we're currently practicing
19:25there, um, to also PMC.
19:27Do you see progress happening?
19:29Uh, slowly, slowly.
19:31Yeah.
19:32Because like you said, in the, in the international market, it seems like it's much more appreciated.
19:36Definitely.
19:37Right.
19:37Because do you feel it may be because of the local spending, um, power of the, of the people
19:45that is a reflection of what they're willing to pay for?
19:48Um, I think definitely that's one part of it.
19:51Like, um, yeah, uh, your, your disposable income, right?
19:55Uh, that definitely plays a big role.
19:57Yeah.
19:57So I think we still got a lot of work to be done.
20:00Uh, but, but, um, but yeah, I mean, that is the direction I want to head towards.
20:05I don't think it's an overnight thing, but it will require some time.
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21:14So, bearing this in mind, how do you navigate that fine line between staying true to your
21:20passion and ensuring that your brands remain commercially sustainable?
21:26Because that all plays a role in the longevity, right?
21:30Sure, yeah.
21:30I mean, the way that we look at it is very different compared to when it was a three-man
21:35team.
21:35I mean, right now, the team's obviously a lot bigger.
21:38We have mouths to feed.
21:39There's a lot of responsibility on our shoulders.
21:42So, definitely, I think that whole business aspect of it, you know, boiled down to the
21:49sustainability of the business financially.
21:53That's a big part.
21:55So, you know, that's all, obviously, that's how I've transitioned as a person as well,
21:59where when I first started off, obviously, a lot more sort of like creative focus.
22:02But right now, my job is to take care of people and also like just the overall direction of
22:09the business and the health of the business.
22:11So, that is what I'm kind of focusing on.
22:13And the creative stuff, there are a lot more creative people, you know, compared to me now
22:18who are sort of like running that part of the brands.
22:20Was that an easy transition for you to...
22:23No, I think it took time.
22:25It takes time.
22:27You know, having been doing this now for 15 years and we're, to be completely honest,
22:31there have been times, you know, throughout the 15 years where even me and Alan, we ask
22:35ourselves like, why are we still doing this?
22:36Are we still relevant?
22:37You know, asking those type of questions, right?
22:40What's the answer?
22:41The answer to it is that, number one, like, you know, are we still...
22:45Do we still want to do it?
22:46I think the answer to that is yes.
22:48Yeah.
22:48We want to be able to kind of do it.
22:49But I think we need to understand that, yeah, things are moving and we need to evolve,
22:59right?
22:59It's really evolve or die.
23:01And I think for us as well, like, my own style, when we first started off, what we
23:06liked and what we like now is different.
23:08And I think it should reflect that as well.
23:10And a lot of times it's about resonating, you know, having the brand resonate with like-minded
23:16people like ourselves.
23:18It's interesting that you bring that up because some say streetwear, some say streetwear is
23:22no longer street.
23:24It's just another form of mainstream fashion now.
23:26Do you agree or is there still an underground culture that's keeping it alive?
23:31Because it was like you mentioned earlier even that it was mostly related to a subculture.
23:35Sure.
23:36Right?
23:36A little bit more niche sort of thing.
23:38I think definitely a lot more accessible these days.
23:41I think especially with like, you know, social media and the internet and online shopping.
23:48You know, back then when you wanted to buy something, you can't buy it online.
23:51You have to go to the shop, right?
23:53Yeah.
23:53So, you have to like, go to the States, whether it be a pair of shoes, whether it be, you know,
23:57a particular t-shirt that you wanted or a brand.
23:59Yeah.
23:59So, right now a lot more accessible.
24:02But with that being said, I think it's good.
24:05You know, I think this is just the general progression.
24:08And in terms of streetwear itself, I think there was a point in the time where it was like
24:14extremely hype and a lot of like these big sort of, you know, brands were, I guess you
24:21could kind of say maybe taking advantage of it.
24:23They kind of see like, okay, there is money to be made here.
24:26I think for them at the moment, like they've been trying to milk that and obviously the
24:31appeal has dropped.
24:32Yeah.
24:33So, a lot of them are kind of moving away from that.
24:35But I think creatives like, you know, myself and many others there, like the smallest sort
24:39of brands, we've always somewhat like, you know, stayed true to what we're about,
24:43what we love, what we're doing and we want to, and that's still very much alive.
24:48Right.
24:48And there's also a market for them.
24:50There is.
24:50Yeah, definitely.
24:51Definitely.
24:52You touched on, you just talked about it.
24:54In fact, you just mentioned it, people taking advantage, right?
24:58Hype culture drives a demand, but it's also, it also creates a cycle of exclusivity and
25:04resale inflation.
25:06Do you think brands have a responsibility to make their products more accessible or is scarcity
25:12part of the game with brands that want to earn more from the resale value and inflation?
25:19I think for me, my personal opinion, that would be, I still believe in, you know, not
25:24flooding the market.
25:25I think even for us as well, we have, you know, making sure that within our lines that
25:31we create, we have items which are accessible all year long, you know, but there are certain
25:36pieces that we really want to keep it exclusive.
25:38Like, we want to be able to say like, hey, I've got this jacket, you know, you don't.
25:42Yeah.
25:43I think that's always the fun bit of it, right?
25:45When you go out there and you really want something, but you can't get it.
25:48And the day that you get it, that is, that feeling is difficult to describe.
25:52Yeah.
25:53And I think a lot of times that is, you know, it's relating back to this industry that
25:58we've been in.
25:59Yeah.
25:59That's been a big sort of like driving force.
26:02Right.
26:02So in this case, you can, you can actually have it both ways.
26:05You can have both the items that are readily available.
26:09And then within that, you will have the collections that are more collectible.
26:15Yes, exactly.
26:16Exactly.
26:17Do you find that in PMC's case, there is a huge number of people who really appreciate
26:24the collections?
26:27No, for sure.
26:27Yeah, for sure.
26:28I mean, we've got our loyal supporters who, you know, I'm internally sort of like grateful
26:31for, and they've been following the brand.
26:34Yeah.
26:34So, you know, there are certain pieces out there whenever we release, you know, people
26:38really want to sort of jump on that.
26:41But we also have like the other items, which is like, yeah, you know, it's there and, you
26:44know, you're creating different type of items for different people in the market.
26:48So maybe if you're new to PMC, okay, you know, these type of items are a little more
26:53friendly.
26:53But, you know, if you've been following the brand, if you are digging deeper into the
26:57history of the brand, what we're all about, then there are these other pieces.
27:00So all of that, it's also engineered and very intentional compared to like, oh, let's
27:04just put out a collection for the sake of it.
27:06Right.
27:06I think that especially, that is how we've been doing it like right now, being very intentional
27:14with the kind of products.
27:16And that's also like sustainability, you know, making sure that we're not just putting
27:20out product for the sake of putting out product.
27:22Right.
27:22I mean, how many t-shirts can you own, right?
27:24That's true.
27:25How many hoodies or how many pieces?
27:27Yeah.
27:28That's a good point.
27:28Has it ever surprised you by how much your fans of the brand appreciate the brand?
27:37Yeah, yeah, definitely.
27:38And I think that's a sort of like a big driving force of why we're still doing it.
27:44Yeah.
27:45You know, they'll come to our parties, they'll come to our events and say like, hey, you
27:48know, love what you guys are doing.
27:49Like, how did you guys do it?
27:50You know, they want to learn.
27:52I think for me, we've been very lucky throughout the 15 years.
27:56Because a lot of people have given us opportunities and a platform to kind of showcase the work
28:01that we do and what we love.
28:03So I think similarly, that's something where I've kind of, you know, for myself, I want
28:07to be able to kind of give back.
28:09Yeah.
28:09So when people kind of, you know, come to me and say like, I'm always happy to share,
28:15always happy to point them in the right direction.
28:16Right.
28:17And yeah.
28:19And given what you're just saying now, in fact, like, you know, sharing with people and
28:24appointing them in the right direction, drawing from your entrepreneurial journey, what key
28:30advice would you offer to individuals looking to establish their own fashion brands, especially
28:35in the current local and global landscape?
28:38Oh, the current local and global landscape.
28:42America.
28:43America.
28:44I think, I think, I think especially for people thinking about doing it, I think, you know,
28:48no regrets, right?
28:49Like, if you want to do it, just go ahead and do it.
28:50I think a lot of times people try to maybe overthink or, you know, try to plan, like you
28:57can never get everything 100%.
28:59I think obviously you do need to plan.
29:02But once you kind of have that, just go out there and gun for it.
29:05I think we learn along the way.
29:07Right.
29:07And I think that's similarly for us.
29:09But the worst is that, you know, think otherwise where you kind of say like, oh, maybe, maybe
29:16it won't work out or like, oh, maybe I shouldn't.
29:18But so I would say go for it.
29:20That's number one.
29:21And I think second of all is that for a lot of brands that I see out there, they somewhat
29:26plan or they always have this intention of like, okay, I'm going to dump all my money,
29:30all my resources into like this collection.
29:32And hopefully it sells out and use that money to roll.
29:35Right.
29:35It's not the case.
29:36Like, I mean, obviously there have been success cases, but I would say the other 99%,
29:41you need that constant, you know, it's a hit and miss, right?
29:47Yeah.
29:48So that first collection may not be the one that really, you know, gets you out there
29:52or creates that momentum for you, but perhaps that second or third.
29:55So think about that already and have that kind of lined up.
29:58Like, okay, if you're going to start something, this is the plan for the year.
30:02Right.
30:02It's not just a one-off collection.
30:04Right.
30:04Is it because in some cases people go into it thinking only of how lucrative it is and
30:10not thinking, and not so much having the passion, but more guided and they are pushed
30:17forward by their want or need for making money?
30:21I mean, I'm sure there are people, you know, who obviously look at it from a monetary standpoint
30:26and that's fine to each their own, right?
30:28But I think a lot of times there are passion, where that really sort of thrives is that when
30:34you're in a rut, when you're really sort of like challenged, I think that is what's
30:39going to get you out of it, compared to just surrendering.
30:42And yeah, put your hands up and go like, ah, screw this.
30:44I think I had enough.
30:45And there have been moments like that.
30:46Of course.
30:47Yeah.
30:47Many, many moments, you know, where we're like, oh, so tired.
30:51How do you personally deal with those moments?
30:53Because like you said, there are many, right?
30:56How do you, what keeps you going?
30:57Other than passion, what do you, how do you manage?
31:00I think, and this is something which has been cultivated over time.
31:04Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm 40 now and I think it comes with age.
31:07So it's reflection.
31:09It's, uh, gratitude.
31:11It is, uh, just the way that I kind of live my life these days.
31:13So a lot of reflection because like time these days is like super quick, like bang, bang,
31:18bang, like, you know, next, what's the next thing?
31:20What's the next thing?
31:21But when you kind of stop back, stop, look back and reflect on that journey and go like,
31:28hey, you know what?
31:29Yes, I am in this rut right now, but look at all these other amazing things which has happened.
31:34You know, so, um, so spending a little bit more time being more reflective with, uh,
31:40with yourself.
31:41So I've got like a, you know, daily sort of, uh, program, especially I'm a morning person
31:46as well.
31:47So I kind of do all that kind of gets me started for the day and squat there.
31:51Do you know yourself?
31:52Yeah.
31:52Conquer things.
31:53Yeah.
31:53I think it comes with time.
31:54Right.
31:55Yeah.
31:55So have you, if, if you compare the person you are now with the person who started,
32:00how, how big is that difference?
32:02How jarring is the difference?
32:03I think, I think he was, you know, my, my core is the same.
32:06I'm, um, I would like to think of myself as, you know, fun, a little bit carefree, a little
32:11bit, uh, a little bit risk taker.
32:14Uh, but, but, but there is definitely that, that other aspect now, which has been cultivated,
32:19which is like, like I said, right?
32:21Like this team that I need to take care of.
32:24Yeah.
32:24So having to, to think about that.
32:26Right.
32:27Um, I'm also married.
32:28So there's also that family aspect.
32:30Parents are getting older.
32:32So there is that responsibility as well.
32:34Um, and all this leads into the way you manage the company.
32:39Yeah, for sure.
32:40Yeah.
32:40Yeah.
32:41Yeah.
32:41Yeah.
32:41Definitely in the way that I live my life.
32:43Can't be, uh, yeah.
32:44Can't be too crazy like these days.
32:46Gotta take it easy and make sure everything's a good balance.
32:49It's for the better though, right?
32:50It is for the better.
32:51Yeah.
32:51It is.
32:51Yeah.
32:51I can't imagine, uh, yeah.
32:53Going back to my old lifestyle.
32:55Right.
32:55Okay.
32:56Um, you know, given the rapid evolution of fashion trends and consumer preferences, where
33:02do you see the streetwear industry hitting in the next five years?
33:06And how is PMC positioning itself to adapt?
33:10I think first up, like, like I mentioned, uh, in terms of the way it's presented, I think
33:15that always has to change.
33:16That always has to evolve.
33:17I mean, the DNA of the brand is always gonna, you know, stay the same because that's who
33:21we are.
33:21Um, so I think for us, number one is obviously a lot of it balls to the team because I'm not
33:27on the ground as I used to be.
33:29So I'm having to kind of be dependent on, you know, my team these days, which, you know,
33:33majority of them are within that 25 sort of age group, 25 to 30 age group.
33:37So they still have the energy.
33:39They're still out there, you know, partying, seeing things, going for events.
33:42Right.
33:42Um, and I think a lot of, uh, what you see, you know, coming out from the brand is, is
33:49them.
33:49It's not Hugh anymore.
33:51I mean, Hugh obviously has a part to play, but the idea is that, you know, Pestle and
33:56Moda is, is not just the founders itself, but really the team.
34:00So that is, uh, and that's what they're kind of feeding out.
34:03And that's how we've been sort of addressing it.
34:05Right.
34:06Yeah.
34:06It's like learning to allow the ideas to come in also from the, the younger.
34:12Yeah.
34:13New blood.
34:13Yeah.
34:14There is a certain stereotype of people in their twenties that seems to be propagated
34:23sometimes.
34:24And it's said over and over again about their, um, attitude towards work.
34:29Yeah.
34:29Do you see it in your team?
34:30I think, uh, yeah, in terms of the way that I sort of like speak to the team members, obviously,
34:35I think that's changed compared to the way when I was interning in my previous firms,
34:41you know, growing up as a kid.
34:42Uh, yeah.
34:43Very different.
34:44Yeah.
34:44I think a lot of it is, uh, do as you're told.
34:46But, uh, I think along with a healthy shut up before that, that you would hear all the
34:52time, right?
34:52That's true, man.
34:53That's true.
34:54So, um, but I think, I think now, um, which, which I think is for the better, lah.
34:59Yeah.
35:00We would have appreciated that actually.
35:02Yeah.
35:02Right.
35:03Like it's almost like we learn from the, the youth of today because the way they want to
35:11be treated now is the way that actually we would have preferred to have been treated.
35:15Sure.
35:15In some ways.
35:16Yeah.
35:16Yeah.
35:17Definitely.
35:17Uh, to some extent, lah.
35:18I think, I think, uh, always pros and cons, right?
35:21I think that has also like, you know, taught us a little bit more grit and determination.
35:24Yeah.
35:25Uh, which is also very important.
35:27Yeah.
35:27So.
35:27But it's that balance then, right?
35:29Yeah.
35:29It's that balance now between that way and this way.
35:32Yeah.
35:32So even like, uh, with the way that, you know, I sort of like run my organization, it's,
35:37it's, it's that, lah, you know, it's not, it's not, I tell you just to do it,
35:40but I explain to you why we need to kind of get it done and you do it your way.
35:44Um, as long as we get to where we want to go.
35:47Right.
35:47And you are definitely getting there because you mentioned having a 10 year plan.
35:52Right?
35:53Yeah.
35:53Yeah.
35:54Well, yeah.
35:54We do have 10, yeah.
35:55All the way until like, you know, 2030.
35:57Yeah.
35:57Okay.
35:58I'll see you in 10 years time and we'll have another discussion then.
36:01For sure.
36:01For sure, Terry.
36:02Now we're going to go to the rapid fire questions now.
36:05Okay.
36:05Okay.
36:06So whatever answer that comes to your mind first is the one we are going to take.
36:10Okay.
36:11One word to describe PMC's journey so far.
36:14Evolving.
36:15Oh.
36:15Most surreal moment in your career.
36:17We have had many surreal moments, but I think one thing which has shaped the brand
36:21is partnership with KFC.
36:23Interesting.
36:23In 2019.
36:24One first.
36:25What stood up about it?
36:26What stood up?
36:27Well, it was our first big major collab and that is what sort of like opened up the floodgates
36:32for so many other corporate companies.
36:33Wow.
36:34You know, to come like and say like, hey, let's, you want to do something?
36:37At the key moment.
36:38Yeah.
36:39So people saw that because they had a lot of dollars to send to throw behind the campaign.
36:42So it was like, yeah, we could go out there and really do what we wanted to do.
36:46Speaking of collaborations, a collaboration you'd love to make happen.
36:50I think the Knicks, and we're not there yet, but definitely.
36:54You know, brands that come to mind would be, you know, Porsche.
36:58You know, things like, obviously like shoe brands like Nike.
37:02The idea here is that, you know, if that's the target, how do we get there?
37:07It's not an overnight thing, like I said before.
37:09It's about lining it up.
37:10So, you know, we're slowly coming together.
37:1310 years plan.
37:14Yeah, give it a while.
37:15I think it'll be quicker than 10 years.
37:16All right.
37:17All right.
37:18You heard it here.
37:19Okay.
37:20If you weren't in fashion, what would you be doing now?
37:22I think it would be, I've always enjoyed like furniture, like industrial design and stuff.
37:29And that was one of my first choices when dad kind of said like, hey, university, you know,
37:34what are you thinking about studying?
37:35I was like, I'm going to study industrial design.
37:38And he was like, oh, he was like, oh, you know, if, you know, as an architect, you can
37:43do everything else, but as everything else, you can't be an architect.
37:47I mean, like, huh, that kind of makes sense.
37:49I feel like we had the same father.
37:51I think it's just the Asian father in general.
37:53What's the biggest fashion trend you wish would make a comeback?
37:57To be honest, nothing.
37:58I think all of it is time and place.
38:00I think something which has like come back, you know, obviously when I was much younger,
38:05a lot of us were rocking like baggy jeans and, you know, I've seen that come, come back
38:09and, you know, it's quite nice.
38:11It's refreshing.
38:11See, I, I don't think I can pull it off, but I could, you could, man.
38:15I could maybe, maybe, but I don't quite, but I see a lot of the like young kids these
38:19days and they look really cool.
38:21Yeah.
38:21Yeah.
38:21So the thing that should make a comeback kind of has given me the comeback.
38:24It has definitely.
38:25Yeah.
38:25There are a lot of things.
38:26If you wait long enough, that thing will make a comeback.
38:29Whatever that thing is.
38:30Say for example, like, you know, skinny jeans are obviously like a thing, you know, back
38:33in like college, college days, like Nudie and all these brands.
38:37But when I look at it now, it's so uncomfortable.
38:40Yeah, man.
38:41You know, compared to like, that's why I wear like super like lightweight stuff.
38:44I like, I love sportswear these days.
38:46I remember having to get back from, from college and have to sit down to remove my pants.
38:50Yeah.
38:51Because they were so tight.
38:52Exactly.
38:52And our weather as well, you know, with our weather, right.
38:55It's not, it's not conducive to be honest.
38:57That one, we don't want to make a comeback, right?
38:59We don't want that to happen.
39:00Got it.
39:01In a world filled with trends, do you believe the best designs come from simplicity or intricate
39:07storytelling?
39:08I believe in substance.
39:10I like substance.
39:12Yeah.
39:13So I feel like there needs to be some sort of story.
39:15Meaning?
39:15Behind it.
39:16Yeah.
39:17I mean, once you have established that story, then you can put out simple things and it
39:20still gets eaten up.
39:21But I think the initial phase always needs that substance.
39:25Right.
39:25Right.
39:26Will you be writing a book, do you think?
39:27Uh, I wouldn't say no, not a book, but this year for 15 year anniversary, we are doing
39:34a coffee table book.
39:35So for that one is more of, um, more visual.
39:39Okay.
39:40So we just want to be able to, I think, like I said, right?
39:43Like a lot of times we, we don't look back and I always want to be able to really sort
39:47of capture that 15 years and go like, this is all that we've done over 15 years.
39:51We should be bloody proud.
39:52Yeah.
39:52Yeah.
39:53Look forward to seeing what that book looks like.
39:54Yes.
39:55All right.
39:55Final question.
39:56We ask everyone this, which is if you had the opportunity to make one change as Prime
40:03Minister of Malaysia.
40:06Oh my God.
40:06For a day, what would it be and why?
40:09Oh, what would it be?
40:11Prime Minister for a day.
40:12You make this change and then you say bye.
40:14Okay.
40:15Not that.
40:16Okay.
40:16I think I got one.
40:17I think I got one.
40:18I think, and I, and I look at, especially like right now in terms of the landscape, I
40:23look at Malaysia and I go like, there is actually so much talent, but just not enough platforms
40:29out there.
40:31Um, and, and the way that we brand the country, it's, uh, I look at South Korea, think about
40:36it.
40:37We don't even understand the language.
40:38We don't know anything about their culture, but we're eating it up and the amount of like
40:42branding, which is on it, right?
40:43Be it their films, their, their dramas, to their music, to their fashion right now.
40:49Right.
40:49So I think, you know, Malaysia itself has so much sort of talent, but you know, what are
40:55we doing?
40:55Doing about that, right?
40:56You're right.
40:56I think, uh.
40:58Where's the support, right?
40:59There could be more support.
41:00Yeah.
41:00A lot more support.
41:01I think a lot of it.
41:02I mean, you just look at our, our, even Olympics last year.
41:06Look at, I mean, that was the whole hoo-ha about like the, the, the, what they're wearing,
41:11right?
41:11Yeah.
41:11I mean, I mean, just that, right.
41:13That's like a, we're known for all these like bloopers and.
41:16Right.
41:17Right.
41:17When we are so capable and we have the talent that should be highlighted.
41:22Exactly.
41:22Yeah.
41:22In fact, sometimes the very talent that is highlighted, they are highlighted for the
41:26wrong reasons.
41:27Their performance is great, but they're, we're looking at what they're wearing instead.
41:30Exactly.
41:31So, so yeah, I think, uh, the untapped potential to be able to kind of showcase that.
41:36And I think for, that's always been like a dream of PMC and, you know, we do it in small,
41:41in small ways that we can.
41:42But like I said, like being a platform for others, that's always like the plan.
41:48And, uh, I think that is also our, that is also our vision.
41:51You know, we want to be able to put Malaysia on the map, like, you know, be this brand,
41:55this number one brand where people look at it and they go like, oh, I wonder where this
41:58brand from?
41:59Oh, Malaysia, where's this?
42:00Yeah.
42:01And then look at it and go like, oh, cool.
42:02Right.
42:03Maybe I'll visit one day.
42:04Yeah.
42:05Nice.
42:06Contribute that way.
42:07I would vote for you.
42:10Thanks, Terry.
42:11We appreciate you joining us today.
42:13It's been, it's been great.
42:14You're like, we, we learned a lot and you know, maybe we'll have you back in the
42:17future.
42:18Thank you, Terry.
42:19Yeah, 20, what's this?
42:21Now we're what?
42:222035, huh?
42:23Yeah.
42:2310 years.
42:24We'll mark it down in the calendar right now.
42:27Yes.
42:27Nice.
42:27Thank you so much.
42:28Really appreciate it.