In this episode, we have Melissa Campbell and Carmen Soo from Astro Shaw's latest series 'First Wives' diving deep into the quiet resilience of female friendships — the emotional lifelines that often hold women together when romantic relationships fail to meet expectations.
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00:00hello hello hello everyone and welcome back to why won't you love me anyway we're gonna be doing
00:16this with my two guests today they have no idea what just went on but I will explain to them
00:21after this and actually you guys are my first set of actors I had Diane a couple of episodes ago
00:31however she came in as a singer but I think you guys are my first set of actors so without further
00:37ado I would like to introduce to you Carmen Su and Melissa Campbell from First Wives
00:44hi how are you guys doing today I'm doing so good can I just say that I am like fangirling my inner
00:54child and my inner girl is fan because I'm sitting next to the Carmen Su like I need to say because
01:00we didn't get to I can't say too much no but I've always looked up to Carmen and when I was brought
01:08on to be part of this and that they casted Carmen Su I was like oh my gosh because I looked up to you
01:14for so long and to be able to share a screen with you I'm just like bucket list so I'm sitting next
01:22to Carmen Su and I'm doing a podcast I'm like oh my gosh and I have to say I remember you when you were
01:27little yeah and then the king that's actually so true anyway we'll talk about that later but we're
01:32actually here to talk about First Wives which is a new show that recently premiered I mean we're
01:38four episodes in so we're gonna be chatting about the themes that that's covered in First Wives
01:45so when I watched the first four episodes the showrunner Catalina May Hubbard correct that is
01:56your full name she actually described the show as like an ode to sisterhood so I thought that on today's
02:04episode we would talk about sisterhood and also how it impacts our romantic relationships before we
02:11actually start on the questions we usually like to just iron this out I'm in a relationship and what
02:19are your relationship statuses if you are comfortable with sharing that I am married I'm married for two
02:25years I just had my first baby it's nine months married two years but we have been together eight
02:33eight years and I'm married to my high school sweetheart yeah I love that for you yeah but
02:40we met when I was 13 14 looking back now I totally had a crush on him but didn't know what to do with
02:47it I was just discovering boys for the first time oh yeah and I and he like yes and he confessed his
02:52feelings for me and I said something really stupid as you would at 13 years old I said something like
02:59I will always have a soft spot for you oh what that and rightly so he was like okay which you did
03:07you do I did I did but I was nervous because I didn't know how to I didn't know what boys I just
03:12ended from one yeah you know I just ended no I just informed from mom from two then yeah I didn't know
03:17what it was but honestly it takes guts to even say that out loud yeah yeah for him I was 14 he was 13 but
03:22he was like I'm gonna but anyway he didn't want to talk to me after that he didn't talk to me oh
03:26he was freaked out no he wasn't he was more uh uh okay la oh I see he didn't talk to me for years
03:32so you guys played the long game play a long game we both went our separate ways and then when I was
03:39in my 20s on the states he slipped into my Instagram comment section and I was like wow flash from the past
03:46I was like where are you it all came back and I was like and Carmen yourself I have been married for 10
03:53years we've been together for 13 years and we have a daughter she's seven years old yeah that's really
03:59sweet this is almost embarrassing because um I'm obviously much less experienced than you guys
04:05different age group right I'm actually always hoping to learn something from the people that I invite on to
04:13this show so I mean I hope that I get to learn a thing or two from from my kakaks for today la yeah
04:19yeah basically so my first question is you know what's wild sometimes it feels like girls know you
04:29better than the person you're dating or you're married to why is that do you guys agree with that
04:36uh yes and no I think it's not fair to say all relationships are the same because every
04:42relationship have different dynamics and they are some people are just lucky to be best friends with
04:49each other yeah and some people are life partners you know so I think every relationship is different
04:55but I think girls know us better because we share a lot more things that we may not share with our other
05:01half and giving a very shallow example like like you know period pain or or having bad headache you
05:09know I can tell my husband I'm having a bad headache and I need to go to this event it's not staying
05:15still it's like oh okay maybe you just put something if I call my friend hey you know how how oh like this
05:21are like this are you call like that use this product so they understand us in this sense but of course
05:26on a deeper level uh they will understand the struggles for example childbirth pregnancy um for
05:35example when I tried to tell my husband something and he's not really getting it I was like why doesn't
05:39he understand how should I tell him how should I tell him tell me tell me how should I tell him so I
05:43think these are more on a deeper level right and I think with friends there are many many different
05:48types of girlfriends they're girlfriends that we travel with uh those we share our secrets with
05:55yeah some you go for a dance yeah or some you just go and have you know deep talks so I think
06:02all these girls in my life collectively probably know me a whole me than my my other half my maybe my
06:11issue is is that I maybe overshare with my husband he really is like my interesting my best friend I
06:19consult with him on everything from my hair or whatever is that I have to make but some people say
06:23right you shouldn't burden your partner too much and that's why with some things that they say you
06:28should take to a therapist or some things you don't want to over maybe it's like you it's your own
06:33issues but you want to pack them on to to your partner they can't help you with everything especially
06:36when it's your own right so sometimes I think I'm very guilty of maybe oversharing and I should be the
06:44one that should pull back and be a little mysterious sometimes you know what I mean right maybe I need to be
06:49like oh man tight hug a little bit maybe I'm showing a little bit too much to keep it interesting
06:54because that's the other side that I hear as well right yeah I don't think so though I think it's
06:59really nice that you have that you know that dynamic yeah that you have that you know because
07:05every time you share something and he gets it the bond develops even deeper yeah and there's this
07:11trust and there's and you reach I'm sure you've seen couples where you know something's going on and
07:17they just need to look at each other and they understand they don't need to say anything and
07:20these things takes time and conversations and openness and trust to be able to have that so I
07:26think you're on you're in a good place yeah I mean okay from my perspective listening to the both of
07:33you I mean you guys give very different perspectives that I didn't really consider and with that being
07:38said what you were saying as well is also something that I do agree with there are certain things that
07:42like I share with my girls and I don't share with my partner and there are certain things that I
07:47share with my partner and I don't share with my girls like I'm like I'm not the kind of person that
07:52like shares everything with my partner and leaves nothing for my friends and I'm also not the kind of
07:57person that shares everything with my friends and leave my partner out of it because it's so nice
08:02to have like your friend your partner being your best friend as well right like I guess we all try to
08:09I'm a believer at least that like you got to have some friendship dynamic in the relationship to
08:15make it last because it's not just like lust right forever and ever yeah it fizzles out exactly
08:21but then you're also building this bond and trust with your girlfriend so I have girlfriends from the
08:28time I was in school and also throughout my 20s yeah so now I'm older they've been friends with me for
08:34so long and they've gone through they've seen me through all those which is what you're building
08:38right now iterations of yourself yeah there's you evolve yes changes challenges evolve and yeah yeah
08:45no I mean it actually just leads into my next question which is have you guys personally gone
08:50through I mean share or or don't share it's okay up to up to you guys but have you guys personally
08:55gone through something particularly heavy where you felt like your friends showed up for you more than
09:01your partner did for me um I mean I've gone through tons of things that um I didn't necessarily feel
09:08like I had to keep my partner out of it but like it was just something that I knew my my friends would
09:13understand a little bit more I don't have to over explain I think after I gave birth because I
09:18didn't it was just me and my daughter because my husband went back to work after a few weeks and I
09:24didn't have a helper and I was very overwhelmed I was overwhelmed and I was like you know the whole
09:31breastfeeding and tiredness and I need to feed myself well so that I have milk you know all these
09:37stresses that my husband was very very hands-on still is yeah um but there's still a lot of things
09:43that he wouldn't be able to help for example he's at work so my girlfriends will come and then they will
09:49hang out with me and they'll carry my baby for a while and then I just get like oh I need to rest
09:53for a while you know so just giving me you know a hand here and there and whenever I tell her
09:59them anything like you know I you know just little things that happen you know last time my baby woke up
10:05she wouldn't want to go back to sleep and they just they just get it and it's not to discredit our
10:09partners right of course not we're not saying like oh yeah they're slacking or like yeah they're not good
10:13enough when they're not doing much and we're not in any way devaluing them it's just that
10:17sometimes our friends just get it yes a bit more yes I have something to say on that yeah yeah
10:26I might find it a little bit very controversial but um I think it's really important that you hold
10:32on to those female friendships are incredibly important because um I think it's a red flag
10:38sometimes you come across a partner they may try to isolate you from certain friends and when they
10:45know that you don't have anywhere to go that benefits them yeah you'll probably stay in that
10:50relationship a lot longer yeah the narcissistic type yes yes yes that that's that's that happens
10:56um but I've always had friends in my life at least my close runs are I'm in my ML maybe I don't approve
11:01of the person you're with right now or I'm not but know that I'm here for you yeah I'm gonna tell you
11:06if you're being an idiot but okay let's figure this out and what we're we're going to do what we're going
11:10to do next yeah and I think we have to hold on to those I know that we can get wrapped up sometimes
11:15in a relationship yeah I think that's normal but I do feel like sometimes women we have to sort of
11:22protect ourselves and knowing that hey if anything goes know that I have a support system I have friends
11:31you are not my only support system and you also so you have that confidence as well to know that
11:35if anything goes already you're gonna leave yeah you're not gonna continue in something like this
11:39that's not working for you or is damaging yeah no absolutely I agree um I mean I'm not sure if
11:46you guys have previously been in relationships like of this nature but like I feel like a lot
11:51of people do go through like literally exactly what you just described these super toxic relationships
11:57where you are super isolated and you end up drawing yourself back from from your friendships or
12:03you're scared to even tell your friends what's going on yeah you're gonna feel you're gonna be judged
12:07I remember suddenly that when I was younger I have girlfriends who told me that you know when
12:12you were with this guy you were just really weird yeah you know you were always checking your phone
12:17and the moment he calls you you gets up and leave and this energy about you and you were not really
12:22happy and everything was about him and you know just things that nobody else will tell you
12:27yeah because they know you and they care about you and they they they basically decided to say
12:32something some people know but they don't tell you right so yeah these are really really and the
12:37sad part is you don't really well because you're the person who's in that relationship or in that
12:42position you don't know that it's you can't see it happening that's the scary part I suppose
12:48yeah right like you don't understand like what's actually happening to you until someone I guess
12:53yeah your friend plucks out the courage and it takes courage yeah to actually like say to your friend
12:58like look you're in a you look like you're in a really tough spot you kind of need to rethink this
13:04relationship I love you and this is why I'm saying this to you yeah right so moving on to we're we've
13:11touched a little bit about what I'm I'm gonna move on to which is basically exploring that gap in
13:16romantic relationships so um yeah we're four episodes in and Michelle and Roshan yeah I've had I've been
13:27in relationships personally where I've had to do I feel like I had to or I just had to no I had to
13:34I had to carry the weight of that relationship on my shoulders because simply put my partner was just
13:41a loser yeah basically just neglecting the relationship like as a whole can we talk a little
13:47bit more about that dynamic I think Roshan is a little bit a great example of what we call weaponized
13:53incompetency like there's a bit of that but don't be wrong what he's going through and why he is the
13:59position is it's because look he's going through depression he's had an injury he was once this hero
14:05he was in a role of me he was a he was a fireman right he was used to saying people he's going out
14:11and he got hit by this he's unable to to work I can sympathize with that um when the weaponized
14:18incompetency parts is you've had a partner you've had Michelle who's decided to she's had to step up
14:23and she's like okay if you can't do it I'll do it and I'll do I'll do all of it um and then he feels
14:28like it's okay it's okay like it's okay I've seen that a lot I have some friends who I feel like
14:34their partners are being a bit incompetent but at the same time I'm like are you guys are you
14:38weaponizing it why do you keep doing this for him anyway reality is that um after a while
14:44like the partner who's carrying the weight um you're kind of feeding into it so after a certain
14:50point you can you got to stop blaming that person who is weaponizing their own incompetence right yes
14:55um and you got to ask yourself as well like why why do we mother these partners and I saw that a lot
15:05um especially in the first like two episodes I did have sympathy for erosion I did but I had even more
15:13sympathy for Michelle because again I feel like a lot of not just women I think men as well um a lot
15:22of people have been in her shoes yes where like again the weight isn't just not being pulled evenly
15:30right you're supposed to be giving 50 50 yes there are certain situations where maybe your partner can
15:36only give 30 today and you got to give that 70 and you got to pull it a little bit yes I mean of course
15:41course I think it's healthy to also make space for that of course right our partners are not expected
15:46to be perfect all the time but the dangerous part is that complacency in summary it just looked like
15:54he needed her more than she needed him so if she decided to walk off tomorrow she'd be fine and he would
16:04be basically a wreck a wreck but I think that when we audiences we watch a show like that or even
16:12if we see somebody we know who's going through that it's I think it's a very uh how to say easy
16:20conclusion to make which is also possibly an accurate conclusion however when you're in it right
16:26you're just kind of like I mean if somebody were to tell her that let's say this is this is what he's
16:31going to do and he's going to like let's say keep messing up she'll say no yeah she will she will say
16:36no but when you're in there every day okay I'm in this zone where I'm supporting him he needs time
16:42he's injured and you know he cannot work I have to step up you know and and and she just kind of
16:49sings that tune because that's really the only thing you have yeah because at which point did you
16:55think it's you or anyone going through that would think that it's okay to okay you know what I'm done
17:02because there's so much at stake there's family family yeah and yeah and then what's going to
17:08happen and and you also probably you probably think as well how much patience should I give to this
17:15to know that it's okay to walk away yeah you know that like what is it like do I take this for
17:20another month or does he mess up another time because you actually don't know so you just kind
17:25of people just kind of go along and just probably some everybody have that okay if he does this again
17:32I'm gonna leave or something just snaps one day out of the blue and it's like I've had it you know so
17:38I think it's very realistic uh what uh Michelle is going through yeah yeah and just trying to
17:44find solution she's just right yeah yeah okay this is something I can do I have this idea I'm gonna do
17:52it yeah but this is where I guess the female friendships come in do you see how I'm tying it
17:58all together have you guys ever had to talk um a friend out of being in a dead-end relationship like
18:08that but yeah have you guys ever had to I don't know talk a friend out and be like girl come on yeah
18:14it's time it's time to go we gotta go yes I have and how was that was that difficult like how did
18:21you handle it the kind of relationships that I have with my girlfriends and vice versa is I like
18:26to have a very truthful and very honest relationship the same way I hope that you tell me when I'm being
18:30an idiot I'll tell you if you're being an idiot as well I'm not going to judge you whatever you
18:34know I'm going to be by your side but I hope you can just just consider this this and this I'll be
18:39there if you want to continue I'll hold your hand and if you fought I'll be here as well but I have
18:44had had to tell my friend at the same time though it's like I approached it I try to approach it with
18:49empathy because do you feel bad I do I do because I always think about that I'm like okay you're doing
18:56this because maybe you're lonely there's a part of you all that companionship um but I wouldn't be a
19:04good friend if I didn't tell you truthfully like what I think you may be getting yourself into
19:10um it's like practical thinking versatile wishful thinking and yeah that would that answer the
19:18answer the question yeah no absolutely it's a difficult situation as like because you don't want
19:24to like you don't want to like meddle in anyone's relationship of course not but like as your friend
19:30they're coming to you crying right they're coming to you crying they're coming to you complaining
19:35talking about their problems and all of that at some point like you know when push comes to shove
19:40you've just got to be like like come on you deserve better I remember in my 20s I have this friend
19:45and uh she went out with this guy for a few years and he kept on cheating on her okay and there was one
19:51time she traveled somewhere and we all went out and we bumped to him with another girl oh and he
19:57actually came over to our table to say hello the audacity yeah so that between us everybody's like
20:04I'm not gonna tell her okay so I thought somebody should so I told her and then they had a fight
20:11and then she didn't leave him and she told him that Carmen said I should leave you which is not cool
20:21yeah yeah so I from that experience because it went on for a few years and and I was like you
20:28shouldn't say that to him because whether you leave him or not has nothing to do with what I tell you
20:33right so anyway from these experiences I've learned that just like what you say um uh don't meddle
20:41and but I also do what you do I'm very forthright so whenever something happens I always know that
20:48when you're in the situation you cannot actually see the situation as what it is so somebody has
20:53to tell you from you know the bigger picture so I'll give her the pros and the cons this is what's
20:58happening if you do this if you leave him this is what's going to happen if you don't what's going
21:02to happen so you decide yeah but if you ask me this is what I think you should do however I think that
21:09when a person is troubled they always know the answer they always know the solution it's just that
21:16they just whether they cannot decide they haven't come to the right time to decide or they don't
21:20have the courage or something just has to click you know so I just feel that they already know what
21:26they have to do whether they're going to forgive the person or they're going to leave but they just
21:30need to go through a certain process where they they will just make up their mind at some point
21:37you know so I leave them to go through their process live their life as well right yeah because I don't
21:44want to be the kind of person that every time she comes it's like uh he's mean to me again I don't
21:49want to be like always the person I told you not to because then I know that she won't she won't tell
21:55me anymore because she will stop like yeah I said did it happen it's like no no she didn't but I know
22:00she's lying yeah so I don't want to be that kind of person I just want to be like all ears but it's
22:05like I already tell you what I think yeah you can complain to me a hundred times you decide you know
22:10yeah yeah I definitely agree with you guys I mean do you guys have any I guess closing tips
22:17for how to how to handle a friend who's going through a really really difficult um relationship
22:24for me and this is for me personally what has made me feel so much more secure and supported
22:32is that when I've had a friend and I'll say this back is listen um my door is always open if you need
22:39a place to stay if you need a sofa to crash on please know that I'm here don't think twice if
22:46you need to get out of a situation I'll come like whenever you're just whenever you're ready
22:51and that's helped me a lot just to feel like definitely less alone knowing that I have a safe
22:58place to go to um I think a lot of people stay in things that they shouldn't because they think that
23:05they they don't have a way out they don't have a way out similar like what Melissa said um I think
23:12that um they they usually feel very alone when they're going through that so I think just letting
23:18them know that I'm all ears and and they can tell me the same story a hundred times it's okay I'll
23:23listen and I'll tell them what I think a hundred times too um and and just very specific things like
23:30you know you you whoever this person is you kind of know what they need whether they need a place
23:35to crash or they need let's say money or they need to start over whatever it is just to be able to
23:43let them know that it's okay your friends have your back um I also like to add that there's something
23:49that I read recently about our own personal energy when we help people who are troubled so I also have
23:57to be aware of carrying the weight of all my friends troubles right so there's also um juggling
24:04that because we need to be in a state of mind where we are neutral and helping them and not sometimes
24:10when my friend call me like oh it's 2 a.m and I'm like I really need to sleep but you just need to
24:16you know there's like boundaries and and and basically learning to juggle and it's like okay girl
24:22you've talked for two hours you need to go to sleep now you know so that's also we whatever
24:27is it that we try to do for everybody else we should also watch out for ourselves as well and
24:32realizing how much of the emotional weight we're carrying for other people as well yeah yeah and
24:38it's not to say that our friendships can be our friendships are burdensome but like of course you
24:43gotta you gotta protect your energy as well right yes but closing question before we actually wrap up
24:48this interview what what did you what did you guys take away from your filming experience um on
24:55first wives whether it's about love about um female friendships or just friendships in general
25:01or um yeah relationship um well shall I do have that yeah firstly the the entire shooting experience
25:09has been a joy um Imri our director created a very positive vibe a very collaborative
25:15creative and uh there were like no dramas and for me no problems at all like I just I just had a lot
25:23of fun um one thing I learned about my character is that I really can do it all you know I don't need
25:33no man correct correct yes yeah yeah I cannot say so much anymore yeah personally as Mel I was pretty
25:42proud of myself to get through that um because I shot pregnant yeah I was five I was five months
25:48pregnant when I was shooting I don't know how you did that oh my god I thought I could say that I guess
25:54I'm proud of myself for for doing that sorry to interrupt but I remember that throughout the shoot she
25:59was still very agile and light but I remember towards the end I was like I was getting like you look
26:06really really pregnant now heavy and that's when the weather was getting to me yeah yeah
26:11late overnight shoots yes that was starting to feel it yeah so I I know how she's feeling and I'm like
26:19oh gosh she's like I don't want to complain about it I don't want anyone to feel you know sorry for me
26:23I think I was more proud of it because I felt like I just wanted to be like damn women are great
26:30aren't we great yeah aren't we great I was thinking about that I was like yes we're making
26:34a baby we can live shooting a film and I'm like I can do it if I can shoot five months pregnant doing
26:3916 hour scenes and all overnight shoots you know I was like I felt like gave me so much more confidence
26:45as well I feel like from now I'm like I can do it you know I'm not afraid now I'm like whatever it is
26:50I take on I'm like I can do that yes and I think I hope that whoever sees this does take away from
26:58the show they felt seen um because I think playing Michelle I hope she's relatable I hope
27:03people feel seen and same time they come out feeling empowered and feeling that love as well for
27:13their girlfriends I feel you can really watch this and enjoy this together yes it's a story about fight
27:19isn't it yes it's a story about it's a story about fight and when it comes to push comes to shove
27:24I'm really just like amazed at what women can do in life I'm actually what do we need men for again
27:30yeah if we can make the baby feed the baby I have a problem okay make money yeah blink your hands
27:36together and just find a solution do the thing yeah just do the thing yeah no I totally agree with
27:43you guys um honestly like when I watched again I haven't watched the entire show I've literally
27:49seen it up until the midway point um but I actually saw bits of myself in every female
27:57character in this show and I'm not just talking about both your both both your characters I saw
28:02yeah I saw parts of myself in both your characters but I saw myself in D I saw myself in honestly in
28:08Izati as well I saw myself yeah I saw just bits of myself and I felt like you said I felt so seen
28:17I just felt like it really was a celebration of women's strength yes yeah women's strength and not
28:27just strength but solidarity thank you Kat for making the show solidarity yeah and how again I don't think
28:35this show is um like trying to spew any hatred towards men at all I don't think that the men in
28:43this show were even terrible characters I I think they're flawed but I think all the characters in
28:50this show is flawed yes so yeah I don't think um I didn't I didn't look at any of those characters any
28:57less just because they were men and like the women in this particular show were just particularly strong
29:02um so yeah I I really did love how this show just celebrated female friendships in general and just
29:10reminded me as well that like I have so many friendships around me that I need to cherish more
29:17and I need to hold a little bit tighter and a little bit closer um because at the end of the day
29:23if I'm going through hell and back it's going to be with them yeah um I think it's such beautiful
29:30messaging and I just want to say thank you so much for doing the show um yeah thank you Kat as well
29:35for this show for putting this together showrunner slash producer and thank you guys for bringing to
29:41life such um multifaceted multifaceted and such um diverse characters yeah and I really hope that you
29:48guys go on to do more roles that that exemplify exemplify uh topics like this
29:55I hope so too but that's it for my spiel um thank you so much thank you thank you for having us
30:03Carmen and Melissa for being on why won't you love me it's been such a pleasure having you guys come
30:08onto my show today um to talk about all things female friendships and love and yeah thank you so
30:15much and congratulations on first wives and yeah until then I guess thank you so much for tuning into
30:22today's episode we will catch you guys on the next one until then take care and bye bye