Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Thanet District Council cabinet member for parking Kristian Bright, Conservative Medway Shadow Cabinet Member for Regeneration Housing and Communities and East Thanet Labour MP Polly Billington.
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00:29Good evening and welcome to the Kent Politics Show, this time missing the intro.
00:33The show that gets Kent's politicians talking.
00:36I'm Oliver Leader of the Saks, and we were hoping to set our sights on Kent's seaside today
00:42with a deep dive into the issues facing our coastal communities, particularly Dover,
00:47where the Labour-led council's week has gone from bad to worse,
00:50following a second defection from the group, following Charles Woodgate's decision
00:54to switch from Labour to Conservative, making the ruling group a minority administration.
01:00I bring it up because we were supposed to have Mr Woodgate on the programme this evening
01:04to question him why he decided to abandon his party over national decisions,
01:08but he pulled out this morning with very little explanation.
01:11But just because he's not here doesn't mean the show is over,
01:13so we look at Labour's first six months and the big issues in our seaside towns and villages.
01:18Joining me is Christian Bright, the Cabinet Portfolio Holder for Parking at the Tanner District Council,
01:23and at the last minute, thank you very much, Andrew Lawrence,
01:27the Medway Shadow Cabinet Member for Regeneration, Housing and Communities.
01:32Now, January marks the sixth month mark for the Labour government,
01:35and already 2025 has been a bit of a tough start.
01:38The UK economy is on shaky ground, with the pound falling to its lowest in over a year
01:43and borrowing costs rising to a 16-year high.
01:47With promises to turbocharge the NHS and utilise AI to change our lives,
01:52it's not all doom and gloom.
01:55Well, thank you both for joining me here in the studio.
01:58And I just wanted to kind of get your sense here.
02:01What do you make of the Labour government at the sixth month mark?
02:04Obviously, it's always going to be a tricky start for any new government around now.
02:09And obviously, we're starting to kind of see their policy agenda going into their first year
02:14and where the economy really is at in response to the budget.
02:18Christian, I want to go to you on this one first.
02:20What do you make of it?
02:21Because obviously, we are seeing a bit of shakiness around the pound,
02:24a bit of shakiness around UK borrowing costs.
02:28Yeah, well, I mean, as I understand it, the OBR today have upgraded the outlook
02:33for the British economy, predicting a 1.6% growth year on year,
02:39which is a really positive thing.
02:43So I think the jury's got to still be out.
02:46You can't undo 14 years of structural stagnation within six months.
02:52The government knew that when they were coming in, they had to fix a lot of things.
02:58And they're setting about doing it.
02:59And look, markets, looking at the markets, markets don't like stability.
03:06I mean, economics isn't a science.
03:09It's as much about gut feeling and emotion as anything else.
03:12Markets don't like instability.
03:15I think Labour have come in with a clear plan on what they want to do
03:18and how they want to deliver it.
03:21And changing or diverting multiple times, depending on what the media,
03:26which way the media are blowing, would be a mistake.
03:29So I think they've set out their journey.
03:31They've set out their fiscal rules.
03:33They're going to stick to them.
03:35I think earlier in the week, Keir Starmer said that Rachel Reeves is in it
03:38for the long haul.
03:39Again, that, whilst members of the opposition may be thinking,
03:44well, we want to cause as much turmoil as possible, is a bad thing.
03:48I think that's actually a good thing because it's setting out to the markets.
03:51It's telling the markets that, no, we're going to be stable.
03:54We're not going to change our minds every six months.
03:57And this is our plan.
03:59Now, I think in the long term, when people start feeling more money
04:02in their pockets and more spending power, markets will get used to what the
04:08And obviously, it is about that April, right?
04:10Because that's when we're going to see these policies come to effect.
04:12Obviously, Treasury Minister Darren Jones says,
04:14at the moment, there's no need for an emergency intervention.
04:17The markets will continue to function in an orderly way.
04:20But, Andrew, I know you've already been sceptical of Labour's
04:23economic policies so far.
04:25Are you worried what April might bring?
04:27Do you think that at the moment, this is more a sign of things to come?
04:30Or is it just a little wobble to begin the year off?
04:32Well, it's certainly not a little wobble.
04:34Oliver, it's been a disaster.
04:36I mean, no idea.
04:37Keir has managed to trash the economy.
04:40He's selling off bits of the land that Britain owns
04:44and actually paying someone to take it.
04:47Rachel Reeves has been a disaster.
04:49I mean, most of her budget measures don't come into effect until April.
04:53But look what's happened already.
04:55Retail sales are down 0.3% in December.
04:59Inflation has risen, but it has slightly cooled.
05:04The pounders are low and government borrowing,
05:07the price of government bonds are at 16, I think even a 17-year high.
05:13So I'm struggling to find any good news that Keir Starmer
05:18has delivered for the country.
05:19And in terms of this, when you've got more money in your pocket,
05:22I can tell you I'm a business owner and I talk to other business owners.
05:25These tax rises, workers will pay for these tax rises.
05:29Businesses don't pay for tax rises.
05:31People who buy services and employees pay for tax rises.
05:36And this will have a long-term impact on both the Medway economy
05:41and the Kent economy.
05:42But it is early days, though, because obviously they are suggesting
05:46using AI to boost efficiency.
05:48They are suggesting that we're going to get more investment
05:51over the next couple of years, particularly in capital investments.
05:55Do you not think that this is just too early to judge growth
05:59in the economy at the moment, particularly because we detected
06:02growth in the economy on a delay?
06:04Look, the economy's flatlined.
06:06The economy has gone into flatline.
06:09The Labour government inherited an economy that was growing at 1.7%,
06:13which the Labour Party derided as a failure.
06:17And yet the OBR are now predicting 1.6%.
06:20Rachel Reeves needs much higher growth in order to pay
06:25for a massive borrowing.
06:27And in terms of AI, I think if anyone thinks that Wes Streeting
06:30is going into a room and he's going to turn on all this AI
06:33that's going to transform the NHS, then people need to wake up
06:36and smell the coffee.
06:37AI is a big project.
06:39We're going to need far more computing power.
06:41We're going to need far more electricity generation
06:44just to power that computing power.
06:46And, of course, the first thing that Keir Starmer did when he came
06:48into power was to dump a data centre project worth £1.3 billion,
06:54which was going to power a lot of this AI.
06:56So I'm struggling to find the plan, the plan that's going to generate
07:01all of this growth to pay for all this borrowing.
07:03And obviously we have seen a defection over in Dover.
07:05Christian, what do you make of all of that?
07:07Because obviously there are some people concerned about Labour
07:10in government already.
07:11We have seen accounts go into no-control effectively over this.
07:16These are certainly more than teething issues, right?
07:20Well, I think the fundamental issue you've got here is that
07:25this party is investing in people.
07:28So you can say what you like about the economy,
07:31and you can say what you like about the end user of business,
07:36growth, et cetera, but what this government are focused on
07:39is actually what have people's lives looked like
07:43in the last 10 years.
07:44This government has set out by improving schools,
07:48creating the National Wealth Fund, creating GB Energy,
07:51renationalising railways when they come in.
07:53You can shake your head.
07:54It's all positive things.
07:55It's all borrowed money, Christian.
07:57Yeah, it's all borrowed money.
07:59And the only people who have been helped by this government
08:02are trade unionists.
08:04Andrew, let Christian finish off his point quickly.
08:07I wasn't quite done.
08:11If we're talking about local government,
08:13I don't understand how you can be someone that's witnessed
08:16the last 15 years, or 14 years, sorry, of Tory control
08:21and make the change to say, right, I'm going to go over
08:23to the Conservative Party.
08:26Now, I don't know the set-up in Dover.
08:30There may be internal politics at play or what.
08:33What I do know is that Labour councils deliver for the people.
08:37We've delivered for the people of Thanet.
08:39We have delivered over 400 new social homes,
08:42up from an average of 18 a year.
08:44We've delivered 400 in the first year.
08:46We're delivering new temporary accommodation,
08:51which is going to cut our budget on temporary accommodation
08:54and external.
08:55So we are delivering.
08:56We're putting people first.
08:57We're putting the services that we need to deliver first.
09:00And you talk about borrowing, Andrew.
09:02Borrowing reached its greatest levels under the Conservative
09:04government.
09:05It's increased, Christian.
09:06It's gone up and up and up.
09:07Christian, it's increased.
09:08So your government have borrowed 25.
09:10The first thing your government have done is borrow £40 billion
09:13to pay for all of these increases in public sector pay,
09:16in the hope you're going to get growth.
09:18Unfortunately for you, the economy is flat-lined.
09:20There is no growth.
09:21But what your point is there is that, as a government,
09:24you would have sat on...
09:26It's not what I would have done.
09:27It's your government re-empower.
09:29I want to step in here because, obviously,
09:31the one thing that Reggie Reeves has said is her fiscal rules say
09:34she's not going to borrow to fund day-to-day spend.
09:36Bring it back to the original point.
09:38In five years, Oliver.
09:41In five years.
09:42But her fiscal rules state that it will be reliable on that cost
09:46of borrowing.
09:47And, obviously, the recent economic news,
09:49even if there will be high growth,
09:51will be that cost of that borrowing and the value of the pound
09:54will impact on that ability to stick to the fiscal rules.
09:57There may be spending cuts.
09:59There may also be increases in taxation.
10:02I'm wondering where you both think...
10:04All those things are happening.
10:05So we have had massive increases in taxation.
10:07And that taxation is on the engine of growth,
10:09which is on business.
10:10So the problem for the government is,
10:12because the amount that the government wants to borrow,
10:16at the cost it has to borrow,
10:18it's losing all of its fiscal headroom.
10:20So Rachel Reeves gave herself £9 billion,
10:23and there's lots and lots of commentary that she's very close
10:26to breaching her own fiscal rules,
10:28which has got to be a record for a government
10:30in its first six months.
10:31And in terms of what Labour have done,
10:33in Medway, all Labour have done is borrowed £14 million
10:37to plug a budget gap that they created
10:39for the current financial year.
10:41And it's looking like they're going to have to borrow
10:43another £25 million...
10:44Andrew, I want to bring Christian in.
10:46If you're making commitments to spending
10:49and you don't have the budget to pay for that,
10:52that's a bad thing, isn't it?
10:54So when the Labour government came in and in-year spending
10:56was overreached by £22 billion...
10:58No, that's made up. We all know.
11:00Well, I don't think we all know that.
11:03Even the OBR have said that that number
11:05is not a number they recognise.
11:07But they have recognised, regardless of the numbers.
11:10They know. We all know.
11:11Regardless of the numbers.
11:12Well, no, it's £22 billion.
11:13That's one way of looking at it.
11:15But either way, what we do know
11:17is that there were massive government overspends.
11:19The Conservative government were making announcement
11:21after announcement after announcement.
11:23Labour government comes in.
11:24These announcements can't be delivered.
11:26If that £22 billion was even a true number,
11:29the fact is it's like 0.5% of government spending.
11:32In Medway, Vince Maple and the Medway Labour Group
11:35have overspent their budget by 5% of spending.
11:38So what's worse?
11:410.5% of spending or 5%?
11:43I don't know where that overspending is,
11:45because there are some...
11:46Well, I'm going to have to cut both of you off.
11:48We're about to go to a break now,
11:49and obviously Vince and his administration
11:51are not here to defend themselves.
11:52Obviously, the economy,
11:54something we can all agree to disagree on, I think.
11:57But we'll be back after the break
11:59with perhaps a surprise guest
12:01as we discuss the Milmey closures
12:03and Seashells closures of family hubs across Kent
12:06and coastal house prices on the decline.
12:09But why?
15:43Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV.
15:44The show gets Kent's politicians talking, perhaps tonight arguing.
15:45Still joining me are Christian Bright, the Cabinet portfolio holder for parking at Thalwick
15:46District Council, and Andrew Lawrence, the Medway Shadow Cabinet member for regeneration,
15:47housing and communities.
15:48But before all of that, Kent County Council has made a decision to scrap family hubs that
15:51services in Sheppey and Margate. MPs, councillors and parents have all waded in to try and protect
15:58Seashells and Millmead Children's Centre from closure. But today, Susan Charlton, the Cabinet
16:03member for Integrated Children's Services, says she has taken a difficult decision not
16:08to renew the contracts for the hubs. Stating that KCC is under critical financial pressures
16:14and must ensure their services are equitable, efficient and effective for all Kent residents.
16:18Well, I'm going to go to you first on this, Christian, because this is actually going
16:22to be something that you will know a bit more about, Andrew, obviously this is kind of outside
16:25of Medway's remit. And obviously, Margate, it's just round the corner from your ward.
16:31What do you make of this decision by KCC? I think it's absolutely, it's a real, I was
16:37dismayed when I read about it. I went to visit the Millmead Centre last summer and spoke
16:42to some of the service users. And for Andrew's benefit, it's in the Dane Valley Ward in Margate,
16:50which is I think the third or second most deprived ward in the south-east of England,
16:54certainly one of the most deprived wards in Kent. And it offers so much more than, it's
17:00not just a sure start centre, it offers advice on domestic abuse, it offers sanctuary, it
17:05offers health and safety advice, it offers a really good youth club. There's so many
17:10aspects to it. And what I got from that was the residents were so, they loved the place.
17:16And you've got parents that have been going there for 20 years, some of them were there
17:20as teenagers taking part in the youth service, youth club. I don't see how withdrawing a
17:26service from the most deprived ward in, or one of the most deprived wards in Kent, can
17:31benefit in any way. It's a false saving, right, because you're going to have poorer economic
17:37outcomes in terms of education, poorer economic outcomes in terms of employment and health.
17:43I think this was an opportunity for Suchanda to think again, and at least until reorganisation
17:52has taken place, deferred that judgment. Because I think if you know the area, and whatever
17:59comes after Kent County Council, whichever authority is going to be running that is going
18:04to know that area a lot more and understand where that support is really needed.
18:08Because obviously, Andrew, it is like that thing where children's and adult services
18:11are a huge cost for any council, particularly Medway, which is a unitary, which runs its
18:15own services. Obviously, it hasn't slashed any family hubs yet, but it is a major cost
18:20for the council, isn't it?
18:21It is, and look, I'm sure Kent County Council haven't made this decision lightly. They've
18:26not just picked on your end of Kent. It's a really difficult one. But I think it actually
18:33brings into sharp focus one of the problems we've got as local councils, whether you're
18:36at the district level or at the unitary level, is there is just not enough money. Government
18:41has the whip hand on money, and whilst we're going through this reorganisation agenda,
18:47what they're not reorganising is the way local government is funded. For me, as a member
18:55of the Conservative Party, I'd like to be able to put forward a budget to the people
18:58of Medway and the people of Medway vote on that budget for the services that we want
19:03to provide. I'm sure it's the same in the Labour Party, and I'm sure it's the same in
19:06other parties. The problem is, yes, what we didn't touch on, of course, is we've had COVID,
19:11we had the previous financial crash, and all of those have had an impact on the amount
19:16of money there is in the system. We have to think about changing how we fund local services.
19:22I'm a great proponent for localism in all of its guises, not only bringing democracy
19:29to local people, but also bringing the decision on how much money they should pay to fund
19:36services in the local area. We're in a ridiculous situation. The reorganisation isn't going
19:41to solve any of those problems.
19:42And obviously we had Vince Maple, one of the key players on the programme, last week to
19:46discuss it. But it is something that I find quite interesting, that potentially the evolution
19:50could plug the gap, depending...
19:52No.
19:53Well, it depends what the settlement looks like, depending on what happens. But I was
19:57curious, what are your views on this, Christian? Because obviously we had John Davies, another
20:01fellow councillor on the programme last week, who supports the evolution. But what are your
20:06stance on it? Because obviously it could change the way that places like family hubs are funded.
20:12Well, I think there's a difficult perspective to think about and to talk about here. So
20:19I'm going to just say, we've got to think about the staff at the various councils. Thanic
20:23District Council itself employs over 500 people. So I think we just need to... I can't be overly
20:29enthusiastic or overly dismissive of it. What I do think, however, is that from a devolution
20:35point of view, a mayor with a strategic oversight of the services that matter, I'm not 100%
20:42supportive of that idea, because I don't see that as any more local than Kent County Council.
20:47And at the moment, we've got Kent County Council based, effectively a cabal of cabinet
20:52members, probably based in West Kent, making decisions for East Kent. Now, with the best
20:58wind in the world, they just don't know the area as well as locals do. So what I do think
21:03is that once you start getting that reorganisation, you will have that element where people are
21:09a little closer. They know the requirements. I could tell you straight away which areas
21:16need more support than others. And you'll make that sort of strategic choice at a wider
21:21area and put the support in where it's most needed.
21:24I would like to bring you in, Andrew, but we are joined actually down the line by Polly
21:30Billington, the MP for East Thanet, who has been an avid campaigner for Millmead. Polly,
21:38thank you so much for joining me down the line. I know that you're very, very busy.
21:42I just want to ask you, Polly, were you surprised by the decision today by Kent County Council?
21:50I'd been hopeful right up until the last that they would make the right decision, and I'm
21:54absolutely devastated that they've decided against it. They literally have no excuse.
21:59They've been given more than four million pounds by this Labour government in order
22:03to be able to support services for vulnerable families in deprived areas. Millmead serves
22:10one of the most deprived parts of the southeast, as indeed does Seashells on the Isle of Sheppey.
22:15And yet they have decided to close these in the next couple of months. Now, that doesn't
22:19just mean job losses. It means the end of services for really vulnerable families and
22:25children in really deprived areas. Now, I know Kent will say that they've really strapped
22:30for cash and they're providing the services elsewhere. Both of those things may well be
22:35true, but they're not the point. For a start, some of the services that are currently being
22:40provided will not be provided at all. Some of the services will be provided elsewhere.
22:45Now, I know there'll be a lot of people watching who will say, well, can't they get in their
22:48car and make it around a little bit further away, a couple of miles? Lots of people don't
22:53have cars. These are some of the poorest families in the southeast, and they, at the moment,
22:59are within, as we call it, pram or push chair push, right, of being able to get their kids
23:04to really good supportive services, things which helps the mums when they're pregnant,
23:09helps them get used to things like breastfeeding, helps families when their children are diagnosed
23:14with autism, really good safeguarding services, as well as many other services, all wrapped
23:19up in a children's centre, which means that when you walk through the door, there is literally
23:23no shame about you needing to be able to get this help because there's loads of other things
23:27that everybody gets as well, a bit of baby yoga, a nursery, lots of really supportive
23:33activities. Now, a significant number of these activities, these services, will no longer
23:39be available at all, and some will be further away. Now, I think that is absolutely, if
23:45you're given 4 million quid, more than 4 million quid, to provide services for deprived families
23:54in deprived communities, for a year, would you not spend some of that money in places
24:01that are already designated some of the most deprived communities in the South East?
24:06Well, Polly, I do want to kind of say that KTC set out strict spending requirements with
24:11that 4 million pounds, such as the money having to be used to fund the core delivery aspects
24:16of the family hubs, and they must all be used within the same financial year. That kind
24:21of impacts those ongoing services.
24:23That's completely fine. That's completely fine within the same financial year. This
24:264 million pounds can be spent across Kent on providing those family hub services. They
24:32are hiding behind criteria that is absolutely flexible. You know why I know it's flexible?
24:40Because there's literally no way that a government would start picking and choosing which kind
24:45of operation that a local authority could spend their money on, because they trust local
24:51authorities to make these decisions based on need and also based on their political
24:56priorities. It's clear that Kent's political priority is not to support deprived families
25:02in deprived communities, such as the ones that rely on seashells in Sheppey and Millmead
25:07in Margate. And that is inexcusable.
25:11So Polly, what would you like to see from here on out? Because obviously we've heard
25:14talk of this going to scrutiny committee at KCC, and there are concerns that even if
25:20it is a year's funding, there'll be ongoing issues surrounding long-term funding for these
25:25family hubs, even if it is overturned at scrutiny. I was wondering, what do you think should
25:29be the next steps from here?
25:31Well, I think they should be calling it in. And my colleagues in the Labour group at Kent
25:35County Council, remember, they're the opposition. So they don't have decision-making power in
25:41relation to the final decision. That's the administration and that's the Conservatives.
25:45But they can try to call in this decision to force the administration to reconsider
25:51it. And I think they should do that. And I think the idea that in the long term, these
25:56family hubs are in jeopardy is an understanding of really where Kent in the long term thinks
26:02its priorities are. Because let me make it quite clear to you that this government's
26:07priority will be helping to support families with children in their early years. It's clearly
26:13something that we've always talked about. We continue to talk about it now. And we know
26:18the difference you can make. We can see now over the long term, this children's centre
26:25in Millmead originally started as a Sure Start centre under the last Labour government. We've
26:30now got longitudinal research, which demonstrates that because of that kind of support, children
26:37do better in their GCSEs, they're more likely to be able to get work.
26:41Well, Polly, sorry, I'm going to have to come in here because we're coming to the break
26:45and that's break time now. But thank you so much for speaking to us today. And I'm sure
26:49we'll speak to you in the future on this issue because it's not going to go away from our
26:52political discussion. Thank you so much. And also thank you to our guests here in the studio.
26:57I apologise I couldn't bring you in just before the end, but it's been great having you on
27:00the programme. Thank you, Christian, for your first time here on The Kent Politics Show
27:03and Andrew for coming at the last minute. We'll be back next week with more of the political
27:06headlines. And if you want to come to Go Kent online for more of the news, stay with us.