Catch up on the latest political news from across Kent with Oliver Leader de Saxe, joined by Cllr Kevin Mills, Labour Leader of Dover District Council, and Cllr Anthony Hook, Leader of the Liberal Democrat Group at KCC
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00:00Welcome to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians
00:28talking.
00:29I'm Oliver, leader of the SACs, and this week all eyes are on Kent's political parties and
00:34the future they have for the country, with party conference season underway across the
00:39UK.
00:40It's not the only political news though, the Prime Minister is eyeing up new solutions
00:44to the migrant crisis, while coming under fire for the amount of gifts he's had to declare
00:49since 2019.
00:50To make sense of it all, I'm joined by Kevin Mills, the late Labour leader of Dover District
00:55Council, and Anthony Hook, the leader of the Liberal Democrat group at KCC.
01:00But first, tonight, it's what everyone is talking about, from folks in Dover to all
01:05the way in Westminster.
01:07Is Kent ready for new checks with the EU?
01:10From November, a new digital border control, called the Entry Exit System, I mean, will
01:15change the requirements for British nationals heading to wider Europe.
01:20So what does that mean for Kent's biggest port, and for our only rail link across the
01:23channel at Folkestone?
01:24Well, Anthony, I'm going to go to you on this one, because obviously KCC are helping to
01:30manage the situation, and are working with all the appropriate authorities.
01:35Do you think Kent is ready for this?
01:38No, and I think KCC is struggling and wants to know what's going on.
01:44And the problem is there's no clear solution, and this is another harm that Brexit is inflicting.
01:49Those of us who fought against Brexit said at the time that Brexit will continue to inflict
01:55new wounds on us for 20 years to come.
01:59And this is now, we're now five years on or so from Brexit.
02:02This is the latest one, which is that it's going to be much harder and take a lot more
02:06time to cross the channel.
02:09And because of the very limited space there is around Port of Dover and Channel Tunnel,
02:14there's a huge risk of big tailbacks, even worse than the ones we've had under Operation
02:18Broad.
02:19Kevin, do you agree with that assessment?
02:22Obviously you are one of the councils that's going to be most impacted by the EES.
02:28Is Dover ready?
02:29No.
02:30Dover's not ready.
02:31Kent's not ready.
02:32Anthony said, I mean, you know, I work with KCC and the Kent and Medway Resilience Task
02:38Force over this, and everybody's frustrated.
02:42A lot of the solutions are outside our hands.
02:45One of the biggest issues we've got is new technology in the mobile tablets, because
02:49obviously Dover, as Anthony's just said, geographically isn't big enough to deal with the backlog.
02:57So they're looking to try and clear them elsewhere by using these mobile tablets.
03:00Well, it's quite evident that they're failing for the vast majority of the time in the tests.
03:05So that's not there.
03:07We geographically don't have the space to queue people up to get cleared.
03:11We've not got any authority, or Dover Harbour Board haven't, to clear cars anywhere other
03:15than the eastern docks.
03:17So it's a perfect storm, and it's not helped by the Department for Transport.
03:21They've done a modelling, but I can't see the modelling.
03:25You're not allowed to print their document off.
03:27You're not allowed to share their document.
03:28I'm not even sure you're supposed to be discussing their document.
03:31But you know, November isn't that far away.
03:34And I know they are forecasting the worst situation, 14 hour delays, medium about nine
03:39hours.
03:40So it's anything between zero and 14.
03:42I wouldn't necessarily expect major issues when it first comes in in November, because
03:47the actual traffic flow is quite low for that time of year.
03:51But get to Christmas, definitely get to Easter.
03:54It will be really problematic unless some of these issues are resolved.
03:58Because I was actually going to ask about that, because obviously we do have the Christmas
04:01holidays quite soon after it comes in, because the latest it will probably come in is around
04:06the 17th of November.
04:08That is the contingency from the EU.
04:10Do you think that's when we could first see the real stumbling blocks here?
04:15Christmas, if anything, will be the first time, because that's when you start to see
04:19tourist traffic going on board.
04:20And you remember the real issue isn't necessarily lorries, because the vast majority of lorries
04:24are driven by Europeans, therefore they're not subject to EES checks.
04:28It will be the tourist traffic.
04:30It will be the cars, people travelling home for Christmas, people travelling wherever.
04:35So if we're going to see a problem, it will start potentially then, but Easter would be
04:39my real concern, because that's when the numbers really start to pick up.
04:42So Anthony, obviously with less than two months to go now, what needs to be done to get Kent
04:49up to speed?
04:50Do you think it's even possible to get us ready for what could potentially be happening
04:53on our south coast?
04:55Well, it's really, the ball is in the courts of the government.
05:01I think it's beyond the scope of local governments, either the district or the county council,
05:06to fix this problem.
05:08This is an international challenge, and national government needs to provide the resources.
05:14And I think the long-term solution, I'm afraid to say, is we've got to repair our relationship
05:18with Europe and actually get back to a situation where people can cross more freely again.
05:24There are a few other non-EU states, such as Switzerland, which won't be affected by
05:28this, because they have mutual agreements about free movement between those countries
05:35and Europe.
05:36And we need that situation, too.
05:37People live cross-border lives.
05:39People like to go and visit France and Spain and other parts of Europe.
05:44And as Kevin said, it's the passenger traffic that will be really affected, because each
05:48individual passenger will need, among other things, their fingerprints scanned.
05:53So a coach of 50 people will need 50 individual people to be seen by a French border officer
05:59for that purpose.
06:00And any of your viewers who visited America would have encountered very similar checks.
06:04But of course, at an American airport, there's plenty of space relative to, say, 200 people
06:10on an airliner.
06:12There's a real lack of space relative to 10,000 cars that go through the Port of Dover some
06:17weekends.
06:18So I'm afraid the ball is in the court of the national government to tell us how they
06:21are going to fix it.
06:22But my view is a long-term solution is a better and different relationship where we
06:27take barriers down rather than building barriers up.
06:30Kevin, what do you make of that?
06:32Do you think there should be a closer relationship with the EU on this?
06:36Obviously, we understand the government are working hard to address the issues ahead of
06:40November.
06:41But obviously, do you think there needs to be a more open-minded approach going forward?
06:45There's got to be.
06:46It's the only way you'll get any resolution to it, because at the end of the day, whether
06:50people want it or didn't want it, every decision has a consequence.
06:54The consequence of the decision we made several years ago would be they would be bringing
06:58in some form of system.
07:00And let's not forget, I mean, we were saying protect our borders, or that was the dialogue
07:04coming out.
07:06And this is about Europe protecting its borders.
07:08So it's not that different in a lot of ways.
07:10And yes, we should have anticipated.
07:12Now, Eurotunnel will say they are ready.
07:15They have different issues than Dover.
07:18I think Dover is really a concern.
07:21And the other thing is the Department of Transport keeps saying, well, we're looking to provide
07:24sort of off-road parking, lorry parks, call them what you want.
07:27But, you know, nothing's going to be quick.
07:30Dover Harbour Board are waiting for a levelling up fund of £40 billion plus.
07:35But even if they get that, it's still going to be several years away before that comes
07:38to fruition.
07:39I mean, I'm going to be perfectly honest, and I've consistently said this from the point
07:42of view of Dover, if you need to take vehicles off the road, the place to do that is Sevington.
07:48So obviously a lot to discuss here, but...
07:51Huge amounts.
07:52A huge amount.
07:53We could probably talk about this all programme.
07:54But we've got to move on to our next topic in channel-related news, because this week
07:59former Met Police Martin Stewart has been appointed to lead the UK's new border security
08:04command to tackle small boat crossings to Kent.
08:07It comes in the week where Sakhir Starmer suggested he would analyse Italy's asylum
08:11process in deal with Albania during a visit to Rome.
08:15What's the reaction been here in the county?
08:17Well, we spoke to Dover migrant charity Soundfire to get their take on the direction of the
08:22government's policies.
08:24I think most people, especially on our side, were hoping that the new government would
08:28bring safer legal routes, or at least bring that conversation to the table in a serious
08:33way.
08:34It feels like Sakhir Starmer has pretty much taken safer legal routes off the table entirely,
08:39and he's reverting back to the Tory idea of deterrence working, which they absolutely
08:44don't.
08:46Well, we heard there a lot of scepticism from Soundfire about the government's direction
08:53of travel.
08:54And, Kevin, I want to go to you on this in just a second, because obviously this is a
08:59Labour government and they are obviously quite concerned about whether or not a deterrent-based
09:06approach is going to work, or perhaps safer routes might work.
09:09What do you make of it?
09:10I mean, I always have a concern about deterrence, because, you know, you go to prison for robbing
09:15banks, but people still rob banks.
09:16I mean, it's, you know, again, this comes back to there needs to be an international
09:20solution to a lot of these issues, because, you know, in isolation we can't do it.
09:24We hear certain parties saying, send them all back to France.
09:27Well, the legality is you can't do that.
09:31I am still confused, and I declare an interest here because I still work for Border Force,
09:37but as a trade union official, which I can speak on behalf of, you know, we've got this
09:41strategic border command.
09:42Well, you know, we know nothing about it.
09:45No one actually fully understands what it's being set up to do.
09:49I think, you know, obviously smash organised crime, but to some extent we've been trying
09:52to do that since Napoleonic times when they've been smuggling.
09:56We've been trying to smash organised crime, you know, for groups that are smuggling drugs
10:00into the country.
10:01And, you know, sadly we've got a major problem in this country about that, but people forget
10:04about that because, you know, migrants seem to be a bigger issue.
10:08You know, we need to look at the process and we need to look up, look at the speed at which
10:14people are processed because it needs to be a much more timely, smooth flow from, you
10:18know, when they arrive to when they're processed to those that can stay should stay, those
10:24that can't, then you move them on.
10:26But, you know, there is no simple solution to it.
10:29That's the real difficulty.
10:30And my real concern is the numbers we see now are nothing compared to the numbers we'll
10:35see in the future.
10:36And that will be because of, you know, just global warming alone will stop people being
10:42able to eat, stop growth of crops, etc.
10:45And that will force tens of thousands of people to move out of certain areas.
10:50So, you know, this is an issue that we need to deal with because it isn't going away.
10:54It is definitely a serious concern for the county and is a serious concern for you, Anthony,
10:58up in Faversham and Mid Kent.
11:00Obviously, there's a lot on the south coast, but it will have an impact on the wider county
11:04as well.
11:06It will. I thought Kevin's last point was extremely important.
11:10This is yet another area where we need to if we're thinking local, we need to think
11:14global at the same time.
11:16It's why international development is really important, because as there's more instability
11:22in the world, whether it's environmental, as Kevin mentioned, or war and disorder that
11:27displaces people.
11:28And around 10 years ago when the civil war was happening in Syria, there was evidence
11:33that Russia's bombing was done deliberately in a way to destroy people's homes and create
11:39refugee populations who would come into Europe.
11:41Well, Anthony, sorry to cut you off here, but obviously the refugee crisis is a major
11:46impact on migration.
11:47But we will be back after the break with more political headlines just for Kent.
15:03Welcome back to the Kent Politics Show live on KMTV, the show that gets Kent's politicians
15:13talking. I'm still joined by Kevin Mills, the Labour leader at Dover District Council,
15:18and Anthony Hope, the leader of the Liberal Democrat group at Kent County Council.
15:23And now I'm wondering, do you want a glimpse of the future?
15:27Well, that's what party conference season is all about, as our politicians in Westminster
15:31and beyond take a moment to breathe and outline their plans for next year.
15:36With the Reform Party conference starting today, the Liberal Democrat conference just
15:40wrapped up. What vision does each political party have for the county and for Kent?
15:45Well, for Lib Dem leader Ed Davey, all eyes on the local elections next year.
15:51And what a great chance we have next May at county council elections in places like
15:56Devon and Surrey, places with Conservative councils that have let people down for far
16:01too long, places where we did rather well in July
16:06and where we could do even better next time.
16:10Well, Anthony, I want to go to you on this one first, because obviously, as a KCC
16:14councillor and with those local elections coming up next year, are you confident the
16:18Liberal Democrats can make some inroads?
16:20You did win your first Liberal Democrat MP in Tunbridge Wells earlier this year.
16:26We did, Mike Martin, who is going to be an outstanding member of Parliament.
16:30And getting your first is often the hardest.
16:33So I think there's great potential for Lib Dems across Kent.
16:37And I'm very excited about the county council elections next year.
16:42I think there is a very strong chance, not a certainty, but a strong chance of us
16:48ending Conservative control of Kent County Council for the first time since 1997
16:55and for only the second time in a century.
16:58I think that Kent will go to no overall control.
17:02And I would hope that the non-Conservative parties, Labour and the Lib Dems, will be
17:06able to work together to change things and make Kent move in a progressive direction.
17:11But these things don't happen automatically.
17:13They take hard work.
17:15And right now we're recruiting candidates, people who really care about their local
17:19communities and care about Kent and want to be part of making a difference and are in
17:24a position to serve as a councillor, to fight seats and to win them and to serve for four
17:30years as county councillors and to be part of, as I say, that change of control we hope to see.
17:36Kevin, are you confident as well?
17:38Obviously, you are a district councillor, but KCC is a big deal.
17:42Are you confident you could potentially take Kent County Council out of no overall control?
17:49I think we can take it away from the Conservative control, which it currently is.
17:53And I agree with Anthony.
17:54I think, you know, we saw a wind of change in July.
17:59There is still a taste out there for change, be it to whatever party, but tends to be away from the
18:04Conservatives. So, yeah, I can see some change.
18:08And, you know, let's not forget that I have to say I think there's possibly been a degree of
18:13mismanagement by the current administration at KCC.
18:16They're anywhere up to about £100 million in debt.
18:20We're seeing a withdrawal from a number of services.
18:25We're seeing some services being pushed down to district council without any money and then
18:29anything that may raise money at district council that KCC think they can take back being taken
18:33back. But, you know, the public will see cuts on the scale they've never seen before, in my
18:39opinion, from KCC.
18:41And they will just retreat to doing just their core essential work, nothing else.
18:45And then the public lose out and somebody else has to pick that ball up and run with it.
18:49So, yeah, I think we will see change.
18:52It's difficult to predict how, but I think we'll go to know.
18:55Well, KCC obviously aren't here to defend themselves and they are facing some difficult
18:59decisions. That's what they told us in previous weeks.
19:02But, Anthony, I want to go back to you quickly, because obviously with your conference this
19:06week, what did you make of it?
19:07There's a lot of singing, a lot of noise.
19:10Do you think it actually outlined a clear vision for the future for the Democrats or do you
19:16think there's a lot of a lot of party political point scoring?
19:21There was a really good, upbeat feeling, as you would expect from a party that's gone
19:27from, I can't remember now, approximately 12 MPs to 72.
19:31And that's a huge jump forward.
19:34And 10 years ago, people were questioning whether the party would even continue to exist.
19:38Ed Davey just had a fantastic election, really connected with people and our candidates did
19:44really well, too.
19:45But there's a lot about substance, too.
19:48Carers are front and centre of our policy emphasis, because Ed himself was a carer,
19:54both as a child and as an adult now with his disabled son, which he talked about a lot
19:59during the election. And at the Lib Dem conference, we have the kind of conference where
20:03members propose and make policy.
20:06The policy isn't dictated down from above by the leadership.
20:10And there were debates on adult social care, on maternity services, which is very
20:15relevant to Kent, because our maternity services have been very poor in recent years in
20:21Kent and on the NHS and fixing the crisis in the NHS.
20:25And obviously, we've heard a lot about NHS reforms in the last couple of weeks,
20:29specifically from the Labour government, which I wanted to bring you on to, Kevin, because
20:32obviously we do have the Labour conference happening this weekend.
20:37Will you be attending?
20:39Are you confident about what's going to be happening?
20:41Most certainly not attending.
20:42No, I've got other things planned this weekend, but I do obviously know our representatives.
20:47I'll be watching it. I'll be very interested to hear, because although I'm not going,
20:52you know, I'm hoping to hear from them things about the health service, things about
20:57social care, things that mean a lot to us at district council level and county council
21:02level. I'm sure they'll give us a bit more light on devolution.
21:07Which is something that's sort of coming around the corner in Kent.
21:10But I'm really interested to hear what they have to say about housing, because this
21:15country's gone past the housing crisis.
21:17That was several years ago.
21:19You know, we've got to make some serious decisions about right to buy.
21:23We've got to start front loading and getting Homes England to support local councils to
21:27actually build. We are desperate to build in our district.
21:30And that's not just our district, that's everywhere because of the temporary
21:34accommodation bills are causing major issues for councils.
21:38And, you know, we've got a situation whereby we used to have 10,000 houses.
21:42We're down to 4,000 now because of the right to buy.
21:46But we've not been able to replace them.
21:48And, you know, we're going to have to make some serious decision.
21:50That might have to be, do we actually stop the right to buy?
21:53Yeah, that is a big question for conference this year.
21:56Obviously, with the national policy framework changing earlier this year as well, lots of
22:00questions about housing.
22:01But in other Labour news, reporting from Sky and Tortoise Media has revealed the
22:06Prime Minister Keir Starmer accepted £100,000 worth of gifts since 2019.
22:12It follows a report from The Sunday Times revealing the PM has breached
22:16parliamentary rules by failing to declare expensive clothes bought for his wife by
22:21Labour donor Lord Alley.
22:23The Prime Minister says all MPs get gifts.
22:26But what do the people of Rochester make of it all?
22:28Someone who gets a salary of £167,000 to accept gifts like that because he wants to
22:36go and see Arsenal.
22:37I'm an Arsenal fan and I don't go and see them every week.
22:42And if I want to go, I have to pay for it.
22:45It's not right.
22:46It's a bit of a joke, really.
22:48But there we are.
22:48Epicritical, isn't it?
22:49I just think it's so two-faced.
22:53They say that to us as voters hoping to get our vote and then we find out they've done
23:00the exact opposite themselves.
23:02So, no, I don't think it's right at all.
23:04I haven't really got an opinion on it.
23:06I guess perks of the job.
23:10Well, Kevin, do you agree with that?
23:11Is it just perks of the job?
23:13Is all these gifts a little too much?
23:15A little, particularly after the winter fuel allowance cuts as well.
23:19Is it a little bit too rich for the Prime Minister on this?
23:21I mean, I've always come from the position that there's never a free meal in politics.
23:26So whenever you get something, I'm always concerned what they actually want in return.
23:30And I'm sure I've been invited out.
23:32I've had books given to me.
23:33We all declare it.
23:34I'm sure Anthony's no different.
23:35But there is a scale where, to me, it starts to tip over the edge somewhat.
23:42Because, you know, we're here to represent the people.
23:45But at the same time, there are individuals still going through a cost of living crisis.
23:48It's wrong for us to say this is what we're going to do.
23:50When, you know, some of the scale of some of the gifts far exceed that.
23:56But I think it goes further than that.
23:58I mean, I'll be honest.
23:59I've always been an advocate.
24:00I'd pay MPs more.
24:02But I'll be very clear.
24:03That's what you get.
24:04You do not get any other bungs from companies, organisations, selling your soul to the newspapers or TV companies.
24:12You are paid to do that job because it's a full time job.
24:16You know, I think a lot of people join and become an MP.
24:19I'm going to be perfectly honest, because it's the biggest skeleton key in the cupboard.
24:22Once you've got those letters, it opens up so many doors for you.
24:25And that's wrong.
24:26So, you know, we need to be very careful about it.
24:29Gifts will always exist.
24:31But there's got to be a point at which you say, actually, enough's enough because of the sheer scale of it.
24:36Anthony, I'm sure the KCC council, you understand firsthand what this culture of gifting can be like.
24:41Are you sceptical?
24:42Do you think it's just more Westminster sleaze we've heard about in recent years?
24:47Well, I'm not sure about your first comment.
24:49I mean, I don't think KCC council has received gifts, not as far as I know.
24:53So it's not something I know about in that way.
24:56I'm really surprised at Keir Starmer.
24:57I've got a lot of respect for Keir Starmer.
25:00And I think he says he wants to be serious in a government of service.
25:05And I think we've got to take that at face value and expect to see that.
25:08And we remember the gross sleaze, particularly the Boris Johnson years, when donors, there was an orcharism for a donor
25:15chucking hundreds of thousands of Boris Johnson to redecorate the Downing Street flat.
25:21And I think we need to learn from that.
25:23As Kevin's right, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
25:26People will usually expect something.
25:28Eventually, there'll be strings attached somewhere down the road a lot of the time.
25:32And so I think Keir Starmer has made a mistake on this one.
25:36And I think he needs to say, I've got a good salary, no more big gifts.
25:41Thank you very much.
25:42Because obviously, he does say it's a good standards process for accepting donations.
25:46He has to declare everything.
25:47That's how he found out about it from Sky's reporting.
25:51But it does raise a question.
25:52Obviously, I know Tracey Crouch, the former Chatham MP, talking about creating a football regulator.
25:57It's going through Parliament.
25:58It's received a lot of money from the Premier League in regards to football tickets.
26:02Very quickly, what do you guys make of that?
26:03Do you think it's going to taint the potential of these reforms?
26:07Well, I remember when there was advertising of tobacco in Formula One was a big controversy.
26:13It's been about 20 years now.
26:15And there was a lot of outcry about Bernie Eccleston giving a million pounds to the party
26:19of government at the time.
26:21And they returned the donation.
26:23And I think it's a very similar situation.
26:25If our politicians right now are looking at should football be regulated, then it can't
26:31be right for the prime minister to be receiving an executive box or some kind of hospitality
26:37of this kind from one of the Premier League football clubs.
26:40And I know he likes football.
26:42I think we kind of get the sense of the question.
26:44We'll have to leave it there.
26:45Lots of talk about.
26:46Thank you both for joining me.
26:48We'll be back next week with more of Kent's political news.