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00:00from 925 text in, are we really looking at wives
00:03and girlfriends, IG accounts to dictate
00:06where players are playing now?
00:08Let me see how clearly I can answer this.
00:10Yes, yes, like I know it's uncomfortable for some of us,
00:15but the bottom line is, is there is a track record,
00:18there is a history now of how messaging is sent
00:23is sent in professional sports by athletes
00:28in their 20s and 30s.
00:30Like that is where we communicate.
00:33And so if Fred Warner's wife is throwing a party
00:38for Dre Greenlaw's girl and holding up 57 balloons
00:43and writing on there, well, that's such a bummer,
00:46we missed the playoffs and your best friend's leaving
00:48for through free agency.
00:50I mean, like, I don't know how clear,
00:52how much clearer this could be.
00:54It's pretty clear.
00:55And I'm not saying that means it's done,
00:57but that's clearly what Sidney Warner thinks is happening.
01:00Well, it's an indication sensation is what it is,
01:02because you get to this point and like you said,
01:06if you're Dre Greenlaw and you fought so hard to get back
01:09and you made it back for a half and you played a half
01:12and you were unbelievably good and then you got hurt
01:15and Devandre Campbell said, nah, I'm good.
01:18And then Greenlaw wasn't good enough to play
01:20the rest of the year.
01:21You get to the end of the year and you go, guys,
01:23I mean, yeah, wow, what a year for us, right?
01:26I mean, I fought back to be able to play again.
01:29What do you guys think?
01:30And they look at Dre Greenlaw and they go,
01:32Dre, I think that you can get more somewhere else.
01:35We've got Dee Winters and we've got a couple
01:38of other younger linebackers that we probably
01:40are gonna look at instead.
01:42Dre, you're gonna always be in our heart,
01:45but you know what?
01:46We're not gonna give you what you can get.
01:48We'd be willing to give you the vet men
01:51and Greenlaw's probably looking at something
01:54closer to what he made last time around,
01:56which was about seven and a half million a year.
01:58I don't know.
01:58I mean, yeah, it's a difficult, dicey sort of contract
02:01to figure out, but somebody who's got a lot of space
02:04is probably willing to take more of a risk.
02:07Maybe that's it.
02:09I just think, I think it's a huge mistake.
02:12And I say that without knowing the ins and outs
02:14of the health situation.
02:16Can't wait.
02:17I mean, my first question to Doc Pandia next hour,
02:20no doubt about it, but the Niners are running to me
02:23a huge, huge risk here.
02:24These mother bleepers act like they forgot about Dre.
02:27I would not do this.
02:29I would not let this guy leave the building.
02:32Yeah, I would if I thought that his best years
02:35were behind us.
02:36And I'm thinking about the linebacker who preceded him,
02:40who was not the same player.
02:42Don't get me wrong.
02:43Don't get it twisted, but they had a guy named
02:45Aziz Al-Shayer, who was a good linebacker
02:48alongside Fred Warner, and he wanted free agent money,
02:52and he got it.
02:53He got three years and 34 million with the Texans.
02:55With the Houston Texans.
02:56And he has been, he's been fine.
02:58No, he's been good.
02:59He hasn't been Dre Greenlaw,
03:01and he hasn't been as good as he was here.
03:03I don't think he went straight to Houston.
03:04Didn't he go to Tennessee first?
03:05He might have gone to Tennessee.
03:06I think he followed Rand Carthon to Tennessee.
03:09Yeah, oh, correct.
03:09I think it's, yeah.
03:10He went to Tennessee.
03:11There's one year and five million to Tennessee,
03:12and then he got three and 34.
03:14He's a good player.
03:15He's a good player, but yeah.
03:16He's fine.
03:17No, I think he's a good player, but I.
03:18He's been in the news lately,
03:19because he got suspended for the hit on Trevor Lawrence.
03:21He was the one who whacked Trevor Lawrence real bad
03:24in that concussion play.
03:25And maybe you look at Dre Greenlaw now,
03:28and you think that Dre Greenlaw's not gonna be
03:30what Dre Greenlaw was, and so it makes it an easy call.
03:34You're not gonna give Dre Greenlaw eight million a year,
03:36and if Dre thinks that he's worth eight million a year,
03:39then go out there and get it.
03:41I mean, a healthy Dre Greenlaw's worth a hell of a lot more.
03:44A healthy Dre Greenlaw.
03:45Yeah, but I mean, how can you?
03:47I don't know how you could sit here in January
03:49and project that this person's definitely
03:52not gonna be healthy next year.
03:54This is the same regime that was told,
03:56do not re-sign Jimmy Ward as your safety.
04:00Don't do this.
04:01Jimmy didn't have an Achilles.
04:02Doesn't matter.
04:03It does matter, and that's all that matters.
04:05He had repeated injuries, and you're acting like
04:07no one's ever come back from an Achilles before.
04:09I'm not saying Aaron Rodgers played well, but he's 40.
04:12He just played the whole year.
04:13A quarterback versus a linebacker, it's totally different.
04:16Yeah, but an Achilles injury at age whatever he is,
04:1920-something, he's still very young.
04:22Like, I don't know how you would sit here today
04:25and know that in September,
04:27this person's not gonna be healthy.
04:29Well, you're not gonna know anything.
04:30Is McCaffrey gonna be healthy?
04:31Well, no, but-
04:32Is Trent gonna be healthy?
04:33You don't know.
04:34Well, right, so therefore, you won't sign anyone
04:37if you look at it that way.
04:38No, but you have to play the percentages,
04:40and you have to put a value on it.
04:42And I would argue that in the world of projecting
04:46that people will be healthy down the road
04:49because that's likely, more likely than not,
04:52I would keep this guy in the building.
04:55I don't even know what other teams are offering.
04:58Obviously, there's no offer at all yet.
05:00Not officially.
05:01I'm sure his agent has spoken to teams
05:04and has an idea of what those teams might be willing to do.
05:07Maybe the Niners aren't willing to do it.
05:10I sit here as a lay person who's not a doctor
05:13and go, reasonably, I would assume this person
05:17can be healthy by September, and if so,
05:20this injury, I would argue, likely gives you
05:23a chance to get Dre on the cheap.
05:26If Dre hadn't got hurt, what would this deal be?
05:29What would this deal be if he had finished the Super Bowl
05:31and then had another good year this year?
05:33This deal would be through the roof.
05:34Well, you wouldn't sign him then
05:36because you're looking at a spot where
05:38if you go six and 11 with a healthy Dre Greenlaw
05:41and he's good, then you're definitely not gonna sign him.
05:44And last contract he signed was eight million a year,
05:47and I'm sure that he's looking for money
05:50that is probably in that ballpark.
05:52And if he's healthy, is he worth eight million?
05:55Absolutely, but you already have a high-paid linebacker
05:58and you can't pay everyone,
06:00and so you have a guy coming off injury
06:02who played in two games.
06:04Really, he played about three quarters of a game,
06:06and you've got young linebackers that you've drafted,
06:09and so when you start to look at areas
06:11where you can maybe replace a guy,
06:14it's gonna be hard choices.
06:16They have to be made.
06:16No doubt, this is not one that I would choose.
06:18That's all I'm saying.
06:19I mean, to me, if you can get Dre Greenlaw
06:22for eight million a year, holy hell, what a deal.
06:24And by the way, outside of Fred Warner's
06:27first six games this year,
06:28I don't know if I saw a 49er linebacker on TV all year long.
06:32I don't wanna hear about anybody else in this building.
06:36They stunk.
06:37Devondre Campbell, you stunk and you were offensive.
06:40Dee Winters, you were interesting at times.
06:43You kept getting hurt.
06:44So by the way, why would we think he's gonna be healthy?
06:46Fred Warner just played the whole year with a broken ankle.
06:49Why are we thinking he's gonna be healthy?
06:51Well, he was healthy all year.
06:52He wasn't.
06:53He played in every game but one.
06:54And did not play nearly at Fred Warner level
06:56after the first six games of the year.
06:58He's a pro bowler, so.
06:59Yeah, because he's Fred Warner.
07:00Some people thought that Fred Warner was good enough.
07:02Because he's Fred Warner.
07:03My point is is the linebacking core
07:06was woefully underperforming all year long.
07:09He was your second best defensive player all year.
07:11Yeah, because he's Fred.
07:12And because we're spotlighting
07:14when we were having DPOY talk week six.
07:17And then how many turnovers did they get?
07:20None for like literally the entire second half of the year.
07:23And linebackers have a big deal when it comes to turnovers.
07:27They get picks, they force fumbles.
07:28That group did none of it.
07:30So if we're gonna sit here and go,
07:31someone who's hurt can't be healthy,
07:33well, I'm gonna let them all go.
07:35To me, this is an opportunity to get a known quantity,
07:39a wildly talented and emotionally connected
07:43locker room player at a cheap price.
07:45You don't know how cheap the price would be.
07:47It's cheaper than it would have been for that talent.
07:50That's all I'm saying.
07:51We've watched teams do this.
07:52They look for opportunities to find guys coming off injury
07:56because you get them for value.
07:58It doesn't always work, but sometimes it does.
08:01Anyway, I can't.
08:02Sometimes it doesn't.
08:03And you're in a spot where you're gonna try
08:04to pay your quarterback, whatever, 50 plus million.
08:07And I know it doesn't kick in this year,
08:09but you've got an edge rusher.
08:11You've got a couple of defensive tackles.
08:13You've got a couple of offensive linemen.
08:15You've got a safety.
08:16You've got a lot of other people you need to pay.
08:19And yeah, you have a couple of younger linebackers
08:21that you think that maybe you can slot in.
08:23I look at Dre Greenlaw who blew out one Achilles
08:26and then immediately had calf injuries on the other side.
08:30He's got knee issues.
08:31And it might be a situation where he's never healthy again.
08:34And for me, I look at a guy, not for what he's done,
08:38but what is he going to do?
08:39And maybe what you think that he's going to do
08:41is not nearly as good as what he has done.
08:43Well, and again, if the price is somewhere around
08:47where he was right now, to me, that is all I'm saying.
08:50That is a worthy risk.
08:52That is a risk that I would take
08:54because the idea, again, it's football.
08:56The idea that someone being hurt means that like,
09:00oh, I don't know where this is going to go next.
09:01That's all of them.
09:03That's all of them.
09:04Fred Warner played on a broken ankle.
09:06Cool.
09:06Dre Greenlaw maybe tried to come back a little quick.
09:09We always know, Doc tells us every week,
09:11those major injuries, your first year back,
09:14you're not yourself.
09:15You're not yourself.
09:16The second year back, you are.
09:18And that's what I would bet on.
09:19That's all I'm saying.
09:20I would bet on that with Dre Greenlaw.
09:22Now, if the Saints are sitting there telling his agent
09:25that we're going to break him off 22 million a year,
09:27okay, fine.
09:29But I doubt it.
09:30I doubt that.
09:31That's all.
09:32Like, it's stunning to me that this was presented
09:36by Sidney Warner so firmly like,
09:40and done like fait accompli on January 7th.
09:45We're having a party for the Greenlaw family
09:48because they're heading out of town on January 7th.
09:51I'm like, wait, already?
09:54Well, she could be negotiating through the media.
09:56I mean, at the same time.
09:57Sidney, for Dre, like, she not even-
10:01Chestnut checkers, I mean.
10:03Maybe, maybe.
10:04I have no, look, again,
10:06maybe it's not going to work out that way.
10:09But this shook me a little bit.
10:12To see it on January 7th, I thought was wild.
10:15I was a little surprised by that.
10:16But when you look at it,
10:18if I take a step back and look at it
10:20from a football standpoint,
10:21forget the fact that he's been a great emotional leader.
10:25This guy played about 74 snaps this year and he got hurt.
10:30He came back off an injury and had two other injuries
10:33that were not related to the one injury.
10:35And so now you've got a guy with maybe another Achilles
10:38and it was the Achilles that was hurt last year.
10:40And then he blew out the other one.
10:42And now you had a sore knee
10:43and you couldn't play the last couple of games
10:45where you would have wanted to showcase him.
10:48And it's because of injury and it sucks.
10:50It's sad, but I don't want to pay him
10:52eight or $10 million a year.
10:55And if he can go out and get that, go get that.
10:57I don't think he can.
10:58I do, I do.
10:59I mean, what'd they pay Campbell this year?
11:01I mean, Randy, do you know that off the top?
11:05Devondre Campbell?
11:06Yes.
11:07I'm just scrolling through the list right now.
11:10Devondre Campbell contract, here it is.
11:13I got it right here.
11:14Okay, he got a 5 million this year.
11:16He got 5 million.
11:17For one year.
11:18You're right.
11:19And you wouldn't give a few more million to Dre Greenlaw?
11:23Like, and again, I don't know what the numbers are.
11:26No.
11:27Yeah, boy, I would.
11:28Good Lord, I would.
11:29To me, that's such a worthwhile risk.
11:31Let's go to Allen in Marin.
11:32Hey, Allen, thanks for calling.
11:34What's up?
11:36What's up, guys?
11:38Yeah, as an objective football fan
11:41who doesn't wear Niner underwear or pajamas,
11:46I just want to offer an agreement with Willie on,
11:50with an asterisk.
11:52I would give him something.
11:54I would not give him anything long-term.
11:56I'm with Bibbly on that point
11:58that it's just too big of a risk
12:00to give him anything long-term.
12:02And I wish he wouldn't have come back this year
12:04because if you think back to Navarro Bowman,
12:07after that gruesome injury when his ankle got bended
12:10back to a zero in the NFC title game,
12:12can you shout out, I know there are two different injuries.
12:14I know it's not an Achilles,
12:17but he shot out the entire 2014 season.
12:19And when he came back in 2015,
12:21he led the league in tackles on a really bad team.
12:24So he proved himself.
12:28Again, the next year is when his drop-off was.
12:31He didn't perform in 2016.
12:33They released him.
12:34His career was pretty much over after that.
12:36I mean, I'd give him 10 million for maybe two years,
12:41but I don't even think of another comp
12:44as a linebacker with an Achilles injury
12:46other than him or Quan Alexander.
12:48Quan looks like a shell of himself this year
12:51after tearing his Achilles last year,
12:54even though he was probably on the downside
12:56of his career with the Steelers last year anyways,
12:58but it's just too big of a risk for long-term.
13:01Give him some, don't let him walk.
13:03I'm with you on that, Willard.
13:04Don't let him walk,
13:05but you can't give him a four-year contract.
13:08You can't do that.
13:09Alan, thanks.
13:09I mean, we're all talking kind of out of our wahoo right now
13:13because I have no idea what's being asked for
13:16in terms of years and dollars.
13:19I'm talking more in a general sense.
13:21Alan, I get it.
13:22Look, all of these things come with a risk.
13:24They all do.
13:27You know, I think of all the times
13:29the 49ers have done this,
13:30and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
13:33Two players on the defense,
13:35now neither of them are linebackers,
13:36are popping into my head right now.
13:38Now, when the 49ers re-signed Jimmy Ward,
13:41they got absolutely ripped.
13:44That guy cannot stay healthy.
13:45And my God, it was a great signing.
13:48It was wonderful bringing back Jimmy Ward.
13:49He was great for the team,
13:51and he was a key in some runs very deep in the playoffs.
13:55Another time, I mean, I literally had a 49er exec
13:58look at me and go,
13:59million dollars to, thank you,
14:02a million dollars as a flyer to bring in Jason Verrett.
14:06Why not?
14:07Why not?
14:08And then that blew up in their face.
14:10A million dollar flyer.
14:11And then it didn't.
14:12And he actually had a wonderful year,
14:15and then he got hurt again,
14:16and his career's over, and all of that stuff.
14:19So there was some good-
14:20A wonderful year, he played like four games,
14:21didn't he, that year?
14:22No, no, no.
14:23Verrett, the first year.
14:23And then they brought him back again,
14:25and he had a Pro Bowl season.
14:27And then he got hurt a year or two after that.
14:30His career was totally marred by injuries.
14:33But the idea, again,
14:35and this is what I want to ask Doc next hour.
14:37The idea that Dre Greenlaw, at this age,
14:41who has, I would argue, only had one major injury,
14:46because they all have injuries.
14:48Like, he's damaged goods now?
14:50I don't see it that way.
14:52Well, depends on how you want to look at it.
14:54And I'm looking at the Jason Verrett,
14:55and he was a Pro Bowler with the Chargers back in 2015.
15:00With the Niners, he played one game, 13,
15:03one game, torn Achilles, one game.
15:06Yeah, the 13-game year, he was fantastic.
15:09He was fantastic that year.
15:11He was okay.
15:12He was not a starter.
15:13No, look it up.
15:14He was fantastic.
15:15In 2020 for a terrible team.
15:16Did he not make the Pro Bowl?
15:17He did not make the Pro Bowl.
15:18Okay, he was fantastic.
15:19He did not make the Pro Bowl.
15:20He was fine.
15:21He played a whole year.
15:21He was fine.
15:22I don't want to devolve this into a Jason Verrett.
15:26I remember the conversations about Jason Verrett.
15:27He was amazing that year.
15:28Relative to what he had been, it was an amazing story.
15:31He's a Bay Area kid.
15:32I don't want to sit here and disparage his comeback story,
15:35because he came back from like five different
15:38career-ending injuries.
15:39The greater point for me is, when you have a guy
15:42coming off a torn Achilles in a 360-degree swivel spot,
15:47he's going to be lesser of a player.
15:50I would rather not invest eight or 10 million,
15:52even for one year, on a guy that I don't know
15:55can be healthy and be the kind of player
15:58that I need him to be.
15:59Let's go next to Jamie in Oakland.
16:03Hi Jamie, thank you for calling.
16:06Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.
16:08Yeah, what's up?
16:09Yeah, well, you know, I am exactly where you both are.
16:14Part of me is like, this guy is way more
16:16than just a player.
16:18He's like the kiddle of the defense,
16:20in terms of motivation, all that stuff
16:23that you can't write up on a sheet.
16:26He's just an amazing human being,
16:28and losing him, I think, was impactful,
16:32not just losing his play, but losing him on the field,
16:35being that incredible sport club that he is.
16:39I think guys play different when he's out there.
16:41Yet, an Achilles, a torn Achilles, is no joke.
16:45There probably won't be the same amount
16:48of strength and mobility in that 360
16:51kind of thing that he needs.
16:53But I'm like, let's do a year or two,
16:56give him some good money, and you know what?
16:58If after a year, he can't play anymore,
17:01then we're done.
17:02But I feel like you have to honor that guy.
17:04You can't just let him go.
17:06So wrong.
17:07Yeah, Jamie, I'm with you.
17:09Thank you so much.
17:10It's not that I can't sit here and acknowledge
17:13that there's a bit of a roll of the dice.
17:14I just sort of feel like that's omnipresent.
17:17I mean, I don't know, is Kevin Durant
17:19still playing basketball?
17:21Did Terrell Suggs not help bring the Ravens
17:23to a Super Bowl?
17:24In fact, six months after tearing an Achilles,
17:27did 40-year-old Aaron Rodgers play a full season this year?
17:30He played a full season.
17:32He played.
17:33How was he?
17:34He's 40.
17:34He stinks.
17:35Right, he stunk before the torn Achilles,
17:38if you really look at the numbers.
17:39So if you want to bring back-
17:40I'm just talking about, can you come back and be you?
17:43Of course you can.
17:44But if you look at the cost-benefit analysis
17:47of a guy coming off an Achilles
17:49who has another calf strain on the other side
17:52and a knee issue, and you want to bring him back,
17:54you can do it.
17:55I'm not saying that you shouldn't do it.
17:57And I would imagine that when they talked to Dre Greenlaw,
18:00they probably said, Dre, we'd love to have you back.
18:03And I would bet you that they gave him an idea
18:05of where they saw him in terms of a contract.
18:08And he probably said, hold on, let me call my wife.
18:11Honey, get the balloons, because I'm out of here.
18:13Start the party.
18:14Right, start the party,
18:15because where the player thinks he is
18:17and where the team thinks he is, is maybe a wide gulf.
18:21And you know what, Mark?
18:23It's okay.
18:24It's okay for him to think that he can get
18:26Aziz Al-Shair money, and he probably can.
18:29I mean, yeah, he probably-
18:30Three years and 30 million.
18:32Can he get three and 30 somewhere
18:34and 12 million guaranteed?
18:34He should get three and 30 here.
18:36That's not that much.
18:38Well, it is when you're looking at what you're faced with.
18:41And I mean, a lot of times you want to talk about
18:43cap schmaps.
18:43Yesterday, you were talking about how the Niners
18:45have the most cap space in the NFL this year.
18:47They do, but when you want to allocate it,
18:49you don't want to allocate it for a question mark linebacker
18:53who's been great, but he's not great right now.
18:55I think who you're bringing in is a bigger question mark,
18:59because any one of them are coming off of injuries
19:02or injury risks.
19:03And I don't know how many NFL players out there
19:06have the ceiling at the linebacker position
19:08that Dre Greenlaw does.
19:10I just don't-
19:11Is his ceiling still the same,
19:12or did the upper floor of the house collapse?
19:15I would argue at age 28, the ceiling is still the same.
19:17Yes.
19:18I would argue that the ceiling is not the ceiling
19:20when you've had an Achilles injury
19:22and you have a calf strain that who knows
19:25what it could be on the other side.
19:27Calf strain, yeah.
19:27He said that before he blew out the other Achilles.
19:29Understood, but a calf strain, like my gosh,
19:32the NFL-
19:33We know what calf strains can blossom into.
19:35Yeah, we also know that most of them are just calf strains,
19:38and then you go play.
19:40Nick in the city next here on Willard and Dibbs.
19:42Hi, Nick, what's up?
19:45Hey guys, thanks for taking the call here.
19:48Really quick, do you see what JK Dobbins is doing
19:50down in LA?
19:51He's coming off a torn Achilles.
19:53And a torn ACL, and a torn ACL before that, Nick.
19:58And he wasn't all pro before that.
20:00So what, here's what I'm saying is like,
20:02I think it's silly to say that the Niners
20:05should pinch pennies over this,
20:06but at the same time, they're fiscally conservative.
20:09I think all this is a negotiation play.
20:11Sydney Warner's in the media, she has a podcast.
20:14This is posturing to get the public on the side,
20:18light a fire, similar to Debo, similar to IU.
20:20Niners are gonna draw it out as they always do
20:22and get the deal done.
20:23This is to enrage the Niners fan base, I think,
20:26as a negotiation ploy.
20:28We'd love to hear your thoughts, love your work.
20:29Have a good one, gentlemen.
20:30Nick, thank you.
20:31Yeah, thank you, Nick.
20:32Yeah, JK Dobbins has played 22 games
20:35in the last four years, four years.
20:38That's unfair, that's not the point he's making.
20:40The torn Achilles was just last year.
20:43Yeah, but the knee injury was before that.
20:44Right, and he looks good this year.
20:46He's played very good football this year.
20:47He's played 13 games.
20:48Yeah, and he's played well.
20:49And he's sat out the last four games due to injury.
20:51And he's been fantastic when he plays.
20:53He's been good, but he's been injured.
20:56So to say that he came back and he's been like,
21:00oh, he's been magic since the Achilles, that's just wrong.
21:03Nobody said that.
21:04That's what he was alluding to.
21:06No, you can come back and be yourself.
21:09You can come back and be yourself.
21:11And you can come back and not be yourself.
21:12Sure, so let's not sign anyone.
21:15Because oh my God, they could get hurt.
21:18You sound, Andre Greenwald, like my mom does
21:21when she's going to the airport.
21:22We better leave at five.
21:25Honey, it's a 30 minute drive.
21:28Let's leave eight hours early because there could be X, Y, Z.
21:33There could be a crash and there could be police activity
21:36and we could lose our way.
21:37Let's print out directs.
21:38Mike, my God, who are we going to sign in the NFL
21:43if you're scared about them getting hurt?
21:45You're not scared about them getting hurt.
21:47But when you look at the track record of an athlete
21:49and a guy, J.K. Donaldson,
21:51who's played 22 of the last 68 games.
21:53We're talking about Dre Greenwald.
21:54We're talking about, well, he mentioned J.K. Donaldson.
21:57Yes, and his point was is that he tore his Achilles
21:59last year and this year he looks good.
22:01That's his point.
22:02And Dre Greenwald tore his Achilles last year
22:04and this year he got hurt again.
22:06Yeah, not ready.
22:06He tore it in the Super Bowl.
22:08That's not a fair comparison.
22:09And he came back and he got hurt again.
22:10Yes, J.K. tore his Achilles at the beginning of the year.
22:13He had more than a year to recover.
22:15Dre now will.
22:15And he came back and J.K. played and J.K. got hurt again.
22:18We're talking about next year.
22:19We're not talking about this year.