We meet a man from Coalbrookdale who started bellringing aged 8 and at 10 was at Holy Trinity Church ringing on the first VE Day, he's now Tower Captain at the Church and still rings and will be ringing tommorow for VE Day. He is now aged 90.
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00:01When I come back to Corbett Dale, which is frequently, I still think of Corbett Dale as my oranges.
00:08I wasn't born here at five when we came here.
00:11And my next brother up, when we're on the phone, we frequently talk about our memories of Corbett Dale
00:17and people we knew and Mr Sanders who taught us to ring and this sort of thing, yes.
00:22It's a big part of your life, I think, where you grow up, if you're happy anyway.
00:27Hello, my name is John McLean.
00:31I rang the bells here in 1945 for V-Day ringing when I was ten years old
00:37and I hope to ring them this Thursday when I'm 90 years old.
00:46So John, you were here as a young boy ringing bells.
00:50Yes.
00:51How old were you when you started ringing bells?
00:53Eight.
00:54Eight years old?
00:55My brother thinks I was seven, but I'm pretty certain I was eight.
00:57Yeah.
00:58And what got you into it then?
01:00My brother who was three years, two years, three years older than me, depends on the time
01:05of year.
01:06He was learning to ring.
01:08And I think anything a big brother does, a younger brother wants to do as well.
01:12So I came up and Mr Sanders was kind enough to teach me.
01:17Oh, that's the gentleman on the picture.
01:18That's the gentleman on the picture.
01:19Yeah, yeah.
01:20So, as an eight year old, I mean, I'm trying to think, you know, the weight of the bells,
01:25how can you even physically ring a bell at eight?
01:27Well, the smaller bells are not that difficult because they're fairly well balanced.
01:31Yeah.
01:32Yeah.
01:33So, it's not that difficult.
01:34Yeah.
01:35No, no.
01:36So, you and your brother started ringing bells.
01:38There's three of you.
01:39The one of you didn't get the bell bug.
01:41No, Ewan didn't.
01:42Well, he was away all the time.
01:44He got a scholarship to Dartmouth College.
01:49Yeah.
01:50About 42.
01:51So, he was away all the time, yes.
01:52Yeah, yeah.
01:53So, it's something you've had through all your life, bell ringing.
01:57Yes.
01:58I had a gap when I went to see her and lived in Southampton.
02:01But I came back here about 50 years ago and started ringing again.
02:04Yeah.
02:05Yeah.
02:06Came home on leave and started ringing and carried on, yes.
02:09So, you ring at a few different places, don't you?
02:11I try to.
02:12We go and help the local towers and they come and help us practice nights and that's the
02:17thing, yes.
02:18So, how often are you ringing?
02:19Kind of a week or a month then?
02:21Well, Sunday, one or two towers.
02:24Monday, one tower.
02:26Tuesday, twice a month, they ring at Kongovers.
02:29We practice with them.
02:30Yeah.
02:31Wednesday is our own practice night and they try and get up to Broseley on Thursday nights
02:35and the rest of the time is free.
02:37That's a busy schedule.
02:39Well, it's not too tiring and I think it helps to keep you fit.
02:42You know, it's a nice gentle ringing.
02:44Well, that's what I was going to say.
02:46I mean, you're how old now?
02:47Ninety years.
02:48Ninety.
02:49When's your birthday when you're 91?
02:50Yeah, 91 in July.
02:51Yeah, 91 in July.
02:52I mean, for a start, just getting up the steps of these towers, you know, it protects the
02:57puff out of me.
02:58It's getting harder.
02:59Yeah.
03:00So, John, you're just going to ring it a couple of times for us, aren't you?
03:04I'll do that indeed, yes.
03:06Go for it, sir.
03:07There we are.
03:08So, how are you, how are you still doing it?
03:20I mean, is the exercise the bell ringing?
03:21Or are you at home?
03:22Have you got weights?
03:23Are you doing exercise?
03:24No, no, no, no.
03:25I'm not.
03:26I'm not.
03:27I'm not.
03:28I'm not.
03:29I'm not.
03:30I'm not.
03:31I'm not.
03:32I'm not.
03:33I'm not.
03:34the bell ringing or are you at home have you got like a you know have you got
03:37weights are you doing exercise? No, no, no, bell ringing, another little hobby at an old
03:44pumping station but no bell ringing is my main thing I think. Yeah and you think
03:48that's played a part in keeping you? I'm pretty certain it must have done, yes, yes, yes, there's
03:53lots of advantages, I enjoy the ringing, the exercise and you meet some very very
03:59nice people. Well that's what I was gonna say yeah what is it that you get out of
04:03it then so it is a community isn't it? Yes it is, yes, I just enjoy ringing, I'm not a
04:11great ringer for methods, all the basic ones I can do reasonably well but I'm not
04:15an expert, there's some fantastic ringers around who can do some fantastic things.
04:19Another thing it's not it's not purely male, there's many many many lady ringers
04:26that are men you know. Yeah. And they're very good. Yeah, yeah, and the new generation is
04:33coming through isn't it? There are still young people getting involved. There are some
04:35people coming through now, yes, yes. We haven't got any here really but we have one or two
04:41come from another tower. Yeah. Over the years we've had new ringers but of course they get
04:48older and leave the area and that sort of thing. Or go to university quite often and like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but um. So is there a favourite kind of particular song? Is that what we call it?
05:00A method. A method. Yeah, is there a favourite you know thing for you to ring out?
05:05Well, this tower is what they call a Grandside tower. It's a method, Grandside double, you can play it, do it on 6, 8 or 10. And I like it, it's very musical and got used to it when I was younger and I like it now. We do ring other things of course.
05:22Yeah. But most towers start off with a different method because they say Grandside is a bit of a dead end for learning other methods. I don't see that myself but I'm not an expert.
05:32Yeah, yeah. And I have been in some towers and you can feel the tower moving when the bells are going.
05:38Yes, you can slightly, yes, yes, yes. It's fantastic but you can notice it. Yeah, yeah. So why is it important that we are still bell ringing in this country and churches?
05:50Well, it's a peculiarly British thing, English really, but there are some towers in Scotland and Wales. Quite a few in Australia, a few in America but outside of where there was British influence there's next to no change ringing at all.
06:04Yeah. And it started well over 400 years ago in this country and developed and it's just lovely to keep a tradition like that going.
06:13Yeah, it really is, yes. Totally. And I guess it's both a celebration of an event, it's a calling to the community, I guess it's both the same.
06:24The origin will have been the churches, I think, but I'm not fully aware of what happened, how they got into society.
06:32Yeah. I think it was the young men who had time, the rich young men who had time to do things, got together and formed this one, the Royal Society of College Youths.
06:40Okay. All very, very, very good ringers and that's very, very, very old. Very, very old, yes.
06:44Yeah, yeah. So if there's a particular favourite tower you've rang in over the years, how do we stand here in Shropshire, you know?
06:53Well, everyone thinks their own tower is the best tower. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love Cobbledale.
06:58Yeah. There are some nice, very nice sounding eight or ten, well not many ten in Shropshire but some very nice.
07:05Yeah. Tong, not Tong, I can't remember the name of the place, the six wheel ring at North Shropshire, they're lovely, really lovely sounding girls, yes.
07:16Yeah. And you're tower captain? I am, yes.
07:20Yeah, yeah, so you're the boss. So you're 90, you know, are you going to keep ringing as long as your body lets you, is that the plan?
07:30I will do, yes. As long as I can be of use to them, that's the thing, yes.
07:34Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, that's good.
07:36It's just a lovely hobby. If you like it, you like it. It's like Marmite, I suppose, you know?
07:41Yeah, yeah. Well, we all love the sound. I'd be surprised to find anyone who doesn't love the sound of it.
07:47And like you say, it does make you think of a time, a different time, you know, and it's lovely to carry that, especially so fitting here in Colbrookdale.
07:55Yes.
07:56So, your memories, when you started ringing bells, eight years old, your mum will say seven, but we'll say eight.
08:02Yeah.
08:03What was life like round here? Were you living in Colbrookdale?
08:06I lived in Colbrookdale, Woodside, yes. Yes, and as a child growing up in the war, we were away from the bombs really, so we didn't know any difference.
08:16The war was on and that was it. Our parents had a much more difficult time feeding us, but I can never remember being hungry or anything like that at all.
08:25We were very lucky, the rationing system must have been pretty good. Yeah. And as I say, I can't remember it raining, it must have been sunny all the time, you know?
08:35Yeah, yeah. Except when it was snow and we loved that. But you've got so many little coppices and woods round here and places, things to do, and it was just great, great fun.
08:45Just to go out and get up to Mischief and get lost for your pals.
08:48Well, yeah, try not to get into Mischief, but I was too shy to get into Mischief, I think, I hope.
08:54So, any of your old friends from back in the day then, are any of them still around?
09:01I can't really think of anybody who I rang with then. Yeah, or?
09:06No, no, except my older brother, my older brother, yes.
09:10And so the families that still live in Colbrookdale, I'm presuming 99% of them are all not of Colbrookdale of old?
09:18Now I would think so, yes. I'm not locking them at all. Yeah, yeah.
09:22But there's still quite a few, I think, original families around in certain places, yes.
09:27And you still think there's a sense of community here? It's definitely a sense of identity, isn't it, when you're in Colbrookdale?
09:32Well, yeah, the local people, whether incomers or originals, they've made the local infant school into a community centre and they do a wonderful job.
09:41Yeah. It really is good. Yeah, yeah.
09:44There isn't a slight outside, and I've only been late, and it's lovely to come back and be here and go to the old school.
09:50Yeah, yeah. Not as often as perhaps I should, but I still go. Yeah.
09:53Yeah.
09:54And behind you is where the old Colbrookdale auger foundry used to be, factory used to be.
09:59That's right, yes. The original iron works.
10:01Is it quite sad when you see all that gone? It must be, really.
10:05Knowing that the employment it gave the district, it is quite sad, really.
10:12Yeah.
10:13And it's a very important place for the Industrial Revolution, of course, Colbrookdale.
10:16Yeah.
10:17And so you were an engineer yourself?
10:19I was indeed, yes.
10:20So you're working for BP?
10:22I worked for BP, yes.
10:23Yeah, so all over the location-wise, all over the place?
10:27All over the world, wherever we wanted oil, we took it in tankers or...
10:30Yeah, yeah. What was your first job, back as a youngster? Where did you first start working?
10:36I had a little part-time job in the butchers' down there.
10:39It was a butchers' down there?
10:40Yeah, yeah. Burt Dorsets, yeah.
10:42Oh, wow. No way.
10:43And then I had served an apprenticeship in Birmingham.
10:46Yeah.
10:47Five years.
10:48Well, how were you getting to Birmingham?
10:50Well, I was in lodgings there.
10:52Yeah, yeah.
10:53Yeah, yeah.
10:54So that was a, what, first step on an engineer role?
10:56That's right, yes. I left school, went there.
10:58And then five years there, and my father had been at sea between the wars, and I always wanted to go to sea.
11:05Yeah.
11:06And one way or another, I signed up with BP and was with them for the rest of my career.
11:10Yeah, yeah.
11:11So they looked after you?
11:12They're good employers, yes.
11:13Yeah, yeah.
11:14So what do you think of Colbert Dale now?
11:17You know, I come here as a visitor really, I guess a tourist, although I only live down the road.
11:22There's still a lot of old beautiful buildings.
11:24Are you kind of, do you take comfort that there's still a lot of stuff here, or do you just kind of come here and just see what's gone?
11:30No, I come up and I quite often have a little walk around the old ironworks.
11:34Yeah.
11:35And occasionally go to the community centre, which was the school I went to when I was an infant.
11:39Oh, wow.
11:40We've still got the same maple.
11:42Yeah?
11:43Yes.
11:44Colbert Dale was a lovely place to grow up.
11:46There's so many little streams to follow and woods to go in and that sort of thing.
11:49Yeah.
11:50Yeah.
11:51Very nice.
11:52So, as a child you were bell ringing, and that would be for church services.
11:59Church services on a practice night on Wednesday.
12:01Yeah.
12:02And your brother, what was his name that was the bell ringer?
12:04Donald.
12:05So he was ringing up until a good age as well, wasn't he?
12:07Yeah, he probably rang certain to his late 80s.
12:10Not regularly, but when he came up to see me, we'd come and ring.
12:13Yeah, yeah.
12:14And so you'll be ringing for VE Day?
12:18We will indeed, yes.
12:19So you were here ringing as a ten-year-old, 1945.
12:23When, I mean, I'm gonna, you know, I'm pushing your memory now.
12:27Can you remember, did, does it stand out in your memory?
12:31Did you realise it was a significant point?
12:33You know, what are your memories of that?
12:36I can remember it, I can remember the party they had over on a place called the Cinderhills
12:40in the evening.
12:41Yeah.
12:42Um.
12:43Outdoor street party.
12:44Yeah, the street party.
12:45It was a bit more than that.
12:46They had bonfire and all that sort of thing.
12:47Yeah.
12:48It was around, but, uh.
12:49Yeah.
12:50I can't remember going to one of those.
12:51Maybe I did.
12:52Yeah.
12:53Um.
12:54No, I don't necessarily remember the actual time I was ringing here on that day.
12:59Yeah.
13:00But I know I rang because my brother and I were here.
13:02Well, you're in the book, aren't you?
13:03Yeah.
13:04Because it was a register.
13:05Yeah, that's right.
13:06Yeah, yeah.
13:07You would have realised the, um, the significance of that, um, of that, of that time.
13:12Not necessarily that day.
13:13It wouldn't have mean.
13:14Can you remember, like, the elation?
13:15Yeah, you know.
13:16Oh, yeah.
13:17It wouldn't have mean, wouldn't have meant that much to me personally.
13:20Yeah.
13:21People being, you know, very nice.
13:22Yeah.
13:23I guess, like you say, living here, we were, people were, thankfully, as a child, a little
13:28bit, um, protected from, from what was going on.
13:32So, you'll be here tomorrow ringing.
13:33Yes.
13:34What, what are we ringing tomorrow?
13:35As many, it depends on how many people we have.
13:36Yeah.
13:37Because all the towers are ringing about the same time.
13:38Yeah.
13:39But we'll have at least six going.
13:40What time will you be ringing here tonight?
13:416.30 till 7.
13:42Yeah, yeah.
13:43Wow.
13:44Well, tonight our practice is from 7.30 to 9, but tomorrow 6.30 to 7.
13:45Yeah, yeah.
13:46Yeah.
13:47And what does it mean, did, I mean, you sound like you're a busy man and you just take life
14:01as it comes and, you know, it's like business as usual.
14:04Yeah.
14:05Do you ever kind of pause and reflect and think, you know, I was here when I was a little kid
14:10and I'm, you know, I'm 90, nearly 91 now.
14:12I mean, do you ever pause to think and reflect on your life in that respect?
14:19So your, you had one brother that was a bell ringer as well.
14:23Yes.
14:24And there was another older brother.
14:25The older, my oldest brother, yes.
14:26Yeah.
14:27He started ringing in 1939 when we came here.
14:30And he rang a pill, I think, in 1940 before they stopped ringing the bells.
14:36Okay.
14:37And then he went in the army and was way out with the Gurkhas during the war, but he started
14:41ringing it again when he came back.
14:42What was that brother's name?
14:43That was Alistair.
14:44Alistair, yes.
14:45So there was no ringing during the war just because there wasn't the people or was it
14:49because they didn't want to draw attention to it?
14:51I think it, there's various stories about it, but it was, it was one of the ways of warning
14:56the citizens that the country was being invaded.
14:58Oh.
14:59That was called people to arms for want of a better word.
15:02Yeah.
15:03Not quite that, but you know, let people or something.
15:04So if they did hear bells, they knew that's what it meant.
15:06Right, right, especially down the coastal area.
15:08Yeah, yeah.
15:09But I think in 1942 after El Alamein, they rang the bells if they could in celebration of
15:18that battle.
15:19Then the Christmas afterwards and the Easter after that they did.
15:23Then in 1943, somewhere in June, they allowed that ring again.
15:29Okay, yeah, yeah.
15:30Of course, many of the ringers would be in the army and all the forces.
15:33Yeah, yeah.
15:34Well you were, was it a merchant seaman?
15:36I was a merchant name, yes.
15:38So what was your role in the merchant navy then, sir?
15:41Well, I started off, well, I was an engineer all the time.
15:44Yeah, yeah.
15:45Started on the bottom and made chief, luckily, yes.
15:47Chief engineer?
15:48Yeah, yeah.
15:49Wow.
15:50And your memories of those days, were they good camaraderie again, I'm sure?
15:54Oh, I loved it.
15:55I was very lucky.
15:56Yeah.
15:57I always wanted to go to sea.
15:58My father had been at sea during the wars.
16:00We probably came ashore during the Depression.
16:02Yeah.
16:03You didn't talk about those things in those days.
16:05Yeah.
16:06Especially with my age.
16:07But, no, I loved it and met some lovely people.
16:11Yeah.
16:12And I still have Christmas cards, but three of us are still going.
16:17And the family has changed Christmas cards.
16:20Oh, wow.
16:21Usually captains, because when you get to that level, you don't sail with anyone.
16:24Yeah, the other one.
16:25Yeah.
16:26You know you don't know anyone so well, yes.
16:27Yeah, yeah.
16:28And you've got two children.
16:29Yes.
16:30Your wife, Beryl.
16:32Yes.
16:33She's sadly no longer with us.
16:34Passed away 11 years ago.
16:3511 years ago.
16:36Yeah, yeah.
16:37What did she make of your bell ringing?
16:40Oh, she allowed me to do it.
16:41Yeah.
16:42She was a lovely person.
16:44Yeah, yeah.
16:45And your lad lives abroad in the States.
16:49You've got a lad and a daughter.
16:50That's right, yes.
16:51Yes.
16:52So, is your lad, has he pulled on a rope in his time?
16:57Well, way back, I was on leave and he came up for one night or two nights.
17:01And he wasn't doing too badly.
17:03Then I went back to sea again at the end of my leave.
17:06Yeah.
17:07And he did a thing called he broke a stay and it put him off a bit.
17:10And as he five stayed, he would probably still be ringing.
17:13Yeah, yeah.
17:14Oh, wow.
17:15But my daughter, she's not very tall.
17:16She's only five feet tall.
17:17Not to make a difference, but she's never been interested in bell ringing.
17:21Yeah.
17:22Because like most young ladies in that age, they were interested in horses.
17:25Yeah, yeah.
17:26And that takes up more time than bell ringing ever does.
17:28Very true.
17:29Very true.
17:30Yeah.
17:31But, yeah.
17:32So, John, where you're sitting, this was actually your family pew back in the day.
17:37That's correct, yes.
17:38So, who would have been in here then, so?
17:40If Dad wasn't working shifts, he'd be here.
17:43And my next brother up, definitely.
17:46Yeah.
17:47Mother would be cooking the Sunday dinner.
17:49No way.
17:50And what did your dad do?
17:51Where did he work?
17:52He was an engineer in the number one power station at Pildworth there.
17:58Yeah.
17:59For the first power station, yes.
18:00So, were you quite sad to see that come down and go?
18:03I was indeed.
18:04And the second one.
18:05Yeah, yeah.
18:06Yes.
18:07When I come back to Corbett Dale, which is frequently, I still think of Corbett Dale as my
18:14oranges.
18:15I wasn't born here at five when we came here.
18:18And my next brother up, when we're on the phone, we frequently talk about our memories of Corbett
18:23Dale and people we knew and Mr Sanders who taught us to ring and this sort of thing, yes.
18:28Yeah.
18:29It's a big part of your life, I think, where you grow up, if you're happy anyway.
18:33Yeah.
18:34Yeah.
18:35And have you ever come across another gentleman knocking on the door a 91 bell ringing in your…
18:39They must be.
18:40I'm sure there's older bell ringers than me who still ring.
18:42You reckon, yeah.
18:43You know, whether they started in 1945, I don't know.
18:46Yeah.
18:47And I can't believe it.
18:48Well…
18:49I'm certainly not the oldest bell ringer by any means.
18:51Yeah.
18:52Not the oldest bell ringer in town.
18:53No, no.
18:54Maybe in Corbett Dale, but certainly not in the country, no.
18:56Yeah.
18:57I don't know.
18:58There are probably better ringers than me as well.
19:00Well, John, we all love to hear the sounds of bells and sometimes I don't think we appreciate
19:05that, you know, it's not just flicking a switch.
19:07There's people that have to come and graft and do it and commit to it and practice.
19:11And so thank you on behalf of all your year's service, really.
19:15Thank you, John.
19:16It's been a pleasure.
19:17It's been a pleasure.