🎙️ Top intelligence minds break down this week’s global flashpoints.
In this no-spin Intel Roundtable, Larry C. Johnson (ex-CIA) and Ray McGovern (ex-CIA & Veteran Intel Analyst) deliver sharp, fact-driven insight on:
🛰️ Rising tensions in Ukraine & the U.S. shift in strategy
🧭 Russia’s latest moves in Pokrovsk
🇨🇳 China’s quiet but strategic diplomacy
🇺🇸 Domestic fallout from foreign policy missteps
🔥 What the media won’t say — they will.
This May 2nd wrap-up is your weekly intelligence fix for cutting through chaos and getting to the truth.
👇 Comment, share, and hit that bell so you never miss a briefing.
#LarryJohnson #RayMcGovern #IntelRoundtable #GeopoliticalWrap #UkraineUpdate #RussiaUkraineWar #USForeignPolicy #WeeklyAnalysis #GlobalIntel #CIAInsiders #MilitaryIntel #TruthUnfiltered #WorldAffairs #ChinaStrategy #Pokrovsk #DiplomacyWatch #IntelligenceBriefing #PoliticalShifts #May2Wrap #DeepDivePolitics
In this no-spin Intel Roundtable, Larry C. Johnson (ex-CIA) and Ray McGovern (ex-CIA & Veteran Intel Analyst) deliver sharp, fact-driven insight on:
🛰️ Rising tensions in Ukraine & the U.S. shift in strategy
🧭 Russia’s latest moves in Pokrovsk
🇨🇳 China’s quiet but strategic diplomacy
🇺🇸 Domestic fallout from foreign policy missteps
🔥 What the media won’t say — they will.
This May 2nd wrap-up is your weekly intelligence fix for cutting through chaos and getting to the truth.
👇 Comment, share, and hit that bell so you never miss a briefing.
#LarryJohnson #RayMcGovern #IntelRoundtable #GeopoliticalWrap #UkraineUpdate #RussiaUkraineWar #USForeignPolicy #WeeklyAnalysis #GlobalIntel #CIAInsiders #MilitaryIntel #TruthUnfiltered #WorldAffairs #ChinaStrategy #Pokrovsk #DiplomacyWatch #IntelligenceBriefing #PoliticalShifts #May2Wrap #DeepDivePolitics
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NewsTranscript
00:00Transcription by CastingWords
00:30Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom.
00:37Today is Friday, May 2nd, 2025.
00:41It's the end of the day, the end of the week time for our favorite gathering of my friends and colleagues who, of course, join us on Mondays also.
00:50Larry Johnson from his usual perch and Ray McGovern in Moscow.
00:55Guys, thank you very much for coming on the show.
00:58Thank you for the double duty. Thank you for the time that you give.
01:02Thank you for all the information that you feed me during the week.
01:05So, Ray, I'll start with you. I was going to ask you, how are things in Moscow?
01:09That's kind of an open-ended question, so I'll make it more precise.
01:12Donald Trump said recently that the American military won World War II and not the Russians.
01:23Larry and I have seen living proof that he doesn't know what he's talking about.
01:29What's the reaction to a statement like that in Moscow within days of the 80th anniversary of the Russians' triumphant over the Germans in World War II?
01:40Well, Judge, the tendency is to dismiss this as rhetoric, as ignorance, but it hurts, okay?
01:49It really hurts.
01:51The Russians come out of a long history of being second-class powers, sometimes called glorified gas stations, so they don't like it at all.
02:02But, you know, history is history, and fact is fact.
02:06And if Larry Wilkerson and Larry Johnson and Scott Ritter and I, an honest historian, say that Trump is completely wrong on this, 180 degrees wrong,
02:18then, you know, if we're called, if that happens to coincide with what Putin is saying, well, my God, we're not in Putin's pocket, we're just historically correct.
02:31So what's up the problem here, you know?
02:34Are we going to be called favorites of Russia simply by stating the fact that the Russians lost, the Russians lost the most people and bore the brunt of World War II?
02:46I don't think so. I don't think we should be, but the president is not making it any easier for us.
02:53Larry, on this same topic, mindful as you and I are of the impression that Russian history made on the two of us when we spent a week in Moscow back in March.
03:09Is that a question?
03:10Yeah, yeah, please, please.
03:12Weigh in on what Trump said and on your and our understanding of the Russian role in World War II.
03:22Let's just put it in perspective.
03:23Total U.S. combat deaths in World War II in the Pacific and European theater and Italy and North Africa, 251,000, roughly.
03:37The Russians, in just the Battle of Stalingrad alone, lost 1.1 million, an estimated 800,000 killed in action, combat deaths.
03:50So, as far as deaths, who inflicted the most casualties on the German side, the Soviets, and primarily the Russians, caused 80% of the combat deaths of the Germans.
04:06In fact, the reality is the United States, we killed more German civilians with our bombings than we actually did kill German soldiers on the battlefield.
04:19So, you want to start talking about war crimes.
04:22We like to cover that up, clean it up, and pretend, oh, you know, it was this life and death struggle.
04:27But we were committing acts of terrorism.
04:30We were killing civilians for political purposes.
04:32It wasn't the Russians that carpet-bombed Dresden, was it?
04:37It was the U.S. and the British.
04:39Yeah, Dresden, Hamburg, Berlin, Stuttgart, Klon, you know, Bonn, Frankfurt, you know, just go down the list.
04:49You know, is this a...
04:51Hang on, Ray, I'm going to let you get there.
04:53Is this a negotiating technique of Trump's, or is he just plain, jingoistically ignorant?
05:02Ray?
05:05I was hoping you weren't going to direct that at me.
05:08Well, he's ignorant.
05:10Either of you jump in.
05:14He's ignorant, but he's also bombastic.
05:17I don't know if he believes that.
05:19Somebody probably told him, maybe Mike Waltz on his way out, say, oh, by the way,
05:23tell those Russians that we win the war for them.
05:25I mean, I don't know.
05:26It really doesn't compute.
05:28But, you know, as we've said all the while, Trump is nothing but, you know, unpredictable
05:35and sort of mercurial.
05:37And, you know, God knows what Whitcoff will say the next time he's in Moscow.
05:42He might start out by saying, you know, Trump only said that because X told him to say that.
05:48He doesn't really believe that.
05:49And Whitcoff is the hope.
05:51I still hope that things could be settled right here.
05:56It doesn't look very promising right now, but I think it's going to happen.
05:59Do you have a feel, Ray, as to how Russian elites or the Kremlin perceives these negotiations with Trump?
06:10I mean, we're going to play a clip in a few minutes of Marco Rubio saying they're far apart,
06:13but they're getting closer.
06:14It's hard for me to believe that that's true.
06:18I can't imagine that the Ukrainians are, because as far as I know, Zelensky is still alive,
06:24that Ukrainians are conceding the four oblasts in Crimea.
06:30Well, Lavrov and Putin himself have been, surprisingly to me, positive in projecting success with respect to Ukraine.
06:41You mean military success or negotiating success?
06:46Just overall success in terms of being able to trust, get that, trust Trump.
06:53After all the betrayals of the last several years are going back to 1990 with James Baker in Moscow.
07:00They're talking about trust now.
07:02And Putin has said he thinks Trump is sincere.
07:05Now, he also said when he was out in Stalingrad, now Volgograd, just about four days ago,
07:12he said, look, you know, the war came to a successful conclusion.
07:18Now things are going to develop toward the east.
07:21We have the Shanghai group.
07:22We have the BRICS, we have the ASEAN and other things.
07:27And unless we can get it through the heads of people who think they are exceptional
07:33and think they can exert hegemony on these matters, we're going to be able to be all right.
07:41And he's right about that.
07:43He's talking long term.
07:45But they're also projecting some sort of hope with respect to Ukraine.
07:49I think it's going to happen.
07:51It's not going to happen as quickly as we all want.
07:53But I think Trump wants it to happen.
07:56Putin wants it to happen.
07:57It's just got to be on Putin's terms.
07:59And it's really hard for Trump to figure out one way to disguise it.
08:04So it looks like we got something out of it.
08:06Here's Marco Rubio last night on Fox, Larry.
08:11Cut number three, Chris.
08:13Look, you ask how close we are.
08:15I think we know where Ukraine is and we know where Russia is right now.
08:19And where Putin is, they're still far apart.
08:21They're closer, but they're still far apart.
08:24And it's going to take a real breakthrough here very soon to make this possible.
08:27Or I think the president is going to have to make a decision about how much more time
08:31we're going to dedicate to this.
08:32Did the U.S.-Ukraine minerals deal advance the ball or lock the U.S. into some sort of a protective
08:44capacity for its own wealth derived from the sale of these minerals in the future, Larry?
08:52Yeah, it's just hollow political theater.
08:54That agreement is completely meaningless, useless, worthless.
08:58It doesn't even deal with rare earth minerals.
09:01It's really like touting some sort of 10-year investment plan and, you know, where Trump
09:07has said, oh, yeah, we're going to get paid back with $350 billion.
09:10That's coming back to us.
09:12It's not.
09:13But Trump, with all of his big talk, flapping his gums, caved to Zelensky.
09:19That's what happened.
09:20He was so desperate to get a deal.
09:22Oh, I got a deal.
09:23That he signed on to something that is completely useless.
09:28You know, Judge, the one thing people don't understand about this whole rare earths mineral
09:31bit is we've got plenty of rare earth minerals here in the United States, 45 minutes north
09:38of me, the Mosaic Mining Company, all these filings that come out when they dig out the
09:44gypsum and pile up.
09:46That's got all the rare earth minerals we could use.
09:48The problem is the processing.
09:51And even if we get rare earth minerals out of Ukraine, they don't have the processing
09:57facilities.
09:58Those are expensive to build.
10:00Those take quite a bit of time to build.
10:03And they can have a tremendously negative impact on the environment.
10:06The one country in the world that controls the processing of rare earth minerals is China.
10:13So this is, like I said, this is all smoke and mirrors and political theater.
10:17They might as well have had clowns juggling balls.
10:20That's how it is.
10:21Do you guys share McGregor's concern that this agreement, if it were real, Larry, ties the
10:32United States to Ukraine in a way that it might produce a military clash with the Russians?
10:40Or I'll dial it back a little bit.
10:41I'm trying to summarize what Colonel McGregor said yesterday.
10:44Ties the United States to Ukraine in a way not pleasing to the Kremlin.
10:50Well, no, I disagree with Doug on that because the United States has been the principal instigator
10:58of this war, starting with Donald Trump back in 2017.
11:03It was under Donald Trump's first term that the Ukrainian military, both active duty and reserves, increased in size by a factor almost four times, from 320,000 up to 1.2 million.
11:20In addition, while Donald Trump was president, he conducted the first amphibious warfare operations
11:27in Seabreeze.
11:28That was accompanied also by anti-submarine warfare exercises.
11:32And in 2020, his Department of Defense thought it a swell idea to fly B-52 superfortresses along
11:40the Crimea coast.
11:42So the United States has been instigating and agitating for this war for a long time.
11:48And Donald Trump wants to pretend that he's some sort of neutral mediator nonsense.
11:53The United States has already amply provided a causes belli for Russia.
11:59And it's just thank God for the patience of Vladimir Putin that he hasn't blown us up.
12:03So, Ray, Vice President Vance has been all over the news media in the past 24 hours, claiming
12:14that Mike Waltz has gotten a promotion.
12:19Let's see, he went from having an office right outside the Oval Office to being 350 miles away
12:27on the East River, waiting for the UN to come back into session.
12:31And for him to be...
12:34Did you think he jumped or was he pushed?
12:38Oh, he was pushed.
12:40I mean, the guy was in nothing, let's face it.
12:45You know, what I'd like to just go back a little bit to what Larry said.
12:48Yeah, it was Trump that decided to give Ukrainians offensive arms.
12:55What Obama said was, look, Ukraine is not a core interest of ours.
13:01Ukraine is a core interest of Russia's.
13:04And so let's not get involved in stuff where it's not a core interest.
13:08And the worst thing we could do for the Ukrainians would be to give them the idea that they could
13:14win against a much stronger Russia on their border.
13:19So let's not do that.
13:20So Obama, for once, was making good sense.
13:23I don't know where Biden was.
13:24Maybe he was out to lunch or something, but he should have learned that lesson.
13:28And it was indeed.
13:30It was indeed Trump that started this thing.
13:32But the big thing to remember is that this was a sensible sort of approach before Trump.
13:38And Trump needs to eat some crow.
13:40And I think he's going to eat some crow, but it'll be cooked up very nicely.
13:44So it'll look like a moderate success.
13:48Larry, just to goad you a little bit.
13:50Oh, yeah.
13:51There you go.
13:51OK, Chris.
13:52I thought we were friends.
13:54I love you.
13:55Cut number six.
13:57Why was Mike Waltz let go?
13:59So it wasn't let go.
14:00He is being made ambassador to the United Nations, which, of course, is a Senate-confirmed position.
14:04I think you can make a good argument that it's a promotion.
14:07So, look, I think the media wants to frame this as a firing.
14:11Donald Trump has fired a lot of people.
14:12He doesn't give them Senate-confirmed appointments afterwards.
14:15What he thinks is that Mike Waltz is going to better serve the administration, most importantly,
14:19the American people in that role.
14:20And I happen to agree with him.
14:22Larry.
14:23Nonsense.
14:24Look, he went from, here was Mike Waltz, who basically would give direction to Marco
14:31Rubio, along with State and Ratcliffe at CIA.
14:36You know, he was, Waltz was the coordinator for the president of the entire national security
14:41bureaucracy, including Pete Hegseth at DOD.
14:45Now, as the UN ambassador, he's going to be taking his instructions, directions, and orders
14:50from Marco Rubio, who apparently is being presented as the new Henry Kissinger, because Kissinger
14:59was the last one to be both national security advisor and secretary of state, and just asked
15:05the Vietnamese how that worked out.
15:06No, it wasn't really great.
15:07So, this is nonsense.
15:09I think what happened is they realized that if they fired him, they would have been putting
15:15some trouble outside the White House, because he didn't have any place to go.
15:20He gave up his safe congressional seat.
15:22So, they're going to give him this.
15:24He'll spend the year getting cultivated for a new job with some defense contractor, and
15:30then we'll get a golden parachute exit, and he'll keep his mouth shut.
15:33But this is by no means a great thing and a big promotion.
15:41It's just, J.D. Vance had a big old tube of lipstick to put on that pig.
15:45Yeah, I am loathe to quote Jake Sullivan, but he made some very interesting observations
15:54about the chaos Trump is causing.
15:57Chris, cut number five.
15:59The president sets the policy, and the policy that he set is basically, let's go declare
16:03war on all of our friends, on all of our allies in the world.
16:06Right now, I think Xi Jinping is getting up every day, turning on the news, seeing what Trump
16:11is doing, and he's pulling out a big tub of popcorn, because he's loving this.
16:16He's seeing Trump do what China would love to do, undermine our alliances, weaken America's
16:21standing and credibility in the world, take away America's advantage in science and innovation.
16:26And he doesn't have to lift a finger for that.
16:28So, part of this is about personnel, but a lot of this is about policy.
16:33And the policy of the last hundred days, I think, has put the United States in quite a deep hole.
16:37was on MSNBC's Morning Joe.
16:42Ray?
16:43Looks like we lost Ray there temporarily.
16:45Oh, I didn't see that.
16:47All right, here he comes.
16:48Maybe he didn't hear that.
16:49Larry, I'll let you weigh in on that.
16:51Yeah, well, I hate to say that I agree with Solomon.
16:55Good God.
16:57I'm not trying to ruin your weekend, and I hate to say it, too, but when Chris presented me with this clip,
17:03I thought, we have to run this.
17:05Yeah, a broken clock could be right twice a day, I guess.
17:09And this is Sullivan's moment as a broken clock.
17:12But it is fascinating that Trump has both alienated the European allies, what used to be called European allies,
17:21alienated the Japanese, and completely disrupted any hopes of civil conversations with the Chinese,
17:31the Vietnamese, you know, across the board.
17:33This, Trump, I think it was, you know, Colonel McGregor with your last conversation with him,
17:41and John Mearsheimer's conversation.
17:43You know, Mearsheimer's beside himself at this just destructive foreign policy that Trump has implemented.
17:49It's policy by chaos.
17:52Now, Ray, I know you are multi-multilingual.
17:57I don't know if you're fluent in Japanese, but we're going to play...
18:01Asodeska.
18:02All right, we have a translation.
18:04This is a very interesting comment.
18:07It's under a minute.
18:08It's a Japanese member of parliament imploring the Japanese prime minister and foreign minister not to look west, but to look east.
18:21Not the US, because we are not trustworthy, but China is.
18:25Chris?
18:25What the US is saying is already an impossible task.
18:30The theory is already a mess, and there is no consistency whatsoever.
18:35However, if Japan were to negotiate about what they have been saying, to put it bluntly,
18:40it would be like a delinquent kid extorting someone.
18:44If Japan listens to the and bends the other way in response to the impossible demands of bargaining and deals,
18:50it will set a bad example as a customary and historical precedent.
18:56If you get mugged and put money in their hands, the will come back to mug us again.
19:01He's not a straight partner, so he won't listen to our straight talk.
19:05Anyway, I hope that you will never give in to the American extortionists.
19:08I know it's harsh to say, but they are extortionists.
19:13Surprised to hear that, Ray?
19:16Wow.
19:16I am surprised to hear that.
19:18Yeah.
19:19Well, you know, you don't have to know Japanese to realize what that means.
19:25It's the same as what Putin said in Stalingrad or Volgograd.
19:30He said, we're looking to BRICS.
19:31We're looking to ASEAN.
19:33We're looking to all these Shanghai groups and stuff.
19:38And so you have the Japanese.
19:40I think the prophets say they're looking west, and they're going to meet together because they're all getting together.
19:46Now, the Japanese have a long way to go before they reject Uncle Sam.
19:50But they're on their way, and Trump is just making it so easy for them.
19:57You know, I had this speech that I did here in Moscow on Tuesday.
20:01I later learned that Medvedev spoke before me in the morning, and the following morning Putin spoke.
20:09And my topic was Russia, U.S., the world, how it's changed.
20:13And it's kind of nice to be this old because you can see, first time I was here in 72, my God, the Russians and the Chinese were at each other's throats, okay?
20:26And the U.S. exploited that.
20:27In the 50 years since, the U.S. gave the game away and forced Russia and China together, forced Russia to reject Peter the Great, for God's sake, and say, okay, we're going to look east.
20:41We're not going to break a window.
20:47He froze.
20:49All right.
20:50Ray froze.
20:51We'll get back to him.
20:53Larry, tell me if – he's still frozen.
20:58Tell me if this is any way for the Secretary of Defense to communicate diplomatically with a country the United States is considering attacking.
21:11This is what Hegseth posted on X.
21:14I'm going to read it aloud since there's no audio.
21:16Message to Iran.
21:19We see your lethal, in caps, support to the Houthis.
21:23We know exactly what you are doing.
21:26You know very well that the U.S. military – what the U.S. military is capable of, and you were warned.
21:33You will pay the consequence, in caps, at the time and place of our choosing.
21:38Now, Chris, the professor who responded – this is a professor that Jeff Sachs knows, Professor Marine.
21:45I know, I know, I know, Mohammed, yes.
21:48Oh, good, good, good.
21:49Very well, yeah.
21:50Good.
21:50Message to Hegseth.
21:52We see your lethal, in caps, support for the Zionists, the child killers, the rapists.
21:58We know exactly what you are doing.
22:00You know very well what the resistance is capable of, and you were warned.
22:05You will be remembered as an accomplice to the hashtag Gaza Holocaust.
22:10Yeah.
22:11Back to Hegseth.
22:12Is this any way for the Secretary of Defense to communicate with the leadership of a foreign country?
22:17It's called leading with your chin.
22:19Because, yeah.
22:20You know what our military is capable of?
22:23We're capable of dumping an F-16 over the side of the ship and having it sink to the bottom of the ocean.
22:28We're capable of running an eight-week bombing campaign with 1,000 sorties and not stopping the Houthis at all from being able to attack ships in the Red Sea or Israel.
22:38Oh, we've sent up predators that get shot down by the Houthis.
22:42So you better watch out.
22:45Larry, you reported after your research that we have spent over $500 million, including the jet that went to sunk to the bottom of the sea, $500 million going after the Houthis.
22:57Have we laid a glove on them?
22:59Well, the $500 million is just the seven Predator drones that they've shot down and the two F-16s.
23:07Then they've flown, Judge, 1,000 sorties.
23:11And each one of those sorties, God knows how many bombs are attached to them and what the price of those bombs were, number one.
23:19So this and then the cost to maintain the ships out there, I bet you we're well over a billion dollars so far.
23:26And what have we accomplished?
23:28And that's where this stupid comment by Hegseth, I mean, it's just juvenile.
23:33Ray, in your Internet absence, we ran a clip of Hegseth on his ex-account, unprovoked, taunting the Iranians.
23:44And a response by Professor Morandi, who's a friend of Larry's, as well as Jeff Sachs.
23:51And you just heard Larry saying how absurd it was.
23:55Here's, yeah, I'll read it again, Chris.
23:58Here's Hegseth.
23:59We see your lethal support of the Houthis.
24:01We know exactly what you are doing.
24:03You know very well what the U.S. military is capable of.
24:06And you were warned.
24:07You will pay the consequence of the time and place of your choosing.
24:11And here's Professor Morandi.
24:14Message to Hegseth.
24:15We see your lethal support of the Zionists, the child killers, the rapists.
24:19We know exactly what you are doing.
24:21You know very well what the resistance is capable of.
24:25And you were warned.
24:26You will be remembered as an accomplice of genocide.
24:29In all your years in the government, have you ever seen a cabinet member behave like that, Ray McGovern?
24:38I've seen some pretty strange behavior.
24:41No, no defense secretary has behaved like that.
24:45I think Hegseth should be on his way out as well.
24:51You know, he and Kellogg are not being helpful to Trump on Ukraine in particular.
24:56And, you know, when you look at what Hegseth said there, the president himself, like even Trump has admitted, look, we know you Houthis are building your own missiles.
25:06We know you Houthis are doing this all by yourselves, okay?
25:10So where does Iran come in?
25:12Well, that's, you know, the old handle.
25:14It's Iran supported.
25:16Well, if the Houthis are building their own missiles, do they ask the Iranians, oh, we're going to shoot two missiles off tomorrow?
25:22Is that okay?
25:23I don't think so.
25:24So Iranian support is there, but not in an operational way.
25:30And the president himself has recognized that.
25:32So here's Hegseth going off on the same kind of limb that Waltz and others go off on, and it's not helpful.
25:42Larry, who takes General Kellogg seriously?
25:44He was on Fox the other day boasting that Zelensky has agreed to 22 of his negotiating points.
25:52I can't imagine that among those 22 are the 4-0 blasts in Crimea and no NATO.
25:58Yeah.
25:58Well, Fox takes him seriously.
26:00Jack Keane takes him seriously.
26:02You know, the Zionists take him seriously.
26:05But he doesn't count for the seriousness with the people that need, that he needs to persuade.
26:12And that's the Russians.
26:13And Kellogg's not listening to what the Russians have said.
26:16They keep pretending like, yeah, we're waiting for that Russian proposal.
26:20Vladimir Putin laid it out June 14, 2024.
26:23It's very clear, and it's been reiterated time and time again by Sergei Lavrov, by Sergei Rybkov, the deputy foreign minister, by Peshkov, the spokesman for the Kremlin, by Maria Zakharova, the press spokeswoman for the foreign ministry, down to Medvedev, you know, go down the list.
26:41The Russians have been real clear about this.
26:45They're not opaque.
26:46They're not, you know, speaking in some sort of strange dialect.
26:49They have been very upfront about these are now our demands.
26:52And so the next step in this process is Russia's demands are going to expand, which will likely include taking the other four oblasts that are east of the Dnieper River, Sumy, Kharkiv, Potava, and Dnieper-Pretrovsk, as well as taking Odessa.
27:13And then at that point, Ukraine, oh, let's negotiate.
27:16Yeah, well, you know, your chance for keeping that territory came and went, guys.
27:20Chris, do we have Lavrov on ceasefire?
27:27Okay, play that.
27:28If you want a ceasefire just to continue supply arms to Ukraine, so what is your purpose?
27:35You know what Kaya Kalas and what's his name, Mark Rutte, said about the ceasefire?
27:41The NATO Secretary General and the European Union.
27:44They bluntly stated that they can support only the deal which, at the end of the day, will make Ukraine stronger, would make Ukraine a victor.
27:55So if this is the purpose of the ceasefire, I don't think this is what President Trump wants.
28:00This is what Europeans, together with Zelensky, want to make out of President Trump's initiative.
28:06A clear and articulate version of what he said to you and me when we were interviewing him, Larry.
28:14Yep, yep.
28:15So where is Kellogg going to go by going on national television and boasting that one side has agreed to a 30-day ceasefire when he knows it's a non-starter?
28:27Ray?
28:28Well, Judge, I mentioned that the leadership of the national security apparatus is divided.
28:35Now, let's assume that Kellogg says this with the President's blessing.
28:42Well, is there a method to the madness here?
28:47Well, the only thing I can think is this is the maximalist approach, right?
28:50He sends Whitcoff there to do the next 10 hours with Vladimir Putin and say, okay, that was the maximalist thing.
28:59Let's see what we can do.
29:01Let's see if we can work with Zyessa or make that an international city.
29:06Do you want us to stop?
29:07Because we're just about ready to go all the way to the Dnieper.
29:10If you want us to stop, this is what you have to do.
29:12So the only thing I can make out of this is that Kellogg thinks he has the endorsement of the President to make this maximum claim that he knows is going to be rejected by the Russians.
29:25And then Whitcoff will go in, clean out the garbage underneath and say, okay, now this is really what we need.
29:30Can you give us something so that we can be let down a little easier?
29:34We know you've won.
29:36Let's stop the fighting and let's both claim credit for saving lives.
29:42Wow.
29:42Gentlemen, thank you very much.
29:44Always a pleasure.
29:45And Larry, anything else you want to add before we call it a day and a week?
29:49Well, I wish Steve Whitcoff was going to Moscow and sitting down and talking to Putin today, but I guess that got called off.
29:55So we'll see where, you know, if Whitcoff has been taken out of the game or if they're going to try to go more in the Whitcoff direction.
30:03Actually, Whitcoff's in the back of my room here with Oliver Stone and me.
30:08We're putting things together.
30:09It's going to be all right, folks.
30:11So that's why I can speak with such authority.
30:13I am glad he's listening to you, Ray.
30:16God love you.
30:17Safe travels, Ray.
30:19We'll talk to you soon.
30:20Larry, thank you very much.
30:21All the best, gentlemen.
30:22All right.
30:23Take care.
30:24Wonderful opportunity to pick their brains and to interact freely with them.
30:33On Monday, Alistair Crook at eight o'clock in the morning.
30:37Ray McGovern at 10 in the morning.
30:39Larry Johnson at two in the afternoon because of a commitment that I have.
30:44Have a nice weekend, everybody.
30:45Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom.