Si la ciencia tuviera templos, la casa de Darwin sería posiblemente una catedral. En este lugar, Darwin concibió su teoría de la evolución por selección natural y escribió su obra fundacional El origen de las especies.
En este ámbito histórico, Eduard Punset entrevistó a uno de los mayores expertos mundiales en biología evolutiva, Mark Pagel, de la Universidad de Reading y charlaron sobre cómo surgen las especies, sobre el significado del altruismo y sobre la evolución de las lenguas.
En este ámbito histórico, Eduard Punset entrevistó a uno de los mayores expertos mundiales en biología evolutiva, Mark Pagel, de la Universidad de Reading y charlaron sobre cómo surgen las especies, sobre el significado del altruismo y sobre la evolución de las lenguas.
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TVTranscripción
00:00...
00:00...languages largely evolve as species do...
00:27...Mar Pegel.
00:30If science had temples, Darwin's house would probably be a cathedral.
00:36This is where Darwin conceived his theory of evolution by natural selection...
00:40...and wrote his seminal work, The Origin of Species.
00:45In this historical context, Eduard Ponset interviewed one of the world's leading experts in evolutionary biology...
00:51...Mar Pegel, from the University of Reading...
00:54...and they talked about how species emerge, about the meaning of altruism...
00:58...and about the evolution of languages.
01:00I'm really excited, it's something to be excited about.
01:15In this greenhouse, which was Charles Darwin's greenhouse, whom I like to call the founder of modern thought, really...
01:25...here he studied what he called descent with modifications.
01:31Then we called that, using the title of one of his works, perhaps his most famous, The Origin of Species.
01:40But it's fantastic to think that it started in this spot in the English countryside, studying the origin, our place in the universe...
01:50...and ended up in the seas, in the Galapagos Islands, God knows where.
01:54We are in, well, what was Charles Darwin's office.
02:08What is the message that Darwin sends to the whole world?
02:15Why on earth has it been so well understood by a few, so misunderstood by so many, yet known by practically everyone?
02:30I think people really haven't realized how daring Darwin was.
02:38Because what Darwin did with his theory was to affirm that he could explain the existence of any living being on Earth.
02:47Based on a single theory, he was able to explain bananas, tomatoes, giraffes, humans, apes, monkeys...
02:54Incredible.
02:55The antelopes, developed a theory about the origin of the world's diversity.
03:02It was an all-encompassing theory.
03:05With a single idea, evolution by natural selection was able to explain all of Earth's diversity.
03:12He displayed great insight in determining that all terrestrial species...
03:17...descend from other species...
03:20...and that in this process of descent they are modified and adapted to the environment.
03:26Which leads us to two fundamental conclusions.
03:28The first is that everything on Earth is related to everything else.
03:35Because we all descend from something that goes back very far in the past and even further in the past.
03:41And if we turn the clock of evolution back far enough, we all share something with a common ancestor.
03:49We are all interconnected.
03:51But Darwin's second great discovery was the realization that if we all evolved from a common ancestor, then everything on Earth has gone through that same evolution.
04:01A humble bacterium is as evolved as you and I, because it has evolved from that common ancestor like you and I.
04:09So, according to Darwinism, there is no such thing as primitive or complex, but everything has the same degree of evolution.
04:15The history of life began 3.8 billion years ago.
04:26Microbes, vertebrates, plants, insects...
04:30We all descend from a common ancestor.
04:33Today, scientists have classified approximately one and a half million different species.
04:38and they estimate that this amount is only between 10 and 50% of the species that remain to be discovered.
04:46Despite this enormous biological diversity, all the definitions of species established by science are arbitrary.
04:54The history of life is a dynamic and constantly changing phenomenon, in which the boundaries between species are often blurred.
05:02Biologists delimit species according to their reproductive capacity.
05:07For example, bears only mate with other bears of the same species.
05:11However, this type of definition is not useful for classifying a large part of the living beings that exist,
05:17those who do not reproduce sexually.
05:21Bacteria, for example, only reproduce by division.
05:24and they can also exchange genetic material with other species of bacteria.
05:29Another way to classify species is to take into account the genetic similarity between individuals.
05:37Humans and chimpanzees share 98.5% of their genome.
05:41Members of the human species are 99.5% genetically similar to each other.
05:49and yet we are not different species.
05:54The other question that generates debate in the understanding of the living world is how new species arise.
06:00Following Darwin's line, most scientists believe that species appear
06:06by the slow and gradual accumulation of modifications,
06:09that if they favor the survival of the species, they will be promoted and conserved by natural selection.
06:18In this way, some species survive and others do not.
06:21However, Mark Pagel has discovered evidence that species do not arise through slow, gradual modifications,
06:30but quite the opposite.
06:35Abrupt and exceptional events accelerate genetic changes that lead to a species' eventual division.
06:42They are happy accidents, because they contribute to the diversification of life.
06:51Accidents that cause the appearance of new species can be of different types.
06:57Environmental, geographical, genetic or even psychological isolation.
07:09Look, it's fantastic, isn't it?
07:12Yeah.
07:12Darwin seems to have thought, correct me if I'm wrong,
07:17that this evolution from a common ancestor
07:21It was subtle and gradual.
07:27However, some people like you have said that this is not exactly how things happened,
07:35how speciation occurred,
07:38how species were created.
07:42What is your opinion?
07:43It's quite true.
07:45One of Darwin's great ironies or surprises
07:48is that he titled his book, his most famous book,
07:51The origin of species.
07:54But he never really got around to studying how one species transforms into two,
07:58what we call speciation.
08:01Even here in Down House, where we are now,
08:05He studied his pigeons and had large greenhouses full of plants.
08:08But he never really studied speciation,
08:12the process by which one species transforms into two.
08:16The reason was probably that it was a very long process.
08:21That's why I think all of us,
08:23When we look at the world around us and see different species,
08:27We think that species are things that have been dragged along
08:30towards its own environment by natural selection,
08:33after many small and progressive changes.
08:35However, some of the work we have developed
08:39suggest that speciation could be much more accidental,
08:44that the truth is that we don't understand so well
08:46how we believe the way in which a new species arises.
08:49It could be that speciation itself,
08:52the process by which two new species arise from one,
08:56it's a kind of accident
08:57and only after this accident that separates them,
09:00evolve differently.
09:01Do you call it a happy accident, something unexpected and tumultuous?
09:10In a way?
09:13Yes, we call it a happy accident,
09:16because when we look at the world around us,
09:18we don't see the patterns we would expect to find
09:21if species evolved through gradual changes.
09:24One of the things we did was measure the time that passes
09:28between consecutive episodes of speciation.
09:32We have managed to gather evidence of how long it takes for speciation to occur.
09:37And if we assume that species evolve through the accumulation of gradual changes...
09:41It would take a long time.
09:43It is true, yes, that some species would take a long time, others a short time.
09:46But most of us would find them somewhere in between.
09:53So when we think that things happen by the gradual accumulation of many, many things,
09:58We expect the typical bell curve to occur,
10:01the usual curve of times between speciation episodes,
10:05but it looks nothing like the pattern we see.
10:08It seems that new species emerge as if they simply appear and emerge one after another,
10:13without any specific rhythm.
10:14Almost as if they happened by chance.
10:18A chance event that causes the appearance of a new species
10:22and then they separate and differentiate.
10:26You knew him, before he passed away, I knew him too,
10:31to Stephen J. Gould, a Harvard paleontologist.
10:36And you know that Gould, who was wonderful,
10:40He had a complicated character at times, but he was a great scientist.
10:49He talked about the contingencies of speciation and I think what he meant was that sometimes
10:57Species arose by contingency or by chance.
11:02I remember Gould saying that if it hadn't been for the dinosaurs suddenly disappearing,
11:09Because a meteorite exploded, we wouldn't be here talking to each other, right?
11:14Yes, Stephen Gould was seduced by the idea of contingencies.
11:20I thought that when the meteorite hit Earth 65 million years ago,
11:25The dinosaurs became extinct and suddenly all that space was left for mammals to occupy.
11:30I am convinced that Stephen Gould was right and that many things depend on contingencies,
11:36of what happens.
11:37But one of the things we see if we look at the world is that the same things happen over and over again.
11:43So if we look at a seal, a penguin, a fish and a dolphin,
11:51They all have the same shape.
11:53They all swim the same way.
11:54Yeah.
11:54This proves that regularity exists in nature.
11:58Not everything happens by accident.
12:01But once species form, natural selection draws them into very predictable habitats.
12:08Ways of behaving.
12:11So I think if we wanted to rewind the tape of evolution,
12:15If we wanted to start over again from the beginning,
12:18There would probably be bats, dolphins, lions again...
12:22And humans.
12:22There would probably be human beings again.
12:25It's amazing, isn't it?
12:27Well yes, yes.
12:37Are we really altruistic?
12:39Or are even our noblest acts tinged with an underlying selfishness?
12:43Even if it costs us our lives, there is no doubt about the benefit that an act in favor of our children or grandchildren can have,
12:50since we share a good number of genes and their continuity is guaranteed in surviving relatives.
12:57But what's the point of giving your life for a country, exposing yourself to saving strangers, or performing small heroic acts?
13:08Humans have a strong social nature, we depend on each other, from the cradle to the grave.
13:18When we hunted to survive, for example, we did not have great strength, nor horns, nor powerful jaws,
13:25but in a group we could hunt any game.
13:27Our life strategy is to be social.
13:32We need each other.
13:34Altruistic acts also represent social recognition.
13:38In the eyes of others, we gain points, and they are more willing to cooperate.
13:43It boosts our status and increases our chances of leaving offspring.
13:48The supposed altruism in favor of the group would hide a certain type of selfishness that favors the individual.
13:53Although we all tend to gather in groups, natural selection doesn't care about the group.
14:00The struggle for survival is an individual matter, or at most, the attempt of genes to survive and endure.
14:17Listen to another question I ask Mark.
14:20Is natural selection influenced by group behavior?
14:27I'm thinking about humans now.
14:31See what has happened in the Middle East or in some countries in the Middle East,
14:36where group behavior has led to regime changes.
14:42Do we agree?
14:43But can group behavior suggest evolutionary changes in other organisms?
14:52In evolution?
14:55It is a very important and fascinating topic, especially when we talk about human beings,
15:00Because it seems that human beings have a set of attitudes that we would never expect to see
15:07in an organism that has evolved according to Darwin's natural selection.
15:13It seems that humans greatly favor the kind of relationships that are better for the group than for themselves.
15:22So, for example, we open the door for others to pass through,
15:26We give up our seats on the train, we pay taxes voluntarily,
15:29We even go to war and fight for our country, paying the price with our lives sometimes.
15:35How could all this be the result of Darwin's natural evolution?
15:39For this reason, many people think that humans evolved through a process called group selection.
15:48That is to say, in a certain way Darwin's natural selection chose between groups of people,
15:53so that groups of people who could better coordinate their actions,
15:59would win the game against the other groups.
16:02Some people think we have that mentality,
16:05to do what is best for the group, even if it means gaining personal benefit.
16:11This is surprising because the human species is the only terrestrial species that exhibits this behavior.
16:17In my opinion, this is probably a wrong position.
16:21I think we really have that group mentality, because for 200,000 years,
16:27Humans have evolved to live in small tribal societies
16:31and had to compete with other tribal societies.
16:35What I believe is that when you live in a tribal society,
16:39You gain reputation and recognition for being useful if you learn to live with the group.
16:46I think that if we give up our seat on the train or open the door for others to pass,
16:51It's a way to show that we're good people, that we're friendly, that we're collaborative, because...
16:57Because we seek the affection of others.
16:59We seek the affection of others and we want others to recognize that we are people.
17:03who can be trusted and with whom one can cooperate.
17:06So what appears to be group selection, that is, we do things for the good of the group,
17:13It actually means that we achieve recognition, a reputation.
17:16Marc, let's see, let's let the audience enjoy it.
17:29of one of your great potentials as a researcher, that of language.
17:36You tell me, I have read it, I think, in one of your essays,
17:42that there is something you call a time travelers' expression guide,
17:51in terms of linguistic research.
17:55And these expressions would allow you to see what English was like when it was spoken a thousand years ago.
18:03What do we find in this search for the roots of language in time?
18:14One of the most fascinating things about language,
18:16and another reason why it is so fascinating to study human beings,
18:20is that we have two hereditary systems.
18:24During the 20th century, we learned that we have a hereditary system that is genetic.
18:29We pass our genes on to our offspring and they pass them on to their children.
18:35However, humans have a second hereditary system,
18:39which is our language.
18:41We transmit language from parents to children and they, in turn, transmit it to their children.
18:45And one of the things we see is that, to a large extent, language evolves, like genes.
18:50Are there mutations?
18:51There are mutations in language. Words change.
18:54If two groups of people move to different places,
18:57The languages they speak separate, just as we expect two organisms to separate.
19:02And after a long time we can see how large families of linguistic trees appear,
19:08because new residents are settling in some areas.
19:11That's why you and I speak Indo-European languages.
19:14I speak English, you speak Spanish.
19:16They are related languages because both have evolved from a common earlier language.
19:21Since languages largely evolve, as do species,
19:25by a process of descent with modifications,
19:28We can follow the steps of language evolution over a long period of time.
19:33And one of the things that we discovered is that one of the elements of language,
19:38Words change so slowly that we can go back a long way
19:42and find linguistic forms related to these words up to 5,000 years ago.
19:478,000 years, 10,000 years.
19:50Like which ones?
19:51For example, there is a word in English to designate two, two objects, two objects.
19:58If I say chu, you'll tell me two.
20:02An Italian will say due.
20:04Due.
20:06A German will say zwei.
20:10Caesar in ancient Rome would have said duo.
20:13A Hindi speaker says do.
20:17A Punjabi speaker says do.
20:20A Greek says duo.
20:23And we can see that all these sounds are very similar, right?
20:27And it turns out that all Indo-European languages, including Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, French,
20:34and Germanic languages such as English, Norwegian,
20:37and the languages of Scandinavian origin, and the languages of Czechoslovakia, Russia, as far as India,
20:43They are all related languages.
20:45We can see this in the use of the word that designates two objects.
20:49What is it?
20:50We all use a related sound.
20:52The exception, I thought, is now Basque, right?
20:58Yes, many people think that the Basques were hunter-gatherers who lived in Europe before the arrival of Indo-European farmers.
21:06Because its language is unclassifiable, no one knows where to place it.
21:12Incredible.
21:12This is probably because their language dates back to some language spoken in Europe 20,000 years ago,
21:19while all these Indo-European languages date back to a common language spoken 8 or 9,000 years ago.
21:34The first human language must have sounded something like this when it emerged two million years ago.
21:39It is actually very difficult to know, but we can imagine its appearance by observing what happens in other species that have a certain oral language.
21:53That's what Darwin did, developing a theory that is gaining ground today.
21:58His idea is that the vocalizations of these species are not to communicate detailed information,
22:03but rather a kind of song with which they display and show their capabilities.
22:06Ultimately, whether it's birds, monkeys or whales, the message is
22:13Here I am, ready to mate!
22:16Pure cry of the jungle that originated by sexual selection,
22:19in order to become the chosen male and mark the territory.
22:25From a linguistically common ancestor,
22:28the 7,000 languages that populate the Earth have evolved,
22:31leaving a trail of regularities with which to trace its history.
22:34So if we could go back in time 8,000 years,
22:39perhaps we would recognize words like I, you, two, three or five.
22:45Pronouns and numbers are those components of languages
22:48that have changed the least over time,
22:51while adjectives, nouns and verbs would be unrecognizable when traveling to the past.
22:55Languages, like spices, are subject to the law of evolution,
23:01so that they either adapt by modifying themselves according to the new conditions,
23:05or if they don't, their end is extinction.
23:07Some languages are disappearing.
23:16Well, many have already disappeared.
23:19Some will survive, and it seems forever.
23:23I mean, when you look at English,
23:27Some tell me that Chinese will surpass him.
23:31And I answer that I don't think so.
23:34Why? Because it doesn't look like this is going to happen.
23:39Because?
23:40It's very interesting.
23:41When we talk about languages that survive and others that become extinct,
23:46It is very easy to think that some languages are superior to others,
23:49but it is not like that.
23:52And it's pretty obvious
23:53that if some languages become extinct
23:56It is because these languages are not associated with technologically advanced societies.
24:01As soon as a language has fewer than 500 speakers,
24:08It seems that there are many numbers to become extinct,
24:11and vice versa.
24:13When a language has more than a million speakers,
24:15two or three million speakers,
24:17It is because its use is spreading.
24:22This is because languages with many speakers
24:25are related to politically dominant societies,
24:29economically, militarily, etc.
24:32So the dominant languages in the world today
24:35are Spanish,
24:37English,
24:38correct, English,
24:39and the Chinese, the Chinese.
24:40And almost half of the world's population
24:43speaks one of these three languages for obvious reasons.
24:46These three cultures have been very successful
24:52at the economic level,
24:54political,
24:55and military.
24:57So the big question that arises is
24:59What will happen in the future?
25:00Nobody knows,
25:01but we should never underestimate the power
25:04from the adaptation of the languages themselves.
25:05For example,
25:08is currently emerging
25:09a new form of English.
25:14Some call it globish.
25:16This is the English that everyone speaks,
25:19people from different societies.
25:22This globalized English
25:24It is simplified English.
25:26They use very simple words
25:28instead of sophisticated.
25:30And there is no rule
25:32to say what is right
25:34and what is wrong,
25:35isn't it true?
25:38I was thinking about French,
25:41For example,
25:42that he has in his French academy,
25:45who is in charge of monitoring
25:47the purity of the language,
25:49and that's probably what's preventing
25:52its dissemination,
25:54the dissemination of said language
25:57against English,
25:59that does not have a royal academy
26:00of the language that I know.
26:02You're right.
26:03The languages that have survived
26:05They are like the surviving species.
26:07They have the ability to adapt.
26:09They are adaptable.
26:11They allow new ideas to penetrate,
26:13new words.
26:14The French have an entire ministry
26:16which is dedicated to preventing entry
26:18of certain English words.
26:20In the language.
26:21As the weekend,
26:22the hamburger,
26:24in the French language.
26:26This is fossilizing French,
26:29that is to say,
26:30that is not going to evolve.
26:32It will continue to be very French,
26:34but it's not going to evolve.
26:36Just as we have many variants of Spanish
26:38that are spoken all over the world,
26:40We also have many variants of English.
26:43And in the future there will be more variants of Chinese,
26:46as the Chinese begin to move around the world.
26:49The language that wins the game in the end
26:52It will be the one that can attract more speakers
26:55for having the virtue of solving better
26:58people's daily problems.
27:02When we travel around the world,
27:03the language we use to get on a train,
27:06take a plane,
27:08ordering food in a restaurant,
27:11that will be the winning language.
27:13And it will probably be a language
27:15that can absorb enough words
27:16from other cultures as to become a language of use.
27:20So the future,
27:23what Darwin tells us,
27:25what it tells us from the past,
27:27is that those intelligences,
27:31those skills,
27:34those societies that are freer,
27:39that interfere less
27:40with the ability to absorb
27:43what others know or have,
27:45These will surely survive.
27:53In nature there is regularity.
27:56Not everything happens by accident.
27:58Mar Peigel.
27:59Mar Peigel.
28:12Thanks for watching the video.
28:42Thanks for watching the video.