Miriam Cates has defended Nigel Farage after political commentator Andy Twelves branded his comments about Remain voters being "unpatriotic" as "dangerous".The Reform UK leader told GB News yesterday that he "never understood how you could be patriotic and at the same time be happy to hand away chunks of control" to Brussels.READ THE FULL STORY HERE
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00:00Welcome back, it's ten past one and in an exclusive interview with our political editor Christopher Hope,
00:06the Reform UK leader, Nigel Farage, has claimed that Remainers could never be truly patriotic.
00:11I never understood how you could be patriotic and at the same time be happy to hand away chunks of self-control
00:20to a bunch of old men who you can't vote for in Brussels. I could never understand it.
00:25Let's put it this way, a lot of people who were believers in the European project,
00:33and it was never more than 20% of the population, but a lot of it was in Westminster in the political class,
00:38a lot of those who believed in the European Union, believed in global governance,
00:44didn't really believe in us as a country and by definition I think they were unpatriotic.
00:51So, are Remainers less patriotic than Brexiteers?
00:57Well, let's speak to the political commentator Andy Twelves on this.
01:02Andy, what did you make of what Nigel Farage had to say to our political editor?
01:06Good afternoon, Tom. Good afternoon, Miriam. Thanks for having me.
01:09I think it's just ridiculous. The referendum was ten years ago now.
01:15Almost an entire generation are able to vote now that weren't able to vote in 2016.
01:20And for him to keep going on about it, it's just a bit odd.
01:23But it's also quite dangerous to suggest that if you agree with global governance,
01:28if you agree with international treaties or international organisations,
01:31then for some reason you're unpatriotic. It just doesn't really make sense.
01:36I'm not sure why it's dangerous. I mean, I can understand why you disagree,
01:40but surely it's a perfectly legitimate point of political debate.
01:44Not really. I think certainly when he's got people like Charlie Mullins or Liz Truss,
01:49both quite prominent Remainers now as close allies.
01:53I think Liz Truss was in conversation with his party last week.
01:55Charlie Mullins is probably a candidate at the next election for reform
01:59when he's got these kind of arch Remainers in his ranks.
02:01I mean, what's he doing? Is this another Rupert Lowe situation?
02:04Is there more division going to be created in the Reform UK party?
02:08It's just hypocritical. If he's got such senior Remainers advising him
02:12and working with him, are they unpatriotic?
02:14I think he'd probably deny that these people are advising him, let's say.
02:20But I want to ask, would you think that a Canadian who supported the Trump proposal
02:27to make Canada America's 51st state, would that Canadian be less patriotic
02:34than a Canadian who wanted Canada to remain an independent country?
02:39Yes. Probably, yes.
02:41Why is it different when it comes to Britain and Europe?
02:44I think there's a difference between being a member of a group of states
02:49and not having your sovereignty and having your sovereignty.
02:52But isn't the European Union a group of member states?
02:55We still have our own sovereignty, realistically.
02:58Well, no, you pool your sovereignty in the European Union.
03:00As American states pool their sovereignty,
03:03they can still make decisions over education policy,
03:05they can make decisions over lots of local government issues,
03:08but they, on defence matters, on matters of federal competence,
03:12that's given to Washington, D.C.
03:14And in exactly the same way, the European Union, yes, has subsidiarity.
03:18Yes, there are elements of national, of state competence,
03:21but there's also elements of a supranational competence
03:24where EU law overrides domestic law.
03:27Is it not exactly the same thing?
03:30I don't think it's exactly the same thing at all.
03:33I mean, for one, we have a completely separate financial system.
03:36Every single state in the US goes by the same currency,
03:39has the exact same value.
03:41But, I mean, the EU is a political and economic union.
03:45It's not a sovereign nation at all.
03:48They have a shared institution, but it's not a country.
03:51It's quite different, Tom.
03:52Up until the current constitution in the United States,
03:56the United States ran under the Articles of Confederation,
04:00which was exactly like the European Union.
04:02Then it had its Hamiltonian federalist moment,
04:05which the EU, all the EU leaders say they want to have happen.
04:08They want to have the euro to be the currency of the whole organisation.
04:11The Hamiltonian moment, as Guy Verhofstadt keeps talking about.
04:14I mean, clearly, it's not hard to see how the European project is built to be a competitor to the United States
04:23on the same road track to federalism as the United States.
04:28Sure. I mean, you know, there are significant differences.
04:32I mean, even, you know, the military, foreign policy, these are all done, you know, as independent nations.
04:38There's no EU army.
04:39There's no EU foreign policy.
04:41National interest.
04:41I mean, yeah, come on, Tom.
04:43This has been a thing since, you know, 2010.
04:45This rumour of the EU army has been kind of been knocking about.
04:48I still don't see one quite yet.
04:50But I think it's just silly to suggest that the 17 million people that voted,
04:5516 million people that voted Remain in 2016 are any less patriotic than the 17 million that voted Leave.
05:03And even then, it was 10 years ago.
05:04It was 10 years ago.
05:05Do you know what I mean?
05:05Come on, we need to move on from this now.
05:08I think he's living in the past.
05:09He needs to move on.
05:10Not even nine.
05:11Remember it well.
05:12Andy, thank you so much for coming on.
05:15Andy Twelves there.
05:16I mean, you can absolutely disagree with Nigel Farage, but what he's saying isn't dangerous.
05:22It's a very absurd way of putting it.
05:24It's strange, isn't it?
05:25It's often if someone on the right says something, that's considered to be dangerous.
05:30Whereas if someone on the left, that's legitimate debate.
05:32Yes.
05:33Interesting.
05:34Well, words are violent.
05:36Don't forget that, Tom.
05:37Anyway.
05:38Well, Energy Secretary Ed Miliband is plotting to create a new North.