Frame 42 Interview with Meltdown
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00:00Hey everybody, I'm Meltdown. What you're about to see and hear is my conversation with the
00:04emerging rock band Frame 42. They brought along famed producer Toby Wright, who's worked with
00:10them for years. We talk about their upcoming EP, which is dropping this summer, as well as their
00:14gig up in Frankenmuth for Greta Van Fleet's pre-release party this coming July. That and
00:19much, much more on this episode of Talking Rock with Frame 42 and Toby Wright, starting now.
00:25I've got to welcome the guys from Frame 42 here. How are you guys doing? We're great. Thank you for
00:31having us. Good. Let's go through and introduce everybody. So go ahead. So I'm Ben. I'm the
00:35rhythm guitarist. I'm Lucas. I'm the drummer. I'm Brock. I'm the bass player. And I'm Ava. And I'm
00:40the singer. And who's this guy right here? And this is Toby Wright, our producer. The Toby Wright.
00:45How are you? I think we should give Toby a little round of applause here. How long have you guys been
00:50working with Toby? Um, three years. I want to say three. Is it pre-pandemic? I mean, that's what
00:57that's the, that's how we do the time nowadays. Just barely, I would say. Right. Yeah. Well,
01:03I think we started pre-pro right before the pandemic and working on songs. Right. Because
01:11we were in the studio, what? December 2020. Yeah. We were pre-pro through Thanksgiving. Oh,
01:15right before. Now, where was that at? Was that in California? No, that was out here. Oh,
01:19was that out here? That was right at, uh, Temper Mill. Right. That's right. That's right.
01:23Yeah. You came, you, you, you're like, uh, have producer will travel. That's right. Yeah. That's
01:27right. You will go wherever. It's easier for me to travel as one than it is for five or six
01:31or eight or people to travel. Now, when you, when you go to somebody else's studio, I know
01:35you, you mixed a show there tonight, which we'll talk about here in a few minutes, but when
01:38you go into somebody else's studio, what is that like? Is it like trying to drive a new
01:43car or how does that work? Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I have to get used to
01:46everything that they've set out. Right. You know, if it's a, if it's a professional
01:51studio, um, then it's a little easier because they're usually set up for outside people to
01:55come in, you know, they've set up in a very generic way. And so, but if it's a home studio
02:00or somebody's private studio, then it's usually set up just for them. Right. So I have to kind
02:05of work with what they've set up and, you know, maybe augment a few things here and there
02:08and go, you know, go from there. Now, the other nights you, uh, you actually, uh, mixed
02:12the sound for these guys, is that something you normally do, uh, in live shows? I mean,
02:16you've done that a lot in your life or did you start out doing that? I've done that quite
02:19a bit. Oh yeah. Okay. And I love, you know, mixing these guys are a lot of fun and you know,
02:24pretty much I'm the only one besides them that know their music so intimately right now.
02:28Right. So I thought it was a good idea to step in and have a little fun. I wasn't sure if
02:32you did the live thing or you just did the studio thing or however that works, but, uh,
02:35they had a band sounded great the other night. So, uh, guys, tell me about the show,
02:38uh, up at the world famous machine shop. That's the second time you guys played there, right?
02:43Second or third? It's actually the fourth. Oh, fourth. Okay. All right.
02:46I'm way off. Yeah. We had two, uh, last year with a couple of local bands and then we did
02:54our third one was Saving Able when they came through last year. Oh yeah. Oh, that was cool.
02:58And then, so yeah, this is our fourth time being back there and after eight months of not doing
03:03anything, it was definitely good to finally get back. That was your first show in eight months?
03:07Yes. Yeah. We've been, um, started from scratch in like June ish or July writing new songs and then
03:15didn't come out of the studio till May 19th when they were ready. Yeah. October through May,
03:21we were in the recording kind of, you know, working the new songs process. So yeah, but it went,
03:29I don't think it could have gone better. It was so cool to see everybody come out and
03:34a lot of people that we know and you were there, Tony and Maggie were there.
03:39Yeah. They're great people. Yeah. Yeah. It was just amazing.
03:42And of course, Kevin owns the place. Now, how many shows do you have to play at the machine shop to
03:45get a free shirt? I mean, we'll, we'll tell you when we get ours. We're not there yet.
03:52I haven't gotten mine either. I don't know what's going on with this.
03:55No, what a great place to play. So, uh, when you guys are writing your songs and stuff,
03:59uh, how much of this guy's help do you, do you look for as far as the songs? Do you do
04:04help them to write the writing process or yeah, help, help writing and arranging. Yeah. Um,
04:10you know, but then ultimately I leave everything up to them with suggestions, you know, this might
04:14be better if we did it like this, but you guys check it out. And then, you know, if they try it
04:18out, we, we, you know, get into the pre-production phase and we try it out to see if, you know, my,
04:23my theory is that if you can't play it correctly, then you're never going to be able to judge it
04:27correctly and you shouldn't judge it before you actually try it because then you really, then you
04:32know if it's, you know, you or it's good or not. Right. So that's how we kind of work, you know,
04:37from the beginning so that the, you know, they have an idea of how, you know, different places
04:41can take you and then they can decide for themselves whether they like it or it's frame 42 or not.
04:46You know, I interviewed so many bands. I've talked to so many bands about recording. I was just
04:49telling you, I talked to a, you know, Zachy from Avenged Sevenfold the other day, those guys haven't
04:52put a new record out in like five years. So they've been working on it for a long time. But, uh,
04:56some of these bands mentioned, uh, like a riff, uh, junkyard, I think James Hetfield once called it,
05:01or he, he, he makes these riffs and he puts them away for other times. Right. Uh,
05:05do you have that kind of stuff even with these guys? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They have,
05:09they have lots of riffs that they come up with and you know, I've been known to dig through them and
05:13go, Oh, there's one. There's our chorus for this song we're working on. Oh yeah. And so I,
05:18you know, and, and, you know, there's a few songs that are kicking around right now that, you know,
05:22we can make more songs with, but yeah, you know, they just didn't make the cut this time because we
05:26had much better material faster, you know? And by the way, we should mention that Michael's not here. I
05:31don't want to forget. No, Michael couldn't make it today, but he's here in spirit and spirit.
05:36Yeah. He was fantastic the other night, along with all you guys. I mean, it was a, it was a really
05:40good show. I was, uh, I was impressed and, and Toby, maybe you can speak to this as well about how
05:44well they play, you know? And I mean, you, you've worked with grizzled veterans and stuff. These are
05:49just, you know, kids, you know? Well, I wouldn't call them kids, but I'll tell you that. Yes.
05:56You're right. You're right. They are babies compared to most that I've worked with. Um,
06:00but they're, they're quite talented. I mean, you know, I've, I've been quoted as saying that
06:05they're probably one of the best and most talented bands that I've ever worked with.
06:09And I think that's absolutely the truth. Wow. Um, they, and they really, really, you know,
06:14I've asked, you know, certain members that, you know, dig down a little deeper for me,
06:18would you please? Cause that, you know, it sounds okay. It'll pass, but let's get into your,
06:23you know, your musicality and really dig deeper. And, you know, they've risen to the occasion
06:28every time, which I'm very proud of. And, uh, you guys, when you hear, uh, you know,
06:32a legendary producer and mixer such as Toby telling you guys to dig deeper, I mean, talk about that.
06:38Like maybe even as a guitar player, is he, is he, well, how does, how's this process work?
06:42He definitely has this, you know, ability to push you to your, you know, you may not see your limit.
06:48Like it might be a lot less than what you think. Okay. I'm getting messed up.
06:54Your true potential. He pushes past you, pushes you out of your comfort, your comfort zone.
07:00Yeah. And Ava, I mean, with vocals, I've heard like, uh, you know, Brent Smith was telling me,
07:05uh, fly from the inside, that first scream. He said he did it all day long. You know, like that,
07:10just that one, that one line. And the producer kept making him do it, kept making it. Rob
07:13Helper told me the same thing about some of the stuff. Is he like that? Well, I know some,
07:18there was one instance that sticks out to me when we were recording roses, which is a song, um,
07:24on the upcoming album. And we had the night before recorded it. Um, we had chopped it up and we were
07:33getting, um, we were gonna, uh, what's it called? Comping, comp it, comp it in the morning. Um,
07:40and then, so we get to comping and I'm listening to him. I'm like, Toby, we're gonna have to redo
07:45the verse. It's so bad. And he's like, well, let's just listen through the chorus and see what
07:51you think. I'm like, Toby, the chorus is bad too. We got to redo this whole thing. But, um, but it,
07:57I think it did, we read, we redid it, recompt it. And I think that's the best performance that,
08:03um, we were able to get for roses. Definitely. And sometimes you got to like put things away,
08:10like, you know, at a certain points, you got to say, this is done, you know, but where that point
08:14is, I guess is subjective to everybody, but sometimes you might do something and then go
08:18back the next day. Like you're saying, go, yeah, I don't like this as much as I thought I did last
08:22night. Right. Yeah. That, that happens quite a bit. A lot of people, you know, guitar solos and singers
08:28and you know, all that kind of stuff, drummers too, you know, they just like, I could do that better.
08:32Let me give it another shot. And you know, you'd be silly as a producer, not to, because I trust my
08:37artists. And every time that Davis told me that she can do it better, she does. So she has a perfect
08:42track record in doing that. And so there's no reason I would never, you know, I wouldn't trust
08:46her to do that again. You know, now, uh, where do you guys get your musicality from? What, what,
08:51what influenced you to, to, to get into music? I'll start with you. So I guess mine started from
08:58like the mainstream, like big rock bands. Like I listened to like a lot of Guns N' Roses and
09:04like Aerosmith and the big names like Slash and Joe Perry were pretty much what really kind of put
09:10the label cool on being a guitar player when I was like in like the fourth grade or something. And then
09:16that pretty much just like lit up this path of rock and roll that I went down and, you know, I
09:22kind of expand my listening horizon and I found like Metallica and that was a huge one
09:29as I, you know, really got into my guitar playing. And so pretty much from there, it was just
09:36building this like list of names that I just draw inspiration from. And a lot of them are like those
09:42big eighties metal bands. Yeah. Yeah. You know what, Toby, and you can probably appreciate this. I'm a
09:46little bit jealous of some of these guys because they get to discover some of this stuff that we've
09:50already gotten burned out on. Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? Uh, Lucas, what do you say?
09:53What, what turns you on to music? Uh, I mean, uh, ADHD as a child, literally banging on the table.
10:04Oh, is that right? So yeah. My, uh, grandma took me to my first drum lesson when I was six.
10:09No kidding. Yeah. Like literally half a mile from where we practice now with the same girl actually.
10:15So yeah. But, um, I mean, I grew up listening to a lot of classic rock,
10:20Eagles, Foreigner, Journey, like with my parents and all that. But yeah.
10:25Yeah. Speaking of parents, so you guys are brother and sister and I'm sure your parents,
10:29did they have a, you grew up in a musical household? Yeah.
10:32Well, they like music, but none of, they don't really play. My dad plays drums a little bit.
10:37Yeah. He was in a band with some of his friends,
10:40but, um, that's as far as the talent really goes on our side. Yeah. But at least like, uh,
10:47in terms of listening to music, it was always like rock going on in the house. So we were always
10:52exposed to it. Now, what, what makes a guy pick up a base? Because that's like, uh, you know,
10:56that's he's, he's not like the main guy in the band. Right. But I mean, I'm, I'm a base guy.
11:01I always can zoom in on the base and, uh, and you were, you were really, really good the other night.
11:05So what, what, why do you pick up a base? Um, to be honest, it's just because my mom was like,
11:11Hey, like, cause I didn't really have too many hobbies when I was younger. Cause I would,
11:16I would race carts and then I stopped doing that after a while. But then it was like,
11:21my mom was like, you need to do something. And so I went to guitar center with my dad and she's like,
11:27you should look at some bass guitars. I don't know why bass guitars or anything else. It was just
11:32bass guitars. And so I looked at them and then a guitar center employee taught me another one
11:37bites the dust. Oh, there you go. Got a squire and came home and that should be like the sign
11:44on the wall, like no stairway and no, another one bites the dust. You know, no, that's great. So,
11:50um, so who got into music first? I did. Um, I got into music because when I was in kindergarten,
11:57my parents won a pink guitar at the school auction. So then we immediately, uh, started
12:05taking guitar lessons and, um, I ended up going to the same music teacher that Lucas went to Deb
12:10Barber and Lapeer. And, um, then I remember after my guitar lessons, I'd come home,
12:16Brock, take this guitar, put your finger on this string and try to strum it. He's like,
12:21I want to go outside. It's summer. Yeah. There was this, uh, Epiphone slash signature Les Paul
12:28that Ava had. And I remember very specifically her trying to teach me a D chord for like an hour
12:34and I just couldn't get it. And I was like, it's not that hard. That one's a stinker, huh?
12:38Yeah. And I still, I still play it weird. I still play it weird. By the way, did you get that hat for free?
12:43No, we didn't. Every time we play, I get a new machine shop. There you go. Every time we go there.
12:49Yeah. They got some great stuff there. We could talk about the machine shop all day long, but, uh,
12:54so, uh, Toby, so, you know, at this stage in your career and stuff, you've worked with all these
12:58legends, um, you know, people you've worked with stuff, you know, that I've played on the radio
13:03hundreds of times. What is it like to, to work with, with, you know, an unknown band like this,
13:08especially young kids? I think it's fabulous. Um, especially with the commitment that
13:13they have, you know, to being, this is their career. Yeah. It's not a hobby for them. It's,
13:18it's a career. Um, and I really, really, you know, I'm proud of them for taking that path.
13:23Right. So I'll, I'll help them however much I can, you know, until they outgrow me and,
13:28you know, so on and so forth. But, you know, well, I think we have a long road to go and I really,
13:33really love, you know, working with young musicians and developing their talent as, as best as they will
13:38let me. Right. Cause it's only, you know, it's up to them. I can only guide them and into, you know,
13:43where they go. And from there it's up to them to, you know, keep practicing, keep going, et cetera.
13:48Yeah. Everything in music is so subjectable. Right. And it's like, and it's like, you know,
13:53but I guess in a way they have to trust your ears and your sense.
13:56True. True. But I also have to trust theirs. Like I said earlier about, you know, like with Ava,
14:00for instance, you know, you have to, I have to trust that she knows that she can do that better,
14:04you know? And so I can, I have to spend that time and invest that time to let her do that.
14:09Right. I can't ever shut her down and go, you can't do that any better. I'm out of here.
14:13Yeah. Right. That's silly. You know what I mean? So, you know, people,
14:16she says she's going to do it better. I'm imagining there's part of you that says,
14:19oh, I want to see this. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Absolutely. Cause like,
14:23you know, like I said before, her track record is a hundred percent. Right. So that,
14:26you know, why wouldn't I, and maybe she's got something a different approach in mind or,
14:29you know, something like that for the next time she tries something, you know, or,
14:33or with drums or with, you know, bass or, or with guitars, you know, it's, it's all,
14:37you know, if, if, if they're really dug in about, I can do this better, then why wouldn't you let
14:43them? Right. Right. Cause you know, you always keep your, you know, the initial recording,
14:47you never get rid of that just in case, and then, you know, let them go at it, you know?
14:51Yeah. You get one that you like, I suppose, and then you try to better it. And if it doesn't,
14:56then at least you got that one. Right. Exactly. So you guys have a, have an EP coming out,
15:00is that correct? So do you know any details about that?
15:03Or are you allowed to talk? I don't know what you're.
15:05We can say it's coming out in early summer. Okay.
15:07And it's going to have five songs on it. Okay. Five songs.
15:11All right. So what are those songs? Did you play? How many did you play the other night?
15:15No, how many songs from the five?
15:18We did play 20 songs.
15:19We might have played all of them.
15:21Okay. Yeah.
15:22Yeah.
15:22I got to think about what's on it, to be honest.
15:26You got me to write it down for you.
15:28We played all five of them.
15:29Yeah. I think we did.
15:30Yeah, you did.
15:31We did.
15:32Yeah. How many, how often, how, how much did you guys rehearse for that show the other night?
15:35Oh, a lot.
15:36About a month.
15:37Four hours a day for...
15:39For...
15:40A month, yeah.
15:41Yeah, a month.
15:42A month.
15:42Yeah, it's going to take you haven't played for eight months, you said, huh?
15:45Right.
15:45Because yeah, we were in the studio and then, and you'd think we've been playing these songs
15:51for like two months recording.
15:53We should be good.
15:55No, it was not tight at all.
15:58The first time we rehearsed and we were like, oh, we got a lot of work to do.
16:00Because the last time we played them together was when we tracked the drums in December.
16:05So...
16:06Right.
16:07Wow.
16:07Yeah.
16:07I took five days and they, like, how long did the whole thing take?
16:12Till March.
16:13Yeah.
16:13Three months.
16:14Yeah.
16:15Yeah.
16:16And so now you guys, you got the EP coming out.
16:18You mentioned Foreigners.
16:19You guys are playing a show with Lou Graham coming up, huh?
16:21Yes.
16:22Yeah.
16:22Sunday in Coleman, Michigan, United by Sacrifice.
16:26And that's Memorial Day weekend.
16:27Yes.
16:28If I was listening after this.
16:29Memorial Day.
16:30Yes.
16:30Yeah.
16:31Right?
16:31No, Monday is Monday.
16:32Oh, Monday.
16:33Scratch that.
16:33Well, that'll be cool to meet Lou Graham.
16:36I mean, legendary guy like that.
16:38Yeah.
16:38Yeah.
16:39Is that the same place where you guys played with Skid Row last year, the outdoor thing?
16:42It is.
16:42Yeah.
16:43Yeah.
16:43It's always amazing.
16:44We love it there and I'm excited for it.
16:48I can't wait.
16:49And then you're going to head up to Frankenmuth later on this summer.
16:51Talk about that.
16:52Yeah.
16:53July 15th, Greta Van Fleet's pre-album release party in Frankenmuth.
16:59We're opening for Papa Kiska's band.
17:03Oh, okay.
17:03That's going to be super fun.
17:05And we're hoping to make a lot of friends.
17:09You know, I moved to Detroit in the mid 90s.
17:13And when I first got my job here, I thought to myself, well, that's where they build all
17:16the cars.
17:17I'm a big three guy, you know?
17:18And then I got here and I'm like, wait a minute, there's all these bands that come
17:22out of this area.
17:23And to this day, you know, since I've been here, you know, Kid Rock and Eminem and the
17:28White Stripes and Greta and I Prevail.
17:31And I mean, the list just goes on and on.
17:32There's something to water here in the Midwest, isn't there?
17:35I think so.
17:35Yeah.
17:36It's pretty, it's pretty decent.
17:38You know, it's like, and it goes back, you know, to Nugent and right.
17:41That's what I'm saying.
17:42Yeah.
17:42The Ellis and Seeger and all of them.
17:43Yeah.
17:43Yeah.
17:44You know?
17:44And so, yeah, the talent is great.
17:47Yeah.
17:47So you guys are, are, are, are the up and coming, uh, Michiganders here, I guess.
17:51Right.
17:51We hope so.
17:52I don't know.
17:53I don't know if we can say that.
17:56It might be a little arrogant for us to say, but you can say it.
17:59Everyone else is welcome too.
18:00You can say it all day.
18:02I'll tell you what, the show of the other night was fantastic.
18:04And I'm glad I made the, uh, the trip up there.
18:05Cause you know, coming from here to there, it's a little bit of a hike, but, uh, it was
18:09really good.
18:10I was really impressed.
18:10I, I, I saw you guys a little bit last time with Skid Row, but I was kind of with those
18:15guys a little bit, so I didn't really get to watch the whole show.
18:17And I think you guys did some more covers last time.
18:18Is that correct?
18:19Yeah.
18:19We, we had, um, at that time only like 20 minutes of covers.
18:24Yeah.
18:24And so now we have an hour and 10 minutes.
18:27Oh wait, no, 20 minutes of originals.
18:29Right.
18:29Now we have about an hour and 10 minutes of originals.
18:32So we're ready to, and if we were itching to just be able to play our own music for, for
18:39longer sets, cause we didn't have too many at the time.
18:42And now, now it's time.
18:44I think, um, you know, our set on Sunday is an hour, an hour 20, an hour and a half.
18:50So it is.
18:51Yeah.
18:51Wow.
18:52Yeah.
18:52That's quite an opening set.
18:53It is.
18:54It surprised me.
18:55But, um, but we only had to slip in two or three covers.
19:00So we're really happy about that.
19:02And to, to share our original music.
19:05Did you guys do a starship cover or something?
19:07Or we did, um, Jefferson airplane.
19:11Jefferson airplane.
19:11Okay.
19:12White rabbit.
19:12Yeah.
19:13Yeah.
19:14I, I get the starship and the airplane.
19:16It's all the same.
19:17It's all the same.
19:18Just don't play.
19:19We built this city.
19:21Right, right.
19:22That's the worst song.
19:23I don't know.
19:25So what are your guys, uh, future goals here?
19:27What are you, what are you, what are you guys looking to do?
19:29Oh, well, hopefully, ideally, you know, Grammys are always incredible.
19:36Toby.
19:37Toby knows something about that.
19:40Something.
19:40Yeah.
19:41How many Grammys you have?
19:42I have three, three.
19:43Wow.
19:44For what?
19:44Uh, Metallica, three doors down and no Alice because they were the, the most nominated
19:50band, but never won one, um, on my tenure anyway.
19:54Yeah.
19:55Um, and what's the other one?
19:57We'll have to look it up on Wikipedia.
19:59Uh, uh, one headlight with, uh, with Jacob Dylan.
20:05Oh yeah.
20:06That was the first one.
20:07Wow.
20:08Yeah.
20:09I was, how's it?
20:09I've been in the Grammys, uh, uh, twice.
20:13It's, uh, quite an experience, um, to go see all that kind of stuff.
20:16And I just interviewed, uh, Ian Anderson the other day.
20:20Oh, nice.
20:21Of course.
20:21He had that famous metal Grammy.
20:23He won 1989, beat out Metallica.
20:25That was the record you helped work on.
20:26That was.
20:27Yeah.
20:28These guys probably don't know what we're talking about, but they, they started the Grammys.
20:32They had the metal category and Jethro Tull wins.
20:34It's like, wait a second.
20:35And that was.
20:36And they haven't had a record out in years.
20:38Yeah.
20:38And when that happened.
20:39And then when Metallica won their next Grammy, they said, we got to thank Jethro Tull for
20:42not putting out a record.
20:43Right.
20:44Oh, that was sweet.
20:47Well, anything else you guys want to plug here, uh, to wrap things up, uh, anything
20:51we should know about anything you guys want to talk about?
20:53Yeah.
20:54You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, um, all under frame 42 band.
21:01Where's the name come from, by the way?
21:02Frame 42.
21:03Yeah.
21:03Uh, well, 42 is just a lucky number, you know, just, um, more specifically with Michael's
21:10family.
21:11So we wanted to incorporate that to bring, bring kind of some good vibes.
21:15And then frame is just like the frame framework of it.
21:20I'm not too good at explaining the frame part.
21:22You, you did it.
21:23Cause he read the book.
21:24Yeah.
21:25Uh, what's that?
21:28Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
21:30Sorry.
21:31Brain fart.
21:32Yeah, so 42 is like a big thing in that book.
21:35You know, it's like the meaning of life in the universe and everything.
21:38And so, yeah, 42.
21:41Okay.
21:42Well, I, I interrupt you.
21:43So you're plugging your socials.
21:44Oh, yes.
21:45Um, we're on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, all under frame 42 band.
21:51We have a website frame 42.com.
21:54Um, and we have two songs out wherever you listen to music, thicker than blood and Ramona.
22:01We just put out our lyric video for Ramona.
22:04Yeah.
22:04What's that?
22:04What's, what's Ramona about?
22:06Oh, Ramona is about, um, a little girl that I was friends with in kindergarten.
22:12Um, well, it's, it's inspired by her just because she was really spunky and energetic and, and vibrant.
22:20Um, and she was nice to me, but, um, not too much to other people.
22:27She used to bite people.
22:29She wouldn't bite me though.
22:31So I was like, I'll be your friend.
22:33Um, but it's just kind of about, uh, opening up, um, opening up to people that you love and trust.
22:40And, um, um, just being a free spirit, happy go lucky.
22:47It's just kind of a fun song.
22:48Are you the main lyricist?
22:50Yeah.
22:50Yeah.
22:51And did, do they bring melodies to you or do you bring to them or?
22:55Sometimes, sometimes they'll chip in, but usually once they get a good, uh, groove or
23:00chord progression, I'll kind of run off somewhere by myself and come up with a good melody and
23:07some gibberish and bring it back to them.
23:10Um, yeah, the, um, Zachy Vengeance mentioned something to me the other day that actually
23:14um, shadows have talked about that.
23:15And you've probably seen this in your career too, where, where they don't just go into a
23:19room and, and record or, right.
23:22They kind of try to bring all their ideas into the room because you don't want to have that
23:26forced creativity.
23:28Right.
23:28You know what I'm saying?
23:29And I've talked to a lot of bands though.
23:30They're like, yeah, we just get together and jam or whatever, you know?
23:33Right.
23:33What is, is that what you guys do?
23:35What, how do you guys, well, it's kind of fun because sometimes it's like that.
23:39And then sometimes it does, like some person will just start playing this random riff that
23:43just popped in their head.
23:45And then another person will be like, that's really cool.
23:48It goes in my riff.
23:49And then it, well, it just, and then we've had like songs that come together just like
23:52that.
23:53Yeah.
23:53Yeah.
23:54Like the energy is good and it's just, everything's really meshing together really well.
23:58But then there's times where you are forcing it and everyone's just sitting there staring
24:03at each other, like for an hour and just playing the same thing.
24:06And it's like, yes, this is going nowhere.
24:08Like nothing is happening.
24:09Yeah.
24:09That's when you got to take a break.
24:10I see those.
24:11Yeah.
24:11Well, two times during recording, I had to totally change the lyrics to the songs.
24:16And it's like, cause it's again, it's like dig deeper.
24:20This isn't good.
24:21Do something better.
24:23Right.
24:23Toby didn't say it verbatim, but I knew what he, what he meant.
24:26And so I would kind of drive around and try to find the right character who would, the
24:32right words.
24:34And, um, but finally we got it out.
24:36Just some of the songs are, there were a few songs that are just like, where, where is
24:42this going?
24:43And where, what can we do with this?
24:45Because it's not there and we know it's not there yet, but what do we do?
24:50And it's just, we've gone in circles like, you know, okay, let's come back to this later.
24:54And then we come back and then it's like, we're going nowhere.
24:58We'll put a pin in it, come back later.
25:00And then it's just like, yeah, there are songs that probably just write themselves.
25:04Like you've probably seen before.
25:05Absolutely.
25:06And then like, you know, uh, Brent Smith there, leave a whisper turns 20 this, this week.
25:10And I was talking about my track by track.
25:11He said their song 45, they wrote in 30 minutes and it's become, you know, staple in their
25:15set and their career.
25:17Right.
25:17Exactly.
25:17And then there's other songs that probably took them a lot longer and hadn't gone as far.
25:21Yeah, exactly.
25:23It's interesting that, you know, some of them just fall out.
25:26Yeah.
25:26You know what I mean?
25:27We had a couple that just fell out, you know, Ramona was just, Ramona just fell out.
25:32It was done in, you know, an hour or something like that.
25:35Like a gift.
25:36Yeah, exactly.
25:37And it might not have been, you know, with all the, all the words and or melody, but the,
25:40the, the track was definitely there.
25:42And I was like, that's going on the record.
25:44I don't really like that one.
25:45Yeah.
25:46So, you know, it just, it just, you just keep them creative, you know, and that's, that's
25:50the main thing.
25:50You just keep the creativity going.
25:53And, you know, if you get stuck, move on, you know, put that one aside.
25:55Like, like Ben said, put a pin in it and move along, you know, and then come back to it
25:59later.
26:00If there is a later, maybe you don't need that song.
26:02You know, maybe you've fulfilled your quota and you're on your way.
26:06Yeah.
26:06You know?
26:06Yeah.
26:07And it's good that you guys had this guy to fall back on.
26:09Cause he's, you know, he, he, he hears things probably differently than other people do.
26:13So it's impressive.
26:14It's amazed me how fine his ear is.
26:16And I'm just like, what?
26:19Well, he say stuff like play that again.
26:21Right.
26:22Well, like my ear is not that great.
26:25So like people hear things.
26:27I'm just like, play it again.
26:29And I did not hear that.
26:30And then it's like, I don't know.
26:32I'll trust you because I know like your ear is definitely better than mine.
26:36And so I think it was a James or, or a Lars from Metallica.
26:41And I think Kirk was doing this inner Sandman riff.
26:43And one of them said, do that again.
26:45And again, you know, and then, you know, it's like, that's, that's the stuff just kind
26:49of pops up in the studio.
26:50Right.
26:50Exactly.
26:51And that, you know, that's a hook too.
26:53You know what I mean?
26:53You make them repeat a hook because in music, that seems to be the thing that people glom
26:58onto, you know, and they just attach themselves to that hook, you know, and that's popular
27:03music.
27:03I don't want to say pop music, but it's popular music.
27:06Right.
27:06You know, well, I want to thank you guys for coming to the studio.
27:09A great show last Friday night.
27:11And, um, and, uh, you know, have Toby one time tell you about the base on the injustice
27:15for all records.
27:17I think we've been there before.
27:19I was a little worried when we started working with it.
27:23You're going to lose your job.
27:25And on that note, we should close it down.
27:27Thank you guys so much.