Hollywood Demons S01E04

Small TV

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Transcript

00:00:00In 2006, there was this idea for a reality show.

00:00:14When it started, it was really just supposed to be about

00:00:17a group of women who live in incredible wealth

00:00:22that has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger.

00:00:26People are attracted to what looks like a perfect life,

00:00:31but it's really not all it's cracked up to be.

00:00:40If you're a fan of reality television,

00:00:43I have to tell you some things that you may find disturbing.

00:00:48Are the police involved?

00:00:50It's pretty sick.

00:00:52Most people that do these shows, they're not happy.

00:00:54My friend just hanging himself, do you understand?

00:00:57I'm innocent.

00:00:58Did any of this happen while the show was there?

00:01:00I'm not guilty of any of these.

00:01:03Who is the worst criminal I ever dealt with?

00:01:06It would be her hands down.

00:01:08You're going to be on the edge of your chair.

00:01:10So do you love me or hate me?

00:01:13What made you decide to go on a show like Real Housewives?

00:01:18The key to the success of the Real Housewives

00:01:22are the Real Housewives themselves.

00:01:26Nothing like plugging my own chair, right?

00:01:29Do you think you can be on any help?

00:01:31No, there's nothing you can do.

00:01:33I loved watching the first episode

00:01:45of Real Housewives of Orange County

00:01:46because in some way

00:01:50all of the women reminded me of someone that I knew.

00:01:55I first started watching the Housewives

00:01:56because someone had told me

00:01:58that someone had flipped a table

00:01:59and I wanted to see it.

00:02:04In 2006, Bravo started airing

00:02:06The Real Housewives of Orange County

00:02:07and now The Real Housewives

00:02:09are a cultural juggernaut.

00:02:12Housewives is one piece

00:02:13of this behemoth cultural movement

00:02:16that has fundamentally changed

00:02:18how we look at television.

00:02:20And they have a bunch of American iterations

00:02:23that are wildly diverse.

00:02:27So for Orange County,

00:02:28you're telling the story of suburban women

00:02:30in Southern California.

00:02:32Then you have Real Housewives of New York.

00:02:34Most people work in finance.

00:02:36Real Housewives of Miami

00:02:37is like a melting pot

00:02:38of different cultures in Miami.

00:02:40In the U.S.,

00:02:42the Housewives franchise has 10 shows.

00:02:44There are 21 adaptations internationally.

00:02:49And there are over 150 cast members.

00:02:52They are often Bravo loberties.

00:02:57That is someone who appeared

00:02:59on a show on the Bravo network.

00:03:01Will you say hi?

00:03:02Hi.

00:03:03Often means that you grow

00:03:05to have quite a big social media following

00:03:08that allows you to obtain brand opportunities,

00:03:12further television opportunities,

00:03:14business opportunities.

00:03:15In every Real Housewives series,

00:03:22it's the same fruit,

00:03:23just different people.

00:03:25You kind of broke them up!

00:03:26I didn't broke them up!

00:03:28It's the same fake fights,

00:03:29the fake cattiness,

00:03:31the fake drama.

00:03:32It's not real.

00:03:33How do you feel right now?

00:03:40Like I just watch a prison scene

00:03:42and some salacious movie

00:03:46about women in prison.

00:03:49It feels dirty.

00:03:49It feels like I need to take a shower.

00:03:50I have met many of these Housewives.

00:03:55I know them personally.

00:03:56And as the Housewife franchise

00:03:58has moved along,

00:03:59a surprising number of these women

00:04:00have been involved

00:04:02in some sort of criminal endeavor.

00:04:04Teresa, what do you think of the sentence?

00:04:06Mr. Shannon's DUI.

00:04:07He's about to be sued.

00:04:09You have to wonder

00:04:10what the implications of all that is.

00:04:13Any comment on the charges?

00:04:14If you watch, like,

00:04:16the first season and a half,

00:04:18it is an unbelievably different show

00:04:21than the Housewives we have now.

00:04:26I wanted it to be a learning show.

00:04:30The show changed drastically

00:04:32from first season.

00:04:35I'm Gina Keough,

00:04:37formerly of The Real Housewives

00:04:38of Orange County.

00:04:40I started as a model in Chicago

00:04:42and was brought out to

00:04:44California to do a movie.

00:04:47I did about seven movies

00:04:49the first year,

00:04:50150 commercials over my career.

00:04:54I was living in Cota de Caza

00:04:55in Orange County.

00:04:58So I actually grew up in Orange County.

00:05:01My wife grew up in Orange County,

00:05:03which was a sleepy bedroom community

00:05:05when I was growing up.

00:05:06And all of a sudden,

00:05:07a lot of money came in.

00:05:09And everyone seems to be interested

00:05:10in the money down in Orange County.

00:05:13People in Southern California,

00:05:15your currency are things

00:05:18like having a boat

00:05:19or a second home

00:05:20and not necessarily

00:05:21where you went to school

00:05:22and what you do for a living.

00:05:27When I first moved,

00:05:28my next-door neighbor

00:05:29was Scott Dunlop.

00:05:31Scott Dunlop was an actor

00:05:33and producer.

00:05:34So every time he'd come over

00:05:35to my house,

00:05:36he's like,

00:05:36you always have the most

00:05:37interesting people here.

00:05:38He liked that there was always

00:05:39a writer, a director,

00:05:40an athlete, an actor,

00:05:42all these cool people

00:05:43hanging out.

00:05:44I mean, we did live

00:05:45bigger than normal lives.

00:05:48He's like,

00:05:48I want to do a show

00:05:49about your family.

00:05:51He had thought about

00:05:52the success

00:05:53of Desperate Housewives,

00:05:55about a group of women

00:05:56who lived in the suburbs.

00:05:57And I want those

00:05:58nonfat peach yogurts.

00:06:00And the women are bonkers.

00:06:02And there's no better show.

00:06:03If you're a fan

00:06:05of reality television,

00:06:06let me explain

00:06:07how these shows

00:06:07are cast and produced.

00:06:09So Bravo owns the show,

00:06:11but they don't produce

00:06:12or create the show.

00:06:13That's done by a production

00:06:14company they partner with.

00:06:15So often the way

00:06:16these things are cast

00:06:17is a production company

00:06:18goes out,

00:06:19puts together the cast

00:06:20they think is going to work

00:06:21and presents that

00:06:21to the network.

00:06:25Scott got four other families.

00:06:27They went next door

00:06:28and got Vicky

00:06:29and then Vicky's secretary,

00:06:31Lori.

00:06:32And there was Kim.

00:06:33I found Joe De La Rosa

00:06:34at a party

00:06:35and I thought

00:06:36they were just fascinating

00:06:37because she was so cute.

00:06:39He just said

00:06:40it's going to be

00:06:40like a reality show

00:06:41and then he took it

00:06:43to Bravo.

00:06:44Bravo used to be

00:06:46the most boring

00:06:47high art channel

00:06:49on cable.

00:06:54Then Bravo was doing

00:06:56Project Runway

00:06:57and Queer Eye

00:06:58for the Straight Guy.

00:06:59They were fun

00:07:00and campy.

00:07:01We need to get you

00:07:02some grown-up clothes,

00:07:03some sophisticated clothes.

00:07:05Bravo's early success

00:07:06I think showed

00:07:06other networks

00:07:07that you can make

00:07:08so much money

00:07:10if you decide

00:07:10to speak to an audience

00:07:11other than

00:07:12straight white men

00:07:13between 18 and 45.

00:07:16Well, I had watched Bravo

00:07:17for Millionaire Matchmaker,

00:07:20Tabitha Salon,

00:07:21Takeover.

00:07:21Going to change

00:07:22everything.

00:07:23Well, these shows

00:07:24were driven by hosts

00:07:25where every episode

00:07:26had a guest

00:07:27with a problem

00:07:28and the host fixed it

00:07:29and the episode

00:07:30was wrapped up

00:07:31in a nice bow.

00:07:33But Housewives

00:07:33was going to be

00:07:34very different.

00:07:37The Real Housewives

00:07:39is a docu-soap,

00:07:41essentially,

00:07:42a reality show

00:07:43that features

00:07:44an ensemble cast

00:07:45of characters

00:07:46that have some sort

00:07:47of back history.

00:07:48You get to see

00:07:49people's lives

00:07:50over a longer period

00:07:52of time.

00:07:53This was really

00:07:54kind of the first time

00:07:55that you saw

00:07:56a story of this kind

00:07:57play out on a show.

00:08:00Andy Cohen

00:08:01was the VP

00:08:01of Programming

00:08:02at Bravo,

00:08:03responsible for

00:08:04greenlighting shows,

00:08:05and he decided

00:08:05to take a chance

00:08:06with it.

00:08:08Andy Cohen

00:08:08is like

00:08:09the godfather

00:08:11of Bravo.

00:08:13He really loved

00:08:14soap operas.

00:08:15He was like a big

00:08:16Susan Lucci fan,

00:08:17and I think

00:08:19seeing these women

00:08:20who are maybe similar

00:08:21to like soap opera stars

00:08:22is fun.

00:08:24And they said,

00:08:26okay, we like it,

00:08:27go do it.

00:08:34I thought it was

00:08:35going to go really well.

00:08:36So we invited

00:08:37everybody to my house,

00:08:38and we did a big dinner,

00:08:40and we watched.

00:08:42Life is different

00:08:43in a gated community.

00:08:45The land here

00:08:46is a million an acre.

00:08:48It's so boring.

00:08:50It's so flat.

00:08:51And I don't have

00:08:52to worry about him.

00:08:53We tell each other

00:08:53everything.

00:08:54It's just like

00:08:55women lunching together,

00:08:56and like it's more

00:08:57of just them at home

00:08:58with their kids.

00:08:59You see maybe

00:09:00a dynamic in a marriage

00:09:01that's a little off.

00:09:03No one's talking about it.

00:09:05I have 12 years on Jo.

00:09:06She's only 24 years old.

00:09:08But you know,

00:09:09it works out so great

00:09:10for us because

00:09:10I'm eager to teach,

00:09:12she's eager to learn.

00:09:13In one of the early

00:09:14episodes of the first season,

00:09:15they spend

00:09:15so much time

00:09:17just showing a housewife

00:09:19doing paperwork.

00:09:20It's a lot of anticipation,

00:09:22a lot of planning.

00:09:23I did plan all the flights

00:09:24for my family to come,

00:09:25as well as Branagh's dad.

00:09:27It had less than

00:09:28half a million

00:09:29in viewership,

00:09:31which is pretty low.

00:09:32Even Andy Cohen

00:09:34didn't like the early cuts

00:09:36of early episodes.

00:09:38The housewives

00:09:39are our intent

00:09:41to enter spaces

00:09:42that most of us

00:09:43will never be able

00:09:44to go into.

00:09:45I am never going

00:09:46to be able to hang out

00:09:47with the richest women.

00:09:49That's not happening

00:09:50for me.

00:09:51But I am really curious

00:09:52how they talk

00:09:53to each other

00:09:54and what kind of stuff

00:09:55they buy,

00:09:56the kinds of problems

00:09:57you have

00:09:58when you're

00:09:59a mega millionaire.

00:10:02I don't really care

00:10:03about what they

00:10:04want to show me.

00:10:05I want to see

00:10:06what they don't

00:10:06want to show me.

00:10:07And I do think

00:10:08Andy understood that.

00:10:10It was about

00:10:11us as the audience

00:10:13getting access

00:10:14to the elites.

00:10:16And are they

00:10:16being honest with us?

00:10:19After season one,

00:10:20they made some tweaks.

00:10:22It seemed like

00:10:24when it comes to casting,

00:10:25they are looking

00:10:26for people

00:10:27that are dramatic.

00:10:29In my world,

00:10:30drama means

00:10:31unstable.

00:10:34If you think

00:10:34about drama,

00:10:35every Shakespearean play,

00:10:36every great tragedy

00:10:37is about sick people

00:10:39behaving sick.

00:10:40It's not healthy people

00:10:41being healthy.

00:10:42That's boring.

00:10:44So naturally

00:10:46and reasonably,

00:10:47the producers,

00:10:48they're going to go

00:10:48towards people

00:10:49who create drama.

00:10:52One person

00:10:53left the first season

00:10:54and they just

00:10:56brought new people in.

00:10:56when the show started,

00:11:00it wasn't so sweet.

00:11:02And then

00:11:03you start to see them

00:11:06bringing people in

00:11:06that have a criminal history.

00:11:09There's mysteries

00:11:10around who they are.

00:11:12I don't think

00:11:14the audience

00:11:14is fully aware

00:11:15of the full story.

00:11:18I never,

00:11:19ever

00:11:20really spoken

00:11:21about my relationship

00:11:23with one of the housewives.

00:11:25So do you love me

00:11:26or hate me?

00:11:26I've never spoken

00:11:29publicly about this.

00:11:32I think

00:11:33she went on the show

00:11:34because she was

00:11:34getting in trouble

00:11:35for years.

00:11:36She knew

00:11:37they were coming

00:11:38out to her.

00:11:39I wanted to tell

00:11:40my story

00:11:41because I'm

00:11:42one of the victims

00:11:43of one of the housewives.

00:11:49So who else

00:11:50did you guys

00:11:50interview besides

00:11:51us two today?

00:11:53Today?

00:11:54Just you guys.

00:11:55Just you guys.

00:11:55Yeah, yeah.

00:11:57Did Gina talk a lot?

00:12:01I wasn't on

00:12:02season one.

00:12:04I was already

00:12:05divorced from

00:12:05the girl's dad

00:12:06and I was

00:12:07breaking up

00:12:08with my ex,

00:12:09Duff,

00:12:09and my family

00:12:10was going through

00:12:11a lot.

00:12:11But Gina said,

00:12:12go on the show,

00:12:13you'll have fun.

00:12:14I think we just

00:12:14want to hang out.

00:12:16I think I was

00:12:16the first person

00:12:18who tried out.

00:12:20We go into

00:12:21a very naive

00:12:21Nikki that's

00:12:22going to be happy

00:12:23and they just

00:12:24ask what's going on.

00:12:24You're like,

00:12:25do you mind filming?

00:12:25It was very vague.

00:12:27They asked

00:12:27really sweet questions,

00:12:29but then when the show

00:12:30started,

00:12:30it wasn't so sweet.

00:12:34After season one,

00:12:35I think that

00:12:36the production company

00:12:37did a better job

00:12:38of highlighting

00:12:39each woman's

00:12:40singular story

00:12:42and really pulling out

00:12:43the thing that was

00:12:44most interesting

00:12:45about each one.

00:12:46and that means exposing

00:12:48things that could be

00:12:49painful,

00:12:50introducing the audience

00:12:51to relationships

00:12:52in your life

00:12:53that may be

00:12:54a little bit

00:12:54uncomfortable.

00:12:56My story

00:12:57on The Housewives

00:12:58was I was in a

00:12:59relationship

00:13:00with my ex,

00:13:01Duff,

00:13:02and was having

00:13:02a hard time

00:13:03moving on

00:13:03and they showed

00:13:05a lot of that,

00:13:06the back and forth

00:13:07of us,

00:13:08you know,

00:13:08either trying to get

00:13:09back together

00:13:09or not back together.

00:13:12And then

00:13:12a girl's dad died,

00:13:14you know,

00:13:14between season one

00:13:15and season two.

00:13:17I think people

00:13:18that are cast

00:13:20on The Housewives

00:13:21show

00:13:21and take it

00:13:21on are not

00:13:22that happy.

00:13:24I felt

00:13:25damsel in distress,

00:13:26I felt pathetic,

00:13:28I felt like

00:13:28a pity party

00:13:29on myself,

00:13:30I felt like

00:13:30it was just,

00:13:31everybody was sad

00:13:32around me

00:13:33and production

00:13:34was hard

00:13:35on both my girls,

00:13:37it's just hard

00:13:37for them to live

00:13:38a life,

00:13:39you know,

00:13:39don't make me cry,

00:13:40but it's hard

00:13:41for them to live

00:13:42a life.

00:13:43Sorry.

00:13:44I'm sorry to

00:13:45no,

00:13:46I just,

00:13:46I know.

00:13:48I didn't think

00:13:49I was going to

00:13:49go on that road,

00:13:50but,

00:13:51yeah,

00:13:51I don't want

00:13:51to get emotional.

00:13:57The production

00:13:58company would

00:13:59recruit middle

00:14:00to upper class

00:14:01people,

00:14:02and they started

00:14:02finding people

00:14:03that would buy

00:14:04the dream of,

00:14:06hey,

00:14:06you can be on

00:14:07this show

00:14:07and then you'll

00:14:08be a celebrity.

00:14:10And they start

00:14:11to see,

00:14:12is there any

00:14:13outside controversies

00:14:14that will be

00:14:14good storylines?

00:14:16Because if

00:14:17controversy swirls

00:14:18around one of

00:14:19their housewives,

00:14:20that makes for

00:14:20better ratings.

00:14:23You take someone

00:14:24like Tamara Judge,

00:14:25who was on

00:14:25The Real Housewives

00:14:26of Orange County,

00:14:27and what was

00:14:28most interesting

00:14:29about her

00:14:29was that she

00:14:30had a marriage

00:14:31that seemed

00:14:32to have a lot

00:14:32of cracks.

00:14:34On one episode,

00:14:35there were very

00:14:35uncomfortable

00:14:36conversations between

00:14:37Tamara and her

00:14:38husband in a limo.

00:14:40You're not even

00:14:40the same person

00:14:41I knew two years

00:14:41ago.

00:14:42People change.

00:14:43Time makes you

00:14:44change.

00:14:45I hope you're

00:14:46happy with your

00:14:46change.

00:14:47And it was painful

00:14:48to watch.

00:14:48I don't like who

00:14:49you are right now.

00:14:50So it culminated

00:14:52where she finally

00:14:53says,

00:14:53that's it.

00:14:54I want a divorce.

00:14:55you.

00:14:56you.

00:15:03Real Housewives

00:15:04of Orange County

00:15:05jumped to an average

00:15:06of more than

00:15:07two million viewers.

00:15:08If you watch

00:15:09Bravo,

00:15:10you are just

00:15:11in it all the way.

00:15:13I don't know

00:15:13what my problem is,

00:15:14but I love

00:15:15that kind of television.

00:15:16But now,

00:15:17how do we outdo

00:15:18ourselves next season?

00:15:19They want to

00:15:19build their audience.

00:15:20The question

00:15:21in a Housewives

00:15:22franchise is,

00:15:23what does that mean?

00:15:26Lori is the

00:15:27sweetest,

00:15:28kindest,

00:15:28gentlest person,

00:15:30but it seemed

00:15:31like Lori's

00:15:32role in the show

00:15:34was to be

00:15:34the abused

00:15:36secretary.

00:15:37I need to see

00:15:38more effort,

00:15:38more ambition.

00:15:39As an active agent,

00:15:40you definitely

00:15:40want to bring

00:15:41your license.

00:15:42Lori Waring

00:15:43Peterson

00:15:44had three children

00:15:45and ends up

00:15:46meeting a very

00:15:47wealthy man,

00:15:48but before she

00:15:49was a struggling

00:15:50single mother.

00:15:51You would see

00:15:52her filmed

00:15:53in her

00:15:54small townhouse.

00:15:57In the beginning,

00:15:57I don't know

00:15:58that Bravo

00:15:59wanted to

00:16:00point out

00:16:01that the divorce

00:16:02left Lori

00:16:03really struggling,

00:16:04but they seemed

00:16:06to want this

00:16:07single mom

00:16:08that you want

00:16:09to root for

00:16:09and going

00:16:10through all

00:16:11this stuff.

00:16:12And it was

00:16:12very obvious

00:16:13from the beginning

00:16:14that her son

00:16:15was really struggling

00:16:16with addiction

00:16:17issues.

00:16:17I immediately

00:16:18enrolled Josh

00:16:19into a drug

00:16:21rehab center.

00:16:22It was the most

00:16:23depressing moment

00:16:25of my life.

00:16:27What people

00:16:28really liked

00:16:28about her

00:16:29was that she

00:16:29was so honest

00:16:30about how hard

00:16:32it was

00:16:32to manage

00:16:33raising a child

00:16:35that was struggling

00:16:35so much

00:16:36with addiction.

00:16:38When you have

00:16:39those sorts of

00:16:39moments that you

00:16:40just know audiences

00:16:41are going to

00:16:42pick up on,

00:16:43producers go

00:16:44that direction.

00:16:45I mean,

00:16:45that's good

00:16:46producing,

00:16:47but it's odd

00:16:47to me that they

00:16:48don't wait for

00:16:48the ratings to come

00:16:49in.

00:16:49They just know

00:16:49immediately,

00:16:50oh, this is it.

00:16:51This is where

00:16:51we've got to go.

00:16:54So while Lori's

00:16:55on the show,

00:16:56she ends up

00:16:56having a third

00:16:56wedding,

00:16:57but while that's

00:16:58happening,

00:16:58her son Josh

00:16:59is sent to jail

00:16:59because he'd

00:17:00recently been

00:17:00arrested for

00:17:01possession of

00:17:01heroin.

00:17:04Are the police

00:17:05involved?

00:17:06Sadly,

00:17:07her tagline

00:17:08was,

00:17:09are the police

00:17:10involved?

00:17:10It was sort

00:17:11of making light

00:17:12of,

00:17:13I don't know

00:17:14what to expect

00:17:15with my child.

00:17:17At very minimum,

00:17:18Lori had a sense

00:17:19that she needed

00:17:20to pay attention

00:17:21to what was going

00:17:22on and get off

00:17:22television.

00:17:23So she left

00:17:24the show.

00:17:29How are you?

00:17:29Oh, the key

00:17:33to the success

00:17:34of The Real

00:17:34Housewives

00:17:35are The Real

00:17:36Housewives

00:17:36themselves.

00:17:37I mean,

00:17:37the casting

00:17:39is the secret

00:17:40sauce with

00:17:41The Real

00:17:42Housewives.

00:17:43Without them,

00:17:43the show

00:17:44would be

00:17:44nothing.

00:17:45Two years

00:17:46after The Real

00:17:47Housewives of

00:17:47Orange County

00:17:48had taken off,

00:17:49Bravo knew

00:17:50they had a hit

00:17:50franchise.

00:17:51So they launched

00:17:52The Real

00:17:52Housewives of

00:17:53New York

00:17:53and Atlanta

00:17:54and then New

00:17:55Jersey.

00:17:57Real Housewives

00:17:58of New Jersey

00:17:58started in 2009.

00:18:01It was like

00:18:03Sopranos meets

00:18:041950s Housewife.

00:18:07There was

00:18:07something kind

00:18:08of delicious

00:18:08to viewers

00:18:09that they felt

00:18:10like, oh,

00:18:10we're going to

00:18:11see women

00:18:12who have

00:18:12a dark side.

00:18:14I interviewed

00:18:15the executive

00:18:15producers

00:18:16and directors

00:18:16to get all

00:18:17of the back story

00:18:18and there is

00:18:20rumor that

00:18:21The Housewives

00:18:22of New Jersey

00:18:23cast took an

00:18:23unusually long

00:18:25time to sign

00:18:27their contracts

00:18:28and people

00:18:29wondered why

00:18:30that was.

00:18:31Were they

00:18:31concerned about

00:18:32secrets coming

00:18:33out?

00:18:36Daniel Stubb

00:18:37was introduced

00:18:37to us like

00:18:38the woman in

00:18:39town who

00:18:39flirts with

00:18:40every single

00:18:40husband.

00:18:41My motto is

00:18:42you either love

00:18:42me or hate me.

00:18:43She was sort

00:18:44of this minx

00:18:45who you cannot

00:18:46trust her around

00:18:47your husband.

00:18:47like, she was

00:18:48very proud of

00:18:49her body in

00:18:50one of the

00:18:50opening scenes

00:18:51of Real Housewives.

00:18:52She's tanning

00:18:53outside.

00:18:54That was like

00:18:55her thing.

00:18:56She's just

00:18:57mysterious enough

00:18:58to keep you

00:18:59interested and

00:19:00she was constantly

00:19:01complaining about

00:19:02her ex-husband,

00:19:03Kevin Marr.

00:19:07My name is

00:19:08Kevin Marr

00:19:09and I never

00:19:11ever really

00:19:12spoken about

00:19:13my relationship

00:19:14with Daniel Stubb.

00:19:17In 1985, I was

00:19:18a paid confidential

00:19:19informant for the

00:19:20FBI, DEA,

00:19:21Secret Service,

00:19:22U.S. Custom,

00:19:23as well as

00:19:25NYPD, the

00:19:27FDLE in Florida

00:19:28and I worked

00:19:29for them for

00:19:30about five years

00:19:31undercover.

00:19:35It's an average

00:19:36day.

00:19:37I drove down

00:19:38with my brand

00:19:39new Porsche

00:19:40and I pick

00:19:42up John

00:19:43at a club

00:19:44and he was

00:19:45the drug dealer

00:19:46and he goes,

00:19:47we're having a

00:19:47party up there.

00:19:48It was in a

00:19:50hotel room.

00:19:51So on the way

00:19:53to the hotel,

00:19:54he goes,

00:19:54oh, I want you

00:19:55to meet this

00:19:55girl, Beverly

00:19:56Ann Merrill.

00:19:57She's really

00:19:58interesting.

00:19:58You're going

00:19:59to love her.

00:20:00So I go,

00:20:00oh, okay,

00:20:01cool.

00:20:01She's in the

00:20:02room.

00:20:02So John

00:20:03opens the

00:20:04door and

00:20:04leads me in

00:20:05and I walk

00:20:06in and bang,

00:20:08there she is.

00:20:10Everything about

00:20:11her exuded

00:20:12sex.

00:20:13The way she

00:20:13wore her clothes,

00:20:14the way she

00:20:15walked.

00:20:16She was in

00:20:17her absolute

00:20:18prime.

00:20:19Her body

00:20:19was flawless.

00:20:21It was the

00:20:22best sex

00:20:22of my life.

00:20:24It was just

00:20:25a super

00:20:27sexual

00:20:28relations

00:20:29that we

00:20:30had.

00:20:30And that's

00:20:31how I first

00:20:33met Beverly

00:20:34Merrill.

00:20:35Daniel Stobb's

00:20:36original name,

00:20:38Beverly

00:20:39and Merrill.

00:20:43She was

00:20:44involved with

00:20:45a drug

00:20:46dealer and

00:20:48he was

00:20:49involved with

00:20:50narcotic

00:20:50trafficking,

00:20:52pistol whipping

00:20:52somebody,

00:20:54and kidnapping.

00:20:56I think it

00:21:02was the

00:21:02second night

00:21:03that I

00:21:03met her.

00:21:04We were

00:21:05in a hotel

00:21:05and then

00:21:07she confides

00:21:08in me

00:21:09that she's

00:21:10out on

00:21:10bail.

00:21:11She says,

00:21:11you know I've

00:21:12been arrested

00:21:12and I'm

00:21:13facing prison.

00:21:15And then she

00:21:15starts to cry

00:21:16and then,

00:21:19like an idiot,

00:21:20I tell her

00:21:21that I am

00:21:22an undercover

00:21:23confidential

00:21:24informant

00:21:25and there's

00:21:27a lot of

00:21:27things I

00:21:27could do

00:21:28for you.

00:21:29And she

00:21:29was shocked.

00:21:31This is the

00:21:32first time

00:21:33and it's

00:21:34been what,

00:21:3440-something

00:21:35years that

00:21:35I ever

00:21:36talked about

00:21:37that I

00:21:37confided in

00:21:38her and

00:21:38how stupid

00:21:39I was.

00:21:40She could

00:21:40have easily

00:21:40have gotten

00:21:41up and

00:21:41told all

00:21:42these guys

00:21:43that I

00:21:43was informed

00:21:43and I

00:21:44wouldn't

00:21:45have known

00:21:45and I

00:21:46walked right

00:21:47into my

00:21:48own demise.

00:21:49You know

00:21:50what the

00:21:50Colombians

00:21:50would do

00:21:51if they

00:21:51ever

00:21:51found out

00:21:52that I

00:21:52was an

00:21:53informant.

00:21:54Tell me

00:21:55what she

00:21:56tells you

00:21:56about her

00:21:57case.

00:21:58You mean

00:21:58what

00:21:59lies she

00:22:00told me.

00:22:02She never

00:22:02told me

00:22:03her part

00:22:04until I

00:22:05found out

00:22:06later.

00:22:08In 1986,

00:22:09she was

00:22:10involved with

00:22:11a drug

00:22:12dealer.

00:22:13He kidnapped

00:22:14a kid from

00:22:15Buffalo who

00:22:16wanted to

00:22:16get into

00:22:16the drug

00:22:17trade

00:22:17and had

00:22:19stole $25,000

00:22:20worth of

00:22:21cocaine,

00:22:22beat him,

00:22:23held him

00:22:23hostage.

00:22:29Let's

00:22:29stop there.

00:22:30Who does

00:22:31that?

00:22:32Who,

00:22:33who does

00:22:33that?

00:22:35So he

00:22:35goes,

00:22:35let me call

00:22:36my parents.

00:22:37He's on the

00:22:37phone saying,

00:22:38I effed up,

00:22:39I got in

00:22:39trouble,

00:22:39I need

00:22:40$25,000.

00:22:41The father

00:22:42hangs up the

00:22:43phone,

00:22:44calls the

00:22:44FBI,

00:22:46then the

00:22:46FBI arrested

00:22:47them all.

00:22:52She was

00:22:52charged with

00:22:53extortion,

00:22:54kidnapping,

00:22:55drug possession.

00:23:01Out of

00:23:02the folks

00:23:02that were

00:23:03involved in

00:23:04it,

00:23:04she was

00:23:05the least

00:23:05culpable.

00:23:06Not that

00:23:07she wasn't

00:23:07culpable,

00:23:08because she

00:23:08absolutely

00:23:09was,

00:23:09but she

00:23:10was the

00:23:10least

00:23:10culpable.

00:23:12Yeah,

00:23:12I never

00:23:13knew.

00:23:13She fooled

00:23:14me.

00:23:15I just

00:23:16believed it,

00:23:16and I

00:23:17felt sorry

00:23:17for her.

00:23:18And I

00:23:19wanted to

00:23:19help her,

00:23:19and I

00:23:19did.

00:23:20I

00:23:20immediately

00:23:21looked at

00:23:22this 25-year-old

00:23:23girl from

00:23:25upstate

00:23:25Pennsylvania,

00:23:27thinking she's

00:23:28way out of

00:23:28her league,

00:23:29she doesn't

00:23:29know what

00:23:30she's doing.

00:23:31I said,

00:23:32I can help

00:23:32you,

00:23:32can you give

00:23:33me a drug

00:23:33dealer?

00:23:33Yes,

00:23:34she did.

00:23:34To make

00:23:35a long

00:23:35story short,

00:23:36introduces

00:23:37me to

00:23:37this guy,

00:23:38and he

00:23:39gets

00:23:39arrested.

00:23:41So now

00:23:41she's set,

00:23:42everybody's

00:23:43happy.

00:23:49I

00:23:49married

00:23:51Beverly

00:23:51because I

00:23:53knew that

00:23:55this parole

00:23:55guy was

00:23:56going to

00:23:57eventually

00:23:57catch us,

00:23:58and she

00:23:58was going

00:23:59to go to

00:23:59prison,

00:24:00because I

00:24:01am a

00:24:01convicted

00:24:02felon.

00:24:04I

00:24:05married

00:24:06Beverly

00:24:07Merrill

00:24:07October 25,

00:24:091988,

00:24:10and our

00:24:11marriage

00:24:11ended on

00:24:13October 25,

00:24:151989.

00:24:16It's just

00:24:17dawning on me

00:24:18now,

00:24:1840-something

00:24:19years later,

00:24:20and she

00:24:20probably

00:24:21looked at

00:24:21me like

00:24:23playing me

00:24:24the whole

00:24:24time that

00:24:25I helped

00:24:26her with

00:24:27her court

00:24:28case.

00:24:28were you

00:24:32a fan of

00:24:33the series

00:24:33before you

00:24:34got involved?

00:24:35I

00:24:35really

00:24:35hadn't

00:24:36watched

00:24:36it.

00:24:37When we

00:24:37were

00:24:37addressed

00:24:38originally,

00:24:39it took

00:24:40me six

00:24:40months later,

00:24:41I decided,

00:24:42well,

00:24:42maybe I

00:24:43will do

00:24:43this.

00:24:44The next

00:24:44time I

00:24:45would hear

00:24:46from this

00:24:46woman was

00:24:472009.

00:24:48I had a

00:24:49book come

00:24:49out.

00:24:51Cop

00:24:51Without a

00:24:51Badge is

00:24:52based on my

00:24:53undercover life.

00:24:54in it,

00:24:55when you

00:24:55get to

00:24:561986,

00:24:57guess who

00:24:57pops up?

00:24:58So do

00:24:58you love

00:24:59me or

00:24:59hate me?

00:25:01And I

00:25:01get a

00:25:02call and

00:25:03say,

00:25:03hey,

00:25:04you're on

00:25:04this TV

00:25:05show,

00:25:05Real Housewives,

00:25:06they're flashing

00:25:07you a book.

00:25:08First there

00:25:09was all

00:25:09these rumors

00:25:09about Danielle,

00:25:10and now

00:25:11there's a

00:25:12book.

00:25:13One of the

00:25:14housewives,

00:25:14Teresa,

00:25:15does not

00:25:15like Danielle,

00:25:16and because

00:25:17she hates

00:25:17her,

00:25:18Teresa finds

00:25:18this book

00:25:19that details

00:25:20some of

00:25:20Danielle's

00:25:21past,

00:25:22about her

00:25:22allegedly being

00:25:23a sex

00:25:23worker,

00:25:24and about

00:25:24her many

00:25:25engagements,

00:25:26which is

00:25:27not a crime.

00:25:27And she

00:25:28got busted

00:25:28with 10

00:25:29kilos of

00:25:30cocaine,

00:25:31loaded guns.

00:25:32Can you

00:25:33believe this?

00:25:34This is

00:25:34what happened.

00:25:35This is

00:25:36the woman

00:25:36you want

00:25:37in our

00:25:37lives.

00:25:38I remember

00:25:39watching it

00:25:40and thinking

00:25:40like,

00:25:40this feels

00:25:41kind of

00:25:41nasty.

00:25:42And at

00:25:43this one

00:25:44iconic

00:25:45moment,

00:25:46they're sitting

00:25:46at a long

00:25:47table.

00:25:47Teresa

00:25:47Judice is

00:25:48at the

00:25:48head of

00:25:49the table.

00:25:49Danielle

00:25:49is sitting

00:25:50there,

00:25:51and she

00:25:52seems really

00:25:52uncomfortable.

00:25:53And it

00:25:54suggested that

00:25:55she's not

00:25:55being completely

00:25:56honest about

00:25:57who she

00:25:57was.

00:25:58What the

00:25:58audience did

00:25:59not know

00:25:59was that

00:26:00one of the

00:26:00producers

00:26:00was underneath

00:26:02the table

00:26:03and handed

00:26:05the book to

00:26:06Danielle Stahl.

00:26:07And he hands

00:26:07the book to

00:26:08her, and

00:26:09then she

00:26:10brings the

00:26:11book out.

00:26:11And you see

00:26:12Teresa, and

00:26:13her eyes are

00:26:14slowly getting

00:26:15bigger and bigger

00:26:16and bigger.

00:26:16And it

00:26:17says, is

00:26:18this what

00:26:18you're

00:26:18talking

00:26:19about?

00:26:19I'd

00:26:19like to

00:26:20talk to

00:26:20all of

00:26:20you for

00:26:21a minute.

00:26:21I brought

00:26:22this book

00:26:22with me

00:26:23because it

00:26:24seems to

00:26:24be haunting

00:26:26me.

00:26:26I sat

00:26:27at home

00:26:27alone,

00:26:28growing up

00:26:29with diarrhea.

00:26:29I could have

00:26:30stopped laughing.

00:26:31Two things

00:26:32are written

00:26:32that are

00:26:33true.

00:26:33What?

00:26:33Name

00:26:34change?

00:26:34I got

00:26:34arrested.

00:26:35Obviously,

00:26:36there has

00:26:37to be

00:26:37something else.

00:26:38Teresa's

00:26:39over-the-top

00:26:40reaction is

00:26:41to the

00:26:41resentment.

00:26:42You're trying

00:26:43to make me

00:26:43look stupid

00:26:44on a TV show

00:26:44when you're

00:26:45the one who

00:26:45has the

00:26:46criminal

00:26:46activity.

00:26:51What I

00:26:51see in

00:26:51Teresa,

00:26:51there's

00:26:52actually a

00:26:52hysterical

00:26:53component.

00:26:53She literally

00:26:54loses track

00:26:55of herself.

00:26:55And that's

00:26:56when everything

00:26:56kind of,

00:26:57like,

00:26:57explodes.

00:26:59You are

00:26:59f***ing

00:27:00Dave 19

00:27:01time!

00:27:02You f***ing

00:27:03a bitch!

00:27:04You f***ing

00:27:05a rat!

00:27:07Coming to

00:27:08my trap!

00:27:09You f***ing

00:27:10f***ing

00:27:10in my

00:27:11f***ing

00:27:12ass!

00:27:13Okay,

00:27:14who does

00:27:15that?

00:27:16There are

00:27:1620 people

00:27:17sitting at

00:27:18this table

00:27:18and she

00:27:19is sending

00:27:20wine glasses

00:27:21flying.

00:27:22If somebody

00:27:22did that

00:27:23in real life,

00:27:23you'd call

00:27:23the cops.

00:27:24You'd have

00:27:25them arrested.

00:27:26That's

00:27:26domestic

00:27:26violence.

00:27:27Teresa

00:27:28was so

00:27:28fixated

00:27:29about

00:27:30Danielle

00:27:31allegedly

00:27:31being a

00:27:32sex worker.

00:27:33She

00:27:33loses

00:27:33the fact

00:27:34that Danielle

00:27:35was convicted

00:27:35of a felony.

00:27:37So I don't

00:27:37think most

00:27:38viewers actually

00:27:38know that.

00:27:39What we

00:27:39remember

00:27:40is engaged

00:27:4119 times,

00:27:42you

00:27:42prostitution

00:27:43whore.

00:27:44Does he

00:27:45really want

00:27:45to know

00:27:45what I

00:27:45think?

00:27:46Yeah.

00:27:46I don't

00:27:47know.

00:27:47I thought

00:27:47it was...

00:27:49I think

00:27:49that's

00:27:49violent and

00:27:50I'm not

00:27:50into that.

00:27:51I mean,

00:27:51who wants

00:27:52to see

00:27:52mud wrestling

00:27:53but it's

00:27:54coming next

00:27:54I suppose.

00:27:55The table

00:27:56flip,

00:27:56it's kind

00:27:57of a rare

00:27:57glimpse

00:27:58into female

00:27:58rage.

00:27:59You don't

00:27:59get a lot

00:28:00of that

00:28:00in reality

00:28:01TV.

00:28:02You don't.

00:28:03By this

00:28:03point,

00:28:03Bravo

00:28:04Hood aired

00:28:0485 episodes

00:28:05over four

00:28:06different iterations

00:28:07of the

00:28:07Housewives

00:28:08but that

00:28:09episode

00:28:09got around

00:28:10three and a

00:28:11half million

00:28:12viewers.

00:28:13That wasn't

00:28:14just the

00:28:14highest episode

00:28:15of that

00:28:15season,

00:28:16it was the

00:28:16highest episode

00:28:17of all the

00:28:17Real Housewives

00:28:18so far.

00:28:19That scene

00:28:21became so

00:28:22played that

00:28:23it pushed her

00:28:24into mainstream

00:28:25fame.

00:28:27You see

00:28:28Trace on

00:28:28other shows,

00:28:29I mean,

00:28:29she brings up

00:28:30the table flip,

00:28:31she mimics the

00:28:32table flip,

00:28:33it's become

00:28:33part of her

00:28:34brand.

00:28:34You

00:28:34ranked age

00:28:3519 times

00:28:36Teresa

00:28:41Giudice

00:28:41was one

00:28:42of the

00:28:42first

00:28:42Housewives

00:28:43to

00:28:44utilize

00:28:44every

00:28:45branding

00:28:46opportunity.

00:28:48She gets

00:28:49a book deal

00:28:50to make

00:28:50a cookbook.

00:28:52There were

00:28:52deals with

00:28:53magazines

00:28:54just to

00:28:55do a

00:28:56photo shoot

00:28:56with her

00:28:57whole family

00:28:57in order

00:28:59to sell

00:28:59issues

00:29:00of the

00:29:00magazine.

00:29:02She had

00:29:03a reputation

00:29:03as somebody

00:29:04who seemed

00:29:05up for

00:29:06any

00:29:06opportunity

00:29:07that would

00:29:07make

00:29:07money

00:29:08outside

00:29:08of the

00:29:08show.

00:29:09And then

00:29:10who knew

00:29:11that her

00:29:11life was

00:29:12going to be

00:29:12crazier

00:29:12than

00:29:13anything?

00:29:16In 2012,

00:29:18one of the

00:29:18case agents

00:29:19with IRS

00:29:20criminal

00:29:20investigation

00:29:20happened to

00:29:21be watching

00:29:22The Real

00:29:23Housewives of

00:29:23New Jersey

00:29:24and it

00:29:24shows a

00:29:25significant

00:29:25amount of

00:29:25cash

00:29:26that was

00:29:26being

00:29:26expended

00:29:27by

00:29:27Teresa.

00:29:28As we

00:29:28started to

00:29:29peel back

00:29:29the layers,

00:29:30we identified

00:29:31one loan

00:29:32application

00:29:32way before

00:29:34the TV

00:29:34show.

00:29:35She supplied

00:29:36pay stubs.

00:29:38That job

00:29:38did not

00:29:39exist.

00:29:41She had

00:29:41applied for

00:29:42another mortgage

00:29:43and this time

00:29:44she claimed

00:29:44that she was

00:29:45a realtor

00:29:45making $15,000

00:29:46a month

00:29:47and when in

00:29:48fact it was

00:29:49totally

00:29:49fabricated.

00:29:50then after

00:29:52the first

00:29:52season here

00:29:53in New Jersey

00:29:54Teresa and

00:29:55Joe filed

00:29:56for Chapter

00:29:567 bankruptcy

00:29:57but they

00:29:59claimed that

00:29:59they were

00:30:00earning less

00:30:01than what

00:30:02they actually

00:30:02were.

00:30:04In addition,

00:30:05Joe and

00:30:05Teresa had

00:30:06not filed

00:30:06a tax return

00:30:07for at least

00:30:08eight years

00:30:08from 2000

00:30:09through 2008.

00:30:11Did he need

00:30:11the statement

00:30:11while she was

00:30:12there?

00:30:16So Teresa

00:30:18received 15

00:30:19months in

00:30:19prison

00:30:20and Joe

00:30:21received 41

00:30:22months in

00:30:23prison.

00:30:24One generosity

00:30:25that the courts

00:30:26gave was that

00:30:26they didn't have

00:30:27to serve at

00:30:27the same time

00:30:28so that somebody

00:30:28could stay

00:30:29with their

00:30:29children

00:30:29which is

00:30:30truly an

00:30:32allowance only

00:30:33given to the

00:30:34wealthy white

00:30:35Americans of

00:30:36the world

00:30:36because no one

00:30:37else is getting

00:30:38that.

00:30:39Since that

00:30:40happened,

00:30:40so much of

00:30:41the housewives

00:30:42is rooted on

00:30:43who's actually

00:30:44rich.

00:30:45That was like

00:30:45a big thing

00:30:46for Erica

00:30:46Jane.

00:30:48Erica

00:30:48Jane

00:30:49was kind

00:30:50of the

00:30:50closest

00:30:51the housewives

00:30:52got to

00:30:52like a

00:30:53real Barbie.

00:30:55Like

00:30:55it was

00:30:57a new

00:30:57look

00:30:58every single

00:30:59scene.

00:31:00She has

00:31:00all these

00:31:01different

00:31:02matching

00:31:02outfits.

00:31:03She was

00:31:03presented

00:31:04as incredibly

00:31:04wealthy.

00:31:05So Barbie

00:31:06had Ken

00:31:07and Erica

00:31:08had Tom

00:31:09Girardi.

00:31:09Isn't that

00:31:10great?

00:31:11You know,

00:31:11you feel

00:31:11really good

00:31:12about yourself.

00:31:13A very,

00:31:13very powerful

00:31:14class action

00:31:15Los Angeles

00:31:15attorney.

00:31:17But they

00:31:18did not

00:31:18earn that

00:31:19money.

00:31:20He basically

00:31:20wasn't paying

00:31:21the people

00:31:21that he was

00:31:22supposed to

00:31:22pay.

00:31:22He was

00:31:23using that

00:31:23money to

00:31:23finance her

00:31:24pop career.

00:31:25needy

00:31:33Leakes

00:31:34was a

00:31:34breakout star

00:31:35for

00:31:35House

00:31:35Fest of

00:31:35Atlanta.

00:31:36I know

00:31:36Needy

00:31:37very well.

00:31:37I think

00:31:38she's

00:31:38lovely.

00:31:40But before

00:31:40she was

00:31:41on the

00:31:41show,

00:31:42when she

00:31:42was 25

00:31:42years of

00:31:43age,

00:31:43ripped off

00:31:43her phone

00:31:44company to

00:31:45the tune

00:31:45of a couple

00:31:45thousand

00:31:46dollars,

00:31:47she had

00:31:47to pay

00:31:47restitution

00:31:48and two

00:31:48years of

00:31:49probation.

00:31:49And the

00:31:51audience kind

00:31:51of just

00:31:52thought,

00:31:52all right,

00:31:53well,

00:31:53that kind

00:31:54of makes

00:31:54you more

00:31:54interesting.

00:31:55I think

00:31:56it was

00:31:56probably

00:31:56clear to

00:31:57producers

00:31:57pretty early

00:31:57on that

00:31:59maybe it's

00:32:00worth putting

00:32:00someone in

00:32:01on the show

00:32:01who does

00:32:02have crimes

00:32:02committed in

00:32:03the past.

00:32:03Because if you

00:32:04do have any

00:32:05legal issues,

00:32:05I think it was

00:32:06clear that that

00:32:06would be

00:32:07enticing to

00:32:08viewership.

00:32:09And it gave

00:32:09them something

00:32:09to talk about

00:32:10every season.

00:32:11You're lucky

00:32:12Danielle was

00:32:13here, guys.

00:32:13If she wasn't

00:32:14on the first

00:32:15two seasons,

00:32:16what would we

00:32:16have been

00:32:17watching?

00:32:18Erica,

00:32:18Jane,

00:32:18Girardi's

00:32:19about to be

00:32:20sued for

00:32:20racketeering,

00:32:21you guys.

00:32:22After Shannon's

00:32:23DUI,

00:32:24this is massive.

00:32:25It's epic.

00:32:28The funny

00:32:29thing about

00:32:29Teresa,

00:32:30she actually

00:32:30went back

00:32:31on Housewives

00:32:32after jail.

00:32:33My big

00:32:34question with

00:32:34this is always

00:32:35like,

00:32:35what crimes

00:32:36does Bravo

00:32:36consider too

00:32:37big to

00:32:39stay on

00:32:39the franchise?

00:32:41What crime

00:32:42is the wrong

00:32:43crime to have

00:32:43on a show

00:32:44like this?

00:32:47Take a look

00:32:48at the picture.

00:32:48Yay!

00:32:51It's

00:32:52Jen!

00:32:54Yes,

00:32:54this is

00:32:55exactly how

00:32:55I remember

00:32:56her.

00:32:57Yeah,

00:32:57so Jen

00:32:58Louie,

00:32:59we were in

00:32:59the same

00:33:00high school

00:33:00south of

00:33:01Salt Lake

00:33:01City.

00:33:02The first

00:33:03time I

00:33:03remember

00:33:04seeing Jen

00:33:04was an

00:33:06assembly

00:33:06on the

00:33:06basketball

00:33:07court,

00:33:07and she

00:33:08just had

00:33:08this look

00:33:09of uncertainty,

00:33:10but as

00:33:11she walked

00:33:12over with

00:33:12the cheer

00:33:13group.

00:33:14When that

00:33:14head came

00:33:15up and

00:33:16the eyes

00:33:16were up,

00:33:17it was

00:33:18just magic.

00:33:19She was

00:33:20the only

00:33:20girl that

00:33:20could dance

00:33:21and she

00:33:22was fun

00:33:22to watch.

00:33:26She was

00:33:27different than

00:33:27everybody else.

00:33:29Salt Lake City

00:33:30is synonymous

00:33:31with the

00:33:31Mormon church,

00:33:32but here

00:33:32is a

00:33:33Polynesian

00:33:33girl.

00:33:34At first,

00:33:35it seemed to me

00:33:36that she was

00:33:37a little shy.

00:33:38I never

00:33:39went over

00:33:39to her

00:33:40house.

00:33:40I never

00:33:40had sleepovers.

00:33:41She was

00:33:42a good

00:33:42girl.

00:33:44After high

00:33:45school,

00:33:45we all

00:33:46did our

00:33:46own thing.

00:33:47What I

00:33:47knew about

00:33:48Jen was

00:33:48that she

00:33:49had two

00:33:49children and

00:33:50that she

00:33:50had married

00:33:51a coach

00:33:51at the

00:33:52University

00:33:52of Utah.

00:33:53She became

00:33:54Jen Shaw,

00:33:55and she

00:33:56just really,

00:33:57to me,

00:33:57seemed like

00:33:58she had her

00:33:58life together

00:33:59successful and

00:34:00everything

00:34:00looked

00:34:01perfect.

00:34:05Then I

00:34:06had a high

00:34:06school classmate

00:34:07about five

00:34:08years ago

00:34:08said,

00:34:09hey,

00:34:09have you

00:34:10seen

00:34:10Jen Louie

00:34:11on TV?

00:34:13Bravo announced

00:34:14that their

00:34:1410th installment

00:34:14was going

00:34:15to be Salt

00:34:15Lake City.

00:34:16I was convinced

00:34:17it would be

00:34:18bad.

00:34:19Salt Lake

00:34:19is a weird

00:34:20city to

00:34:20pick.

00:34:21Housewives

00:34:22is usually

00:34:22warm weather

00:34:23climates.

00:34:24It's women

00:34:24on beaches.

00:34:26It's women

00:34:26having lunch

00:34:27outside.

00:34:27It didn't

00:34:28seem to fit

00:34:29into the

00:34:29typical Real

00:34:30Housewives

00:34:31mold.

00:34:32It seemed

00:34:32almost like

00:34:34they found

00:34:34a bunch

00:34:35of characters

00:34:35and then

00:34:36kind of

00:34:36put them

00:34:36together.

00:34:37But there

00:34:38was one

00:34:38housewife

00:34:39in particular

00:34:39that really

00:34:40stood out.

00:34:41I saw

00:34:41her picture

00:34:41and I

00:34:42was like,

00:34:42wow,

00:34:43wow,

00:34:43Jen,

00:34:44she's done

00:34:45really well.

00:34:46Jen Shaw

00:34:47had crazy

00:34:48outfits,

00:34:48big jewels,

00:34:49nails like

00:34:50daggers.

00:34:51Jen looked

00:34:51like a

00:34:52different person.

00:34:53It had

00:34:54changed from

00:34:54hometown girl

00:34:55to somebody

00:34:56more high

00:34:57profile,

00:34:57I'd say.

00:34:58It was like

00:34:58she had

00:34:59emerged from

00:35:00the goop

00:35:00of the

00:35:01Matrix,

00:35:01but the

00:35:02goop was

00:35:02like real

00:35:03Housewives

00:35:03material.

00:35:04I always

00:35:05say that

00:35:06reality stars

00:35:07have

00:35:07celebrity

00:35:08syndrome.

00:35:09And what

00:35:09that is

00:35:09is that

00:35:10they've

00:35:10always

00:35:10perceived

00:35:11themselves

00:35:11as a

00:35:13celebrity.

00:35:14Jen Shaw

00:35:15had taglines

00:35:15like Shaw-mazing.

00:35:18I want it to be

00:35:18Shaw-mazing.

00:35:19I want it to be

00:35:20shabulous.

00:35:21This is

00:35:22like somebody

00:35:23who had

00:35:23studied

00:35:23several

00:35:24seasons

00:35:25of not

00:35:25just

00:35:26one

00:35:26franchise

00:35:27of

00:35:27Real

00:35:27Housewives

00:35:28but

00:35:28several

00:35:28who

00:35:29thought

00:35:30quite a bit

00:35:31about like

00:35:32who am I

00:35:32going to be

00:35:33on a show

00:35:33and perceive

00:35:35themselves as

00:35:36a potential

00:35:36megastar on

00:35:37the network.

00:35:38Now that

00:35:39is celebrity

00:35:40syndrome.

00:35:43Sometimes

00:35:43the Real

00:35:44Housewives

00:35:44producers

00:35:45will do us

00:35:45a solid

00:35:46and show

00:35:46us

00:35:47audition

00:35:47videotapes

00:35:48because

00:35:48that is

00:35:49really

00:35:49the most

00:35:50authentic

00:35:50version

00:35:50of themselves.

00:35:51I'm Jen Shaw.

00:35:52I'm 28

00:35:53years old

00:35:54aka 45.

00:35:55In the

00:35:56audition tape

00:35:56she's so

00:35:57braggadocious

00:35:58so over the

00:35:59top.

00:36:00I probably

00:36:00spend at least

00:36:0050 grand

00:36:01a month.

00:36:02She's talking

00:36:02about how

00:36:03she spends

00:36:03$50,000

00:36:04a month

00:36:04on all

00:36:06of her

00:36:06beauty

00:36:07and fashion

00:36:08needs

00:36:08and you're

00:36:09like real

00:36:09people don't

00:36:10do that.

00:36:13Jen was

00:36:13living a

00:36:14lifestyle

00:36:14that was

00:36:15incredibly

00:36:16opulent

00:36:16hair and

00:36:17makeup

00:36:17every day

00:36:17designer

00:36:18clothing

00:36:18all these

00:36:19vacations

00:36:20private jets

00:36:21they have

00:36:21kids they're

00:36:21sending to

00:36:22college

00:36:22and her

00:36:23husband

00:36:23is a

00:36:24university

00:36:25football

00:36:26coach

00:36:26so nobody

00:36:28could understand

00:36:29how she had

00:36:30so much money

00:36:31it all seemed

00:36:32a little smoke

00:36:32and mirrors

00:36:32from the very

00:36:33beginning

00:36:33tell me your name

00:36:36and what's your

00:36:37connection to this

00:36:38story

00:36:38my name is

00:36:40Molly McLaughlin

00:36:40I was one of the

00:36:42victims of Jen Shaw

00:36:43and her company

00:36:44so introduce

00:36:53yourself and

00:36:54your connection

00:36:54I'm Penny

00:36:56Puckett

00:36:56we're a small

00:36:58farm

00:36:58we were just

00:36:59barely making

00:37:00it

00:37:00and so I

00:37:01was trying

00:37:02to figure

00:37:03out a way

00:37:03to make

00:37:04some extra

00:37:05money

00:37:05and so I

00:37:07thought I'd

00:37:07make snuggle

00:37:08blankets

00:37:08or car seat

00:37:09blankets

00:37:09that would

00:37:10be something

00:37:11that I

00:37:11could market

00:37:12but I

00:37:13needed to

00:37:14understand

00:37:14how to

00:37:15do it

00:37:16my name

00:37:19is

00:37:19Molly McLaughlin

00:37:20in 2016

00:37:24I had

00:37:25been

00:37:26let go

00:37:27of the

00:37:27job I

00:37:28had

00:37:28because

00:37:28the

00:37:29department

00:37:29was

00:37:29eliminated

00:37:30and so

00:37:31I was

00:37:31just

00:37:32searching

00:37:32pulling up

00:37:33you know

00:37:33like

00:37:33online

00:37:34work from

00:37:34home

00:37:35jobs

00:37:35so I

00:37:36just

00:37:36happened

00:37:37to kind

00:37:37of

00:37:37stumble

00:37:38across

00:37:39this

00:37:39website

00:37:40that had

00:37:41talked

00:37:41about

00:37:42online

00:37:42marketing

00:37:42work

00:37:43just

00:37:44reading

00:37:44over

00:37:45the

00:37:45description

00:37:45it

00:37:46sounded

00:37:46exactly

00:37:46like

00:37:47oh yeah

00:37:47that's

00:37:48definitely

00:37:48something

00:37:49I can

00:37:49do

00:37:49you

00:37:50just

00:37:50had

00:37:50to

00:37:50fill

00:37:51out

00:37:51some

00:37:51forms

00:37:51on

00:37:52the

00:37:52internet

00:37:53and

00:37:53that

00:37:54is

00:37:54where

00:37:54they

00:37:54get

00:37:54you

00:37:55my name

00:37:59is

00:37:59Joe

00:37:59Bish

00:38:00I've

00:38:00never

00:38:00spoken

00:38:01publicly

00:38:02about

00:38:02this

00:38:02or

00:38:02the

00:38:03industry

00:38:03or

00:38:03Jen

00:38:04go ahead

00:38:05and have

00:38:05a seat

00:38:06I was

00:38:07in the

00:38:08sales

00:38:08industry

00:38:09for

00:38:0910

00:38:10plus

00:38:10years

00:38:11that's

00:38:11when I

00:38:12first

00:38:12met

00:38:12Jen

00:38:13I

00:38:15worked

00:38:15originally

00:38:15for a sales

00:38:16company

00:38:16selling people

00:38:17on how to do

00:38:18online businesses

00:38:19and what happened

00:38:21is that somebody

00:38:22it would fill out

00:38:23their name

00:38:23they'd fill out

00:38:24their information

00:38:24and the company

00:38:25would own that

00:38:26information

00:38:26that information

00:38:28would become a lead

00:38:29so let's

00:38:30sort of call out

00:38:31a lead

00:38:31for what it is

00:38:32it's someone

00:38:33who would be a target

00:38:34a mark

00:38:35for a potential

00:38:36brift

00:38:36the leads

00:38:37are everything

00:38:38Jen

00:38:39Shaw

00:38:39she was

00:38:40the queen

00:38:41of leads

00:38:42man

00:38:42she was in

00:38:43charge of

00:38:44finding new

00:38:45leads

00:38:45getting lead

00:38:47providers

00:38:47and we

00:38:48were four

00:38:49of people

00:38:50like 30

00:38:50people on

00:38:51phones

00:38:51that all

00:38:51they do

00:38:52is call

00:38:52those leads

00:38:52and sell

00:38:53them

00:38:53I started

00:38:55getting phone

00:38:56calls

00:38:57from these

00:38:58different

00:38:58companies

00:38:58it looks

00:38:59like you

00:39:00purchased

00:39:00a program

00:39:01are you

00:39:01really serious

00:39:02about making

00:39:02money online

00:39:03they're very

00:39:04persuasive

00:39:05look

00:39:05if you pay

00:39:06us

00:39:06we'll

00:39:06one-on-one

00:39:08coach you

00:39:08on how to

00:39:09set up

00:39:09your online

00:39:10business

00:39:10and we'll

00:39:11give you all

00:39:12the tools

00:39:12software

00:39:13and

00:39:13training

00:39:14specialists

00:39:15who would

00:39:16help you

00:39:17develop a

00:39:18website

00:39:19my

00:39:20cost

00:39:21which

00:39:22did have

00:39:23a bit of

00:39:23sticker shock

00:39:24was $10,000

00:39:24to start

00:39:26I thought

00:39:28it was actually

00:39:29legit

00:39:30and

00:39:30if it is

00:39:31a legitimate

00:39:32business

00:39:32you do

00:39:33have to

00:39:34spend

00:39:34money

00:39:34to make

00:39:35money

00:39:36so here

00:39:38I had

00:39:38$8,000

00:39:39on a

00:39:40credit card

00:39:40but they

00:39:41had me

00:39:42do a

00:39:42wire

00:39:43transaction

00:39:43so every

00:39:44step it

00:39:45went it

00:39:46got upsold

00:39:46into something

00:39:47more

00:39:48it was ruthless

00:39:48we'd walk

00:39:50them through

00:39:50getting credit

00:39:51cards even

00:39:51we would

00:39:53literally

00:39:53get them

00:39:54third party

00:39:55calling

00:39:55discover

00:39:56card

00:39:56master

00:39:56card

00:39:57and getting

00:39:58them approved

00:39:58for a $5,000

00:39:59credit card

00:40:00$6,000

00:40:01credit card

00:40:01yeah

00:40:02so I had

00:40:03to open up

00:40:03a couple

00:40:03more credit

00:40:04cards

00:40:05to

00:40:05make it

00:40:07work

00:40:07when all

00:40:10was said

00:40:10and done

00:40:11the company

00:40:12stole

00:40:12$44,000

00:40:14from me

00:40:15at that point

00:40:20I had to go

00:40:21with bankruptcy

00:40:22I remember

00:40:24one time

00:40:25actually

00:40:25that

00:40:26I think

00:40:28I was on

00:40:28the phone

00:40:29with

00:40:30my husband

00:40:31and

00:40:32I told him

00:40:34I want to cry

00:40:35and he said

00:40:35why

00:40:36and I said

00:40:36I have a headache

00:40:38and I can't even

00:40:39afford headache

00:40:39medicine

00:40:40I didn't even

00:40:41have

00:40:41$4 or $5

00:40:43to buy

00:40:44a little jar

00:40:46of it

00:40:46to take care

00:40:47of the headache

00:40:47I had lost

00:40:49somewhere around

00:40:50the $30,000

00:40:52mark

00:40:53as hard as it is

00:40:54to talk about

00:40:56it's also

00:40:58healing

00:40:59in one sense

00:41:01sorry

00:41:02because it's been

00:41:06a pretty emotional

00:41:07rollercoaster

00:41:08everything that was

00:41:13sold in this

00:41:14industry

00:41:14was legit

00:41:16and was probably

00:41:17worth three to five

00:41:18grand

00:41:19but sold at

00:41:2030 to 50 grand

00:41:21that was the real

00:41:23problem in this

00:41:24industry

00:41:24it wasn't that

00:41:25it was illegitimate

00:41:26it was that

00:41:27it was way

00:41:28overly sold

00:41:29then the FTC

00:41:33came in and

00:41:34changed things

00:41:35they went

00:41:36look at man

00:41:36this is

00:41:37not right

00:41:38you are way

00:41:40overselling

00:41:41these people

00:41:41the FTC

00:41:43was putting

00:41:44a stranglehold

00:41:45on the lead

00:41:45providers online

00:41:46the FTC

00:41:47would find

00:41:48them

00:41:48there were floor

00:41:50owners at

00:41:50Winch Prison

00:41:51and that's what

00:41:52brought attention

00:41:53to Jen

00:41:54probably

00:41:55because she was

00:41:56queen of leads

00:41:57and it's possible

00:41:58she could go down

00:41:59don't you have an

00:42:08opinion

00:42:09you're a smart woman

00:42:09you have an opinion

00:42:10of what's right

00:42:11and what's wrong

00:42:12right

00:42:12see right there

00:42:14that's a perfect

00:42:16example of Jen

00:42:17selling somebody

00:42:18it was like

00:42:20man she goes

00:42:21on the housewives

00:42:21and everybody

00:42:23in this industry

00:42:24was like

00:42:25what in the

00:42:25is Jen doing

00:42:27they were like

00:42:29oh if they haven't

00:42:29got it now

00:42:30they're definitely

00:42:30gonna get her now

00:42:31then she's definitely

00:42:32going down now

00:42:33in the second season

00:42:40cameras continue

00:42:41to film

00:42:42Jen Shaw

00:42:43in one of the scenes

00:42:44before she exit

00:42:45the Sprinter van

00:42:45she's getting a phone

00:42:46call

00:42:46from someone

00:42:48seemingly

00:42:49giving her a heads up

00:42:50that something

00:42:51was about to happen

00:42:52all of a sudden

00:42:54being surrounded

00:42:55by like the FBI

00:42:56and like a SWAT team

00:42:58we're looking for Jen Shaw

00:42:59it was the craziest

00:43:01episode of television

00:43:02I had ever seen

00:43:03ever

00:43:04it was so nuts

00:43:06Jen Shaw

00:43:08and her assistant

00:43:09are arrested

00:43:11for a conspiracy

00:43:12to commit wire fraud

00:43:12and this wire fraud

00:43:15is to the tune

00:43:15of five million dollars

00:43:17I received a call

00:43:24out of the blue

00:43:25and then they let me know

00:43:27that it was about

00:43:29Jen Shaw

00:43:29I had never heard

00:43:33of her

00:43:34Jen Shaw

00:43:35is the puppet master

00:43:36the one you never

00:43:38see

00:43:39but the one who

00:43:40profits the most

00:43:42it was quite

00:43:46frustrating

00:43:48seeing the clips

00:43:49of her

00:43:51walking around

00:43:52this extravagant

00:43:54lifestyle

00:43:55and me thinking

00:43:58that's where

00:43:58my money went

00:43:59so cameras

00:44:02continue to film

00:44:03Jen Shaw

00:44:04and then you get

00:44:04to see her in moments

00:44:05with her own family

00:44:06thanks

00:44:07yeah

00:44:08and they've bailed her out

00:44:11in so many circumstances

00:44:13and she's denying

00:44:15she did anything wrong

00:44:16any fault

00:44:17it is because

00:44:18I am too giving

00:44:19my first thought

00:44:21was she was going

00:44:22on there to justify

00:44:23herself

00:44:24about her actions

00:44:25and make herself

00:44:27look so innocent

00:44:28when you're going

00:44:29into a trial

00:44:30it's important

00:44:32to have the facts

00:44:33and the truth out there

00:44:34not speculation

00:44:35rumors

00:44:35and lies

00:44:36they never kicked

00:44:37Jen off the show

00:44:38it's a great storyline

00:44:39you know

00:44:40and they say

00:44:40oh innocent

00:44:41until proven guilty

00:44:42and then

00:44:43a couple months

00:44:44later

00:44:44she pleads guilty

00:44:46and it's a complete shock

00:44:47Jen pled guilty

00:44:49to conspiracy

00:44:50to commit wire fraud

00:44:51and in January 2023

00:44:53she was sentenced

00:44:54to six and a half years

00:44:55in minimum security prison

00:44:56I'm vaguely aware

00:44:58that she has had

00:45:00problems

00:45:01and that she's

00:45:02hurt people

00:45:03we'd love for you

00:45:05to read the first

00:45:06two paragraphs

00:45:06in particular

00:45:07Shaw

00:45:08knowingly

00:45:09and intentionally

00:45:10facilitated

00:45:11the sales

00:45:11of leads

00:45:12there's lots

00:45:13of people

00:45:13who are

00:45:14really

00:45:15really broke

00:45:16now

00:45:17because of

00:45:17Jen Shaw's scams

00:45:18many of Shaw's victims

00:45:21were elderly

00:45:21or vulnerable

00:45:22many of those people

00:45:24suffered significant

00:45:25financial hardship

00:45:26and damage

00:45:26at Shaw's direction

00:45:28victims were defrauded

00:45:29over and over again

00:45:30until they had nothing left

00:45:31until the victim's

00:45:32bank accounts

00:45:33were empty

00:45:33one of Jen Shaw's

00:45:35victims

00:45:35ended up homeless

00:45:37their credit cards

00:45:39were at their limits

00:45:40and there was nothing

00:45:41more to take

00:45:42that's heartbreaking

00:45:45that shifts

00:45:48my whole focus

00:45:49away from her

00:45:50and it puts her

00:45:52in a completely

00:45:52different light

00:45:54in my mind

00:45:54people have saved

00:45:56their whole life savings

00:45:57and to have nothing left

00:45:58and to just go

00:45:59and go

00:45:59and take it all

00:46:00it's pretty sick

00:46:02it seems like

00:46:07the housewives

00:46:08franchise

00:46:08lean into it

00:46:09when somebody

00:46:10has a history

00:46:11of criminal behavior

00:46:11they know it

00:46:12but we like

00:46:14seeing them

00:46:15exposed

00:46:16and the question is

00:46:19how far does that go

00:46:21now we have

00:46:22substance use

00:46:24fraud

00:46:24to aggression

00:46:26where does this go

00:46:28what's next

00:46:29what's bigger

00:46:31what's louder

00:46:31than we already have

00:46:32Taylor Armstrong

00:46:34her story

00:46:35is the most troubling

00:46:36to me

00:46:37what do you know

00:46:38about Taylor

00:46:39before she's

00:46:41the housewife

00:46:42oh nothing

00:46:43nothing

00:46:44did you ever

00:46:45get to know

00:46:45Taylor Armstrong

00:46:46no

00:46:47no

00:46:47the cat meme

00:46:49that like

00:46:49went viral

00:46:50that's Taylor

00:46:51yelling at this cat

00:46:53Taylor Armstrong

00:46:54appears

00:46:55first

00:46:56in the first season

00:46:58of Real Housewives

00:46:59at Beverly Hills

00:47:00she seemed to be

00:47:05really mysterious

00:47:05she was sort of

00:47:06cagey about

00:47:07her life

00:47:08before Beverly Hills

00:47:10I think my friend's

00:47:13life would have been

00:47:14a hundred percent

00:47:16different

00:47:16if he would have

00:47:17never got to Taylor

00:47:18my name's Randy Edwards

00:47:20I met Russell Armstrong

00:47:21when I was 12 years old

00:47:23playing Little League

00:47:24we grew up in

00:47:26Carrollton Texas

00:47:27by 14

00:47:28we were best friends

00:47:30and we were

00:47:31pretty much

00:47:31inseparable

00:47:32all the way

00:47:33through high school

00:47:34he had a big heart

00:47:36but yet he wanted

00:47:37to be rich

00:47:38Russell wanted

00:47:41to be perceived

00:47:42as a successful

00:47:43venture capitalist

00:47:44he was from Texas

00:47:45and came into

00:47:46Beverly Hills

00:47:47and Russell had

00:47:50a lot of odd

00:47:51businesses

00:47:51that dealt

00:47:52with getting

00:47:53people's money

00:47:53like for investors

00:47:55I mean that's

00:47:57when he met Taylor

00:47:58her name was

00:48:02Shayna Hughes

00:48:02and then she changed

00:48:03it to Ford

00:48:04it almost seemed

00:48:06as if she used

00:48:06the Ford moniker

00:48:07because it would have

00:48:08brought on

00:48:09some level of prestige

00:48:11she has nothing

00:48:12to do with the Ford

00:48:13family

00:48:13the Ford Motor Company

00:48:14family at all

00:48:16I believe Taylor

00:48:17had four names

00:48:18total

00:48:19I think Russ

00:48:20went for someone

00:48:21like Taylor

00:48:22because that was

00:48:23just part of the

00:48:24whole LA scene

00:48:26he was in

00:48:27Russell and Taylor

00:48:28married within a year

00:48:29and had a child

00:48:30Kennedy

00:48:31Russ posted

00:48:34something on Facebook

00:48:35that Taylor

00:48:36and he were going

00:48:38to be on a

00:48:38new series

00:48:40that was the

00:48:40Real Housewives

00:48:41of Beverly Hills

00:48:42I called him

00:48:45and one of Russ's

00:48:46close friends

00:48:48had actually

00:48:48questioned Russ

00:48:49are you sure

00:48:50you want to do

00:48:51a reality TV show

00:48:52he was like

00:48:53have you seen

00:48:53those reality series

00:48:54and what they're

00:48:55going to do

00:48:55when I saw Russ

00:48:58he had specifically

00:48:59said that

00:49:00he just did it

00:49:01for Taylor

00:49:02so in 2010

00:49:07Bravo started

00:49:08airing

00:49:08The Real Housewives

00:49:09of Beverly Hills

00:49:09I love

00:49:11The Beverly Hills

00:49:12in the beginning

00:49:13they were all

00:49:14like princesses

00:49:15you know

00:49:15they had

00:49:15so much

00:49:16and their houses

00:49:17were fabulous

00:49:18each franchise

00:49:20tells a different

00:49:21story

00:49:22so The Real Housewives

00:49:23of Beverly Hills

00:49:24is really the story

00:49:25of women

00:49:26that work

00:49:26within

00:49:27or of close

00:49:28proximity

00:49:28to the entertainment

00:49:29industry

00:49:30two of the lead

00:49:32cast members

00:49:33were sisters

00:49:33who had been

00:49:34child actors

00:49:35you have

00:49:37Camille Grammer

00:49:38who was the wife

00:49:38of Kelsey Grammer

00:49:39but Taylor

00:49:41and Russell Armstrong

00:49:42didn't seem to have

00:49:43any connection

00:49:44to the entertainment

00:49:44industry

00:49:45and it just seemed

00:49:48like they were

00:49:49a fish out of water

00:49:50but the question

00:49:51I always had was

00:49:53why didn't you

00:49:54get on the show

00:49:54Taylor was displaying

00:49:59all the trappings

00:50:00of wealth

00:50:00on the show

00:50:01all the houses

00:50:01the clothes

00:50:02the purses

00:50:02everything

00:50:03Taylor

00:50:04had a quarter million

00:50:06dollar ring

00:50:06she wears very

00:50:08expensive clothing

00:50:09I mean

00:50:09their house

00:50:10oh my god

00:50:11their house

00:50:12was enormous

00:50:12they seemed

00:50:14like they had money

00:50:15and Taylor

00:50:16threw

00:50:16a $60,000

00:50:18birthday party

00:50:19for their daughter

00:50:20come and look

00:50:21at all your

00:50:21flower arrangements

00:50:22it's hard for me

00:50:23to see Russ

00:50:24paying a $60,000

00:50:25birthday party

00:50:27for Kennedy

00:50:27that scene

00:50:30shows me

00:50:31this is a party

00:50:32for a Taylor

00:50:33not Kennedy

00:50:33what's the matter

00:50:34it's not a good day

00:50:36that episode

00:50:37her daughter

00:50:38didn't seem

00:50:38interested in it

00:50:39at all

00:50:40and it was more

00:50:40for the adults

00:50:41she's making herself

00:50:46the center of attention

00:50:46I mean

00:50:48and who gets up

00:50:48on top of the table

00:50:49and puts a hat on

00:50:50unless you're in college

00:50:52it almost was like

00:50:54too

00:50:55I mean

00:50:56not almost

00:50:56it was too much

00:50:58it's coming off

00:50:58very showy

00:51:00and not real

00:51:01in reality

00:51:03there's something

00:51:04behind the scenes

00:51:04that isn't quite

00:51:05that clean

00:51:05it is the darkest

00:51:07timeline

00:51:08that you can possibly

00:51:09enter in the

00:51:10Real Housewives

00:51:11franchise

00:51:12I think

00:51:13I used to represent

00:51:17a company

00:51:17that Russell

00:51:18was involved in

00:51:19there was a

00:51:20significant dispute

00:51:22and it ended up

00:51:24in these really

00:51:25disgruntled shareholders

00:51:27and the principal

00:51:30of the company

00:51:30knew of $3,000

00:51:32birthday parties

00:51:33for their children

00:51:35and tales of

00:51:36expensive jewelry

00:51:37and so

00:51:39we did a deep dive

00:51:41and did a lot

00:51:42of research

00:51:42including

00:51:43some research

00:51:44of Taylor

00:51:44and we decided

00:51:48that wait a minute

00:51:48this money has to be

00:51:49coming from somewhere

00:51:50we filed suit

00:51:51there were investors

00:51:54that were unhappy

00:51:55there was

00:51:56corporate problems

00:51:58investor problems

00:51:59partner problems

00:52:00I mean just

00:52:01a myriad of

00:52:02things that all

00:52:03went back

00:52:04to the same

00:52:05problem

00:52:06people see

00:52:08that you're

00:52:08using business

00:52:09money for

00:52:10lifestyle expenses

00:52:11the black car

00:52:15Taylor broke out

00:52:15the black car

00:52:16and I'm like

00:52:17what are you

00:52:18getting out of

00:52:18the show

00:52:19and then it's like

00:52:19well Taylor

00:52:20likes the show

00:52:21becoming famous

00:52:23she became

00:52:24the epitome

00:52:25of what

00:52:26you don't want

00:52:27your spouse

00:52:28to become

00:52:28if Taylor

00:52:32hadn't become

00:52:32involved

00:52:33in Housewives

00:52:34this wouldn't

00:52:35have been a

00:52:36problem

00:52:36people have

00:52:41a lot of

00:52:41questions about

00:52:42me

00:52:42the majority

00:52:44of people

00:52:45don't know

00:52:45the true story

00:52:46this is Taylor

00:52:48Armstrong

00:52:48comment

00:52:49six part

00:52:49I feel like I

00:52:58have to explain a

00:52:59lot about the

00:53:00Russell stuff

00:53:00about my life

00:53:02about how did I

00:53:04get here

00:53:04my earliest

00:53:09childhood memory

00:53:10it's surrounded

00:53:11in trauma

00:53:12because I had

00:53:14domestic violence

00:53:15in my house

00:53:16as a child

00:53:17at a very

00:53:17young age

00:53:18before I was

00:53:19Taylor Armstrong

00:53:20my birth name

00:53:21was Shanna

00:53:21Hughes

00:53:21and every time

00:53:24I would hear

00:53:25that name

00:53:25it would remind

00:53:26me of that

00:53:26part of my life

00:53:27so I started

00:53:28going by Shanna

00:53:28Taylor

00:53:29which was my

00:53:30stepfather's name

00:53:31and then I moved

00:53:33Taylor as my

00:53:33first name

00:53:33and then I got

00:53:35Ford from Tom Ford

00:53:36he's my favorite

00:53:37designer

00:53:38I went to run

00:53:40this textile company

00:53:41in LA

00:53:41and I first

00:53:43met Russell

00:53:43Armstrong

00:53:44at the Four Seasons

00:53:45Hotel in Beverly

00:53:46Hills

00:53:46I was waiting

00:53:48for a friend

00:53:49to have dinner

00:53:50and he came

00:53:51in with a

00:53:52large group

00:53:53and eventually

00:53:55he and I

00:53:56started talking

00:53:56he was kind

00:53:59of like the

00:53:59life of the

00:54:00party

00:54:00you know

00:54:01had a sarcastic

00:54:02personality

00:54:03but would never

00:54:04let on that

00:54:05he really liked

00:54:06me

00:54:06he had two

00:54:08children

00:54:08from previous

00:54:10relationships

00:54:11he's from

00:54:12Texas

00:54:13I saw some

00:54:14of that

00:54:15southern gentleman

00:54:16thing happening

00:54:16on our first

00:54:18date

00:54:18going out

00:54:19into the

00:54:20driveway

00:54:20and he came

00:54:21around and

00:54:22opened my

00:54:22door

00:54:22and I thought

00:54:23that's kind

00:54:24of uncommon

00:54:24in LA

00:54:24my relationship

00:54:28with Russell

00:54:29was a whirlwind

00:54:30and I think

00:54:31I moved in

00:54:32with him

00:54:32within a couple

00:54:34of months

00:54:34of us first

00:54:35starting to date

00:54:36Russell always

00:54:38spent whatever

00:54:39I never saw

00:54:40him even

00:54:40flinch

00:54:41over money

00:54:41whatsoever

00:54:42I don't

00:54:43remember ever

00:54:44even cooking

00:54:45once in our

00:54:46house

00:54:46we went out

00:54:48every single

00:54:49night

00:54:49and then

00:54:50that same

00:54:52year

00:54:52we got married

00:54:53in Cabo

00:54:53but I don't

00:54:55remember him

00:54:55asking me to

00:54:55marry him

00:54:56that's really

00:54:56interesting

00:54:57I was pregnant

00:55:00when we got

00:55:01married

00:55:01the fact that

00:55:03he was a

00:55:04dad

00:55:04perhaps

00:55:05gave me

00:55:07confidence

00:55:09in the kind

00:55:10of person

00:55:10that I thought

00:55:11he was

00:55:11at the core

00:55:12because he

00:55:13stuck around

00:55:14with his kids

00:55:14and my dad

00:55:16didn't

00:55:16it felt right

00:55:18at the time

00:55:19although in

00:55:20retrospect

00:55:20there were all

00:55:21kinds of red flags

00:55:23we were living

00:55:25in Bel Air

00:55:26and people that

00:55:27I knew were

00:55:27going to the

00:55:28casting for the

00:55:29Real Housewives

00:55:29they were going

00:55:30in for interviews

00:55:31and my name

00:55:32had come up

00:55:33in a few

00:55:34people's interviews

00:55:34and someone

00:55:35reached out to me

00:55:36and I thought

00:55:36that well this

00:55:37sounds exciting

00:55:39and fun

00:55:39and interesting

00:55:40and Russell

00:55:43I think he was

00:55:44really excited

00:55:45because he loved

00:55:45the spotlight

00:55:46he liked to be

00:55:47the center of

00:55:48attention

00:55:48I wasn't working

00:55:50at the time

00:55:51so I thought

00:55:52it would be

00:55:53an adventure

00:55:54when you bring

00:55:55cameras into your

00:55:56lives and

00:55:57your families

00:55:58you open yourself

00:55:59to a lot

00:56:00I want to show

00:56:01you right now

00:56:01exactly what

00:56:02is involved

00:56:03in my ability

00:56:04to come to you

00:56:05and speak to you

00:56:06there's a camera

00:56:07operator here

00:56:08there's a producer

00:56:09inside the camera

00:56:10there's another

00:56:11producer out

00:56:12over here

00:56:13there's a whole

00:56:14set up here

00:56:15in order to

00:56:16bring this to you

00:56:16and imagine

00:56:18this is what's

00:56:18following you around

00:56:19in your home

00:56:20during your most

00:56:21intense moments

00:56:22in your relationship

00:56:23when people have

00:56:25asked my wife

00:56:26and I to

00:56:26bring cameras in

00:56:27and we're like

00:56:27really we're going

00:56:28to sacrifice our

00:56:29marriage

00:56:29do you want to do

00:56:30just think

00:56:31how many

00:56:32romantic relationships

00:56:33survive reality

00:56:35cameras

00:56:36there are very few

00:56:37I think people

00:56:40that are cast

00:56:41on the housewife

00:56:42show and take it

00:56:42on aren't really

00:56:43the best with

00:56:44their family life

00:56:44or they're not

00:56:45that happy

00:56:45why would they

00:56:46do it

00:56:46why would you

00:56:47expose your

00:56:47families

00:56:48the normal life

00:56:49it's ups and

00:56:50downs

00:56:50there's good

00:56:50there's bad

00:56:51there's ugly

00:56:51you want everyone

00:56:53to see it

00:56:53I think it's

00:56:56sometime a cry

00:56:57for help

00:56:57this is me

00:57:02in a scene

00:57:02from Real Housewives

00:57:03of Beverly Hills

00:57:04you guys all look

00:57:05so handsome

00:57:06the 20s are working

00:57:07we're getting more

00:57:08cheap than your

00:57:08husband

00:57:09I knew that

00:57:10looked far too

00:57:11well

00:57:11there's that little

00:57:12tiny bit of

00:57:13jealousy

00:57:13the majority of

00:57:16people were not

00:57:17very aware of what

00:57:18was going on

00:57:18behind the scenes

00:57:19so this is

00:57:24part of the

00:57:26control and

00:57:26surveillance

00:57:27in relationship

00:57:28with Russell

00:57:29so I was working

00:57:32in my office

00:57:33in the house

00:57:33and my printer

00:57:35had stopped

00:57:36and I climbed

00:57:37under my desk

00:57:38to unplug the

00:57:38printer

00:57:39and I looked up

00:57:40and this was

00:57:42hanging by this

00:57:44underneath my desk

00:57:46of course I was

00:57:48puzzled for a minute

00:57:49and took it out

00:57:50and started to

00:57:51listen to it

00:57:51and it was me

00:57:52just being recorded

00:57:55and my housekeepers

00:57:57would find recording

00:57:58devices all the time

00:57:59it got to the point

00:58:00where I just assumed

00:58:01I was being recorded

00:58:02all the time

00:58:02in the car

00:58:03talking to my friends

00:58:05you know I just

00:58:08always assumed

00:58:09he was listening

00:58:09well once his

00:58:14boys were visiting us

00:58:15and I had made

00:58:17them a pizza

00:58:17he came in the house

00:58:21grabbed me

00:58:23by the throat

00:58:24and put me up

00:58:25against the wall

00:58:26he said

00:58:28if you ever

00:58:29serve my kids

00:58:30a pizza

00:58:30without a vegetable

00:58:31again

00:58:32I'll kill you

00:58:34it's a really hard

00:58:37question

00:58:38when I hear

00:58:39people ask

00:58:39why did you stay

00:58:40because it's so

00:58:41complicated

00:58:42statistically

00:58:44most domestic

00:58:45violence

00:58:46victims

00:58:47return

00:58:48seven times

00:58:49before they finally

00:58:50find the courage

00:58:51to leave

00:58:51I questioned myself

00:58:52a lot

00:58:53thinking

00:58:53am I being abused

00:58:55because I would

00:58:58think to myself

00:58:58I really do have

00:59:00it all

00:59:00I have the life

00:59:01that I thought

00:59:01I always wanted

00:59:02I'm on a television

00:59:04show

00:59:04I have a nanny

00:59:06a house

00:59:07lots of friends

00:59:08a husband

00:59:09my daughter

00:59:10has a father

00:59:10and she goes

00:59:11to private school

00:59:12and so

00:59:13how can I really say

00:59:14oh I'm abused

00:59:15I'm a victim

00:59:16you know

00:59:16it just felt

00:59:17cringy

00:59:18to even think

00:59:19like that

00:59:19as a viewer

00:59:20we could kind of

00:59:22sense something

00:59:23was off

00:59:23but you just

00:59:24didn't know

00:59:24what it was

00:59:25I remember

00:59:28a very specific

00:59:29limo scene

00:59:29with Russell

00:59:30and we had

00:59:31the cameras on

00:59:32and

00:59:33I was afraid

00:59:36that he was

00:59:36going to explode

00:59:37in the car

00:59:37because I could

00:59:38see it

00:59:39I could tell

00:59:41when he was

00:59:41about to boil over

00:59:42and I could just

00:59:43tell

00:59:44he would start

00:59:44to give me

00:59:45this look

00:59:45and I thought

00:59:46oh no

00:59:47this is going

00:59:47to happen

00:59:48and we were

00:59:48in a limo

00:59:50with cameras

00:59:50everywhere

00:59:51and we were

00:59:52pretty close

00:59:52to home

00:59:53and I was

00:59:53thinking

00:59:53just let us

00:59:54get home

00:59:55before this

00:59:55happens

00:59:56because he

00:59:56could not

00:59:56control himself

00:59:57Russell and I

00:59:59never discussed

01:00:01money

01:00:01in the beginning

01:00:02I would have

01:00:03to go to the

01:00:03garment district

01:00:04all the time

01:00:04in LA

01:00:05for my company

01:00:05and he didn't

01:00:06like that

01:00:06and he would

01:00:07say that's

01:00:07not safe

01:00:08but he turned

01:00:09it into

01:00:09I don't want

01:00:10you to have

01:00:10to work

01:00:11I want to

01:00:11take care

01:00:11of you

01:00:12all of that

01:00:13in the beginning

01:00:13sounded very much

01:00:15like Prince Charming

01:00:16is here

01:00:17and it was very easy

01:00:20to buy into the fact

01:00:22that this was about

01:00:23to be a fairy tale

01:00:24of course I'm a blackguard

01:00:25I had a black American Express

01:00:27I could spend

01:00:28whatever I wanted

01:00:28so we had like

01:00:31the iconic tea party

01:00:32in season one

01:00:33when Kennedy turned four

01:00:34he gave me no access

01:00:36to cash

01:00:36I had no access

01:00:37to bank accounts

01:00:38so the financial control

01:00:41became a huge part

01:00:42of my not being able

01:00:43to leave

01:00:44probably season one

01:00:47Russell would threaten me

01:00:48and say

01:00:49okay well if you leave

01:00:51you'll have no money

01:00:52Kennedy will no longer

01:00:53have a nanny

01:00:53she won't go to

01:00:54private school

01:00:55you'll have no place

01:00:56to live

01:00:57I'll drag you

01:00:57through the court system

01:00:58until I completely

01:01:00bankrupt you

01:01:01and your family

01:01:01and then I'll take

01:01:02Kennedy from you

01:01:03because you'll be

01:01:04declared an unfit mother

01:01:05because you'll have

01:01:05no money

01:01:06and no resources

01:01:06to take care of her

01:01:07at a party

01:01:10with a friend of mine

01:01:11I was over at her house

01:01:12she and her fiance

01:01:14were getting ready

01:01:14to get married in Vegas

01:01:15and we were in her backyard

01:01:17on by the pool

01:01:18and Russell he left

01:01:21and they knew

01:01:22this this couple

01:01:23was very close to me

01:01:24and they were very aware

01:01:26of what was going on

01:01:27and the fiance

01:01:30the man said

01:01:31we'll help you

01:01:32get out of this

01:01:33because this is

01:01:34not okay

01:01:34and we're really

01:01:36worried for you

01:01:36well Russell was hiding

01:01:39around the side

01:01:40of the house

01:01:41and heard everything

01:01:43he didn't actually

01:01:44leave

01:01:44and he came flying

01:01:47into the backyard

01:01:47he threw me

01:01:49in the pool

01:01:50he grabbed

01:01:51the fiance

01:01:52the man

01:01:53knocked all of

01:01:54his teeth out

01:01:55and he jumped

01:01:56in the pool

01:01:57and was trying

01:01:57to hold me

01:01:58under the water

01:01:58and I thought

01:02:00he was going

01:02:00to drown me

01:02:01what always stood

01:02:07out for me

01:02:08on Taylor

01:02:09is that there

01:02:09was hints

01:02:10of domestic violence

01:02:12and it was my sense

01:02:15that that made her

01:02:16appear superficial

01:02:18and somewhat robotic

01:02:19and shut down

01:02:21but people missed

01:02:22that part

01:02:23and actually participated

01:02:24in the abuse

01:02:25both other housewives

01:02:26and the public

01:02:27Beverly Hills

01:02:31word travels fast

01:02:32you know

01:02:33Beverly Hills

01:02:33is a small town

01:02:34and it was pretty

01:02:35well known

01:02:36that I had

01:02:37marital problems

01:02:37but I wasn't ready

01:02:39for my abuse

01:02:41to be outed

01:02:42on television

01:02:43in season one

01:02:46of Beverly Hills

01:02:47Camille said

01:02:48because we don't say

01:02:49that he hits you

01:02:51we don't say

01:02:52he broke your jaw

01:02:54and I remember

01:02:57looking at my producer

01:02:59across the room

01:03:00in just like

01:03:02a blank stare

01:03:02thinking

01:03:03oh no

01:03:04like it's out

01:03:05and I can't

01:03:07put this back

01:03:08Camille had outed

01:03:11the fact

01:03:11that I was being abused

01:03:13and I was saying

01:03:14you have no idea

01:03:16what you've done

01:03:16to me

01:03:16that he's threatened

01:03:18to kill me before

01:03:19and I don't know

01:03:20what's going to happen

01:03:21but something big

01:03:23is going to happen

01:03:23one way or another

01:03:24before the episode

01:03:33ever aired

01:03:33where Camille

01:03:34had outed

01:03:35the fact

01:03:36that I was being abused

01:03:37it's my 40th birthday

01:03:39we checked into

01:03:42the Four Seasons

01:03:43where we met

01:03:45and he gave me

01:03:47like eight pairs

01:03:48of my favorite shoes

01:03:49and a really long card

01:03:51and it was

01:03:52all about how

01:03:54he knew

01:03:54he hadn't been

01:03:54a good husband

01:03:55and that things

01:03:56were going to change

01:03:57and that today

01:03:58was going to mark

01:03:58this new beginning

01:04:00for us

01:04:00that night

01:04:02after my birthday party

01:04:03we were laying in bed

01:04:04and he

01:04:05said something

01:04:07to the effect of

01:04:08I know that you slept

01:04:09with the Chippendales

01:04:10when you were in Vegas

01:04:11I had just went

01:04:14to Vegas

01:04:15for Lisa Vanderpump's

01:04:17daughter's

01:04:18bachelorette party

01:04:19and they filmed us

01:04:20for Housewives

01:04:21and I was like

01:04:23what are you talking about

01:04:24and he just proceeded

01:04:27to push and push

01:04:28and he would not let up

01:04:30and I was just like

01:04:31please just let me

01:04:32go to sleep

01:04:33it was my birthday

01:04:34and he raised up

01:04:36leaned over like this

01:04:39punched me

01:04:41he fractured my orbital floor

01:04:49and so I went

01:04:52to see the doctor

01:04:53and Russell went with me

01:04:55and the doctor said

01:04:57what happened

01:04:58and Russell had told me

01:04:59to tell him

01:05:00that Kennedy

01:05:01kicked me in the face

01:05:03when I was pushing her

01:05:03on the swing

01:05:04and I told the doctor

01:05:07that and he goes

01:05:07were you pushing her

01:05:08from the front

01:05:09and I knew the doctor

01:05:12didn't believe

01:05:12for one minute

01:05:13what I was saying

01:05:13and then the doctor

01:05:16said well you know

01:05:16I've only seen this

01:05:17happen one other time

01:05:18and it was a police officer

01:05:20who during an arrest

01:05:21got punched in the face

01:05:22and he just let it

01:05:25lie right there

01:05:25and of course

01:05:28I couldn't say anything

01:05:29there was a moment

01:05:32she came on camera

01:05:33with a black eye

01:05:34and it just like

01:05:36it was so horrible

01:05:38everything changed

01:05:41after my eye

01:05:43it took something

01:05:45that dramatic

01:05:45for me to hear

01:05:46from a doctor

01:05:47that I had

01:05:47to have reconstructive surgery

01:05:49that I finally said

01:05:50I'm being abused

01:05:51I filed for divorce

01:05:55I had him move out

01:05:57to a friend's house

01:05:58I learned at some point

01:06:01after the lawsuit

01:06:01was filed

01:06:02that Russell

01:06:03was not staying

01:06:05with Taylor

01:06:05there was some friction

01:06:06that had boiled up

01:06:07the second season

01:06:11of the Real Housewives

01:06:12of Beverly Hills

01:06:13had already been filmed

01:06:14but before it aired

01:06:16there were also rumors

01:06:18about their relationship

01:06:19and I fear

01:06:26that being on television

01:06:28and being sort of

01:06:30publicly scrutinized

01:06:31really impacted Russell

01:06:33August of 2011

01:06:34we talked

01:06:35and he just said

01:06:36everybody's piling on

01:06:38I could feel the pressure

01:06:49he was under

01:06:49I was supposed to have

01:06:56a meeting with Russell

01:06:57at around 1

01:06:58because he was terrified

01:07:00of the legal ramifications

01:07:03of what he had done

01:07:04and my abuse being outed

01:07:06and I went to his office

01:07:07and the lights were off

01:07:09and his door was closed

01:07:10and he wasn't there

01:07:11and no one had seen him

01:07:14and so I started calling

01:07:17his phone

01:07:17over and over and over

01:07:19no answer

01:07:19and I started just

01:07:21getting a weird feeling

01:07:22it just was eating away

01:07:23at me

01:07:24and so I decided

01:07:25to go over to

01:07:26the house

01:07:26where he was staying

01:07:27and I called

01:07:30one of my friends

01:07:31whose husband

01:07:32was a championship

01:07:33kickboxer

01:07:34to go with me

01:07:35to protect me

01:07:36and we went there

01:07:39and we went up

01:07:41to the window

01:07:42and he put his fingers

01:07:44underneath there

01:07:45and just pried it open

01:07:46and it was into

01:07:48Russell's bathroom

01:07:49and there was a big

01:07:50sunken tub

01:07:51and once we got it open

01:07:53you could see him hanging

01:07:55my friend's husband

01:08:00was on the phone

01:08:01with 911

01:08:01I ran into the street

01:08:08outside the house

01:08:10and all of a sudden

01:08:22I realized

01:08:24my daughter

01:08:24and my assistant

01:08:25were in the car

01:08:26right out front

01:08:27I can't let her see

01:08:29any of this happening

01:08:31and she said

01:08:33to my assistant

01:08:34Kennedy said

01:08:35did my daddy

01:08:36do something stupid

01:08:37there were a myriad

01:08:52of things

01:08:53that he was

01:08:53very concerned about

01:08:54but I never thought

01:08:57he would kill himself

01:08:57suicide never

01:09:00crossed my mind

01:09:01today I'm going to meet

01:09:05with Taylor Armstrong

01:09:06Taylor Armstrong

01:09:07I had interviewed her

01:09:09not long after

01:09:10her husband's

01:09:11suicide

01:09:12for my HLN program

01:09:14she was clearly

01:09:18traumatized by what

01:09:19had happened

01:09:20so I was gentle

01:09:21I didn't really learn

01:09:22anything

01:09:23Taylor

01:09:23hi

01:09:24so good to see you

01:09:25great to see you

01:09:26so now

01:09:28I'd like to

01:09:29really get into it

01:09:30you have been

01:09:32through a lot

01:09:33my goodness

01:09:35even when I just

01:09:36say that

01:09:36I could see it

01:09:36in your eyes

01:09:37that it's

01:09:37still with you

01:09:39let's talk about it

01:09:41when did this happen

01:09:43in relation to you

01:09:44filming Housewives

01:09:45we were filming

01:09:46so we were

01:09:47right toward the end

01:09:48of the season

01:09:49and had you

01:09:50finished filming

01:09:50we had not

01:09:52did this all

01:09:53happen in front of cameras

01:09:54I had to not film

01:09:56because I had the eye

01:09:57surgery

01:09:57and then after

01:09:59I had the surgery

01:10:00we filmed the finale

01:10:01and everyone was

01:10:03very aware

01:10:04of what had happened

01:10:05it was also one

01:10:05of the first times

01:10:06there had been

01:10:06a serious consequence

01:10:07on a reality program

01:10:09is there anything

01:10:10about being

01:10:10something in front

01:10:11of reality cameras

01:10:12that makes this

01:10:13kind of thing

01:10:14apt to happen

01:10:15or is it unrelated

01:10:16I question that

01:10:17as well

01:10:18people have asked me

01:10:20why would you do

01:10:21a reality show

01:10:22when you know

01:10:23that you have abuse

01:10:24going on in your life

01:10:25and I've reflected

01:10:26on that

01:10:26and at the time

01:10:28I didn't consciously

01:10:29think about it

01:10:30but maybe in a way

01:10:32I felt like

01:10:32if the cameras

01:10:33were there

01:10:34I was going to get

01:10:35the good version

01:10:35of him

01:10:36definitely there's a

01:10:39component of

01:10:40questioning yourself

01:10:41whether you're being

01:10:42abused or not

01:10:43because he would

01:10:44convince me

01:10:44that it was my fault

01:10:45but also that

01:10:46the way he would

01:10:47just come out

01:10:48of left field

01:10:49with things

01:10:49and accuse me

01:10:50of things

01:10:51that were so

01:10:52unbelievable

01:10:52that had no basis

01:10:54in fact

01:10:55was so confusing

01:10:57to me

01:10:57and I still look

01:10:58back at moments

01:10:59and think

01:10:59where did he ever

01:11:00come up with that

01:11:01was a lot of his

01:11:02gaslighting about

01:11:03cheating

01:11:03yes

01:11:04or about relationships

01:11:06prior to him

01:11:06well to that point

01:11:09you said he was

01:11:10in the office

01:11:10all the time

01:11:11so did you think

01:11:12or do you wonder

01:11:13now was he cheating

01:11:14yeah I never really

01:11:15thought about that

01:11:16about him having

01:11:19another relationship

01:11:19I wanted so badly

01:11:22for Kennedy

01:11:22to have a dad

01:11:23and a family

01:11:25and to have

01:11:27a picture perfect

01:11:28life

01:11:28and that was part

01:11:30of definitely

01:11:31a big part

01:11:31of the staying

01:11:32and I wish

01:11:35I would have been

01:11:36brave enough

01:11:38to leave

01:11:38for sure

01:11:39for her

01:11:42and shame

01:11:44for me not

01:11:45being stronger

01:11:46I don't see

01:11:49how anybody

01:11:49could call you

01:11:50less than strong

01:11:51you survived

01:11:53a lot

01:11:54thank you

01:11:56talk to us

01:12:00about his suicide

01:12:01I never

01:12:02would have thought

01:12:03he would have

01:12:03done something

01:12:04I just was

01:12:05he's the last person

01:12:07I ever thought

01:12:07would take his own life

01:12:08did you ever worry

01:12:11that something

01:12:12suspicious

01:12:13had happened to him

01:12:14I didn't in the beginning

01:12:17but there were

01:12:18some things

01:12:19that were

01:12:19a little suspect

01:12:20around it

01:12:21I had to hire

01:12:25a law firm

01:12:26to look for his assets

01:12:27because I had no access

01:12:29to bank accounts

01:12:29or anything

01:12:30and we had an

01:12:32offshore asset protection

01:12:33trust in the Cook Islands

01:12:34that he had told me

01:12:35had 12 million dollars

01:12:36in it

01:12:36so I hired a law firm

01:12:39to go and try to find

01:12:40the bank accounts

01:12:41and they were

01:12:42all empty

01:12:43everything was gone

01:12:44and they finally got

01:12:46into the Cook Island trust

01:12:48and that was empty too

01:12:49there ended up being

01:12:51like 30 plus

01:12:52bank accounts

01:12:53and they were all

01:12:55empty

01:12:55then something

01:12:57very strange happened

01:12:58the next day

01:13:01after the suicide

01:13:02he had

01:13:04a partner

01:13:05that he did

01:13:06business with

01:13:07and the

01:13:09wife of this gentleman

01:13:11came in

01:13:12you know

01:13:12in hysterics

01:13:13basically

01:13:13and saying

01:13:14oh my god

01:13:15you know

01:13:15she had heard

01:13:16the news

01:13:17and she said

01:13:18oh my god

01:13:18Russell Armstrong

01:13:19killed himself

01:13:19and he didn't say

01:13:21what

01:13:22or when

01:13:23where

01:13:23what

01:13:23like a normal

01:13:24that would be my reaction

01:13:26if someone told me

01:13:27someone I know

01:13:27had killed themselves

01:13:28and he didn't say

01:13:30anything like that

01:13:31and he just got up

01:13:33as he was walking away

01:13:34she said

01:13:35do you think it was the show

01:13:37and he said

01:13:38it wasn't the show

01:13:39and he left the house

01:13:43and drove to an area

01:13:46very close to where

01:13:47Russell died

01:13:48and shot himself

01:13:49in the head

01:13:49huh

01:13:52so on August 16th

01:14:042011

01:14:05Russell was found

01:14:06hanging

01:14:06that was at a friend's

01:14:09house on Mulholland Drive

01:14:10but then the next day

01:14:12Alan Schramm

01:14:13who was founder

01:14:14of a hedge fund

01:14:14also drove to

01:14:16Mulholland Drive

01:14:16and presumably

01:14:17shot himself

01:14:19outside his car

01:14:20and according to TMZ

01:14:23both of them

01:14:24were linked

01:14:24to an elite investor club

01:14:26there were so many rumors

01:14:28about whether

01:14:29Taylor's husband

01:14:30was tied

01:14:30with that death

01:14:31that's just really

01:14:34really weird

01:14:35so either

01:14:36it's something fishy

01:14:38or they really

01:14:39had something

01:14:40that buried deep

01:14:41that they were scared of

01:14:43and was there anything

01:14:50otherwise suspicious

01:14:51about this man

01:14:52the other man

01:14:54that killed himself

01:14:55no I didn't even realize

01:14:56they had that many

01:14:57dealings together

01:14:58we had had a couple

01:14:59of dinners

01:14:59with them

01:15:00but other than that

01:15:01I didn't know

01:15:02that they were that

01:15:03in partnership

01:15:04I don't know

01:15:05what would have led

01:15:06them both

01:15:07to make that decision

01:15:08or could somebody

01:15:11have done that

01:15:12to them

01:15:12set them up

01:15:13I've definitely

01:15:14thought about that

01:15:15whether it could have

01:15:16been

01:15:16you take your own life

01:15:18or we're gonna take

01:15:19the life of your family

01:15:20you're shaking even now

01:15:23thinking about it

01:15:24I just feel like

01:15:25there must have been

01:15:26more going on

01:15:27obviously behind the scenes

01:15:28than I was aware of

01:15:29I read the autopsy report

01:15:34and there were aspects

01:15:36of the suicide

01:15:36that are still strange

01:15:37no alcohol in the system

01:15:41somebody like him

01:15:43I would expect him

01:15:45to leave a letter

01:15:46but there were aspects

01:15:47that sounded like suicide

01:15:49motivation for suicide

01:15:51and I believe

01:15:52it could be a suicide

01:15:53I called the investigating officer

01:15:58just because

01:16:00his mom and sister

01:16:02and dad

01:16:03had so many questions

01:16:04and he went through

01:16:06the details

01:16:07and why

01:16:08it didn't seem

01:16:10like a murder

01:16:11I was sick about

01:16:15what happened

01:16:16to Russell

01:16:17it bothered me

01:16:18if you look

01:16:19at the time

01:16:20connection

01:16:21between

01:16:23filing of the lawsuit

01:16:25and Russell's

01:16:26passing

01:16:26you know

01:16:28you're going to see

01:16:29several weeks

01:16:29maybe 10-12 days

01:16:31that doesn't tell

01:16:33the whole story

01:16:34we effectively

01:16:39served

01:16:39Russell

01:16:42and within

01:16:4448 hours

01:16:46I'd heard he committed

01:16:47suicide

01:16:47it's hard for me

01:16:51to

01:16:51not assume

01:16:54that there's a cause

01:16:54and effect there

01:16:55is that the straw

01:16:58is that the straw

01:17:00that pushed Russell over

01:17:01I don't know

01:17:02no one will ever know

01:17:02the answer

01:17:03but certainly

01:17:04I thought about that

01:17:05you and I raised

01:17:14a lot of weird questions

01:17:14just because we have

01:17:15a lot of question marks

01:17:16over our head

01:17:17they're strictly

01:17:18speculation

01:17:19right

01:17:20we can also

01:17:21take it the other direction

01:17:23and say

01:17:24he was ashamed

01:17:27he was about

01:17:28to face fraud

01:17:29he was about

01:17:30to be publicly outed

01:17:31for being an abuser

01:17:32he was somebody

01:17:33that could easily

01:17:34commit suicide

01:17:35do you agree?

01:17:37mm-hmm

01:17:38I want you to know

01:17:40you're so much better

01:17:41than when I last

01:17:41spoke to you

01:17:42every time I see you

01:17:44you're better

01:17:44thank you

01:17:45I mean you should feel

01:17:46really good about that

01:17:47it's a lot

01:17:48so thank you so much

01:17:51congratulations

01:17:51on everything you're doing

01:17:52and it's a pleasure

01:17:54to see you

01:17:54good to see you

01:17:55and pleasure to see

01:17:55you doing so well

01:17:56thank you so much

01:17:57so the second season

01:18:01of the Real Housewives

01:18:03of Beverly Hills

01:18:04had already been filmed

01:18:05at the time of

01:18:05Russell's death

01:18:06people wondered

01:18:09were they actually

01:18:09going to show

01:18:10the build up

01:18:12and the suicide

01:18:12on the television program

01:18:14I think they wisely

01:18:17elected not to do that

01:18:19but they did certainly

01:18:20document or follow

01:18:22the housewives

01:18:22in the aftermath

01:18:23of the suicide

01:18:24I never saw

01:18:26any sign of it

01:18:27I thought that they

01:18:28handled it

01:18:29very gracefully

01:18:30but also

01:18:31kind of crazy

01:18:33that like a producer

01:18:35probably was like

01:18:36okay girls

01:18:37we're going to get together

01:18:38and we're going to

01:18:39talk about suicide

01:18:39that just like

01:18:40felt just

01:18:42really

01:18:43not icky

01:18:44but it just was like

01:18:45very strange

01:18:46and Taylor still

01:18:49you know

01:18:49was on the show

01:18:50picking up

01:18:51this mess

01:18:52that was left

01:18:54it was only

01:18:55in the years after

01:18:56that we really learned

01:18:57more about

01:18:58what Russell was doing

01:19:00to the people

01:19:01that had been

01:19:03in his life

01:19:03and had worked with him

01:19:04I think this was really

01:19:06kind of the first time

01:19:07that you saw

01:19:08a story of this kind

01:19:09play out on a show

01:19:11and I think also

01:19:12the fact that

01:19:13happened in the most

01:19:14unexpected place

01:19:15you don't believe

01:19:18that bad things

01:19:19can happen

01:19:19to beautiful

01:19:20wealthy people

01:19:21as the housewives

01:19:25franchises move along

01:19:26we've seen

01:19:27table flips

01:19:28we've seen hair pulling

01:19:29we've seen

01:19:30domestic abuse

01:19:32we've seen

01:19:33a surprising number

01:19:34of these women

01:19:34have been involved

01:19:36in illegal activity

01:19:37you have to wonder

01:19:39why they end up

01:19:40selecting people

01:19:41who were prone

01:19:41to criminality

01:19:42but there is

01:19:43sort of an understanding

01:19:45that the fans

01:19:46were demanding it

01:19:46but not directly

01:19:48saying it

01:19:48when the Orange County

01:19:52Housewives

01:19:53the first franchise

01:19:54of the Housewife

01:19:55franchise showed up

01:19:56it was really

01:19:57about women with money

01:19:58it wasn't drama

01:19:59then it changed

01:20:00and really the conceit

01:20:03it was

01:20:04well look

01:20:04their relationships

01:20:05aren't great

01:20:06they have lots

01:20:06of money

01:20:06but they're really

01:20:07not that happy

01:20:07as there was

01:20:09more and more

01:20:09conflict

01:20:10more and more

01:20:11drama

01:20:11you see the ratings

01:20:13start to increase

01:20:14oh just

01:20:15chills

01:20:17water cooler

01:20:18sensation

01:20:18they say

01:20:18right

01:20:19it's all I talk

01:20:19about

01:20:19Jane Girardi

01:20:20is about to be sued

01:20:21for racketeering you guys

01:20:23that this is

01:20:23and if a housewife

01:20:25has a criminal background

01:20:26for a real housewife

01:20:27producer

01:20:27they're probably thinking

01:20:28this is someone

01:20:29who has lived

01:20:29quite a life

01:20:30and ultimately

01:20:31that's what people

01:20:32want to watch

01:20:32I quit the show

01:20:39after five seasons

01:20:40and I've had enough

01:20:42my kids are over it

01:20:43it was starting

01:20:45to affect them

01:20:46in school

01:20:47and I was done

01:20:48I wanted it to be

01:20:50a learning show

01:20:51you know

01:20:51teach people something

01:20:53because you know

01:20:54we were all

01:20:54very successful

01:20:55I didn't want it

01:20:56to be about drunks

01:20:58falling and chipping

01:20:59and breaking their teeth

01:21:01I was on for two seasons

01:21:05when I was going through

01:21:06when my girl's dad died

01:21:08I'm like

01:21:08well I can't film

01:21:09so I mean

01:21:10it was a choice

01:21:10I made for my girls

01:21:11but let me tell you

01:21:13most people

01:21:13that do these shows

01:21:14they're not happy

01:21:15there's a reason

01:21:16they're doing it

01:21:16because they're missing

01:21:17something too

01:21:17what do you think

01:21:20that the production company

01:21:22or network

01:21:22gravitated towards you

01:21:23I think that

01:21:26there were rumblings

01:21:29going through the casting

01:21:31about my marriage

01:21:32and that that

01:21:33was probably attractive

01:21:34for the drama

01:21:36after the suicide

01:21:39I did another season

01:21:40and I had to get away

01:21:42so I went to

01:21:44Vail Colorado

01:21:45and I put Kennedy

01:21:46in a little school

01:21:47where nobody really knew us

01:21:48and I just spent time

01:21:50trying to get back

01:21:51to some form of sanity

01:21:52in the mountains

01:21:54it's normal in television production

01:21:58to always be concerned

01:22:00with how do we outdo

01:22:01ourselves next season

01:22:02the question in a housewives franchise

01:22:05is what does that mean

01:22:07did any of this happen

01:22:08while the show was aired

01:22:09and I think viewers

01:22:10and the producers

01:22:11are always trying to figure out

01:22:12where that line is

01:22:13I'm not guilty

01:22:14of any of these

01:22:15what could possibly be bigger

01:22:17that's not also

01:22:18terribly dangerous

01:22:20and destructive

01:22:21and my fundamental response

01:22:25to anyone out there

01:22:27that thinks drama

01:22:28is a good idea

01:22:29so do you love me

01:22:31or hate me?

01:22:32be careful what you wish for

01:22:33the Von Eriks were gods

01:22:48they are just the blueprint

01:22:50of what wrestling should be

01:22:52but with that came tragedy

01:22:55the movie says it's inspired

01:22:56by a true story

01:22:57but it is not the full story

01:23:00the whole story

01:23:03that I tell the story

01:23:05that I have brought

01:23:06whenever they're in

01:23:07and if she is the sûr

01:23:08of the Holy Spirit

01:23:09...

01:23:12.

01:23:13May it be new

01:23:16from the start

01:23:18that we forget

01:23:19to let everyone know

01:23:20how far

01:23:23that Priest

01:23:24or no

01:23:24what

01:23:25that

01:23:26is

01:23:26that

01:23:27that

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