On this episode of the Forbes Top Creators Show, assistant managing editor Steven Bertoni sits down with @rebeccazamolo to hear about how she was able to translate early success on Musical.ly a YouTube empire, and how she's leveraging her influence to launch new line of prenatal supplements.
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0:00 Introduction
1:00 Transition from Traditional Media Aspirations to Becoming the "Network"
8:00 Strategic Use of Multiple Social Media Platforms
15:00 Finding Purpose and a New Career Path Through Personal Challenges:
22:02 Early Strategies for YouTube Growth
30:00 Pivoting Content to Align with Audience Demographics and Values
32:00 The Power of Daily Vlogging for Audience Connection
38:00 Building a Multi-faceted Business
40:00 Advice for Aspiring Creators
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Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1
0:00 Introduction
1:00 Transition from Traditional Media Aspirations to Becoming the "Network"
8:00 Strategic Use of Multiple Social Media Platforms
15:00 Finding Purpose and a New Career Path Through Personal Challenges:
22:02 Early Strategies for YouTube Growth
30:00 Pivoting Content to Align with Audience Demographics and Values
32:00 The Power of Daily Vlogging for Audience Connection
38:00 Building a Multi-faceted Business
40:00 Advice for Aspiring Creators
Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:
https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript
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More From Forbes: http://forbes.com
Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00I used to say I wanted to be a star on a network show, and now I am the network.
00:09Welcome to the Top Creators Show. I'm Steve Bertone, here with Rebecca Zamolo. Thanks for joining us.
00:15Thank you for having me, Steve.
00:16Now, Rebecca, you are like a triple threat on social media.
00:21Because you have 18 million followers or subscribers on YouTube, super long form.
00:27And then you have 18 million followers on TikTok, super short form. I love that. That's very cool.
00:32Yeah, I actually started on TikTok, which was Musical.ly at the time.
00:37And I was the only adult on the platform, but I saw an opportunity to move an audience over to YouTube.
00:45And so I committed to doing six Musical.lys a day for two years, and I moved my audience over to YouTube.
00:53It was back before there was like an algorithm.
00:55What were you doing on Musical.ly?
00:58It was, back then, it was a little bit of lip syncing, but it was mostly sketches, comedy.
01:04Very similar to what TikTok is now, actually.
01:07Like, a lot of it is funny because the trends then are like coming back, but it's cool to do it now.
01:13It wasn't as cool then for adults, but now adults are doing those trends, and it's very bizarre.
01:18Very cool. Take me back. Like, how did you start this creator, your creator career?
01:23Yeah, well, I started my creator career when I got married. I found out I had to have my colon removed.
01:31I had suffered with ulcerative colitis for eight years, and I had to wear an ostomy bag.
01:36Oh, jeez. Okay.
01:36And I had been...
01:37That's interesting content.
01:38Yeah, it was interesting, but I wasn't a creator.
01:41Okay.
01:41I was an actress, and you can't really have an ostomy bag when you're doing sports commercials or you're trying to be the lead of a show.
01:50So, I thought with YouTube, I could film from the waist up while I was going through all my surgeries, and I soon realized I liked being my own boss.
01:59So, I started producing for other creators while I was growing my own YouTube channel, and YouTube became a much better fit for me.
02:06I liked knowing all aspects of everything, where we are now, and I liked being in control of my own storytelling.
02:15What year was this?
02:16This was 2015.
02:18Okay, gotcha.
02:19So, it was early on.
02:20Yes.
02:20Ten years.
02:21Yeah.
02:21What sort of things were you doing as an actress before that?
02:24Before that, I had a sports agent.
02:26I was a collegiate runner, and I was...
02:30Where'd you go?
02:30I went to UC Santa Barbara.
02:32Oh, nice.
02:32Very cool.
02:32Yeah, it was great.
02:34I had such a great experience there.
02:35Yeah, I don't know how anyone studies there.
02:36It's too beautiful and on the beach.
02:38Go Gauchos!
02:39I'm just saying.
02:40If I went there, I would have failed out in like five seconds, but...
02:42Yeah.
02:43But you were a student athlete.
02:44That's amazing.
02:44Yeah, we like to think that UCSB is a good blend of being academically smart, but also
02:51social.
02:52Yeah.
02:52And we're able to balance it.
02:54So, that was fun.
02:55And then I was also...
02:56I grew up as a level 10 gymnast.
02:58Oh, okay.
02:59Fair.
02:59So, I used that, and I had a sports agent down here, and I did national commercials, and
03:05I was just...
03:05I was going out for shows during pilot season.
03:09And that's where I landed.
03:11Very cool.
03:12And what was your early YouTube like?
03:16My early YouTube, I was producing for other people, so I was kind of figuring it out.
03:21I started with just wedding content, because I had just gone married, and I was like, this
03:26is my niche.
03:27I'm just going to stick to that.
03:28And then very quickly on, I was like, okay, I think I've done pretty much every video.
03:34It was like, how to pick your bridesmaids, wedding songs, like, you name it, wedding.
03:40And I was in that mode, if you've gotten married, you know...
03:43Yes, the whole video playbook.
03:44Yes.
03:44Okay.
03:45And then it was like, okay, well, I don't think I want to do this forever.
03:49But what happened is our flash mob that we did at our wedding went viral.
03:55And we were at our honeymoon, and people started texting me, and I was like, what?
04:01And I was not even a creator.
04:03I just posted my wedding content.
04:04And so that was kind of the spark that got me into the wedding content.
04:10What was the flash mob?
04:12So we choreographed it to Kesha's Timber.
04:15Okay.
04:16And so we had people choreographed...
04:18You're taking me down to 2015.
04:19Yeah.
04:20I'm going right back into it.
04:21Yeah, it's going down.
04:22Yeah, that was it.
04:24We had someone choreograph it for us, and then we had rehearsals in Northern California,
04:29where my family is, in Southern California.
04:32We had Zoom.
04:33I mean, it was a whole thing.
04:35The bridesmaids, the groomsmen, our parents, like everyone was in it.
04:41And it was so much fun.
04:42And so, yeah, it was like a production, essentially.
04:45And were you doing that for your wedding, for your guests?
04:48Were you doing it to go viral?
04:50What was the kind of motivation?
04:52I mean, I was creating content, but I didn't think it would go viral.
04:56I didn't really understand what viral was.
04:59But I did see viral wedding flash mobs, and I was like, I want that at my wedding.
05:04I just thought it would be so much fun.
05:07And what happened after that?
05:08So it goes viral, and was it like a light bulb effect saying, wow, I could start doing more different kinds of things here on this platform?
05:16Well, it was perfect timing because that is when I got told that I had to have my colon removed.
05:22Oh, then it was, okay.
05:23It was right when I got back.
05:24And so that was really what sparked it.
05:26And I was like, well, if I can get this many views, I could do this.
05:31I could build it out.
05:32But I very quickly learned that just because you have a viral video does not mean that people care about you.
05:39And that's a very different thing having a viral video versus building a community.
05:44And I know your husband is also a creator.
05:46Yeah.
05:46Was he doing this at the time when you guys got married or something totally different?
05:50Not at all.
05:51He was in the hotel business.
05:52Gotcha.
05:53So very different.
05:53Very different.
05:55But he was learning to edit in his free time too.
05:58So we were kind of, I would film, and then he would edit.
06:01He was a much better editor than me.
06:03And we kind of built this up together.
06:06And when you decided, like, okay, I want to lean into YouTube, like you said, you had your medical issues.
06:11You had your viral video.
06:13It all came together.
06:14Yeah.
06:14And you're getting into it.
06:15What did you start doing?
06:16Like, what were the early days?
06:19The early days were producing and making my own content.
06:23I would study trends.
06:25I would see what was going big on YouTube at the time.
06:27And then what I would do is I would reach out to bigger creators.
06:31And I knew I was a great producer.
06:34And I would say, I will produce you a viral video because I knew I could do that.
06:39And I will do everything.
06:41And all you have to do is do a video with me on my channel.
06:43And that's how it started.
06:45I worked for free.
06:46I just made sure that it was a great experience for them.
06:50And, you know, I think they were impressed because, I mean, this is 2015.
06:54People didn't really have teams at the time.
06:56So for someone to come in and just, like, you just show up was, like, unheard of.
07:01And so it made it very easy for me to kind of work my way up and gain the respect of other creators.
07:07Well, if I was, like, a famous creator at the time you wanted to work with and you came in as a producer, what would you do for me?
07:12Like, what was the Rebecca package?
07:14I would say, like, Steve, I have this, like, great idea for you.
07:19It's a viral video.
07:20You do it with Forbes.
07:21I promise you, you will go viral.
07:23I will do all of it.
07:25I will pitch.
07:26And I would come up with a concept.
07:27Deal.
07:28I'll take it right now.
07:28Yeah.
07:28And then I would say, but, like, can you do a video with me on my channel?
07:33I'm trying to grow my channel.
07:34I want to be a full-time YouTuber.
07:36And that's all you would have to do.
07:37Wow.
07:38So you just, like, you know, I'll do this for you.
07:40You do this for me.
07:41Yeah.
07:41And when did, for you, being a creator and being in front of the camera, when did that start kind of taking off?
07:49Really when it took off was after I had been producing for a couple years, I went on to Musical.ly.
07:55And none of the YouTube creators at the time wanted to go on Musical.ly.
07:59They're like, I have my YouTube thing.
08:00But I saw that as such a big opportunity with new audience.
08:03And at the time on YouTube, it was very hard to break in if you were a new creator.
08:08It's easier now, but at the time, it was very difficult.
08:11You can't compete against someone with 2 to 10 million subscribers.
08:16And so I brought over a new audience, which made me grow very fast.
08:21And so by the 2017, I stopped producing.
08:26I went full-time on my own channel with, like, 300,000 subscribers.
08:30I convinced my husband to leave the hotel business, and I hit a million within, I think, three or four months after that.
08:37That's incredible.
08:38How did everyone – I want to talk about Musical.ly and bringing your audience over.
08:42Because I know a lot of people, like, the rule of thumb – I'm being very general here.
08:45But it's like you use TikTok to get famous, and then you bring your audience over to Instagram and YouTube to start making money.
08:53That's, like, again, very loose rule of thumb.
08:56How did you bring your audience over to YouTube so successfully?
09:00Well, it was different on Musical.ly because there was no algorithm.
09:03So the more you posted, as you became bigger, it became easier because people just saw your content as you posted it.
09:12Whereas now with an algorithm, they don't see it.
09:14It's got to be quality.
09:15There's different rules.
09:17But what I did is I committed to six a day.
09:21There was a leaderboard back then.
09:23If I wanted to be number one, I did seven.
09:27I knew exactly how many I needed to do a day to stay in the top ten.
09:30How did you figure this out?
09:31I mean, it was easy because it was all based off likes.
09:34So I would just calculate if there was a bigger creator.
09:37If they did one and they got 500,000 likes, I could do two and get 600.
09:45And so I just calculated it out.
09:47I was also the only adult.
09:49So these are all just kids having fun.
09:51And I was like, okay, I can't be too cringy and get number one every time because no one wants to see an adult on top.
09:57But I need to hit it at least once a week.
09:59But I always need to be in the top ten because that's how those are where companies are looking to.
10:05And as far as moving audience over, I just gave them a ton of content.
10:10So for every six videos, one of them was pushing people over.
10:15So it didn't constantly feel like a sales pitch.
10:18It's like I've given you five videos today.
10:20One of them is telling you about my new video, but the others are not.
10:24So it didn't feel to the audience that it was inorganic.
10:28What was a day in the life like back then when you're doing seven videos?
10:30Like how would you come up with the ideas, all the shooting, recording?
10:34I mean, that's a full sprint right there.
10:36It was a sprint.
10:37So back then they had hashtags, and I committed to doing every single hashtag.
10:43I did not not do a hashtag unless it was something that I felt was inappropriate for my audience or not on brand.
10:51Other than that, I did every single hashtag.
10:54Like you name it, I did it.
10:56Yeah.
10:56Didn't matter how bad it was.
10:58I didn't care.
10:59There was like I'm going to do it.
11:01I'm going to be on every single one.
11:02What's like one crazy hashtag you remember doing?
11:04Oh, I mean, they were all – a lot were very terrible.
11:08It was like crazy hat day.
11:11And so you have to do a TikTok with hats.
11:12It would be like one hat, two hats.
11:14I'd stack hats.
11:15I would do any of them.
11:17I didn't care.
11:19And then when you started moving into YouTube, again, in front of the camera, building up that million subscriber audience.
11:25Yeah.
11:26Was that – when did that become like a full-time job or like did that start paying the bills right away?
11:31At 300,000 subscribers, I felt comfortable enough to make Matt quit his job or to get him to quit his job.
11:41But – so I was making money there.
11:44It's just when you're that new, you don't know if it's sustainable.
11:48You don't know how long you can do it.
11:49So there was always that fear, but I've never been motivated by money and I've always been fearless in the sense that I don't really care if I lose it all.
12:00So like I – I mean now I have a daughter and there's like different things at stake.
12:04But back then I didn't need much to live on.
12:07I knew if I had a – if I could film, I would be working.
12:10So I never had a fear of like if it doesn't.
12:13I always thought I would figure it out.
12:16And early on, I know you said you started doing – with wedding videos, you ended with that.
12:20What did you start – how did you start finding your voice and kind of finding the content you do now with like the games, the skits, the pranks?
12:27Yeah.
12:28When did that kind of come into fruition?
12:30Well, once I started bringing over my Musical.ly audience, I realized that they were a lot younger.
12:36So I was always someone that cared about who was watching my videos.
12:42So I definitely pivoted my content to make it for a younger audience because I felt like I had a responsibility and I've always felt that responsibility.
12:52I'm the oldest child.
12:54So I've always had that.
12:55And so I thought if this was my sister at the time, I didn't have kids, like would I want her watching this?
13:02And to this day, all of my content is made with the intent of – I always ask the question, like would I want my daughter watching this?
13:11Would I be proud?
13:12How do they feel when they leave after watching my content?
13:17And I hope that it only builds their self-esteem.
13:20I hope that it's something that parents would also enjoy but also feel confident that their kid can watch it or whoever is watching it and it's okay.
13:30What is kind of the age group demographics of your YouTube fan base?
13:34It veers both ways.
13:36But on YouTube, I would say 8 to 13 is like our sweet spot.
13:42Because I read – before this podcast, I read some profiles with you.
13:46And I think People Magazine was saying how your YouTube – or you told People Magazine that YouTube is like, yeah, 8 to 13.
13:53But then your Instagram and TikTok tends to be more like parents, adults, which is very interesting, like very hard to do.
14:00It's actually very interesting.
14:02We just had the data done for my YouTube channel.
14:05It turns out 71% of parents watch it with their kids.
14:09So it's definitely a family viewing experience on YouTube.
14:13On Instagram and TikTok, I've talked more about my personal journeys, my infertility issues, my miscarriages.
14:23And with that has come more of a mom audience.
14:27Also being a mom, I share a lot more of the personal content in the mom sense on that channel.
14:34Is that kind of – is that tricky, you know, being so – you're so, you know, popular on both sides, but kind of speaking to those two different audiences?
14:43Is that hard to kind of flip your mind?
14:46Actually, it's not.
14:48It's – I feel like we all have different personalities and – or different parts of us that we like to share.
14:54And for me, I've always had a connection to the younger generation.
14:59I think after being sick and, you know, when you're dealing with a life-threatening disease, you come out seeing life very differently.
15:08And I've always been inspired by kids and their outlook on life.
15:13And I feel like after being so sick and coming back and feeling like I have this second chance, like I felt like very kid-like in the sense of like everything is an opportunity.
15:24Everything is like so great because it's like better than being in a hospital bed.
15:29And so I've always connected to them on that.
15:32And I feel like I really want to make an impact on the next generation.
15:38So that's always been important to me.
15:40And then being a mom, I connect there.
15:44And when I've shared my struggles connecting with other moms, you feel so alone and helpless in those situations.
15:50And when you get to connect with other moms or hear their stories, you feel like you're not alone.
15:55So it really was helpful for me to have that other side and that vulnerability of not only myself, but the people reaching out to me and have that connection as well.
16:06It's like I do love the young generation, but I also love being supported as a mom.
16:12It's interesting to watch because your YouTube videos are very highly produced.
16:16They're like TV episodes.
16:17So that's a huge superpower of yours.
16:20But you also really connect and you share all your health struggles.
16:24You've shared your pregnancy struggles.
16:25What goes through your decision?
16:27Because you could have easily just put those highly produced videos out there and been very successful.
16:32What makes you want to kind of open up and you really share your whole life and your family with your fans?
16:38I think it's connection.
16:40I think videos feel very empty.
16:42If you don't feel like you're connecting, I think that we are all seeking connection.
16:46And I think connection can only happen with authenticity.
16:51And so for as hard as that was with anything I've done, I also was very vocal when I had my colon removed.
16:59And I didn't have an audience then.
17:01I feel like that's when you become the most authentic.
17:05And I think that's when you form the most connections with your audience.
17:09Was that something you kind of debated before you did sharing?
17:12Or was it just natural to you and you just kind of ran with it?
17:14It was, I definitely thought about it.
17:19Yeah.
17:20But I also thought, how could I create this content without sharing my story?
17:27I would feel like I was living a lie.
17:29And I did keep it quiet for a long time.
17:32I mean, I was trying to get pregnant for almost two years.
17:34And those were probably the emptiest years where I just didn't feel fulfilled.
17:41I felt like I'm doing this, like, I'm happy on camera, but they have no idea.
17:46And so it's almost more exhausting to try to be something when you're dealing with something so private.
17:52And once I was able to talk about it, it felt very freeing.
17:57That's very poignant.
17:59That's very interesting.
18:00Yeah.
18:00And like you said, you felt like you were living, not living a lie, but, you know.
18:05So you started after a few months and you convinced Matt to join you, quit the hotel business.
18:10And you got a million subscribers, which is huge.
18:13But now you have 18 million.
18:16Yeah.
18:16Tell me about that growth, that climb.
18:18It was exponential, definitely.
18:21I think, well, what I really think did it was Matt and I decided to vlog.
18:29We daily vlogged for 500 days straight.
18:32And I think that that really set us up for now because they got to see us every single day.
18:39They got to see a majority of our life.
18:42And I think that that really connected them with us.
18:47Whereas now we don't daily vlog, but a lot of those people grew up with us.
18:53And we were, like, core memories for them, you know, like, over two years.
18:58And so I think that that really catapulted us to be able to grow exponentially later was putting in all of that time
19:07and really letting the audience get to know us back then.
19:10For our listeners who might have missed it, what would happen?
19:13Like, tell me about what the vlog was and what you and Matt were doing every day for 500 days.
19:19It was our life every single day.
19:21We would usually do something related to a challenge of some sort.
19:27But back then it was, like, what is our day?
19:30And we're going to vlog what we do.
19:32And we're going to add maybe an interesting element that would be the title and thumbnail.
19:37But it was just our daily life.
19:39And just film the whole day.
19:40Yeah.
19:41We would film, I mean, not every second.
19:43But it was, you woke up and it was, like, okay, what part do we want to film today?
19:48What do we want to show?
19:49And it was exhausting.
19:50I would never do that now.
19:52500 days.
19:53That was a lot.
19:56I'm really glad we did it, though.
19:58Would you film each other or did you have a crew with you?
20:00We just filmed each other.
20:01This was, like, bare bones.
20:03We had one editor and we just did it all ourselves.
20:06And we're much bigger now.
20:08But, yeah, back then it was very simple.
20:11You don't need a lot to connect with an audience.
20:15You know, that's the great thing.
20:16We all have iPhones.
20:17We can all edit on our phone.
20:19It's very easy for people who really want to do it to be able to grow.
20:25Was it hard with your spouse to be vlogging together all day long?
20:29Or was it bonding?
20:31Or was it, like, driving each other crazy?
20:33I can only imagine.
20:33Yeah.
20:34That's a lot of together.
20:36Yeah, it was.
20:37Especially because we had never worked together before.
20:40I think there was, like, that honeymoon phase where it was, like, great.
20:43And then it definitely became, like, we don't want to do this because it's just for a video.
20:51Like, we also need our real relationship.
20:53The good thing was we were already adults when we did this.
20:57And so the lines weren't as blurred.
20:59We definitely tried to draw a line in the sand on, like, what is filming?
21:03What are we not filming?
21:05And we had been together at that point for over 12 years.
21:09Wow, okay.
21:09So I think that definitely made it better.
21:13Do I think it's healthy?
21:14No.
21:15Would I do it again?
21:16No.
21:17Was it better for our relationship to not daily vlog?
21:21100%.
21:21And after that vlog, so you started, you had a million followers, then you did 500 days.
21:26So that's almost two years or a year and a half.
21:29What did that get your follower count up to from there, subscriber count?
21:33Oh, I honestly don't know exactly, but I would say at least five.
21:39Five million.
21:40And the other channel, probably at least two million.
21:44Five, six million.
21:45You guys both, you and Matt both had, like, other lives and jobs before this jump.
21:49Yeah.
21:50What did your friends and family think when you started going full-time as YouTubers, especially
21:54as you said you were the only adult on Musical.ly?
21:57Yeah.
21:57And then suddenly you two were the couple filming each other all day long for 500 days.
22:02Like, what did everyone think?
22:03Like, well, I know my mom was concerned.
22:06She was, especially when Matt quit his job, she was like, she did not understand it.
22:13And she was like, I think this is a bad idea.
22:15You don't need to listen to my daughter.
22:17Like, please stay at your job.
22:19She is crazy.
22:21But I think over time, they've definitely, like, gotten used to it.
22:26And now they understand what it is.
22:29In the beginning, it was like, what are we doing?
22:32Why are we filming these things?
22:33You just, like, make videos.
22:34Like, she didn't, she's like, I don't know what to tell my friends what you do.
22:37Like, you just, like, film on your phone and, like, wear wigs and, like, weird things in a video.
22:44And so it definitely took them a while.
22:47But actually now having them over years just seeing how hard we've worked, they definitely respect it.
22:54They definitely know we work very hard.
22:56And I think they're very proud of me.
22:59Yeah, that's awesome.
23:00They're also probably, like, the hippest grandparents around because they're in on what's happening on YouTube and TikTok.
23:06Honestly, no.
23:07My mom is, like, they still don't really understand it.
23:10Have they made any cameos on your show?
23:13I mean, yeah, absolutely.
23:14They have been in vlogs.
23:16But my mom always acts crazy.
23:18Like, one time we got out of a movie and we're like, it was really good.
23:21What do you think?
23:21She's like, hey, baby.
23:24I'm like, okay, we're not putting you in content anymore.
23:27You're done.
23:27You're out, mom.
23:28Sorry.
23:28Yeah, I was like, why don't you just act normal?
23:31She's like, I don't know.
23:32Was there one video or one piece of content you look back on that kind of changed the game for you?
23:40I mean...
23:41Or was it like a big break or maybe started another, you know, way of things?
23:46Um, well, yeah, I think that, well, first off, the flash mob was really that, that moment that gave me the confidence that when I was in such a vulnerable place, thinking like, what am I going to do with my life?
23:59Everything I wanted to do, I don't know if I can ever do again.
24:02And so that was definitely a shift where it was like, it's YouTube or nothing.
24:06Like, I have no other option.
24:08That was what I thought in my head.
24:10Now, obviously, I did have other options, but, um, that was it.
24:14And then we created a Game Master series.
24:17And this was like, with solving clues and, you know, there are bad guys.
24:23And it was this series that took off.
24:25And really, it just started when we were trying to connect videos and tell a story and make something interesting.
24:32I have always been obsessed with escape rooms.
24:35And we essentially created an escape room in real life.
24:38And I just thought, you know, what I love about escape rooms is that everyone thinks differently.
24:44And I always think in school, you're taught to think one way.
24:48But in an escape room, everyone's ways of learning are rewarded.
24:52For instance, I'm very visual, so I can see a color pattern on a wall and put it together.
24:58But someone who's very mathematical, that makes no sense to them.
25:02And so you really need each other to work together.
25:05And I love that.
25:06And so we tried to create that in our videos.
25:10And I, my hope was that it led the viewer to feel more empowered, that they weren't dumb, that they thought differently.
25:17And also realizing that we all think differently, but together, we can solve things, you know?
25:25It's not, it's not one mind.
25:27It's many minds.
25:28And so you did that first video and it took off and started a whole, you have a whole new channel and series.
25:32Yeah.
25:33And now you have games and you have apps all based on that.
25:35That's wild.
25:36And just became from your love of, you just started from your love of escape rooms and you decided to put it on YouTube.
25:42Yeah, I think I always create my content with the mind, like, and keeping the viewer in mind.
25:49And with a young audience, I was like, what, what do they need?
25:53And a lot of kids struggle with confidence.
25:56So I was like, why can't we create something that makes them feel empowered?
26:02Why not let them see clues and I don't find it?
26:04I'm okay, like, looking dumb on camera if it makes them feel better.
26:09And so a lot of times they'd figure things out before we did in our videos and it made them feel good.
26:15And hopefully those kids now feel smart when maybe they were made to feel dumb in school just because they thought differently.
26:24And so we were hoping that this would be a way to empower our viewer, keep it more interactive so they weren't just, like, staring at a screen, but they felt like they were a part of our journey with us.
26:34How do you create the games and secrets and traps and puzzles?
26:38A lot of escape rooms.
26:41I can't reveal all the secrets, but, you know, many, many days were spent just, like, constantly creating this world.
26:48I've always been inspired by Marvel-type movies that are able to create these universes.
26:55And I really wanted to create that on YouTube for our audience, something where they felt like they belonged to something.
27:01And also something where things in one video connected to the other videos.
27:06So I just have a lot of fun with that kind of stuff.
27:09So cool.
27:10You're obviously, you're a content creator, you're a filmmaker, you're an entrepreneur.
27:14How do you make money?
27:15So a lot of our money is made off of AdSense.
27:20We are older, too, so we, you know, have invested a lot of our money.
27:25We have a lot of Airbnb properties, so real estate is another passion of ours.
27:31Okay, cool.
27:31So we have a lot of money, or a lot of money, a lot of real estate properties that bring in income.
27:37See, Matt's going back to his hospitality days.
27:39Yeah.
27:39He's back to the hotel for Airbnb.
27:41And we sell merch.
27:44Yeah, tell me about the merch and tell me how that business starts.
27:47Give me, like, advice for people who want to get into merch.
27:50And also how you decide what, because I know you're very authentic with, like, your brand and your life.
27:56How you decide what to sell?
28:00We study what our audience likes.
28:03There's a lot of stores that I know my audience likes, and I like to go in and look at it and study it.
28:10And actually, Matt's parents, Matt's mom and brother run our merch site now.
28:15So she's constantly going in and just, like, observing our age demo and just seeing what they like.
28:22We talked to them.
28:23And then she actually reached out to and sourced China.
28:30Like, she would reach out and just source all of this stuff so that we could bring it back.
28:34So it was done bare bones, too, family run.
28:38And that's how we've built our merchandise.
28:40Wow.
28:40Give me some examples of some of the merch.
28:43Well, we have lip gloss.
28:45Okay.
28:45Which is very popular.
28:47We obviously have T-shirts and hoodies.
28:49We have ZamFam, like, bling clips.
28:53And that was actually his mom that was like, these things are selling like crazy.
28:59Like, I really think that we should do one.
29:01And we did.
29:01And they did really well.
29:03We have beanies.
29:04We have a lot of accessories.
29:08We have little purses.
29:10Yeah.
29:10Yeah.
29:11We're constantly evolving with the merch and just trying to bring new things out.
29:17How about brand partnerships?
29:18So we do a lot.
29:21Well, we have our own line of bows and a board game in Walmart right now.
29:26Okay.
29:26And that was a licensing deal.
29:28And as far as brand deals, we haven't focused as much on brand deals.
29:35We will get back into it.
29:37But I have been creating my own line.
29:39So this last year, my focus was on creating my own line, MOLA, which is a fertility line.
29:45Okay.
29:45Tell me about that.
29:46Because I love when people come up.
29:48I've had Dani Austin on the show.
29:50Yes.
29:51And she was telling me.
29:52Divvy.
29:52And how that came from her personal experience.
29:55And she suffered with hair loss.
29:56And was very open about it to her fans.
29:59And now that company is going gangbusters.
30:02Yeah.
30:02Tell me about yours.
30:03Well, Dani is actually a big inspiration for me.
30:07I've listened to her on numerous podcasts.
30:09And, you know, I struggled with infertility for two years.
30:14And I had multiple miscarriages.
30:19But the last one was definitely the hardest.
30:22I was about to hit nine weeks.
30:24And so that was just like the farthest along that I had gone.
30:28I'm so sorry.
30:28Yeah.
30:29It's tough.
30:30It was a very dark time.
30:32But a nurse came to me.
30:33She was the head of the IVF clinic.
30:35And she talked to me.
30:36And she was like, what are you taking?
30:39And I was taking a prenatal.
30:41And I took maybe a couple others.
30:43But I didn't really know.
30:45And so she gave me a list of vitamins.
30:48She's like, you need to take these for at least three months before you do it again.
30:52You need these vitamins in your body.
30:55And prep your body.
30:57Get it ready.
30:58It's very important.
30:59And especially with the foods we eat, we're not necessarily getting the right nutrients.
31:04Invertility is only increasing.
31:06We're waiting longer to have kids.
31:08So everything is making it harder and harder to have kids.
31:11And so I took these.
31:12Also, I had no colon.
31:14They told me it would be hard to have kids.
31:16So I had all of these things against me.
31:18And I took, I did what she said.
31:21And I was taking 14 like giant pills.
31:24I had no idea.
31:25You know, I was like, okay, I mean, I'll do it.
31:28I'll do anything at this point.
31:29Every morning you have a giant cup of water.
31:30Yeah.
31:31And it was painful.
31:32I mean, these pills are like not small.
31:34I would like choke on them.
31:36I was like just every day so painful.
31:38But I did it.
31:39And I got pregnant and I was able to stay pregnant.
31:42And these nutrients are so important.
31:45And I didn't understand.
31:48I was like, so you tell your patients to take this?
31:50And she's like, yes, absolutely.
31:52I was like, why don't they?
31:54She's like, it's just hard.
31:56It's uncomfortable.
31:57Women don't like taking 14 horse pills.
31:59No one does.
32:01And I was like, why can't we make it easier?
32:03And that's where MOLO came to be.
32:05MOLO is a fertility line that encompasses all of those supplements that I took to get
32:11pregnant that is recommended off research, backed by research, that women should be taking
32:17at least three months prior to getting pregnant, also while during pregnancy.
32:22And a lot of women just don't know.
32:25And so we made it into a powder form now that you can drink.
32:29Like, why did we not do this sooner?
32:31And you can drink everything you need in the morning.
32:34And it can set you up so you don't have to suffer, hopefully, as long as I did to get
32:40pregnant.
32:40And it can be easier.
32:42You have your, how did you, like, you're very busy.
32:44You have your whole media empire.
32:46And now you're getting into the, you know, nutrition supplement game.
32:49How did you, like, do this from scratch?
32:51And how did you, how did you kind of carve out the time for this?
32:54Well, I'm obviously not an expert.
32:56Um, so I reached out to my nurse and I was like, this feels like a problem.
33:02And she said, it is.
33:03I deal with this every day with my patients.
33:05She sees a lot of patients and everyone complains about this.
33:10And I was like, will you help me figure this problem out?
33:14And we tried different iterations.
33:16We at one point tried gummies.
33:18Um, and we weren't happy because we wanted certain ingredients in that maybe didn't do
33:24well in a gummy form.
33:25And so we finally settled on the powder and the powder actually absorbs 33% more than pills.
33:33And it's, and I was like, yes, this, this is it.
33:36This is going to make everyone's life so much easier.
33:39And so that's how we came to be.
33:41And we partnered, um, we found someone who, uh, who's outside right now, and I told him
33:48my idea and I was so passionate about, I mean, this is something that I dealt with for so
33:53long.
33:54I was like, we can make this easier.
33:55We have to do it.
33:56And I truly believe when you have an idea, you're not the only one.
34:00And if you don't do it, someone else will.
34:02And I hope someone else will, because it's, it's been way too hard for women for a long time.
34:07And so I was like, I want to do it.
34:09And I don't care if maybe I don't have the exact audience right now, like we need to
34:13do this and we'll find the audience.
34:16And so, yeah, with her and another guy that he has been a supplement specialist, he has
34:24many products.
34:25His wife suffered with infertility for many years and he was very knowledgeable as well.
34:29And we, we all work together to make this product.
34:32That's so cool.
34:33How are you going to, you have, you know, you have more than 40 million followers.
34:37across all your platforms.
34:38How are you going to use your huge platform to, you know, to get the word out, to sell
34:44this new product?
34:45I mean, on my YouTube channel, it's a lot of families.
34:48So, I mean, connecting with the moms will be the most important thing for this fertility
34:52line.
34:53Obviously their, their kids are not having the fertility, uh, line.
34:58They don't need it, but, um, reaching out to them.
35:02We have TikTok, we have Instagram.
35:05We are also working with other influencers and bringing them in that have that right
35:10audience, talking to people like you to spread the word.
35:13And, you know, I really want to make an impact on women's fertility.
35:17When you create a video now, take me through that process because it's highly produced.
35:21I saw one, you did a hundred, you're still sprinting.
35:23You did a hundred jobs and 24 hours or something like, how do you, Matt, like take me to the,
35:29like from the start to the finish of having an idea for video, how you, how you shoot it
35:33now.
35:33Like, just take me through that whole, like the making of video of your videos.
35:37Yeah.
35:37So the most important thing is the title, the concept and the thumbnail.
35:44So the packaging of it, right?
35:45Because if you have a great video, but you don't have the right title and packaging, then
35:49no one's going to see it.
35:51So we work hard and we're still constantly working on the title, what our audience wants
35:58to see, um, keywords, uh, you know, a lot of other creators have similar audiences.
36:04So like studying what other audiences have, um, done that have done well and pulling from
36:10that to create our own content.
36:13Um, and then picturing, you know, when I think of a title, like when you think of, um,
36:18um, Forbes best selling products, when you like close your eyes, what do you think of
36:26with that?
36:26And like, what does that look like?
36:28You know, like with Forbes, I think of money.
36:31So I'd want to see money on the thumbnail.
36:32If a product, I would want to see a yacht, I would want to see something aspirational.
36:37Right.
36:37So I just like, I try to picture with that title, what do I think of?
36:42Like when you think school, what do you think of?
36:44I think of a school bus, you know, and, and those are what we should be including in our
36:49thumbnail.
36:50And, and so.
36:51Yeah.
36:51Other creators talk about the, like the importance of thumbnail.
36:54And I mean, I think as a journalist, we always think of it as an afterthought.
36:57Like you get the story first, then you kind of pick the art that goes with it.
37:00But a lot of other YouTube creators are saying like, we picture the thumbnail first and then
37:05we create the content based on that.
37:07Yeah.
37:07Tell me about like the, the power of the thumbnails and how do you kind of like, I think as you
37:12said, you kind of almost visualize it, you close your eyes.
37:14Tell me about that.
37:15It really is the most important thing because that will determine your impressions and your
37:21impression is essentially your reach.
37:23So if it, if you can get a thumbnail that appeals to a larger audience, then you'll get more
37:31impressions, which then lead to more views, which then lead to a better video.
37:35And so that is the most, the most important thing.
37:40And I think when you are thinking of a thumbnail, you need to think of what would someone want
37:46to click on.
37:47And it's very easy.
37:48You know, you, you look at a bunch of videos, you click it and you start studying like, why
37:52did I click that one?
37:53There was 10 others on my homepage, right?
37:56On my laptop.
37:57Why did I click that?
37:58Or I'm on my phone and I'm scrolling what made me stop.
38:00And if you just start asking yourself that constantly, you become better at creating
38:05thumbnails and titles.
38:07Very cool.
38:07Do you create them yourselves?
38:08Do you have like a design team now?
38:10I don't know how these YouTube thumbnails kind of have a similar aesthetic to it.
38:15Like how do you create thumbnails?
38:18So we generally create the concept.
38:22We maybe will pull inspo from other thumbnails.
38:24What's interesting about YouTube now is that you don't just make one thumbnail, you make
38:30four thumbnails.
38:31Like you can A-B test them.
38:33So we, for every video, and I know other creators do even more, but we do four thumbnails for every
38:39one video because what you think may work doesn't necessarily work.
38:44And the power of A-B testing, you can see it in live time, like 58% are clicking on this
38:49one and only 25, you know, and the rest are clicking on this one.
38:53How do you do multiple ones at the same time?
38:56It's A-B testing.
38:58But I'm saying like you just, you swap them out?
39:00Like you, no, it's actually, it's kind of like Netflix where you, you put two up at the
39:05same time and YouTube serves it out.
39:08Okay.
39:08And then, you know, if it's 51% here and 49% here, they'll let you know that data pretty
39:14early on.
39:14Oh, wow.
39:15It's because they, they want you to get as many clicks as possible.
39:17Yeah.
39:17Yeah.
39:17So, um, so that's how we test that.
39:21We don't create the thumbnail.
39:23We have a thumbnail artist, but what we do is we concept it.
39:26So whether it's me, I'll take the photos and then we'll do a little drawing of it, or we'll
39:31send like three other inspo ones to be like, it's like this one plus this one.
39:37And then we, there are some amazing thumbnail artists.
39:40Yeah.
39:40I've never heard of these people.
39:41Yeah.
39:42Tell me about the thumbnail artists.
39:43That's, they're, they're like consultants and they do people's thumbnails.
39:46They are, they're freelance a lot of times.
39:49Um, and they, you can find them on Twitter and they are, they're great.
39:54They use a lot of AI, but they are far more talented.
39:57And, you know, in this stage of YouTube, you really are competing against the best.
40:04So putting money and spending the money on the thumbnail is very important.
40:09It's wild.
40:09And they're just way better.
40:10You know, you, you always want to hire people that can do better than you and, and they are
40:15that.
40:15So.
40:16How, do you have a production crew these days?
40:19Yes.
40:19What's your, how big is your crew?
40:20We have about 15.
40:24Wow.
40:24Okay.
40:24So we have five offsite editors.
40:26We have a creative director.
40:29We have three writers, um, two producers, production designer and PAs.
40:37So we've got like a full crew.
40:40You're a studio.
40:41You're a full blown studio.
40:42We are a mini studio.
40:44Mini studio.
40:44I like that.
40:45A mini studio.
40:45Yeah.
40:46How long will it take you to make a video from start to finish?
40:50About two weeks.
40:53We, we stay about two weeks ahead from the time we shoot to when it goes up on YouTube.
40:58Okay.
40:59And how many we, what's your cadence?
41:01So I do six videos a month.
41:04Two of those, uh, two of those are over 45 minutes and then the other four are between
41:1020 to 30 minutes.
41:11How many hours are you in front of the camera for like a 45 minute video?
41:16I am in front of it a lot right now.
41:19We are playing with, um, different people and, and, and taking me out as time goes on.
41:25But right now I'm, um, I'm fully in the content.
41:29I think at some point I will be in it less, um, so I can direct more and produce more.
41:38And I will be more from, uh, um, more of a bigger sense of the content.
41:43We also, I, not only are, is it six videos a month on my channel, but we do a 20 a month
41:48total on our three active channels.
41:51We have seven channels total.
41:53And, um, yeah, we are, we are playing around with, um, bringing other people in and taking
42:00me out just so I can focus on the bigger picture of the brand.
42:04Will, like, will a 45 minute shoot that, I mean, a 45 minute video, would that be like
42:08five hours on, on camera?
42:11Like what's kind of the, is there a ratio?
42:12Our shoot day for a 45 minute video is probably three eight hour days.
42:18Three eight hour days for 45 minutes.
42:21That's incredible.
42:22Yeah.
42:22For a high production video on my main channel.
42:25Yeah.
42:25And then, um, uh, 20 minute video takes us one to two days max, just depending on locations.
42:33If you could go, if you had a time machine and you could go back and tell your younger
42:37self, you know, a piece of advice right before you dove into this creator YouTube game, what
42:43would be that advice be?
42:45I would say work smarter, not harder.
42:49I think that we did do 500 days and I don't regret it, but I think we could have done things
42:55more strategically.
42:56I think the creators now know if, if, when they come in, they need to be more strategic.
43:01I think what we did is we just got in and we figured it out as we went.
43:06Um, I think there's so much on YouTube and so much out there now, especially with AI that
43:11you can learn and study beforehand.
43:14I think we got in and then we studied and it was like, if we had just studied, we could
43:19have been like 10 X sooner.
43:22Um, but I think that's also part of the learning experience.
43:26I think that's the wisdom I have.
43:27It's, it makes it easier for me to, you know, tell people if I think they're like making
43:34a mistake or something because I've done it.
43:36And, um, I would also tell myself it's going to be a long time.
43:41So make sure you love it.
43:43I was lucky I did, but I know some people get into it thinking it's going to be this,
43:47this fast thing and easy, but you really have to love it.
43:52And, um, and I'm lucky I do.
43:55But I also would tell myself, have a, like, take out the key man risk.
44:01I think that, that if I had started that sooner, it would have been an, a lot easier transition.
44:07Meaning like, have it relied less on your shoulders?
44:09Mm-hmm, yeah.
44:10I think I have a lot of strengths that are off camera.
44:14I, I like being on camera, but I, I love all aspects of it.
44:18And I think, um, if you can figure that out and get yourself out earlier, um, if your strengths
44:24are behind camera, I think that's a smart thing to do.
44:27So you can expand faster.
44:29If someone wanted to break into YouTube today, what would be your advice to how to build an
44:34audience?
44:35I would first study the type of content you want to make, the other creators that are
44:40already doing it.
44:41I would see what videos work for them.
44:44And then I would go, I would start making videos because that, I mean, that's the first
44:51thing.
44:52The best way to learn is to just do a lot.
44:54I've done hundreds of thousands of videos, like so many videos.
44:59And, and then I would reach out to other creators once you have content.
45:05Cause I do think it's, uh, I don't think it's possible to reach out and offer something
45:11if, if you have no proof of concept.
45:12Like, I think that you need to put in the work before you can go out to other creators.
45:17But once I did, I would reach out to them, offer more than what you're going to get back.
45:23Know that that's just the give and take.
45:25Like you should be offering them something that they can't offer themselves or get themselves.
45:30And I think that you have to be willing to do a lot of things for free, knowing that
45:37it will pay off later and not for instant reward.
45:41You know, being at Forbes, traditional media is obviously watching creators, watching the
45:45YouTube space, watching the podcast space, you know, very eagerly.
45:49Obviously we're part of the ecosystem, but we're still, you know, have that traditional
45:54feel.
45:54What advice, if you were running like a traditional media company now, what would be like your
46:00strategy for social media?
46:02If I were Forbes?
46:04Sure.
46:04Yeah.
46:05Sure.
46:05I'm Forbes.
46:05We love, we love free advice, especially strategy advice.
46:08I would bring in a Gen Z to see like what they're doing because a lot of times I think
46:14that they're on top of the trends.
46:16I study what they're doing because a lot of times what they do now will become cool later.
46:21Just like musically was like a kid's app.
46:24And now TikTok is the biggest thing.
46:27Not much changed.
46:28It's pretty much the same app without hashtags and it has an algorithm.
46:32So I would, I would bring someone in and see what they're doing.
46:36I also think that Forbes is doing the right thing about really interacting with the creator
46:43space.
46:44I mean, with being a part of the creator community is very important.
46:49I mean, a lot of influencers have more influence, more than celebrities now.
46:54And so really getting in that space and understanding creators and collabing with creators.
46:59And, you know, like you're doing this interview with me, but why wouldn't Forbes want to be
47:05on my channel?
47:07You know?
47:07And I think that right now it's...
47:08Is that an invite?
47:09Yeah.
47:10Come on.
47:10Can I wear a wig?
47:11Yes.
47:11Come be in the ZamFam.
47:13Yeah.
47:13You can, you can do a, yeah, you can be in a cheerleading competition or something.
47:16I'll be like the wacky cousin that comes in from abroad.
47:19I do think there's a way of bringing Forbes into the next generation because, I mean,
47:25Forbes is iconic, right?
47:26It's generational, but like, how do we make this next generation realize how cool it is?
47:31And I think a lot of celebrities are doing a great job of that going into the space.
47:37I know like Kevin Hart has talked to us and is really interested in that space.
47:42And I, we see Will Smith collabing with a lot of creators.
47:45He's everywhere now.
47:46He's doing, he's doing, he's like on the whole tour.
47:48Yeah, and I think why wouldn't, why shouldn't Forbes do that?
47:52Yeah.
47:52Why wouldn't Forbes host a, a creator event and do, you know, Instagram and YouTube type,
47:59you know, activations?
48:01Oh, we do.
48:01We have three this year and you're coming.
48:03Okay.
48:03So we have three creator events.
48:05I'll plug those later.
48:05I think that's great.
48:06I think it's also about getting Forbes onto their channels where right now it's very one-sided,
48:11but I also think that like there is a world in which Forbes can get into collaborating on creators' channels more.
48:20Yeah.
48:20I heard a great, someone talking about like creators breaking into Hollywood and they said,
48:25wait, wait, wait.
48:26Creators are Hollywood now.
48:28Yeah.
48:28Which is true.
48:29Like the whole idea of like the otherness of creators and show business, it's all show business now.
48:34Yeah.
48:35It's fascinating to watch.
48:36Yeah.
48:37We, I used to say I wanted to star on, be a star on a network show and now I am the network.
48:45And there's a lot of power in that.
48:47I think that it's, it's a very exciting time and I think there's a big opportunity.
48:53And I do think that Hollywood does want to understand our world more.
48:59I love your story.
49:00I love how, I mean, you went through a really tough personal health journey, but because of that,
49:05it like forced you to dive into this world and build this whole empire, which made you, like you said, you, your own network.
49:13If you were healthy, that probably wouldn't have happened.
49:16I know.
49:17And then again, struggling with fertility has led me to this line called MOLO.
49:22And I think those are when I've been, you know, my most vulnerable.
49:26And I think that's very powerful.
49:27I think a lot of people are afraid to be vulnerable, but some of the biggest successes can come out of it.
49:36Even if you don't know it right away.
49:38That's a perfect spot to end.
49:40Well, thank you for having me.
49:42I want to thank Rebecca Zamala for joining 4th Top Creators.
49:44Thank you for having me.
49:45Thanks.