How Drew Afualo Built Her Brand To Become 'Too Big To Ignore'

Forbes

Known for her offbeat laugh and women-focused content, TikTok creator Drew Afualo earned an estimated $2.9 million last year from a mix of brand deals and her two podcasts: The Comment Section, a weekly show on which guests like actor Rainn Wilson and singer-songwriter Kehlani talk about how to deal with internet hate, and Two Idiot Girls, where she and her sister, Deison, share embarrassing stories and funny life experiences. With a 9 million–strong audience consisting mostly of women under 35, Afualo’s social platforms appeal to sponsors like Elf Cosmetics and the NBA. In April 2023, she signed a two-year deal with Spotify, which Forbes estimates earns her $450,000 a year. Fresh off the success of LOUD, her best-selling memoir, Afualo is setting her focus on mainstream media. “Traditional Hollywood now must be a lot more open to the idea of including internet people,” she says. “TV and movies—that’s my new venture.”  0:00 Introducing Drew Afualo 2:21 First Viral Moment 6:46 Leveraging The Brand Into A Multimillion-Dollar Career 9:49 From TikTok Videos To A Bestselling Book 13:15 Podcasts And Spotify Deals 14:59 How Afualo Built Her Team 16:49 How Afualo Makes Money 17:24 What's Next For Afualo 18:51 Predictions For The Creator Industry  Subscribe to FORBES: https://www.youtube.com/user/Forbes?sub_confirmation=1  Fuel your success with Forbes. Gain unlimited access to premium journalism, including breaking news, groundbreaking in-depth reported stories, daily digests and more. Plus, members get a front-row seat at members-only events with leading thinkers and doers, access to premium video that can help you get ahead, an ad-light experience, early access to select products including NFT drops and more:  https://account.forbes.com/membership/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=growth_non-sub_paid_subscribe_ytdescript  Stay Connected Forbes newsletters: https://newsletters.editorial.forbes.com Forbes on Facebook: http://fb.com/forbes Forbes Video on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/forbes Forbes Video on Instagram: http://instagram.com/forbes More From Forbes:  http://forbes.com  Forbes covers the intersection of entrepreneurship, wealth, technology, business and lifestyle with a focus on people and success.

Transcript

00:00For someone like myself who started off the way I did like there was a lot of doubt about me in the beginning

00:05And there's not very much doubt about me now is there but to be honest. It's just because I got too big to ignore

00:15I'm here with drew. I'll follow creator influencer actor

00:20Author you name it a man of many hats

00:24Welcome. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here

00:28Give me a quick 30-second like intro and elevator pitch to your brand. I started on tik-tok

00:35making fun of terrible men

00:37Leaned into empowerment wrote a best-selling book. Here we are. That's good. That is a that's a very short elevator. Yeah

00:45Before you started posting on tik-tok, what were you doing? I know you you were a fellow journalist, which I like

00:50Yeah, you made this very smart jump into the creative. Tell me about that. I'm interested in that. Yeah, I

00:56Double majored in college. I went to the University of Hawaii. So I majored in journalism and communications. My dad's a former NFL player

01:02I'm Samoan. So I grew up around football. So I you know had an emphasis in sports journalism

01:07that's where I really wanted to go and I got my degrees and

01:12Graduated and turns out your parents are right. It's very hard to get a job

01:15Very saturated market. So I actually worked in PR for a few years

01:19And then I made the jump to work in the NFL. I worked for the NFL. That was my first big sports job

01:25I'm very excited you do for them. I didn't social media

01:28I was like digital media was kind of my thing for them got fired

01:33And then a kovat hit two weeks later

01:35And then I started making videos because my fiance encouraged me to and now here we are four years later

01:41Well that when you first started making the videos, what was the motivation? I

01:46Think initially it was just a creative outlet for me because I felt very

01:51Stifled and I had never felt that way before I felt very sure of my path my entire life

01:55Career wise up until I got fired. Obviously that makes you rethink a lot of things

01:58So I started with story times initially about my own journeys through dating and that's kind of what started

02:05Peaking interest and then I did one video about red flags and men

02:10And that was my very first one to like take off and then it just snowballed into this

02:16Crusade of hunting them down for sport. So and it worked out

02:20So you so tell me when this thing took off. What do you mean?

02:23Like you looked at your phone one day and it was like whoa, wait a minute. This is

02:26Getting a lot of views. Yeah, it was I mean my very first video to go viral like to hit a million views

02:31I've never seen anything like that before but more so I think

02:34The hate that I was getting from men was very shocking to me because I've I'm 29

02:39So I grew up on the internet. I've I've been a lawyer for in a consumer for a while

02:43So I'd never experienced that kind of attention online before I thought it was funny

02:48A lot of other people thought it was funny very specific men did not find it funny

02:52Which made it funnier to me so that it just I think it just gradually started building like very quickly

02:58And how would you how did you plan what you're gonna post? I think after I saw

03:03What did well and what made me laugh?

03:06I was like, well, I could just keep doing this and having fun with it

03:10So back in the day, I used to post like 10 videos a day

03:13But it was mostly just making fun of men who were saying awful things to me

03:16I was just pumping them out like crazy. I don't do that anymore

03:21Replying to all the trolls. Yeah, yeah essentially because I thought that was funny

03:24But I guess like a lot of people online had never seen

03:27Someone like myself handle hate from men in that way, which is just laughing and then doing it back

03:32So that's kind of what I think drew people to me initially. It was my reaction to hate. It doesn't hurt me

03:39Motivates me when you were started you started doing those videos who was the audience in mind?

03:44Like were you thinking of a certain viewer out there or you just trying to make stuff that you yourself would like and make yourself

03:49Laugh, like what was the kind of who did you picture in your head when you're making those at first?

03:53It genuinely was just something I thought was very funny. I

03:57Found that very entertaining. So I thought I'm gonna make it because I find it funny after it started compounding very quickly

04:04I realized that it wasn't just for me

04:07it was for anyone marginalized that these kinds of men target and harass and

04:13Send hate to it was for them as well. Like as it started growing and growing rapidly

04:18I realized it was a lot bigger than just me. Are you funny growing up? You're like a funny kid. Yeah, I'd say so

04:24I like being funny. I like entertaining. So who do you like any like any

04:29People you look up to like whether any

04:31sorts of comedy or any comedians that really kind of you're like

04:34Oh, I like what they do and you kind of model yourself. I mean inspiration. Yeah

04:38I mean as far as like just being funny in general

04:41I think my family made me that way like

04:43Obviously like I like I said, I'm someone and we love to roast each other for fun. And that's how I got good at it

04:49That's how I got good at laughing at myself as far as comedians go

04:52Like I mean my friend Caleb Heron's one of my favorite comics Chris Fleming is one of my Wanda Sykes

04:57Monique like I've loved stand-up comedy forever

05:00But as far as just generally being good at making fun of

05:04Awful men like I just got good reps lots of reps

05:07I know you come from a big Samoan family and sisters. Is your mom and sisters funny?

05:12Yes, very much so. My whole family's like that. So all right, so you're making these videos are taken off suddenly

05:18Like instead of just doing something for yourself, they're getting millions of views

05:22When did it turn into like wait a minute?

05:24This could actually be a business like I mean could actually be like a creator. I could be a social media personality

05:30I think when it started shifting for me was when I

05:33Started at one point my videos were growing so rapidly that I was I was growing like a hundred thousand like every three or four

05:41days

05:41So every three days I would get a hundred thousand more followers and then a hundred thousand more

05:46so as it started

05:47compounding I was like

05:48I think this is turning into like something like some sort of a following as far as when I thought I could turn it into

05:54A business is probably when I got signed into an agency and I got my first agent who's still my agent to this day

05:59Love her. And so I think when I signed with her was when I was really like, okay

06:04I can like actually like do this like for a living like as a job. So how many followers do you have now?

06:08I have 8.1 million on tik-tok and 1.1 million on Instagram

06:14How do you decide like I'm gonna post on tik-tok or I'm gonna post on Instagram or you kind of do one video and put

06:20It on both. I typically do videos only on tik-tok and then on

06:25Instagram that's kind of more of a lifestyle thing for me

06:29I think it's just a way for me to extend branding past just making fun of

06:33Internet I could do a lot of other things too. So my Instagram is more so lifestyle stuff

06:37So I don't really have like a a pattern per se

06:41I try to post at least once a day or once every other day. I don't just do it as it comes to me now

06:46Nice, so you're so back back the day. It's COVID you're blowing up

06:49Sure other at this point of their managers calling agents calling brands calling trying to get into like your into your influence

06:57Honestly, it's shocking. We know I I really didn't have any interest at all in the beginning when I when I really started taking off

07:03I had a couple like I had like maybe two

07:07One of them was the agent that I'm still with now looking back

07:11I know why now because my branding was very specific. So there weren't a lot of agencies

07:17I think that were willing to take a chance on me

07:19Okay

07:20Obviously I have the engagement and I have the platform and the attention

07:23There was a little bit of fear around marketing me like whether or not I would be marketable at all

07:28My agent saw that in me

07:30she actually really had to fight to sign me because

07:33there were other people higher up people at the company that she worked at that were kind of like well, I don't know like

07:38You know, we might not be able to sell her to anybody

07:41Okay, and so she really fought for me

07:43They signed me and it turned out it was a very good idea to sign me because once she signed me and I

07:48Worked with like one or two brands that were willing to take the chance

07:52It just kind of snowballed after that once everyone saw the like draw, I guess

07:57Yeah

07:58What were the or some of your early brands you work with that took the chance on Drew?

08:02One of them was the brand change, which is a sustainable clothing line

08:05Actually, the only clothing I've ever put out is with change and it's because it's size inclusive

08:10It's genderless and it's a nonprofit. So they

08:14Donate half of the proceeds always go towards some charitable organization and they're ethically made here in the US

08:20So they were like one of the first brands to take a chance on me and their

08:24Messaging and their branding and everything they they stand for and speak out for I feel so passionately about so it kind of felt

08:30Like a match made in heaven. They were one of the first brands

08:35Dermalogica the skincare was one of the first brands to reach out to me

08:38Youth to the people was a big one too. Like it's more so like brands that were

08:43Really looking for someone outside of just like I think what people are used to when they think of influencers, right?

08:50Beauty and lifestyle are obviously very important pillars of influencing

08:53But I think my obviously I'm not a beauty and lifestyle like specific creator. I'm a little different than that

08:59So I think they just dug that and who do you work with now? Oh

09:03Man I mean all kinds of people I've worked with alcohol brands. I've worked with

09:08Like I worked with cash app. I've worked with clothing

09:13Makeup skincare haircare. I've worked with anyone you could possibly think of

09:17Yeah

09:17When you get an offer how you decide like this is gonna be

09:20This is something I want to get behind versus something I might pass on like what do you when you're looking for a partnership?

09:25Yeah, what what do you look for in that brand and kind of in that relationship?

09:28Yeah, I mean, I mean, I guess moral integrity is is like front of house

09:34Whether or not it's inclusive whatever that may look like whether it's clothing skincare makeup like making sure it's

09:41Ethically sourced that we're just aligned on our goals and what we stand for more than anything

09:47I think that's the most important thing. Cool. You took that and you're expanding now. You just wrote a you wrote a bestseller

09:52Loud, yeah, it's called loud. Yes, you have two podcasts. Yes

09:57How did we get to that well, I'm let's talk about the book first because I love how you got, you know

10:02You've got famous with tick tocks, which is obviously

10:05Extremely short form. Yes bits of content and short focus and then you sat down and wrote a book

10:11What was kind of what was that motivation and kind of how did you do it? Yeah, I mean transparently I was a little worried

10:17I now wouldn't say worried. I honestly didn't think I could write a book when the idea was initially brought to me

10:24By my manager, I know my mom my mom's one of my managers as well

10:27And she was she really wanted me to write a book too

10:30And my manager said I just think you have something really important to say

10:34I think you could expand a lot because he spent so much time with me. Here's the talk all the time

10:38I feel so bad for him feel bad for my whole team

10:39They still listen to me app all the time, but he knows me on a very personal level, too

10:43So he was like I just think you have something very important to say and I think people would want to hear it

10:48So I wasn't closed off to it. I was just kind of like I mean, I'm a

10:51I'm just an idiot online. I don't know if like writing a book is the move for me and he said well

10:57Let me just set up some meetings and maybe we could just talk about it and maybe maybe something will come to you

11:02So, you know

11:03I agreed to meetings obviously and I met with my now literary agents and we kind of talked about if I did write a book

11:10What would it what would I want it to be about and we went through that whole meeting and my literary agent told my manager

11:16Like I want to do this with her. Like I think she can do it and I think it's a great idea

11:20So that's kind of how the book came about. What was the process like? Well, what was which you're writing process?

11:24well, initially it was just talking more more talking more more yapping I

11:30Just sat with my literary agents and talked like they asked me give me like 15

11:35Topics 15 20 topics that you think you could expand on that fall under the umbrella of like decentering men decentering male validation

11:43dismantling

11:45Internalized patriarchal structure like and so I wrote down like 15 20 topics

11:49We whittled it down to like and these things you've these things you've covered on social media before

11:54yeah, and in so many words like I've covered them, but obviously in the very

11:58Like concise way you can in like a one to two and a half minute video

12:02And so then from there some of them we combined some of them we got rid of and then we got our final list

12:08And so then we picked one to kind of focus on so then from there they would they would pick one and they'd be like

12:13Hey, you know what like give me 2,000 words on this and give me

12:183,000 words on this and so then I would just write

12:21Like however, it came to me and send it and there's just like edits more edits send back and it's more than it's send back

12:26It was very tedious after a while, but that's kind of how it started

12:29It was just a month of me talking about everything that's ever happened to me ever in my entire life

12:34That falls within those topics and then from there is when we started piece healing

12:39That's good that you did like in like, you know bite-sized pieces. So yeah

12:42Oh sitting there. I have to write a hundred thousand words

12:45That's very cool. And I'm also very like busy, too

12:48So they were trying to be cognizant of my schedule and all the other things I have going on

12:52So I was working at the same time. I was writing. So what time of the day do you write you like a certain time?

12:56Oh, no, it was all over the place. I would write I wrote on my laptop. I wrote on my phone

13:01I wrote in the early hours in the morning. I wrote late at night

13:03I wrote in the afternoon like he was very buried

13:05We're not posting on tik-tok and Instagram and writing best-selling books. You also have not one but two podcasts

13:11Tell me about those how they came about and how do you kind of come up with ideas?

13:15Yeah, I for the first podcast I started it was actually the one with my sister

13:18Which is called two idiot girls and we started that before I even started a tik-tok. I think we just we love

13:25Just talking and yeah, but we're sisters. So we love to talk to each other all the time about the most random things

13:31So that's how that one kind of started

13:33we just love telling stories and giving our useless thoughts on things and then the comment section was actually a

13:39Combined effort of me and my production team and we came up with the idea after obviously I built the following and we talked about what

13:47We wanted it to look like and what we would want it to sound like and who we would want to have on and so

13:52I started the comment section with my production team and it was just us for like the first

13:58I think five or six months and then I became Spotify exclusive before I even hit a year filming it

14:04They were very interested. The show was doing so well, and so we became Spotify exclusives after and so they're very different

14:10Vibes like it. I think the comment section I call my show because it's more like a talk show

14:15Whereas two idiot girls is more of a podcast and it's more chill and it's more silly and it's more

14:20I mean, there's silliness on both sides, but I feel like they're just two different sides of me

14:25And so I think that's why they work so well

14:28Co-existing because people get to people are so multifaceted. So obviously, obviously we know I can make fun of men

14:34Obviously, we know that but I can do a lot. Thank you for sparing me. Yeah

14:38It's still early. It's still early

14:41Don't tempt me, but I love you mentioned

14:43You mentioned, you know production company

14:45I think so many people so I cover influencers as well

14:48And I think a lot of people think it's just drew with her phone

14:53Holding it but the more and more this is getting so professionalized and yeah, you are a brand a business

14:58Yes, tell me what like what your infrastructure looks like your team

15:02I know you have a lot of great family works for you

15:04But also you're doing multiple you put on multiple shows like what is what do what is the viewer that sees you on tik-tok?

15:11Missing behind the scenes with like how involved this is becoming like a company

15:15Yeah, I mean as far as my my personal tick tocks go, obviously, that's just me

15:20I don't have I don't have a social person or like

15:23Someone who posts for me and everything that goes up is from me like in my phone

15:27But as far as the projects outside, obviously like I have an agent. I have a manager what to counting my mom

15:34I have a personal assistant. I have three business managers. I have a lawyer. I have a stylist. I have a hair makeup artist

15:40I have a whole production team like a producer and an editor a social person for the comment section

15:46I have an editor for two idiot girls 2d a girl's is also underneath another podcast umbrella

15:51So we have a team there too that helps I have a we have a patreon and I have a patreon manager as well

15:56Who runs our patreon like I think obviously my book I have publishers

16:01Which is I don't even know how many people my literary agents

16:05I have like I have one literary agent with a team of three or four. I'm looking at like 30 to 40 plus people

16:11Yeah, you're like a whole industry. Yeah under my employees. Some of them are under me personally

16:15Some of them are an extension of my business. It's all very we do a patreon

16:18Oh on patreon, we do a lot of bonus content for 2d girls

16:22So obviously we work with patreon, but I have a patreon manager

16:26So he's he runs the patreon as far as like making sure everything's going smoothly

16:31Making sure we're staying on time with uploads and all that kind of stuff. He's fantastic the bit your business

16:36What is the I know there's very I mean with your business. I know there's a lot of varied revenue and sources

16:43What is like your bread-and-butter in terms of like how does this be these 40 people you describe 30 people

16:49What is the main source of revenue these days for my everyone on my payroll?

16:54It's it's mostly brand deals and then my larger projects

16:57So my book and my Spotify exclusive show and also 2d a gross too is very revenue generating as well

17:03So those it's like I got like three or four big poppers that fund the majority of it

17:09And then I also I do speaking engagements and I do like I went on tour so like the whole nother yeah

17:16Revenue stream. So I got my fingers in many pies. I love it. So what are you excited about?

17:20You've had a crazy busy year. Yeah, what are you like?

17:24What is your goals the next like six months to a year like there's certain?

17:27Projects you want to dive into or there's certain brands you want to work with or new new ideas

17:32What what is like your focus right now? Yeah right now

17:36Well, the book was my biggest focus and thankfully it went fantastic and wonderful. Oh, thank God. It did very well

17:43So putting her down for now

17:46I'm probably moving towards TV and movies right now. That's kind of my new venture

17:51Maybe another book who knows if I haven't yeah

17:54Let me just I'll never sleep again and I'll just write another one and then obviously I would love to work with more brand deals

17:58And stuff too, but I think just kind of moving into other industries that I haven't quite touched yet

18:03And I think TV and film mostly I love when people go from like the tiny screen to like the yeah

18:07Yeah, what what give me can you give me like a little hint at what that TV movie might be?

18:12Is there something in production or you think you shopping things around? What's what's that? Yeah

18:16I mean, I've auditioned for a few things. I've you know, I'm I've read for a few things that are currently

18:23They have been purchased and they're just casting so like I'm in some stages of those

18:29Processes right now too, and I did some movie reads

18:32I did some voiceover reads to like as like voicing a character. So I've done quite a few little things

18:37Have you acted before you trained? Uh, no

18:40No, not at all. Not professionally. Anyway, I mean I did I took theater and like college

18:46I took some classes in Dutch. So but that's the extent cool. Yeah in your I mean

18:52You cover the media world you cover the influencer world creator world

18:56What big predictions do you have for like the creator economy right now

19:01It's changing so fast in the next six months. Like what are the trends? What are your big predictions happening?

19:06I would say that I mean, I think this shift is already currently happening

19:10Which is what people know as traditional Hollywood is now

19:14having to be a lot more open to the idea of including

19:18Internet people and I know a lot of a lot of traditional talent like sometimes industry people on the traditional side of Hollywood

19:26Really hate that like they hate including us

19:28They hate seeing us said certain things and I get it I guess to an extent but at the same time I

19:36Feel like if it weren't for the internet people like myself would never get seen

19:40There are so many people on the internet who have platforms now that do not fall within a cisgendered heterosexual

19:47white thin body so

19:49Some of us don't have that and won't ever get seen unless we like force people to look at us

19:55and so for someone like myself who started off the way I did like

19:59I've told people before like they're like I mentioned earlier

20:02There was a lot of doubt about me in the beginning and there's not very much doubt about me now is there but to be honest

20:08It's just because I got too big to ignore it. They were ignoring me for a very long time big too big to fail

20:13Yeah

20:15Exactly. So I think I think it's a beautiful thing. I think fighting it is what makes it harder

20:20I think if you lean into it and just embrace it like there is a reason why so much traditional talent and whether they're actors actresses

20:28singers artists

20:29Producers directors a lot of them are reaching out to us

20:33To work with them on their socials because it's important and it matters and everybody is on social media now

20:38I'm like fighting it so hard is not gonna stop it from happening

20:41so I think that's what will continue to happen it will evolve and it will include more internet people and

20:47Hopefully, it'll include more marginalized people who don't fit in these traditional Hollywood boxes

20:53but are still too talented to not be seen so and I have to ask because this is the

20:582025 under 30 list and we're in the age of AI so I have to ask you the AI question from your view as a

21:03creator

21:05What's your prediction for AI? Is it changing at all anything changing how you do your work? Do you see like?

21:11Like an AI clone drew out there on tik-tok and

21:16Using AI at all to change your way

21:18I mean to change your processes or is it pretty much standard nothing has hit you

21:21I mean for me personally, no, I don't I don't utilize AI or see myself utilizing it for any personal business gain

21:29I do think that I I think technology development is is cool in a lot of ways

21:35But I also think it

21:37Cannibalizes art and I think that AI pulls from human experience. So if you get rid of humans, what can it pull from?

21:44It can't pull from anything. So AI can never replace

21:48The human experience and like human thought and cognitive ability. That's kind of the whole point. So I think

21:55Sure, if it wants to exist sure as far as replacing anyone or anything

22:00I don't think that's a good thing at all

22:02I don't see myself leaning towards that. But again, I'm not gonna I don't want to piss off AI though. They might come yet

22:09It's listening, right? Yeah coding. That's I don't want any beef

22:13We're true follow. Thank you so much for joining us

22:25You

22:32You

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