24.Hours in Police Custody S01E03 (13 Oct 2014)
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00:00Now, police are advising children and parents in Bedfordshire to be on their guard as they investigate reports of a man targeting young girls on their way to or from school.
00:11Detectives believe five incidents in which children were followed and in some cases grabbed in Dunstable and Leighton Buzzard are connected.
00:20You're looking at thousands of pictures and hundreds of movies. I've been looking at them now for two days solid and I've had enough. They're so horrific.
00:35I haven't been able to sleep properly.
00:49Once the suspect is in custody, the police have 24 hours to investigate and interview.
01:02After that, it's either charge or release.
01:06You have been arrested on suspicion of human trafficking.
01:09On suspicion of stalking.
01:11On suspicion of GBH.
01:13Position and making of indecent images of children.
01:16On suspicion of conspiracy to murder.
01:18Start explaining.
01:19It's the police's job to ask what really happened.
01:26Where were you on the 28th of March?
01:28It was not me. I was not there.
01:30That could have been a hundred and one people.
01:32There's nothing to do with me.
01:37Police!
01:38I'm going to die now!
01:43Who's innocent?
01:44Who's guilty?
01:46Why would Pete say that he'd assaulted him?
01:48Because he's deluded. He's a drunk.
01:50Well, that's nonsense.
01:52Police!
01:53Show me your hand!
01:54From the streets to the interrogation rooms.
01:57Where's the knife?
01:58Did you have a knife?
01:59He made specific threat that he is going to kill her.
02:03From the suspects to the head of CID.
02:05That's one hell of a shirt, David.
02:08I'm loving it.
02:12These are the men and women who have just 24 hours to find the evidence.
02:16I'm not letting him get away with it.
02:18I want him nicked and charged.
02:20If he kicks off, I'm out of the door.
02:23I'm a lover, not a fighter.
02:24Will they discover it before time runs out?
02:30Good news.
02:32Yeah.
02:34Got him.
02:35Luton Police Station has a dedicated child safeguarding investigation unit, with four detectives working full-time on child abuse cases.
03:05I mean, I've got pictures of children naked, and then they'll hold a bit of paper or a placard that says, here's for you.
03:12They look like they're happy, smiling, and I think that's...
03:16Because they're pleasing their parent, aren't they, or their parents?
03:19It's grooming, isn't it?
03:20Yeah.
03:21I could never quantify how much child abuse there is out there, but it's something that goes on behind closed doors, day in, day out.
03:31It's something that people would like to think doesn't exist, but it does.
03:37I just naturally progressed into child protection.
03:40I always liked investigating sexual offences.
03:43I know it sounds really strange, but they're the victims that you want to protect, and they're the people that you want to look after.
03:48OK. So, tell me about it, Celine, what you've found out so far.
03:56OK, so, the investigation commenced last year in 2013.
04:00It involves a female child who alleges that he touched her in a sexual manner.
04:06It has been going on for the last couple of years.
04:09And he was arrested for that, and currently on bail, is that right?
04:12He was arrested and admitted to sexual touching, but just on one occasion.
04:18You've seized computers, you've had the computers back, and you've been looking at the images.
04:23Yeah, both laptops contain a large amount of indecent images, ranging from level 1s to level 5s.
04:29Videos of adult males having sex with children as young as 6, 7, 8.
04:37I don't think he's safe out on the streets.
04:39I don't think children are safe, especially with the additional information we've just received.
04:44So, I think, really, bearing in mind what you found, we need to try and get him in sooner rather than later.
04:50Does he work?
04:51He does.
04:53So, it would have to be something early morning?
04:54Early morning.
04:55OK.
04:56Can we look at maybe tomorrow morning?
04:58Yeah, that's fine.
04:59OK.
05:08The suspect was first arrested nine months ago, but to allow the police more time to investigate, he was freed on bail.
05:16Forensic examination of his computers has revealed images of extreme child abuse.
05:26Police need to act immediately.
05:28Do you know how many cyber frauds he's got?
05:31You're looking at thousands of pictures and hundreds of movies.
05:38To be fair, I've been looking at them now for two days solid and I've had enough.
05:44They're so horrific.
05:45I haven't been able to sleep properly.
05:49This guy has got a massive sexual interest in children.
05:52I've been looking at him.
06:20Hello? Hello, it's DC Humphreys.
06:45Excuse me, I'm in the shower.
06:47Can you make yourself decent, please?
06:50Oh, just now, thank you, excuse me.
06:51Yeah, well, it's fine.
06:54I didn't actually bring a bathrobe in with me.
06:58Do you want me to get you something?
07:00I'll have a towel with me, excuse me.
07:02Well, back yourself up then.
07:05Are you going to be taking me away?
07:07Let me come in and explain.
07:12Right, OK.
07:17Obviously, you're on bail.
07:18I am.
07:18And having viewed your computers, I've come to further arrest you.
07:24OK.
07:24What we're going to do now is we're going to take you to Luton Police Station, where I can formally interview you about that.
07:30OK.
07:30As well as you being arrested, two of my colleagues will be staying to search the property for any other computers or any other storage media.
07:39Is there anything here you need to tell us about?
07:47Well, yes, that one.
07:50OK.
07:50Which one, sorry?
07:51The notebook?
07:52Yeah.
07:52What are we going to find on that notebook?
07:56Some of the same.
07:57OK.
07:57All right.
07:58We won't talk about it any further.
08:00That's fine.
08:00That's fine.
08:00That's fine.
08:01Just say it's all day here.
08:02Yeah, anyway.
08:03Right.
08:04Do you want to pop your shoes on now?
08:06Yeah, shoes, I think on there.
08:07There's nothing on the storage device over there.
08:09The laptop there, there's nothing on there at all.
08:13Don't worry.
08:14You go with the officers, please.
08:17Yeah.
08:17Yeah.
08:18Right, you've got your spare keys, your wallet and your phone.
08:21Is that right?
08:22OK.
08:23We're not going to handcuff you, because I don't think you'll make a run for it, will you?
08:29Yeah.
08:39All these discs.
08:42Do you want to take one room, I'll take another?
08:51Police have issued a warning for school children after a series of attempts to grab young girls.
08:56The incident at 4pm on Friday could be linked to four others of a man following, approaching or grabbing girls.
09:02The 10-year-old, who was unharmed, described the man as around 5 foot 3 or 5 foot 4 inches tall, old and balding, with white hair, stubble and a deep voice.
09:10If people are concerned that a crime has taken place, pass information to Operation OpenShore.
09:19Yay, earlies.
09:25What do you just leave me with?
09:26Stick your hand up.
09:27The morning briefing is about another serious child safety alert.
09:30Everyone else is going to be losing.
09:33During the last three weeks, a number of reports have come in of a man trying to abduct girls on their way home from school.
09:41All right, this one we've spoken about yesterday.
09:44Two of the knights have gone over to make an arrest in relation to this operation.
09:48Local media coverage has led to hundreds of calls from panicked parents.
09:54I'll type all this up, get on there and make sure the duty sheets are done today.
09:58OK.
09:58With the culprit at large, the major crime unit is leading Operation OpenShore.
10:05How we've come to this chap is, basically, last weekend, there was an incident up the road where this male has approached a young girl of nine years old and tried to coax her in the car.
10:17And she produced an e-fit of, basically, this chap here.
10:21We got that last night.
10:22So on the circumstances of him approaching girls at the weekend, the e-fit as well, we're going to make an arrest.
10:30The privacy is screw the car and deal with that.
10:35Operation OpenShore could be every parent's worst nightmare.
10:39Because their child, they've said goodbye to in the morning, has went to school and potentially not come home.
10:46Could be, in the worst case scenario, taken away, abducted, raped and murdered.
10:52OK.
10:52We'll follow you.
10:53We'll follow you.
10:53We'll follow you.
10:54Yeah, we'll follow you.
10:57He's got arrested twice recently, but they're both no further action.
11:02One was for possession and decent images, and he's got, like, a fetish for wearing nappies and school uniforms and that kind of stuff.
11:13Can you just get dressed?
11:23Yes, I'm going to get dressed.
11:24Why don't you look at my clothing over here?
11:26Where's your clothing at?
11:27Please, can I just bring my face?
11:29No.
11:30Please, can I just bring my face?
11:33That's all I'm asking.
11:33No.
11:34Yes, I'm getting myself some clothes.
11:36For fuck's sake.
11:37This is ridiculous.
11:39This is absolutely ridiculous.
11:41Put your hand like this.
11:43We'll handcuff you.
11:44Hands in front of you.
11:45This makes me look like a common criminal.
11:46Right, I need to get some other stuff as well.
11:47I need to get my keys for my house.
11:49We'll secure that.
11:50I've got to sort that out for you, because they'll need to conduct the search here.
11:52No, I want my keys.
11:53No, we'll keep the keys, because otherwise we're going to be searching your property, under Section 32.
11:59What?
12:00What are you searching for?
12:01I'll be explained to you.
12:02Please leave my girlfriend alone.
12:03She's in the back bedroom.
12:04Right.
12:05You said nobody else was here.
12:06You...
12:07Well, she's a blow-up girlfriend.
12:08Right.
12:09I'll leave her alone.
12:10Yeah.
12:11We don't have sex now.
12:12I need you to find me, and I shall...
12:14And I shall...
12:15And I shall fucking suit you.
12:23What's up there?
12:24We've got an open...
12:26We've got an open attic with a small ladder, so clearly he's had access up there.
12:30We've got three rooms.
12:32We've got a couple of, like, baby grow jumpsuits.
12:35Have a look.
12:36We've got, in here, blue shorts.
12:40Yeah.
12:41We've got the doll they're dressed up in.
12:43I assume there's still a uniform there, which is relevant.
12:45Yeah.
12:46So I think we need to photograph and or film, get it documented before we start touching anything.
12:53Okay.
12:54We'll start grabbing a bit of some.
12:55Okay.
12:56We'll start grabbing a bit of some.
12:58Mmm, it's so lovely clean.
12:59Mmm, a lovely nice smell.
13:00That's true, isn't it?
13:01Yeah.
13:02Yes.
13:03Really nice.
13:04Lovely fresh smell.
13:05What's it called?
13:06Super Valley Wiz.
13:07That's the one, yeah.
13:08Wow.
13:09It's got a refreshing smell, though, isn't it?
13:10It's really, really nice.
13:11Four-in-one properties it's got here.
13:12Alright, that's a bit better.
13:13Alright, that's a bit better.
13:38So then, do you know all these fish of yours, then?
13:50Funny enough, they had some more babies yesterday.
13:52More!
13:53It's just carnage every time one has babies, isn't it?
13:55Yeah, just get eaten.
13:56I just had a quick peek before I left this morning.
13:58There was a couple of little ones in there.
14:00I might have to end up giving them away, but...
14:05Yeah.
14:08When I first dealt with paedophiles, it wasn't people that I expected.
14:22It isn't the scary-looking man that walks around in a trench coat
14:26that looks a bit dodgy.
14:29It was the guy at the pub that you always chat to.
14:32It was the guy at the gym that you make friends with.
14:37It's the next-door neighbour that you think's lovely.
14:40It's these everyday people, which makes it even more the scarier,
14:44because it's these people that just walk around in general public
14:48and you would never suspect a thing.
14:54DC's Selina Humphreys has found images of child abuse
14:57on her suspect's computer.
14:59Right, so if you follow me over here...
15:01Hello!
15:07This time, she wants to ensure he's not released.
15:10She has 24 hours to build a case.
15:13He's already on bail for sexual touching of the child.
15:17Having analysed his computers, I have found indecent images and videos of children.
15:24These are just naked children.
15:43These are just naked children.
15:45I say just.
15:46These are naked children.
15:50I'm just going to go with what levels I've categorised already.
15:54I think he'll admit it, but he'll minimise it.
15:58So I'll see how many...
16:01I'm not sure how many images I've got.
16:04And which computer it relates to.
16:07I mean, it's quite obvious that since we've either released him on bail,
16:11he's now gone and downloaded more indecent images of children,
16:15because he's already alluded to the fact that there's a laptop in the house
16:20with indecent images on it.
16:22So if we let him out again on bail, he's just going to do the same thing.
16:27And then when does that turn into a contact offence?
16:30Yeah, absolutely.
16:33People looking at images on computers is an everyday occurrence,
16:36and the people are doing it and sharing that information with each other all the time,
16:40and it is out of control, really.
16:4220,000 images on somebody's computer and this mass amount,
16:46they've all got a child connected to them,
16:49which means it's 20,000 child cases of abuse.
16:53And they're horrific.
16:55Some of them are absolutely horrific, what children are being put through.
16:59The operation openshore suspect is the third man to be brought in for the alleged offence.
17:18The others were released without charge.
17:23Where were you born, sir?
17:30In the hospital.
17:32Yeah, which one?
17:33No idea.
17:34OK.
17:35So you're not going to tell me those details?
17:37No, because it's irrelevant.
17:42They gave it a night there, to interview.
17:44I went to introduce myself and Colin.
17:47And he was going, look, the more you stay, he just wouldn't shut up.
17:50And I was like, shut up.
17:53I can't talk to you now about why you're here.
17:55And he goes, well, the longer we're here talking, the longer I'm here,
17:58and the more time you're not doing what you're supposed to do.
18:01And I was like, hey, yeah.
18:04Shut up, then.
18:08I think it's going to be fun.
18:10All right, do you have any later health problems?
18:14Depression?
18:15Anxiety?
18:16Well, it makes me depressed getting arrested.
18:18OK.
18:19The man has been arrested before.
18:20Police suspected he had a sexual interest in children,
18:23but the images in his possession turned out to be of adults,
18:26and he was released without charge.
18:28Have you tried to harm yourself, sir?
18:29No.
18:30OK.
18:31How are you feeling at this moment in time?
18:32I'm pissed off.
18:33Gordon Blair's team is preparing for interview.
18:36I walked up this morning and said the magic words.
18:39The rest was just after about ten past seven.
18:44Between five past and ten past seven.
18:46Flash.
18:47You are joking, Gordon.
18:48You're joking.
18:49God bless me.
18:50Flash.
18:51To link him to the case, officers need to search the suspect's house.
19:00They'll be looking for clothing, trainers, and a distinctive car seat cover reportedly seen by a victim.
19:06We're controlling it when we have them in custody.
19:09We control the elements.
19:10We control vehicles, houses, et cetera, for the search and something else.
19:15But just because we arrest somebody, we are not saying they've definitely done it.
19:20Yeah.
19:21He did make comments, but nothing significant after arrest.
19:24Do you know what I mean?
19:25There's no significant comment.
19:26He did blab, but apart from, he clarified the date in the flat.
19:33It was Friday, and he says, this is ridiculous.
19:35I was at work.
19:36In any event, he would have finished at 12, so he still hasn't got an alibi whether he's working or not.
19:41You've got to arrest somebody.
19:45In an investigation, you could arrest two or three people, but to arrest somebody is to interview them,
19:51to process them forensically, to obtain an account, to obtain an alibi.
19:56And gone are the days, you can do it in the back of a fag packet.
19:59We've got to do it all professionally.
20:02We've got to do it all justification.
20:04We've got to do everything by the book to secure that job at court.
20:10We have the doll on the duck.
20:12Oh, okay.
20:13Which is a sex aide.
20:14Mm-hm.
20:15He says, he denies having a sexual interest in children, but he likes school uniforms.
20:21He states he likes to have sex with blow-up dolls.
20:24This is the one from two years ago.
20:26Yeah, that's what you hadn't said, yeah.
20:28He's quite open about it, and I'm sure he's going to tell us all about it.
20:30Yeah.
20:31He says he tries to embarrass officers with asking about their...
20:34Spanking.
20:35You won't be able to disclose any of that of yours.
20:38You won't embarrass me, mate.
20:40Right.
20:41Four years upstairs in child abuse, I've seen, this is nothing.
20:46No, that's why I can't do it.
20:47I can't do that kind of stuff.
20:48My objective would be, we get an account off him, we look at the car and the clothing.
21:02So I have the car, the clothing, I've got the E4 fit, but the only problem at the moment
21:08is the car's not sung out to me.
21:10If we do a search this house, and I come up with two leather, two seat covers that are
21:14zebra or leopard print seat covers, do you know what I mean?
21:18But if I haven't got that, then I'm struggling.
21:21I've got to tick all the boxes.
21:23I've got to tick the boxes for the clothes, I've got to tick the boxes for the car, and
21:27the seat covers, to then go for a remand.
21:33So police have issued a warning for school children in the Dunstable and Nathan Buzzard
21:40area after a series of attempts to grab young girls.
21:43Don't talk to strangers, don't go with a stranger.
21:46Definitely don't go near a car or get into a car with a stranger.
21:50If it's happened to your child, you've brushed it off as one of those things, I don't know
21:54why, but report it to the police.
21:55If you think something's not right or you're being followed, then make sure you call us
21:59as quickly as possible.
22:00Have you heard about the duck?
22:03Yeah.
22:04He's got a big, fluffy duck in the bedroom, which, I don't know, put him a metre high,
22:13round thing, big thing.
22:15And he's got a hole at the bottom of it, which is a vibrating vagina.
22:22Detectives from the Major Crime Unit have a man in custody.
22:27The incident itself, yep.
22:28Yep.
22:29We're going to start with the alibi lie, though.
22:30The evil fit.
22:31Put some pressure on him.
22:33To check out their suspect's alibi, the team has called his boss.
22:37Oh, right.
22:38What, we got that day?
22:39Yeah.
22:40Right.
22:41She just broke down saying she knows it was the 21st, Friday the 21st.
22:46He wasn't there.
22:48She doesn't know what he was doing, but definitely knows he wasn't at work on Friday the 21st.
22:53Ah.
22:54Might change these things a little bit.
22:56Where were you on Friday the 21st, mister?
22:58What do you reckon, stretch it out for?
23:01Better buggin' off me.
23:02Better buggin' off me.
23:03If it's longer an hour, I'm getting up and leaving.
23:05Yeah.
23:06I'll tell you by the time, if it's prepared to stay, it's not going to be a long one.
23:11No.
23:12So, just, can we have, um, out for an interview whenever you get a minute?
23:15Yeah.
23:16Lovely, thanks.
23:17All right, cheers.
23:19Before this interview, I gave your solicitor tight disclosure.
23:36Following your client's first interview, inquiries have been made at both of your client's employers
23:41in relation to your client being at work at the time of the incident.
23:45Inquiries have revealed that your client was at neither place of work.
23:50Right.
23:52I was actually off sick, it appears, on that day.
23:56Yes.
23:57Um, I thought it was the week before I was off sick.
24:00Yeah.
24:01In fact, it was about seven o'clock in the morning, and I thought, oh my God, I'm going
24:06to be sick.
24:07And I went up my hall, my toilet seat was down.
24:10I thought, I'm never going to get that seat up before I'm sick.
24:13I was sick in the bath, and as I was sick in the bath, I squirted shit all up the wall
24:17behind me, which made me feel brilliant.
24:20Sounds like a bad morning.
24:22It was a bad morning.
24:24Well, let me ask you a couple of specific questions regarding this.
24:29Am I being persecuted?
24:30Yes, I am.
24:32Have I been arrested because I was arrested two years ago, and they couldn't press any
24:36charges because I hadn't done anything?
24:38Yes, that's the reason I'm here.
24:41That is how I feel about this situation.
24:44Okay.
24:45Did you speak to any ten-year-old girl, in particular, one that was dressed in a football shirt?
24:50Would she have been in my bathroom?
24:53No.
24:54So no, because I didn't go out.
24:56You didn't leave your house at all?
24:58I didn't leave my house.
25:00Once again, must be a pervert.
25:02Brought him in for another time to talk to him about it.
25:05Doesn't matter that last time he hadn't done anything.
25:08Didn't matter that he didn't do anything.
25:09This time, we'll bring him in again next week, because we'll be looking for a four-foot midget with an hump.
25:14Well, with respect, you were arrested simply on suspicion.
25:18And that's...
25:19Yeah, but it'll still go on my police record that I was arrested.
25:24I don't have any further questions to ask.
25:28I'm going to conclude this interview.
25:31If next week, some young girl is abducted from somewhere, we'll come and knock on my fucking door.
25:44And I know you will, because, oh, we'll go through the ve- oh, look, there we go, look.
25:49He lives within 20 miles of the incident.
25:52We'll go and nick him.
25:54I'm sorry, but that is how I feel.
25:56I appreciate that, but I haven't...
25:58And I do want a written apology when all this is over and sorted.
26:02Well, we can put you in touch with the right people.
26:04I've written apology.
26:06You ready, sir?
26:07From the people who have done this to me.
26:13Now what do we do?
26:32I'm going to tag that.
26:34Back to the next door, mate.
26:36Hang on.
26:37Right.
26:38The last thing I want, because I know they won't give me their turn on 50 quid.
26:43Detective Sergeant Blair has returned to the house to see if the search team has found the distinctive animal print car seat cover.
26:50Oh, no, shit.
26:52I feel grubby again.
26:54Once again.
26:55Right, what have we got?
26:56What have we got?
26:57A couple of gym skirts.
26:59There's a DVD containing some schoolgirl pornography.
27:04Seized pretty much the computer.
27:07Pretty much everything that was on your list.
27:09Got some red shirts, t-shirts.
27:11Assorted red tops, shall we say.
27:13Short sleeve tops.
27:14And blue shorts.
27:15Want blue shorts?
27:17I've not seen them out of the bag.
27:19No, I've only seen them folded, but they're blue shorts.
27:21We've found some white trainers which aren't Nike, but could part as being Nike.
27:27Monkey, yeah.
27:28Monkey, yeah.
27:29The vehicle, any...
27:30I've noticed them froze.
27:31Any leopard skin, leopard...
27:32No, not within the house, no.
27:33Other than that, there's no...
27:34There's no...
27:35There's no...
27:36There's no...
27:37It's not...
27:38Yeah.
27:39That don't look like a...
27:40That's an adult, I think.
27:42Kind of going with the torsos.
27:46The torsos look quite underdeveloped, as long as you can see enough of it.
27:52There's loads of these.
27:53Detectives Selena and Annie are accessing images found on their suspect's computer.
27:59Oh, that's obviously a baby, isn't it?
28:00Look how chubby those...
28:01Little those legs are.
28:02Oh, that's obviously a baby, isn't it?
28:03Look how chubby those...
28:04Little those legs are.
28:05Oh, that's obviously a baby, isn't it?
28:06Look how chubby those...
28:07Little those legs are.
28:09These are, um...
28:20Level fours.
28:22Oh, that's obviously a baby, isn't it?
28:23Look how chubby those...
28:26Little those legs are.
28:29These are, um...
28:30Level fours.
28:33Anny's the 14th century,
28:36she's got no breasts but unless you watch them you can't ever describe to someone how horrific
28:56it is you just can't and even if i watch one now and i explain to you what it was you'll be going
29:03oh that's disgusting but i still couldn't give it the reality of what it is
29:09my immediate thought is where's that kid now what they're doing now are they having to do that again
29:17tonight you know is that part of their normal day now that that's what they do have they got out
29:24and you can't save them you can't say because you don't even know who that kid is i think that's
29:29really you can't think too much do you edin do you edin i've seen colleagues cry i've seen colleagues
29:36look at images of children and and have had their own young children and have felt that when they
29:43looked at images of children and and those children being abused they saw their own children and they
29:49would cry and they couldn't they couldn't do it
29:52if you were to ask me to think of some of the images and pictures that i've seen and movies
30:00i may think of a few that might stand out in my mind but i i tend to just block them all out
30:06whether or not that's the right thing to do whether or not it might come back and haunt me in years to
30:11come i don't know but it's something you need your self-preservation you need to protect yourself
30:17those photos were taken in 2004 last access july 2013
30:29i mean for him to find that and chip over it he's done well to get like extreme stuff like that
30:38there you are
30:40if selena can prove a sexual interest in children it could strengthen the case
30:47and increase the chances of him going to prison
30:50right
30:52i'm going to press record in a minute but i just need my pen
30:57oh sorry
30:58yeah
30:59there you go thank you
31:02right as soon as i press ok it should start recording it
31:05okay you've been arrested on suspicion of um
31:14possession and making of indecent images of children
31:17so are you guilty for the offense for what you've been arrested for
31:21making of indecent images no
31:26okay
31:26person who downloads images or prints them off as making them
31:30obviously possession is just
31:32in that case then uh i wish to change that to yes
31:36okay
31:37because obviously i did download
31:38so how would you know what you were looking for
31:41the you you would search
31:44you would just search
31:46yes
31:46okay
31:48and how does when you search what how does it come up
31:52is it just lots of pictures no no
31:55usually it's just file names file names okay
32:01what sort of file names would you search for
32:04um um
32:13hc usually
32:14yeah
32:17basically that was the main you know that's what you would search for
32:21what does that stand for
32:22hardcore
32:24okay
32:26hardcore
32:27obviously just trying to search one day and things came up
32:37so what are you looking for
32:39so what are you looking for before those things come up what are you what were you going
32:42software right okay
32:43okay can you remember when you first started to be talking years
32:48over 10 years or less than 10 years
32:52obviously we're talking about sexual interest in children and how long have you been
32:55how long have you had a sexual interest in children
32:57and what is it that um you're sexually interested in about children
33:09so what do you explain to me
33:12i don't know i couldn't answer that question
33:14who can okay okay so is it something that started when you were young
33:23you don't know
33:27have you ever spoken to anyone about it
33:32have you ever wanted to speak to anyone about it
33:37is that how you feel now so you're very very shiny
33:44right i'm going to go into what i have found so i've written i've written it down
33:53level four is penetrative sexual activity between adults and children
33:59so in your live system you've got 396 images and in your deletes you've got 334
34:08and then level five which is the highest is sadism and bestiality and in your live you have
34:1521 images and then you're deleted you're 40. now they're just images on your videos
34:23you've also got a number of images ranging between where you've got 121 level 4 images videos
34:33of sexual activity with penetrative sexual activity between adults and children i've watched every
34:39every single one of those videos um and it shows young children as little as three um is that
34:51something that you get sexual gratification from
34:54yes okay before that had you any other way of getting a gratification for um your interest no no
35:05so are we saying it was all basically in your head and there's nothing elsewhere okay
35:10you had been arrested for sexual touching you only admitted to the one time now in light of what
35:23we've discovered today and your sexual interest in children is there anything else you want to admit
35:28to no so you only ever touched her once sexually yeah i just find it hard to believe that you've had this
35:44sexual interest in sexual interest in children for so long and you've got a little girl telling me
35:49loads of occasions when you've touched her and yet you're you're only admitting to one
35:56because if you look at the images it suggests
36:00more of a sexual interest in children and i just find it hard to believe that you've only just
36:05touched her the ones okay which kind of leads me on to asking you that should you get bail today
36:16are you able to stop or prevent yourself from purchasing another computer and continuing to
36:22download and decent images and videos yes you think you'll be able to stop yeah would you class
36:31class yourself as a threat or a risk to children would you consider me yes i would yeah no but you
36:41wouldn't yourself no all right we'll end the interview there then
36:46okay
37:05now selena has a confession she must inform the crown prosecution service
37:10it's their decision whether to remand him to prison
37:12okay i'm gonna find cpf now
37:21hello there my name is dc humphries from bedshire police i've got somebody in custody at the moment
37:26for indecent images um he's already on bail for sexual touching a child then i then i looked at
37:33his computers found images which is why i've re-arrested him today the smallest level even the minor touching
37:40can be life affecting to someone i think that's quite hard to understand that that low level what
37:47they think of well it's only touching it's only this it's actually quite um effective throughout
37:53their life so in their relationships in the future how they are with people how they are with strangers
37:58how they are because they're usually people they know and usually family members or friends who do you
38:03trust them um the reason for remand is that the gravity of the sexual offending against children is
38:11quite high now um although he lives on his own i can't i can't be sure that he isn't going to either
38:19go out and commit more contact offenses with children or continue to download and decent images of
38:25children the major crime unit has found no evidence to link their suspect to the attempted child
38:45abductions hello mate uh just update you that could just come out of interview it's um denial and no
38:52comment in relation to danstable incident so that's it really so we're just gonna bail him unless there's
38:59any other instruction but i don't believe there is um with just a few conditions do we know the state
39:05of his phone whether that's been completed or not cheers wait wait before you wing off there's nothing
39:10on his phone only just porn him shagging it blow up doll and things like that you can go and bail him if
39:19long um i was in him i don't know where you want to talk to him again great all right i'll come down
39:27with you you've got no reason to enter bedfordshire have you okay to allow this officer to carry out
39:38further inquiries i'm going to bail you from the police station to come back on the 17th of april
39:42at 10 30 in the morning there are conditions attached to your bail not to come to bedfordshire except for
39:47pre-arranged police or solicitor appointments and not to have any unsupervised access to children
39:52under the the age of 16 or 16 and under if you understand the bail and agree to come back on that
39:58date sign on here for me you'll get a copy of the bail notice to take with you yes
40:04it's a set of keys sergeant yeah thank you
40:15there's a car key missing well that's that's that's your house keys and you asked for uh excuse me
40:21there's a car key missing you've taken the car key off my keys have we got his vehicle i believe that's
40:28been we've seized the vehicle yeah we've seized your vehicle so that's why we got your car key so we
40:32don't have to break into it okay because there's a vehicle involved in this incident so that's why we
40:39seized it we exhausted all lines of inquiry we spoke to everybody that we could possibly speak to
41:02unfortunately there's loads of crimes that are unsolved and will we ever find out who tried to
41:11approach that young girl and or grab her or i i don't think so
41:18i don't think i failed because we did everything we could oh dear another satisfied customer indeed
41:32they think that i'm scum they just put two and two together and made seven
41:45there is no smoke without fire so obviously you know i must be as guilty as sin because i've been
41:51arrested and that's how i feel people look at me even people that don't even know me
41:57i used to go out of an evening and i don't anymore i just keep myself to myself
42:08if there's somebody coming down my road that i think might speak to me i will cross the road
42:15it's always in the back of your head how people are going to judge you
42:19how long would it be before i've got a crowd of people with banners outside putting bricks through
42:31my window whatever the police weren't a bit discreet about this and i've done nothing wrong
42:37with his finger yeah read that again between so intentionally penetrate the vagina of a girl under
42:53the age of 13 with the part of your body name your finger and that penetration is sexual cool
42:57yep done let's hope they're pro system
43:19okay i'm just going to i'm going to caution you and i'm going to read out the charges there's 12 of them
43:25so it's going to be quite a mouthful and then i'll provide you with a copy of what you've been
43:30charged with okay so you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defense if you do not mention
43:35now something i think the real sense of achievement comes at the end of the trial when you've got the
43:4112 members of jury saying that they all agree that he's guilty between the 15th of december and i hope that
43:48he gets a long sentence and when he does come out because invariably he will um he gets put
43:56on the sex offenders register for a very very very long time and that we are able to continuously
44:02monitor him so that he can't hurt any more children two more to go making decent photographs of a child
44:09on the 7th of august 2013 at bedfordshire you made indecent photographs namely 5340 indecent photographs
44:17of children you don't get caught up occasionally but it's moments with me there's usually things that
44:23a mum or a victim or somebody will say and it just clicks with you and you just want to cry because
44:29you just think that is just awful namely 368 indecent moving images of a child
44:36but i think to be honest if i went out i think i'll probably be back in a couple of years i don't
44:40think i'd stay away for long because i think it just you just cover so much you get people put away
44:45for so long it's so rewarding to help a victim move forward and see them now the different person
44:56when a person is charged with enough offenses it falls to me to make a decision whether bail is appropriate
45:00or not um given the nature of the offenses and the fact that it's likely to attract a custodial
45:06sentence the fact that you have continued offending um during the investigation um i feel that you are
45:11risks to society and my decision is to refuse bail um at this time to prevent further offenses being
45:17committed um we're done i'll print off all the the copy of the charge sheet and i'll leave that in
45:21in your property for you there's an exercise yard you can go and get some fresh air there's no one
45:30out there yeah just put them out in the yard thank you annie no let up
45:38do you want another one are you all right i'm fine yeah okay
45:52yeah good really good
46:10i've had enough today i've had enough of the images for the last two days i need a break i'm gonna
46:15pick it back up tomorrow i'm tired and i need a night's sleep without thinking about them
46:22so
46:41so
46:52If you've been affected by the issues raised in the programme,
47:00there's support available online at channel4.com slash support.