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00:00President Donald Trump has reiterated his desire to annex the autonomous region of Greenland from Denmark
00:06Trump said today he thinks it will happen adding that the u.s. Needs Greenland for international security
00:12Well, his comments are sure to have rubbed up NATO Secretary General Mark Ruther the wrong way
00:17He was sat right beside him the two sides holding talks at a time when Europe's security is on the line
00:24With the u.s.'s growing collision with Russia
00:27Well, Trump has been speaking on Putin's latest comments the u.s. Leader said the Russian president made a very promising statement
00:35Well, let's break down the meeting now with a David Townley. He's part of the University of Portsmouth's
00:40Professional military education team David. Thank you so much for joining us on the program great to have you
00:46I first of all just want to get your assessment on that moment during the meeting when Trump insisted that a u.s.
00:52Annexation of Greenland would happen. He said that with we just sat right next to him. I mean, it doesn't get more awkward than that
01:00No, you could see
01:02Ruta was very definitely squirming in his seat and trying his best to
01:07Be pinned down on any position on it
01:09I think he quite deftly pushed it away and said that this was for a discussion outside this particular discussion
01:17but what we see I think is this is a topic that will continue to
01:22Appear in the the American narrative certainly for the at least for the next few months until this conflict is over
01:30Well, Ruta has earned this reputation of being the Trump whisperer
01:34He's had that reputation for a few years now, but this was always going to be a mammoth task for him today meeting Trump
01:41He's walking a very tightrope. He has to stand up for alliance members while also
01:47Keeping Trump on side. Talk to us about the tightrope that Ruta had to walk today
01:53Well, I mean this is a pivotal moment in NATO and European
01:58security what we will find I think from Ruta is
02:02He's using his good relationship that he had with Trump initially during Trump's first administration
02:08When he was a prime minister of the Netherlands what we'll see I think is more likely to
02:16as an attempt for
02:18NATO to stay relevant
02:20But also in particular for the United States to stay within the NATO family now
02:27Whether that is as an active member as it has been in the past or whether the United States will step back
02:35We get to see
02:36Really clearly what comes out of these these discussions
02:40Certainly what will be discussed are NATO member contributions in terms of defense spending which have been increased
02:47Since the invasion of Ukraine in in 2022, but what I think we'll see as well is a determined effort
02:56to ensure that the United States
02:59Stays within that family Ruta said that you know that Trump is responsible for reinvigorating
03:05NATO and I think that that's
03:07Probably a fair assessment. However, I think that there are as many
03:12European security experts and ministers and prime ministers that are
03:19Desperately hoping that that the United States remains committed to NATO and the security of Europe
03:25Well David, how much life does NATO really have we have Trump proposing to annex Canada another NATO?
03:33Member he's also proposing to annex Greenland from Denmark as well as imposing tariffs on
03:39US allies and the EU it really begs the question is NATO dead
03:46No, I think we've seen in the past NATO is adapted to different
03:51changes in a geopolitical
03:53Environment at the end of the Cold War women have thought that it would simply have petered away
03:58But I think that even without
04:01The United States as a partner, although I still think the United States will stay in NATO or be it in a
04:10Less committed role. I think that we'll see NATO will be able to adapt and
04:17Contend with the security issues that it faces
04:20I think is what we will need to see though is a really firm commitment not just
04:27Not just words, but actually actions and from
04:31NATO member states and from the European Union as a wider body
04:37To commit to European security
04:40And I think that that's something that Trump wants to see as well before he makes any decisions
04:45Well, David, I do want to play devil's advocate here just for a little bit
04:49You know Washington and Berlin are the biggest contributors to NATO
04:54The fear, of course as you've mentioned is, you know, the US stepping out of
05:00NATO we have had some analysts suggest that Europe could potentially make up for
05:06The loss of contributions from Washington. Give us your sense on that. Do you think NATO could survive without the US?
05:13Well, I think I think it could
05:16I think I think it could
05:19NATO as an organization could certainly continue
05:22NATO its ability to
05:25offer a
05:27substantial defense of Europe from
05:30any adversary
05:32Will need to
05:34considerably shake up
05:36its
05:37Defense industry base. We heard Ruta mentioned this afternoon that the United States is undoubtedly that you know
05:45Far in advance of what European
05:48Countries are capable of doing in terms of defense production. So we need not just a commitment to
05:55defense spending but also an expansion of the defense base
05:59within the
06:01within Europe, so I think that
06:03We've heard talks of 5% from Trump
06:06We've heard talks from 5% from other nations as well that are really committed to this
06:10So whether we see this as a
06:14Long-term viable project. I think we'll see that over the next couple of years
06:19I think although we will need to look at alternatives should this should this no longer cease to be
06:29An effective security
06:32Organization. Yeah, we'll definitely have to see David. Thank you so much for joining us on the program great to get your insights and analysis
06:39Thanks so much
06:40Thank you