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00:00I love Canada, the words of Donald Trump at the White House in the company of the newly elected Prime Minister, Mark Carney, making his first trip to the White House as leader of the United States, his neighbor to the north, the same Donald Trump, who earlier in the day on his social medium had said, quote, we don't need their cars, we don't need their energy, we don't need their lumber, we don't need anything.
00:26And who then was, as Douglas Herbert, who is sitting here in the studio with us.
00:35That's truth social.
00:37That is truth social.
00:38He posted that about an hour before going into this meeting.
00:40Into this meeting, but as you predicted, it was much more cordial.
00:45Conciliatory, I don't even use the word, Francois.
00:47Listen, there's always the Donald Trump, the rhetoric, and then the reality of what happens when he's actually face to face with his interlocutor.
00:55In this case, as that post which we just took down, the true social post was basically a post citing this extremely, gigantically inflated trade deficit figure between the U.S. and Canada, right?
01:07Really, really a blow to the jugular of Canada.
01:09And then, not suggesting, but saying in that same post essentially that the United States is subsidizing its giant neighbor to the north.
01:16Then you come into this meeting where the two men are sitting face to face and Cardi is stowed faced and he really keeps his composure and he's sitting there listening to all of this.
01:27And Donald Trump, there was a much more almost, you said cordial.
01:31I say conciliatory because the tone was even odd, even on the absurd, the absurdly bombastic issue of making Canada a 51st state.
01:41You know, this has become almost not just a meme, but it's become this sort of surrealist, absurdist theme that they keep bringing up.
01:48On this theme, Cardi gave as good as he got because, you know, Donald Trump was speaking in real estate terms.
01:54And he went on and on repeatedly, droning on about the 51st state thing and what a beautiful thing would be if these two countries erased that what he called an artificial line, that boundary.
02:03It's called a border between two sovereign nations.
02:05But just take it away.
02:07It would be such a beautiful thing.
02:08And Cardi appealing.
02:10Once again, this is where the savviness of this encounter, I think, came in.
02:13Cardi, while speaking firmly and doing what he said on the campaign trail he would do, which is stand up to Trump, while standing up to Trump, he also in a way was conciliating him and reaching out to him and flattering a part of Trump.
02:24Trump's ego saying, as you know, from real estate.
02:27So he's making that connection with Donald Trump.
02:29Here's the savviness.
02:30And saying in the next breath, and as you know from real estate, some things are never for sale.
02:37And then comes the Cardi pivot.
02:39What's the pivot?
02:39In the next breath, he says, the opportunity is in the partnership.
02:45Bang.
02:45That's the message that he came from Ottawa to bring.
02:48The message is, when he starts talking 51st state, you say, yes, I understand real estate terms.
02:55It's not for sale.
02:56Pivot.
02:57Pivot to what you came for.
02:58Making a deal.
03:00These are two people who can sit.
03:01And Donald Trump indicated that he's seen him debate.
03:04He respects this man.
03:06He knows he's clever.
03:07He can do business with him.
03:08And that's what Cardi is essentially messaging to Donald Trump.
03:11You're not going to be our master.
03:13We're not going to be your 51st state.
03:15We're not going to be joint at the hip that way.
03:17But we can be very strong as partners.
03:19And that's what I'm here to do.
03:20If you want to talk to me about that, then I am all ears.
03:23Let's talk.
03:24All right.
03:24Well, let's go to the Canadian capital.
03:26Geneviève Tullier is a professor there at the School of Political Studies at the University of Ottawa.
03:33Thank you for being with us here on France 24.
03:36My pleasure.
03:38Certainly, Mark Carney will score points with citizens back home.
03:43When Donald Trump talked about 51st state and he mouthed the word never before the White House press pool.
03:51But there were also, at times, if we're going into this cold and we don't know much about the topic,
03:57things that sounded a little bit like it was Trump's language.
04:03For instance, he talks about securing the Arctic.
04:06This is Mark Carney.
04:07He talks about securing the Arctic and developing the Arctic.
04:11What did the Canadian prime minister mean?
04:15This is something he talked about during the electoral campaign.
04:18And so the plan of Mark Carney is to invest massively in the economy.
04:22And one way of doing that is to build new infrastructure.
04:25Now, where do you build those infrastructure?
04:27With climate changes, that has a big impact on the north of Canada.
04:31And so those northern areas where it was difficult to go to now are much more accessible.
04:36And there are new threats coming from Russia, coming from China.
04:41And so we have to protect the northern part of the country.
04:45And so that would be a win-win in the sense that you build infrastructure.
04:48Oh, by the way, it's defense infrastructure.
04:50So it helped us to increase our spending in defense, which we badly need if we want to attain NATO targets.
04:59And it pleases also Donald Trump.
05:01And so that is a key factor.
05:04That is a key piece in the Carney plan about how to develop Canada, how to build new investment in the country.
05:11And I'm sure this will be used as a piece of negotiation with Donald Trump.
05:16And Mark Carney, you also said that there are some, there's a quote,
05:22some things about the free trade agreement that currently stands, the USMCA, that will have to change.
05:31Yes, I'm not sure exactly what he's making reference to, because pretty much it's a free trade agreement.
05:37So basically, most of the goods, there are a few exceptions, but most of the goods could cause the border without any tariffs.
05:45I think that what Canadians will want to do is to put in some security measure to avoid new tariffs to be imposed on Canadian goods.
05:53And so what Donald Trump is doing actually hurts the Canadian economy.
05:57And so if we would have new provision of sanctions, for instance, I'm not sure exactly what kind of sanction,
06:03but that's going to be probably presented eventually by the prime minister.
06:08But having those provision to secure a bit more, to protect a bit more the Canadian market in face of treats, as we have currently,
06:17and maybe also targeting some specific sector like the automobile sector, which is so important for Canada.
06:24And now we're seeing some jobs that are lost, maybe a few plants that are partially closing, maybe reallocating in the US.
06:32And so that could be the kind of measure we want to put in place to strengthen the Canadian economy.
06:38Mark Carney is a known figure for years, former governor of the Bank of Canada, former governor of the Bank of England.
06:46Yet this is his first time that he's been elected to public office.
06:53Were there questions over whether he might be a bit ambushed when he was inside the White House?
06:59He's held his own in the end.
07:00Yes. And if you could look at his body language, at the end, when Donald Trump was still talking about the 51st state,
07:08it was not really something that pleased Mark Carney.
07:11And he said also during the electoral campaign that Canada commends respect.
07:16And so he expects the president not to make reference to the 51st state.
07:21It was discussed this morning, but it came from a question from a journalist.
07:25I'm not sure Donald Trump really wanted to bring that topic with him.
07:31Now that being said, yes, Mark Carney, I think all Canadians were kind of hesitant, were unsure, hoped that it would go well.
07:40And I would say so far, so good, so far, so good.
07:44Still, there are a few hours remaining in the meetings.
07:47And so we'll know a bit more at the end of the day if it still holds.
07:52But I think that what we have seen here in Canada, first impression seems to be going well.
07:59Now, everybody in Canada remembers that that was the same thing with Justin Trudeau at the time.
08:04So 10 years ago, the initial relationship with Donald Trump was good.
08:08At the point it deteriorated.
08:09So we hope that it won't happen this time.
08:12And yes, as you said, Mark Carney is very skillful.
08:15So maybe the first time as an elected official.
08:18But he is knowledgeable about those negotiations.
08:22So probably he has a lot of knowledge that would be helpful for him and also for the country.
08:27One final question for you, Genevieve.
08:30At one point, Donald Trump making the pitch for Canada to become the 51st state.
08:33He said you have free military, tremendous health care, and massive tax cuts.
08:41How will that land where you are?
08:45Well, the health care won't pass, that's for sure.
08:48So I think Canadians are laughing when they are hearing that.
08:52Tax cuts, we did have a few tax cuts in the past.
08:55And that has a big impact on the quality of our social program.
08:59So there may be some appetite for some Canadians, but probably not for every Canadian.
09:05And no, surveys after surveys shows that Canada don't want to be Americans and wants to remain Canadian.
09:12So again, we're starting to be used about that.
09:14But for sure, the health care system is not the one that we envy, the American one.
09:19Genevieve Thurier, many thanks for being with us from Ottawa.
09:23Douglas Herbert, one last question.
09:25At the beginning of that press conference, Donald Trump talking about Yemen after two days where we've seen Israeli strikes in succession.
09:33This Tuesday, they hit Sana'a Airport and electric infrastructure.
09:39This in retaliation to Houthi missiles launched on Israel, saying that the Houthis had agreed to stop the missiles.
09:47And talking up, teasing some big announcement that's going to come either Friday or next Monday.
09:53I don't think those two things are related.
09:55But, you know, regarding the Houthis, maybe I misread it here.
09:59It looked like almost as if Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, was taken a little off guard by this announcement,
10:05as if he was hearing for the first time that we're stopping the bombing of the Houthis.
10:09He said, Marco, you're going to get that news out.
10:10You'll tell people.
10:12And there's often that effect with Trump.
10:14He'll say something.
10:15And even his closest advisers are sort of not quite in the know.
10:18Or if they are, it's the first time they're hearing him say it in a particular way.
10:23But, look, it would be because it comes in the context of relentless bombing campaign for the past weeks and months by the United States,
10:31especially which intensified under the Trump administration against the Houthis,
10:34who have been preventing shipping in the region, basically, targeting Western ships at great economic cost and everything.
10:41And within that context, the relentless bombing has been trying to send the message to the Houthis.
10:48We're going to keep going until you stop.
10:50It would surprise me, Francois, not saying you can rule it out,
10:54but it would surprise me if the Houthis all of a sudden put out a press release saying Donald Trump was absolutely right.
11:00We're stopping the bombing at 0800, you know, GMT, whatever.
11:05My hunch is that he was saying something almost as a negotiating tactic, almost to ramp up the pressure on the Houthis.
11:13If you say it, if you will it enough, it will happen.
11:16He's sending a very forceful message to the Houthis.
11:19This is going to get worse before it gets better, unless you stop your bombing in the region.
11:24I will be very interested to hear what the Houthis respond.
11:27But I don't see the Houthis all of a sudden ending a campaign that they have kept up really since, you know,
11:33in what they say is in the name of defending the Palestinian cause since the outbreak of this horrific war in the region back on October 7, 2023.
11:42So you have an announcement and the rhetoric on the one hand out of the White House
11:46in this high-profile Oval Office meeting with the Canadian prime minister,
11:49seemingly coming out of nowhere, a dramatic announcement.
11:52And then you have the reality of what the Houthis are actually going to say.
11:55And like I said, I don't think it's quite the way Donald Trump announced it today.
12:00At least I'd be pleasantly surprised, perhaps, that the Houthis said,
12:03yep, he got it right, no more bombing, and we're stopping everything.
12:07We've agreed to that.
12:08All right, the missiles, which have disrupted shipping in the Red Sea.
12:13In the last hour, a spokesperson for the airport in Yemen's capital, Sana'a,
12:21saying that it's been completely destroyed.
12:24That's a quote because of those Israeli airstrikes that have hit for a second day on Yemen's capital.
12:32Many thanks, Douglas Herbert, for that.
12:35Reminder.
12:36Reminder.