Katy.Tur.Reports.2025 S03 E07
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00:00Good to be with you.
00:06I'm Katie Turr.
00:07Whatever instrument Elon Musk has been using to level the federal workforce, be it a bulldozer
00:13or a wrecking ball, a chainsaw or a hatchet, Donald Trump is now ordering him, as he said
00:19at least, to switch it out for a, quote, scalpel, saying on True Social yesterday that he has
00:24directed his cabinet and Doge to work together on more precise federal job cuts.
00:31So what did it?
00:33The lawsuits hanging over Musk in the administration, the blowback from Trump's own voters, the
00:38hand wringing from some Republican allies in Congress, the polls that say people think
00:43Musk has too much access to everything, the public safety risk of these indiscriminate
00:49firings, cutting and then cutting, recutting and then rehiring critical nuclear safety
00:55staff working on weapons programs, firing and rehiring USDA staff working on the bird
01:01flu outbreak, quote, accidentally canceling and then having to immediately restore Ebola
01:08prevention funding.
01:11The list goes on.
01:13Or was it something that happened at the White House yesterday?
01:17The New York Times just dropped new reporting that details a tense and angry confrontation
01:23between some cabinet members and Elon Musk, quote, Marco Rubio was incensed.
01:30Here he was in the cabinet room of the White House, the secretary of state seated beside
01:37the president and listening to a litany of attacks from the richest man in the world.
01:43Joining us now, NBC News White House correspondent Aaron Gilchrist, New York Times reporter and
01:48MSNBC contributor Teddy Schliefer, MSNBC legal correspondent Lisa Rubin and former RNC communications
01:55director and Republican strategist Doug Hyde.
01:58Doug, I'm looking forward to hear what you have to say.
02:00I figured you might say that, but I want to begin with with Teddy on this because New
02:06York Times reporting.
02:07So I'm going to begin with you.
02:09This this cabinet meeting yesterday sounded pretty explosive.
02:14You have reporting.
02:15We can put some of it up on the screen that says that Elon Musk was saying that Marco
02:20Rubio wasn't going fast enough and firing people.
02:24The State Department, he wasn't doing anything.
02:26He said he was just good on TV with the subtext being that he wasn't good for anything else.
02:32You have Sean Duffy, who's head of transportation, telling Elon Musk, you've got guys going into
02:38my department and they're firing air traffic controllers.
02:42I'm dealing with accidents, jet accidents, deadly accidents.
02:46And you have guys firing air traffic controllers.
02:50This is pretty explosive stuff that The Times is reporting.
02:54What else can you tell us?
02:56Yeah, I mean, this I think why it matters here, Katie, is this appears to be the only
03:03sign or the clearest sign yet that the Trump presidency is not going to be the Musk presidency,
03:09right?
03:10That that Elon has power, obviously, he's not he has not been fired.
03:15He is still in charge of Doge.
03:16He's still there at the White House every single day.
03:19But the Trump administration is comprised of the Trump cabinet.
03:23And if you're Sean Duffy or Marco Rubio or Doug Collins, you're feeling maybe not emboldened,
03:30but satisfied.
03:31And there appears to be a commitment from Trump to protecting his cabinet from sort
03:37of the incursion led by Musk.
03:39So, you know, yes, it's explosive.
03:41They said lots of things in the room.
03:44Yes.
03:45But to me, what I think really matters here is what happens after they leave the room.
03:48And it appears that Elon Musk is no longer unilaterally calling the shots, which it's
03:53felt at times at least some cabinet members like has been the case.
03:57Yeah, but there was also the wrinkle in there that Donald Trump said that if the cabinet
04:01members don't do it, that Elon Musk will end up going and doing it himself anyway.
04:06So right.
04:07Sort of this.
04:08Yeah.
04:09How much of this is lasting?
04:11Yeah, I mean, like, will will a cabinet member be be ousted because they feel like or Elon
04:19Musk feels like Trump feels like that cabinet member has not done enough to enact the Trump
04:24agenda?
04:25That's kind of the worst case scenario for a member of the cabinet.
04:28You know, like, I mean, it is not as if, you know, Elon Musk is leaving tomorrow.
04:32So don't feel too satisfied.
04:36But yes, clearly, if you're a cabinet member, you're feeling better today than you were
04:41yesterday because now it appears like you at least have the chance to do the first cuts.
04:46Maybe Musk will do the second round.
04:48But at times, if you're a cabinet member, it's felt like are you even in charge of the
04:53agency?
04:54Well, I mean, I would would not hold your breath and getting rid of Elon Musk, considering
04:58how much money he has and how much money he can wield, however he sees fit, even against
05:05Donald Trump if he wanted to.
05:06So that, I think, tempers Donald Trump's impulses in that relationship.
05:10Let me play a little bit of Donald Trump yesterday on Elon Musk and the cabinet.
05:14This is presumably after that meeting.
05:19I want the cabinet members to keep good people.
05:21I don't want to see a big cut where a lot of good people are cut.
05:25I want the cabinet members go first.
05:27Keep all the people you want, everybody that you need.
05:31And it would be better if they were there for two years instead of two weeks, because
05:35in two years they'll know the people better.
05:37But I want them to do the best job they can.
05:40Elon and the group are going to be watching them.
05:42And if they can cut, it's better.
05:45And if they don't cut, then Elon will do the cutting.
05:48Aaron, what can you tell us about your reporting from inside this White House?
05:53So Katie, I think what you just played there speaks to the reality on the ground here in
05:58Washington around trying to understand who is in charge and who's making these changes
06:04actually happen.
06:05I think the larger line of thinking has been that Elon Musk and Doge have been going in,
06:09as we've noted many times, with a chainsaw, a sledgehammer, whatever you like, and making
06:13these cuts indiscriminately, just looking at the numbers.
06:16Trying to make sure that spending decreases, trying to make sure that the federal workforce
06:20is smaller, and not taking into account enough who these people are, what they do, how their
06:27lives are being impacted, and things of that nature.
06:29So if you look, for example, at the idea that there have been several agencies that have
06:35fired people and then had to bring those people back.
06:38We know at least the National Nuclear Security Administration couldn't even find some of
06:42the people that it needed to bring back to do the work that it was doing.
06:46Elon Musk acknowledged on more than one occasion that mistakes had been made, that mistakes
06:51would be made, and that he would correct them quickly.
06:54That is not consistent with the Donald Trump that we know.
06:57He's not one to embrace the idea that he might make mistakes.
07:00And so now what we're seeing is very explicitly saying to cabinet secretaries that you know
07:06the people that you need to keep around in order to make sure that you're able to do
07:09the work that your agency is going to continue to do.
07:12He has said to them, you are going to downsize.
07:15And we know that next week the agencies had to submit the first phase of their reorganization
07:19plans and then the second phase of those plans coming in mid-April.
07:24So he very much wants to continue to see a downsizing in budgets and downsizing in workforce.
07:29But it's really putting it on the laps of these secretaries now, saying that they're
07:33responsible ultimately for what happens when it comes to the federal workforce.
07:37And if they're not doing that work in a significant way, downsizing in a significant way, that
07:43Musk and his team could go potentially from a support recommendation role to a more, to
07:50have a role where they have potentially more control.
07:52But we've seen, Katie, for example, the Department of Veterans Affairs, they've been to some
07:57degree transparent about the cuts they've been making, saying this week that they're
08:00going to cut 15% of their workforce, potentially 80,000 employees from the Department of Veterans
08:05Affairs, Katie.
08:07The assumption here is kind of confounding to me, Doug.
08:10The assumption that if you're firing people from the federal workforce, you're going to
08:14somehow save a ton of money, like it's going to be the biggest budget savings that this
08:18country has ever seen just by firing the federal workforce.
08:22It's not.
08:23It's minuscule.
08:24It's the programs that the federal workforce enforces, that the Americans use.
08:30It is Social Security.
08:32It is Medicare.
08:33It is Medicaid.
08:34It is the money that goes into the Pentagon.
08:36Why are they, what is the, why focus so much on right-sizing, on firing federal government
08:44employees?
08:45Well, I think we hear the phrase shock and awe a lot.
08:48What better way, what faster way to shock and awe people than this?
08:52And I think the challenge for the administration here is, you know, we focus a lot about how
08:55this is a Washington, D.C. issue, and sure it is.
08:58About 15% of all federal employees are based in Washington, D.C.
09:02So what's happening in the Trump administration, what's happening in House and Senate Republican
09:07leadership meetings, Democratic ones too, presumably, is folks are going home in recesses
09:11or over weekends, and they're coming back and saying, here's what I heard.
09:15And these are the jobs that are going to be lost in Kansas City and Albuquerque and Charlotte,
09:18North Carolina, what have you.
09:20And that has a real impact on what members are hearing, because they're hearing it directly
09:24from their constituents when they go home.
09:26That always has an impact.
09:28Let me play a little bit of what Republicans are at least saying in public about Elon Musk.
09:33Elon and I are talking regularly, almost daily now about this, so we can coordinate the efforts.
09:39Elon Musk isn't cutting anything.
09:41But if Elon Musk isn't cutting anything, why is he here talking to you tonight?
09:45Because he's helping us uncover all the spending and letting us know where the waste is.
09:51I encouraged him to go as fast as possible, because we're going to lose our guts.
09:55My question is, what can we do?
09:57Where would we go when he uncovers the information?
09:59He just said, let me get it to you, and then you all decide what to do with it.
10:04They're all very publicly on the same page about this, on being behind Elon Musk.
10:08I mean, obviously, there's reporting saying that they're behind the scenes, not happy
10:12about it.
10:13You had The New York Times report with the cabinet secretaries and word that, you know,
10:16Republicans are getting an earful from their constituents.
10:19But boy, if you're a constituent that's unhappy about this, and you look up and you see your
10:23congressman telling a reporter that everything's going great, you must not feel like you're
10:27being heard.
10:28Well, I think we also have fast burns and slow burns, right?
10:31Republican congressional districts, all the members you showed were Republicans.
10:34Their districts are Republican.
10:35Richard Hudson, who you showed, is an old college friend of mine.
10:38I know his district very well.
10:39It's very conservative, very Republican.
10:41A lot of military jobs and veterans jobs there, by the way.
10:45So it's going to be a slower burn there.
10:48The attrition is going to have to happen after time.
10:51What they're hearing isn't necessarily what Democratic offices are hearing.
10:54Is this what they want, though?
10:55I mean, I understand the desire to cut spending.
10:58I get that.
10:59Is this the way Republicans want to do it?
11:01I think in some cases, yes.
11:02In some cases, no.
11:03The process is very important to them here.
11:05Right.
11:06And we hear Donald Trump saying now we need it.
11:08We need to use a scalpel.
11:09Obviously, Elon Musk came out with a chainsaw.
11:12The reality is we probably need a good chef's knife and somebody who knows how to use that.
11:16And one of the frustrations for Republican members of Congress, presumably for Democrats
11:19as well, is Congress doesn't do its job.
11:22They don't pass the appropriations bill, the bills that they need to.
11:24They haven't for generations.
11:26All of this gives the executive branch, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Donald Trump before, Barack
11:31Obama, more power to then do these things that Trump is doing now.
11:35Lisa, legally speaking, there's been a lot of talk about who Elon Musk is in this process.
11:41And you heard one Republican member, Hudson, saying that Elon Musk is not cutting anything.
11:47Why was he there?
11:48And he kind of stumbled and said, oh, he's there to help us.
11:52The title of Elon Musk is so important because this is a litigation issue.
11:57It's gone back and forth again today.
11:58Donald Trump is now saying it's the cabinet secretaries who are going to be making these
12:02cuts.
12:03How does that affect the lawsuits that are currently being filed?
12:07I think it's one more data point, but still, the admission was made at that joint address
12:11to Congress.
12:12And you can count on the plaintiffs in these litigations going before courts and saying
12:16we need expedited discovery to determine who is running Doge, who is issuing orders
12:22either to cabinet secretaries or to lower level staff members at Doge.
12:27We need to understand who's accountable here, because one of the issues, Katie, is whether
12:31Doge is lawfully constituted in the first place.
12:34You and I have talked about this several times on air.
12:37It's the same argument that was used in the Mar-a-Lago case before Judge Cannon to dismiss
12:43that case, that because an agency head is not nominated by a president, confirmed by
12:48a Senate, that that person might not be operating a cabinet department or an agency constitutionally.
12:55That's an argument that various plaintiffs here and lawsuits against Doge are making
12:59before courts.
13:00And so therefore, they're going to want to get their hands on communications that Elon
13:04Musk has had with people and want to understand who's really making the calls here and what
13:09are those calls that are being made.
13:11Because there's a level of opacity here that transcends almost anything we've ever seen
13:15in government decision-making.
13:16Just to go back to the role of Elon Musk, not just in making these cuts, but the role
13:20he is now holding within the Republican Party.
13:25And Teddy, I'm curious your thoughts on this.
13:27Elon Musk is somebody that has so much money that if he single-handedly decides that he
13:31wants to go after you in your congressional district or within your state, he can put
13:36up a real fight.
13:39He has, there's a lot of money there that can make it very difficult for you to survive
13:45a political challenge.
13:46How much is that weighing on these lawmakers as they come out and as they're asked about
13:52Elon Musk, as they're asked about Doge?
13:54Yeah, sure.
13:55I mean, Elon Musk, very notably, his super PAC is still humming hard.
13:59I mean, he spent $4 million right now so far on the Wisconsin Supreme Court election next
14:05month.
14:06He spent over a million dollars for an ad thanking President Trump and just doing general
14:10pro-Trump messaging that aired on Washington DC television this week.
14:16Primaries aren't that far away.
14:17I mean, if you're running for office, running for election, you're probably announcing for
14:22Congress at the end of this year or in the middle of this year.
14:25And if you are right now taking positions that are opposed by Musk and by Doge, the
14:31super PAC is going to be following you.
14:33And I'm not saying they're going to launch 435 congressional primaries, but could they
14:38launch 10?
14:39Sure.
14:40And could Musk put in $10 million into each of those?
14:43And suddenly, if you're a congressional candidate who's thinking about whether or not you want
14:47to be really outwardly aggressive against Elon, maybe you second guess that more than
14:52you would otherwise.
14:54So remember, this is not just a White House staffer.
14:57This is a White House staffer with a super PAC that spent $300 million last cycle.
15:03And those are just the facts.
15:06Last word on this, Doug.
15:07Look, I think when we saw the cabinet meeting, we know when anybody's in a meeting and somebody
15:12else comes from the outside and starts talking about what they need to do, people get on
15:14their phones, whether in that meeting or outside of that meeting, and say, who the hell is
15:18this guy?
15:19Where'd they come from?
15:20I know when I was working in House leadership, we would do that when a guy from the RNC named
15:23Sean Spicer would come in and tell us how to do our jobs.
15:25I'm telling you as a matter of fact that cabinet members are doing that with each other.
15:30Sean Spicer hawking Equifax or something now.
15:33I keep seeing commercials for him on television that have nothing to do with his car shield.
15:37That's what it is.
15:38All right.
15:39Everybody, thank you so much for starting us off on that note.
15:43Still ahead, the Trump presidency is a little more than a month old, but is it already losing
15:48a key constituency?
15:50What block of voters might now be having buyers for Morse?
15:55We do see some slippage.
15:56We will explain it.
15:57And he's not just a governor, Colorado's Jared Polis is also a successful entrepreneur
16:03himself.
16:04What he's warning will happen to small businesses if Donald Trump follows through on his tariff
16:09threats.
16:10First, though, what a brand new jobs report reveals about Doge's sweeping cuts.
16:17We are back in 90 seconds.
16:21The February jobs report is out and U.S. employers added fewer jobs than economists were predicting,
16:27pointing to a slowdown in the labor market.
16:30One hundred and fifty one thousand jobs were added last month.
16:34Unemployment also ticked up to four point one percent.
16:38The report comes as economic forecasts have deteriorated over the last few weeks.
16:43Markets are down and consumer confidence is sinking all on the heels of President Trump's
16:49tariff moves, mass federal layoffs and immigration roundups.
16:55Joining us now, NBC News senior business correspondent Christine Romans and NBC News
16:59senior White House correspondent Garrett Hague.
17:02So, Garrett, I'm going to begin with you because you're out there in the cold and the snow
17:07in Canada.
17:08Talk to me about talk to me about what what you're being told by officials there.
17:13Yeah, look, there's a definite chill in the air here in Toronto, and it's not just because
17:18it's March in Toronto.
17:20Canadians are furious at the United States right now.
17:24They're furious at Donald Trump, not just for the economic impact of these tariffs and
17:28the confusion that the on again, off again nature of them has wrought, but also at this
17:32sense of betrayal that America is their biggest trading partner, biggest ally.
17:37And we shouldn't be, as one person said to me today, stabbing them in the back.
17:41Canada is stabbing back at the United States now.
17:44They've put their own tariffs in place at the federal level, but at the provincial level
17:47of the Canadian equivalent of states.
17:50There's other measures that are being put in place here in Ontario.
17:54The premier is putting an extra 25 percent tax on electricity that's exported across
17:59the border to power homes and businesses in New York and Michigan and Minnesota.
18:04And they're pulling American spirits off the shelves.
18:07Things like bourbon from Kentucky, wines from California aren't available.
18:12Canada's a big, big customer to the tune of about a billion dollars a year in Ontario
18:15alone on those products.
18:17Here's how the premier, Doug Ford, explained his decision to make them unavailable in the
18:21state run liquor stores here.
18:28We're the largest purchaser of alcohol in the entire world.
18:31We have something called the Liquor Control Board of Ontario.
18:36They control all the alcohol.
18:37We've pulled over a billion dollars of alcohol off the shelves.
18:41We're the number one customer to 35 states and 3,600 products.
18:48And so California wines, Kentucky bourbon, Texas vodka, and the list keeps going on.
18:58Katie, it was striking to be in one of those Liquor Control Board stores last night and
19:01walk down this huge row labeled California wines and see nothing but empty shelves.
19:07For what it's worth, the Canadians and some Americans who I talked to shopping there last
19:11night are fully supportive of this.
19:13One of the things that these Trump tariffs have done is create a real bi-Canadian movement
19:18here, a real patriotic kind of rally around the flag moment here in Canada to push back
19:23at their bigger neighbor to the south.
19:25They don't want to be bullied.
19:27They don't want to be pushed around by the United States.
19:29They're looking for ways to kind of show their own muscle, including in this case by just
19:33refusing to even make available American products to buy in a key consumer segment here.
19:39There's a visual for that right there.
19:41Garrett Haig, thank you very much.
19:42I'll let you warm up.
19:43Christine, let's talk about the outlook here.
19:45Today the jobs numbers were a little bit lower than expected.
19:49And this is, remember, it's backward looking.
19:51It's not even counting what we've been experiencing the past few weeks.
19:54And the expectation going forward is that the jobs numbers are going to look even worse.
19:57There are some folks out there predicting a recession.
20:00Jerome Powell, though, wasn't so bleak today.
20:04What's going on?
20:05So those jobs numbers were a little bit less than expected, but still solid.
20:08Four point one percent unemployment rate, still OK.
20:11But you're right.
20:12That's before there were tens of thousands of federal job cuts.
20:15Ten thousand federal job cuts were shown in those numbers.
20:18But there are a lot more since then.
20:19And so we're expecting the federal job part of this to continue to decline.
20:23And there are a lot of economists looking at for every federal job and every federal
20:27contract and every part of the government that's sliced.
20:29There are also private sector, private sector knock on effects, too.
20:33So trying to figure out what the multiplier effect is of those.
20:37And there's just a lot of uncertainty, you know, and uncertainty is the enemy of decisions.
20:42So companies that might be making decisions for hiring in the next couple of months.
20:46Are you going to if you think the tariffs are going to hit you?
20:48So there's a lot of uncertainty.
20:49And then consumers, same thing.
20:51Consumers are feeling the private sector is also not hiring in the same way any longer.
20:55Right.
20:56The private sector has been a good force of hiring for some time now.
21:00I mean, I think we've got several years of net positive private sector hiring.
21:03But again, the uncertainty is the real problem here.
21:06You look at so much of the auto industry that that's the private sector.
21:10They're about to face these these terror tariffs that mean that maybe expansion will have to
21:15slow for now.
21:16Maybe hiring will have to slow for now.
21:17And we can put up, if we can, a little box showing where the market market is.
21:20It was down a little bit earlier today.
21:22We can check out where it is right now.
21:23Donald Trump wants all.
21:25It's up now.
21:26He wants all cars to be made here in the United States.
21:29He doesn't like the back and forth between the parts.
21:32You know, sometimes a car will pass over a border, you know, six, seven, eight, nine,
21:36ten, eleven times before it is fully finished.
21:39He wants that all to happen here.
21:41Is that something that could happen realistically anytime soon?
21:44Not in the short term.
21:45I mean, that's something that could take years to undo.
21:47Remember, he wrote the rules for how those how those parts cross borders.
21:51And that's what makes the U.S. automakers competitive with the other automakers around
21:56the world, who, by the way, also do the same thing in their regions.
22:00So that could take that could take some time.
22:02It's what he wants.
22:03And it could take some time.
22:04Christine Romans, thank you very much.
22:06And coming up, what key group of voters might be starting to have second thoughts about
22:11supporting Donald Trump and the Republicans?
22:14First, though, Colorado Governor Jared Polis joins us on the other side of this break.
22:18What he fears tariffs will do to workers and small business owners in his state of Colorado.
22:27Products from Canada, Mexico and China made up nearly half of Colorado's seventeen billion
22:33dollars in total imports last year.
22:36And if President Trump follows through with his partially paused tariffs against those
22:40same countries, the state would be looking at a one point four billion dollar tax hike
22:45per year.
22:47That is according to analysis by economic research firm Trade Partnership Worldwide.
22:52And no, that estimate does not include the fallout from potential retaliatory tariffs.
22:58Yes, the extra costs would most likely be passed on to consumers.
23:04Joining us now, Democratic governor of Colorado Jared Polis.
23:08Donald Trump says this is a short term pain thing and that it's going to stabilize.
23:14His goal is to get manufacturing back here into the United States.
23:20How do you see this?
23:22Well, look, this is a very dangerous fire he's playing with here, as you talked about
23:28over a billion dollars taken out of the hands of Colorado taxpayers going to the federal
23:33government, the reciprocal tariffs destroying our exports.
23:37By the way, Canada, Mexico are Colorado's biggest trading partners.
23:40Their number one, two and three for almost almost every state in the country for us is
23:43number one and two, half a billion dollars a year of beef exports go to Canada, half
23:48a billion to Mexico.
23:50We have tourists from Mexico and Canada spending money in restaurants and hotels in our state.
23:55This is a huge risk for the economy across the entire country.
23:58I mean, you know, on every front, one of our big issues in Colorado is the cost of housing.
24:02Guess what?
24:03This will increase construction costs by five to ten percent, ten thousand dollars on a
24:07home greater costs ongoing as long as these tariffs remain in place.
24:13You're an entrepreneur.
24:14How do businesses shield themselves?
24:17Can they shield themselves?
24:18And if they can't, what do they do?
24:22You know what?
24:23And that's as bad as even worse.
24:24So in addition to the costs, there's the effect of deterring and preventing investment in
24:28growth.
24:29Right.
24:30While there is all this uncertainty, whether they're on pause, whether they're in, as long
24:33as people don't know and it's at the whim of a very erratic president, it deters and
24:39freezes investment.
24:40Nobody's going to be building new manufacturing here if they don't know if they can export
24:43to Mexico and Canada.
24:44If they're going to build those countries overseas, if they're entering beef purchase
24:48contracts, they're going to buy some of our competitors, Argentinian beef, for example,
24:52instead of Colorado beef, not knowing if that supply is stable for months to come.
24:56So I urge the president to achieve stability here.
24:59Again, I hope that it's lower tariffs.
25:01I hope that these temporary delays go away and we just put something permanent like the
25:06free trade agreement we already have in place and we move on because Mexico and Canada are
25:11important geopolitical partners and economic partners.
25:15And you don't treat your partners in business the way that we've been treating these two
25:18great countries.
25:19I wonder if you see that one.
25:21I wonder if you believe there needs to be a balance here, because I think one of the
25:24reasons that Donald Trump was elected was this residual, this pent up anger from blue
25:30collar workers, the base of people that feel like they were left behind after NAFTA in
25:36the 90s.
25:37And it's been 30 years on build for them.
25:39This anger.
25:40And Donald Trump was able to tap into it.
25:41That's one of the reasons.
25:43They do feel like manufacturing overseas is a problem for them.
25:48They don't feel it's fair.
25:52Is there a way to get our economy back to a place where more things are made here without
25:58inflicting this pain, the pain of tariffs, without trying to upend the global trade system
26:05that is now going on 40 years old?
26:09Absolutely.
26:11It's to expand markets overseas for grown in America, made in America products.
26:17Look, President Biden didn't have a strong trade agenda.
26:20President Obama did.
26:21That's one of the reasons President Obama was so successful, expanding markets in Asia,
26:25Colombia, Europe.
26:26We need to move forward with making sure that America is the very best place to manufacture
26:31products to grow produce for a worldwide market.
26:35And American workers benefit when we can be competitive and do that.
26:39And that's why we need to lean into.
26:41And it's a great time for Democrats to lean into the contrast here.
26:44Let's not threaten Europe.
26:46Let's expand our relationship with Europe to decrease tariffs.
26:48Let's not threaten Canada and Mexico.
26:51Let's bring down tariffs on both sides and expand the opportunity for made in America
26:55products to be sold in other countries.
26:58Let me ask you about veterans, because a lot of veterans in the state of Colorado and the
27:02cuts are going to, the cuts to the VA, the cuts to veterans is obviously affecting your
27:06state.
27:07Can you tell us a little bit of a little bit of a story that was aired by a local station
27:11WUSA over there in Denver?
27:15My job, my goals, my duty since I've been out of the military has been to help people
27:20like me.
27:21Monday, Brett and at least four of his colleagues received this email telling them they were
27:26being let go effective immediately.
27:28I think what bothers me the most is whether you're a Republican or whether you're a Democrat,
27:33we're still human beings.
27:35It's our duty.
27:36And for that to be stripped away from us, like it's unfortunate.
27:38It's not just about me.
27:39It's about everybody that wakes up every morning and decides to come up here and work.
27:51So not just about veterans.
27:55I just happen to be one.
27:57You're West of the Mississippi, so it's KUSA, not WUSA, excuse me, but you can feel that
28:03veteran's emotion there, feeling like, you know, he served his country, he was doing
28:09a good job, and it doesn't matter that he was put out on the street.
28:14There are a lot of Democratic governors who say if you've been laid off from the federal
28:18government, we want to hire you in the state government.
28:22What are you doing?
28:23Kathy Hochul is one of them here in New York.
28:24What are you doing?
28:25Yeah, I mean, look, first of all, for the men and women who proudly wore our nation's
28:31uniform and served, part of that fundamental deal is we've got your back, we're going to
28:35take care of you.
28:36We need to make sure we're not, you know, decreasing service times, increasing waiting
28:40lists.
28:41We've got to meet the needs of our veterans today and tomorrow.
28:44In Colorado, we created a portal, a website.
28:46We have over 500 state positions that are open.
28:49We encourage veterans to apply.
28:52We facilitated contacting both civilian as well as folks that have been laid off with
28:57our unemployment insurance.
28:59This is a big deal across the country, and we need to make sure that we can help make
29:03sure that the talented, dedicated people who continue to serve our nation after they're
29:07retired out of the military or finished their military service are able to continue to give
29:12back and make our country even greater.
29:14Governor Jared Polis, really good to have you.
29:16Thank you for joining us today.
29:17Always a pleasure.
29:21And still ahead, what the White House is now threatening to do to Russia, yes, Russia,
29:26after a massive missile and drone strike on Ukraine.
29:30This is an interesting story.
29:32And they helped him win in November.
29:34But are young voters starting to turn on this administration?
29:39What new poll numbers reveal and what could be behind them?
29:47Could the economic pain that Donald Trump is inflicting in service of tariffs lose him
29:53and Republicans a key voting block?
29:56There are already some signs it could be happening.
29:59Let me explain.
30:00A big reason why Donald Trump won the White House was was support from young men of Generation
30:06Z activated a little bit older than this kid, activated by Trump's machismo and political
30:11incorrectness, but also by his economic profile.
30:15They consider themselves high risk hustlers.
30:18That's how pollster John Della Volpe told told it to Pucks Peter Hamby, quote, Gen Z
30:24men who are more likely than their peers to bet on sports, invest in stocks and dabble
30:29in crypto.
30:31Their financial mindset is shaped by the belief that playing it safe leads to economic stagnation.
30:38But as both crypto and the stock market shudder and prices for things like eggs skyrocket,
30:44Trump is losing approval among these voters.
30:47Joining us now, founding partner at Puck and host of Snapchat's Good Luck America, Peter
30:52Hamby.
30:53Peter, it is good to see you.
30:54It has been a long time.
30:55Good to see you, Katie.
30:58Explain this.
30:59The Gen Z men, the assumption is that they're firmly behind Donald Trump.
31:03What's going on?
31:04I think you actually defined that group pretty well.
31:08I think you and I both have been on the road and talked to a lot of voters, all ages, races,
31:13genders.
31:14There's the assumption, though, maybe among Democrats on the left, journalists, perhaps,
31:19that all young men are red hat wearing anti-woke UFC fans who like Trump because he tells it
31:26like it is.
31:27But as you said, that's part of it.
31:29I spent so much of last year out in the swing states talking to younger voters of all kinds.
31:34The economic insecurity angle is very important.
31:38This is a generation, no matter the gender, that came up during the pandemic.
31:42Their biggest fear is access to the economy.
31:45If you look at polls, younger people are more likely to say it's not just the cost of living,
31:50it's also jobs, than older generations are.
31:53But John DelVolpe's polling is very smart on this.
31:57He's doing a monthly tracking poll.
31:58He's the Harvard Youth Pollster, kind of the gold standard.
32:02He basically found that there's a subset of young men, he sort of categorizes them this
32:07way, they're more likely to gamble crypto, stock market, et cetera, because they don't
32:11see a path to wealth, to owning a house, to owning a car even, in the way that previous
32:17generations did.
32:18And so they're more willing to take risks.
32:20And look, if you look at John's polling, Trump's approval rating among young men overall is
32:26pretty steady, Katie, but his approval rating on the economy has dropped 14 points between
32:32January and February.
32:33His approval rating on inflation has dropped 15 points among young men between January
32:38and February.
32:39So if you look under the hood in polling at these economy numbers, that's true across
32:43all ages, but it can kind of be a canary in the coal mine for larger problems with his
32:49approval rating, which we see are going down.
32:51But I think the big picture here is young people, young men in particular, are giving
32:56Trump the benefit of the doubt overall, they like him, they want him to succeed, but the
33:00economy number is really bad because they're looking at the portfolios in their wallets.
33:04Yeah.
33:05What does that benefit of the doubt run out?
33:07Is there a bottom?
33:08Is there a number that where it gets too low and Donald Trump can't make a comeback
33:14from it?
33:15If his overall approval ratings among young men like start to drop, I think that will
33:19mirror larger approval ratings among all men and they will start to go down.
33:23Donald Trump's approval rating is not great.
33:25I think like the whole political universe right now is sort of frozen in this moment.
33:29They think Trump is all powerful and he will be here forever.
33:32Presidents come in very hot and popular and they're popular until they're not.
33:37Joe Biden at this time was plus 15 net fave.
33:40We saw what happened with his approval rating later and then go back to George Bush or Jimmy
33:44Carter or Barack Obama, whoever.
33:47And Donald Trump is starting out from a pretty low approval rating.
33:51So I think the bottom line, I talked to one Republican strategist about this, who's working
33:54on some Senate and governor's races for next year.
33:57His take was just that people want to see competence from Donald Trump on the economy.
34:01Again, it's not just culture war stuff for young men.
34:04They want to see results for a lot of these voters.
34:06This was their first election and they took a chance on Trump or they saw for the first
34:10time after the pandemic, the cost of living wasn't bad, wasn't good.
34:16Hard to find a house, hard to get a job, et cetera.
34:18He's going to be our guy, but he needs to show results.
34:20I'm not saying it has to happen right now, but if we get into the summertime and people's
34:26crypto wallets aren't great, I have a feeling Donald Trump's going to feel that in his polling
34:31too.
34:32Let me ask you about some of the other canaries in the coal mine here.
34:35You talk about some of the bro podcasters, you know, the just asking question podcasters.
34:40And you also mentioned Dave Portnoy of Barstool Sports and that he's not such a, you can't
34:48paint him with an easy brush to say that he's just a Donald Trump supporter, although he
34:52did vote for Donald Trump and that he released this tweet and this could mean something.
34:58Why is the release of the Epstein list always a bleep show, he says?
35:02What's the point of booting out illegals and criminals while somehow becoming a safe
35:06haven for the Tate brothers?
35:08Why is crypto in the toilet if Trump is crypto king?
35:11How far does Tesla stock have to crash before Elon goes back to work?
35:16Tell me about Portnoy's influence here.
35:19I use Portnoy in my piece as a good example of, I think, a thing that again, Democrats
35:23miss about the quote unquote bro vote, which I think is a pejorative.
35:27I agree with John Fetterman on that actually only turns people off.
35:30But look, I listen to a few Barstool podcasts, Katie, I have two Washington Commanders Barstool
35:35t-shirts.
35:37He's not just a red hat wearing Trump guy.
35:40Dave Portnoy is a role model to a lot of younger people.
35:43He's a millennial.
35:44He's not Gen Z.
35:45He's transparent.
35:46He built his company from nothing.
35:47He's funny.
35:48Yes, he doesn't like political correctness.
35:49Yes, he voted for Donald Trump.
35:51But he was also, you know, he came out against the Dobbs decision.
35:54And so I used him as an example of, a lot of people sent me that very tweet and said,
35:59oh, my gosh, is Trump losing the bros?
36:00I mean, I think Dave Portnoy is a good example of a kind of younger male Trump voter that
36:06isn't full blown culture war.
36:07They don't care about the Tate brothers.
36:09They don't care about the Epstein files.
36:11You know, they do care about money and making it in the world.
36:16And he's not Theo Vaughn.
36:17He's not Joe Rogan.
36:18He's not Clay Travis.
36:20He's just a guy that young people looked up to.
36:21He's adjacent to politics, but not of it.
36:24And so I thought that tweet was a good example of what we're talking about.
36:27Portnoy, and he said this out loud, is giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, too.
36:31But he said this on Fox Business the other day.
36:33He wants to see his stocks go up and his wallet fatter.
36:38And I think a lot of young men would probably agree with that.
36:41I also think one thing to watch is, as you mentioned, he wasn't a fan of the overturning
36:45of Roe v. Wade.
36:46There is an inherent tension there because a lot of, you know, that category of voters,
36:50not necessarily the most culturally conservative voters.
36:53All right.
36:55That shows up in polling, Katie.
36:57I mean, young Gen Z men, like, they believe in climate change.
37:01They don't care as much about the abortion wars that older, you know, older generations
37:06do.
37:07They do care about practical issues and making it in the world.
37:10And not being politically correct, you could add that to it.
37:12Peter Hamby, thank you very much for joining us.
37:15Please do come back.
37:16Coming up next, after pausing aid to Ukraine, President Trump is now threatening Russia.
37:21What he says he'll do if the Kremlin doesn't come to an agreement on a ceasefire.
37:29Exactly one week after President Trump and Vice President Vance berated Ukrainian President
37:34Zelensky for not, in their telling, wanting peace as much as Vladimir Putin, President
37:39Trump is now threatening Russia, warning of, quote, large scale sanctions and tariffs against
37:45Russia if Putin does not come to the table.
37:48Joining us now, NBC News Chief International Correspondent Keir Simmons.
37:51So Keir, what's the view from there?
37:55Well, I think very likely the Kremlin is as confused as many people.
38:01I mean, really, what we're seeing today as on Russia and Ukraine is on so many issues
38:07are two Trumps.
38:08You mentioned, Katie, there President Trump threatening Russia.
38:13But on the other hand, he also said today in the Oval Office that he finds Russia easier
38:17to negotiate with than Ukraine.
38:20What we're hearing from those who know the Kremlin well here is that Russia is not hurrying,
38:26despite President Putin, President Trump's wanting a quick deal.
38:30Russia is not hurrying toward a kind of a meeting or any kind of a deal.
38:34Take a listen to what the Foreign Ministry spokeswoman told us just a few days ago.
38:40What result does Russia want to achieve?
38:42I think that it's a normal situation when you are operating between two big countries
38:50which have lots of common interests, because that is the will of US citizens to establish
39:02comprehensive contacts.
39:06How quickly should we expect there to be a summit, if there is one, between President
39:10Trump and President Putin?
39:12How soon do you think that might happen?
39:13It depends on the both sides and the speed of the both sides.
39:19Is Russia in a hurry?
39:20We are not in a hurry, but we are ready.
39:27And Katie, talking to ordinary Russians, that's what you find, that on the one hand, they
39:30say they do want peace, but on the other hand, not at any price.
39:36One for example is saying everything rests on Zelensky, not on Putin, not prepared to
39:40criticize Putin at all.
39:42Of course, it is illegal to criticize the war here, Katie.
39:47Keir Simmons, good point.
39:48Keir, thank you very much.
39:49And one last thing before we go.
39:50Last week, we watched Secretary of State Marco Rubio sink into the couch.
39:54You saw it, as President Trump and Vice President Vance argued, berated Ukrainian President
39:59Zelensky.
40:00And it reminded us of this moment back from 2014.
40:06When the Soviet Union fell in the early 1990s, Ukraine was left with the world's third largest
40:12stockpile of tactical nuclear weapons and strategic nuclear weapons on the planet.
40:18But they signed this agreement with the United States, the United Kingdom, and Russia that
40:26basically said, if you give up your nuclear weapons, we, these three countries that signed
40:31to this, will provide for your defense and assure you of your defense.
40:35And so Ukraine did that.
40:36They gave up these weapons.
40:38Well now, this was signed in 1994, 20 years later, one of the three countries that signed
40:44that agreement hasn't just not provided for their defense, they actually invaded them.
40:48And I want to make a point on this for a second.
40:51Think about if you're one of these other countries around the world right now that feels threatened
40:54by your neighbors.
40:56And the United States and the rest of the world are going to you and saying, listen,
40:59don't develop nuclear weapons.
41:01Don't develop nuclear weapons, South Korea.
41:03Don't develop nuclear weapons, Japan.
41:05Don't develop nuclear weapons, Saudi Arabia.
41:08We will protect you.
41:09We will watch out for you.
41:11What kind of lesson do you think this instance sends to them?
41:16I think the message this is sending to many nations around the world is, perhaps we can
41:20no longer count on the security promises made by the free world.
41:25Perhaps we need to start looking out for ourselves.
41:28And that's why the Ukrainian situation is so much more important than simply what's
41:31happening in Europe.
41:32And this has implications around the world.