In part 2 of the Tell Me Why podcast episode on holistic psychology, Devika Mankani, Licensed Psychologist, discussed the importance of having conversations and communicating with children.
Anticipate conversations and developmental phases so your kids know they can approach you when need be, says Devika
Devika: Root causes of certain diagnoses can be nutritional deficiencies or environmental toxins that manifest in certain behaviors
It’s good for children to have different parenting styles as long as they don’t see a lot of unresolved conflict, says Devika
Devika: I use the ‘roses and thorns’ approach with my kids to give them a chance to share the good and the bad in their day
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Anticipate conversations and developmental phases so your kids know they can approach you when need be, says Devika
Devika: Root causes of certain diagnoses can be nutritional deficiencies or environmental toxins that manifest in certain behaviors
It’s good for children to have different parenting styles as long as they don’t see a lot of unresolved conflict, says Devika
Devika: I use the ‘roses and thorns’ approach with my kids to give them a chance to share the good and the bad in their day
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
Subscribe to Gulf News on YouTube and watch more of our videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/GulfNewsTV
#UAEnews #podcast #children
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00:00It's good for the children to have different parenting styles as long as they don't see a whole
00:06lot of unresolved conflict. Conflict is not bad, but if they see unresolved conflict again and
00:12again and again, it's very confusing for children, right? So if they see the conflict, they see
00:17resolution, then they're more open to think and feel that a difference of opinion is fine. It
00:23doesn't lead to trauma and a lot of disruption in our life. But, you know, they might even say,
00:30here we go again, there's mom and dad, you know, disagreeing, but we trust that they will figure
00:35it out. And children need to see that versus the same parenting style, right? So that's the first
00:42thing that I think is important to establish is, fine, it doesn't matter that your parenting styles
00:46are different, but let's start to look at those as well, right? So where does it come from,
00:50usually from family of origin. So he might say, well, I was raised this way,
00:56or even the opposite. I never had that. And so that's why I want to do it.
01:05It's interesting that you mentioned counselors, because I did have a counselor in school, but I've
01:09also, I think now that you mentioned it, it makes sense. It was probably that I needed more time with
01:15my parents and bless them. I mean, they did everything they could. And at the time, there
01:19wasn't that awareness, there wasn't that education. And they do say that today. And they're
01:24trying to do it differently with their grandchildren, my nieces. So their approach
01:29has changed. And you can tell that it was just the lack of resources and the lack of education
01:34at the time. And I don't blame them at all. But I do feel like nowadays, it shouldn't be taboo
01:41anymore. Yes, shouldn't be something that I'm ashamed of, or that I wouldn't do for my child,
01:46I actually want to take them, I will spend the time with them. But I also want someone like a
01:51third party, that they won't be afraid to tell anything, right, you know, because there is still
01:57that sense that, oh, she's my mom, or that they're my parents. So there is that shyness when when
02:03they want to share certain things. But But yeah, I think that's the main thing that I feel like
02:08it shouldn't be taboo anymore. Yeah, kids need so much more from us. And yeah, it's time that we
02:13give them that. Absolutely. And I also I try to, to work with parents as well to say, look, let's
02:18try and anticipate what's going on developmentally, so that you bring it up first. And so they've
02:25already heard the words from you. And that will help them to bring some to bring up something
02:31related to that topic, whether it's an adolescent milestone, or whether it's something that's
02:35happening socially at school, just to be able to talk about it and ask the questions directly and
02:41explicitly. And they might give you an eye roll and say, Oh, that, you know, Mom, Dad, I don't
02:45talk about that. But at least you've opened that door to say, I know, and I know that you know,
02:51that I know. So if something comes up, it's okay for us to discuss it, because I'm demonstrating
02:56and modeling that it's okay for us to discuss this, right. So, you know, there's a joke about
03:00the birds and the bees. Have you heard? Of course, Dad says, Let's talk about the birds and the bees.
03:06And son says, Sure, Dad, what do you want to know? Exactly, because the son can easily teach
03:11you. They know, they know everything. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But it's nice. I mean, in a way,
03:16you're saying that we should be able to create that safe space for our kids so that they know
03:22that, if anything, they can easily approach us. And that it's it's safe enough for them to come
03:28and talk to us that, you know what, I'm here. If you ever want to talk about it, I'm available.
03:33Yeah. You mentioned developmental issues, and you mentioned that you you go back to the parents,
03:41what are some of these developmental issues, like the common ones that you've seen
03:45in cases without revealing too much, obviously? And how was it rectified? I mean, if you can give
03:51us like examples? Yeah, I mean, like, there's, I don't specialize in developmental delays,
03:56I refer out to specialists for that. But some of the common ones are sort of
04:00more general pervasive developmental delays. ADD and ADHD are quite, I joke, sometimes I say
04:08they're quite popular, common, but also quite popular in the sense that sometimes there's a
04:15diagnosis that that I don't always believe is necessary, that there's other things that we
04:20need to work on. And that's just one manifestation of behavior, but but it needs a lot more.
04:25And I think the root cause of some of these things is spreading a little bit more as well,
04:30because we're all dealing with things like nutritional deficiencies, environmental toxins,
04:36and these are all things that are taking a toll on the mind and the body, right? So that does
04:40manifest in behaviors and things, you know, that are disruptive. Tech distractions can affect sleep,
04:48sleep can look like, sleep deprivation can look like ADD and ADHD, even in fully grown,
04:53well-functioning adults. So a lot of it is lifestyle, but a lot of it is also just organic
04:59changes in the brain that need to be addressed. And there's, there's many different ways of
05:04addressing them. But, but I usually refer out to the specialists for that. And usually the school
05:10and the parents and the specialists work as a team around the child to make sure that they get
05:16everything that they need as early as possible, because we know that's critical. Okay.
05:21My last question, before we get into the listeners' questions, do you feel like you
05:27could apply that to your family and your kids? Because a lot of, like, my uncle is a doctor and
05:32he says, you know, I can treat all the patients in the world, but then when it comes to my family,
05:36it's like, I'm, I no longer know what to do. Do you feel the same way? Like, do you feel like
05:41you can't do that? You can, can you apply a lot of the things that you preach? Yeah, that's a good
05:46question. I try. Okay. I try my best. I have a lot of printouts and a lot of family meetings and
05:53all of that stuff, but I forget. But I also have my therapist. Okay. And, and that's a rule. I
05:59think therapists should have therapists no matter what, because, because it's just, it's a good way
06:03to make sure that you, you know, everyone has blind spots. It's a way to make sure that we're
06:08not missing things. And I know that I'm certainly not always right when it comes to my parenting
06:13approach and how I deal with the situation. And it depends on how full or, or empty my battery is
06:18on the day and how we're all interacting with each other. So I try. And sometimes, you know,
06:23they look at me if I say kids, you know, it's time to look at me, they get this, the worksheet,
06:27and they're like, okay, it's that time. It's that kind of day. It's that 10 minutes or 15 minutes.
06:36But sometimes they go, yay. Okay, let's do that. Because I have something to say. And I want to,
06:40you know, I want to say, so one of the things that we try to do as often as possible is roses
06:45and thorns. Okay, so tell me about your day usually gets you nothing, right? Of course, good, bad, or
06:51nothing, or sometimes even no response, right? That's the worst. That's really like,
06:56so we say, okay, so tell us about your roses and thorns. So what were the roses in the day? What
07:01were the thorns in the day? And it's a way to just embrace the fact that the day doesn't have to be
07:05perfect. It's never going to be perfect. But there's good things that happen. And there are things that
07:10go, you know, with the rose, which is the thorns, and let's just talk about them. So we can maybe
07:14put our heads together and find a solution. And maybe not, maybe it's just a thorn, and someone
07:18said something and, and it felt bad. And we just leave it at that. Yeah. But it's a way I like that
07:24technique. And I learned that from a friend, Dr. Christopher Willard, at Harvard Medical School,
07:30who's a professor, and he's written many books. And he has really, really nice, little tips and
07:36insights on how to deal with parenting issues. And so that was something that really stuck with
07:41me. I said, thanks for that. But that that helps even, I mean, with adult relationships, right?
07:46You just kind of say, okay, how was the trip, roses and thorns? How is this project at work?
07:51What are the roses? And what are the thorns? And it's a way to just give a balanced perspective.
07:56Okay. So what's your advice for families, just like if you have one simple advice for families
08:02who may not have kids yet, and for families that do have kids? One piece of advice. That's,
08:08it's a tricky one. Yeah. Um, I think that you can solve a lot of the problems that that you encounter
08:18that we all encounter. If you try a couple of things, and and one of my favorite F words is
08:25friendship, right? If you treat each other more like friends, you're more likely to get to
08:30resolution, rather than sometimes we throw the friendship out, the formality out. And, and, you
08:37know, that whole business of speak your mind, even if it hurts. I don't believe in that, right? I think
08:43that you should be able to speak your mind, but you speak your mind in a way that is respectful
08:47of the other person's feelings as well. Because we know from the research that if the same
08:52conversation you started with a softer startup, you get further than if you started off with
08:58yelling and screaming, because then all the defenses are up, the doors are shut, basically
09:03talking to yourself. Right. So I think that the friendship and and the formality, even when it
09:09comes to conflict, I mean, I say formality, but I don't mean sort of, you know, being restrictive
09:14and formal in that way. But I mean, just being respective in a way that you would with a friend
09:18is probably the most important foundation when it comes to dealing with things that come up.
09:26Yeah, I think humor is a really big one. I think when you can laugh at yourself, not at the other
09:32person, or I always say it's only a joke if both people are laughing. Right. But using humor through
09:36a situation can just help. I think that those are probably some of the more, the easier
09:46things that are not so theoretical, but then of course, there's theories around skills.
09:51And I think it's important at some point to have a family vision, to discuss what's important to
09:56you to answer the big questions first, and then translate those into the smaller day to day pieces
10:02and try and put them together with a, with a therapist, with a coach, even with a few other
10:08families come together and say, you know, what are some things that we think we'd like as a vision
10:12for us? I like that. I like that. Okay, you're a busy woman. I know that. But we will just ask
10:17you a couple of questions that were sent in by listeners. And I think they're really good,
10:22because they go hand in hand with a lot of the things that you spoke about today, especially
10:26when it comes to families with kids. So we've kept them anonymous, just, you know, to preserve their,
10:32their, you know, just their identity and like, not to make it awkward for them.
10:40We've been married for more than eight years. We have kids and we were high school sweethearts.
10:45Lately, it feels like we have nothing in common. In fact,
10:48we were best friends once upon a time. Can our relationship be salvaged?
10:55This is a tough one, though, that's it's a tough one, just because I feel like I need
10:59more context and just a little more of the background, but it's a it's a common situation.
11:06It's not uncommon to hear just that, that description of where we are right now.
11:13And so what that brings to mind is a little bit around the need, the human need that we all have
11:21for a combination of familiarity and novelty, right? So we have that those needs within us,
11:30and they can seem like conflicting needs. But those are those are relationship needs,
11:35those are human needs, individual needs. So the sense that there's comfort and familiarity in
11:41the things in the life that we have as we know it that we need. But at the same time, too much of
11:45that can be a little bit boring, right? And I'm not I don't know if that's the case here, but I'm
11:50just speaking in general terms. So how do you combine that with novelty, where you have new
11:57experiences, because that creates a chemical response, it changes your biochemistry, when you
12:02go out, you do things together, and you have fun experiences, or you have new experiences,
12:07or deep experiences together, right? And that's part of the growth need as well,
12:12that comes with the novelty. So I'd be interested to see and to know a little bit more about what's
12:18the context. Has there been a lot of conflict? If there has, then maybe it's time to look at
12:24at learning tools to resolve that conflict. Sometimes it's just a kind of drifting that
12:29happens. And that's not uncommon as well. We just, you know, people will say, no, no problem,
12:34we've just drifted. And but but even within that, there's roots, usually, the roots are usually
12:40around, have we found that it's easier to live parallel lives, than it is to come together and
12:47build shared meaning and build some kind of common goal, which is a major bridge that keeps a lot of
12:54families together, they have a common goal. Sometimes it's religion, sometimes it's, it's,
12:59it's a business that they're running. And sometimes it's just a family vision that they hold on to
13:04that they've defined, and they keep revisiting again and again. But it takes work. And if you
13:09just let it go, then it's true, you can just drift and drift. And then before you know it,
13:13you're too far apart to hear each other. Right, right. I think this question, as you said, is,
13:19I mean, this idea is very common, or this issue is very common, because I have heard before where
13:26people are like, Oh, but we've known each other for years. But I mean, there is truth to that
13:31statement. But then you've changed. Yes, drastically. The person you you're married to
13:37changed from the first job that he was in to the second job to getting the first child to,
13:43you know, you've been through so much that has changed you, you are not the same person that
13:48you were in high school, or where whenever you guys fell in love, and it's you just need to get
13:54to know each other. I feel like they just don't know each other anymore. Yeah, I feel like she
13:58says that their best friends or this person says, you know, we were best friends once upon a time
14:03is because you guys are no longer friends. And you mentioned that your favorite f word
14:07friendship, they're no longer friends, they, they don't know anything about each other.
14:12Even though they've changed, their interests have changed, their priorities have changed,
14:16their goals have changed, their personal goals have changed. And, and I think it's exactly what
14:22you mentioned. I mean, I'm just adding on because I've heard this issue over and over again with
14:26just friends. I mean, I'm not a psychologist, but like just people talking about these things. And
14:31it is a common issue. And yeah, yeah, it needs a lot of work. As you said, it needs work,
14:35it needs constant work. And that's, it's not something that that should ever end. And it's
14:42good. I think that we change and you know, it just makes things more interesting. Yes. I don't want
14:47to be the same person that I was. Yeah. And maybe I change in ways that that are not easy to be with.
14:52But let's get to the bottom of that as well. Kind of, you know, that's the kind of conversation
14:55that comes up. And in the program, we talk about the sound relationship house and in the couples
15:01program that I run, which is built on the foundations of trust and commitment. But then
15:06within that, there's different floors. And we explore the different floors and the levels. And
15:12there's things like knowing each other's worlds. How do you do that? Because sometimes when you
15:18live together, you just assume that things are the same in each other's worlds. And so sometimes
15:23we'll start with very simple questions. What's your favorite meal? What's your favorite color?
15:26What's your favorite? I don't know who's your favorite actor right now, all those kinds of
15:29things. And just the lack of information from each person around that shocks them a little bit. They
15:34go, I had no idea. I thought that you love shawarma every Friday. Exactly. No, I haven't
15:39eaten shawarma every Friday in three years. You haven't noticed? No. And so it's, it's building
15:43an awareness on that level. That's a very day to day level. And then once you get that going,
15:49then we start to talk more about, you know, meaning and purpose in through the relationship
15:56as well, right? Because relationships have purpose, families have a purpose. But there's a
16:02lot of introspection that goes along with that. And a lot of activities that I think are useful
16:08in those conversations. So sometimes, you know, we have to look at things like, what are your core
16:14areas or your core needs right now? Right. And are they different from the past? Because if my core
16:20needs have changed, and I haven't expressed that to my partner, and they think that they're
16:24fulfilling that, but I'm not feeling fulfilled, isn't it my job to bring that out and to have
16:29that conversation. But sometimes there's a socialization process that we know is more
16:34common to females. But sometimes it's family based, sometimes it's culturally based, to just not ask
16:41and assume that I've if I've said it once, and that's it. Or that you should be able to tell
16:46one of the most dangerous statements that I hear couples make to each other is, you should know
16:51that you should have known or you should know that by now. Yes. Okay, you know, if I was a referee,
16:57I would have a whistle and a red flag. Yeah, not allowed. Yeah, not allowed. We need to back up.
17:03Absolutely. And just then that's why it's ongoing. Because listening is important, but so is
17:09expressing yourself in a way that gets your needs met in a way that's, you know, absolutely.
17:15That's easier for your partner. Absolutely. Okay, next one. I think it's related to the first one.
17:21So it's a similar one, but we no longer have anything to speak about other than the kids.
17:26I feel like when the kids are off to college, we'll lose that last thing we have in common.
17:31And that was just that's heartbreaking. I feel like I do fear getting into that because I have
17:38seen, you know, culturally as well, like our the older generations, you see that with them, you know,
17:44they're old couples, they're living together. But I mean, their life was their kid, the kids consumed
17:49every aspect of their life. And when their kids are off, they're just left with nothing. Yeah.
17:55I just, I don't know, I found that heartbreaking. Yeah, it is. And that's that's a tricky one.
18:00Because when your identity is anchored in just one thing, any one thing, and that changes,
18:07as it should, then it can leave a void, right? So I usually say, Okay, well, you know, what are the
18:13different areas, so we'd kind of draw this wheel of life, or a circle of life and start to look at
18:18each different section, so that you're not anchored in just one piece of that circle.
18:25But there's other things around you that that have meaning as well. Because then it's it's
18:30that's tragic, to just take everything away at once. And that might be a primary
18:36focus or primary sense of meaning. And that's okay, which is having your children and then
18:41they go off and you feel like there is still a big void. But it's important to give time and
18:46sort of priority to at least I usually say at least three, if you can have at least three other
18:52things that you know, you that sort of bring you a combination of joy, purpose, and some kind of
18:59satisfaction and not a kind of, you know, not in a hedonistic kind of way, but just
19:06satisfaction that is something that you feel like you enjoy, and it's good for you, right? So that's
19:12actually a transition as well, where we say, Okay, well, life's going to change. Are you ready for
19:17that change? And usually it's like, No, I mean, I think about it, my children are very young, but I
19:20still think about it. And I'm like, I'm going to pack up and I'm going to go with them. And I know
19:24they're going to be like, No, mom, that's not happening. You know, but, but to be able to have
19:31it, I don't know if I want to call it plan B or C. But it's, it's, it's all alternative identities
19:38that are anchored within you, but not just on one external thing.
19:42Yeah, yeah, I it's, it broke my heart, because I saw this happen with my mother, my mother,
19:48her, she put her life and soul into, I mean, the house. I mean, she loves my father dearly, but
19:53into the house to us, and her job, when then my brother and I got married, we're out of the house.
19:59And when we when we were off to study, and then after that, she retired. And she was left with
20:04this huge void. And I mean, all I could say was, Don't you have any hobbies? Like, don't you want
20:11to do anything? And it was so difficult for her to find her way. I mean, it's been five years,
20:18and she's still having difficulty since she retired. And she's still having difficulty
20:22finding, you know, a purpose or trying to fill that void. Yeah, five years later after, you know,
20:29because she put her heart and soul into her job and into her career. So when that went out the
20:35window as well, it was very difficult. That's why this broke my heart, because I saw it happen with
20:40my mother. And it was it was very difficult on all of us, because we all had that sense of
20:44responsibility to make her feel better and to, to try to be there for her as much as possible,
20:49so that she doesn't feel that void. But as you said, it's, it's, it's a bit like the second
20:54mountain, right? Or the next phase, and a kind of embracing the grief that can come from one chapter
21:02ending. Yes. But at the same time, just trying to look at what else, what else can be what else you
21:09can anchor yourself? Yes, in and with. Yeah. So I think in a way, my advice to them would be,
21:16think about version or marriage 2.0. Right? So the function of, of version one was to do what
21:25they've done. And, and I'm assuming that they've done that well, and they're proud of, you know,
21:30of what they've done. And, and, and now it's time to look at version 2.0. And what does that entail?
21:36It's, it's a new marriage. It is a new marriage, a new relationship to the same person. And so
21:42just kind of start afresh and see if, if there's some tools that they think they can look at
21:49to, to reconnect. Right. Right. Okay. We have two questions. We can go ahead with them. If you have
21:56the time. Absolutely. Okay. So a lot of them are actually all of them have to do with kids. And
22:01it's just, it's amazing how a lot of people put that pressure on themselves when it comes to kids
22:07when really it, I mean, it shouldn't be that way, I guess, is what you're saying. So this one is
22:14from a listener who's saying, I really want to have children. We've been married for quite some
22:18time right now. But my husband feels like our relationship is going to change drastically
22:23after we have the child. And I know we spoke about this briefly. How do we take this step? So she
22:29clearly wants the child. He wants it, but he's afraid. And I, that's another thing that's always,
22:35you know, said to people who want to become, who are new parents or want to become parents,
22:42is that, oh, when the child comes, like your life changes. Your life ends is what everyone says,
22:47or a lot of people say. Yeah, they do. Your life ends. Yeah. When really it shouldn't be the case.
22:51So, yeah. So what would you say to a man that feels that way? Yeah. Well, I would be interested
22:58in the specific fears, right? So there's a general fear. There's a general fear that they have from
23:04a reality check that, yes, something is going to change, right? And the most obvious is in the
23:10amount of time and attention that they will have for each other. Right. Fact, right? But how do we
23:16want to deal with that from the perspective of the fears that that can bring to the surface, right?
23:22And also just sort of, I guess, solution-focused, solution-oriented strategies to work around that.
23:29Do you know what I mean? So in a way, even though that's quite a common response, the way that
23:36couples deal with that will differentiate them between sort of the master versus disaster,
23:42which is a Gottman term as well from the Gottman Institute in bringing baby home. They'll talk a
23:47lot about how you can create micro connections that don't then lead to this big void of, okay,
23:55you're off with the baby. I have nothing to do, but just work harder or maybe go find new friends,
23:59because that's what a lot of males will feel. Because they said, well, I don't really know if
24:02I can help. And even if I try, it's not the same, right? So just to be able to find those
24:10micro connections, right? So quality over quantity, but just to be more and more aware of what's the
24:16fear, because it doesn't have to be the same. The fear might look different. The feeling is the
24:21same, but it might look different. So as long as they can work around that with a little bit of
24:26help, I'd say to him, there's a whole lot of joy on the other end. Okay. There's light at the end
24:33of the tunnel. But with taking the time and the effort to understand specifically what that fear
24:41is for him, and to be able to sort of work with that in a solution focused way.
24:47It's also temporary. At some point, the children say, bye, mom and dad, we don't need you anymore.
24:53And that isn't always 18 or 17 or 16. It's a lot younger than that usually, where they're like,
25:00okay, we're off on our own. Or even if it's within the house, so they're at home,
25:05but they're off doing their own thing. They're bumbling around being little busybodies. And then
25:10you kind of have those pockets of time back. Nice. Okay. Last question, I promise. Okay.
25:16I feel like kids have made our problems worse. They are lovely, and we love them. But oftentimes,
25:21we fight about things related to our kids, like how he doesn't spend time with them,
25:25and how he feels I'm smothering them or I'm overprotective. It's like we have different
25:29ideas on how to raise our children. What's the solution? Oh, this is a difference in
25:33parenting styles. I love these. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, it's good for the children to
25:41have different parenting styles, as long as they don't see a whole lot of unresolved conflict.
25:48Conflict is not bad. But if they see unresolved conflict again, and again, and again, it's very
25:53confusing for children, right? So if they see the conflict, they see resolution, then they're more
25:59open to think and feel that a difference of opinion is fine. It doesn't lead to trauma,
26:06and a lot of disruption in our life. But, you know, they might even say, here we go again,
26:11there's mom and dad, you know, disagreeing, but we trust that they will figure it out.
26:16And children need to see that versus the same parenting style. Right. So that's the first thing
26:22that I think is important to establish is fine. It doesn't matter that your parenting styles are
26:26different. But let's start to look at those as well. Right. So where does it come from,
26:30usually from family of origin? So he might say, well, I was raised this way, or even the opposite.
26:37I never had that. And so that's why I want to do it. And when we can try to sort of pick out the
26:42things that are their individual family of origin stories and say, okay, let's recreate a new story
26:48that's our story. And it's specific to us and this family, and the personalities of these children.
26:54And that's why there's no one size fits all, because you can have a parenting philosophy that
26:58both parents agree on, and it doesn't even work for the same children. I mean, for two children
27:03in the same house, of course. And so okay, well, we're gonna have to do this with, you know, the
27:08older one, we're gonna have to do it this way with the younger one. But I'd recommend some kind of
27:12parent coaching, which can help them understand where each one's coming from. And then as long
27:18as they're using the right tools to resolve the conflict and not leave it open ended and not have
27:22it take over. You know, some conflict is good. Okay, good, because it helps you to actually
27:29resolve the crisis. If you just if everyone just sucked it in and didn't say and didn't feel,
27:34then you know, there's no solution. Everyone, you're just packing it in internalizing.
27:39And you'll never really get to it gets to a point of too much frustration then. And then usually
27:43there's a big blow up, right? So conflict doesn't need to mean screaming and shouting, but just
27:50expressing that they have these differences of opinion. Okay, I like that. Because you know, we
27:54always hear No, you guys should always be in agreement in front of the children. And you know,
27:58it shouldn't be the case. But I like that you're saying no, it's fine, as long as we reach a
28:03solution or resolution at the end of it. So that they see that this is normal. Yeah, we will have
28:08different opinions. But at the same time, I mean, that doesn't make us love each other less or,
28:13you know, fight even more. Yeah, basically. Yeah. So we can fight, right? We can agree to disagree.
28:20And when relevant, involve the children in if it's specific to them, obviously, not if it's
28:27an adult topic, then that's not why. But sometimes we just kind of say, okay, let's open up the floor,
28:31right? Why do you want to do what you want to do? Why do you want to do what you want to do? And
28:35then maybe there's developmentally the need to be old enough to have that conversation.
28:39And sometimes that helps as well. Because if, you know, your child is saying, I'm actually
28:44totally fine with that. But you think that that's not okay. Maybe they're right. Yeah. You know,
28:49sometimes we don't give them enough credit. Because, you know, we see them as little human
28:54beings and little versions. But actually, very often, you just have to trust that they know
28:58as well. Absolutely. I've had to tune into that a lot more as a parent, just to be able to say,
29:04okay, well, if you're saying that, and I and I don't find myself in agreement,
29:08then I need to spend more time with that myself, because there's a pretty good chance that I'm
29:11wrong. Exactly. And that you know, what you need. Exactly. Absolutely. I like that. I love that.
29:17Thank you so much, Devika. My pleasure. It was lovely talking to you. I feel like there's so
29:23much more we can talk about. So wait for my phone call. Let's chat again soon. I would
29:27love that. We'll probably have you back on. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you.