Devika Mankani, Licensed Psychologist, joins Maria Botros on the Tell Me Why podcast to speak about the additional benefits of applying a more holistic approach to psychology.
Holistic psychology is an evolving field within the mental health space, says Devika
Devika: Holistic psychology is more of a perspective that you would add to existing fields in psychology
Finding a purpose in life can be done in phases, says Devika
Devika: A lot of people sometimes get stuck doing things they don’t find meaning or purpose in
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Holistic psychology is an evolving field within the mental health space, says Devika
Devika: Holistic psychology is more of a perspective that you would add to existing fields in psychology
Finding a purpose in life can be done in phases, says Devika
Devika: A lot of people sometimes get stuck doing things they don’t find meaning or purpose in
Read the full story here:
See more videos at https://gulfnews.com/videos
Read more Gulf News stories here: https://bit.ly/2HLJ2km
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NewsTranscript
00:00a lot of new parents end up with what they think is a temporary parallel life.
00:07Okay, I'll do what I need to do and you do what you need to do and at some point we'll find the
00:10bridge and then we'll cross the bridge and we'll meet again. But sometimes that doesn't happen
00:15because a baby will need all this time but then a toddler needs time and then a child and then
00:22you usually by then it's two, three, four and you just it's never ending. So the commitment is
00:27important pre-transition to say look we're going to try and commit to some of these things that
00:33are useful for both of us. Today we're going to talk about holistic psychology and I'm joined
00:44in the studio by David Kamankani who is a certified holistic psychologist. So I'm a
00:50licensed psychologist. And a licensed psychologist. Okay, well there you go. I'm learning new things
00:55about you already. Same thing, same thing. Yeah, so this is interesting because I feel like excuse my
01:01ignorance but I feel like I have no idea what holistic psychology is and I feel like how is
01:07it different than you know your usual or conventional psychology. Right, right.
01:13Well don't feel ignorant because it is I think it's an evolving field within the
01:21mental health space. I wouldn't say it's new. So 20 years ago I qualified as a humanistic
01:27psychologist. Okay. And I'll explain that a little bit more. But holistic psychology is more of a
01:33perspective that you would add to existing modalities and existing fields in psychology.
01:39It's not either or. So holistic psychology doesn't exist instead of clinical psych or
01:47developmental psych or the other fields in psychology. But it's a perspective that you add
01:52on. Okay. And the definition will vary, right. But the definition that I like the most is a way to
02:01live in alignment even if it's through your struggles. Okay. And even to use the struggles
02:07to find your alignment, right. So you could have a mental health piece. So you have a for example
02:13clinical psychology diagnosis, right. And very experienced clinicians working with you through
02:19your diagnosis on what to do. With humanistic and holistic psychology we just kind of shift the lens
02:27a little bit around to what are some of the bigger questions that we can look at within this diagnosis
02:34or within this experience that you're having. Okay. So I mean I'll give you an example of some
02:38of the questions that that we use when we say what does it mean to live in alignment? What does it
02:42mean to find purpose and meaning? Because a lot of the research has confirmed that
02:50depression and anxiety has roots in obviously in stress. I think that's well established.
02:57But also if you go a little bit deeper and you just keep peeling back layers and layers you find
03:02that a lot of the time it's connected to a lack of purpose or a lack of meaning. Okay. And that's
03:08ironic these days because we're so busy and we're just running running running running and doing
03:12so much. But at the end of the day when you ask yourself did I contribute in some way. Right. So
03:19so I guess in a way that's part of holistic psychology and you kind of weave it into the
03:25clinical work or the marriage and family therapy to try and add a different perspective or a
03:30different a different layer. Okay. A different lens to deal with the situation as it is. So
03:37I mean it's maybe it's a way of saying okay is it 360? Perhaps. It doesn't deny the clinical
03:44aspects of an experience but it kind of zooms out a little bit sometimes. Okay. And looks at
03:48things like who am I? What do I want? Sometimes you know even to ask well where did I come from?
03:57And how does that inform who I am right now? How do I define meaningful relationships?
04:04So you know questions like that sort of soul questions that are definitely not one session
04:11answers. Yeah of course. But that we sometimes go into a very long process of trying to uncover
04:17what that might mean. Right. Right. So it's great that you mentioned that so and that you
04:22explained it because I thought okay it's just a whole different aspect of psychology but really
04:27it's just a different approach or it's an additional approach? I'd say it's an additional
04:32approach. Okay. It's an additional approach. Okay. Yeah. And I like that because it digs deeper
04:36and I think a lot of things that affect us as adults or later on in life might have root causes
04:42like our childhood or a traumatic experience that we've been through that we don't actually give
04:48that much attention to. Like we we actually think oh but that was years ago so it's fine and you
04:54know when we dig deeper we find out that no actually it's probably the reason why I have
04:59anxiety or I'm stressed. Okay so that question of finding my purpose.
05:08I've had so many people come to me and say because we spoke about that in a show earlier with another
05:14psychologist and they were like you know what that is the most frustrating statement or sentence that
05:20I hear because they feel like okay well how am I supposed to find my purpose? Like when you tell me
05:25find your purpose how do I do that? Like how do I listen to my my body or my soul and to find that
05:34purpose? And they find it so frustrating because they feel like I'm never gonna find it or I don't
05:38know how to do that. I love it. That's a big question. Yes. And I and I usually flip it a
05:44little bit and or I tweak it a little bit. I TikTokify it. Oh. And that's what we were talking
05:50about. I'm not on TikTok yet. But what I mean is I shrink that a little bit to what can I identify
05:57with as a purpose right now? Okay. Right? Because I don't think I can predict how my purpose will
06:04evolve in a decade. Definitely wasn't what it was 15 years ago or 20 years ago. I had a different
06:10purpose. So I guess you know there is that what is your entire life's purpose? Okay. And I think
06:15that's a pretty big question to answer and it's one that involves a lot of predictions that you
06:19don't necessarily. Exactly. That we don't have we're not equipped to make. Right. So so let's
06:24simplify it and break it down and say well what is your purpose right now? Right. I mean one of
06:29the things that I'm just I'm speaking for you I probably shouldn't is. No. Is is that you've you've
06:34decided that you want to use your voice. Right. To share information and knowledge which will
06:39make people's lives better. Right. And that's what you're doing in here right now. Okay. And in this
06:44period of your life. So how about we just start with that? Right. And and that that has roots in
06:49values. Right. Values are usually more constant. But they the manifestation of those values can
06:56change and that's how you would define your purpose in this space and time. Okay. Without
07:02saying well for the next three months this is unless you know that you're working on something
07:06for a limited amount of time. But usually it's just and I think that's where the holistic and
07:11the humanistic approach comes in and it can be helpful because because it's a way of just saying
07:18meet me where I am right now. Right now I'm identifying with this. Right now I see that
07:23this works. Right now this is what what sort of lights my fire and this is what I want to do right
07:29now. Right. And let me just go with that and find meaning and purpose through that. Right. Now a lot
07:35of people unfortunately get stuck doing things that they don't find meaning and purpose in and
07:39they sometimes do it very well. And then they'll say well I do that but is that really what what
07:45makes me tick? What really makes me you know there's that big question if you had all the money
07:51in the world what would you do? Right. And I love questions like that because they make us think
07:55about things without doing but just thinking about the feeling behind it which drives so much of what
08:00we do and drives our feeling of contentment. Right. I don't always use the word happiness but I say
08:06you know let's start with contentment and then and work up with that scale. Right. Right. Okay so the
08:12takeaway would be just to sum it up a little and we're going to get into that is you look at purpose
08:20in phases. You're not looking for like a life purpose like overwhelming yourself to finding a
08:25life purpose that's going to be there for years but maybe for this stage in life. So take it sort
08:31of in stages is what you're saying? Exactly. Exactly. Okay. What is it for you right now? Okay. And and
08:38that's what you focus on in the more in the here and now. Okay. In the present phase of your life.
08:43Okay. So we spoke about this off uh off uh air uh just like a few minutes ago. Attention spans.
08:52And the thing is is that I feel like that factors in with your life purpose. A lot of people have
08:57short attention spans now. They're impatient. They they don't have the time or effort to put
09:03into finding a life purpose or spending some time alone to sort of like soul search and and you know
09:10find answers. What's your take on that? I feel like it's affecting a lot of people and we've we spoke
09:16about social media. We spoke about content on social media. How it needs to be like snappy and
09:20quick and you know short captions, catchy you know videos and more than a minute you've lost
09:27your audience kind of thing. So what's your take on that? Yeah. I mean look I think that um
09:34on some level it's a little bit scary but I think we need to look at why it's happening.
09:39There's a lot of people and situations that are competing for our attention these days right?
09:47And one of the things that I do in the retreats that I run is to talk about and look at content
09:52conscious consumption which is just exactly that. Slowing down and asking is this a need or a want?
09:58Is this what I what I envisioned I would actually need or am I just going with a herd? Am I kind of
10:04falling for advertising tricks and things like that? But but in general there's a lot of a lot
10:09of things and people that are vying for our attention. And so in some ways this could be
10:15adaptive right? So it's a way to just quickly filter out where you want to focus your attention.
10:21But I think that that it shouldn't and I hope that it will not replace the need for going deeper into
10:29an issue and going deeper into a subject. It is true that that short bites of information are
10:35easier for the brain to process and digest right? So we often teach break it down before it breaks
10:40you down. Don't try to eat the whole meal at once just you know from a from an optimization
10:47perspective. How do you do it? But at the same time I think that should be more of a way to scan
10:53your interest and then pick the ones that you know you want to spend a little more time on and
10:59eventually go deeper because they're this this isn't a replace a replacement for mastery.
11:05We have to still be able to look at mastering a skill and being able to do something well enough
11:11for change or just for what that skill requires. But I just thought of an advantage. Very often
11:16I'll have a student at the schools that I'm affiliated with at Fortis Education. So it's
11:22on Mark and Regent and just this morning we did a great class on peak performance and helping
11:29children with procrastination and things like that. But the students are so well informed
11:35because they're on TikTok and they're giving me all these you know neuropsych terms about what
11:41they know and I love it and they know it. It's not it's not just you know because they watched a
11:47short clip on neuroplasticity and and they asked me do you know miss that you know this if you
11:53practice something this many times you actually developed that and that motivates them to keep
11:57going because sometimes it's very hard to make sense of what you're doing in school right?
12:02And it's the same in the clinic and the practice when I have a client come in very often
12:06I mean sometimes it's a bit of self-diagnosis and we have to slow it down and say oh I don't know
12:10if I agree with that. But very often it's great because they're coming in with information
12:15and they help with the process of just looking at what's happening with them psychologically
12:21and from a relationship perspective because they've just got that little bite.
12:25Right and it's nice that you said you know like this self-diagnosis at least they're doing
12:30something to try to find answers so it's in a way it is kind of reassuring that the client or
12:35the patient is coming in you know with an open mind and you know someone that's been trying to
12:40do some research trying to get better so it as yeah as much as it sometimes is frustrating because
12:45you feel like well I don't agree with the with the diagnosis but at the same time you feel like
12:50okay well at least they've been trying to find you know a way to get better or a definition or
12:57meaning to how they feel. Yeah there's some introspection which is better than denial
13:01because that's a lot harder to work with. At least they notice that there's something that needs to
13:05be fixed or not even fixed but needs to be addressed let's say. Okay you mentioned relationships and
13:11that's a really nice segue into what we want to focus on. You deal with a lot of married couples
13:17with families and I think this is crucial at this day and age and again it has to do with social
13:26media with attention spans with patients with a lot of things that have sort of evolved and and
13:33affected people I want to say negatively especially in their relationships these days that they don't
13:39actually want to put in the work to salvage whatever's left of the relationship. We have a
13:45lot of listeners questions actually in that area so we put out like a a short Instagram you know
13:51poll and question just to get people to send in their questions and their responses and you know
13:56what they want to know more about but before we get into that I want to know like what your
14:01approach is with married couples or with families you know couples with kids. Yeah it's a good
14:06question and and there's good news. The good news is that I'm seeing a lot more pre-marriage
14:13couples so young couples coming in and saying we heard that you teach this pre-marital
14:20counseling course and you know what's that about. Yes. And I used to ask I used to say well you know
14:26did somebody tell you to come in did like a mom or a dad or a friend or an uncle say you know
14:31or a doctor say look I know we just heard that you do this and you know we think that it's good for
14:36us. Okay. So okay great let's get going right and they're coming in you know sometimes even before
14:43an engagement and they'll say look our parents are completely fine with us you know getting married
14:49our families are okay with it and we want this but we still think that we need to do the education
14:54piece. Okay. And that's like music to my ears because you know prevention is everything
15:02right and so if we can teach skills and relationship skills are exactly that like tennis
15:08skills if we can look at it like that and get started with that it's magical because then
15:15when you learn those skills out of conflict then you're much better to apply them in conflict but
15:21if a couple's been in conflict for many years and then they come in and I'm trying to teach them the
15:25skills it's a lot more difficult and sometimes even you know impossible I don't use that use
15:32that word very often but sometimes it's impossible because they're just so fixed in their pain that
15:38they don't want to look at it from the other person's perspective. Right. So I do I do a lot of
15:43I kind of mix up my couples and family work with non-directive sort of open
15:52discussions about values and expectations and things like that but I also mix it in with a lot
15:58of academic reading and research-based information from my favorite are John and Julie Gottman from
16:05the Gottman Institute who have an assessment that I love so I usually get my couples to do an
16:11assessment so at least we know what we need to focus on and where to start because otherwise you
16:16can talk endlessly right and that's not always helpful you can actually reinforce a lot of
16:19problems if you're not trained in the couple dynamic and you don't have information from
16:25both people so you know the danger of the single story one side of the story is is massive and it's
16:33and it's very dangerous to sometimes you just take in one side and not give airspace to the other
16:40side because then you don't have a balanced view. Right. But I usually approach it like that. It's
16:44funny that you mentioned the pre-marriage course because my husband and I did that twice before we
16:49got married we were so interested we really wanted to you know obviously we knew each other but when
16:56you do the course and when you're at when you're put on the spot and ask certain questions you
17:01really get to know the person and I and I loved you know learning about how to have crucial
17:07conversations how to have an argument that was something that was such an eye-opener to me because
17:13I felt like well you just argue I mean what's what's so difficult about arguing you just yell
17:18and you argue but there were there were things that we learned that to this day I know I mean
17:23we're not perfect I mean we don't do it 100% of the time but there are times where we remember it
17:28and we think okay let's take a step back and let's apply what we've learned and it makes it so much
17:34easier and I feel like a lot of people had they known that before they got into the marriage or
17:41if they do actually make the effort to learn it after the marriage it would make their lives
17:46easier I just feel like it's just a matter of educating yourself with the right ways and the
17:50right methods and the right the right approach I guess and I feel this is actually one of the
17:56questions that we had and I'm going to ask it now because I was in that situation before we took the
18:01course this girl texted and she's like we're about to get married and everyone is scaring us
18:06from that first year of marriage I feel like it's going to be one of the worst years of my life
18:12is it true and I was put in that situation everyone was like oh your first year of marriage it's the
18:16toughest you know why because you're used to putting your slippers there and he puts it that
18:21way and you know you want this side of the bed and you use your toothpaste a certain way and he
18:27squeezes it from the middle you know these silly things they're like oh it's going to be the worst
18:31but you just have to power through and it was it was frightening and I think that's why we did
18:37the course twice because we felt like no we don't want it to be the worst year of our lives we want
18:42it to be pleasant I mean even if it's not the best there is getting used to like with your first year
18:48but you do want it to be a pleasant experience so I actually wanted to address that question
18:53since you mentioned it as well yeah oh people can really instill the fear of God in you right
19:00and and it's important to ask where that can come from often it comes from projection right
19:05so that might have been their experience they project that onto a couple and about to be
19:12married or engaged couple and they just kind of want to you know I'm sure they're well-intentioned
19:18and say look watch out for these things but no it doesn't always have to be like that right
19:23and so yeah awareness is is a big part of this but I also think we're beyond
19:27just awareness and just talking now it's time to take action right now it should be just as you
19:33know I joke with my children I say dental every six months mental every six months oh
19:39cover yourself dental mental do something for your your teeth and do something with your mind
19:45and by teeth I mean the whole body and just the physical you know the representation of that
19:50instead of waiting for a problem and then trying to figure out what to do but if you just keep
19:56up with the prevention which is learning action not just awareness but actual action where you
20:03okay what are we going to do how are we going to commit to this what book are we reading together
20:07what movies you know or shows can we watch together who can we see on a monthly or every
20:13three months or however often we need to right to figure out what this relationship needs because
20:19it's going to be completely different for every two people because that little chemical reaction
20:24is going to depend on your family of origin and and the rules that you learned about relationships
20:30and sometimes it's true that that it shifts pretty quickly from you know dating or from the time that
20:36you met to being married because the level of commitment changes and sometimes with that the
20:40expectation does change so that's not entirely uh false to say that you know you can slip into that
20:47new environment and then a whole bunch of things just keep coming up sometimes but not always
20:52sometimes the first year is the honeymoon where things are really really nice and easy and
20:57wonderful and then things settle a little bit and the expectation starts to change or uncover itself
21:05right a little bit more right right okay so um we're gonna dive into the rest of the questions
21:13and then we will get back to the listeners questions but we know that a lot of challenges
21:18can begin with the first child in a marriage or in a relationship and um i think it's very tough
21:27on both the the male and the female a lot of people focus on the females and i think it's unfair
21:33um you know i i give females the credit i mean women go through postpartum depression they go
21:40through a lot of hormonal changes physical changes and and the lack of sleep i mean it is a lot it's
21:47very taxing on the woman but it's also very exhausting and it's very stressful for the man
21:54as well so i want to just discuss that i know we can't discuss it briefly obviously and it's a big
22:00topic but i want to address that yeah yeah it's true and i think culturally we need to we need
22:06to think about um why in some cultures it's okay to talk about the male going through the male
22:16partner going through what they're going through and in some cultures it's it's not yes you know
22:20what i mean so um but absolutely i mean you know with my clients and even just with family and
22:25friends when i speak to them it's the level of responsibility that males often feel is just
22:32supercharged from one day to the next and that brings so much with it um and then depending on
22:40the personality whether they internalize that stress or can talk about it or do something about
22:47it will dictate how they move through it versus get get stuck with it and and be bound down by it
22:54right um so it is as a transition i think the first difficult transition usually is going from
23:00being a single individual to now being a couple right right and with every transition there's a
23:05risk of a crisis it doesn't have to be a crisis but there is a risk of a crisis
23:09and then the next transition that has a risk is going from a two person family unit or couple
23:17to a three person and yes it's true that the focus changes and it and it does become a lot
23:22more baby focused because these cute little things take up your whole day your whole night
23:27but i always encourage couples to just find that little time to go back and and just delegate as
23:33much as they can so that they can get little pockets of time where you find attachment and
23:40connection again because otherwise you're right what ends up happening is a lot of new couple
23:45new parents end up with what they think is a temporary parallel life okay i'll do what i
23:52need to do and you do what you need to do and at some point we'll find the bridge and then we'll
23:55cross the bridge and we'll meet again right but sometimes that doesn't happen because um a baby
24:02will need all this time but then a toddler needs time and a child and then you usually by then it's
24:07two three four and you just it's never ending so the commitment is is important pre-transition
24:14to say look we're going to try and commit to some of these things that are useful for both for both
24:18of us um and there's some baby transition work that i do as well with new parents um also based
24:25on the gotman's research um there's a very nice program called and baby makes three or bringing
24:31baby home the book is called baby makes three but the course is called bringing baby home
24:35and it's lovely because it's just how to deal with those feelings and it often most couples
24:41will say i knew most of that but it's just given me permission to feel it and it's given me
24:46permission now to ask for what for what i want when i need it because i can see that this is
24:51it's okay okay and in you know families or like family units that come to you basically do you
25:00deal with children i do deal with children okay and is that challenging do you feel like children
25:05are more challenging than adults when in most cases it's usually not the child that needs
25:11very much really okay interesting why do you say that children are often um scapegoats for the
25:16problem right they're the presenting person with the problem or the presenting problem
25:24and every so often i'll have a couple or a family or parents say happy to drop johnny off and i'll
25:29pick them up in an hour and just do what you can please and tell me what i need to do
25:34and let's just take it from there and they're very well intentioned and you know but but we'll
25:39we'll start with that but just keep it brief and then usually i'm more interested in what's happening
25:44in this family unit or for this parent that is bringing this child in and i'm not saying
25:52that children don't need to learn self-regulation techniques and a lot of other things that can come
25:56with um even sort of current stressors i think i think that you know that that does happen right
26:03but do they need to be in focus no it's the family system that i think needs the focus
26:11and then and children just need a little support along the way yeah okay so you feel like a lot of
26:16the root causes of why the child is there goes back to the family unit yeah or the or the parents
26:22very often okay and if it's something that's developmental or if it's something that is
26:26specific to the child then the work still goes back to the parents okay so so when i say i see
26:33children yes i do we do an assessment we make a plan but actually the work happens through the
26:39unit versus just the child just the child yeah okay um this is something that i just thought of
26:45because i wish my parents uh just took me to someone to talk to as a child i feel like um a
26:54lot of people are doing that more and more now yes not necessarily because their child has a
26:58has a has an issue or a developmental you know obstacle or challenge um they're probably just
27:05sending them through so that they can talk to someone that can make sense of how they feel
27:10because sometimes parents are not equipped to do that and i i applaud parents that do that because
27:16i feel like as a child you deal with so much that your parents don't know about so i spoke to um
27:23this this lovely guest that came on the show who deals with women's health and she was talking
27:29about how you know down to the simplest thing when a girl gets her first period or when she
27:34goes through puberty or when a boy goes through puberty these things are sort of kept in and
27:40don't speak to your parents about them or your parents don't speak to you about them
27:44and i would have wished that someone would have just taken me to someone to talk about it
27:49and just get it off my chest things would have been so much easier do you get clients like that
27:54do you get people that just bring in their child there is no issue but they just want someone to
27:58talk to yes absolutely yeah and i and i uh like you i i sort of applaud that approach and that
28:05openness as well um i think it's very helpful now that schools have counselors and that
28:10children have permission and the whole school system is built around um allowing children and
28:18and just not just facilitating but actually encouraging them to reach out to somebody in
28:23a safe environment in school you know it can be a safe environment um a counselor an external
28:29counselor but i add to that as well to say that very often children need and wish for because
28:38when they come to me this is what i hear very often as well it's not always i just need someone
28:43to speak to that's true but that doesn't that that person can be a parent so it's nice to have
28:51a supplement right in the form of an external person but very often what i hear from the
28:56children who come into me is that if i had more time with my parents and and then i take that back
29:04to mom and dad and i'll say can you try and create just maybe extensions in the pockets of time that
29:10you have together because you'll see that maybe it'll be easier for them to share what they're
29:15sharing with me with you right and that doesn't mean that that we don't still see each other
29:20periodically for things if especially if there's nothing you know critical happening if there's no
29:25crisis but i see that with my in my family as well that when i'm spending longer with my children
29:32that they'll tell me things that if the week's been busy they'll say things just because now
29:37we had an extended period of time together that you you can't replace that you can't rush it
29:42right there's no other substitute for spending that time together and not always in activity
29:48not always directed towards a lesson or a show or you know a class or something but just
29:54hanging out and doing absolutely nothing is when i hear things that i don't expect to hear exactly
30:01exactly when you've given them your full time and attention is when you really truly connect
30:06with them i guess
30:24you