Luton Town expert Mike Simmonds joins James Copley to discuss Sunderland game
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00:00Hello there, welcome to the RAW podcast, my name's James Copley from the Sunderland Echo
00:27and I'm delighted today to be joined by Luton Town Writer for Luton today, Mike Simmons.
00:32Mike, how are you doing and welcome to the podcast.
00:35Nice to be here, very well, very good. How are you? All okay?
00:38Yes, not bad, not bad at all. Obviously, Sunderland had that 2-2 draw against Watford
00:42at the Stadium of Light, which was perhaps a little bit disappointing, but please talk to
00:46me about Luton because I've been fascinated by Luton's season, obviously coming down from the
00:50Premier League. I think most neutral observers expected Luton to compete. Currently though,
00:55second bottom in the Championship have changed managers, Rob Edwards to Matt Bloomfield,
01:00which had a knock-on effect to Sunderland actually because that meant Matt Bloomfield
01:03left Wickham and Mike Dodds, Sunderland's first-team coach, went there. Anyway,
01:07I digress slightly, but what's happened to Luton this season because it feels bizarre?
01:12Yes, it's just, I mean, as you said, I thought they'd be top two in the top six this season
01:18after doing, I mean, they came down from the Premier League, but they kept a lot of the
01:21players. It's just not gone right. It's just that sort of the losing mentality, losing streak,
01:28it's just carried on from the Premier League and they've just not been able to get back to
01:33how they used to play in the Championship. They used to win games 1-0 and keep clean sheets
01:37defensively. They were really, really good. That's not happened this season so far and they've just
01:41found that the switch back to the Championship really hard to deal with and as you say, I mean,
01:47at the moment, a second relegation does look like it could be on the cards. So,
01:53yeah, it's just not been what anyone expected this season at all.
01:57And where do you think it's gone wrong, Mike? Because I'm looking at Luton Town squad as we
02:01speak and there's some really good players there, you know, the likes of Chong, of Alfie Doherty,
02:08you know, who else have we got? Mengi as well in defence. Victor Moses is still there.
02:14Can you put your finger on why it's dropped off so significantly this season?
02:18I mean, injuries, as a lot of people mention injuries, every club has got them known,
02:23but sort of Mengi's been out now. He's got a serious knee injury. He's been out for a long
02:26time. Doherty missed 11 games because he was injured. Chong's injured at the moment. They've
02:31got lots of, they've had lots of long-term injuries defensively. They've had to play
02:37wing-backs at centre-half because they've not had them and youngsters have been playing.
02:42So, injuries has been a massive, massive problem for Luton this season. It's slightly easing off
02:47now. They've only got a couple of long-term ones out. Tom Lockyer, obviously, what happened with
02:51him, he's not been able to play this season. So, it is starting to get better on the injury front
02:57and that, I mean, and that has been a major issue for them this season. I mean, they should still
03:02have enough in the squad to be higher than they are. That is to be said as well. And away from
03:07home, you've got to pinpoint the away record. I mean, it was 12 straight defeats until they got a
03:13point in the Sheffield Wednesday, the previous match. And that is just not good enough, obviously,
03:18at this level. So, every time they go away, they've not been able to pick up any points at all.
03:22So, that put a lot of pressure on the home form, which had been okay. Then they started losing a
03:26few games at home and not winning there either. And so, that obviously, if you're not winning
03:30your home games and you're losing all your away games, that's only going to, only one thing's
03:33going to happen really then. So, luckily, they have ended that, as in they could get a point,
03:38but away form and injuries has kind of seen them where they are at the moment.
03:43Yeah, that concerns me that the away form has been so bad, but then you come into the stadium
03:48of like where the home form has been so good to remain at home this season. We know how football
03:52works and that does concern me a little bit, Mike. Talk to me about Rob Edwards and his arc at
03:58Luton Town because he came in, obviously, he'd managed your rivals Watford, had been sacked there.
04:03He came in, got Luton Town into the playoffs, they beat Sunderland, famously went to Wembley,
04:07did a fantastic job to get Luton back into the Premier League and put up a reasonably good fight,
04:14I would say, in the Premier League from a neutral's perspective, did probably about as well
04:18as you could expect. And it feels like the club gave him every chance to try and make this season
04:24work. But at the end, it sort of became untenable, it feels. Yeah, I mean, as you say, Premier League,
04:30they did superbly, obviously were helped by the points deductions for other teams. But I mean,
04:33the way they attacked it, especially the second half of the season when they had their injuries
04:37as well, that they gave staying up a real chance. And everyone was pretty happy with
04:42not obviously where it finished, but how they did attack the Premier League.
04:46After this season, again, it came down and it just didn't, because they couldn't get the results.
04:52It looked like when they went to Middlesbrough and lost 5-1 a bit earlier in the season,
04:56it looked like that was going to kind of be the natural parting of the ways for
05:00Robben and the club. But that didn't happen. As you said, they wanted to give him as much
05:04chance as they could to turn things around. They didn't want to look like they were just
05:08sack a manager whenever things go wrong. And they did give him a lot of time. In the end,
05:14it just kind of happened where there was too many defeats. Also, it was in the transfer window as
05:18well. So, they needed to kind of get someone in who could maybe, with the new signings coming in
05:22in January, kind of turn that, give him a bit of time to work with the squad. And they were
05:27desperate for him to stay or to sort of lead them through this period. And he wanted to as well.
05:34But I think in the end, they said mutual consent and it just seemed to be like
05:37that was kind of the right time. I mean, he looked like he needed a break from football as well.
05:41So much has gone on in the past 12 months. You mentioned Lockyer. I mean, that was something
05:45that really affected him and the club as well. It just, in the end, I think he needed a break.
05:51I think that was realised. And just the passing of the ways was probably the right thing to do
05:56in the end for them. And how did you find Edwards as a person to deal with and to work with,
06:02as you mentioned, sort of guided the club through that Tom Lockyer situation as well?
06:06How was he with you? He was great. I mean, the word I would always describe him is genuine. He's
06:12just such a nice guy. And it's not, maybe some people could say I've come across an act. It
06:18definitely doesn't. He is just a genuinely nice person. You see him at the training ground and
06:24the things he is. He was excellent to deal with. And especially when in the Premier League,
06:29he had a lot more media requests and a lot more, there's a lot more spotlight on Luton.
06:34He dealt with it all perfectly. He was a really good manager to have for Luton at that time to
06:39lead them in the Premier League. His public image was excellent and very, very caring guy. He was
06:45just a really nice guy to deal with, with the press all the time. And I think that was all the
06:51players, you speak to some of the players, I mean, they all love playing for him as well.
06:55Speak to how nice a person he is. I think he, families and stuff, he's kind of, he's a really
07:00good person to work with and work for. So yeah, really genuine guy. Absolutely. And to be honest,
07:07I still find the position Luton are in sort of hard to grasp and understand because we,
07:12I covered the game at Kenilworth Road earlier on in the season. It was a real
07:16ding-dong physical battle, a really, really intense fixture. The crowd were excellent,
07:21I thought as well. Sunderland managed to edge it 2-1 and that was the first time
07:25earlier on in the season where I thought actually this Sunderland team might have something about
07:30them. They've stood up to a really good physical side who were in the Premier League last season,
07:34who have a lot of quality. And I remember coming away from that thinking Luton Town will surely be
07:39okay this season or even compete with that home crowd, with the quality they had. I thought they
07:45were organised on the day and were perhaps beaten by two moments of quality. It's just,
07:50it's so hard to fathom where it's gone wrong. I know. I mean, they also beat Watford 3-0 and
07:56one of the best performances, obviously best performance of the season, but one of the best
07:59performances in recent times to win that one. So they're capable of doing that now and again,
08:04but they've just not been able to do it consistently at all. And the Sunderland,
08:07I remember the Sunderland game, you sort of think Sunderland weren't in their best
08:10but still won their games. You kind of thought, well, that's the kind of a promotion challenging
08:13team can go and do really. So you kind of thought that straight away about them.
08:18They've played well, they've just not played consistently well enough. The home games
08:22recently have been very tough to watch. There's been very little attacking. What you'd expect
08:25with Luton are a home team, crowd behind them, crosses in the box, shots, that kind of thing
08:29that's always seen, but it's not happened in the last few games at home. So that's really
08:34hindered them in terms of that. They've managed to get a few wins before Christmas. They've got
08:38a couple of last minute goals, which really helped. That kind of just sort of papered over,
08:42really, the actual level of performances they were producing. It's just not been
08:46what you'd expect from home games as visiting teams have found it sort of easy-ish now to kind
08:52of stop Luton playing and stop their threats. And when that happens and the crowd quietens,
08:57then for the visiting team, it's a lot easier to try and get a result from the game, which they've
09:01been doing as well recently. And how is the mood amongst the fan base, perhaps, towards the
09:07running of the club at the moment? I ask this because Sunderland did a very similar thing to
09:14what Luton are doing now. Obviously, they were in the Premier League and then they came down
09:17into the Championship and then everybody thought they'd be OK and they weren't. Ultimately,
09:21they ended up getting relegated to League One. Now, we don't know if that will definitely happen
09:24to Luton yet or not. There's a lot of football to be played. But at the time, I remember a lot
09:28of apathy creeping in and then you get your comments towards the ownership, which were very
09:34much justified from a Sunderland point of view. Luton is a different circumstance and have a very
09:38specific way of doing things. But is that being questioned now because it's yielded such good
09:42results for Luton because they've come from the lower divisions to the Premier League and back?
09:50The ownership of the club has always been great and the fans have loved it. It's been a real tight
09:53unity between them, especially over recent seasons going to the Premier League, as they did this
09:58season. There have been a few slight issues because obviously with the money that you get
10:03from going up to the Premier League, some fans have maybe said that the board didn't spend as
10:06much on players as they wanted to, as they thought they should have done, really. But obviously,
10:11with the move to Paracourt and the stadium that's going ahead as well, a lot of the money that
10:16they've got from promotion and the parachute payments and that sort of side of thing has
10:20been saved for Paracourt to cement the club's future going forward, which is you can understand
10:25that from the board that they want that money to go to the ground. And obviously, with costs
10:29have gone up and they've had to do different planning commission and planning applications.
10:34So, there's been a lot of money that's gone into that and they've put money on the training
10:37ground. They've spent about half a million on a new pitch to try and stop the injuries that
10:42they get in training and with Drake, that kind of stuff. So, a lot of money goes into what fans
10:46don't really see. But then obviously, supporters want money spent on the players as well. And in
10:51January, they have actually gone out and spent a fair bit on some signings. They've brought a
10:54lot of new players in now in the last window. So, they have obviously recognised that they need to
10:59put some money into the squad, which they have done. So, I mean, in general, there is a real
11:04good bond between the club and the supporters. And so hopefully, with the outlay they've spent
11:11on players in this month and if that can improve results, then that should hopefully come back
11:15together again now from what's slightly been a little bit disjointed this season.
11:20And talk to me about that transfer business, if you could, Mike. What have Luton Town
11:24done in the transfer market and will it be enough, in your opinion?
11:28Well, they've certainly given it a go. They've brought an afternoon member. They've brought
11:31seven new players in, in this window. And a lot of the money, a lot of the signings have
11:37been attacking players. So, they've brought in Asgard from Wigan, Ali from Exeter's joined,
11:42Jones from Middlesbrough joined as well. And they've also brought a Norwegian striker in,
11:47Lasse, I'm going to have to have completely forgotten his last name, but I think it's
11:50Lasse Norgaard, something like that. So, they've realised that they need to kind of score some
11:57goals as well, in that they've not scored as many goals as they'd like so far this season.
12:02So, they've obviously strengthened in the attacking areas. Matt Bloomfield is a very
12:05attacking manager. Wickham, obviously, when you look at their record, they were the top scorers
12:08in League One when he was there. I think they'd managed 50 goals by the time that he'd left.
12:13So, he wants attacking players. And they've strengthened defensively in Cal Naismith as well,
12:18a player that the fans know very well because he was at the club beforehand.
12:22So, they look good. The players that came in the last game, Asgard looks a really good player. So,
12:29he's definitely going to help them going forward. They've now had a week off, I think it's 10 days
12:34since the last game before they play Sunderland. So, he'll have had all that time to work on the
12:38training pitch with them and get his ideas across. You could see in the Sheffield Wednesday game,
12:42what he's trying to do as well. They looked a bit more solid in that game as well.
12:48The signings, if they can all gel, there's not a lot of time. That's the slight concern,
12:53to get all his ideas across with the new players and the amount of games they've got left. They've
12:57got some tough games as well. That is a slight concern. But if he can get what he wants into
13:02the new players and get them all gelling, then they will have goals in the team now. So,
13:07there is a chance that they can score enough to stay up.
13:11I mean, you've touched upon it a little bit there, but what, to your mind, are the key
13:15differences between Rob Edwards and Matt Bloomfield at the moment? With the caveat that,
13:19obviously, Bloomfield hasn't been there very long at all.
13:21Yeah, I guess with Rob, towards the end, he would stick with his... He likes a three-at-the-back
13:28formation with wing-backs as well. And Matt Bloomfield has gone away from that straightaway
13:32to put a back four. And Rob was having to, with the injuries, he was having to play players out
13:39of position, but didn't want to stay with that formation. And then there's a player now called
13:45Lamine Fanet who's come in as a defensive midfielder. And then he was played in an
13:49attacking role straightaway, which now Matt Bloomfield has brought him back to his defensive
13:54role straightaway for the last game as well. So, it just may be that players were being played
13:59out of position. I mean, Alfie Doughty would occasionally go onto the right when he's left
14:02footed. Teeth Chong would be playing as a wing-back when he's an attacking player. So,
14:07that was kind of... It was a little bit muddled towards the end, I think, under Rob,
14:10where the players were. And they were playing out of position a bit too often, which was kind
14:14of affecting the team. And I think Matt's come in and I think he now wants to play players in
14:18their rightful positions and stick to this. I think he wants to... He likes a 4-2-3-1 formation
14:24away from home in the last match. I think something like that's going to stay a bit more.
14:28And maybe just playing players in their rightful positions, I think that's going to be
14:32something that he's going to look to do going forward.
14:35It'll be interesting to see what Regis Lebrus does, actually, because he's been playing a 4-3-3
14:39at home recently against Plymouth. And Watford, obviously, Sunderland slipped up to draws. There
14:45has been some calls from a player 4-4-2. Obviously, you lose a little bit of control there,
14:49but you would get Aliza Maienda in the team, who I think has got nine goal contributions
14:53and 15 starts. He tends to start on the bench if it's a 4-3-3. So, it sounds like it could be
14:59quite an interesting tactical battle between Matt Bloomfield and Regis Lebrus.
15:04Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think Luton will... They won't go... They'll obviously want to be solid.
15:08And I think, I mean, if you offered them a point now, I think they would most definitely take it.
15:12But he seems to be an attacking manager. He wants to go and win games. So, I don't think he's going
15:17to set up to solely defend. I think he's going to go with... He's got, obviously, with these
15:20attacking threats now and the striking options. He's definitely going to go and look to win if he
15:27can. So, yeah, it's going to... I think it will be... I mean, obviously, the odds are very much
15:32on Sunderland to win this one. But as you said, Luton not won away for ages. Sunderland don't
15:38lose at home. So, you never know, do you? No, it's... We call it doing a Sunderland up here.
15:44That would be very much doing a Sunderland to not lose at home all year and then face a team
15:50against Luton, who've struggled away from home. Mike, how are you feeling about the rest of the
15:55season and the relegation battle? Generally, obviously, Plymouth, Argyle have picked up a
16:00little bit. Obviously, Liverpool in the FA Cup last night at the time of recording. Derby County
16:06look to be making a managerial change. John Eustace possibly coming in. Hull City, to my eye,
16:11have seemed to have signed well in January. Portsmouth and Cardiff, Stoker in and around
16:17there as well. What's your gut feeling about the rest of the campaign? It's definitely a concern
16:22because you look at the table and there's the teams above Luton now. There's a little bit of a gap
16:28to the teams who are... I think there's two points to getting out of safety, but the ones
16:34above that now have kind of broken away a little bit. So, I mean, there's a massive concern that
16:38they are going to run out of games to kind of turn it around. So, they need to kind of get
16:42two or three wins very quickly just to kind of close that gap and bring as many teams into it,
16:46which is easier said than done. Because, obviously, Sunderland, then it's Sheffield United at home,
16:50and they've got Plymouth, which is going to be a massive game. And then they've got Watford,
16:55obviously, away, which is a massive game as well. So, it's a concern that if they don't get the
17:01results from the board quickly, they could end up being cut adrift. And that is a major worry,
17:06I think, for everyone at the moment. As you said, the other sides have strengthened quite well.
17:10They've changed managers as well, which Luton have done as well now. So, I think it's just
17:14going to be which club, the new signings, gel the quickest at those clubs and can kind of help their
17:20team get away. But I think with the Luton players themselves, I was talking to Alfie Doughty last
17:24week, he thinks there's no worry that Luton will go down at all. He thinks that from what he's seen
17:29in the squad and from what he sees in the training ground, that Luton will get clear of danger. So,
17:33the confidence amongst the players is high that they'll do it. The supporters are definitely
17:38concerned that that might not happen. And the next kind of four to five games, I think,
17:42they need to pick up a good haul of points to really just to get themselves back in and make
17:48sure that they're not going down to the last kind of 10 games where there's maybe six or seven
17:53points adrift and every game becomes massive. So, these next spell of games is important to see how
17:58the season's going to pan out. And how important is it that Luton stay up? You mentioned, obviously,
18:04the new stadium and infrastructure, stuff like that. For Sunderland, going into League One was
18:08a real disaster financially. The club hardly made any money. Commercially, it was terrible.
18:14We had all these players on Premier League wages, bloated contracts. It was a real tough slog and
18:20a real battle. Are Luton perhaps a little bit better set up or is going down to the third tier,
18:26is that cataclysmic as well, like it was for Sunderland? I don't think it'll be. I think
18:31they obviously don't want to go down the revenue and that kind of side of it. I mean, that would
18:36have a massive effect. TV money and the things. I think they would be better set up in terms of,
18:40I'm sure the players are on contracts where that's all kind of factored in if it did happen.
18:45And I think there might be some players that have contracts in the summer anyway. So,
18:49I don't think it would affect them massively because they've also got another
18:55parachute payments to come through from the Premier League as well. So, they would be
19:00okay for it. They'd obviously lose players and they'd find it hard to get straight back up again
19:03because it's not easy. But yeah, it's something they don't want to have to go
19:09through again really because they've obviously gone through the leagues and come up and
19:12the Championship is a good league for them to be in at the moment. So, they would cope.
19:18It's not what they want and they've not planned to do this. But I don't think
19:23it would sort of set them back massively. But if they can avoid it, that's the definite aim.
19:29No, absolutely. And just coming in to the Sunderland game as well, you mentioned at the
19:34the very top of the podcast that Luton's injury issues are easing a little bit. What's the latest
19:39in terms of team news? We've got the press conference tomorrow with Matt Bloomfield. So,
19:45I think the long-term wides, Ted Emengi would still be out. Tom Lockyer is not going to be
19:49playing this season. The ones, I mean, Reece Burke and Teeth Chong, they were sort of,
19:54I'm guessing, I think they are still doubts for this game because they've been out for a while as
19:58well. So, I think those are the main injury concerns for them. It has been a bit better
20:05recently. They've got people like Mads Andersen has come back now and they've actually got some
20:10options to choose from rather than just having to sort of put anyone in they can. So, I think
20:16those are the sort of the main concerns. There was none picked up and they were able to loan
20:20some players out the window as well. So, yeah, I think those are kind of the main injury concerns
20:25at the moment for them. I'm always interested to get an outsider's perspective on Sunderland
20:31season. What have been your thoughts? Where did you expect Sunderland to be at the start of the
20:36season? Have you been perhaps a little bit surprised? I know I have been, given Sunderland
20:40finished 16th at the table. Obviously, reduced libri coming in in the summer was a little bit of
20:44an unknown. It's been a pleasant season so far. But what have you made of Sunderland and this
20:49sort of approach of signing young players and upskilling them? Yeah, I mean, I can't remember
20:54exactly how I predicted the table to go. But obviously, I had loot in that pie. So, that
20:59probably is very wrong what I did anyway. But I think I thought Sunderland would be, I mean,
21:04okay. Maybe not as consistently good as they've been so far this season. And any sort of club
21:10who brings in an unknown manager, it's not always proved that well in the past. And so, I thought
21:15that would probably be a slight concern just because when you look at history and it's not
21:19worked out for certain teams. And even this season, a lot of the unknown managers beforehand
21:23have not lasted, have they? So, I think I thought they would, you always think Sunderland are going
21:28to do okay because the home crowd, it's always a difficult place for other teams to go. And having
21:32been there before, and you see that they should still be a good side at this level as well. So,
21:40yeah, I mean, I think just to stay, to start well obviously is good. But to stay there and
21:46be consistently good this season has probably been the slight surprise. But having, when I
21:51watched them at Luton and you see they're a good team and you see they can win those kind of games
21:54and you just sort of thought, yeah, they're definitely a side who they can still be up there
21:59this season. So, yeah, I mean, it's just been a really good season so far. And what's your gut
22:04telling you about Wednesday? How do you think you'll feel come full-time? Do you think Luton
22:09do have a result in them or is it a bit beyond them at the moment? Never say never, I guess.
22:13Yeah, I think the fact they drew on the weekend, had they lost to Watford, then you think probably
22:18they've had their defeat now. So, it would make it even harder. As you mentioned, the fact that
22:24they've not lost all season and Luton's away form has been how it is, then it's one of those ones
22:29where you could think, oh, it might happen. Personally, I'd be very surprised if Luton did
22:35go and win there. I mean, it's just, having seen all the away games, I'd just be as surprised if
22:41they could actually end there and they're losing or get their first win there. I think they'd be
22:46very happy with a point from the match to sort of keep the little run going. They've been on
22:51away from home in terms of one unbeaten game. So, you can't look really past a home win on this
22:58occasion. So, I'd be very surprised if Luton did come away with all three points. I think the thing
23:04that worries me that you've said, Mike, is that Luton have obviously strengthened in attacking
23:08areas. Matt Bloomfield wants to go on attack teams and ultimately Sunderland have drawn the last two
23:13at home and conceded four goals against Plymouth and Watford. So, I think that's a concern for me
23:19coming into it. Well, yeah, I forgot about the Plymouth game actually, but yeah, that is good.
23:24I mean, they do want to attack. They scored a lovely goal in their last match against Sheffield
23:29Wednesday. So, they've got attacking threats and as you mentioned, they've worked on that
23:34and the system they want to play for the last 10 days really. I think that when we spoke to Matt
23:38after the Sheffield Wednesday match, he was so happy to have that break where he could actually
23:43then get all his players in, work with what he wants to do for this game and be on for the rest
23:47of the season. So, when you put it like that then, I mean, if they can score, it's just keeping
23:53clean sheets away from home. They've only done it twice this season and that's been a real issue for
24:01them. So, maybe it's just a case of who scores the most on the day. It could be like that, I suppose.
24:06It could be. Well, thanks for joining us, Mike. Please give the listeners a flavour of where they
24:11can find you and the work you do and if they'd like to read more about Luton heading into the
24:15Sunderland game on Wednesday. Yes, all will be on lutontoday.co.uk and then on X it's
24:21lutonnews underscore ltfc. So, that's the main kind of ways to find all the coverage.
24:28Brilliant. Thank you for joining me, Mike. I wish you well after Wednesday, of course. I do hope
24:33Sunderland get the win. You can read all about the Luton time game on the Sunderland Echo
24:39website. We're also all across socials and YouTube as well and all podcast platforms
24:44and once again, thank you for joining me on The Royal Podcast. Cheers for listening.