Cardiff City insider Dafydd Pritchard joins James Copley to discuss Sunderland clash
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Hello there everybody, welcome along to the RAW podcast. My name's James Copley from the
00:24Sunderland Echo and today I'm joined by Daf Pritchard from BBC Sport Wales. He's going
00:29to be helping us preview Sunderland's game against Cardiff at the Stadium of Light in
00:33the Championship this weekend. Daf, how are you doing, my friend?
00:36I'm good, thanks. Yeah, thanks for having me along.
00:40Any time. Let's jump straight into it. Cardiff's last game against Burnley 2, 1 loss at home.
00:46For those that don't know, my dad's actually a Cardiff fan as well. I spoke to him last
00:50weekend and he says it just feels like Cardiff is sort of treading water at the moment, just
00:54above those relegation places. How do you see it?
00:57I think that could apply really for the last four or five years. It's been a pretty lean
01:03period for Cardiff. They've had back-to-back relegation fights in the last few seasons.
01:10They steadied things under Errol Bullitt last season, comfortable mid-table finish. I think
01:16the feeling among fans this coming season was that they could probably build on that.
01:22I think people recognise that a playoff push is probably beyond them, but to be back scrapping
01:29for their lives in the bottom half of the table, that wasn't what people had in mind.
01:34So Bullitt paid the price for that. He left in September and Omar Reza, who'd come in
01:40last summer just as a first-team coach, he was given the reins initially as a caretaker
01:46boss and now he's got the job, I say permanently, he's only got it until the end of the season
01:51and no-one seems to last long at Cardiff over the past decade or so. So yeah, treading
01:57water I think is a good phrase, very accurate for Cardiff at the moment. I think once again
02:01I think they'll just be happy to survive this season.
02:04But there was a big uplift, wasn't there, when Bullitt left and Omar Reza came in. That
02:09seems to have tailed off a little bit, Duff?
02:11Yeah, that's fair to say as well. There was the classic bounce. Reza, very well liked
02:16by the players, hasn't managed at this level before. Very limited managerial experience
02:23in total actually, non-league, a little bit in League Two. You can tell he's someone who's
02:28happy on the training ground. The players really responded to him and then within a
02:33month of him getting the job, they had back-to-back wins against Plymouth and Portsmouth and that
02:38got the club a bit more buoyant again. The performance levels have been better but whereas
02:45last season probably the results were better than the performance levels under Bullitt,
02:50this season is probably the reverse of that where they probably haven't got the results
02:55that the performances quite deserve. So they've looked better building attacks, they keep
03:00the ball better than they did. Maybe not so defensively solid. Clean sheets have been
03:05really rare. I think something like two in the last 24 championship fixtures they've
03:12picked up and when you don't score that many, it's not exactly a recipe for success. It's
03:18strange because you speak to fans and overall I think they'd say they've been more positive
03:24than negative about Bullitt but the results just aren't there and they're just not good
03:29enough in either box.
03:32Just looking at Cardiff's last couple of results, it almost feels like one step forward, two
03:37steps back all of the time. Cardiff lost to Portsmouth and they drew away to Bristol City
03:41which isn't a bad result. Obviously it's a little bit of a derby but the loss to Burnley
03:45beat Hull but then drew with Plymouth and Portsmouth, Plymouth and Hull are all teams
03:48around them.
03:49Yeah, exactly. We know, don't we, in the Championship that wherever you are on the table if you
03:55can string together a runner of results that can really transform your season because you've
04:00got clubs who felt like just five minutes ago looking over their shoulders at the relegation
04:06places are now plotting their route to the playoffs, that would be beyond Cardiff at
04:11this stage. But yeah, consistency has been a real struggle for them and if you look at
04:16the squad I think that's the nature of a lot of the players. Callum Robinson's been excellent,
04:20their top scorer this season but other than him the attacking players tend to blow hot
04:25and cold so someone like Ruben Colwell came through the youth ranks. Everyone at the club
04:30is desperate for him to succeed but he's just not hit the heights that some people saw him
04:36reaching when he first broke onto the scene. Someone like Oli Tanner, Anwar El Ghazi, you
04:42know, wingers with lots of talent and in El Ghazi's case, you know, Premier League experience
04:48but none of them have been able to perform at a consistent level so they've been reliant
04:53on Robinson in attack. Yusuf Salih who's come in in January, a bit of an unknown quantity
05:00to most people when he arrived from the Swedish top flight. He's a big, yeah, six foot four
05:06rangy striker and he's hit the ground running, five goals in all competitions and he's quite
05:12an old school centre forward, you know, he just wants to get in the box, score, doesn't
05:17care about the other aspects of the game really and he's gone down well with the fans. So
05:21yeah, you can see the chutes of recovery in that squad, they just haven't managed to string
05:27it together and put a decent run of results together. They're an inconsistent team but
05:31I mean the championship, I know we say it every season but it just feels even more bonkers
05:36than usual this season. You wouldn't expect to be at the start of the season.
05:43Absolutely. Can we just touch on Ruben Caldwell a little bit actually because he's a player
05:47I actually quite enjoyed watching when I've watched Cardiff this season and during that
05:51mini revival after Bullet was sacked and Omar Reza came in, I thought he was one that really,
05:56really produced the goods, still only 22. How far do you think he could go in the game
06:01and obviously as well on the flip side to that, Cardiff producing players is perhaps
06:05something they haven't done enough over the years and that's a real positive isn't it
06:08that he's coming through? Yeah, you're spot on. I think that's been a big frustration
06:13for the club's fans that they haven't seen as many youngsters come through in recent years
06:18compared to say 10, 15 years ago when you had the likes of Aaron Ramsey, Joe Ledley,
06:22Adam Matthews coming through. To be fair to them, Bullet and Reza have given chances
06:30to youngsters but Caldwell is the one who will draw the most attention to the point where
06:36when I've asked Craig Bellamy about him, he's got quite irate that the Welsh media ask him
06:42about Ruben Caldwell so much but I think it's because, you know what, it's like any club's
06:47they're desperate for the local lads to succeed, for a youth product to do well and Caldwell
06:53technically he's got it all, he can use both feet, he's brilliant at taking on a player,
06:59he can shoot from distance, he's got a great eye for a pass but physically is where he's just not
07:05up to it at the moment and that's where club and international managers have been pulling their
07:11hair out with him really. They like him as a player, it's not through lack of effort that he's
07:16maybe not registering the kind of physical data that you want from a championship player. He's
07:22had issues physically, he's had injuries, he was strangely still growing until he was maybe 19 or
07:2920 so he's for a player of that position, he's a big guy as well, he's you know best part of six
07:35foot four and it feels like he was kind of getting used to his new body almost so that kind of
07:41impacted his performances and you speak to coaches at Cardiff, Wales and opposition coaches
07:49interestingly, you know people like him. I remember Russell Martin speaking very highly of him when he
07:54brought his Southampton team here, even Jurgen Klopp had nice things to say about him after they
07:59played them in the FA Cup but it's just that feeling that he at the moment because he can't
08:05really do it physically whether that's on or off the ball that's the missing part so like definitely
08:11potential there but yeah a bit of a bit of an ethereal talent I think and I'm not sure if we'll
08:17ever see him reach the heights that some people had earmarked for him. He's from Neath as well
08:22isn't he which means you certainly wouldn't mess with him. Yeah that's right yeah yeah if you've
08:27ever come across, if you've got any mates from Neath you'll know and yeah I don't think he's quite
08:32as tough as the Neath rugby boys from that area but yeah a nice lad yeah definitely yeah.
08:39Let's zoom out a bit in terms of Cardiff City as a club. Sunderland last played Sheffield Wednesday
08:45away and I did a preview pod with Alex Miller who covers the Owls for the star in Sheffield
08:51and I feel like ownership of the two clubs Sheffield Wednesday and Cardiff City is very
08:57very similar in a sense that the owners feel quite distant but they've also been there a long time
09:02there's frustration almost bordering on apathy at the two clubs. You know Vincent Tan did lead
09:08Cardiff into the the Premier League for a season but it's been slim pickings really hasn't it since
09:12then? Yeah that's a good comparison to draw because like you said he came in, took them to the
09:18Premier League in 2013 but that was after this really controversial rebrand where he changed
09:25the club's shirts from blue to red. Some people went along with it, some people turned their back
09:31on the club, boycotted it and haven't been back since and really since then you've had this kind
09:36of fracture in the club, in the fan base. They've been good times since you know they went back
09:42to blue in 2015, Neil Warnock took them up to the Premier League in 2018 and that felt like quite a
09:49kind of unifying season. It felt like the old Cardiff then but I think as long as Vincent Tan
09:56is there there'll always be this kind of unease for a lot of fans and it's not just Tan himself.
10:02A lot of fans are unhappy with how the club is run so the chairman Mehmet Dalman and the chief
10:07executive Ken Chu they've both been there more than 10 years now and there's a feeling that
10:13they probably lack football expertise at that level. So earlier this season for example
10:20before the South Wales Derby in January there was a big protest, fans met a couple of miles away
10:26from the stadium, there's probably a few hundred maybe a thousand and they marched over to the
10:33stadium, chanted for Tan to leave and the rest of the board to leave. So before then you used the
10:40word apathy and I would say that was the case you know that attendances were falling, there was a
10:47real sense of apathy around the club but I think that has turned into anger and I think people have
10:52felt a bit more energised recently because I think everyone knows you know Cardiff aren't a club of
10:59say Sunderland's standing you know they're not going to get 40,000 every week in massive
11:04stadiums but it's a big club with a big catchment area, not many clubs around you know you've got
11:10the South Wales Valleys who historically get behind the club so it's a club with massive potential
11:15and I just think yeah a lot of damage has been done under Tan and I think it'll take a long time
11:20for that to heal and I think people just want to see a plan, I think the fans want to know what the
11:25plan is for the club going forward. Vincent Tan spent a lot of money keeping them afloat and
11:33you know a lot of fans want to see him leave but then you'd worry for the club's medium-term
11:39future if he was to because they are so reliant on him financially you know in terms of the loans
11:44that he's given them, the debt that they owe him and the same is true of Dalman to a lesser extent
11:51you know a lot of these people are financially heavily invested in the club so I think a lot
11:57of fans would like to see them go but you know you mentioned Sheffield Wednesday there there's no
12:01guarantee that you get back to the good times quickly you know I know they're going well this
12:06season and the championship has been a long time hasn't it, spent time in League One and Wednesday
12:12Sunderland you know these clubs who've been down to the third tier they are objectively bigger clubs
12:16than Cardiff you know so if they were to drop down there's no no guarantee that they'd come back so
12:22yeah I'd say it's been a pretty fraught few years here and yeah people would like to see change but
12:28there's no guarantee that that change would actually you know help the club immediately.
12:33I absolutely hear what you're saying about the the size of the club I've always thought
12:37Cardiff's a big club it's it's in a it's in a capital city as well in a huge catchment area
12:44as you mentioned it's interesting though isn't it because where is the end game for
12:49Vincent Tan what what is he getting by by holding on to the club you know I don't think he's been
12:54to a Cardiff game for quite some time either has he so like you know League One or the Premier
13:00League what is he holding on for is there interest in the club has there been interest or is it as
13:04a case of nobody being around because I often think in this era of football booming then there
13:09are definitely worse prospects than than Cardiff to take hold of and you look in Wales at Wrexham
13:15and how they're building yeah exactly and it's a good question like what is Vincent Tan holding out
13:20for there's been some interest over the last 10 years and although they've not officially said the
13:28club is for sale I think unofficially the sense from the club is if there was a big offer that
13:36Vincent Tan you know was open to then then maybe they would sell there's also a case of is there
13:43a degree of like sunken cost fallacy with it you know is he does he feel like he's in too deep and
13:49does he feel like they need to get back to the Premier League before he can sell
13:53because he has spent so much money on the project but as you said he's a very distant
13:59owner in the sense that I don't think he's been here this season he was here for the Boxing Day
14:05game last season I know he speaks to the manager and the chairman and the chief exec frequently but
14:14that's another criticism that's leveled against Tan and his board that then none of them are here
14:21all that often you know you don't often see Mehmet Dalman and Ken Chua games either and when
14:26you don't have a kind of sporting director or director of football then there's a feeling that
14:32above the manager there's no real you know football authority there so yeah again come
14:38back to treading water you know your opening question I think there's there's a feeling that
14:42Vincent Tan maybe himself is kind of treading water I want to keep this club afloat it's too
14:47it's too costly an asset for me to just get rid of but at the moment there's been no kind of
14:54firm or serious interest elsewhere but you get the impression that
14:58like you said you'd imagine it's a decent prospect if you want to invest in a club
15:04there's there's a chance for growth there isn't there if you're buying in the championship or
15:07lower rather than the Premier League but as things stand yeah I think the club in general
15:13top of the bottom is kind of treading water. It's sad isn't it the sort of 100 year old plus
15:20institutions of British football are solely reliant on one man and if that man decides to
15:25to pull the plug as Ellis Short did with with Sunderland it can it can go wrong. We'll quickly
15:30move on to current affairs Cardiff's form against Sunderland does amuse me as I say especially with
15:36my my father and brother being Cardiff fans they've won the last two games 1-0 at the stadium
15:42of light but Sunderland have won their last three in Cardiff so it's it's it's very mixed
15:48isn't it the form between the two teams what are you expecting Daf? Although I don't
15:56necessarily think the results will carry on in the same pattern I wouldn't be surprised if the kind
16:01of the the pattern of the game carried in the same way because those 1-0 wins were your archetypal
16:08kind of smash into it yeah and there was a lot of that in the bullet you know your glass half
16:15full types would say it was a team that had good resilience your glass half empty would say they
16:22were cheating the underlying stats the xg wasn't good enough and eventually that that came to
16:28fruition at the start of this season you know Sunderland are going great guns I've really enjoyed
16:33watching them this season so you'd expect them to have the better of the game Cardiff have a
16:39funny team when they come up against big teams on the one hand you think they'd be well set up to
16:45try and soak up a bit of pressure hit teams on the counter but they've come unstuck doing that
16:50recently they've not been kind of defensively solider for that I mean Leeds United was a horror
16:56they lost 7-0 away and there was a feeling you know you chat into club staff coaches players
17:05they didn't dismiss it completely but there was a kind of feeling that you can almost park that
17:09just because Leeds are so strong but I think they'll they'll in for a long afternoon I think
17:15at Sunderland who are you know flying this season and I'm sure it could get a little bit twitchy if
17:21it takes a while to score but Cardiff have started games poorly recently as well I think that's a
17:26big part of it so you know think of Portsmouth away such an important game two clubs towards
17:31the bottom of the table and Cardiff are 2-0 down after 15 minutes so they've got this tendency to
17:38start slowly and improve as games go on but I imagine if they start slowly and let Sunderland
17:45score you know it could be a long afternoon for them I think so I think yeah I'm not exactly
17:51you know reinventing the wheel but I imagine Sunderland would be strong favourites yeah.
17:57It's interesting you say that actually because Sunderland's home form is dipped off a little bit
18:01in recent times obviously the loss to Hull City there was disappointing draws against Plymouth
18:06and Watford as well just off the top of my head but Sunderland against Hull and in general at
18:10home tend to start bright and that Hull City game was weird because Sunderland sort of dominated
18:16for about the opening eight or nine minutes Hull City weathered the storm and after that
18:20Sunderland sort of really retreated into the shell so I reckon if Cardiff can can gain some
18:26confidence maybe in that opening 20 minutes and put on a good defensive display given what's
18:30happened in the past with with this Cardiff team a lot of which are the same players actually that
18:34I think it could be potentially a little bit of a a long afternoon for Sunderland.
18:38Sunderland really need to win these two home games they've got Cardiff on Saturday
18:42Preston on Tuesday they're eight points behind Sheffield United so that they're looking like
18:46they're going to need a big swing you have to win those two home games which as we know in football
18:51and in the championship and just with Sunderland in general it's never that simple so that's my
18:55worry to have coming into the game. Yeah and it's interesting you mentioned the Hull game because I
18:59was thinking about that because they won there not long before I'm not even sure it was immediately
19:04before it came down to Cardiff and they were dreadful Hull it was a it was a terrible game
19:10first half was one of the worst I've seen in a long time even Omar Rizzo himself said
19:15his eyes were hurting after the first half. That's a great quote. Which tells you everything really
19:22so yeah that's the one thing that Cardiff can kind of cling on to maybe that you know might
19:29get a little bit frustrating for Sunderland if they don't have their way straight away
19:33I think they'd be better off having a go Cardiff because I think they've shown that they're not
19:37really capable of holding better teams at the moment so they're better off I think.
19:42I think Sunderland would prefer that though I think they look really good when they can
19:47hit teams on the break they look they have looked at times better away from home
19:52certainly in an attacking sense when they've got a little bit of room on the break.
19:56Yeah and Cardiff came a cropper against that exact approach didn't they here on the opening
20:03weekend so you know there's quality in that Sunderland team as well and they looked like
20:08a well-coached team whenever I've watched them this season you know even in the games I've seen
20:11them lose there's a there's a clear idea of how they want to play and you've got you know enough
20:16individual quality in that team haven't you to make a difference whereas yeah with Cardiff
20:22Rizzo has tried different approaches he's tried different formations you know he's played three
20:27at the back he's gone four at the back he's tried midfielders in defense and vice versa
20:32so he's left no stone unturned but you're just not sure if they've really got the makeup to
20:39soak up too much pressure so it'll be that fine balance of yeah not leaving yourselves open to
20:45Sunderland who are clearly a superior team but you know trying to pose enough of a threat that
20:51they're not just kind of inviting pressure all game because yeah that hasn't gone well for them
20:56at times recently. If you had to hang your hat on a formation for Cardiff on Saturday what would
21:02it be and I guess the question's twofold in a sense as well you mentioned that game on the
21:07opening day that was back in August now so what are the key differences between Cardiff then and
21:11Cardiff now? I think the key differences are yeah you mentioned shape there that has changed so Rizzo
21:18particularly away from home has used a winning back system mainly I think because maybe there
21:26wasn't the trust in the centre backs that there was previously you've got personnel changes so
21:34someone like Andy Rinomoto was completely on the periphery under Bullock a central midfielder by
21:40trade but he's had a great second half to the season playing as a right back under Rizzo and
21:48there's a bit more of an emphasis on keeping the ball trying to play it into wide areas and trying
21:55to be a bit more expansive in an attacking sense so you might see them line up with three at the back
22:02Rinomoto and Callum O'Dowda as the wing backs maybe they've signed a guy called Sivert
22:10and Manswerk on loan from Ajax and he looks like a decent prospect in central midfield
22:16Adam Ramsey's back from injury and he's shown you know glimpses of his quality since he's come back
22:23so you might expect to see him alongside Manswerk then in attack it's tended to be quite a kind of
22:30fluid front three of kind of three kind of wide forwards any one of any three I'm sorry like Callum
22:37Robinson has been playing down the middle quite a lot Kian Ashford young academy product 20 year old
22:43nippy wide forwards been been decent recently and then whoever's fit out of Will Alves who they've
22:50signed on loan from Leicester on the left or El Ghazi or Chris Willock but what we've had
22:55recently is Yusuf Salih has come in and offered something slightly different so a more kind of
23:01physical outlet up front so given his goal scoring form recently I'd expect maybe Salih to start up
23:09front if Callum Robinson is fit you'd expect to see him maybe play off him and then maybe
23:16Kian Ashford on on the other wing so Reza's trying to look for that combination of pace and goals
23:23which has been so lacking in that team recently but I'd say that's the difference trying to attack
23:29a bit more a bit more pace few more goals in the team and probably a change of shape as well but
23:35watch them play with a back four and sit back now I've said all that yeah you mentioned Aaron Ramsey
23:40being back from injury how important could he be for for Cardiff in the running with obviously
23:46fighting a relegation bottom I think it could be massive I think even when he joined you know most
23:53fans taking emotion out of it and you know the golden boy coming back to his boyhood club they
24:01knew that with his injury record he wasn't going to play 30 40 games a season but I don't think
24:06they're expecting him to be absent as much as he has he's barely played this season at all I
24:13don't think he's even to double figures yet for certainly if not for starts and Reza's said that
24:20you know he's not at a point now in his career perhaps ever again where he can play Saturday
24:25Tuesday and repeat it so they're trying to wrap him up in Cottonwall best as they can
24:31so he'll mainly play Saturday to Saturday and usually will only last an hour to 70 minutes
24:37if they can help it but what you do find is that he's just got these moments of quality
24:42they can still call on so I did the game against Bristol City a few weeks ago and it was just when
24:47he was coming back and then it looked like Bristol City were going to hold on for a 1-0 win even
24:53though Cardiff had had arguably more of the game Ramsey comes on Bristol City has sat deep but he's
24:58that one player who can unlock the defense with a through ball and eventually leads to the to the
25:03equalizer so he will be important I think they're not reliant on him because they know that he's fit
25:09so rarely but when he is available I think he's a potential difference maker and sometimes you have
25:14to you know kind of pinch yourself you're like you've got a fighting relegation in the championship
25:19and you're bringing on Aaron Ramsey for little 20-minute cameos so yeah perhaps he could be
25:25the difference and yeah I think I think the squad in general there's enough quality there to
25:30to see a clear but it's just such a dogfight at the moment down there yeah absolutely and how are
25:35Cardiff City looking otherwise in terms of injuries heading into the Sutherland game
25:39they have been pretty unlucky with injuries recently especially in defense they've been
25:45they've been short of centre-backs there so the likes of Jesper Dahland he's been injured
25:54they've had injuries in midfield as well people like David Turnbull are long-term absentees and
26:00then the likes of Callum Robinson and Will Alvarez have been out with these little niggles so it
26:06feels like Rhys has never really had a fully fit squad to choose from they've had a couple of
26:12suspensions recently as well and the goalkeeper Jack Arnick he's he's out for the season now so
26:18Ethan Horvath's been deputizing for him so it does feel like some things hit them just at the
26:25right just at the wrong moment at different points this season so it's a little bit patched up in
26:31places but you know not not ravaged by injury like they were say around Christmas January time so
26:38yeah a few injury concerns but not as bad as it's been at points this season. I forgot about Jack
26:44Arnick actually he's ex-Sunderland youth teamer ex-Newcastle United youth teamer his brother Ben
26:49played for Sunderland that that feels like a big blow actually because I remember speaking to me
26:53my dad and brother about that and they were really really impressed with with Jack Arnick and when
26:57he was dropped by Bullitt they were pretty annoyed. Yeah yeah I remember his brother playing for
27:03Sunderland actually yeah and um Jack Arnick himself you know he's he's he's been an excellent signing
27:10they brought him in initially two or three years ago as someone to probably play backup
27:16but he's not just played really well but he's a really popular figure at the club as well he's
27:21actually capped in quite a lot this season and he's had a really good really good season I think
27:26I and most fans and other media probably thought that he was harshly treated to lose his place
27:33under Bullitt. Horvath then made quite a few big mistakes and since Arnick's come back in he's he's
27:40never looked back really and he's had a really good season so yeah losing him was a blow although
27:47Horvath so far hasn't dropped the clangers that he did previously so it's not been as big a blow
27:54as it might have been and um yeah but definitely a popular figure and just signed a new contract
27:59as well Arnick so um yeah hopefully you'll see him next season in a championship fixture.
28:05Well fantastic Daf, thank you for joining me please tell me a little bit more about yourself
28:09where people can find your work if they want to read a bit more about Cardiff in the build-up to
28:14the game. Well thanks for having me um yeah so I work for BBC Sport Wales mainly uh writing for
28:20the BBC Sport website um but if you're ever in Wales like your dad is James you can probably see
28:27me on our TV news channels and radio stations as well but yeah if you do want to know more about
28:34Cardiff then give me a follow at Daf Pritchard on X or you can follow us at Sport Wales and you'll
28:42have all the latest on on Cardiff there but yeah looking forward to the game and hopefully we can
28:47do this all again next season. Well actually no you'll want to be in the Premier League sorry I
28:52correct myself yeah yeah that would be ideal but I do I must admit I do enjoy a trip to uh to South
28:58Wales twice a season because I went to uni in Swansea as well so it's a it's a special place
29:03to be down there but yeah Premier League would be nice, Anfield away and stuff would be would be
29:07canny but um I'm holding uh I'm not uh making any predictions on that front just in case you
29:12couldn't see Sunderland back there honestly I've uh I've loved having the Sunderland fans down at
29:18Cardiff because I've covered Swansea as well so uh yeah yeah yeah they're a great club together
29:23and uh yeah hope to see you soon whether it's you guys in the Premier League and then
29:28you know Cardiff and Swansea hopefully not treading water in the Championship.
29:33No good stuff thank you very much for for joining us thanks to the listener you can find all of the
29:37build-up to the Sunderland-Cardiff game over at the Sunderland Echo website please check out BBC
29:41Sport Wales as well and thank you once again for joining us.