Derby County guru Dominic Dietrich joins James Copley to preview Sunderland game
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00:00Hello, welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by the Southern Echo. My name's James
00:24Joining me today to preview the Derby County game is the BBC's Dominic Dietrich. I think I've got
00:30that pronunciation right. Apologies if I haven't. Dom, how are you doing? Thanks for joining us.
00:35Yeah, pronunciation was fine. Thank you for having me. No, it's a pleasure. Looking forward
00:39to it. I think I'm going to enjoy this slightly more possibly than Sunderland's trip to Pride
00:43Park. So I think, yeah, I think we've made a good start here. Good stuff. Well, let's jump straight
00:50into it then. So Derby County, how's the season gone so far? I know it's your first back in the
00:54championship after two seasons in League One. And I guess my question is twofold. How horrible is
01:00League One? Because we're quite well aware of that up in Sunderland. And how's it go to the
01:04championship for you? I think League One was an experience, definitely. It was an experience that
01:10Derby fans wanted over quicker than they got originally, even though they came back after
01:16two seasons, a lot wanted out straight away. I'm sure you'll know being a Sunderland follower and
01:22those that listen to your podcast. But it was tough. It was really tough. So I think it was
01:29brilliant of Derby in the situation that they were in, in administration going down into
01:35League One, coming back, completely rebuilding the club and then bringing in a head coach in
01:39Paul Warne that's got promoted at every attempt from the third tier. The question is now with
01:45Derby, now that they're back into the championship, is taking that next step and making themselves a
01:51competitor in the championship. At the moment, they're fighting the drop. That is simply the
01:57end goal this season in the second tier. They need to survive. They need to make sure they're there
02:02again next season. And whilst they made a really good start to life back in the championship,
02:08it started to slow down a little bit. So four wins in the last 22 matches,
02:14three defeats in a row in the league, a cup exit at Leyton Orient as well. So they need to
02:22switch back on and get some of their first team players back. But I'm sure they will. And back
02:26to back home games for the Rams is normally a very good thing. Yeah, we are recording this before
02:33Sunderland's game against Burnley and obviously Derby play at the weekend as well. So who knows
02:37the picture might look a bit different by then. But just on Paul Warner, you mentioned them. How
02:41has he seen in Derby? Because with Derby being such a big club, I obviously followed the story
02:46heading down into the third tier. Lots of parallels with Sunderland. Obviously, we ended up doing four
02:50seasons there, which was horrendous, horrific. It was awful. But what struck me following you
02:56a couple of seasons ago in League One and last season as well was there was a little bit of
03:01discontent around his playing style and his methods. And I always find that interesting because
03:06from an outside perspective, I thought, well, that doesn't make sense. But it's always different
03:11for match-going fans, isn't it? What was that all about? It was about the expectation levels
03:18around Derby cancer. I think there was a particular day in October at Stevenage where Paul Warner was
03:22met by abuse from the away end at full time. They'd been beaten on the day. They were outside
03:27the playoffs marginally, which kind of sets the tone for what the expectation was like.
03:34Stevenage were above them at the time. They were beaten and there were calls for Paul Warner to
03:39lose his job. And I remember speaking to him after that game. And there was a moment after the
03:44post-match interview where the owner, David Clouds, walked down the stairs at Stevenage, put his arm
03:49around Paul Warner and said, what are you worried about? What is the matter? You're doing fine.
03:56And from that point onwards, no team other than Derby cancer got more points in the Football
04:01League and they went on to get promoted second in the table. He needed bodies in January. They
04:07signed Ibu Adams, who is the holding midfielder that you will likely see at Pride Park on Tuesday
04:12night. And he became a real key asset. He made a complete change to the way it looks.
04:18But the discontent came around the expectation and almost that reality check. And I'm sure you
04:24had it with Sunderland when you go into the third tier and it's years of being a promotion contender
04:30in the championship. Suddenly administration happens. Suddenly the club is rebuilding from
04:35scratch and it doesn't have as much money as it once had. And it needs to be quick. It needs to
04:40happen straight away. And as we know in football, it doesn't always happen straight away, despite
04:46the desires of supporters and those following the club to make these things happen. So
04:52it was a reality check. I think that's the best way to put it, being down in the third tier.
04:57But the playing style has left a few people still with the jury out on Paul Warne. There's a real
05:05divide in the fan base. And there are some people that simply never accepted him since coming in
05:12from Rotherham, whether he can make the step up to a big club in inverted commas in Derby County
05:19and deal with that and be tactically astute. So those people that didn't particularly rate him
05:25back then still don't now. And in the fan base, it's often a real cause for division. And we saw
05:33it recently at Bristol City. Derby put in a pretty lifeless performance at Ashton Gate. They were
05:38beaten with absolute ease. They barely laid a glove on the home side. And the fans were arguing
05:46at half time. There were some shouts towards Paul Warne from a minority. And it even led to
05:53scraps in train stations. So it's getting quite heated. And you just wonder what will happen if
06:01Derby aren't successful in the next two home games and if it all comes to a head on Tuesday night
06:06at Sunderland. He's not under pressure, though. He's not under pressure from the owner, David
06:11Clowes, the CEO, Stephen Pearce, that they're not going to make a change as it stands because
06:17they've invested in him. This is sometimes hard for Derby fans to hear, but they were in
06:22administration two years ago. It doesn't just happen overnight. You can't just rebuild a whole
06:28squad. And Paul Warne is still dealing with a group of players, a lot of which were brought
06:34in on a free. And slowly, bit by bit, they're adding pieces. He's been waiting two and a half
06:40years to sign a target man. He's been in the job for two and a half years. Every transfer window,
06:46I've spoken to him about the fact that they need a target man and they haven't been able to do it.
06:51They finally got one. So that kind of puts into context the journey he's been on. And he took over
06:57a side in September, wasn't it, when he got the job that he hadn't recruited that went for his
07:02playing style. So there's been this real slow evolution. And I think Paul Warne took the job
07:07at Derby to level up his career. And I think Derby saw Paul Warne as someone that can act
07:13sustainably and on a budget and almost went down to a rather thought process in not spending a lot
07:20and trying to get by. So it's been a really interesting time, but he's been successful.
07:27And I guess from the outside, looking in the perception of Paul Warne, possibly from Derby
07:32County fans, is this guy's excellent in League One. He's got a number of promotions on his CV,
07:38but is he good enough for the Championship? He's almost become a victim of his own success in the
07:42way he's perceived, not just at Derby County, but generally in the footballing world as well.
07:47Yeah. And for every time he's been promoted to League One, he's been relegated in the
07:51Championship. So that's the harsh reality. And there is a bit of a lack of trust, maybe,
07:56when things start to slide and when things start to go wrong, that does he have the capability to
08:01actually bail Derby out of this and keep them in the division? Because it would be a first for him.
08:07Again, it's the reason he came to Derby County in the first place, because he wanted to prove
08:11himself at the higher level, but he's having to do it on a bit of a shoestring budget as it stands,
08:18as they slowly add pieces. So, look, it's going to be one of those seasons where one week
08:24he is the best thing since sliced bread. The next week, God, get him out. And it's
08:31honestly, from a media point of view, and I'm not sure if you had it with Sunderland, it's been
08:35difficult to navigate because you're trying to find somewhere in the middle. And it's really
08:42hard. It is quite hard. It's hard to be the middling voice when everything's so polarised,
08:47isn't it? Oh, exactly. And well, fortunately, so that's our job. And it's a great job at that. But
08:55yeah, it's been really divisive. And just from Paul Warren, in terms of like your relationship
09:03with him and from a professional perspective and standpoint, I remember he's come up to the
09:07stadium a couple of times with Rotherham over the years and Derby County as well. And this is just
09:13sort of my very basic analysis of him as a bloke, but he comes across so well in press conferences.
09:20He always has a joke. He's affable. He's never really too annoyed. He comes across as very human.
09:26He always seems to have his guard down. I remember he cracked a joke after the press conference at
09:31the Stadium of Lights earlier in the season because Sunderland had done quite well and Derby
09:34hadn't offered much. As soon as the press conference ended, he cracked a joke. He got a
09:38laugh out of everybody. He seems like a really nice guy. I know that doesn't necessarily matter
09:43in terms of his fans' perspective, but it makes a difference for us, doesn't it?
09:47Absolutely. I've never dealt with a manager like him. I think that's fair to say. Every press
09:53conference and I've been to see him this morning, which is why I put the time for us to do this a
09:58little later in the afternoon because you never know how long it's going to go on for because
10:02often he talks to you off the record for a long time and a lot of managers do that,
10:07but he does it in a different way. It's personable. It's everyday problems. It's not just
10:14why always me. It's everyday problems. It's finding out about you, talking to you and being
10:20interested, but he is really good at bringing you in and letting you in on some issues he's having
10:30or things he wants to do with the club going forward and making you feel a part of the picture.
10:38The tough time has been, and I think for him at Rotherham, it was a bit different. He was
10:44Rotherham United manager and you've got BBC Radio Sheffield there and Rotherham United,
10:50just through nature of size of the club, might fall down the pecking order to a Wednesday
10:55United, Barnsley and so on. He's come to Derby now where we spend five days a week
11:02talking about Derby County and exactly what they do. We have a daily podcast that tells you about
11:08Derby County on the Rams daily and then you have the paper as well. You have a variety of people
11:14that are focused on this one club, this one team, and it brings in 29,000 every weekend. So I think
11:21that has been a real strange step for him to navigate and it did take some time for him to
11:26realise that. He definitely does now because it's been quite a two and a half years for him,
11:32but honestly he is brilliant and he's a great person and he offers a lot of himself to people
11:40which often gets thrown back at him when it goes wrong and that's where I think the line needs to
11:45be drawn a little bit with it because it gets personal and I don't think it would get as
11:48personal if he didn't offer as much of himself to people. So yeah look, he tells you a number
11:55of stories of going back to Norfolk, his dog Chief, what he's watched on on his Wednesday
12:00cinema trips because he always goes to the cinema on a Wednesday. There's a lot to go
12:06at but it's never dull. It is never dull and sometimes he shoots himself in the foot
12:10and says something and so on, but yeah I don't think we'd want it any other way.
12:17Just going off piece slightly and we'll get back to Derby County and the game against Sunderland,
12:23but does that sort of rub off Paul Warne and him being so friendly, does that perception of you,
12:28does that get you criticism from fans sometimes because I know when you're perceived to be
12:34friendly and pally-pally it can go the other way can't it when things aren't too good?
12:39Yeah and I think that can be the perception, but as long as you know in your heart of hearts that
12:45you trust in your gut and we've had moments where we have had to really ask some questions and get
12:53into it, I think it's just picking the right moments, but yeah I think where he is so friendly
12:58and where it can be quite personable, that line then does become interesting to tread.
13:06We're not afraid to tread it, we're in a great position with Paul and our relationship, but
13:12yeah I think you are right and you've definitely done this job for long enough to realise that
13:18fans can have a point of view, but no I think he respects that we've got a job to do and we
13:24respect that he has, so yeah it can get interesting I'll say that.
13:29Yeah absolutely, let's drill down into the game a little bit, how do Derby play under Paul Warne
13:36and how have they sort of tended to utilise the formation this season? I've noticed a lot of five
13:42at the back from Derby and the Championship. That has been away from home, at home they've
13:47been a lot of four at the back and I think one of the biggest issues with Paul Warne at Derby
13:53is when you just said then how does he play, I don't think you can really put your finger on it.
14:01Yeah away from home it's a certain way that seems to nullify the opposition and you might have seen
14:07at the Stadium of Light, although they gifted the ball to Joe Bellingham and he did what he did
14:13afterwards, it's very much low block and wait for the opponent to try and break you down,
14:20whereas at home they're on the front foot and they're at it. It seems like so far this season
14:25they play a fast brand of football, they press high at the pitch and they want to get the ball
14:30moving and forward as quickly as possible. Paul Warne doesn't want to have the ball for the ball's
14:36sake, he's very direct and he wants to get it up there. It could possibly, and this is not knowing
14:41what's going to happen in the Watford game before Sunderland, be a derby for the new Norwegian
14:46striker Solvarsson who's come in, who is meant to be a big focal point and a target man, so that
14:53might change how direct they are, but a lot of the time it's goalkeeper, out's Curtis Nelson,
14:59passes it across to Aaron Cashin, he will attempt a diagonal pass up the pitch, he'll either get cut
15:05out or not and Derby will get on their way. Ibu Adams is a player that is fundamental off the
15:12ball, on the ball though, Kenzo Houdminer, the Dutch midfielder, is probably the most
15:18impressive on it, but it's wide, get the ball out, crosses into the box and try and try again.
15:27Yeah, that's interesting that you mentioned about Derby's formation being different home
15:31and away. Obviously Sunderland play Burnley on Friday night, we're recording this on Thursday,
15:37I think Rajeev Slibri will probably go back to his favourite 4-3-3 formation, he has been playing
15:42a little bit of 4-4-2 which has worked well at home, owing to necessity really there's been
15:47injuries and suspensions in the middle of the park, but Sunderland now have a few options back,
15:51so I'm expecting to go 4-3-3 against Burnley and if I had to hang my hat on it I would say
15:56we'll probably do the same thing at Derby County. Just interestingly though, you mentioned Derby
16:02playing four at the back at home, with Sunderland doing so well and being so potent on the attack,
16:07would he be likely to change that for the home tie against Sunderland, or will he stick to his
16:13principles there? I still think they'll go with a four against Sunderland, they do. They look a lot
16:21better at home, simply put, they've won away a game all season, they haven't had much to write
16:27home about on the road at all. There was a game at Luton Town where they performed brilliantly and
16:33they were 1-0 up going into the last few minutes and they lost 2-1, but at home they've looked
16:39pretty comfortable, they've looked like a strong team and they look capable of breaking teams down
16:45and they've beaten some decent sides there as well. Middlesbrough was a back to the war job
16:50after Middlesbrough gifted Cade and Jackson the opportunity to ran the keeper and score,
16:55Bristol City, Portsmouth, West Brom, other games that they've looked really good in.
17:02Leeds United recently, league leaders, came to Pride Park and Derby went at them. I didn't think
17:09there was much of a choice because they went to Allen Road a couple of weeks before and Paul
17:13Wong called the side a league one team with a bit of sugar on top, as they barely put a glove on
17:20them, so I think they had to come out and show something. But no, I don't think they'll hide,
17:23I don't think they'll hide against Sunderland. I think they'll respect you and I think they'll
17:28respect how good some of the technical players are and they'll be mindful of that, but I think
17:34they'll still approach it with that fore and go for it. That's interesting, yeah, I think that
17:40could make for a pretty good game actually if what you're saying turns out to come to fruition.
17:47Just touching on a wider point generally about Derby and the Championship, but do you feel like
17:52Derby has sort of grown into the Championship a little bit since the last game against Sunderland?
17:56I think there was only three games played and it was way back at the start of the season,
18:01but what's your gut feeling about where this season is going to end up for Derby?
18:06Oh, I think they'll survive. I think they've got enough to survive. The next two games will be
18:11interesting because they have been on a really poor run of form, four wins in the last 22 going
18:17into the Saturday game against Watford, but I think they'll have enough if they can win their
18:23home games and if they can get results at home. I think away from home they've got some big games
18:29coming up, Cardiff City one of them, where they need to go and try and show something that they
18:35haven't. But no, I think this side will stay up. I think they're in a decent position, four points
18:42clear, but it might be closer than I first expected after the way they started the season.
18:49I think it could go down to the wire, which won't be fun, but I just think the way it's going,
18:56there are some pretty good teams in the Champ and teams are strengthening around Derby, they're
19:03making signings and so on, so different teams will have ups and downs. But interestingly, when you
19:08look at the last 10 games, there are four teams below Derby that have had a worse run of form
19:14than Derby, so a lot of Rams fans will be saying that Derby are in relegation form. When you look
19:20at the last 10 games, there are four teams worse than them. Paul Ward said this morning actually,
19:26you know, teams in the relegation zone and in the battle normally average a point a game,
19:30so the games that you can win are massive, so they'll need to be the ones at home.
19:36And do you worry, actually, I was going to ask you about the teams around you,
19:40do you worry that a couple of them might be able to push on? Obviously, Stoke City
19:44under new management, Lewitton Town under new management. My dad's actually a Cardiff City fan,
19:50so I've seen a lot of Cardiff City play this season. I personally think they're really poor
19:55and definitely a candidate for the job. Hull City have signed a couple of players. Portsmouth,
20:00to me, look like one that could potentially definitely go down. I think they're up there
20:04with Cardiff in terms of one of the worst teams I've seen. I know they did pull their form sort
20:10of back to the brink under the manager, but it seems to have dropped off again and Plymouth
20:15Argyll seem to be doomed. Somebody will probably clip that when they stay up on the last day.
20:21But are you worried about the teams around you? Just thinking of particularly Hull,
20:24obviously they've managed to sign the likes of Joe Gelhardt, a player Sunderland fans know,
20:28but there does seem to be a little bit of movement down the bottom in terms of
20:32managerial incomings and players as well. I was looking into this a couple of days ago
20:38just for one of our shows here. I think every team that went down last season had a manager change,
20:43so whilst it might have a little spike, it's whether they can sustain it, whether Gary Rowett
20:50could sustain that at Oxford United the way they've started there. I think Lewitton Town are
20:55going to be the team and, as you say, Hull. Just due to their resources, they shouldn't really be
21:00there. I think Lewitton have spent a ridiculous amount of money to be where they are and that
21:05would suggest why Rob Edwards is gone. I just think there are three teams worse than Derby.
21:13I think we've seen at Pride Park, you mentioned Cardiff, their Queensfield Rangers were won
21:20when they came to Pride Park this season. But it's just, as you know in the Championship,
21:27momentum is everything. If you go on a run of bad defeats or good defeats, it can really shape
21:33your season. Derby are just in that rut and Derby need to get out of it and just show something and
21:40get the points that their performance deserves. Whether that'll be against Sunderland, I think
21:46it'll be a very big ask. But I just think the Championship's really difficult. It's such a
21:54tough league. There's so many good teams and every team you come up against, I kind of match
21:59up with Derby's and I say, look, right, so how many players in this one will get into this Derby
22:03team? And often, not many Derby players would get into the opposition team and it just shows a
22:10little bit about the calibre of player that Paul Worm really has on offer. So yeah, I'm not too
22:19worried. I wouldn't use that word right now. Ask me in two months, possibly.
22:25Yeah, it's really funny, you know, you mentioned about momentum in the Championship and Sunderland
22:29obviously finished 16th place last season, had a dire second half to the season. Under an interim
22:35manager under Michael Beale, Rajeesh Labreece comes in during the summer. You know Sunderland
22:40have got some technically gifted players that do sign a few as well, but you're looking at it and
22:43it's the great unknown and you're looking at that opening day against Cardiff City, wondering if
22:47Sunderland could get a result. They managed to and then they go on a superb run and don't lose
22:52until they face Plymouth Argyll away. They beat Burnley, they beat Portsmouth, all of a sudden
22:56it's the best league start in God knows how many years. But if they had not won that first league
23:01game against Cardiff away, then the confidence starts to shake a little bit. So yeah, I take
23:06your point, the momentum is so, so, so important. How are Derby lining up, Dom, in terms of injuries,
23:11by the way? Well, interestingly this morning, it looks like, well, definitely inside the Sunderland
23:17Erin Cashin and Ryan Neamby will be back. Nat Phillips, the centre-half, has come into the
23:23team whilst Erin Cashin has been out. He picked up a knock on Tuesday, so he's going to be touch
23:28and go for Saturday. He's having treatment on an issue at the moment, so whether he'll be back in
23:35time, that'll be one to watch. David Ozo, the midfielder on line from Crystal Palace, is due
23:40to start training again on Monday, so I imagine Tuesday will be far too soon for him. And then
23:46it's the new striker, Solvarsson, whether he's going to be available to make a debut, a cameo
23:52performance on Saturday and potentially more against Sunderland on Tuesday, we'll have to
23:57wait and see. But yeah, other than that, they're looking in good nick and I think Paul Warne is
24:03relieved to have quite a few of his players back. And tell us about the new striker, where's he come
24:09from, how much does he cost? He comes highly rated, I gather. Lars-Jørgen Solvarsson from Viking
24:15FK in Norway. He is 28 years old, he's played his whole career out in Norway and Derby, from what
24:23we understand, paid £800,000 for him, which hasn't been the case for a long time. Derby have been
24:31essentially going abroad for a lot of their signings recently due to the lack of value for
24:36money. I know they were in for Michael Kone at Wickham, but that was too much. So they've had to
24:44look overseas and try and find this one out. And this has been a deal that's been going on for the
24:49last couple of weeks. But he is a big man, six foot one, long, long locks, as you'd imagine.
24:58Everyone, of course, compared him to Erling Haaland, unfairly. But he is a man that's going
25:04to head it. And honestly, Paul Warren, for two and a half years, has been praying for a man that can
25:10come in, head the ball, have a bit of physical presence at the top end of the pitch, and looks
25:14like he's finally got him. And he knows where the net is, I think he scored 12 goals in his last season.
25:19But the issue is that the Norwegian campaign ended on December the 1st, so he's very much in his
25:26pre-season right now. So that's going to be interesting to see how he settles in. But yeah,
25:33English is great. He seems like a good laugh as well. And I'll get to meet him before the
25:40Sunderland game, actually, and do an interview with him on BBC Radio Derby, if any Sunderland
25:44fans are interested. I can guarantee you there will be Sunderland fans in Derby, living in Derby,
25:50that we get all over the place. Fantastic. Well, download the Rams Daily podcast as well.
25:58No, excellent, definitely. And just, we've talked a lot about Derby, but
26:02just from a Sunderland point of view, Dom, who worries you, who stood out in the last game
26:08against Derby at the Stadium of Light, if you've had an opportunity to see Sunderland anymore
26:12over the Championship season? Who worries you and who stood out?
26:16All of them. All of them. No, I mean, I don't want to say, because it's obviously
26:24an easy one to go to, Joe Bellingham scored that rocket against Derby. I mean, a question for you,
26:32is he actually that good? Or is he just called Bellingham? Because that's the thing from an
26:39outsider looking in, all the talk every time he does something is about Joe Bellingham.
26:42And I often think, has he actually got what it takes to back it up?
26:48No, no, I get the question. I think it's twofold in a sense that being called Bellingham has
26:54definitely raised his profile. But I actually would argue that the name is now a hindrance
26:58in terms of his performances are so good. I wrote a stats piece on the Sunderland Echo.
27:03He's right up there in terms of interceptions, doing the dirty work. He progresses the ball.
27:09His physical attributes, he's started to win headers. He's got a goal in him. He's got an
27:13assist in him. And that name, Bellingham, and where his brother is at the moment,
27:18means people are questioning whether he's good enough. And he absolutely is. He's fantastic.
27:21He's one of the best players in the Championship. For me, one of the best midfielders,
27:25one of the brightest prospects in the country. He came to Sunderland as a 17-year-old and he's on
27:30his second full season as a 19-year-old, playing regularly in the Championship. I think he's
27:35magnificent, to be honest. But yeah, it's a strange one because you do get fans from other clubs
27:41saying, why is he being linked with this team and that team? It's clearly just because of his
27:45brother. And I completely disagree. I think the name is actually probably hampering him a little
27:50bit at the moment in terms of how he's perceived from a wider Championship point of view. But I
27:55think those that watch him regularly will understand that he's a very, very good player.
28:01Still lots to learn and a lot of development to do, but I'm hugely excited by him. The natural
28:07comparison will always be to his brother, but his brother's a bit of a freak of nature in his
28:13own right. He's a world-class player. He's done what he's done. He's won the European Cup.
28:17But I think Job can do good things in the game. I think he could play for England. I don't want to
28:23put too much pressure on him. I'm not going to say he'll end up at Real Madrid one day and play
28:27under Carlo Ancelotti or anything like that, but I think there's at the very minimum a future
28:32England international there for me. Yeah, I mean, he was really impressive in the game at the Stadium
28:37of Leicester and I can't say I've watched a lot of Sunderland this season, but every time I have
28:42seen him, he looks a really good player. He's just tidy, isn't he? He looks like he affects
28:49games and that's all you want, don't you, from a midfielder. So I would definitely put him
28:55as the main threat. I'm trying to remember the chap who played on the left-hand side
29:00on that night at the Stadium of Light.
29:04Oh, Romain Mundel? Yes, Mundel. He's unfortunately injured at the moment,
29:10so yeah, he won't be fit for Derby County, but Sunderland have been playing, who will we play
29:16there? We might play Maienda on the left or we might play Adil Al-Shish who are both pretty
29:20decent. I wouldn't say they're as good as Mundel on the left, but yeah, he's been a big miss for
29:24Sunderland actually because we lost Jack Clarke in the summer, but Mundel stepped into those shoes
29:30pretty well. I think he was on something like six or seven goal contributions before getting injured.
29:35And then the kid that came in to replace him, Tommy Watson from the Academy, he scored twice
29:38against Stoke and got injured. So that's sort of where Sunderland are looking at the transfer
29:43market as a left-sided striker actually. Oh, okay. Yeah, he was really impressive. I really
29:49like the look of him, but I think midland and the park is where the game will probably be
29:55won or lost against Derby. I just think the quality that Sunderland have and the way they
30:01set it up and the way they play could just be a step too far for Derby's midfield.
30:08Just one last question. Have you been sort of aware as a championship follower of Sunderland's
30:14transfer business? I only ask this because it's been a while since Sunderland have started
30:20signing players and it's sort of caught the attention of football fans all over the place.
30:25And Enzo Lefebvre coming in from Roma, it seems to be a bit of a coup on paper, but
30:30what I noticed was other fans from other clubs on social media, they sort of sat back and took
30:37notice of that. And he's a contender actually. I think he might make the bench against Burnley.
30:40I don't know if he'll play depending on how the game goes, but he could be in line for a first
30:45start actually against Derby. Yeah, well, I think they're just trying to sign young, aren't they?
30:50And they're just signing very good young players. And I think as a journalist and I'm sure as
30:58supporters that turn out to watch their team, that's nice because it gives you something to
31:02invest yourself in, doesn't it? Whilst these players aren't the finished article, you're
31:06with them at points in their career, if they're going to be the talent that the new lad is
31:11suggested to be and Joe Bellingham and all these others, it's something to put yourself into.
31:18I remember Derby under Frank Lampard, obviously Mason Mount, a very young Mason Mount joining
31:23Derby County on loan. Harry Wilson, players like that for Kai Otamori as well. It's something to
31:31invest yourself in. And whilst they were only loan players, I think from Sunderland's point of view,
31:36the future is bright and there's a clear indication as to the way that they're trying to
31:41do things, which I think for any football club, if people outside of the club can see that and
31:46those inside will easily be able to follow it. So, yeah, I think it's exciting. I think
31:51Sunderland are a team that a lot of people are looking out for this season.
31:56No, yeah, I appreciate that. It's nice to hear actually the opposing view. Last question from
32:02me. How do you think you will feel after the game against Sunderland and how do you think it's going
32:06to go from a Derby perspective? Exhausted. I think I'll be impressed with Sunderland.
32:17I think I'll be impressed by what Sunderland have to offer. I've off the record been saying this
32:28week that I think Derby could get four points out of the next two games at home, whether that be
32:35Watford or Sunderland. I think given Watford's form at the moment, I would suggest more the
32:41Watford side of things. But I think Derby are a different animal at home and they've never been
32:48thumped at home. So I'm just throwing all of this out into the universe.
32:53So look, I think Derby will draw against Sunderland. I think it will be one-all
33:02and I think Derby will put up a good fight. Sunderland will have the ball. Derby don't
33:08care about that particularly, but I think it will be the point shared, I think.
33:15I have to say that. It's interesting you say that because Sunderland earlier in the season do
33:22have form for perhaps a more disappointing point on the road. I know a point can never really be
33:28too disappointing on the road, but there was a game against Preston that was dire and if Sunderland
33:33had played to the potential, they possibly should have won. They threw a game away late on against
33:38Millwall in the last kick of the game, drew that game. There was a game against QPR. Sunderland
33:42went down to 10 men. Job got sent off. Had he stayed on the field, he would have backed Sunderland. So
33:48there is form actually for a disappointing point on the road from Sunderland to be honest. So I
33:53wouldn't rule that out actually. It's a good chance. Well, Derby concede more than most teams
33:58in the Championship in the last 15 minutes. I think it's Derby and Plymouth that have conceded
34:02the most. So normally that's when Derby are susceptible. So that might give you some hope
34:08if you're a Sunderland fan making the long trip on a Tuesday night. Stay till the end. Don't leave.
34:13No, brilliant. Thanks for joining us, Dom. Please just give the listener a feel for where they can
34:18find you if they want to read or listen to any more of your work. BBC Radio Derby, Ramsdaely
34:25podcast is where our Derby County content is and at Dom J Dietrich on social media. So if you can
34:31spell Dietrich, good luck. Oh, thanks for joining us. And yeah, you can find all of the build-up
34:39content to the game against Derby County over at the Sunderland Echo website. Thank you for
34:44listening to the Raw podcast and cheers, Dom. We will catch you all on the next one. Cheers, James.