Phil Smith is back with the latest episode of #onthewhistle to discuss Sunderland's comeback win and take questions from readers
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00:00Morning everyone and welcome to the latest edition of On The Whistle, where we have a
00:13brilliant Sunderland win to talk about. One that looked very, very unlikely when Liam
00:17Cullen smashed it, to be fair, quite brilliant free kicking off the underside of the bar
00:2120 minutes in to make it 2-0 to Swansea City. But Sunderland showed a lot of character and
00:25a lot of quality actually to come back and make it a really, really memorable away day
00:29for the quite remarkable sold out 2,000 strong away end. I'm going to talk about the game
00:34in a little bit and get into all your questions as usual, but I just wanted to start by giving
00:38a shout out to the good folk at Roker Report who are running their annual campaign to help
00:42the Sunderland community soup kitchen. I'm sure you'll have seen about it. This is their
00:47fifth year doing it. It's an amazing sort of fundraising campaign to help provide those
00:52who need it in the city at this time of year. Please go and have a look. They've already
00:57raised nearly £16,000, which is an incredible effort. Well done to everyone involved. Speaking
01:01to those involved with the campaign, the one thing they've stressed that even the smallest
01:05of donations can make an absolutely massive difference and help the community soup kitchen
01:10provide for people who need it in our city. So please, if you've got anything you can do to
01:14help support the campaign, go and have a look and get involved. Going ahead to look at the game
01:21yesterday, it was quite hard to work out why Sunderland had started so poorly. Actually,
01:26I asked Regis Lebris about this after the game. He admitted he didn't really have the answer.
01:31He didn't know if it was sort of the repetition of games, whether it was a bit of fatigue,
01:36whatever it was. But it was a strange one because I thought Sunderland produced probably their worst
01:42half of the season in the first half and then probably their best half of the season in the
01:45second half. What was interesting about the first half was that Swansea were clearly dominant
01:50and Sunderland played so poorly, really, that I think they could have been out of the game.
01:54Having said that, Anthony Paterson didn't have loads and loads to do. The first goal is a bit
01:59of an aberration, really. It's just a complete lapse in communication. You know, a corner comes
02:05out, gets put back into the box and just seems to be a breakdown in communication between the
02:09goalkeeper and the back four. It's basically just left for Vipotnik to volley home from a few yards.
02:14As I mentioned, a sloppy giveaway. Job kind of forced, backed himself into a corner and has to
02:20make a foul on the edge of the area. Fair play. It's a fantastic free kick from Cullen.
02:26Dan Ballard obviously gives Sunderland a lifeline when a good free kick from Trey Hulme,
02:30something that's definitely been missing over the last few games, is some really good set-piece
02:34delivery. Good desire from Ballard to get on the end of it. I don't think... Sunderland, I think,
02:39were very fortunate to go into the break only one goal down, albeit, as I said, they didn't
02:43concede many chances. They just couldn't seem to get that pressing going. Really, really sloppy
02:49in possession and Swansea dominated territory. It was interesting. I'm sat not too far from the sort
02:54of dugouts and that was as animated as I've seen the breeze in the first half. Specifically trying
02:59to get his back four higher and he wanted them to get up the pitch and apply some pressure on
03:03Swansea. But they were just finding it incredibly difficult to do that. Obviously, part of that is
03:07credit to Swansea. We know how good they are in possession, how good they are at retaining the
03:10ball. But Sunderland just weren't at it. The second half was the opposite of that, really. I
03:16thought the energy... We've talked a lot about fearing that there might be some fatigue, some
03:20tired legs in this squad. I thought that the energy that Sunderland showed, particularly in midfield,
03:24was absolutely brilliant. I thought they dominated that crucial part of the pitch and that meant that
03:28Swansea just couldn't get out, really. And, of course, what happens is when you control the
03:32midfield and you're able to get up the pitch, all of a sudden players like Roberts and Meende,
03:36we know their game isn't based on playing in their own half. You want to get them higher on
03:40the pitch and, lo and behold, as soon as Sunderland start to wrestle a bit of control in midfield and
03:44get that back four high up towards the halfway line, all of a sudden you see Roberts and Meende
03:49really start to trouble their full backs and cause some problems. So, I think first and foremost,
03:54you've got to praise the character of the team. I think a 2-0 down, we were all fearing it was
03:59going to be a bit of a shocker of a day. But I thought there was a lot of determination in
04:04Sunderland's ranks and some real quality as well. Obviously, that's a stunning strike from Dan Neal.
04:11I think it's worth mentioning, I spoke to Dan Neal after the game and, bless him, he sounded
04:15absolutely terrible. I'm sure he won't mind me saying that. He's one of the few players who's
04:19been ill this week. There's a bit of a bug in the camp. I think Neal has struggled to get out of bed,
04:23to be honest, on Saturday morning. He was in a pretty bad way, but he was able to get through
04:27the game and I thought he delivered a brilliant performance. I spoke with him after the game
04:32about his season so far and we've discussed him a lot on these videos. I feel he's had some
04:37unfair criticism at times. Obviously, there have been some high-profile errors, but I also feel
04:42like it's times where he's played quite well and got a bit of a stick. He was talking to me about
04:48understanding that he didn't start the season as well as he'd liked. I think the reality of
04:55captain aside, I think it's maybe the on-pitch leadership has taken away from his own game a
05:00little bit. I was speaking to Lebris about it and Lebris will always tell you how consistent Dan
05:05is and how much he rates Dan Neal and what an important player he is, mainly because he's
05:10kind of a key player on the pitch in terms of getting those tactical messages across,
05:13maybe something that he doesn't always get the credit for. Lebris did say that Neal's desire,
05:18his tendency to try and fix problems all over the pitch to help out other players who are struggling
05:23has maybe, at times of the season, taken a little bit away from his game. I think what we saw
05:28yesterday and Dan Neal certainly feels is, A, you see him starting to get to grips with that
05:33challenge and start to not let it affect his own game so much. I think you're starting to see that
05:39he's beginning to make this position his own, actually. He plays this defensive midfield role,
05:45but we all know he's not a defensive midfielder by trade. I think we're starting to see that he's
05:50finding ways to get a slightly more dynamic side of his game going while also showing his
05:55defensive responsibilities to the team. I thought it was a fantastic moment, a great hit.
05:59I thought he was kind of the key player, really. I mentioned before about some of the wrestling
06:03back control and how that allowed them to dominate the game. I think Neal was the key
06:07player in that, rigging Bellingham in particular, absolutely excellent of course, but a real
06:11captain's display from Dan Neal. As I say, given that he was on his sickbed on Saturday morning,
06:16deserves a lot of credit for it. Let's go into some of your questions and see what you made
06:22of the game. A lot of you asked kind of a similar question, really. Chris says,
06:26why did things change so markedly? Michael says, massive comeback win for the lads that shows the
06:32never say die attitude of this team. Was there a key tactical change that they made at halftime
06:36or was it purely down to application? Peter says, what the bleep just happened? That must have been
06:42one hell of a halftime team talk. And Rob says, what did Reggie say at halftime? Well, I asked
06:47LeBreece about this after the game and as you can, I think we all kind of know what LeBreece is
06:52like. There was certainly no Alex Ferguson hairdryer style treatment. I think he was pretty
06:57calm. His big belief was basically that he, you know, probably wasn't how I felt at halftime. I
07:04thought some of them were very poor and maybe needed some changes. He felt that actually a lot
07:08of what they were doing wasn't far off. I think he felt that much of the press he was quite happy
07:13with. And I think he still felt the game was there for the taking. He felt that there was one key
07:18thing basically that someone was struggling with, which was that Swansea, for whatever reason,
07:22would find it really easy to escape the press by playing a long ball into someone's left-hand
07:26channel. And where I think Miander and Sirk were struggling a little bit and being left a bit
07:31isolated. You know, LeBreece's big thing is that football is about fine margin and it's often
07:36settled by very fine details. He genuinely felt that this one small detail, if you like, needed
07:42to be fixed. And that's what he focused on at halftime. He focused on what needed to be done
07:46to sort of change that. And I think he saw that his point was that as soon as someone realised
07:53at the start of the second half that they kind of fixed this issue, they got this grips. He said
07:56you could see the change in mentality of the players because they started to realise that the
08:00game was there for the taking. They felt that Swansea was struggling. They felt that they
08:03couldn't escape someone's pressure. And that really sort of gave them that extra bit of energy,
08:08if you like, to go and sort of really grasp the net within the game. So I think it was,
08:13yeah, it was about the small details. It was very much LeBreece's kind of point of view.
08:17And certainly it wasn't about getting the hairdryer out or making any sweeping changes.
08:21And I think fair play to him because, you know, the second half was a completely different game.
08:24I think certainly from the Swansea end, you know, Luke Williams, the head coach,
08:28was absolutely furious after the game. I think he felt his players just stopped playing.
08:32And obviously that helped someone get back into the game. But it sounds like
08:36sort of the half-time team talk really was more about fixing a couple of small
08:41details. And I think to be fair, I think what we've seen from the players this season is
08:46they're a pretty together group. They work very, very hard. I don't think they needed to be told
08:50that the first half, you know, they weren't at it. I think they'll have known that as well. So
08:53there probably wasn't a need to sort of stress that. So yeah, hopefully that gives you a little
08:58bit of insight into it. And I think it's really interesting as well, you know, in terms of
09:03how we see the game and maybe how our head coach sees the game. He genuinely felt it was a
09:07small thing to be fixed.
09:11Zeus Stelix says, is this one of the best, if not the best,
09:14comeback in recent Sunderland history? The person can't think of a better one.
09:17Yeah, I saw that. I think the last time Sunderland came from two goals behind to win was against
09:22MK Don's in the League Cup quite a long time ago. I think this would have to trump that one
09:26because it was a league game. And obviously at that time, Sunderland were playing against
09:30then lower league opposition. I think the obvious one that springs to mind is the Bristol City one,
09:35which in some ways was even more remarkable because obviously that was a pretty poor
09:39Sunderland team in very, very bad shape, playing against at the time a really upwardly mobile,
09:43confident Bristol City team. So that comeback truly came from nowhere. That was definitely
09:48the most kind of remarkable comeback I've seen. But obviously the fact that Sunderland actually
09:51won this one makes it, I think, extra special. And yeah, so I definitely think that this is
09:57probably one of the, certainly one of the favourite comebacks I've covered because,
10:01and I've been doing it for coming up eight years now, so it was a really, really special afternoon.
10:05And I was really pleased because it looked like being one of the all-time worst away days for
10:10those fans, to be honest. They'd made the trek to South Wales just before Christmas.
10:13So I'm pleased that they got something memorable. Peter says, do you think there are lessons RLB
10:19will take, or just over 94 minutes, my plan worked on to the next? A little bit of both,
10:25to be honest, Peter. I think definitely like doing the post-match stuff, both with Daniel
10:31and with Rajees, nobody was giddy. Obviously they were absolutely thrilled with the result
10:36and the way Sunderland had turned it around. But both of them made a big point of saying that,
10:40you know, Sunderland know that they can't start games like this, that realistically,
10:44if they perform that poorly in the first 20, 25 minutes of games, they're going to lose more
10:48often than anything else. You know, Daniel said that point had been made pretty clearly in the
10:53dressing room afterwards that Sunderland have to start games better. Rajees also said the same
10:57thing. So I don't think Peter will be a case of, oh, everything's fine. You know, we've won the
11:01game. We just move on. I definitely think that opening sort of section of the game is something
11:07that will be reviewed. Rajees is obsessed with video analysis. I can absolutely guarantee you
11:11that the players will be in looking over the videos of that opening 20, 25 minutes at some
11:15point this week. So I don't think it'll be swept under the carpet by any stretch of the imagination.
11:20However, I do think, you know, I've said on this video that I'd like to see Labriez be more
11:24proactive at times, make changes earlier at times, rotate more at times. And I think a lot of fans
11:30sort of share that view. But I do think we have to give Labriez a bit of credit yesterday. He felt
11:34that the start and sort of core of his team were able sort of physically to go again in this game,
11:40that he didn't need to rotate too much. He also felt that the game plan, generally speaking,
11:44was sound. And that's why he didn't kind of make loads of changes at half time,
11:49was just focused on, like I say, that little tweak. And I think to be fair,
11:52you have to give Labriez credit. He held his nerve yesterday and it actually did totally pay off. So
11:56I think when we sort of criticise sometimes at times when we'd like to see him be a bit more
12:00proactive, I think it's only fair as well that we say it when his approach absolutely works. And it
12:05did. You know, I noticed in my report that it'll be up at lunchtime, my analysis that Swansea
12:12didn't have a shot after the 48th minute of the game. That is a level of complete domination from
12:17Sunderland. Even after they scored the third goal, it was Mienda who had the best chances.
12:21So I think you've got to give Labriez credit. I think he understood where the game was being lost
12:25and he fixed it. And then he also had the kind of nerve as well not to make changes for the sake of
12:30it. So I think yesterday was one where it's a big tick in his box. Chris says, whilst we can't
12:36overlook a dreadful start, you have to be encouraged by winning after being two down.
12:39That sort of result gives a young side massive confidence and belief. No coincidence things got
12:44better when 0-9 comes on? Yeah, I think it's a fair point. I do think that by the time
12:500-9 came on, I think Sunderland were in control of the game. I think they definitely sort of
12:54taken charge. I don't think 0-9's introduction had a huge impact on the flow of the game,
13:00if that makes sense. I think Sunderland were the dominant force by that part.
13:04What it definitely did was it just gave them a little bit of extra energy and impetus and a
13:08little bit of bite. He won some really important headers. He won some important challenges. I do
13:14think it was a good sub because obviously I'm sitting there thinking if you're going to bring
13:18Dennis Serkan off, surely you're going to bring a more natural left-footed player in. Actually,
13:26I think that 0-9 did really, really well. To be honest, I do wonder whether that's potentially
13:31going to be an option for Norwich next Saturday because Lebris sort of joked at us afterwards.
13:35He said to us 0-9 was in my starting 12 today. Basically saying he was always going to get on
13:39the pitch. He was always a big part of it. I think that tells you how much Lebris raves 0-9.
13:43He's desperate to get them in the team. Personally, I don't like a right-footer at left-back because
13:48then you essentially have four right-footed players in the back four. I don't think it's
13:51great for the balance of the side, but you know what you're going to get from Luke. He'll make
13:54pretty much any position work. I definitely think that we saw again in the first half,
13:58there's a lot of talk about who should play centre-half. I don't have a particularly strong
14:02opinion on it, to be honest, because I think Sunderland are just blessed with some great
14:05options. What we do see is that 0-9 is undoubtedly the best at bringing the ball out and helping
14:10Sunderland to scrape the escape pressure. I do think 0-9 was missed in the first half yesterday,
14:14so it's really interesting to see how Lebris goes with that over the next couple of weeks.
14:18Listen, Dennis Serkin is Sunderland's starting left-back. There's no doubt about that. Outstanding
14:22at the start of the season. He will make that position his own in time. At the moment, he's
14:27just finding the sharpness again. He had a few weeks out. Maybe he's lost a little bit of rhythm,
14:30lost a little bit of confidence, and he just needs to regain that. No doubt Serkin will
14:34be playing left-back and Lebris will have some big decisions to make at centre-half
14:38in the weeks ahead, but I do just wonder for that non-hitch game whether he might look to get 0-9
14:41in and use Serkin as an impact substitute. Obviously, time will tell. Boilers says,
14:47has Lebris unlocked something that was missing from some of those frustrating draws,
14:51or was Swansea less defensive and a good opponent for the way we play?
14:57I think your latter point is true. Swansea weren't ever really in a low block at any point of the
15:01game, and I think that obviously meant that a lot of Sunderland's chances came from when Swansea
15:05were trying to play out of the back. They had players high up the pitch. Sunderland nicked
15:08possession, and then they were able to break. That was certainly how Dan Neal's goal came about.
15:12Sunderland pressured the right-back. He didn't have any options. Ball breaks out. Bellingham
15:16plays it to Neal, and Neal scores. So I do think that was part of it. To be honest, I'm not sure
15:22in terms of the attacking side of the game, it was that much different yesterday. Sunderland
15:26were dangerous without creating loads and loads of chances. I just think they had better quality.
15:30I think Hulme puts in a really good free kick, and Ballard shows really good desire to get on
15:34the end of it. Dan Neal obviously scores a brilliant goal from the edge of the area.
15:40I think the most encouraging one is the third goal, because seeing Job Bellingham get into
15:44that really, really aggressive position in the six-yard box, I think that's what you want to
15:49see. Because naturally, because Job's taken on a lot more defensive responsibilities this season
15:53now that he's playing as an eight rather than as a ten or as an out-and-out striker, it's harder for
15:57him to make those runs in the six-yard box. So I think seeing him being that aggressive is definitely
16:01an encouraging thing, and hopefully something going forward. If Sunderland are going to break
16:04down low blocks, they need Riggan Bellingham to be getting into the box and getting on those
16:08chances. So definitely some positive signs, but to be honest, I think, spoilers, I think yesterday
16:12was less about tactics. I think it was just a bit of quality that Sunderland were able to find,
16:16really, and that was how they won the game. And hopefully that's a sign of things to come.
16:22Just got a couple left. Newman Taz says, hopefully we've turned a corner. Amazing,
16:28we are still third. We will see in January how much the owners want to push on. Yep,
16:31going to be a really important window for sure, as we've talked about. And then we've got a couple,
16:35kind of along a similar line. Mr. Smith says, clinical finisher required? And Andrew says,
16:41none of the attackers really at their best in recent weeks. How likely are we to add firepower
16:46in January and any whispers on who that could be? A little bit early for concrete transfer rumors,
16:51I'm afraid, Andrew, but certainly something we'll be looking at as January rolls around.
16:55And yeah, I think that to the first point, clinical finisher required. I think Sunderland
17:02should sign another striker in January. I think it's really important to have those options.
17:06I still retain quite a bit of faith in Isidore. I still think he's a good finisher. I think for
17:11whatever reason at the moment, whether it's a little bit of fatigue crept into his game
17:14because of the workload he's taken on and maybe that's affecting him, why he's not kind of scoring
17:19those goals that he was scoring earlier, maybe. But I think generally, he works his socks off for
17:24the team. I thought he worked his socks off again yesterday, albeit it was a frustrating day
17:28personally. He's still getting some good areas. I still think he's good out there. I have a lot
17:33of faith in Isidore, I genuinely do. I think he's been a great sign and a really good option for
17:38Sunderland. Is he going to be that 2025 goal striker? Possibly not, but I still think if he
17:43played most games between the end of the season, I think he'll get close to 15 goals. I genuinely
17:47do because I think his finishing ability is good and he consistently gets into the right areas.
17:52It was interesting listening to Job say after the game in his interview with Club Media,
17:55he sort of praised Isidore for his role in Job's goal because he made that front post run. He took
18:00the defenders away, created the space, so credit to him for that. I think that kind of summed it
18:04up. Again, pretty selfless performance from Isidore. At the moment, for whatever reason,
18:09Aaron Connolly is not getting a lot of game time. I think, to be honest, Mr Smith,
18:14Connolly would say that he is the clinical finisher and that he should probably get more
18:18opportunities. I've not heard him say that. I'm just assuming that because obviously he's scored
18:23a good goal at Millwall and he's got a good goal-scoring record through his career. I think
18:26he'll be desperate to get on the pitch, but for whatever reason, I think mainly just because,
18:31as I said, I think because Isidore brings so much off the ball, I think that's why Lebris
18:35is sticking with him. But if Connolly isn't going to feature regularly and Sunderland do
18:40maybe need another striker, let's see how that window goes. In terms of your question, Andrew,
18:45I don't think there's going to be a huge amount of players coming in through the door in January,
18:49but I do think there will be and the focus is very much going to be on quality over quantity.
18:54Lebris has been quite clear that, at the moment, Nui sees the final third as his priority.
18:58That'll depend a little bit on injuries between now and then. Obviously, Romain Mundell should
19:03be back fairly early in January. You've got Abdelahi to come into the mix. Jan Pervader
19:07returned to training last Thursday, so obviously he's got to come into the mix. There will be
19:11players coming back and that will have a little bit of impact on him, but I think particularly
19:14after Tommy Watson's injury, who's going to be out for around two months, I think everyone can
19:18see that the position where Sunderland need reinforcement is in the final third. I think
19:22the encouraging thing, Andrew, is that Lebris has made it very clear. He said from day one that
19:28there's no need for a major overhaul in January. We don't need to sign loads and loads of players.
19:32I don't expect to see that, but there is definitely a belief that Sunderland need
19:37a few reinforcements in the final third, I think, is going to be the big thing.
19:41Midfield, I think, will depend a little bit on how Salis and Alan Brown are covered,
19:45because if they're both fully fit, Sunderland's options are quite good.
19:48So, we'll have to wait and see on that one, but I think certainly the noises are that Sunderland
19:52know they need a bit more in the final third of January. So, I feel like I've been talking for
19:56quite a long time. Thanks so much for all your comments and questions. It's lovely to be able
20:00to talk through such a brilliant Sunderland win. Thanks for watching, as ever, and I'll be back
20:05after the Norwich game next Saturday with the latest edition of On The Whistle. As I mentioned,
20:11I'll have some analysis up on the Echo website on Sunday lunchtime, depending on when you're
20:15watching this, which hopefully you'll think is worth a read. I'll also have that Daniel interview
20:19I mentioned in full up on the Echo in the morning, so keep your eyes peeled for that as well.
20:23Thanks for watching.