#imrankhan #pti #aliamingandapur #aliyahamza #salmanakramraja #sheikhwaqasakram #omarayub #barristergoharalikhan #ptiofficial
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Salman Akram Raja PTI
- Senator Afnan Ullah PMLN
- Usama Khilji
Ali Amin Gandapur relieved as President PTI KP - What is going on in PTI? - Salman Akram Raja Told
"Freedom of Speech vs Freedom to Lie: Afnanullah's Statement on Pakistan's Constitution"
Muzakrat Kahin Aur Bhi...? - Salman Akram Raja Reveal Insiders
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Maria Memon
Guests:
- Salman Akram Raja PTI
- Senator Afnan Ullah PMLN
- Usama Khilji
Ali Amin Gandapur relieved as President PTI KP - What is going on in PTI? - Salman Akram Raja Told
"Freedom of Speech vs Freedom to Lie: Afnanullah's Statement on Pakistan's Constitution"
Muzakrat Kahin Aur Bhi...? - Salman Akram Raja Reveal Insiders
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00Assalam-o-Alaikum, I am Maria Ameem and today's top stories is that PGI has decided to write
00:15a letter to the Supreme Court.
00:16In addition to this, I have seen that there has been a change in reaction in various offices
00:19in Tehreek-e-Insaf.
00:20Are we going to do more aggressive politics?
00:22We will talk about this in the first part of the program.
00:24After that, the opponents of the Peeka Act have become its supporters in the government.
00:28Everyone in the government likes to impose restrictions on social media and PMLN is no
00:34different from it.
00:35In the end, we will also talk about the objections on the Peeka Act.
00:39Tehreek-e-Insaf has changed its organizational order today.
00:43It has changed the management of KP.
00:45In addition to this, it has made some administrative changes in Punjab.
00:48It seems that those people who have a specific statement and mentality about 9th May in the
00:54party are now being brought forward and it seems that they are going to do more aggressive
00:58politics.
00:59Salman Akram Raja is with us in the first part of the program.
01:01He is the Secretary General of Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf.
01:03I think we should go one by one.
01:05First of all, Tehreek-e-Insaf has made some changes in its organizational order today.
01:09It has changed the management of KP.
01:11It has changed the management of Punjab.
01:13No, it has not changed in Punjab.
01:15If Ali Hamza Sahiba sees all the administrative work there, it is a change.
01:20Earlier, she was not seeing it.
01:22We will see what her role will be in that.
01:26But the administrative work was needed in Punjab.
01:31We think that there is a need for organization in Punjab.
01:33She will play a role in that.
01:35But our office holders, there is a president of Punjab, all office holders will continue
01:40to do their work.
01:42Hammad Azhar is still there.
01:44Why did you feel the need to make changes in KP?
01:47In KP, Ali Ameen Ghandapur is the Prime Minister.
01:51As the Prime Minister, he has a lot of responsibilities.
01:54Governance, running the province, security.
01:57This has been done on his wish.
01:59He felt that the administrative matters and the matters of his office,
02:03there is a tension in them.
02:05He wants to give full attention to running the province.
02:08In this regard, it was his wish and it was for a while that this change was made.
02:13Doesn't it have anything to do with the statement that Mr. Khan was making
02:16that D.I. Khan should step out of politics and act as the head of the party and KP.
02:22Doesn't it have anything to do with that?
02:24No, I don't think so.
02:26Look, Mr. Khan keeps talking and he talks openly.
02:31He doesn't hide anything that is in his heart.
02:34But it has nothing to do with that.
02:36Running the province is one thing and running the party,
02:40keeping the party's organization active is a very big thing.
02:43But this is a completely different type of work.
02:45But there is symbolism in this.
02:47If you talk about Mr. Akbar, then in relation to the 9th of May case,
02:52and in a similar way, narrative-wise, aggressive,
02:55he has a hawkish stance.
02:57If we talk about Ms. Alia Hamza, she was directly implicated in the 9th of May case.
03:01She was right, she was wrong.
03:03If we put this aside,
03:05will you have an aggressive policy as a politician for Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf?
03:10Look, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf will not do politics with an excuse.
03:15Mr. Khan is absolutely clear about this.
03:17We don't want to play committee-to-committee.
03:20If someone has the impression that we want to do politics in closed rooms,
03:25we want to get approval by sitting at the desk, then that is not the case.
03:29We did give a chance through the debates.
03:32We were asked, why don't you talk to the government?
03:35Why don't you talk to the political force?
03:37Our opinion was that they don't have any political power.
03:41If they don't even have the power to make a commission to know the truth,
03:46who only had to start the proceedings,
03:48the truth had to be revealed.
03:50Various people had to give their statements,
03:53testimonies had to come, but it was made fun of.
03:56For the last two or three days,
03:58the Minister of Justice, Mr. Irfan Siddiqui, and other people came on TV.
04:04They made fun of our demand.
04:07They said, this is not legally possible.
04:09If this is the attitude, then why are we sitting here?
04:13So we opened the door completely.
04:15We wanted to move forward through discussion.
04:18We moved forward through discussion with them.
04:20But now we see that Pakistan needs a country-like policy and a country-like movement.
04:27This is our ideological movement,
04:30which is based on the constitution, law, and human rights.
04:33So the roads will be heated as a result of this?
04:35I don't know when this will happen, but every action is possible.
04:38What is the method?
04:39Because you have now started the negotiations.
04:41What will happen after that?
04:43Will you go on the streets? Will you go to the parliament?
04:45Will you protest?
04:46We will do everything.
04:47Is it systematically methodical?
04:49I can't tell you right now.
04:50But all the actions that we are legally permitted to do,
04:55we will do them.
04:56Article 15 of the constitution gives the right to move.
05:01Article 17 says that you can gather.
05:05You can associate and assemble.
05:07Article 19 says that you can raise your voice.
05:10Today we are attacking all these rights.
05:12The law that has been made, the reforms that have been made in PIKA,
05:15which the journalistic community is concerned about.
05:19Every person who is concerned about human rights in Pakistan,
05:22I think, is a victim today.
05:24And we will support every person.
05:26We will fight for these rights.
05:28I want to ask you a few more questions on the negotiations.
05:32There were 5-6 more days before the next meeting.
05:36You have already called off the negotiations.
05:39Now the government says that you did not listen to us properly.
05:42There could have been another meeting.
05:44There could have been a prelude to your objections.
05:47Would you have let the negotiations take place?
05:50Would you have let them get exposed?
05:52What was the need to hold such tough press conferences after the last meeting?
05:57You should have kept quiet.
05:58They made that meeting a joke.
06:01As soon as they came out, they held a press conference.
06:04Mr. Rana speaks well.
06:06But the tone that was adopted that day,
06:08immediately after that, the Minister of Justice said,
06:11this is not possible legally.
06:13Because he said wrong.
06:14But there have been tougher press conferences than this.
06:16But there was no need.
06:17You came in the middle with such a maximum position.
06:20We made it very clear that before the next meeting,
06:23you have to make an announcement.
06:25You have to express your obedience.
06:27You have to express your sincerity.
06:28That did not happen.
06:29Sir, they say that you...
06:30Hamid Reza's Madrasa was attacked.
06:32His people were beaten.
06:34Why?
06:35On one hand, you are sitting with us at the table.
06:37And you are attacking those same people through your police.
06:40How can this be a joke?
06:42They say that you gave your points to the media first.
06:46You did not give it to them first.
06:47No, it is not like that.
06:48They claim that you gave your demands to the media first.
06:51After that, you handed it over to the committee.
06:53Absolutely wrong.
06:54They did not say that.
06:55When we were sitting there that day,
06:57Mr. Umar Ayub had a sealed envelope with him.
06:59He gave it to the Speaker's National Assembly.
07:02It is not like that.
07:03Okay.
07:04Now, the date is 31st.
07:06Before this, do you think that there is a possibility
07:10that the talks will resume again?
07:12Look, Mr. Imran Khan said today
07:14that the Negotiating Committee should be met with him immediately.
07:18Okay.
07:19Look, today he made this demand.
07:20I am conveying this to the government through you.
07:23And it will be conveyed to you as well.
07:25That we should meet Mr. Khan immediately.
07:29At this time, Mr. Khan's decision is that
07:31we will not sit in the fourth session.
07:34We will meet him.
07:36We will talk about it.
07:37The matter will be revealed.
07:39But at this time, our position is that
07:41until the two commissions are announced,
07:45we will not move forward.
07:47And this is what I see.
07:48If we meet Mr. Khan,
07:50then the demand will be to announce them.
07:53Maybe the time period,
07:54seven days had passed,
07:55two days should be added to it.
07:57But apart from this, I do not see it.
07:59But anyway, we will meet.
08:00If we are asked to meet Mr. Khan,
08:02then we will see what happens.
08:04And if the Speaker's office or some other way
08:06arranges a meeting,
08:07is Mr. Tariq-e-Insaab ready to sit in that meeting?
08:10With whom?
08:11With Imran Khan?
08:12No, sir, with the government committee.
08:14If the Speaker facilitates it.
08:16He is doing it with the Speaker.
08:17But that will be the fourth session.
08:19Today, we have demanded that
08:21before the fourth session,
08:23if there is to be a fourth session,
08:24which I do not see a possibility of at this time,
08:27we should meet Mr. Khan.
08:29In that meeting, Mr. Khan will make a final decision.
08:32At this time, the decision is that
08:34we will not sit in the fourth session.
08:36Because the two commissions that we had asked for,
08:38their establishment has not even been decided in principle.
08:41Right.
08:42Last week, when you were on my program,
08:44you said that there are negotiations at two places.
08:46One is obvious.
08:47This is also being discussed.
08:48This is happening in front of the camera.
08:50You said that Mr. Gandapur is also having a conversation
08:53with Mukhtadara.
08:54And from there, you had more hope.
08:57No, I did not say that.
08:59Look, I said that as the Prime Minister,
09:01there is obviously a conversation,
09:03there are meetings,
09:04there are matters of the province,
09:05there are matters of security.
09:06All the agencies, all the institutions are involved in all this.
09:11But at that time, you had more hope for those meetings and conversations.
09:15No, I did not say that.
09:16I just said that the meeting of Barrister Gauhar is auspicious.
09:20Mr. Khan said that it is auspicious.
09:22And in that meeting,
09:23in terms of security,
09:24because it was a meeting,
09:25security is not possible.
09:26Until there is no connection between the state institutions and the public
09:30without political orders,
09:31there will be no security.
09:32The economy will not work.
09:33We talked about that.
09:36But that conversation is not a blessing in disguise.
09:41That we move forward on a political level,
09:43our demands should be accepted on a legal level,
09:47the truth should be brought forward.
09:49It is not possible that we forget the truth.
09:51The election was looted.
09:52We forget that.
09:53Our people were martyred.
09:54We forget that.
09:55And we start playing some other game.
10:00Until we talk about the fundamental issues,
10:03it is good if it is on a political level.
10:06But on any level,
10:07it is an objective reality of this country
10:09that there are other people who make decisions,
10:11there are other people who sit on the table,
10:13there are other people who sit on the chair.
10:14So we want there to be a conversation on every level.
10:16But is there a conversation on that level?
10:18Look, I am not involved in it.
10:20If Ali Ameen is involved in it,
10:22then it will continue.
10:23Or is he in contact?
10:24Look, he is in contact to such an extent
10:26that he is a minister of a province.
10:28It is obvious that he has meetings.
10:31It is not that he is sitting in a closed room
10:33and running a province.
10:34He has to meet people.
10:36What is the conversation in that meeting?
10:38I am not told all the conversations.
10:41But there must be some conversation.
10:44Has the judgment of the case of £190 million
10:47affected the negotiations?
10:51After that, Mr. Khan thought
10:52that there is no point in talking about it.
10:54Look, a work was done through that judgment.
10:57Look, the judgment is a joke.
10:58We don't know anything about it.
11:00But let's talk about the political impact.
11:01After making this decision,
11:02will you go aggressive now?
11:03I don't think so.
11:04Look, a human reaction is natural.
11:07Just like Mr. Khan's wife was given
11:09a seven-year sentence for that.
11:10I think that is a violation of the law,
11:12the law and decency.
11:14There is nothing wrong with that.
11:16Just to say that in 2021,
11:18since she became the trustee of that trust,
11:20whereas the case on which the case was filed
11:23is from 2019,
11:25and in 2021, a person becomes the trustee
11:27of an established trust,
11:29then how can you call him a criminal?
11:32Okay, but has that judgment
11:33affected his wife's decision
11:35regarding these negotiations?
11:37Look, it may have happened
11:39because we are not getting any indication
11:41from the other side
11:43that they want to follow the rules, laws
11:45and the requirements of fundamental decency.
11:47So, we think that punishing Musharraf
11:50is against fundamental decency.
11:52They have left the rules and laws.
11:53Right.
11:54Regarding the Judicial Commission,
11:55you want to write a letter to the judges
11:57and the Chief Justice,
11:59after the 26th amendment.
12:01Do you think this letter will be effective?
12:04What do you want to say to them?
12:06Look, we have filed several petitions
12:09in the last 18 months and 2 years
12:11regarding all matters.
12:13No petition has been heard.
12:15So, we will continue to demand.
12:17We have also filed petitions
12:19in a formal and official manner.
12:21A letter will also be sent to Mr. Khan.
12:23Yesterday, we got a signature
12:25from Mr. Khan in Adiala Jail.
12:27So, those things have been repeated
12:29in that letter.
12:31We are presenting a lot of material
12:33with it.
12:35It is said that the bullet was not fired.
12:37The people who were martyred that day,
12:39whose record we have access to,
12:41their funerals, their photographs,
12:43we have given all those things
12:45with that letter.
12:47Similarly, the people who were injured that day,
12:49the details of their injuries,
12:51which hospital they went to,
12:53where they were treated,
12:55we have also given that.
12:57Although the records of the hospitals
12:59have been changed later,
13:01we have presented all these things.
13:03Reports of many institutions
13:05have been presented
13:07regarding the elections
13:09of 8th February and 9th February.
13:11So, we will continue to demand.
13:13We will continue to shake the conscience
13:15of every institution and every person.
13:17But after the 26th amendment,
13:19you think that the matter has become
13:21legally more complicated.
13:23Yes, absolutely.
13:25We are in front of you.
13:27So, how much do you think
13:29that you have the courage?
13:31We think that this decision will be made
13:33by the people.
13:35We have thrown this country
13:37into a pit.
13:39The game we have played
13:41with our constitution
13:43is such a game that we need
13:45such an assembly
13:47which is a representative
13:49assembly of the people.
13:51This was an assembly of dons.
13:53On the basis of fraud,
13:55you have made a constitution
13:57which is obviously a constitution.
13:59We think that it should be rejected
14:01at the court level,
14:03but we do not expect that.
14:05Because this matter is going
14:07to the same bench
14:09which itself is a supporter
14:11of this constitutional amendment.
14:13You are saying that it cannot be
14:15ended by the court.
14:17Even if it is, it can be rolled back
14:19by the parliament.
14:21If some other institution does it,
14:23no one will listen to it.
14:25There are two things in this.
14:27One is the legal aspect.
14:29The legal aspect is whether
14:31a court can end the constitutional amendment.
14:33The answer to this is yes.
14:35This matter started in India
14:37and has come to our country
14:39since the last 50 years.
14:41If it is against the constitution
14:43and the spirit of the constitution,
14:45then the court can reject it.
14:47Even if the constitutional amendment
14:49says that it cannot be rejected.
14:51In the 26th amendment,
14:53they have written a sentence
14:55that no court can reject it.
14:57We are seeing that sentence
14:59whether the parliament
15:01had the right to amend
15:03this constitution.
15:05The legal answer is that
15:07it can be done and
15:09it has happened many times in India.
15:11This is one thing.
15:13The second thing is that
15:15if any institution does it,
15:17that is, if the Supreme Court
15:19rejects it, then we will not
15:21listen to it.
15:23This is a rebellion against
15:25the Supreme Court and the Constitution.
15:27This is a declaration of rebellion.
15:29The first thing is the legal
15:31lack of understanding.
15:33The second thing is the declaration
15:35of rebellion.
15:37The government has become its supporter.
15:39Let's take a look at their actions.
15:41Does the government itself
15:43not head the machinery
15:45that produces the biggest
15:47fake news?
15:49We will explain this to you with examples.
15:51Stay with us after the break.
15:55Welcome back.
15:57The amendment bill of the PICA Act
15:59has been presented for 2025.
16:01It seems that it will be approved
16:03soon.
16:05The current government of PMLN
16:07has been a big critic of the PICA Act
16:09when Pakistan wanted to bring
16:11justice and enforce it.
16:13But today they have become
16:15its cheerleaders with great joy.
16:17What does the PICA Act say?
16:19What is going to happen with you?
16:21The amendment bill of the PICA Act
16:23approved by the National Assembly
16:25has been said in 2025 that the
16:27Social Media Protection and
16:29Regulatory Authority will be established
16:31by analyzing the cybercrime wing of the FIA.
16:33The bill will determine the
16:35abrogation of the registration
16:37and will ensure the security
16:39and rights of the users
16:41along with the facilitation
16:43of the social media platform.
16:45It has been said in the bill that
16:47the authorities will be able
16:49to issue instructions to the
16:51relevant institutions to remove
16:53illegal content from social media.
16:55A new section 26A has been included
16:57in the PICA Act which is related
16:59to the punishment against
17:01the users of social media platforms.
17:03It has been said in the bill that
17:05anyone who deliberately spreads
17:07fake news which causes fear,
17:09anxiety and disruption in the
17:11public and society will be
17:13imprisoned for 3 years or
17:15fined 20 lakh rupees or
17:17both will be punished.
17:19According to this bill,
17:21it is mandatory to register
17:23social media platforms with
17:25the authorities.
17:27On the other hand,
17:29the government will be
17:31required to file a request
17:33to the authorities.
17:35A social media protection
17:37tribunal will be set up for
17:39the act and the chairman
17:41will be a former judge of
17:43the High Court.
17:45The tribunal's decision will
17:47be challenged in the Supreme
17:49Court in 60 days.
17:51There will be a total of
17:539 members of this authority
17:55including the Secretary of
17:57the Parliament and even
17:59the chief judge of
18:01the Supreme Court.
18:03It will also be a Theories
18:05against illegal content
18:07which the police,
18:09government and public
18:11use to break the law.
18:13It will be a Theories
18:15against illegal content
18:17which the police,
18:19government and public
18:21use to break the law.
18:23The Government will not be
18:25I am happy to see the government's commitment to fake news, but there is a larger question here.
18:30And that is, who are the entities that spread fake news the most in this country?
18:35I will present some examples to you.
18:37Then we will also ask our guests to explain the difference between fake news and true news.
18:42Then it will be easier for us in the light of this new PICA Act.
18:45For example, let's start with whether there was a shooting in Islamabad on the night of 26th or not.
18:50One minister of the government says that there was a shooting.
18:53The other minister says that there was no shooting.
18:56Let's listen to their statements.
19:11Now, I don't know which of these is fake news.
19:14Is it Atta Tarar's or Saad Dar's?
19:16In the light of this new bill, if there is an application for it, who will go to jail for three years?
19:21Has the internet slowed down or not?
19:24In this, Shaza Khawaja says that it has not slowed down.
19:27Sharmila Faruqi Sahiba, her party is not a direct ally of the current government.
19:32But this government is made up of votes from the People's Party.
19:35They say that the firewall is installed. The internet has slowed down.
19:38Let's listen to their statements.
19:52You are destroying this sector by installing so many firewalls and slowing down the internet.
19:57But no one is ready to believe it.
20:00Again, who is spreading fake news under the new PICA Act?
20:05This is the question.
20:06Atta Tarar had announced a ban on Tehreek-e-Insaf a while ago.
20:10And this country's information minister of a press conference said that a decision has been made on this party to impose a ban.
20:17And then another senior minister came and said that no decision has been made.
20:20The matter has not even gone to our cabinet yet.
20:23Look at this.
20:24The government will move the case to ban PTI.
20:28They are going to impose a ban on Tehreek-e-Insaf.
20:30There is a lot of credible evidence that Tehreek-e-Insaf should be banned.
20:33The declaration has not gone to the cabinet yet.
20:37The cabinet will consider it.
20:39And if it has reached the conclusion that there should be a further probe, there will be a further probe.
20:43If it has reached the conclusion that the declaration is based on evidence,
20:48then the declaration will be announced and it will be presented in the Supreme Court.
20:55The information minister who is against fake news right now,
20:58please tell us which statement should we include in the list of fake news and true news.
21:03In Punjab College, we saw the case of rape of a girl.
21:06The education minister there first admitted on camera that there was rape according to him.
21:12Then the minister of that province came and said that there was no rape.
21:17Please look at these two statements.
21:30Senator Afnanullah Khan is with us in the program.
21:33Senator Usama Khilji is with us.
21:35Senator Usama Khilji is a digital rights activist.
21:39Senator Usama Khilji, let's start with you.
21:41Fake news should be banned.
21:43Everyone agrees on this table.
21:45None of us agree on the principle that fake news should be left open.
21:51But who will define fake news?
21:54If the government itself is not clear about fake news,
21:58if it is a political statement and there will be press conferences about fake news,
22:02then how can anyone say that it is really against fake news?
22:05And it is not against freedom of expression.
22:08Bismillah Rahman Rahim.
22:10The examples that you have given can be exceptions and not generalizations.
22:18For example, take the rape case.
22:22In the rape case, the girl does not exist and she was raped.
22:26Therefore, it is fake news.
22:28At one point in time, I realized that it did not happen in my party.
22:38So, there will be two different news.
22:41But there will be a point when you will draw a conclusion.
22:46That rape did not happen.
22:48Now, the people who ran the campaign,
22:52who spread fake news,
22:58How will it make a difference who is doing it on purpose and who is doing it by mistake?
23:02If someone is making statements about it,
23:04and people are dying,
23:06a guard has been killed in this case.
23:09When there was no rape,
23:11we will have to understand that the mirror of Pakistan gives you freedom of speech.
23:20But you do not have the freedom to lie.
23:23You can't go on TV and lie.
23:25You can't go and peddle.
23:28I have shown many examples.
23:29Whether the bullet was fired or not,
23:30it is also known that the bullet was fired.
23:32These are all exceptions.
23:34Sir, these are the responsible people who have to come and make a policy.
23:37That's why I gave their example.
23:38You did the right thing.
23:39I am saying that there can be two opinions in one situation.
23:45It is possible that one opinion is wrong.
23:46But fake news picks up very easily.
23:4935 punctures do not exist.
23:53You have made 35 punctures in the air.
23:55This is fake news.
23:56There are statements on it.
23:57People's time has been wasted on it.
23:59The nation's time and money has been wasted on it.
24:01This is fake news.
24:03I am saying that it is important that the truth is known to the public.
24:07That should be known.
24:09But it is more important that fake news is not known.
24:13Because it also has an impact.
24:15You put this matter in front of you.
24:18Fake news has spread in this country.
24:22I don't know what is happening on fake news.
24:24This is also a reality.
24:26It is a global problem.
24:27As I said in the beginning,
24:29none of us have the right not to stop fake news.
24:32What is the problem in the law of the SPK?
24:34You have identified the big areas.
24:36As a digital right activist.
24:38The biggest problem is that you are criminalizing speech.
24:43A form of speech.
24:45But we have to look at it in a political context.
24:49We have to see how the law has come.
24:51It has come in such an environment where
24:53Press freedom in Pakistan is at one of the lowest levels.
24:57You can compare it with other countries.
24:59You can see how many journalists have been accused
25:03of peddling fake news.
25:05And because of that they had to go to jail.
25:07And then their case turned out to be bogus.
25:09They were released.
25:10The law of the SPK was used.
25:12Basically, this law will be used.
25:15Which criticizes the government's policies.
25:19And I think we have been seeing this for a long time.
25:23No one says that people should lie.
25:26They should have a right.
25:28But will you put three years in jail
25:31on a Facebook post or a tweet?
25:34And if people in your own government
25:37speak the truth and lie.
25:40You don't know who is telling the truth and who is lying.
25:42Who will tell who is lying?
25:44Will you put them in jail?
25:46I think you have illustrated this very well.
25:49That you correct the narratives.
25:54And Mr. Irfan said very well
25:56that everyone knows what fake news is.
25:59So doesn't it mean that it is a good thing
26:02that everyone knows what is a lie?
26:04Why are you putting a person in jail?
26:06Their statements have already been proven wrong.
26:08Its chilling effect will be very wide-ranging.
26:12People will be more afraid of your political freedom of speech.
26:17Your journalists will be more afraid
26:20that if tomorrow no one likes my news
26:23then I will be put in jail by misusing it.
26:26But Osama, some people deliberately lie.
26:29They deliberately lie.
26:31They know that the news is wrong.
26:33They don't delete it.
26:34They keep spreading it.
26:37But there is always a counter-narrative.
26:39What is the purpose of the government's information apparatus?
26:43To bring out the right information.
26:47But if you censor the media,
26:50if you shut down the internet
26:52and if you don't allow people to talk about certain topics in the media
26:57then only fake news will spread.
26:59If you bring artificial blocks in the information ecosystem
27:04then disinformation and fake news will spread.
27:07So I think if you have an open information environment
27:11then lies are proven.
27:14And if someone gives false statements against you
27:18you should counter it.
27:19You should correct it.
27:20Mr. Afnaan, I have a very long line of objections.
27:23PFUJ, HRCP, Media Joint Action Committee, National Press Club, Karachi Press Club
27:29and so on and so forth.
27:31You didn't talk to any stakeholder and didn't trust them.
27:35And they all think that this is a law
27:38through which you want to take away the basic right to speak.
27:42All of them are wrong.
27:43You are not able to explain it to them.
27:45Or they are looking at it from a different perspective.
27:48These 6-8 people should be your allies.
27:51They are not your allies.
27:52They are against you.
27:54The thing is that it is very difficult while doing legislative work
27:59to align the interests of many diverse groups.
28:04It's not easy.
28:05It's very difficult.
28:06Like many people are saying that 3 years of punishment is too much.
28:10This is an opinion.
28:11Some people think that 3 years of punishment is less.
28:13This is also an opinion.
28:14Who thinks so?
28:15Look, you tell me one thing.
28:17The guard who was killed,
28:19will he come back to life by ending fake news?
28:22The people whose lives were ruined because of fake news,
28:25will they come back to life?
28:27If you say that we have come to know the truth.
28:29The thing is that we as a society will have to understand that
28:34the lies that are spread and sold,
28:37people make crores of rupees on it.
28:39This is their shop.
28:40This is their business.
28:42If you don't close this business,
28:43your society will spread.
28:45Who is responsible for that?
28:46You tell me.
28:47If the government is not responsible,
28:48if the government keeps on dying,
28:50and, and, and, and,
28:52Look, we can think that
28:55if the freedom is more, it will be better.
28:59There is no such example in history.
29:03You should have freedom.
29:06The rights in the constitution should be protected.
29:09But you keep on saying whatever you want on TV.
29:14You call me.
29:15Pick and choose.
29:16The people who have to make crores of rupees a month.
29:18Pick and choose.
29:19The people who are not standing with your political party.
29:24This law will apply to them.
29:26It won't apply to them.
29:27It won't apply to the people who are making fake news
29:29or making statements in your favor.
29:30The judge will sit in the tribunal.
29:32No judge of PMLN will sit there.
29:34Osama will not sit there.
29:35But you will make a case against them.
29:37Then don't make fake news.
29:38And they will pick and choose.
29:40The people of the party will be punished.
29:43Look, we will have to understand one thing.
29:45If someone is lying,
29:46he will suffer the consequences.
29:48This is not the way to spread fake news.
29:51I think that if someone is peddling fake news,
29:58he should suffer the consequences.
30:00It is not possible that you leave people in the society
30:03who are making 2-3 crores a month on YouTube
30:06and they are lying.
30:07Yes, it is coming tomorrow.
30:08Yes, it is coming day after tomorrow.
30:09Yes, it is standing.
30:10Yes, this happened.
30:11Yes, it fell.
30:12Your examples are political.
30:15We are afraid that this bill will be applied
30:19on your political opponents.
30:21God forbid, if Iqtadar sir has to go,
30:24then it will be applied on you too.
30:26Are you afraid of that day?
30:28This is a very small matter for us.
30:30It is not a big deal for politicians to be punished for 3 years.
30:33This will not be applied on us.
30:35I have been to 6 other places.
30:37We are afraid of being trapped.
30:39Don't you think that after 2-3 years,
30:41it will be applied on you?
30:42If we have a bad time,
30:44it will not be because of PIKA.
30:46It is a small matter.
30:48Even if we try under PIKA,
30:50there are so many atrocities,
30:52so many mountains of oppression,
30:54that they say that PIKA is not the problem
30:56for which we are worried.
30:58We should be clear about some things.
31:00Disinformation has different forms.
31:04Disinformation includes hate speech.
31:06Disinformation includes defamation.
31:09Disinformation includes terrorism.
31:12But your politics is also misinformation and disinformation.
31:16The state also peddles fake news against people.
31:20Fatima Jinnah was declared an Indian agent
31:24by Ayub Khan.
31:26Nawab Sharif was called Modi.
31:28Nawab Sharif was called Modi.
31:30So this fake news continues.
31:32But it has different forms.
31:34Like I told you about defamation,
31:37In Pakistan Penal Code,
31:39there are two sections,
31:41which are related to criminal defamation.
31:43PIKA's section 20 is already related to defamation.
31:47And then we see that
31:49there is an ordinance of defamation,
31:51which is a civil law.
31:52So you have three different avenues.
31:54If someone attacks your reputation,
31:57you have this.
31:59This is a political statement of fake news in the world.
32:04So I think this law was brought to strengthen it.
32:08But in my opinion,
32:10it is not necessary to bring another law
32:12to shut people down.
32:14I will repeat the same thing
32:16that it has become a tool to trap people
32:18against political opponents.
32:22And this PIKA is making it worse.
32:25Thank you very much.
32:27Sir, this has to be done by the enforced government.
32:30No, we have to do it.
32:32You have to make cases and pursue them.
32:34You have to do a good prosecution.
32:36This regulatory authority has been made for this.
32:38Thank you very much.
32:39We have with us Senator Afnan-ul-Aqsa Amarkhilji
32:41in the program.
32:42We will have a closing note at the end.
32:48Welcome back.
32:49What are the objections on the PIKA Act?
32:51Let me tell you quickly.
32:52What does the Karachi Press Club say?
32:54It says that it is contrary to Article 19,
32:57which gives every citizen the right to express their opinion.
32:59National Press Club says
33:01that the PIKA Act is a law to file a case first
33:03and then conduct an inquiry.
33:05The Joint Action Committee of the media says
33:07that no stakeholder has been contacted
33:09for any kind of discussion.
33:11HRCP says that unnecessary restrictions
33:13will be imposed on new authorities.
33:15PFUJ says that this is an attack on press freedom
33:17which they will not tolerate.
33:19Social media experts say
33:21that this amendment has been brought
33:23to answer the questions of restrictions
33:25expressed by the courts.
33:27Another social media activist, Adil Rahman, says
33:29that there is a risk of misuse of power in 2025.
33:33No stakeholder agrees with this new act
33:35of the PIKA Act.
33:37The program is now over.
33:39Don't forget to give your feedback.
33:41Take care.
33:43Goodbye.