Greg Bedard and John Zannis record an emergency podcast to react to the breaking news that the Patriots are bringing back Josh McDaniels as their offensive coordinator for his third stint in New England. The duo discusses the potential for McDaniels to build a strong offensive staff and adapt his strategies to maximize player performance, particularly for young quarterback Drake Maye.
0:00 - McDaniels named coordinator
5:56 - Long-term success for Patriots
8:00 - McDaniels' quarterback development
12:00 - Fullback's return to offense
19:32 - McDaniels' game strategy
21:54 - Limitations of McDaniels
23:25 - Coaching search process
25:29 - Focus on McDaniels
27:01 - McDaniels' influence
36:02 - Defensive coordinator favorites
39:31 - Patriots turnaround potential
Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast is presented by:
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS to get $50 when you play $5! PrizePicks, run your game! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
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0:00 - McDaniels named coordinator
5:56 - Long-term success for Patriots
8:00 - McDaniels' quarterback development
12:00 - Fullback's return to offense
19:32 - McDaniels' game strategy
21:54 - Limitations of McDaniels
23:25 - Coaching search process
25:29 - Focus on McDaniels
27:01 - McDaniels' influence
36:02 - Defensive coordinator favorites
39:31 - Patriots turnaround potential
Greg Bedard Patriots Podcast is presented by:
Prize Picks! Get in on the excitement with PrizePicks, America’s No. 1 Fantasy Sports App, where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code CLNS to get $50 when you play $5! PrizePicks, run your game! Go to https://PrizePicks.com/CLNS
Gametime! Take the guesswork out of buying NBA tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime! Terms apply. Go to https://gametime.co !
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SportsTranscript
00:00This is the Gregg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles.
00:10Okay.
00:11Welcome in everybody.
00:12An emergency episode of the Gregg Bedard Patriots podcast with of course, Gregg Bedard and I
00:16am John Zanis pinch hitting for Nick Cattles.
00:19Greg and Nick did a show earlier today, never got a chance to put it out there because so
00:23much of the conversation centered around who is going to be the Patriots offensive coordinator.
00:27And as it turns out, we have that answer.
00:30It is Josh McDaniels, the news breaking around 6 PM on Tuesday.
00:36This is kind of where it was headed.
00:37We'll get Greg's reaction of course, to that, talk a little bit about what's next with the
00:43staff, the rest of the offensive staff, potentially a favorite emerging for the defensive coordinator
00:49position and all that in this special emergency episode, which of course is brought to you
00:53by prize picks, the largest daily fantasy sports platform in North America.
00:58Download the prize picks app today.
00:59Use code CLNS, get 50 instantly.
01:01When you play five, that's code CLNS on prize picks, get 50 instantly.
01:05When you play five prize picks, run your game and take the guesswork out of buying tickets
01:10with game time.
01:11Download the game time app, create an account, use the code CLNS for $20 off your first purchase.
01:16Download game time today.
01:18What time is it game time?
01:20And now it's time to talk about McDaniels.
01:22We saw this coming, but your immediate reaction to the news, Greg, or how it's maybe evolved
01:27over time.
01:29You've kind of, we've known this is headed in this direction now that it's here.
01:33Your thoughts.
01:34Yeah.
01:35I thought, um, you know, once we found out that Mayo was fired, um, you know, even before
01:42that, I mean, when Frabel was sort of brought up, um, him and McDaniels were linked in a
01:48lot of reports.
01:50Um, you know, that was certainly a possibility.
01:54Um, I would say around the time of Rabel's hire, um, you know, around the time of his
02:01press conference, I would say that McDaniels being his offensive coordinator wasn't on
02:07the front burner.
02:08Um, but I, I, I don't know what to make of that.
02:12I think it was just a case of, I think Rabel wanted to explore some options.
02:17I mean, you know, generally I'm a little bit surprised.
02:21I mean, given that, you know, Rabel and his first go around as a head coach, he went straight
02:28to Sean McVay's tree with, uh, with Matt LaFleur and then Arthur Smith ran the same sort of
02:35thing.
02:36The first mentions of, uh, you know, offensive coaching hires or interviews, um, whether
02:43it was Thomas Brown or Marcus Brady or, uh, Gary Udinski from, from the Vikings, uh, there
02:51were some mention of some Rams guys like Dave Ragone, um, possibly Michael LaFleur, you
02:57know, all of those come from the McVay Shanahan tree.
03:01And it seemed like that's what Rabel wants possibly because he thinks that scheme's really
03:07difficult to defend compared to what the Patriots did.
03:11Um, you know, I was always hoping that McDaniel's would, uh, get a legitimate chance.
03:17Um, and I'm happy that I did because I do think, I think this hire by Mike Rabel is
03:25the best path forward for the Patriots.
03:28I think it's a, you know, I don't want to use any of the cliches like home runs and
03:32stuff like that, but like, I think it's, I think it's a great way and it's a great way
03:37for this franchise to go.
03:38It's a great way for able to go because really when it boils down to it, John, this is a
03:43chance for the Patriots between the head coach, the quarterback and the offensive coordinator
03:50to be together.
03:51We're talking for a decade plus, because look, Josh McDaniels is still only 48.
03:57I think the world of him as a coach, I think he got a raw deal, uh, with the Raiders.
04:02If he just would have gotten a quarterback, it made that more of a priority, uh, quicker,
04:09you know, maybe he's still there and being a good head coach, but he could still get
04:12an opportunity to be a head coach again.
04:14Uh, but don't say that.
04:17I mean, it's going to take some time.
04:18I mean, I can't do that again.
04:20Yeah.
04:21I mean, I, I, it's, it's going to be probably sometime if that ever happens again.
04:27So to me, I know there's a lot of people out there who wanted the flashy new thing,
04:33the young guy with the tight pants and the slick hair and all that stuff.
04:37And I get it.
04:38And all the specially tight pants.
04:40Yeah.
04:41Yes.
04:42Um, but that, that's short lived John.
04:46And we saw this in variables first go around with the Titans.
04:49I mean, it went for, from Matliff floor, he only had Matliff floor for a year.
04:54And Arthur Smith, he had for two years and he goes to Atlanta.
04:57And then all of a sudden he runs out of people that are really good at that job promoting
05:01from within and Todd Downing, two years, not good fired Tim Kelly, not good.
05:09And that ended up costing variable his job.
05:11It's, it's not that all this dissimilar from, you know, bill Belichick towards the end here,
05:16when he finally ran out of people, um, after McDaniels went to the Raiders, we all know
05:20about Matt, Patricia and Joe judge.
05:22He brings bill O'Brien back, but he mismatches them with an offensive line coach, which,
05:27which he, that he didn't know, which was a recipe for disaster.
05:31And so, you know, now provided they allow Josh McDaniels to go out and hire guys that
05:38he likes that can run his system.
05:41Um, I think it's, it's a tremendous place, let alone his unquestioned resume at developing
05:47quarterbacks.
05:48Like, I don't think there are many better, better in this league at developing quarterbacks.
05:53And so I think it's a great day for the Patriots.
05:56I think it's sets up the franchise for long-term success.
06:00And, and I think to me, I think Vrabel learned from his first go around and said, you know,
06:05I tried to do it this way, but it ended up costing me maybe, maybe McDaniels doesn't
06:10have the ceiling of some other guys, but his floor is really high and I get the years.
06:15And that's the most important thing with Drake May.
06:19I mean, can you imagine they bring in Udinski, he lights the world on fire and then like
06:24LaFleur, he's gone after a year, like that's, that would be three coordinators in three
06:28years for Drake May.
06:30And that's, that's just not setting him up for success.
06:32Yeah.
06:33That was an area.
06:34Again, this is one of those things that Bill, Bill had right, uh, in terms of his approach,
06:39but you're right at a certain point in time, uh, you run out of, you know, there's, there's
06:43no bullets left in the chamber and we saw that's what happened there, but that was his
06:47thinking in many of those, uh, cases when he was trying to promote from within, uh,
06:52and just keep it inside the family is I don't want this.
06:55I don't want that guy with the tight pants to leave in two years and that might happen.
06:59And that's exactly what happens as soon as you get some.
07:01And chances are a hot new young OC coming in here with the Patriots and Drake May, you
07:06know, and hopefully an upward trajectory, they'll start looking good again.
07:12And people are going to want a piece of that magic and that guy's going to get hired.
07:15And you're right.
07:16You start all over again and McDaniel's yeah.
07:18Maybe he does get another shot, but realistically, yeah, this is it.
07:23He's here and he likes it here and he wants to be in new England.
07:25Right.
07:26And this is, you know, he's got roots.
07:27This makes a lot of sense for that, uh, you know, for that purpose, but how else does
07:32it make sense?
07:33Like you talked about, uh, Drake May and McDaniel's being great at developing quarterbacks, uh,
07:40Kendrick Bourne, uh, you know, we talked about a little bit off air, uh, immediately reacted
07:44to the hire.
07:45He's a guy who had a career year under McDaniel's, uh, in his year here, uh, in his last year
07:50as Patriots office coordinator, Mac Jones looked like a serviceable NFL quarterback
07:54under Josh McDaniel's.
07:56Uh, he's a bit of a King maker when it comes to that kind of stuff is trying to extract
08:00and get the most out of players.
08:01So that's something you need, particularly on this team where you need to get more.
08:07I don't know if you could have gotten less from the collective than you did last year,
08:12even though it was maybe a bottom five unit talent wise, in terms of weapons, I don't
08:18know that you could have possibly gotten less out of them.
08:21Even if you bring that back with some enhancements, chances are Josh is going to get something
08:25out of them.
08:26Yeah.
08:27And I mean, DeMario, all of those things, I think he could do, I think he'd do great
08:30things with DeMario Douglas and be really creative and how he uses him, uh, the way
08:34he used some of those other guys operating through the slot.
08:36I think there's a lot of possibilities plus again, who knows what you get through the
08:40or whatnot.
08:41Yeah.
08:42And, and also don't discount that Josh has, from what I understand, he has spent this
08:48year sort of away from coaching, so to speak, like, um, consulting with other NFL teams,
08:55going to colleges, visiting other NFL teams, like talking schemes.
09:00So, you know, marrying maybe some of the college stuff with what he likes to do, but I mean,
09:05you know, you look at what he did.
09:06I mean, Matt Castle went from a guy who didn't play in college to winning.
09:11I think it was 11 games, substituted 11 and five for, for Tom Brady, Jimmy Garoppolo went
09:17from a guy who, um, he was sort of like, he was, he was really underdeveloped when they
09:24drafted him.
09:25And, you know, to the point where that guy went to the super bowl twice with the San
09:28Francisco 49ers, thanks to the base that Josh McDaniels gave him, Jacoby reset one games
09:35as a rookie, uh, running at times beat an undefeated Houston Texans team.
09:40Cam Newton, um, was basically done when they got them and, and McDaniels was able to incorporate
09:47his legs to at least make the Patriots competitive that year, probably more so than they should
09:52have been.
09:53Of course, Mack Jones, you know, the thing about Kendrick Bourne, I think it's a great
09:56example, John, uh, where I think Josh McDaniels is, is really good.
10:02And it also goes to, you know, Drake may, you know, Kendrick Bourne, from what I understand,
10:08when he, when he got here with the Patriots, um, they realized very quickly that he needed,
10:14they needed to support him a lot as a player for him to be successful in this offense.
10:20He, he, you know, he, I, I think someone told me once that he was a visual learner.
10:24So, uh, the coaches would go out there and like really work with him.
10:29Uh, there was a lot of handholding from Monday to Saturday to get him to play well on Sundays.
10:35And you could see like from his reaction already on Twitter and on Instagram, like he's all
10:41excited that Josh McDaniels is back and he's going, he's great.
10:45McDaniels is great at putting, putting guys in position to succeed something that I think
10:50this last coaching staff was not good at.
10:52I mean, they might've done well with Drake may, but like, you know, if the offensive line
10:58can't block X, Y, and Z, Josh McDaniels is not going to call those plays.
11:02He's going to double down on protection.
11:04He's going to make it a priority that like Drake may is not getting hit in this game.
11:09I don't care how many we have to keep in, you know, he's, he's going to do all those
11:13things.
11:14The Cam Newton is a perfect example.
11:16You think it's in Josh McDaniels DNA to be a bully ball sort of OC is like, no, there's
11:21nothing he, this guy can't throw the ball.
11:23Like what else are we going to do?
11:24And that's what you had to do.
11:25Yeah.
11:26I mean, you know, Josh has the ability, we've seen them in the iterations of this Patriots
11:30offense from, you know, 2007 to, you know, remember how they won their last championship
11:35in 2018.
11:36Yeah.
11:37Brady was struggling.
11:39The passing game was struggling.
11:40Guess what?
11:41They went to a power running game.
11:42And I think Vrabel told one of the, uh, video TV stations or whatever, um, you know, after
11:49his press conference that the fullback was coming back.
11:52I mean, there's nobody more of an expert at the fullback game and incorporating that
11:57with James Devlin and other people, uh, than Josh McDaniel.
12:01So whatever the Patriots end up with at the end of the day, whether it's T Higgins or
12:06in the draft or how they draft offensive lineman, there's nobody, there's very few that are
12:12better at taking what is on their plate as far as, you know, to cook the dinner and utilizing
12:19it correctly than Josh McDaniels.
12:22So are you saying that the fullback is coming back?
12:25I think, I think Vrabel said that, but yeah, I think the, I think the fullback is coming
12:29back.
12:30I think, I think they want the ability to, you know, when they have to visit, be physically
12:34imposing.
12:35And I think it'll be great for remandering Stevenson in the new scheme.
12:39I mean, I think it's going to be great for a lot of people, uh, but whatever the Patriots,
12:44whatever they have at their disposal, maybe we'll, and here's another thing.
12:48And I left this out of my column that I wrote for BSJ, um, you know, when towards the latter
12:54stages, uh, when Bill Belichick was here, um, you know, Bill would ask the coaches like,
13:00all right, what, what do you want?
13:01Or, you know, if you could have your druthers in terms of the draft and free agency, like
13:06what you want, uh, Bill always, he always prioritized defense over, you know, what they
13:13wanted on offense.
13:14So hopefully McDaniels has like, you know, Vrabel uses them, has an assistant head coach
13:20type where they really incorporate that and give Josh what he needs.
13:25And I think, uh, you know, that could improve sort of what we saw towards the latter years
13:31with Bill Belichick here.
13:33Yeah.
13:34More on the McDaniels, uh, higher, the imminent higher here, uh, coming up momentarily.
13:39But first we're going to take a quick pause and hear from Greg talking about one of our
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14:41All right.
14:42Welcome back, Greg.
14:43How does this play for Drake May?
14:44Is this a good thing for him?
14:45If you're may right now, are you psyched to have Josh McDaniels here again?
14:49He had some success with Alex van Pelt, at least in terms of his development.
14:53And now you got a new guy coming in the door.
14:55Is this nothing positive here or can you see potentially any bumps in the road for, for,
15:02for me?
15:03Yeah, I don't see any bumps at all.
15:05I mean, I think, um, it's only upside for Drake in terms of the way Josh teaches quarterbacks,
15:12but also more importantly, provided provided Drake may is as smart as he appeared to be
15:20this season.
15:21Um, you know, when we saw him and how quickly he progressed, um, being in the McDaniels
15:29offense is eventually, and, and Josh is great at this and he was on, uh, Julian Edelman's
15:34podcast games with names, names with games, whatever, uh, you know, talking about developing
15:40a young quarterback and how he did it.
15:42And he's big on the bucket, like, you know, about like, they're only, they're going to
15:46figure out what he can and can't do, and they're going to stay in the bucket.
15:50Then they're going to slowly expand the bucket in terms of, you know, what they, what they
15:55asked them to do.
15:56They did this with Mack Jones and, you know, I think eventually, and it might be very soon
16:03given how smart Drake appeared, but the, the ability McDaniels is great at giving the
16:09quarterback a lot of tools in terms of changing things at the line, changing protections,
16:15um, you know, knowing where things are going to come from having answers, which sometimes
16:21the Patriots didn't have answers to last year.
16:24That was a big problem that we heard later in the season where other teams knew, like
16:30if they do this sort of pressure, the Patriots don't have a ready answer for it.
16:35Josh McDaniels in the Patriots offense will have answers for everything.
16:39It's just a question of how quickly do you get there with Drake may?
16:42Like I remember Mac Jones's first start against the dolphins, um, the, uh, Brian Flores and
16:50Josh Boyer through the kitchen sink at Drake may, and they had answers to it.
16:55Drake knew, I mean, Mac knew exactly what he was going to see, and that was his very
17:00first game.
17:01And I think the, the longer Drake is in this, especially if they compare him with, you know,
17:07David Andrews getting back to the Patriots scheme.
17:10Like I just think, I think everything's at his disposal.
17:14Josh will not be afraid to use his legs.
17:17He did it with cam.
17:18He wanted Lamar Jackson, uh, when Belichick decided not to draft him.
17:23Uh, I think he's always wanted to see an athletic quarterback in his system and it
17:28might unlock some more things.
17:31And uh, so I, I think Drake should be, uh, beyond excited about that.
17:35I mean, and, and why would you look at his resume plus Tom Brady?
17:39I mean, if you're Drake may, how aren't you excited about this?
17:42You wrote about it over at BSJ, um, that McDaniels was kind of on board with the idea of bringing
17:50Lamar Jackson in here.
17:51Right.
17:52Um, that having that athletic quarterback that you can do so much with, and it's amazing
17:58when you're watching, you know, the playoffs this weekend with all of those, and particularly
18:02the game, you know, between the bills and the Ravens, it's a cheat code.
18:05If you're using it correctly, it's not only using it as a weapon with design runs, but
18:09just the ability to extend the play.
18:11And then how many third downs can you convert with a quarterback who can get out there and
18:15use his legs and just kind of unlocking and unleashing that it's something they were obviously
18:19reluctant to do.
18:20But you have to imagine that McDaniels is going to know this tap into it.
18:25Do you see him running him out there on design runs or just saying, Hey, if you see it, you
18:30can go for it.
18:31But is that going to be a thing that they incorporate into the offense?
18:34I think, I think for sure in certain situations, especially red zone goal line.
18:40Yeah.
18:41I think for sure.
18:42I mean, you can even if, even if you remember, remember the, the Texans game when Jacoby
18:47Brissett started, I think Jacoby Brissett had like a 40 yard touchdown run after the,
18:51you know, they kept things really buttoned up.
18:54They're running outside zone, outside zone.
18:56And then all of a sudden he went naked bootleg and he was all by himself and ran for a touchdown
19:00or a very long run.
19:01I forget exactly what it was.
19:04But yeah.
19:05I, and you also point out, you know, Brian Dayball who came from the same system and
19:09what he did with Josh Allen, you know, Josh is a little bit different beast.
19:13He's bigger and thicker than Drake, but yeah, I think he's going to, he's going to use everything
19:20at his disposal and you know, they're going to get back to like, there's no talking about
19:24next year.
19:25There's no talking about later on in the season, whatever they need to do to win that game
19:30that week.
19:31They are going to do every single week.
19:34Yeah.
19:36Now we know what McDaniels has done.
19:39Is there any, and again, you said he spent the year kind of away.
19:42He did the college tour, you know, maybe picking up some stuff, learning some things, talking
19:46to other people in his year away after being let go as the Raiders head coach.
19:53Is there any downside?
19:55Is there any concern that like, and he's only 48, as you said, but is there any concern
20:01that like, well, he was cutting edge, innovative sort of offensive mind back in his heyday
20:08back in his day.
20:10But you know, the way things have evolved and with the Ben Johnsons and the McVeigh's
20:14and the Shanahan's and all of those things, he's actually kind of an old school guy.
20:19Speak to that.
20:20I'm not going to say a knock on it, but there are some people wondering like, is he like
20:24the old, is this the old shit?
20:26Like, you know, I wanted some of that new stuff that everybody else is tapping into.
20:32Um, I mean, you know, it's hard for me to say, you know, outside of like, you know,
20:38we'll see, but, uh, you know, I do think that he's, he spent a lot of time, um, studying
20:45things, uh, you know, and really a lot of that stuff gets overblown.
20:50I mean, I can tell you that, you know, Ben Johnson borrowed a lot of stuff from the Patriots.
20:56Um, you know, how they use the sixth offensive lineman stuff that was, you know, that was
21:00McDaniels and those guys sure were braided the tight end.
21:04Um, you know, there were other things that, you know, Ben Johnson incorporated from, from
21:09the Patriots.
21:10And so I, like there's, I'll just put it this way.
21:16The only thing that McDaniels is going to be limited by is the talent around them.
21:20I mean, even in 2021, when they were six and points, like they weren't exactly like, you
21:25know, the greatest show on turf.
21:27I mean, from a rookie quarterback, we had a young, I think, you know, Brandon Bolden,
21:31I think was like third on the team, third or fourth in receptions.
21:34You had a bunch of new guys where there's, you know, Jacoby Myers was like their number
21:38one receiver.
21:39I mean, I loved Jacoby and all, but, uh, you know, Hunter Henry was new.
21:45Kendrick form was new.
21:46Nelson Aguilar was new.
21:47John Smith was new.
21:49Um, you know, I think the only thing that confines Josh McDaniels is the talent at his
21:56disposal.
21:57And I think we can all agree that for a long time there, even towards the latter stages
22:01with Brady and he's throwing his helmet and stuff like that, it got pretty limited.
22:06So, um, give him some toys.
22:09He's going to, he's going to use them.
22:11Yeah.
22:12Is there another name outside of McDaniels?
22:14You would have thought maybe like I could see this too, or this could work.
22:21Well certainly anybody from the case, uh, like a Kaylee tree.
22:26Uh, I don't know, but I mean, all those guys and I, and I said this all along, like, I,
22:31I don't want, I don't, I want somebody who has a basis in teaching the quarterback.
22:37I mean, like people are bringing out chip Kelly, chip Kelly's not a quarterback's coach.
22:42He's never been a quarterback's coach.
22:43How did that get, how did that come up and that, that got, that was hot for like 12 hours.
22:49I think it was because, because Vrabel tried to hire Ryan day when he went to Tennessee
22:55and Ryan day is sort of a chip Kelly disciple, uh, same sort of road they traveled UNH and
23:00all that stuff.
23:01But, um, you know, probably something like Dave Ragone, the, the Rams QBs coach seemed
23:06like he was going to be like the next guy.
23:09He would have been like the Matla floor higher.
23:11So that probably would have made, you know, a lot of sense to me, but he had never
23:16coordinated before he'd never called his own place.
23:18So, um, to me, I was always hoping that it was going to be McDaniels.
23:23Cause I, I just think this is the best route for this organization right now.
23:27All right.
23:27Quick pause.
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24:38All right.
24:38Welcome back, Greg.
24:39One thing I wanted to ask you now, the McDaniels thing, as you said earlier in
24:42the show was hinted, rumored, kind of almost assumed, uh, that when Vrabel
24:48came in, that that would happen.
24:49And again, look, head coaches bring in people they are comfortable with.
24:53Oftentimes they've worked with in the past.
24:55They have a familiarity with, uh, you mentioned the, the continuity that
24:58could, uh, come out of this with, with them, you know, being here foundational
25:02pieces, you know, with, with Drake may, uh, for several years, but.
25:07Once again, it seems like the Patriots like hired someone that was basically
25:13preordained, uh, without going through, I don't know whether you think it was a
25:17legitimate OC search or kind of a cursory, you know, once around, let's talk to some
25:23people, but I'm 99% settled on this guy.
25:26Is there any downside to doing this, to just being like zeroed in focused on
25:33this is my guy I'd have to be blown away to go in another direction and not have
25:36an open mind to other possibilities.
25:40I don't even know if you view it that way.
25:41Maybe you don't, maybe you think they went through the process.
25:44I could tell you in the wake of, you know, Vrabel's press
25:48conference and stuff like that.
25:49Like I did not, uh, I did not think that Josh McDaniels was a favorite for this job.
25:54You did not where I did not.
25:56Um, I thought that Vrabel was looking in other directions.
26:00I mean, I could tell you, like, I could tell you for a fact, like this wasn't
26:03like prearranged before Mike Vrabel, like took the job that that's not even close
26:08to true, and if people say that it's not true, um, I think this is something that
26:13I think Mike was systematic in what he wanted to do.
26:16I think he did want to entertain other possibilities.
26:19And, you know, I'm sure the other question that you'll ask me and what
26:22people are curious about, they're going to be like, well, where's ownership on this?
26:26And like, is that, that was my next question.
26:28Yeah.
26:29It's just, it's just an, I don't believe it.
26:31I don't believe they're bringing in a Vrabel here with the idea that, and Robin
26:35Glazer gets moved, you know, resigns.
26:38And all of the talk is about how Vrabel is going to have final say, and then say,
26:42and then shove an OC down his throat.
26:44I, that does not seem like that would be the first thing that they would do to him.
26:49Yeah.
26:50I mean, you know, the second time around, like it's Mike Vrabel is not going to say
26:56like, okay, Robert and Jonathan, I'll hire whoever you want at offensive coordinator.
27:01That's just, that's just not happening.
27:03I mean, it's, I'm sure sports talk radio is going to go crazy with this.
27:07And they're going to be like, this is ridiculous.
27:09Yeah.
27:10I mean, this is the crafts guy.
27:11And they're going to bring up how Josh is still getting paid from the
27:14Raiders and he doesn't have any offset.
27:17I'm sure Josh McDaniels is going to be getting paid plenty, uh, you know, by
27:22the Patriots or, you know, maybe not, but that might be Josh McDaniels.
27:27Um, at least for a couple of years, you know, that just might be Mark, uh, Josh
27:32McDaniels wanting to stick it to Mark Davis.
27:35Um, you know, because, but there's no, there's no offset.
27:38So from what Felger has said, I don't know that to be true, that there's no offset.
27:44So, you know, it used to be, if there was an offset, whatever the
27:47Patriots were paying him, then the Raiders would have to pay the balance
27:50with no offset, the Raiders still have to pay their $10 million a year.
27:54And then Josh gets whatever he gets from the Patriots on top of that.
27:58So it frees them up to take, you know, $4 million a year, $5 million a year.
28:03And I don't think the crafts are going to, I don't think the
28:05crafts had any influence on this.
28:07They, they love Josh.
28:09I know they do.
28:10Um, you know, but I don't think they had any undue influence on this.
28:14And I don't expect this to be an overly cheap hire, like everybody's going to say,
28:19you know, I mean, basically like people need to stop the crap and just realize
28:23that like Josh McDaniels is damn good at what he does, you have a rookie quarterback.
28:27There's nobody better that you can, you can put in his, him into Josh McDaniels
28:34hands, there's nothing you could do better for him.
28:37So just cut the crap and go, go talk about the Celtics and
28:42like a mutiny on the side.
28:44There might be.
28:45Um, yeah, that's what, that's what the garden report is for.
28:49So of all the things you mentioned, the things that I like, I like it
28:52for a million different reasons.
28:54Uh, the thing you mentioned with, I don't believe McDaniels is going
28:57anywhere and you might've set yourself up with, you know, head coach, OC
29:01quarterback for the next 10 plus years, which is great.
29:04Uh, the number two is the quarterback development.
29:07Number three is getting the most out of players and not.
29:10Putting them in positions that they can't Excel or can't be good.
29:13If you're limited in some way you play to their strengths and you try
29:16to not expose their weaknesses.
29:18The last one I love is basically, and what he was in the latter years
29:23with, with, with, with bill is head coach offense and for a defensive
29:27minded coach, that's great because if you do elevate somebody who was a
29:32quarterbacks coach and offensive line coach or whatever that is, you're
29:35putting them in a position to do a job they've never done before for the
29:37first time, which is going to take Mike for Abel's attention away a little
29:41bit from everything else and put it over there, this is a, take it and go.
29:47Like the offense is yours, which is great because you're almost better
29:52off that way if you trust the person that you're bringing in
29:55implicitly, uh, to handle things here.
29:57So is this how you think it's going to go?
30:00McDaniel's it's his show or variable going to have any input in the type of,
30:04you know, offense that he wants to see them run, or is he just going
30:07to let Josh do what Josh does?
30:09I think he's, uh, he's certainly once they get to the season and, you know,
30:13training camp and stuff like that, a variable will certainly have influence.
30:16I mean, I, I expect it to work a lot the same way that it did with bill.
30:22And, and, and, and I do think, I think Josh and Mike are going to
30:26see the game in the same way.
30:28They're going to look at opponents and they're going to see the
30:30same strengths and weaknesses.
30:32Now, you know, variable might be a little bit better at that, but I
30:35think the way it's going to work is, you know, come, you know, Monday
30:39night or whatever, Monday afternoon, when they start game planning for
30:42the next game, variable is going to say, Josh, this is what I, this
30:47is what I want you to do.
30:48This is the way we need to play to win this game.
30:51And McDaniel's is going to go.
30:52Okay.
30:52And he's going to go fashion a game plan that echoes what variable sees.
30:57So this is going to be variables team.
30:59I do, I do.
31:01I think it's a great point by you.
31:02I do think him being, uh, basically head coach offense will free up
31:07variable to do more, you know, maybe some more personnel evaluations,
31:11obviously weigh in with a defensive coordinator and the defensive side,
31:15which is going to be, you know, his baby.
31:17I don't really care who he, he, he has a defensive coordinator because
31:21I do think variable is going to have a strong hand there.
31:24And, but I do think it frees him up to be the overall head coach, think
31:29up shit to trick up people, look for loopholes, all the shit that
31:33Mike variable does that makes him one of the best game management
31:36coaches in the NFL, and I think Josh McDaniel's frees him up a lot to do that.
31:41If Josh McDaniel's was Gerard Mayo's offensive coordinator last
31:46year, does Mayo still have a job?
31:48Uh, yes, absolutely.
31:50In my opinion, I think, and I think that Drake may would have
31:53started from, um, day one pretty much.
31:56And, uh, I think that a lot of the issues that you saw with the offensive
32:01line would not have been as apparent as it was McDaniel's would have done
32:06everything he could to, to, to, to hide them.
32:09And I do think that, um, Mayo would probably be, uh, the head coach of the
32:14crazy, uh, we've got a couple more odds and ends to discuss, but one more quick
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34:12Okay.
34:13We're back.
34:13Um, any other ideas here on how the rest of this offensive staff rounds out?
34:19Do you think there's any guys that, you know, might be connected to Josh or
34:22that he might want to bring in here?
34:23Has anybody survived, uh, who's still kicking around?
34:25How do you see things rounding out?
34:27If you have any thoughts on that?
34:29Um, you know, not really.
34:32I'm trying to think of like the last Patriots staff that was here, who, who
34:38Josh brought with him to Vegas.
34:40Now I know we get Dante.
34:42Can we get Dante back?
34:43Come on.
34:44Dante's Dante's retired and playing a lot of pickleball, uh, at the moment.
34:49Um, you know, Carm Brasillo was his, he, he took Carm with him to LA as his
34:54offensive line coach, but he's currently currently the Giants offensive line
34:58coach, unless for some reason his contract is out.
35:02I don't see that as a possibility.
35:04Cole Popovich was a Patriots offensive line coach.
35:07He's an assistant offensive line coach somewhere now.
35:10So he could be available.
35:12Um, Mick Lombardi is sort of a lower, uh, assistant coach on the Rams.
35:18Uh, Jerry Szaplinski is also there.
35:20He helped with the quarterbacks at one time under McDaniels.
35:23Uh, I would love to see Mick Lombardi back as the wide receivers coach.
35:27Um, you know, I mean, uh, yeah, I mean, you know, we'll have to see, but I just,
35:33it's important, the most important thing is that Vrabel allows, unlike Bill and
35:38with Billy O'Brien, uh, that Vrabel allows Josh McDaniels to say, say, who
35:44do you want and go get those guys so that everybody can be on the same page.
35:48There's alignment in the building.
35:49There's, they, you don't want to teach the coaches and
35:51the players at the same time.
35:53Uh, that would be a great thing for the Patriots.
35:56All right.
35:56As far as the defensive coordinator goes still to be determined, but it does feel
36:01like a favorite has emerged, uh, here, uh, with the, uh, uh, you know, Lyons, uh,
36:08the Terrell, I'm sorry, Terrell Williams.
36:11Sorry.
36:11Um, Lyons Terrell Williams right now, defensive line coach also run game
36:15coordinator, um, and eligible to interview in person, obviously now that
36:19Detroit is gone, uh, interesting there that that's, you know, and Vrabel has
36:23a connection, uh, there as well.
36:25And one thing that you might be up against here is you, you could be
36:29against the clock, uh, with someone like this, if that's who you wanted
36:32to hire, because if, uh, Aaron Glenn gets hired, uh, as an offensive
36:36coach somewhere, you could see Williams get elevated quickly to
36:39defensive coordinator, which would take them off the table.
36:41Um, so this is something that if it happens, it could happen
36:44quickly for a couple of reasons.
36:46But I don't know what you know about him or if you have any thoughts
36:48there or any other, uh, candidates that you think are interesting.
36:51But again, it feels like the momentum is moving in that direction
36:55where he's emerged as a favorite.
36:57Yeah.
36:58I mean, like I said earlier, like I'm not really, I wouldn't say that, uh,
37:03like even say Shane Bowen, who is Vrabel's last defensive coordinator
37:07with the Titans, um, and now the Giants defensive coordinator.
37:10Um, I wouldn't say that anybody thinks he's a defensive mastermind
37:14or anything like that.
37:15Um, so, you know, I'm really not concerned about who they get.
37:19Uh, Terrell Williams seems to be, I mean, he has a lot of respect,
37:23you know, really smart, did a good job with the guys, with the lions.
37:27Uh, I do think, I thought I saw a report that if Aaron Glenn goes,
37:31they're talking about, uh, it was, I can't find the name right now, but
37:36there's a former linebacker, I can picture him as a player, but not as a
37:40coach, uh, who is favored to be the defensive coordinator, uh, should he be
37:45hired that would free up, uh, Terrell Jennings, another name, a guy who was
37:49interviewed Ryan Crow from the dolphins, uh, outside linebackers coach.
37:55There was Vrabel's offensive line, uh, outside linebackers coach.
37:58Um, you know, they, people think a lot of him, um, you know, we'll,
38:04we'll have to see what happens.
38:05A lot of it, you know, a lot of these interviews, those guys could be coming
38:09on at different positions only if their contracts are expired.
38:12So we'll have to see all that, uh, that shakes out.
38:14But the bottom line is it's Mike Vrabel.
38:17He knows what the hell he's doing on defense.
38:19I don't really care who they hire as defensive coordinator.
38:21Uh, the, the OC, the special teams, the offensive line, those things were
38:27real, um, blind spots for Vrabel in Tennessee.
38:30And I think he's, you know, promoting Jeremy Springer, uh, Tom Quinn or keeping
38:36them on, um, along with getting McDaniels now get the offensive line coach.
38:41I think they're largely all set.
38:43And lastly, this is something you had wanted to talk about in your earlier
38:47podcast, uh, that you did with Nick, which, uh, may or may not see the light
38:51of day, uh, didn't get around to it.
38:53So I wanted to circle back and get your thoughts.
38:55We have a final four in the NFL.
38:57And I think the most surprising team for everyone, uh, is the Washington
39:01commanders quarterbacked of course, by, uh, you know, the guy who went before
39:06Drake may, uh, and so everyone's looking over there and thinking, well, jeez,
39:12you know, how did they do that?
39:14And is Jaden better?
39:15And you know, can the Patriots get there that quickly?
39:21Cause again, Washington is neck and neck picking one spot ahead of them a year
39:25ago, and they're in the conference championship, just like that with what
39:28might arguably be the greatest season by a rookie quarterback ever.
39:32Um, and here you are with the, you know, the Patriots situation wondering how far
39:37are they from a turnaround like that?
39:40Uh, I don't think they're very far at all, you know, but I mean,
39:45the commanders got really lucky.
39:46I mean, they might not be as good as all that either.
39:48Yeah.
39:49Right.
39:49I mean, they, they got really lucky.
39:51I mean, they basically, like there's two ways to do a rebuild and, you know,
39:54Elliot Wolf came from, you know, sort of the Packers way, how they did it with
39:58the Browns under John Dorsey, where they did the, you know, let's accumulate
40:04a bunch of draft picks, let's build through the draft, let's do this slowly.
40:07Where, you know, Washington under Adam Peters, um, he decided to do, you know,
40:12we're going to do the, we're going to do both and, you know, that's great.
40:16I mean, if it works, it's great.
40:18Like it has this year, but it doesn't work very often that you go out and
40:21you sign like Wiley, Eckler, Ertz, Allegretti, Wagner, Lou Vu, Chin, Fowler.
40:28You sign all those guys.
40:30Like a lot of those times, those guys are older.
40:33They break down.
40:34They're not any good.
40:35Now your depth gets, they got so lucky.
40:37Those guys stayed healthy all year.
40:39I mean, you know, what's his name?
40:41Zach Ertz.
40:43He hadn't played a full season in like five years and he
40:45played all 17 games this year.
40:47Uh, Austin Eckler was hurt for a time this year, but he came
40:51back in the most important games.
40:53Um, you know, I also think that a big factor was Cliff Kingsbury and this
40:58is where Josh McDaniels comes in.
41:00Cliff Kingsbury was able to scheme around their average offensive line.
41:05Their, their offensive line isn't very good.
41:07They don't run the ball very well.
41:08You know, they need a mobile quarterback to make the
41:11offensive line look better.
41:12And also a lot of scheme, you know, with the RPO and things like that, they were
41:16able to scheme around the offensive line because of Cliff Kingsbury.
41:21So, you know, while, you know, it's great that it worked for Washington, I mean,
41:24the Patriots can try that, but you also run the risk of it doesn't work.
41:29It blows up.
41:30People get hurt.
41:30You get old, you know, you get caught in between.
41:33They got lucky this year.
41:34That's good for them, but that's, that's not the way it always works.
41:37I mean, you look at it, only five teams have gone from bottom two record in the
41:41league to conference championship game, you know, the 2019 49ers, that was, that
41:46was only because it was Shanahan's third year and all the quarterbacks got hurt.
41:51Um, they had to play like Nikki Mullins and, you know, cause Garoppolo got hurt.
41:55Uh, Peyton and breeze, you know, that was unusual.
41:59Um, the Jaguars, it was their second year, um, as an expansion team and the
42:05bangles in 1988 with Sam Weiss and boomer size.
42:09And that was like their fourth year together.
42:12So it wasn't the same sort of situation.
42:14This is if people need to not make the mistake of, this is an anomaly.
42:20What the, what, why has happened to the Washington this year?
42:23They struck, they struck lightning and it's great, but this
42:28is the way it normally goes.
42:29And so you can't just say, cause they did this, you can do this and
42:33you're going to get the same results.
42:34But I do think with Rabel McDaniels, um, Ryan Cowden in here, all these guys
42:42are going to have opinions on Raiders who are free agents, Titans, who are free
42:47agents, Brable was just with the Browns.
42:49They're free agents.
42:50Cowden was with the giants and the Titans before that and Carolina,
42:54Pat Stewart was in Carolina.
42:56You have all these guys now, as opposed to last year's staff who didn't have
43:00any background with guys on the market.
43:02Now you're going to have guys similar to Washington, like Dan Quinn brought
43:05in a lot of his guys, like Bobby Wagner and Lou Vu, you know, where they knew
43:10those guys, and so now with this coaching staff, as opposed to last
43:14year, you have that opportunity.
43:16So I do think they're going to strike that balance and whether it works or
43:19not is largely going to be dependent on how healthy those guys stay.
43:24That is interesting too, because I think that that, you know, from, you
43:28hear Patriots fans say all, you know, all along, like, look at the Patriots
43:32off season and look at what Washington did.
43:35And you're right.
43:35The reality is they, a lot of those were kind of bandaid signings.
43:40You know, they, they, it wasn't that splashy where they hit home runs left and
43:43right, there was a bit of good fortune that came into play there, uh, that,
43:48that turned them around, but yeah, it does seem almost impossible that they
43:53were able to do what they did given where they were last year.
43:57And John, I didn't make this point on February mass, but you know, who also
44:01tried to do the same thing last year and it failed the Tennessee Titans.
44:05They went out there, they signed Calvin Ridley.
44:08They signed Tony Pollard.
44:10They signed Lloyd Cushenberry at center.
44:13They signed Sebastian Joseph day at defensive tackle Westbrook.
44:17I Keeney wide receiver.
44:19They signed all these guys, Kenneth Murray at linebacker.
44:22And guess what?
44:23It didn't work and they were basically had the same record as you.
44:27Yeah.
44:28Quarterback matters.
44:31Oh yeah.
44:32So, um, so yeah, that's going to do it for this episode.
44:35As we said, uh, Greg and Nick will be back later in the week, but this was,
44:40as we said, an emergency, uh, Greg Bedard Patriots podcast, Josh McDaniels
44:44hired his third stint as OC for the new England Patriots, of course, came on
44:512001 as an assistant, worked his way all the way up to OC and QBs coach left.
44:57Denver head coach came back in 2012 was the Patriots offensive coordinator up
45:03until he was hired by the Raiders as their head coach that lasted a year and
45:08change, uh, and Josh has kind of been sitting on the bench waiting for his
45:11next opportunity and what do you know?
45:13It's back here with New England Patriots for his third stint as offensive
45:17coordinator, much more from Greg.
45:19If you want to read a deep dive analysis on the hire, make sure
45:22you go to Boston sports journal.
45:24If you are not a subscriber, you should it's 50 bucks a year for
45:27the best sports coverage in town.
45:29Go check that out.
45:30Also, Mike Giardi all over the Patriots beat, uh, covering a lot of different
45:34things, including some insight on, uh, potential defensive coordinator hire.
45:38So check that out.
45:39As we said, Nick and Greg are back with another episode later this week.
45:43Uh, thank you guys for watching and listening, please hit that subscribe
45:48button, uh, and, uh, leave a review if you could, and if you're watching on
45:52YouTube, subscribe to the Patriots press pass YouTube channel for all of your
45:56Greg Bedard Patriots podcast content.
45:59Take care.