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🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00:00 My therapist always says, "Take care of little Nia."
00:00:03 So when you see this photo of yourself, what feelings do you have?
00:00:24 My grandmother was very religious.
00:00:28 She made me go to church and Sunday school and Easter speeches and all that.
00:00:32 I didn't realize it then.
00:00:33 I just went because I was supposed to be going.
00:00:35 But it came to some points in my life where things just happened that were so real that
00:00:41 there was nowhere else to go but with God.
00:00:44 What was the activation moment of trauma for you?
00:00:47 I think there were several things.
00:00:49 I think the first was being left with a babysitter that was a woman that was older than me.
00:00:55 I mean, that was older and her touching and doing things to me that don't normally happen
00:01:03 to kids.
00:01:04 Like molesting.
00:01:05 Right, basically.
00:01:06 So I was introduced to sex at a very young age.
00:01:10 Really young.
00:01:11 Yeah.
00:01:12 The second thing was that I had this lady that lived next door to us in an apartment.
00:01:15 She was married to this guy.
00:01:16 They had two kids.
00:01:17 Yeah.
00:01:18 And it was around my age and I used to hang out with them.
00:01:20 And I was there one day and I remember like it was yesterday.
00:01:23 They got into an argument.
00:01:25 And me and the little boys was playing in the room and I heard him.
00:01:30 And I heard that saying before, "Yeah, you wait till I get back.
00:01:33 I'll be right back."
00:01:35 And I kind of looked at the boys.
00:01:36 I'm like, "Yo."
00:01:38 And sure enough, he came running upstairs and he went in the closet.
00:01:41 Right?
00:01:42 And when he was going in the closet, he was coming through the closet.
00:01:45 And I saw when he pulled it out, it was like a big, it had to be like a silver .357.
00:01:49 Oh my God.
00:01:50 And I looked at them and I immediately was like, "Yo, we got to hide."
00:01:54 But why did you know to hide?
00:01:57 Because I had been around that before growing up.
00:02:00 So I went and climbed under the sink in the bathroom and hid.
00:02:07 And I heard some yelling and all I heard was, "Pow, pow, pow."
00:02:10 He killed his, the wife?
00:02:11 He didn't kill her.
00:02:12 He shot her like four times.
00:02:13 Oh my God.
00:02:14 Right?
00:02:15 And he ran, left us there.
00:02:19 My mom and dad came looking for me.
00:02:21 Eventually they found me under the sink when the police had everything, it was there.
00:02:26 But I just, you know, they just stuck with me.
00:02:29 And before I was eight, I had already accepted this is the norm.
00:02:35 I was already desensitized.
00:02:37 At eight years old?
00:02:39 Yeah.
00:02:40 I was already thinking like, "Okay, this is what life is."
00:02:43 And it gave me this thing to like always like protect myself.
00:02:47 Right?
00:02:48 Yeah.
00:02:49 Yeah.
00:02:50 Because nothing felt safe.
00:02:51 My brother died when I was younger.
00:02:53 What did it do to your mother?
00:02:54 I mean, my mom had a like very toxic relationship.
00:02:57 You and your mom?
00:02:58 Yes.
00:02:59 My sister's my little sister.
00:03:00 Right?
00:03:01 Yeah.
00:03:02 But I call her my little big sister because she's probably the only person that can talk
00:03:06 sensitive.
00:03:07 My relationship with my father was probably very toxic.
00:03:10 How so?
00:03:11 Well, because he wasn't there.
00:03:13 Okay.
00:03:14 I didn't have the example of what a family was supposed to look like.
00:03:18 Right.
00:03:19 So before you marry someone, it's like, "What is his relationship like with his mother?"
00:03:23 I feel like my mother, it came from her not being raised right.
00:03:29 Very violent, very verbal, very cold.
00:03:32 I just remember that I was kind of on the outside because I looked so much like my father.
00:03:38 They divorced and all I know is my father just told me straight up, "He'll never trust
00:03:42 another woman again," which made me go, "Shit."
00:03:44 Well, what was that about?
00:03:45 Because whatever happened between them hurt him.
00:03:48 So one was not feeling safe and protected when you were molested.
00:03:52 Right.
00:03:53 Two was a void of love and compassion and acceptance from your mom.
00:03:57 Yeah.
00:03:58 And then the third one was, "Okay, now I'm going to completely disconnect from myself
00:04:02 here because there is no love here and I'm going to go to the streets and I'm going to
00:04:06 hustle and I'm going to make money and I'm going to prove that I'm worthy of this love
00:04:11 and I'm going to be somebody."
00:04:12 When I left my mother's house, I had to be around 13, 14 maybe.
00:04:15 Yeah.
00:04:16 And I left because she pulled a gun on me, right?
00:04:18 And basically told me, "You're going to either do what I say or I'm going to take you out
00:04:23 this world," type thing.
00:04:24 I was just like, "Yo, I'm just going to--"
00:04:25 Why was she so hard?
00:04:27 I don't really know her father like that.
00:04:30 As I get older, I start to realize that you just never know what somebody went through.
00:04:35 One thing I love about my mother, she was spicy.
00:04:38 Like she got a tongue that can cut half the world down.
00:04:42 I love it.
00:04:43 So I'm raising boys.
00:04:45 It's very interesting when you are trying to get that young boy to be a man and to go
00:04:53 out into the world.
00:04:56 And I would say that I do a good job of being present with them, but then there's that part
00:05:02 of me where I'm like, "I don't want to raise mama's boys."
00:05:06 I got an option to go to this bootcamp.
00:05:09 And in that camp, I was able to get my GED, learn life skills, and a bunch of different
00:05:14 things.
00:05:15 It was my first time being pulled away from my environment.
00:05:21 So it definitely gave me time to think about what I wanted to do with my life, where I
00:05:26 wanted to go.
00:05:27 And it was a different type of experience because it was a lot of structure, something
00:05:31 that I wasn't used to.
00:05:32 And it's crazy because I'll never forget, it was one of the times that I was there and
00:05:37 I was getting ready to get out.
00:05:38 But I remember we went on a field trip because it was near water.
00:05:43 And I remember just being on a military ship because the waves were crashing against it.
00:05:47 I was just like, "I don't want to go back home.
00:05:49 I might just shit jump."
00:05:51 Really?
00:05:52 Yeah.
00:05:53 And I thought about it a few times.
00:05:56 It was so real.
00:05:57 That's probably the only time in my life where I ever felt that low, that I felt like this
00:06:01 could be the end for me.
00:06:04 And I buckled back down, I came home, and I definitely turned my hustle up.
00:06:09 I just went about it as a business.
00:06:12 And this is around the time that I had my son.
00:06:16 And he made me focus on becoming a man.
00:06:21 We are born as beings meant to be here to love.
00:06:25 Right.
00:06:26 That's the crazy thing though, because as I say here at 46, I can tell you that, but
00:06:31 I can't honestly tell you that I've experienced love, especially non-conditional.
00:06:36 I couldn't tell you that.
00:06:37 It was always something to it.
00:06:40 Well, maybe you had to get open to it first to heal it, to attract it.
00:06:44 Well, I mean, when you're coming up in a family, there should be at least a baseline of health
00:06:53 and just healthy conversation.
00:06:56 And I can say that I probably got more love in the streets than I did when I was...
00:07:04 And that's one of the reasons why I love my grandmother so much, because she was the only
00:07:07 person that I can recall.
00:07:09 My dad's folks was a little more calmer.
00:07:12 My mom's folks, they weren't playing the radio.
00:07:16 Is your mom still alive?
00:07:17 No, my mom passed.
00:07:18 My mom passed during COVID.
00:07:20 She had dementia.
00:07:21 So my dad, same.
00:07:23 My dad passed away the day after Kobe Bryant.
00:07:25 Crazy thing is when she was there and I was going to visit her and when she had dementia,
00:07:32 it was a little crazy because I couldn't really...
00:07:35 Because I was trying to get to a space where I can forgive her.
00:07:38 I used to try to talk to her.
00:07:39 And then my mom's smart, even if she had dementia.
00:07:42 It's like when I started talking about the hard stuff, she started acting like she don't
00:07:47 really understand what I'm saying.
00:07:48 She didn't want to talk about it.
00:07:49 It was too painful for her.
00:07:51 I love my mother.
00:07:53 You know what I'm saying?
00:07:54 Of course you do.
00:07:55 And I think I spent most of my life, which is probably one of the reasons why I'm successful,
00:08:00 it was trying to prove that I'm enough.
00:08:04 And every time I got to a milestone, there was no fulfillment there.
00:08:10 Because she didn't acknowledge it.
00:08:12 She didn't acknowledge it.
00:08:13 I can't say this.
00:08:29 You know, lately I've definitely been on my journey.
00:08:32 So I've done a lot of work.
00:08:34 One of my uncles just passed.
00:08:35 He's one of my favorite uncles.
00:08:39 Everybody who knows my music knows I talk about him.
00:08:40 He's my first uncle that gave me $20.
00:08:42 And I've flipped it a zillion times, and that's how I'm here.
00:08:46 And his name was Bo Slick, and he gave me his disability check.
00:08:49 He passed last month.
00:08:52 That must have been tough.
00:08:55 It's crazy because I went to the funeral home in our hometown, and I went and saw him, right?
00:09:05 And I hadn't seen him in a while.
00:09:06 And he had a smirk on his face, and I was like, "Little Slick, he's still giving them
00:09:11 hell.
00:09:12 Boy, he think it's funny."
00:09:13 He gone home.
00:09:14 But it's crazy because he was laying in the exact same place, the last place I saw my
00:09:18 mom.
00:09:19 And so on the way back, I tell my driver, I give him my address, and I say, "Yo, take
00:09:24 me to this address."
00:09:25 And we pull up.
00:09:26 It's like an old church.
00:09:27 And my sister has it set up nice out there.
00:09:29 We set it up nice where my mom's buried.
00:09:31 We got a bench and all these things.
00:09:33 She has a crown and stuff, so it's really beautiful, right?
00:09:36 And it's peaceful.
00:09:38 And I went out there because I had some life changes that was going on.
00:09:41 And I wrote her a letter on the way there, and I sat down and I read the letter to her.
00:09:46 I told her about her new granddaughter, how amazing and beautiful she was.
00:09:51 I told her that I'm working on my relationship with my son, and we're in a kind of cool place.
00:09:57 I told her about my middle daughter and how beautiful she's turning out.
00:10:01 I told her about my life changes and the things that I'm concerned about, some of my fears,
00:10:07 you know what I'm saying?
00:10:08 And I basically forgave her.
00:10:11 Ooh, that's good.
00:10:12 And my basis of the letter was to tell her everything that was going on in my life, even
00:10:19 if she's not proud.
00:10:20 I understand.
00:10:21 What did you say in the moment of forgiveness?
00:10:23 I understand what it's like to raise a rebellious kid.
00:10:27 I understand what it's like to have your own wounds, your work that she needed to do, right?
00:10:34 And she didn't get a chance to do that.
00:10:36 And I understand that maybe she had a different way of loving me that I didn't understand,
00:10:42 right?
00:10:43 And because my mom the type of, if I go to the basketball court and get jumped, she gonna
00:10:48 take me around there to fight everybody one-on-one.
00:10:50 Me too.
00:10:51 I'm taking my kids too.
00:10:52 She's like, come on, him first, him second, him third.
00:10:54 And I got your back and the Vaseline's in the car and I'm gonna take my earrings off
00:10:58 and let's go.
00:10:59 Yeah, that's her.
00:11:00 But do you understand that that was her way of loving you?
00:11:04 Well, this is what happened.
00:11:07 And this is, I'm gonna keep it a book.
00:11:08 This was like, I was in LA, so this was like maybe two nights ago.
00:11:17 Early morning meditation, I meditated.
00:11:22 I was meditating and I had a vision that I saw my mom.
00:11:28 And I was talking to her, I was just talking.
00:11:36 I just asked her, I said, "I forgive you, but can you forgive me?"
00:11:44 For?
00:11:45 Not for taking what she gave me and embodying that, right?
00:11:52 And having that same type of energy.
00:11:55 Because when my mother died, I didn't grieve, right?
00:11:58 I didn't cry.
00:11:59 You didn't grieve at all.
00:12:00 Not at all.
00:12:01 Nothing.
00:12:02 And I asked her to forgive me for not sending her off right.
00:12:09 One thing I learned about life now is that even if somebody treats you wrong, it's how
00:12:18 you react or respond.
00:12:21 Absolutely.
00:12:22 Right.
00:12:23 That's been the biggest lesson for me.
00:12:24 And I can't look at what she did to me and then react, right?
00:12:30 My response is what we had.
00:12:33 And I promise you, I sat there and I explained to her the things that affected me and why
00:12:40 I couldn't connect at that moment.
00:12:42 And that she asked me for forgiveness, but I wanted her to forgive me.
00:12:49 It's like we left in a gray space, right?
00:12:53 She doesn't know how I feel.
00:12:54 I don't know how she feels.
00:12:55 I promise you, it was like this pain.
00:12:59 It was like somebody stabbing you in the chest with a pitchfork or something.
00:13:06 And it was just like hurt so bad.
00:13:08 And when she told me that she understood, I started to feel it dissolve.
00:13:15 When you get to a place where you can forgive, even when there's pain involved, that's freedom.
00:13:24 It's so tricky.
00:13:25 Because I promise you, I'm a believer, so I'm a very balanced and fair person.
00:13:30 But 99.9% of the people I've met in my life have wronged or did something that I just
00:13:39 was like, "Wow."
00:13:42 And it could be anyone from any day.
00:13:45 So it was always just that.
00:13:47 And I go back to that instance when I was under that cabinet.
00:13:51 You feel what I'm saying?
00:13:54 Yes, I do.
00:13:55 You feel that.
00:13:56 And I imagine going through that throughout your life.
00:13:59 And that's what I have to tell people.
00:14:00 I don't think people understand that.
00:14:02 It's like when you tell people you lost this many people, they look at it like you're exaggerating.
00:14:07 But you got to really think about it.
00:14:08 Let's just say Tupac.
00:14:09 Tupac was 25, 26 when he died.
00:14:12 Imagine how many people he lost if he ever sat down and told you, "I'm double his age.
00:14:18 I live past him.
00:14:20 So I've lived four or five different lives."
00:14:22 As you had these different versions of self, did you feel connected to the experience or
00:14:32 did you have an awareness to say, "I know that what I'm doing is wrong, but this is
00:14:37 what I have to do to survive"?
00:14:39 Well, this is the thing.
00:14:42 I learned my gifts early on.
00:14:45 I was a visionary because I always see things.
00:14:47 And I noticed that I was a disrupter because I find myself going with the not so popular
00:14:52 decision, but I know what's right in my heart and I'm a problem solver.
00:14:58 And going backwards, God gave me a gift.
00:15:01 I understand that because he kept me safe.
00:15:03 He kept me alive.
00:15:04 He kept me free.
00:15:05 And he made me successful in a sense.
00:15:07 I hadn't gave anything back to him yet, which is why I lost my voice because I tore my vocal
00:15:11 cords in the beginning of my career, which is why I said I must-
00:15:14 How did you do that?
00:15:16 Not knowing how to perform and tore my vocal cords.
00:15:18 Did you have to have an operation?
00:15:20 Yeah, and I didn't have insurance.
00:15:21 I got three Lamborghinis and no insurance.
00:15:23 I had insurance on my cars and didn't have insurance on me.
00:15:27 I had to pay for it with a brown paper bag.
00:15:29 After that, I did my praying and he got me out of it.
00:15:32 And then I got hit with a bell spousy and my face was crooked.
00:15:39 That's like one of the last time I talked to my mother because I told her I was scared.
00:15:41 I was like, "I don't think my face will ever go back again," because it was crooked.
00:15:47 But do you remember what happened?
00:15:48 Because that's an emotional nerve thing.
00:15:51 Well, I wasn't taking care of myself.
00:15:54 I was drinking Cristal for breakfast and Waffle House.
00:15:57 I was 260.
00:15:58 I was just in bad shape.
00:16:01 I got an album out that's doing well.
00:16:04 I'm going around the world.
00:16:05 I'm at war.
00:16:06 You know what I'm saying?
00:16:07 I'm losing friends left and right.
00:16:09 I'm at war with people who have, at the time, way more money than I did and more influence
00:16:13 and power.
00:16:14 And it's like I'm just holding my own.
00:16:16 Again, under that sink.
00:16:18 And it's just like the same people that told me they was my brothers and now they're trying
00:16:20 to kill me.
00:16:21 Imagine that.
00:16:22 And this ain't around the corner.
00:16:25 This is state to state.
00:16:26 So now I'm dealing with all this and I'm trying to navigate it.
00:16:31 And God got me out of that again.
00:16:34 Look, I think it's really important for black men and black women to have these conversations.
00:16:39 I don't think we have these conversations enough.
00:16:42 And I think it's a really tragic place when there's a person who's afraid of intimacy,
00:16:48 right?
00:16:49 Because intimacy is the trigger in which we can actually start to unpack ourselves.
00:16:53 Are you guarded?
00:16:54 Because you seem guarded.
00:16:55 Yeah.
00:16:56 Very.
00:16:57 One thing is my relationships have been very much on the surface when I started losing
00:17:03 a lot of people.
00:17:04 Are you talking about love relationships or homies?
00:17:07 Like people?
00:17:08 Homies and then even love relationships I've been in where people just ain't right.
00:17:14 You do realize, and I've had to learn this too, because I can be guarded as well, right?
00:17:20 Is if you are carrying that, you attract that.
00:17:25 So if someone else is guarded or someone else is not being their full authentic self, it's
00:17:31 because in some sort of way we haven't settled in.
00:17:38 And I think it's really hard to do when you're in the industry that we're in because everything
00:17:43 about this industry tells you you have to be a certain version of yourself that people
00:17:48 expect you to be.
00:17:49 But see, that's the thing.
00:17:50 See, I go even farther back because my situations are dire, right?
00:17:57 Because if you're not guarded-
00:17:59 Then you're dead.
00:18:00 There you go.
00:18:01 And if you're not guarded and you're not smart, then you end up in prison.
00:18:06 If you're not guarded, you're not smart, then you're up in these situations where you're
00:18:11 on the losing end.
00:18:12 Then going into music, it didn't make it any better because now this same type of energy
00:18:17 follows you.
00:18:18 Now you're an act.
00:18:19 But see, that's the thing.
00:18:21 That's where the imposter syndrome get reversed because it's not me wanting to be like them,
00:18:28 it's them wanting to be like me.
00:18:30 Right.
00:18:31 I'm the truth.
00:18:32 I ain't his daddy, his cousin, his uncle, his brother.
00:18:34 I'm him.
00:18:35 There's nobody that I know that's walked this path of life that I walked that can stand
00:18:40 where I stand and say I did the things that I did.
00:18:42 Anybody who really has common sense knows that, right?
00:18:46 But I want to ask you, how do you know that I'm guarded just by having this conversation?
00:18:49 Because I'm from where you from and I see it.
00:18:51 Game recognize game.
00:18:52 Talk that talk.
00:18:53 Game recognize game.
00:18:54 I see you're guarded too though a little bit.
00:18:57 Well, yeah, I am.
00:18:58 I'm guarded-
00:18:59 How does that make you guarded?
00:19:01 Don't fuck with my kids.
00:19:04 That's like off limits.
00:19:07 Not even a little bit.
00:19:08 And if you do, you will hear from me.
00:19:11 That comes from me not always feeling safe as little Nia and me not wanting my children
00:19:17 to ever not feel like they don't have me active in their lives as their safety.
00:19:22 I love my son.
00:19:23 I think he's an amazing guy.
00:19:25 I think he's very charismatic.
00:19:26 I think he got all the things, but I think that the way I've tried to love him over the
00:19:30 years was totally wrong.
00:19:33 Not his love language for one.
00:19:34 And I think the things that I instilled in him as a youngster doesn't serve him now.
00:19:41 I had a really public breakup recently.
00:19:45 It was a wake up call for me in the sense of like, "Okay, you're going to do this on
00:19:52 your own and you're going to be fine.
00:19:54 And you're not going to worry about what anyone thinks and has to say."
00:19:58 Because the relationship was rocky for a very long time.
00:20:01 Because I don't believe another person can break anyone up.
00:20:04 I just don't buy that.
00:20:07 To your point with your son, I think my older son saw me trying to keep the family together,
00:20:19 but I had to come to a place where loving myself was bigger and more important than
00:20:32 saving anybody.
00:20:33 Well, if you can't, if you got to save your star player, if your star player is not doing
00:20:37 good, the team is-
00:20:38 Can we not talk players?
00:20:39 Can we use a different-
00:20:40 Can we say like the best horse in the race?
00:20:45 Oh my God.
00:20:48 But the reason I know that you're guarded is because when I was in high school, I only
00:20:53 dated drug dealers.
00:20:54 Oh, really?
00:20:55 Oh my God.
00:20:56 That's where I was.
00:20:57 I lived in South Central LA.
00:20:58 That's what it was.
00:20:59 Wow.
00:21:00 I would have never thought that.
00:21:01 Really?
00:21:02 Nah.
00:21:03 But going through your trials and tribulations, I know you're working on yourself like we
00:21:09 all are.
00:21:10 Do you feel that you're okay?
00:21:14 Not what people are supposed to see and supposed to think, but you.
00:21:19 I think I'm exactly where I need to be, which is some days I'm like totally good.
00:21:25 And then other days I'm like, "Oh God, this feels like so much work."
00:21:31 And then other days it feels like women shouldn't have to be this strong.
00:21:39 I don't want to be this strong sometimes.
00:21:41 Okay.
00:21:43 You made me cry.
00:21:44 I got you first.
00:21:45 But you're good though.
00:21:46 No, I'm good.
00:21:47 I mean, listen, it is what it is.
00:21:53 It's life.
00:21:54 It's a funny thing because I always saw myself, my vision of myself was a well-manicured man,
00:22:04 good skin, wedding band, playing Jane Watson.
00:22:07 I'm wearing this right now.
00:22:09 That's not playing Jane, by the way.
00:22:11 That's very reminiscent of Hustler days.
00:22:13 I feel a little-
00:22:14 That's a little Hustler-y.
00:22:15 We're supposed to be playing Jane, but I felt a little spicy.
00:22:17 Not to get that name played, Jane.
00:22:20 And I don't think anybody should have to be that strong.
00:22:23 Black people have survived insurmountable obstacles.
00:22:32 The journey of being black in America is not easy.
00:22:36 And I'm not a victim to any of it, but I'm realistic to the journey.
00:22:41 I know how I am treated differently in certain situations.
00:22:46 I understand that I have to raise my boys to be men.
00:22:49 I understand that I have to figure out the balance between being soft and vulnerable
00:22:55 and open.
00:22:56 Is that hard?
00:22:57 No, because that's who I want to be.
00:23:01 That's who I really am.
00:23:02 But I would say, firstly, I would appreciate that because it's hard because women have
00:23:09 it, their own thing they go through.
00:23:11 But then when you deal with men and you have that hard exterior, it's hard because we already
00:23:19 fighting the world.
00:23:20 You know what I'm saying?
00:23:21 But so are we.
00:23:22 But that's what we got to find to have immediate.
00:23:24 I didn't have enough examples in my own life to understand what it really meant or what
00:23:31 it really means to see a relationship between a man and a woman that is healthy and balanced
00:23:40 and you work through things instead of like every conversation is not an argument.
00:23:46 And I don't think black men and black women have those conversations enough.
00:23:51 Even now we're doing the work that don't mean everybody else is on board.
00:23:56 And that's the crazy part.
00:23:57 But that's the thing.
00:23:58 You got to let them go.
00:24:00 You got to let them go and you got to let them be on their own journey and you can't
00:24:04 fight for it anymore.
00:24:05 And you got to love them exactly where they are.
00:24:08 And you got to say, baby, you know what?
00:24:10 The hardest thing to do is to walk away from someone that you still love.
00:24:14 You didn't tell me you were a pastor too.
00:24:15 No, I'm just speaking from my own, speaking from like, you know,
00:24:19 I 1000% agree because the hardest thing I had to do in life was walking away from everything
00:24:25 that I knew that could support me.
00:24:26 That's right.
00:24:27 But what was the moment that you knew you had to walk away?
00:24:29 Something happened in Dubai.
00:24:31 Somebody got killed and they tried to put it on us while I was on tour with Khalifa.
00:24:35 They came and locked me up right here in LA.
00:24:38 I just remember being in jail and, you know, I took care of everybody.
00:24:45 A million dollar bill for everybody.
00:24:47 $10 million.
00:24:48 Oh my God.
00:24:49 I'm sitting in the county jail and as soon as I get in there, somebody comes to get me
00:24:56 out and they're like, we got to get you out of here.
00:24:59 And I'm like, no, I can't leave these people in the county jail.
00:25:03 I got to stay here until, you know, I can get everybody out the same way we came in.
00:25:07 Yeah.
00:25:08 And you know, of course I didn't want to tell nobody how to touch my finances.
00:25:10 So I had to figure that part out.
00:25:12 I ended up getting everybody out.
00:25:13 But my point is I sat in there for two weeks until I can get everybody out.
00:25:17 The people that I had that were supposed to be in my corner, ain't nobody check on my
00:25:20 son, my daughter, my household.
00:25:24 And when I got out of jail, I was at the lowest point in my life.
00:25:27 I did everything right on this tour.
00:25:29 I didn't take any gang members or nothing crazy.
00:25:32 I took the people that was working.
00:25:34 I stayed on my bus the whole time.
00:25:36 I did everything right.
00:25:37 And I got caught up.
00:25:38 I had Mr. Farrakhan calling me every other day like, "Jeezy, brother, the enemy is coming."
00:25:44 I'm just like, what the hell is going on?
00:25:46 So why was he calling you?
00:25:47 He called me and said, "Brother Jeezy, your message is changing.
00:25:52 The enemy is coming to get you."
00:25:54 I said, "With all due respect, Mr. Farrakhan, all my enemies in my neighborhood, I'm not
00:25:59 going back there no time soon."
00:26:00 He said, "No, the enemy."
00:26:02 What he was saying was that my message was changing and I was starting to educate my
00:26:06 people.
00:26:07 Oh, wow.
00:26:08 And now here comes the enemy.
00:26:10 And he wasn't lying.
00:26:13 When I got to that arena to do my show in front of 30,000 people, it was my turn to
00:26:18 go on stage.
00:26:19 It was maybe 70 police back there waiting to take me to jail.
00:26:23 It was a span of my life, maybe like three years, probably shortly after my first album.
00:26:30 It was shootout to shootout.
00:26:32 I've been in shootouts with my dad being right there.
00:26:34 And it's like a combo of everything.
00:26:36 So it was a combo of the street shit I had going on before that.
00:26:39 It was a combo of the get money life with these guys.
00:26:43 And then it was a combo of just people that I just never had a liking for.
00:26:46 They didn't have a liking for me, that we just was in the same city trying to coexist.
00:26:51 I used to get up and pick my outfit based on what I was ... If it happened tonight,
00:26:57 how I was going to look.
00:26:59 You were like, "If I die tonight, my shit's going to be fly."
00:27:01 Do you realize what that does to your psyche just leaving the house thinking, "I got to
00:27:06 make sure my shit is fly if I get killed?"
00:27:08 Boxers, everything.
00:27:09 I want to wear the best boxes, brand new socks.
00:27:11 You're like, "I will not have any holes in my underwear."
00:27:15 I promise you, that was my life.
00:27:17 I didn't understand how I was going to even make it out.
00:27:22 And that's where all the drinking came in because now I'm trying to self-soothe.
00:27:24 I'm trying to-
00:27:25 Were you an alcoholic, you think?
00:27:26 1000%.
00:27:27 Did you go to AA or did you just-
00:27:29 No, I just stopped.
00:27:30 You stopped?
00:27:31 Because my mom and my dad, they was ... My mom's side of the family, they drank a lot.
00:27:36 And when I was leaning in on my vices, I started to notice that there was a couple of things
00:27:42 that happened a few times where I wasn't sharp.
00:27:44 And I was just like, "Okay, if I don't stop this, I'm going to get got."
00:27:48 And then I would just back away from the alcohol.
00:27:50 And what I would do is ... Well, two things.
00:27:53 The first thing is I wanted to get healthy.
00:27:57 So I got down, I dropped 60 pounds, got myself together.
00:28:01 This was right before the recession because any time in my career before, from Streets
00:28:06 is Watching to the recession, which was about six years, I was out of it.
00:28:12 I wasn't even ... I was leading men.
00:28:14 I went everywhere with 150, 200 people.
00:28:17 In every city I went to, it's another 300 waiting on us.
00:28:20 It was like a real thing.
00:28:23 And I was leading everybody off the end of a cliff.
00:28:24 [Music]
00:28:40 So you were saying that you feel like we can't connect because we're doing too much time
00:28:48 fighting each other-
00:28:49 Absolutely.
00:28:50 ... instead of fighting for the relationship.
00:28:52 We're fighting for love and understanding and commitment and compassion.
00:28:57 But it starts with men feeling comfortable enough to be vulnerable and open.
00:29:05 And that's a hard thing to ask a man to do because we were not conditioned that way.
00:29:11 A lot of us weren't raised that way.
00:29:13 It can be considered a sign of weakness in the same way that therapy is considered a
00:29:17 sign of weakness.
00:29:18 We're talking about your experiences and my experiences.
00:29:21 We have more in common than we probably ever thought we did.
00:29:25 And so to me, that's the thing that makes me feel this sense of urgency to have this
00:29:32 conversation with you.
00:29:34 But also there's a hopefulness.
00:29:37 There's a hopefulness that if we actually each do the work, we can actually come together
00:29:42 because there's nothing more important to me than black people.
00:29:46 We are the greatness in every room.
00:29:50 We are the ones who set it off and make it happen.
00:29:53 We are the ones that create the culture.
00:29:55 We are the artists.
00:29:56 This is true.
00:29:57 We are the artiste.
00:29:59 We are the voices-
00:30:00 What?
00:30:01 ... that lead the masses.
00:30:04 But what has always hurt me to the core is why is there this dismantlement of the black
00:30:10 family?
00:30:11 Why isn't it that black men and black women can't sit like you and I are sitting in a
00:30:16 space and have really open dialogues about things and work through the trauma because
00:30:22 that's the only way we can really, really, really be productive?
00:30:29 You said if it couldn't work, then you would leave.
00:30:32 Yes.
00:30:33 Even if there was a family, even if there was kids involved.
00:30:38 If the other person is not willing to do the deep, hard work, then you stay.
00:30:48 And when you stay, you have to make yourself smaller to stay, to survive.
00:30:54 I 1000% agree with you.
00:30:57 Or you may not.
00:30:58 I think for a woman, it means you have to make yourself smaller to feel like you're
00:31:03 fitting into this space with this person who's not ready yet.
00:31:08 You can still love them, by the way.
00:31:11 You can still love them.
00:31:12 You can still wish them the best.
00:31:13 You can still ... I mean, you might have moments where you want to cuss somebody out.
00:31:18 That's normal.
00:31:19 We have feelings and emotions, but you can love people right where they are because to
00:31:25 me that's really a sign of my own personal growth.
00:31:29 If you can love the person that hurt you-
00:31:31 But you mean love them from afar?
00:31:33 You love them from afar.
00:31:35 You wish them well.
00:31:36 You bless them on their journey and you hope that the next time around that they have the
00:31:41 opportunity to do the work that they do the work.
00:31:43 What happens when you're a man and you want nothing more than that?
00:31:47 Right?
00:31:48 And that's not what you're getting on the other side.
00:31:50 And there are kids involved, right?
00:31:52 And there's somewhat love there and you understand that somebody else might have their thing,
00:31:59 but they're not taking this journey with you of healing.
00:32:03 Because I think love is two people healing together and giving each other the space to
00:32:07 do so.
00:32:08 Absolutely.
00:32:09 And the thing for me is when I went to visit my mother that day, I went to forgive her,
00:32:16 but I also went to tell her that I'm going to stand up for Lil' J.
00:32:21 That's right.
00:32:22 Right?
00:32:23 The Lil' J that she put in that position.
00:32:26 And I think a lot of my healing journey, especially in my real life, had a lot to do with me never
00:32:33 standing up to my mother the right way.
00:32:35 That's right.
00:32:36 Which made me be a certain way in real life.
00:32:39 You're kind of all the things.
00:32:40 Right.
00:32:41 What's all the things you mean?
00:32:42 I mean, like, you're like a cat.
00:32:46 You've kind of lived nine lives.
00:32:48 You've had many different versions of self.
00:32:50 So right now, where are we?
00:32:52 In my life, I wanted to have a family family.
00:32:55 Yeah.
00:32:56 I wanted to be that guy.
00:32:58 I wanted to be the person.
00:32:59 To get it right.
00:33:00 To get it right.
00:33:01 Me too.
00:33:02 I wanted to get it right.
00:33:03 To get it right.
00:33:04 To be right.
00:33:05 Yes.
00:33:06 To do all the things.
00:33:07 And you get in that space and you're letting your inner child down and you're not protecting
00:33:12 them and that's making you shrink in situations like that too.
00:33:15 Men do.
00:33:16 Yes.
00:33:17 Because if you're not appreciated, if you're met with resistance, if you're met with that
00:33:21 inner thing that somebody else has from their thing.
00:33:25 To me, that's fixable.
00:33:27 You got to want to do the work.
00:33:29 I agree.
00:33:30 But you just said clearly, a person doesn't mean to you out.
00:33:35 There's an expiration date on everything.
00:33:37 Right.
00:33:38 Right.
00:33:39 Like, and you got to know when it's time to be done.
00:33:43 Right.
00:33:44 And that's usually not about another person, an affair or, you know, some chick that's
00:33:50 willing to like make you feel like a king.
00:33:53 Because that's why most men cheat.
00:33:55 Most men cheat because-
00:33:57 That's fascinating to me.
00:33:58 It's so gross.
00:33:59 It's so stupid.
00:34:00 I personally, this is my quote, "Real niggas don't cheat."
00:34:04 You don't think so?
00:34:05 Hell no.
00:34:06 I kind of understand what you mean when you say that.
00:34:09 They do not.
00:34:10 I understand what you mean when you say that.
00:34:11 It's something in us that makes us want to be right.
00:34:16 Right?
00:34:17 Across the board.
00:34:18 But is that so that you are living up to the expectation that you've set for yourself?
00:34:27 Because again, you're going back to your childhood wounds of trying to be perfect to receive
00:34:32 the love from your mom?
00:34:34 Or is that really where you've landed that you want to be a man that does things the
00:34:39 right way because you want to be honorable and you want to respect the woman that you're
00:34:43 with?
00:34:44 Because those are two different things.
00:34:45 I'm just real and I'm just, anybody that's real, and when I say real, I mean real with
00:34:50 yourself.
00:34:51 Yeah, yeah.
00:34:52 You know what I'm saying?
00:34:53 Yeah.
00:34:54 You're going to hold, there's a sense of integrity there.
00:34:56 Absolutely.
00:34:57 You know what I'm saying?
00:34:58 God, what happened to integrity?
00:35:01 My life is built on integrity.
00:35:04 That's my moral compass.
00:35:05 Yeah.
00:35:06 If I'm not integral, I'm off.
00:35:09 And for me, doing the work is integral.
00:35:14 For me, coming forth and telling my truth is integral.
00:35:19 For me, taking the mask off and saying, "You know what?
00:35:22 Even your favorite, Trapper's favorite Trapper has flaws and things that he has to work through,"
00:35:28 is integral.
00:35:29 Doing a versus battle in front of the world where they know who you are and what you're
00:35:35 capable of and you're taking another approach because you want to save lives is integral.
00:35:40 It's disruptive not making the favorite or the most favorable choice because you know
00:35:48 you have a position to play.
00:35:50 So when I say that-
00:35:51 Well, it's in your purpose, right?
00:35:52 Like when you're more in a line with your purpose.
00:35:54 And I swear to you that more than ever, I understand my purpose is walking in these
00:36:01 footprints that God has left for me.
00:36:03 And what is your purpose now?
00:36:04 My purpose is to be the best version of myself and to teach my culture everything that I
00:36:10 learned along the way.
00:36:12 Just like I did when I was in the streets and I made music, now that I'm writing books,
00:36:17 everything that I learned is in that book.
00:36:19 Everything that you see me do in real life is my contribution to the blessings that I
00:36:26 have.
00:36:27 Showing men that we can come from where we come from and still be integral, still be
00:36:33 solid individuals.
00:36:34 Because I think what you're saying is we haven't seen enough examples of solid individuals.
00:36:39 That's right.
00:36:40 We don't have that roadmap.
00:36:41 People is either one side or the other is like, you know, somebody's thinking for self.
00:36:46 We're not thinking for we, right?
00:36:48 Somebody's either trying to...
00:36:49 And by the way, I had to go back and dial my ego all the way back down.
00:36:54 That's the other thing we haven't talked about.
00:36:56 There's no space in any of what we're talking about for ego.
00:37:01 Right.
00:37:02 When you're living by ego, you're basically trying to either A, control someone or to
00:37:07 get them to see life the way you see it.
00:37:09 And I had to learn that that's not how you live life.
00:37:15 And most of my ego came from fear.
00:37:17 Absolutely.
00:37:18 Right.
00:37:19 There's good ego.
00:37:20 There's good ego that allows you to do this because this is something new.
00:37:25 There's good ego that allows you to be a disruptor.
00:37:29 That's good ego.
00:37:30 Because in disrupting the system, in disrupting what we're used to seeing, you're also providing
00:37:36 a new way of doing things.
00:37:37 Right?
00:37:38 It's hard though.
00:37:39 Yeah, it's hard because you're putting yourself in a position to be an example, but you're
00:37:45 still learning and growing.
00:37:46 And also you're putting yourself in a position to lose everything that you built because
00:37:51 people can look at you and you know our culture.
00:37:54 You can do one thing and they're like, "Oh, we cool with him."
00:37:57 You know what I'm saying?
00:37:58 I had to learn not to teach or to preach.
00:38:02 You know, I'm not this role model.
00:38:04 I'm just saying that when you come from where we come from, it's okay to evolve because
00:38:10 at the end of the day, I don't want my kids to think I was just a great artist.
00:38:15 You know what I'm saying?
00:38:16 I'm a great man.
00:38:17 I'm a great person.
00:38:18 You know, I'm a great father.
00:38:19 And I'm the same guy.
00:38:20 That's more important than anything.
00:38:21 Yeah, because I was saying, "God, I'm a real nigga."
00:38:23 Like all that.
00:38:24 I know you're all these things.
00:38:26 I'm all the things.
00:38:27 Right?
00:38:28 I was trying to talk to you and you looked at me like I was crazy.
00:38:29 No, I was trying to figure out what things you were saying.
00:38:34 But I'm all the things, right?
00:38:36 And I'm also somebody who's failed.
00:38:38 I'm also somebody who's lost.
00:38:39 I'm also somebody who my life plays out in public a lot, right?
00:38:44 And people always see the bad things.
00:38:46 I'm always somebody who wants to do the right thing.
00:38:50 And sometimes, you know, the masses don't want that, right?
00:38:53 And sometimes, you know, I've been taught to keep your mouth closed and don't tell people
00:38:58 anything, right?
00:38:59 Especially how you live and how you move.
00:39:00 Well, that's what we've all been taught.
00:39:02 Right.
00:39:03 And now just opening up and having these conversations, you know, there's a lot of times where I'm
00:39:07 just like, "Wow."
00:39:08 Like, you know, when you see people not getting the message right and you go, they just really
00:39:14 don't understand.
00:39:15 As black people, this is a beautiful time for us to be inspired by each other.
00:39:22 Right.
00:39:23 I'm able to say we no longer have to have this experience on this planet in this small
00:39:29 vacuum where we are of service to the world.
00:39:33 And when I say to the world, I mean to white pop culture.
00:39:37 Now there are tools and examples and people and practices in place that can inspire us
00:39:44 in a different way.
00:39:45 When I was, you know, nine years old wanting to be an actress, when I was little Nia, there
00:39:50 were like very few people I could look up to and say, "Oh, that's who I want to be."
00:39:55 We've cracked that a little bit, a lot of it.
00:39:59 So now I think what you're saying is we all have the choice.
00:40:04 We have the choice to decide when and where we're going to get the mental health support
00:40:09 that we need, but you got to want it.
00:40:13 And I think the stigma behind mental health, especially with black men is huge.
00:40:19 Is a weakness.
00:40:20 And the reality is, is your brain is a muscle like anything else on your body.
00:40:28 If you can go to the gym and lift weights, then you should be able to sit down with someone
00:40:32 and exercise that muscle in between your ears and have those conversations.
00:40:36 Because those conversations are tough, but they're also really necessary.
00:40:39 Yeah.
00:40:41 It's hard though, because I have, you know, I have people that I know look up to me that
00:40:47 they really have been there with me through a lot of things.
00:40:51 And I think they don't understand-
00:40:53 Where you're at.
00:40:54 And where I'm going.
00:40:56 It's like the disconnect is so real and it's almost like there's only a chosen few people
00:41:02 who understand what's really at stake.
00:41:04 I was talking to a guy friend of mine a while ago and he said, "Nia."
00:41:10 And I was just complaining, complaining, complaining, complaining, complaining, complaining.
00:41:13 And I was like, "What am I supposed to do?
00:41:15 I love this person."
00:41:17 And he said, "Everyone has a cap on their capacity.
00:41:23 And if their capacity is full, you could be doing back flips, front flips.
00:41:31 You could be the best.
00:41:34 The sex could be amazing.
00:41:35 All these things could be amazing in that relationship.
00:41:41 But if that person's capacity and desire to grow isn't there, then you hit that wall."
00:41:51 And I'm not saying that everyone that hits the wall should give up.
00:41:55 I'm saying that if your partner hits the wall and you're not quite there yet in your personal
00:42:02 growth, you have a big decision to make.
00:42:04 If I'm already in my partner's now, what happens?
00:42:07 Well Heidi knows she's not.
00:42:08 Let's just say I know, like it wasn't.
00:42:12 What do I do?
00:42:13 You're my sister right now.
00:42:14 I'm your sister.
00:42:15 Well, you're giving me some advice, hypothetically speaking.
00:42:18 Well, you don't want my advice because my advice is I'm out.
00:42:22 Really?
00:42:23 No, I don't give up easily.
00:42:26 I will never give up on someone I love.
00:42:29 I don't care how high we are or how low we are.
00:42:33 That's how I feel about it.
00:42:34 I love me now.
00:42:35 There's a point I didn't.
00:42:36 So I can't give up on myself.
00:42:39 That's choosing yourself.
00:42:40 Is that wrong?
00:42:42 No.
00:42:43 That's the ultimate freedom, the ultimate acceptance, who you are now, where you are
00:42:49 now.
00:42:50 And where's that picture you showed me earlier of you when you were younger?
00:42:55 That's my guy right there.
00:42:56 That's Lil Jay.
00:42:57 I talk to him all the time.
00:42:58 Let's just stop.
00:42:59 He looks so cute.
00:43:00 He was kind of cute.
00:43:01 You know what I'm saying?
00:43:02 He's a cutie.
00:43:03 Cutie patootie.
00:43:04 You know what I'm saying?
00:43:05 Lil guy is the way he's good.
00:43:06 Well, you got to have a little gangster.
00:43:07 It's boring if you ain't got no gangster.
00:43:09 When you look at him now, what do you feel?
00:43:13 Honestly, I'm going to share this, and I haven't shared it with anyone.
00:43:18 I had a meditation where I was in a deep meditation for like 45 minutes.
00:43:25 And I dozed off into this field.
00:43:30 It's like a field.
00:43:31 And it was like an old house in the middle of the field, like a barn house.
00:43:37 And I walked through the field, and I walked in the house.
00:43:40 And there was a TV on that was playing cartoons.
00:43:42 And I walked around the house.
00:43:43 I didn't see anyone.
00:43:44 Went in the kitchen, went in the room, didn't see anyone.
00:43:46 And something told me to go downstairs.
00:43:50 And I walked downstairs into the basement.
00:43:52 It was kind of dark, little light on in the corner.
00:43:56 Couldn't really see much.
00:43:58 And I walked around the basement, and I ended up in the corner.
00:44:03 And I heard someone sniffling.
00:44:05 I walked over, and I said, "Hey, what's going on?"
00:44:09 And then he added his back to me.
00:44:12 And I said, "What's wrong, buddy?"
00:44:14 And he turned around, and it was my younger self, the same face in his picture.
00:44:21 And I said, "What's wrong?"
00:44:23 And he said that, "I'm tired of everybody."
00:44:29 Like he basically was trying to tell me he's tired of not being able to trust anybody and
00:44:35 everybody doing him dirty.
00:44:37 Dirty.
00:44:38 Right?
00:44:39 And he was crying, and I just looked at him.
00:44:41 I said, "It's okay now.
00:44:42 I'm here, buddy."
00:44:43 To protect self.
00:44:44 And he said, "You sure?"
00:44:45 I said, "Yes, I'm here."
00:44:49 And he just looked at me.
00:44:51 He said, "You promise?"
00:44:52 And I said, "Yeah."
00:44:53 And I said, "Give me a hug, man."
00:44:55 And I literally, like this is real talk, I'm laying in my bed.
00:45:00 I ain't cried since Tupac died.
00:45:02 Right?
00:45:03 We all cried that night.
00:45:04 And I'm laying in my bed, and I'm feeling tears roll down my face in my bed.
00:45:10 And I looked at him, I said, "You're good, buddy.
00:45:13 I'm here with you now.
00:45:14 I got you."
00:45:15 And then I said, "Why are you in the basement?"
00:45:18 He said, "Because I was hiding."
00:45:19 I said, "Well, what do you want to do, man?"
00:45:21 He said, "I want to go play.
00:45:22 I want to have fun."
00:45:23 I said, "Well, let's go play."
00:45:24 So I took him upstairs.
00:45:27 He ran outside, ran around the whole field and the yard, swinging on the chairs.
00:45:31 I'm literally feeling myself go from tears to smiling, because he's happy.
00:45:39 And we played all day.
00:45:42 Played till he got tired, and we went in the house, and we sat on the sofa, and he watched
00:45:46 cartoons until he fell asleep.
00:45:48 And he sat on my lap, where he laid across.
00:45:51 And in the middle of it, he just woke up, and he's like, "I love you, man."
00:45:56 And when I tell you-
00:45:57 That was it for you.
00:45:58 It was almost like my heart, it exploded.
00:46:02 Whatever pain that was in there-
00:46:04 That you were carrying.
00:46:05 It was like a million pounds lifted off my chest.
00:46:10 And that moment, I just said, "No matter what in life happens, I have to choose to
00:46:15 take care of my inner child and take care of myself."
00:46:19 And that's what I promised my mom when I wrote her that letter, when I went and sat with
00:46:23 her at her gravesite.
00:46:25 And I just remember walking away from it, and I looked at my phone, and I said, "I
00:46:32 did it for us, man.
00:46:33 I did it for us, Lil' J."
00:46:36 And that was all I needed for me, because that moment for me, my life has just been
00:46:44 clear ever since.
00:46:45 And I always put everybody else first.
00:46:47 Me too.
00:46:48 And I never put myself first.
00:46:49 Never.
00:46:50 I know.
00:46:51 And I've tried to love everyone that's came in my life, everyone, the best way I could.
00:46:56 Not to say that I know what love is, or I know what these things are, but the best way
00:47:00 I know how.
00:47:01 And I always got the short end of the stick.
00:47:05 And for this one time, in this one place, I chose myself.
00:47:09 Our world, our people, they need to hear this shit.
00:47:12 Absolutely.
00:47:13 They need to know that you don't have to be stuck in this place that is trauma and
00:47:21 is pain.
00:47:22 No.
00:47:23 All these things want us to be stuck in.
00:47:24 We're supposed to be living joy.
00:47:25 Living joy.
00:47:26 Joyful lives.
00:47:27 Women are supposed to just be able to be feminine and soft, still be in your power, still be
00:47:33 successful, still be mothers, professionals, famous, whatever it is.
00:47:38 We can be all of the things, right?
00:47:40 And men should be able to be loving, and not feel like they're going to get emasculated
00:47:46 or these things.
00:47:48 And I just feel like if everybody took the time to look inward and to work on themselves-
00:47:56 In an honest way.
00:47:58 You have to be honest.
00:47:59 And I just feel like if we can do that as a people, we'll be in a better space.
00:48:03 And I think for me, it's risking a lot because anybody that would have been in my position
00:48:11 that would have been thinking for self, and I think it's success.
00:48:15 There's no way they would have.
00:48:16 I think it's success when you accomplish what I've accomplished.
00:48:19 That's success.
00:48:20 Yeah, yeah.
00:48:21 Success is for yourself.
00:48:24 Significance is what is about others.
00:48:27 And I'm in a significant space right now.
00:48:29 I don't know that I've ever had a conversation like this with any man.
00:48:34 Oh, wow.
00:48:35 So for you to say the words, but still have this very masculine presence is kind of nice
00:48:43 because it goes against what I think women will be like, "He's soft.
00:48:48 I don't want..."
00:48:49 Because there are women out there that don't want that.
00:48:52 1000%.
00:48:53 I don't understand that.
00:48:54 I think you want the balance, right?
00:48:55 I think women want leadership.
00:48:57 They want to feel protected.
00:48:58 Do they?
00:48:59 Well, leadership.
00:49:00 Well, it depends on the woman.
00:49:02 Right, yes.
00:49:03 Depends on the woman, right?
00:49:04 Right.
00:49:05 And it depends on where you're leading me because if you're leading me someplace where
00:49:08 I don't want to go, then no.
00:49:10 Right.
00:49:11 We're not doing that.
00:49:12 Right.
00:49:13 But if I trust you...
00:49:14 Where does the trust come into play?
00:49:18 Well, you got to know each other.
00:49:20 You got to be...
00:49:21 And to know each other, you have to be transparent.
00:49:25 Absolutely.
00:49:26 Open book.
00:49:28 Are you able to forgive?
00:49:32 I started with myself, my mother, some people in my family that some foul things happened.
00:49:42 As family, those things should happen, but I don't know how you forgive somebody who
00:49:48 had a malicious intent.
00:49:51 So in that moment where you are trying to really work through your own trauma, is it
00:49:58 safe to say that it's healthy to say, "That person is where they are.
00:50:03 I need to leave them there and forgive them exactly where they are and still love them
00:50:07 where they are."
00:50:08 Well, I can say this.
00:50:09 I've been through some shit.
00:50:10 You know what I'm saying?
00:50:11 I'm not laughing.
00:50:12 I'm just like, "But the way you said that."
00:50:13 You definitely laughing.
00:50:14 No, I'm definitely laughing because of the way you said it.
00:50:15 You definitely laughing at me right now.
00:50:16 See what I'm saying?
00:50:17 This is why we can't open up.
00:50:18 This is why I can't open up.
00:50:19 This is why I shouldn't say shit.
00:50:20 I'm laughing because of your face when you said it.
00:50:21 When you said it, I was like, "Oh, my God.
00:50:22 I'm not laughing."
00:50:23 I'm laughing because of your face.
00:50:24 I'm laughing because of your face when you said it.
00:50:28 I was like, "I want to know what you're ..."
00:50:30 I've been through some shit, and I've been through some shit with people I really love.
00:50:33 What's the worst thing someone's ever done to you?
00:50:36 I mean, left me in my lowest.
00:50:37 I thought I took care of them the whole time.
00:50:39 You know, crossing me out.
00:50:41 I mean, tried to line me up, you know, get me knocked off.
00:50:45 That's hardcore.
00:50:46 Took from me, stole from me, betrayed me.
00:50:50 But you done let all that go, have you?
00:50:52 This is the thing I had to learn, and this is the part where it get a little tricky.
00:50:58 Most time when people do something to hurt you, it's out of fear.
00:51:01 Of course.
00:51:02 Right.
00:51:03 But I didn't understand that at first.
00:51:04 I thought this was personal.
00:51:05 Yeah.
00:51:06 Right?
00:51:07 Well, that's because we black people are raised that way.
00:51:09 Right.
00:51:10 That's kind of part of our culture.
00:51:11 You think it's personal.
00:51:12 You're trying to hurt me, so I got to ...
00:51:13 I got to hurt you back or hurt you first.
00:51:15 There's that.
00:51:16 I think when I started to realize that it was out of fear, that softened the blow.
00:51:24 Like, "God damn, them niggas did get dirty, man."
00:51:27 They did?
00:51:28 Yeah, just like, "I don't understand it."
00:51:30 That's good that you have that still in you, because to me, that's a part of who you are.
00:51:38 You got to always keep teeth.
00:51:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:40 Grit.
00:51:41 You got to always keep teeth.
00:51:42 The thing that I had to come to grips with is that no matter how dirty I feel like they've
00:51:52 done me, they probably never thought about that another day in their life.
00:51:55 It probably didn't even matter to them.
00:51:57 It was business as usual.
00:51:59 And the thing that I've been living with is the fact that every day, which has probably
00:52:04 been for the last decade-
00:52:06 You think about it.
00:52:07 I think about it, and I'm the one that's being affected by it.
00:52:12 You're hurting.
00:52:13 I'm the one that's hurting.
00:52:14 So to me, that seems like the last thing that you need to reconcile.
00:52:16 Yeah, that's the last piece.
00:52:19 So we've talked about all of these things, all of these themes, all of these moments
00:52:23 in your life, some moments in my own life, where you have made a conscious decision to
00:52:32 move forward and to choose yourself.
00:52:35 Right.
00:52:37 But what we haven't talked about is your current marriage and your current situation.
00:52:42 And I think it would be unfair to you to not address that in this space where we're being
00:52:50 really open and honest.
00:52:52 It doesn't have to be the details of anything, but if you've done all of this work and you've
00:52:59 given yourself that grace and you've given yourself that space to grow, and you've given
00:53:06 yourself permission to love self, then what happens when a man gets to the point where
00:53:14 they're just like, "Okay, I'm filing for divorce"?
00:53:18 Integrity intact, I could never say anything that would not honor somebody.
00:53:24 Absolutely.
00:53:25 But I can tell you that this has not been an easy journey.
00:53:32 I can tell you that I'm saddened, I can tell you that I'm disappointed, I can tell you
00:53:39 that I'm uneasy.
00:53:43 But again, God has put me in a different path, and that path is going to entail for me to
00:53:52 take care of myself and to love myself and to be in the best situation that I can thrive
00:54:00 as someone who've been through all the things that I've been through.
00:54:03 It's kind of something you can't explain.
00:54:05 Yeah, you can't.
00:54:06 The real thing is I don't like to fail in anything.
00:54:11 Me either.
00:54:12 I don't want to lose, I don't want to fail.
00:54:14 I don't want to fail, especially when I know what-
00:54:17 You've poured in.
00:54:18 Right.
00:54:19 And as I said across from you, I can only be responsible for myself.
00:54:24 True.
00:54:26 And I can only do what I can do.
00:54:30 Right.
00:54:31 And I can't expect someone else to do what I'm doing.
00:54:37 But did you go to therapy with her?
00:54:39 Yeah.
00:54:40 Okay, that's good.
00:54:42 So you actually addressed it, tried to work through it, tried to do the work, and it just
00:54:48 was not happening.
00:54:50 It's not.
00:54:52 Well then, shit, you tried.
00:54:54 I don't know about for you, but for me, it is a switch.
00:54:57 Right.
00:54:58 And when that switch goes off-
00:54:59 Is that what you, that was your switch?
00:55:02 Go on.
00:55:03 Yeah.
00:55:04 But-
00:55:05 But you know, I had to realize for myself that anything that happened in the last, what
00:55:11 was it, year and a half of my life, that shouldn't have nothing to do with me.
00:55:15 And that's my point of case.
00:55:16 That didn't have anything to do with me.
00:55:18 I was not embarrassed.
00:55:20 I was not, I was...
00:55:23 The way that black people stood up for me and the way that black women were like, "Oh
00:55:29 no, you don't do that to her."
00:55:31 I was shocked because I didn't realize that what I had done or what I've done in my career
00:55:38 had so much impact.
00:55:39 You didn't realize that?
00:55:40 No, not at all.
00:55:42 And I'm not even being funny.
00:55:43 You're America's sweetheart.
00:55:44 It's crazy.
00:55:45 Well, shit.
00:55:46 It's like, "The hell?
00:55:47 You don't know that?"
00:55:48 I don't.
00:55:49 I do not.
00:55:52 I don't regard myself in that way because it's always really about the work for me.
00:55:58 Well, I'm going to say this.
00:56:00 I feel like I'm sitting across from you, which is why I wanted to have this conversation
00:56:07 with you because I want to personally tell you that you embody what a well-minded, grown
00:56:16 ass black woman is supposed to be like.
00:56:21 And we stand with you always.
00:56:22 And the reason why I wanted to talk to you because you are my sister and this is a safe
00:56:28 space for me to say what I need to say because at times when we're at our lowest, we need
00:56:34 our sisters just like you guys need your brothers.
00:56:37 And that's why this conversation was so real because I hope and I pray that this conversation
00:56:47 can open up different conversations in our culture about being there for each other and
00:56:51 not being at odds with each other no matter what we've been through.
00:56:56 And I got to give you a flowers.
00:57:00 You've done an amazing job and maintain your integrity throughout your career, right?
00:57:09 As a person, as a human being.
00:57:11 And it meant the world to me to sit across from you and just to tell you my story.
00:57:15 As a man, I just hope that women, our women, black women in particular, can see this and
00:57:23 give us a safe space.
00:57:25 Especially women all the way across the board because we as men, we're hurt to be vulnerable
00:57:30 to tell your partner that right now I'm in a bad space.
00:57:36 We're going through it out here every day.
00:57:38 You wouldn't even imagine, right?
00:57:40 And there's no safe place for us to land.
00:57:42 There's no safe place for us to have these conversations we can't have with our homies.
00:57:45 We can't have with our brothers and our partners because it doesn't resonate.
00:57:49 Doesn't translate because they don't have life experience.
00:57:51 And they don't have that empathy there.
00:57:54 They don't have that nurturing thing.
00:57:59 And this is like for me, it's real because when you buried as many people as I have,
00:58:07 right?
00:58:08 Or seeing people go to prison for long periods of time or just seeing people fall to the
00:58:12 wayside, they're all missing a certain element.
00:58:17 And that element is to be able to have a safe space, the process.
00:58:21 Because when you're in pain and you're in odds, and I've been in pain most of my career,
00:58:25 like I've been the angry black man for sure.
00:58:27 Really?
00:58:28 Yeah, because I was just mad at the world because I'm like, why do I have to keep fighting
00:58:32 these battles?
00:58:33 Not that I'm not a fighter, right?
00:58:34 No, we all are.
00:58:36 You don't want to have to fight through it.
00:58:37 It should be a joyful experience.
00:58:39 And if you do, you want to be at least process with that with somebody who feels your pain
00:58:44 and understands where you're coming from.
00:58:46 And part of it can give you some insight of what they think, but it's safe.
00:58:50 And I feel like there's no safe spaces for us.
00:58:54 And to answer your question, I'm going to take your homework.
00:58:57 I'm going to go home.
00:58:58 Did I give you homework?
00:58:59 Yeah, because I hear what you go on with this.
00:59:02 I'm going to write my list of people that I should forgive.
00:59:06 Yeah.
00:59:07 And I'm going to forgive them because my sister told me that it's okay to do so.
00:59:11 That's right.
00:59:12 I hope they don't think I'm soft, but I'm Duke Nickleman.
00:59:13 You were not soft.
00:59:14 No, you got to, because otherwise we're carrying...
00:59:16 Listen, I need to write the list.
00:59:18 Before we write our list, why don't you write your list and I'll write mine.
00:59:20 Listen, I want to see whose list is longer because I got some shit on my list.
00:59:24 I don't know about yours.
00:59:26 I want to thank you for your time.
00:59:27 I want to thank you for your energy.
00:59:29 I want to thank you for your realness.
00:59:32 And I hope you understand how many lives this is going to affect and change because I promise
00:59:38 you a lot of the anger and resentment and the dumb shit that men do is coming from a
00:59:44 place of not being able to be seen or heard.
00:59:46 Right?
00:59:47 And I can only imagine what it's like on the woman's side, but I hope that this will open
00:59:53 up just that dialogue of being able to talk to each other.
00:59:58 And like you said, being on the same team rather than fighting each other, because I'm
01:00:02 going through a real hard moment in my life.
01:00:06 I feel that something that I would have gave my life for it to work.
01:00:11 The last question that I have is we have established that everything starts with love, but I don't
01:00:22 think we can grow into that real deep love and acceptance that this whole conversation
01:00:27 has been about without forgiveness.
01:00:31 So what do you do when you know you have to forgive someone?
01:00:37 For me, I'll tell you what I do.
01:00:39 When I know that I have to forgive someone, when I'm in my bed quietly meditating, I literally
01:00:47 send them love vibrations.
01:00:49 I literally send them like visualize the person's face and I send them love vibrations because
01:00:56 by me releasing love towards them, I no longer have to be connected to the negative feeling
01:01:06 of being hurt and disappointed.
01:01:09 I have actually sliced that, chopped that down.
01:01:12 You don't have access to me.
01:01:15 There may never be another conversation, but energetically I know that I can send love
01:01:20 to someone and it actually helps my healing.
01:01:23 Now whether they receive it or not, I don't really care.
01:01:26 It's more for me.
01:01:28 And sometimes we don't need an explanation from the other person as to why it's so important
01:01:36 to forgive, but I promise you, you could do all this work that you're doing right now.
01:01:43 We could do all these, have these conversations.
01:01:47 If you are not able to forgive, you will hit the wall again.
01:01:51 I'm going to say this, and I received that.
01:01:58 I don't know if I'm sending anybody love vibrations in my bed, but what I will promise you, I
01:02:05 will write my list.
01:02:06 That was funny.
01:02:07 See, this is why I was saying this.
01:02:08 No, because I was honest.
01:02:09 You're like, "No, I'm not sending no love vibrations because it ain't feeling like that
01:02:18 right now."
01:02:19 So what I'm going to do is I'm going to write my list and I'm going to forgive, but I'm
01:02:24 not going to forget.
01:02:27 But see, I'm looking in your eyes and I'm not really buying that.
01:02:30 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:02:35 That's halfway, right?
01:02:36 That's halfway.
01:02:37 Okay.
01:02:37 I'm going to write my list.
01:02:38 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:02:38 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:02:45 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:02:52 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:02:59 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:03:06 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:03:13 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:03:20 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:03:28 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:03:35 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:03:43 I'm going to forgive, but I'm not going to forget.
01:03:46 (upbeat music)